You made this argument before and I still think it's silly.
You can't work towards a skin, you can just luck into it faster based on currency/raw drops.
You can still buy a skin. Just not as cheaply as a coffee down the road.
The fact that so man people want it kind of negates that. You can't just get "that cool skin" instantly.
You either need luck, or you wait for enough ingame currency to get it.
Both is not something you can just get.
I mean you can also spend €€€ on loot boxes, but that also does not mean you get it easily.
So to me a skin means at least something.
Other than raw skills, there's little to compare yourself to others in this game. So why the hell not? How would you rather monetize the game down the road?
Don't forget that people just buying skins means a) less money and b) fewer people trying new classes
Especially in the face of the largest free to play systems relying on simple purchase first and having gambling mechanics as a secondary aspect. Heck league of legends (which I suppose it's worth pointing out I've put way more money into than I ever will overwatche's) didn't even have boxes till a few months ago and still managed to take in cash with its cosmetics.
I've gotten Ifrit Zenyatta, Hayseed Junkrat, Lone Wolf Hanzo, and Gambler McCree skins from boxes and bought Valkyrie Mercy @ lv 41.
I may have gotten lucky but it really doesn't feel that unreasonable to be getting a super awesome skin every 10 levels or so and a nice recolor every few boxes.
I really don't understand the indignation on monetizing a game.
I think the entire schtick of that channel is to be indignant about things so, it fits.
He's positive about stuff a bunch of the time. Jimquisition in particular tends to be focused on the negative though.
His general argument is that if you've paid $60 for a game then requesting further cash for the games content is unacceptable in any capacity.
I think it's a bit of a hard stance because I think some games have done what he calls 'fee to play' are perfectly fine (see Mass Effect 3) but I don't think 'please just let me pay for the game' is a super indignant stance. Especially when the game involves gambling to get it.
Meh, I only paid $40 for the game, and I can get everything cosmetic in the game by just playing it.
The loot boxes are incredibly lame anyway so who cares.
Theoretically yes, realistically no
someone mathed it out and it would be around 1600 hours of play
I thought it was way worse than that. I don't think 1600 is unrealistic. I have around 7 or 8 friends on steam at least that much, if not much more than that in csgo.
by the time anyone reaches 1600 hours played they're going to have released a bunch more shit to find, boosting the number accordingly
I mean, at my current rate of video game consumption which is currently ~2100 hrs/yr of whatever main game I'm playing it would have to be more often than every .76 years, which I guess is 9 months, assuming it actually was the main game I was playing.
So I'd have to say that's pretty fair to the biggest enthusiasts of their game.
A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
I really don't understand the indignation on monetizing a game.
I think the entire schtick of that channel is to be indignant about things so, it fits.
He's positive about stuff a bunch of the time. Jimquisition in particular tends to be focused on the negative though.
His general argument is that if you've paid $60 for a game then requesting further cash for the games content is unacceptable in any capacity.
I think it's a bit of a hard stance because I think some games have done what he calls 'fee to play' are perfectly fine (see Mass Effect 3) but I don't think 'please just let me pay for the game' is a super indignant stance. Especially when the game involves gambling to get it.
Meh, I only paid $40 for the game, and I can get everything cosmetic in the game by just playing it.
The loot boxes are incredibly lame anyway so who cares.
Theoretically yes, realistically no
someone mathed it out and it would be around 1600 hours of play
I thought it was way worse than that. I don't think 1600 is unrealistic. I have around 7 or 8 friends on steam at least that much, if not much more than that in csgo.
and to each their own but I 100% see that as unrealistic
1200 hours is 50 actual days
Something seems off about the math in that article - I'm level 61 with 55 hours and 438 games played, which is on track with his estimation of 738 games and 135 hours to reach 100 levels / boxes.
But level 61 with 55 hours is about 1.1 levels / hour, and one box gives 4 items. That means I should be getting 4.4 items / hour and reach 1,134 items (the current total number of cosmetic items in the game) in 257 hours.
Obviously I'm not accounting for rarity levels and duplicates, but would those really inflate the expected playtime by four times as much?
I definitely prefer microtransactions as a way to finance post-release support over paying for maps/characters though the gambling aspect is pretty nakedly exploitative
I think one big, glaring issue, and I'm not saying Blizzard will fall prey to this because all evidence says that Blizzard would continue supporting Overwatch even if there were no microtransactions,
but microtransactions do not guarantee post-release support
See: Destiny, for like a solid month people were jazzed at the idea that new content would be funded by people buying dumb dances
Turns out the only thing it funded was more dumb dances to sell you
I really don't understand the indignation on monetizing a game.
I think the entire schtick of that channel is to be indignant about things so, it fits.
He's positive about stuff a bunch of the time. Jimquisition in particular tends to be focused on the negative though.
His general argument is that if you've paid $60 for a game then requesting further cash for the games content is unacceptable in any capacity.
I think it's a bit of a hard stance because I think some games have done what he calls 'fee to play' are perfectly fine (see Mass Effect 3) but I don't think 'please just let me pay for the game' is a super indignant stance. Especially when the game involves gambling to get it.
Meh, I only paid $40 for the game, and I can get everything cosmetic in the game by just playing it.
The loot boxes are incredibly lame anyway so who cares.
Theoretically yes, realistically no
someone mathed it out and it would be around 1600 hours of play
I thought it was way worse than that. I don't think 1600 is unrealistic. I have around 7 or 8 friends on steam at least that much, if not much more than that in csgo.
and to each their own but I 100% see that as unrealistic
1200 hours is 50 actual days
Something seems off about the math in that article - I'm level 61 with 55 hours and 438 games played, which is on track with his estimation of 738 games and 135 hours to reach 100 levels / boxes.
But level 61 with 55 hours is about 1.1 levels / hour, and one box gives 4 items. That means I should be getting 4.4 items / hour and reach 1,134 items (the current total number of cosmetic items in the game) in 257 hours.
Obviously I'm not accounting for rarity levels and duplicates, but would those really inflate the expected playtime by four times as much?
duplicates giving 20% of their value in currency is where the extra time comes from
and the more things you get the more likely you are to get duplicates in the future until when you have nearly everything, nearly ever drop will be a duplicate
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Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
You made this argument before and I still think it's silly.
You can't work towards a skin, you can just luck into it faster based on currency/raw drops.
You can still buy a skin. Just not as cheaply as a coffee down the road.
The fact that so man people want it kind of negates that. You can't just get "that cool skin" instantly.
You either need luck, or you wait for enough ingame currency to get it.
Both is not something you can just get.
I mean you can also spend €€€ on loot boxes, but that also does not mean you get it easily.
So to me a skin means at least something.
Other than raw skills, there's little to compare yourself to others in this game. So why the hell not? How would you rather monetize the game down the road?
Don't forget that people just buying skins means a) less money and b) fewer people trying new classes
I would find this argument more compelling, not that I would necessarily agree with it but I would find it more compelling, if there were a direct progression system to obtain skins, or if you got them for achievements, or if you got in game currency directly for winning games and not just at a completely random rate, but as it stands your argument just doesn't stand up in my opinion because when I see someone with a cool skin I don't think "they worked for it" I think "they randomly lucked into that particular skin". There is no comparison of achievement or effort, because it is 100% random. Anyone can get any skin for barely any effort. There's no comparison to be made. My 250 point D.Va skin represents way more effort than the Contessa Widowmaker skin I randomed and don't use much because I'm a bad sniper, but there's literally no way for anyone to tell. When someone sidles up to me with McCree's gambler skin I don't think "look at the effort he put in" I don't compare his achievement to mine, I just think "I wonder if I'll randomly roll that skin next time I level up." And not as a "man he looks so cool, he sure put in effort, I will to" but a "I could get this after 5 minutes of gameplay, or 5 hours. Or 50 hours." Because there is exactly 0 correlation between the amount of effort someone puts in, and what skins they have. There's as little correlation if that guy had just paid for it upfront.
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
If a skins is as easy to get as a coffee down the road, it means just as much. Nothing.
If you have to invest time to get it, it means the player did something for it, not just pay to look cool.
To me, that's worth more. So if I see someone playing well on a character with a cool skin, I think "awesome!"
Otherwise, you have level 1s buying the cool skins because they lack impulse control and the coolness factor of the skin instantly plummets into nothingness.
Not to single you out, but this is kind of why I finally quit WoW for good.
For years and years, the super hardcore people complained that their high end items were worth less because regular players could eventually get something similar/the same thing.
And then in the most recent expansion they finally caved to those people and made it so the only raiding I had time for, Raid Finder, gave out shitty recolored quest items.
I got a pretty amusing play of the game yesterday but forgot to save a clip of it. Is there a way to recover that? I haven't looked in the menus yet.
Here's what happened. We're on Lijiang Tower. I'm Reinhardt. I'm outside of the point and I ult two enemies. I charge one to push him off the edge but it's become clear that I am going to overshoot. As I'm flying by an enemy Mei starts to freeze me. I freeze solid RIGHT at the edge of the cliff, Roadhog goes soaring off, I break free and smack Mei and another enemy to death immediately.
If a skins is as easy to get as a coffee down the road, it means just as much. Nothing.
If you have to invest time to get it, it means the player did something for it, not just pay to look cool.
To me, that's worth more. So if I see someone playing well on a character with a cool skin, I think "awesome!"
Otherwise, you have level 1s buying the cool skins because they lack impulse control and the coolness factor of the skin instantly plummets into nothingness.
Not to single you out, but this is kind of why I finally quit WoW for good.
For years and years, the super hardcore people complained that their high end items were worth less because regular players could eventually get something similar/the same thing.
And then in the most recent expansion they finally caved to those people and made it so the only raiding I had time for, Raid Finder, gave out shitty recolored quest items.
So I quit.
I'm sympathetic to this argument but I don't think it represents what the super hardcore people originally wanted. In Vanilla wow it was fine that people eventually caught up because there was always new content, and when the next raid came out they could adjust the prior one downward, which was fine because why shouldn't you get a boost on gear to get to the current content? You shouldn't have an advantage in BWL only because you were first to clear MC.
The problem was that they started doing the reverse, where you hit a wall; the first time was in AQ40, where the boss was more or less explicitly impossible. You could get 2 or 3 perfect phase 2 burns on c'thun and he'd be at 85%, but the math just doesn't work out to sustain that phase indefinitely. Then when enough guilds hit the wall they'd nerf the encounter and everyone would finish it at once. They didn't do that with Naxx, which was great, but then that problem popped up a few times and most people like me in that scene noped out.
So who is left? People who care more about having trophies than getting them.
A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
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KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
Got a tire penta on point B of the giant robot factory map
Only 3 of us were there but I was sure we'd get it
turns out the last person alive on their team was a reaper with his ult up, the next 4 minutes of losing were agony
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KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
Especially in the face of the largest free to play systems relying on simple purchase first and having gambling mechanics as a secondary aspect. Heck league of legends (which I suppose it's worth pointing out I've put way more money into than I ever will overwatche's) didn't even have boxes till a few months ago and still managed to take in cash with its cosmetics.
aren't ultimate skins in league $30 or something
I would gladly take free random boxes when you level over that bullshit
Especially in the face of the largest free to play systems relying on simple purchase first and having gambling mechanics as a secondary aspect. Heck league of legends (which I suppose it's worth pointing out I've put way more money into than I ever will overwatche's) didn't even have boxes till a few months ago and still managed to take in cash with its cosmetics.
aren't ultimate skins in league $30 or something
I would gladly take free random boxes when you level over that bullshit
I don't think you get how shiny those skins are
they're really really shiny
besides, they're not forcing you to get them, there are much cheaper alternatives
Especially in the face of the largest free to play systems relying on simple purchase first and having gambling mechanics as a secondary aspect. Heck league of legends (which I suppose it's worth pointing out I've put way more money into than I ever will overwatche's) didn't even have boxes till a few months ago and still managed to take in cash with its cosmetics.
aren't ultimate skins in league $30 or something
I would gladly take free random boxes when you level over that bullshit
I don't think you get how shiny those skins are
they're really really shiny
besides, they're not forcing you to get them, there are much cheaper alternatives
Nobody's forcing people to buy loot boxes either, tbf.
I ate an engineer
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Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
would you pay $30 for a legendary skin of your choice in overwatch?
I wouldn't, but would be hype to get it from a box
Especially in the face of the largest free to play systems relying on simple purchase first and having gambling mechanics as a secondary aspect. Heck league of legends (which I suppose it's worth pointing out I've put way more money into than I ever will overwatche's) didn't even have boxes till a few months ago and still managed to take in cash with its cosmetics.
aren't ultimate skins in league $30 or something
I would gladly take free random boxes when you level over that bullshit
it feels more acceptable to me in that case since the game itself is free
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Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
well the game is free, but all the characters in it aren't
the loot boxes seem extremely mild to me in terms of long term monetization in games
and I'd prefer to pay once to get all the gameplay content than have to continually unlock it
Especially in the face of the largest free to play systems relying on simple purchase first and having gambling mechanics as a secondary aspect. Heck league of legends (which I suppose it's worth pointing out I've put way more money into than I ever will overwatche's) didn't even have boxes till a few months ago and still managed to take in cash with its cosmetics.
aren't ultimate skins in league $30 or something
I would gladly take free random boxes when you level over that bullshit
it feels more acceptable to me in that case since the game itself is free
What if it were guaranteed that the amount of skins you got in the first 100 hours of play (or any other number you prefer) were roughly of the same quality as the skins you got from dropping $60 on LoL?
A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
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The fact that so man people want it kind of negates that. You can't just get "that cool skin" instantly.
You either need luck, or you wait for enough ingame currency to get it.
Both is not something you can just get.
I mean you can also spend €€€ on loot boxes, but that also does not mean you get it easily.
So to me a skin means at least something.
Other than raw skills, there's little to compare yourself to others in this game. So why the hell not? How would you rather monetize the game down the road?
Don't forget that people just buying skins means a) less money and b) fewer people trying new classes
i want skins for me
Especially in the face of the largest free to play systems relying on simple purchase first and having gambling mechanics as a secondary aspect. Heck league of legends (which I suppose it's worth pointing out I've put way more money into than I ever will overwatche's) didn't even have boxes till a few months ago and still managed to take in cash with its cosmetics.
I may have gotten lucky but it really doesn't feel that unreasonable to be getting a super awesome skin every 10 levels or so and a nice recolor every few boxes.
Why didn't I have this the day before, on my birthday
Oh well, I spent all day spamming it and was happy
No I was trying to commiserate about bad skin luck
Sorry.
I mean, at my current rate of video game consumption which is currently ~2100 hrs/yr of whatever main game I'm playing it would have to be more often than every .76 years, which I guess is 9 months, assuming it actually was the main game I was playing.
So I'd have to say that's pretty fair to the biggest enthusiasts of their game.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
That Kotaku article says $600 to $700
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Because after a certain point, you were getting a new box after every single game you played
The rate of acquisition was WAY higher than it is in Overwatch, and that's the only real problem I have with the system as designed
Random boxes I can handle, especially when it's just cosmetic stuff, but I need to be getting them faster for me not to feel a bit burdened by it
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
Something seems off about the math in that article - I'm level 61 with 55 hours and 438 games played, which is on track with his estimation of 738 games and 135 hours to reach 100 levels / boxes.
But level 61 with 55 hours is about 1.1 levels / hour, and one box gives 4 items. That means I should be getting 4.4 items / hour and reach 1,134 items (the current total number of cosmetic items in the game) in 257 hours.
Obviously I'm not accounting for rarity levels and duplicates, but would those really inflate the expected playtime by four times as much?
My Steam
I think one big, glaring issue, and I'm not saying Blizzard will fall prey to this because all evidence says that Blizzard would continue supporting Overwatch even if there were no microtransactions,
but microtransactions do not guarantee post-release support
See: Destiny, for like a solid month people were jazzed at the idea that new content would be funded by people buying dumb dances
Turns out the only thing it funded was more dumb dances to sell you
okay so that's 97 hours of work at minimum wage, compared to 1600 hours of play
duplicates giving 20% of their value in currency is where the extra time comes from
and the more things you get the more likely you are to get duplicates in the future until when you have nearly everything, nearly ever drop will be a duplicate
I would find this argument more compelling, not that I would necessarily agree with it but I would find it more compelling, if there were a direct progression system to obtain skins, or if you got them for achievements, or if you got in game currency directly for winning games and not just at a completely random rate, but as it stands your argument just doesn't stand up in my opinion because when I see someone with a cool skin I don't think "they worked for it" I think "they randomly lucked into that particular skin". There is no comparison of achievement or effort, because it is 100% random. Anyone can get any skin for barely any effort. There's no comparison to be made. My 250 point D.Va skin represents way more effort than the Contessa Widowmaker skin I randomed and don't use much because I'm a bad sniper, but there's literally no way for anyone to tell. When someone sidles up to me with McCree's gambler skin I don't think "look at the effort he put in" I don't compare his achievement to mine, I just think "I wonder if I'll randomly roll that skin next time I level up." And not as a "man he looks so cool, he sure put in effort, I will to" but a "I could get this after 5 minutes of gameplay, or 5 hours. Or 50 hours." Because there is exactly 0 correlation between the amount of effort someone puts in, and what skins they have. There's as little correlation if that guy had just paid for it upfront.
Not to single you out, but this is kind of why I finally quit WoW for good.
For years and years, the super hardcore people complained that their high end items were worth less because regular players could eventually get something similar/the same thing.
And then in the most recent expansion they finally caved to those people and made it so the only raiding I had time for, Raid Finder, gave out shitty recolored quest items.
So I quit.
Here's what happened. We're on Lijiang Tower. I'm Reinhardt. I'm outside of the point and I ult two enemies. I charge one to push him off the edge but it's become clear that I am going to overshoot. As I'm flying by an enemy Mei starts to freeze me. I freeze solid RIGHT at the edge of the cliff, Roadhog goes soaring off, I break free and smack Mei and another enemy to death immediately.
I'm sympathetic to this argument but I don't think it represents what the super hardcore people originally wanted. In Vanilla wow it was fine that people eventually caught up because there was always new content, and when the next raid came out they could adjust the prior one downward, which was fine because why shouldn't you get a boost on gear to get to the current content? You shouldn't have an advantage in BWL only because you were first to clear MC.
The problem was that they started doing the reverse, where you hit a wall; the first time was in AQ40, where the boss was more or less explicitly impossible. You could get 2 or 3 perfect phase 2 burns on c'thun and he'd be at 85%, but the math just doesn't work out to sustain that phase indefinitely. Then when enough guilds hit the wall they'd nerf the encounter and everyone would finish it at once. They didn't do that with Naxx, which was great, but then that problem popped up a few times and most people like me in that scene noped out.
So who is left? People who care more about having trophies than getting them.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
Only 3 of us were there but I was sure we'd get it
turns out the last person alive on their team was a reaper with his ult up, the next 4 minutes of losing were agony
I wish blizzard would copy the way steam lets you set yourself as offline without having to actually be offline
Blizzard was kind of the one that did away with that whole thing and it's always pissed me off.
I miss being able to get on an MMO and go anonymous and just grind away in peace every now and then.
I am so thankful PS4 finally has an "appear offline" option
I would gladly take free random boxes when you level over that bullshit
I don't think you get how shiny those skins are
they're really really shiny
besides, they're not forcing you to get them, there are much cheaper alternatives
Nobody's forcing people to buy loot boxes either, tbf.
I wouldn't, but would be hype to get it from a box
it feels more acceptable to me in that case since the game itself is free
the loot boxes seem extremely mild to me in terms of long term monetization in games
and I'd prefer to pay once to get all the gameplay content than have to continually unlock it
What if it were guaranteed that the amount of skins you got in the first 100 hours of play (or any other number you prefer) were roughly of the same quality as the skins you got from dropping $60 on LoL?
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
Yeah that's what I was told. Then I promptly forgot about it.