I'm going to give Target a pass because apparently they're losing money over the bathroom stuff and there's been pressure on the CEO to reconsider but he hasn't caved yet.
Not going to begrudge a company that is actually putting something on the line for their principles.
EDIT: Maybe I should just praise that specific dude instead of the company as a whole
some of the pressure has come from threats of violence and at least one attempted bombing as a response to their policy
For the record, I totally get the feeling of not wanting straight people at our festival. I hated straight people for a good 10+ years in my 20's onward and I'm still not a huge fan of them but I cannot see the good in throwing the same hateful practice back at anyone.
This is the same as if the local Basilica Block Party posted rules that lgbt couples couldn't kiss or hold hands on while on the festival lot. If you wouldn't be ok with that I can't see how you could be ok with the reverse. I get that nothing bad has ever happened to cishet people on the same scale but that doesn't mean that it should.
Bomb threats... The lengths some people go to just to condemn another group of people, or put fear in them.
When I worked for the LGBT publication Xtra! in Toronto, we got a bomb threat. I was the only midnighter scheduled to work that night, and was told that there's an undercover police car parked just outside, visible from my area, that was there to watch for suspicious activity.
That really didn't make me feel better about working that evening.
I'm going to give Target a pass because apparently they're losing money over the bathroom stuff and there's been pressure on the CEO to reconsider but he hasn't caved yet.
Not going to begrudge a company that is actually putting something on the line for their principles.
EDIT: Maybe I should just praise that specific dude instead of the company as a whole
some of the pressure has come from threats of violence and at least one attempted bombing as a response to their policy
Pretty sure that "attempted bombing" was actually an "attempted drug lab" and had nothing to do with their bathroom policies.
I'm going to give Target a pass because apparently they're losing money over the bathroom stuff and there's been pressure on the CEO to reconsider but he hasn't caved yet.
Not going to begrudge a company that is actually putting something on the line for their principles.
EDIT: Maybe I should just praise that specific dude instead of the company as a whole
some of the pressure has come from threats of violence and at least one attempted bombing as a response to their policy
Pretty sure that "attempted bombing" was actually an "attempted drug lab" and had nothing to do with their bathroom policies.
ah when it first happened I saw people connecting it, I see that was not the case
A non-trivial amount of cis gay white men are starting to hook up with varying branches of the right wing. Mostly libertarian for obvious reasons, but it's very much a "Got Mine, Fuck You" sort of thing.
Immediately after Orlando, before it became clear how hard the right wing was going to ignore the homophobia that drove the shooting, and the identity of the people who died, the reaction that made me the angriest was when the Log Cabin Republicans came out with an incredibly right wing statement blaming Muslims for the attack, clumsily enough that it reads as if the only threat to LGBT people are foreigners and Muslims.
Compounding that was the Pink Pistols, an LGBT pro-gun group so unaware of the history of LGBT people that they honestly think that arming ourselves will keep us safe, releasing the normal, horrible bullshit statement about how guns don't kill people, people kilzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. As if there aren't uncountable instances of marginalized people of all stripes trying to defend themselves and being arrested and imprisoned for it.
Narbus on
+5
Options
Metzger MeisterIt Gets Worsebefore it gets any better.Registered Userregular
A non-trivial amount of cis gay white men are starting to hook up with varying branches of the right wing. Mostly libertarian for obvious reasons, but it's very much a "Got Mine, Fuck You" sort of thing.
Immediately after Orlando, before it became clear how hard the right wing was going to ignore the homophobia that drove the shooting, and the identity of the people who died, the reaction that made me the angriest was when the Log Cabin Republicans came out with an incredibly right wing statement blaming Muslims for the attack, clumsily enough that it reads as if the only threat to LGBT people are foreigners and Muslims.
Compounding that was the Pink Pistols, an LGBT pro-gun group so unaware of the history of LGBT people that they honestly think that arming ourselves will keep us safe. As if there aren't uncountable instances of marginalized people of all stripes trying to defend themselves and being arrested and imprisoned for it.
Arming minority groups has never turned out well, regardless of intent. Ask the Black Panthers how that went.
Be a good way to enact gun control laws though. Imagine how fast the right would flip their stance of a bunch of LGBT poc started open carrying.
Maybe we should have the bi people wear armbands or like a purple hexagon on their clothes when in lgbt spaces so if they are with the wrong partner that day there's no problem
What could possibly go wrong
+15
Options
Metzger MeisterIt Gets Worsebefore it gets any better.Registered Userregular
I think the big problem comes from why a lot of cis/straight people attend the pride parade. Not as a gesture of solidarity or being an ally, but basically with the mindset of "I'm gonna see some crazy bullshit today!" Like they're going to a fuckin sideshow or a zoo.
If they're there in good faith and as allies then they should be welcomed with open arms and big gay dance numbers and all that good stuff. If not, then they should fuck off and wait for St. Paddy's day if they want a parade for straight folk.
That's how I read it though, and I ain't exactly a well read or scholarly guy, so take it with some salt.
the incongruity that makes that joke work really well is the idea lgbt folk have that level of societal influence. to follow that thread, we'll get a charismatic leader. judith von hitler
A non-trivial amount of cis gay white men are starting to hook up with varying branches of the right wing. Mostly libertarian for obvious reasons, but it's very much a "Got Mine, Fuck You" sort of thing.
Immediately after Orlando, before it became clear how hard the right wing was going to ignore the homophobia that drove the shooting, and the identity of the people who died, the reaction that made me the angriest was when the Log Cabin Republicans came out with an incredibly right wing statement blaming Muslims for the attack, clumsily enough that it reads as if the only threat to LGBT people are foreigners and Muslims.
Compounding that was the Pink Pistols, an LGBT pro-gun group so unaware of the history of LGBT people that they honestly think that arming ourselves will keep us safe. As if there aren't uncountable instances of marginalized people of all stripes trying to defend themselves and being arrested and imprisoned for it.
Arming minority groups has never turned out well, regardless of intent. Ask the Black Panthers how that went.
Be a good way to enact gun control laws though. Imagine how fast the right would flip their stance of a bunch of LGBT poc started open carrying.
I think the big problem comes from why a lot of cis/straight people attend the pride parade. Not as a gesture of solidarity or being an ally, but basically with the mindset of "I'm gonna see some crazy bullshit today!" Like they're going to a fuckin sideshow or a zoo.
If they're there in good faith and as allies then they should be welcomed with open arms and big gay dance numbers and all that good stuff. If not, then they should fuck off and wait for St. Paddy's day if they want a parade for straight folk.
That's how I read it though, and I ain't exactly a well read or scholarly guy, so take it with some salt.
i think it depends on your city. i'm pretty lucky with mine but i really can't speak for anyone else's
For the record, I totally get the feeling of not wanting straight people at our festival. I hated straight people for a good 10+ years in my 20's onward and I'm still not a huge fan of them but I cannot see the good in throwing the same hateful practice back at anyone.
This is the same as if the local Basilica Block Party posted rules that lgbt couples couldn't kiss or hold hands on while on the festival lot. If you wouldn't be ok with that I can't see how you could be ok with the reverse. I get that nothing bad has ever happened to cishet people on the same scale but that doesn't mean that it should.
Do you truly think it's that absurd to have a discussion about maybe giving special attention to making sure that trans people and other especially marginalized groups feel comfortable at Pride events?
I don't just waltz into random bars or clubs or other social gatherings with the expectation of having a good time. Ever, at all, period. I do not feel safe socializing with an unfiltered segment of the general public. I do not feel confident that I will be treated with respect. I either find specific LGBT-focused social groups or events, or I stay home.
Talk all you want about the progress that has been made. The fact of the matter is that right now, today, I do not feel like I have a reliably safe place in mainstream society. Not just in terms of, like, dating in public, but in terms of walking down the street. Buying groceries. Taking a bus. (Christ, I can't even imagine taking public transportation alone; I'm so lucky to live in a place where I can have a car.) As long as that remains true, the less differentiated Pride becomes from mainstream society, the less likely I am to feel like I can safely and confidently be there, either. If you don't give a fuck then you don't give a fuck, but that's what this discussion is about. It's not about some spite-based campaign to get back at those evil cishet people.
Be a good way to enact gun control laws though. Imagine how fast the right would flip their stance of a bunch of LGBT poc started open carrying.
Do you think Democrats are actually filibustering and doing sit-ins for reasonable gun control? No, it's for people on the terrorism watchlist which is going to largely target PoC.
Republicans seem pretty excited about accepting gay people into the ranks these days. You just have to shut up except when they need you to tell other queer people to how good they actually have it.
Like lemme tell you how annoying it is to hear that moral majority Christians are actually the tolerant ones because they don't want to stone the gays...anymore.
A non-trivial amount of cis gay white men are starting to hook up with varying branches of the right wing. Mostly libertarian for obvious reasons, but it's very much a "Got Mine, Fuck You" sort of thing.
Immediately after Orlando, before it became clear how hard the right wing was going to ignore the homophobia that drove the shooting, and the identity of the people who died, the reaction that made me the angriest was when the Log Cabin Republicans came out with an incredibly right wing statement blaming Muslims for the attack, clumsily enough that it reads as if the only threat to LGBT people are foreigners and Muslims.
Compounding that was the Pink Pistols, an LGBT pro-gun group so unaware of the history of LGBT people that they honestly think that arming ourselves will keep us safe, releasing the normal, horrible bullshit statement about how guns don't kill people, people kilzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. As if there aren't uncountable instances of marginalized people of all stripes trying to defend themselves and being arrested and imprisoned for it.
Let's not pretend that politicians on the left have been making any effort to talk about homophobia in light of the shooting either. The political narrative is very much Islamophobia v. Gun Control and that's it.
For the record, I totally get the feeling of not wanting straight people at our festival. I hated straight people for a good 10+ years in my 20's onward and I'm still not a huge fan of them but I cannot see the good in throwing the same hateful practice back at anyone.
This is the same as if the local Basilica Block Party posted rules that lgbt couples couldn't kiss or hold hands on while on the festival lot. If you wouldn't be ok with that I can't see how you could be ok with the reverse. I get that nothing bad has ever happened to cishet people on the same scale but that doesn't mean that it should.
Do you truly think it's that absurd to have a discussion about maybe giving special attention to making sure that trans people and other especially marginalized groups feel comfortable at Pride events?
I don't just waltz into random bars or clubs or other social gatherings with the expectation of having a good time. Ever, at all, period. I do not feel safe socializing with an unfiltered segment of the general public. I do not feel confident that I will be treated with respect. I either find specific LGBT-focused social groups or events, or I stay home.
Talk all you want about the progress that has been made. The fact of the matter is that right now, today, I do not feel like I have a reliably safe place in mainstream society. Not just in terms of, like, dating in public, but in terms of walking down the street. Buying groceries. Taking a bus. (Christ, I can't even imagine taking public transportation alone; I'm so lucky to live in a place where I can have a car.) As long as that remains true, the less differentiated Pride becomes from mainstream society, the less likely I am to feel like I can safely and confidently be there, either. If you don't give a fuck then you don't give a fuck, but that's what this discussion is about. It's not about some spite-based campaign to get back at those evil cishet people.
Not at all. We desperately need to do better for the trans and bi sections of our community. But the solution proposed is not the one to go with. Like, at all. We're proposing making other people not feel comfortable at Pride. How is that possibly a good thing? How is pushing the same behavior we hate on others going to help anyone?
I don't feel comfortable anywhere in public either. Hell it was just last year that I actually held hands with a boyfriend in public and I STILL clench up when we do because I'm terrified of what might happen. I'm always scanning the crowd to make sure we aren't attracting unwanted attention. I imagine this is probably a very familiar feeling to anyone in this thread and I don't want anyone else to ever have to feel that way, no matter who they are or what they've done (with the exception of a few notable homophobes who desperately need to walk in some other shoes for a while).
do not criticize or speak about straight people, or else you are gay hitler. when you talk about straight people, you are also mean bi people by extension gay hitler?
I mean that literally anything you aim at straight people catches bisexuals in het relationships in the cross fire, and we have to deal with that shit 24/7 and maybe, just maybe, it'd be nice to not deal with it in the space where we shouldn't have to deal with it.
Gay people and trans people want a safe space where they can be visible. Cool.
For the record, I totally get the feeling of not wanting straight people at our festival. I hated straight people for a good 10+ years in my 20's onward and I'm still not a huge fan of them but I cannot see the good in throwing the same hateful practice back at anyone.
This is the same as if the local Basilica Block Party posted rules that lgbt couples couldn't kiss or hold hands on while on the festival lot. If you wouldn't be ok with that I can't see how you could be ok with the reverse. I get that nothing bad has ever happened to cishet people on the same scale but that doesn't mean that it should.
Do you truly think it's that absurd to have a discussion about maybe giving special attention to making sure that trans people and other especially marginalized groups feel comfortable at Pride events?
I don't just waltz into random bars or clubs or other social gatherings with the expectation of having a good time. Ever, at all, period. I do not feel safe socializing with an unfiltered segment of the general public. I do not feel confident that I will be treated with respect. I either find specific LGBT-focused social groups or events, or I stay home.
Talk all you want about the progress that has been made. The fact of the matter is that right now, today, I do not feel like I have a reliably safe place in mainstream society. Not just in terms of, like, dating in public, but in terms of walking down the street. Buying groceries. Taking a bus. (Christ, I can't even imagine taking public transportation alone; I'm so lucky to live in a place where I can have a car.) As long as that remains true, the less differentiated Pride becomes from mainstream society, the less likely I am to feel like I can safely and confidently be there, either. If you don't give a fuck then you don't give a fuck, but that's what this discussion is about. It's not about some spite-based campaign to get back at those evil cishet people.
Not at all. We desperately need to do better for the trans and bi sections of our community. But the solution proposed is not the one to go with. Like, at all. We're proposing making other people not feel comfortable at Pride. How is that possibly a good thing? How is pushing the same behavior we hate on others going to help anyone?
I don't feel comfortable anywhere in public either. Hell it was just last year that I actually held hands with a boyfriend in public and I STILL clench up when we do because I'm terrified of what might happen. I'm always scanning the crowd to make sure we aren't attracting unwanted attention. I imagine this is probably a very familiar feeling to anyone in this thread and I don't want anyone else to ever have to feel that way, no matter who they are or what they've done (with the exception of a few notable homophobes who desperately need to walk in some other shoes for a while).
I don't think you can rightly compare the experiences that many LGBT folks deal with in their day-to-day lives with making straight people feel unwelcome at a Pride event. Like, I got social anxiety issues and all, but if I felt unwelcome or unsafe at a Pride celebration, I could just go literally anywhere else and feel pretty secure again. Like, despite my anxiety, being in anonymous public is a thing of relative safety for me because I'm the kind of person everyone will just ignore. That's a position of incredible privilege and it completely changes the realities of that experience. I appreciate your desire for total inclusivity, but we don't live in a world where that's a realistic possibility, and as a cishet person, I believe that my comfort and general sense of welcome should absolutely be the first thing to go if the trade-off is making things better for LGBT folk.
to impose some sorta gay third reich. thats where we were going there right
no? no? ok, egg on my face. lotta yolk
Just for bisexuals. Don't need much of anything at all to shit on them.
oh for fucks sake. if you want some sort of Karen caricature look elsewhere
like im the antichrist for not wanting straight people to take over another facet of my life. we're gonna seize on miscommunication despite my apologizing. i'll bite. ill follow this fuckin repugnant chain of thought to its conclusion
its disingenuous to say that my premise was that i could READ MINDS and KNOW THAT EVERY COUPLE KISSING IS HETERO. this assumes i cant talk to other people at pride and therefore just have a bunch of a assumptions. alright cool. lets be fuckin myopic
i liked when you were a shithead to me when was a male forum poster because it was over pretty much instantly, now you and every other goddamn yokel not only want to say i hate bi people, but you want me to fuckin believe it.
simply because im not gonna adhere to this fuckin childish circle jerk of platitudes. that talking about somebody's place in pride is like, tantamount to the violence happening to us.
im supposed to sincerely parrot every time someone breaks out their fisher price toys and sucks their thumb and says "if u say somethin about stwait pee-pul youre just as baaad" and thats it. thats discourse. no. no, we are not all equal, we are not all the same. nobody has seen two hetero folk kissing in public and then gone to a nightclub and killed 50 of them with a goddamned machine gun
I think we can all agree the rampant corporatism and political pandering of Pride is a harmful turn of events, yeah?
Politicians who smile and wave and march in the parade and then do nothing politically to help queer people in any meaningful way.
And not in "well my hands are tied by the shitty state senate" kind of sense. They don't even try.
A good example is in Ontario, with politicians in the Liberal Party marching in "solidarity" but when it comes to passing actual laws that positively change things for queer people, it's gotta come from the NDP because actually trying to do anything is too politically risky for those Liberals.
It's lip service in the worst way. Saying they're a friend of LGBT people with a grin but not in a way that could cost them anything.
Corporations do this too. "We're a proud sponsor of Pride" meanwhile pay no attention to our abysmal hiring policies for trans people or our horrible culture of sexual harassment complaints from gay employees. No, no, please pay attention to the fact that we put a rainbow in our logo for a week.
Modern Pride is basically like Earth Hour in terms of slacktivism for people with power; it's easy and safe to say you're doing for the one time a year it comes up, and then quietly forgotten in all other respects and at all other times a year because actual change is hard.
For the record, I totally get the feeling of not wanting straight people at our festival. I hated straight people for a good 10+ years in my 20's onward and I'm still not a huge fan of them but I cannot see the good in throwing the same hateful practice back at anyone.
This is the same as if the local Basilica Block Party posted rules that lgbt couples couldn't kiss or hold hands on while on the festival lot. If you wouldn't be ok with that I can't see how you could be ok with the reverse. I get that nothing bad has ever happened to cishet people on the same scale but that doesn't mean that it should.
Do you truly think it's that absurd to have a discussion about maybe giving special attention to making sure that trans people and other especially marginalized groups feel comfortable at Pride events?
I don't just waltz into random bars or clubs or other social gatherings with the expectation of having a good time. Ever, at all, period. I do not feel safe socializing with an unfiltered segment of the general public. I do not feel confident that I will be treated with respect. I either find specific LGBT-focused social groups or events, or I stay home.
Talk all you want about the progress that has been made. The fact of the matter is that right now, today, I do not feel like I have a reliably safe place in mainstream society. Not just in terms of, like, dating in public, but in terms of walking down the street. Buying groceries. Taking a bus. (Christ, I can't even imagine taking public transportation alone; I'm so lucky to live in a place where I can have a car.) As long as that remains true, the less differentiated Pride becomes from mainstream society, the less likely I am to feel like I can safely and confidently be there, either. If you don't give a fuck then you don't give a fuck, but that's what this discussion is about. It's not about some spite-based campaign to get back at those evil cishet people.
Not at all. We desperately need to do better for the trans and bi sections of our community. But the solution proposed is not the one to go with. Like, at all. We're proposing making other people not feel comfortable at Pride. How is that possibly a good thing? How is pushing the same behavior we hate on others going to help anyone?
I don't feel comfortable anywhere in public either. Hell it was just last year that I actually held hands with a boyfriend in public and I STILL clench up when we do because I'm terrified of what might happen. I'm always scanning the crowd to make sure we aren't attracting unwanted attention. I imagine this is probably a very familiar feeling to anyone in this thread and I don't want anyone else to ever have to feel that way, no matter who they are or what they've done (with the exception of a few notable homophobes who desperately need to walk in some other shoes for a while).
But not so desperately that the idea of slightly inconveniencing a straight person is met with anything other than utmost revilement.
Honestly I wish you would just come out and say, "Either suck it up or you don't belong at Pride." I don't see you putting forth any alternative options.
Switch: SW-2431-2728-9604 || 3DS: 0817-4948-1650
+3
Options
StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
I mean, I think the idea of like "straight people shouldn't be at Pride" or "straight people shouldn't make out at Pride" or whatever is a fraught one
Do I think that there is a problem with straight people kind of co-opting Pride for their own purposes (gettin' drunk and fucking other straight people)?
Yes, absolutely
But I don't see a clear solution to that which doesn't come off as, well, shitty
Pride should be a safe place for everyone underneath the umbrella, absolutely, and anyone who comes to Pride to start shit or try to invalidate that safety, yeah, that's a problem
But not every straight person is coming to Pride to start shit
I think we can all agree the rampant corporatism and political pandering of Pride is a harmful turn of events, yeah?
Politicians who smile and wave and march in the parade and then do nothing politically to help queer people in any meaningful way.
And not in "well my hands are tied by the shitty state senate" kind of sense. They don't even try.
A good example is in Ontario, with politicians in the Liberal Party marching in "solidarity" but when it comes to passing actual laws that positively change things for queer people, it's gotta come from the NDP because actually trying to do anything is too politically risky for those Liberals.
It's lip service in the worst way. Saying they're a friend of LGBT people with a grin but not in a way that could cost them anything.
Corporations do this too. "We're a proud sponsor of Pride" meanwhile pay no attention to our abysmal hiring policies for trans people or our horrible culture of sexual harassment complaints from gay employees. No, no, please pay attention to the fact that we put a rainbow in our logo for a week.
Modern Pride is basically like Earth Hour in terms of slacktivism for people with power; it's easy and safe to say you're doing for the one time a year it comes up, and then quietly forgotten in all other respects and at all other times a year because actual change is hard.
It's just a more public form of hashtag "political activism". There is the dilemma of the stuff that actually helps isn't super visible, but that shouldn't fucking matter. If corporations want credit for doing good, the least they could do is actually put in the absolute minimal work required to improve things on a practical scale.
Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
I understand this is a "Geth is a robot" thing, but jeeze is a random message calling a transwoman banned from the thread for arguing re: cishet people a breeder a fuckin' sad offensive irony
We're using "straight" an awful lot in this discussion and that's really bothering me for what's hopefully obvious reasons. I'm going to replace that with "cishet" in the following bit.
The problem I still have is that you can't identify a cishet person by appearance or by actions.
So you decide that it's sensible to ask cishet people not to kiss other cishet people and perform certain other activities in Pride. That becomes the culture. Ok. What happens next?
How do you "enforce" this, culturally? Presumably with looks, or with "polite" (hopefully but frequently definitely not) requests to refrain from this activity.
How do you direct that at just the cishet people? If you see what looks like two cishet people making out at Pride, do you walk up to them and ask "Excuse me, but are the two of you cishet? If so, could you refrain from that here please?" I hope you can see how marginalizing, excluding, and downright hostile that would be every time it's not a cishet couple you're addressing.
So you do nothing? Ask ahead of time but then nobody at Pride uses dirty looks or gentle words or anything else to try to make it the culture? Then it's toothless and ineffective. Nothing would change.
And if this activity bothers you specifically, you'll still be bothered every time you see what you think is a cishet couple engaging in this activity, even if it's literally nothing but LGBT people doing this the entire time.
Like it's one thing to vent about this kind of stuff bothering you. Nothing wrong with that at all. But there's no practical way to go about making any of this happen, not without excluding a huge portion of the LGBT umbrella (while ironically including some cishet people like cishet drag queens since they'll seem to fit the presentation).
Fleur de Alys on
Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
I understand this is a "Geth is a robot" thing, but jeeze is a random message calling a transwoman banned from the thread for arguing re: cishet people a breeder a fuckin' sad offensive irony
Posts
some of the pressure has come from threats of violence and at least one attempted bombing as a response to their policy
This is the same as if the local Basilica Block Party posted rules that lgbt couples couldn't kiss or hold hands on while on the festival lot. If you wouldn't be ok with that I can't see how you could be ok with the reverse. I get that nothing bad has ever happened to cishet people on the same scale but that doesn't mean that it should.
When I worked for the LGBT publication Xtra! in Toronto, we got a bomb threat. I was the only midnighter scheduled to work that night, and was told that there's an undercover police car parked just outside, visible from my area, that was there to watch for suspicious activity.
That really didn't make me feel better about working that evening.
Steam: TheArcadeBear
Pretty sure that "attempted bombing" was actually an "attempted drug lab" and had nothing to do with their bathroom policies.
ah when it first happened I saw people connecting it, I see that was not the case
and remember that it apparently takes goddamn riots to get ground on minority rights
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
Immediately after Orlando, before it became clear how hard the right wing was going to ignore the homophobia that drove the shooting, and the identity of the people who died, the reaction that made me the angriest was when the Log Cabin Republicans came out with an incredibly right wing statement blaming Muslims for the attack, clumsily enough that it reads as if the only threat to LGBT people are foreigners and Muslims.
Compounding that was the Pink Pistols, an LGBT pro-gun group so unaware of the history of LGBT people that they honestly think that arming ourselves will keep us safe, releasing the normal, horrible bullshit statement about how guns don't kill people, people kilzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. As if there aren't uncountable instances of marginalized people of all stripes trying to defend themselves and being arrested and imprisoned for it.
Arming minority groups has never turned out well, regardless of intent. Ask the Black Panthers how that went.
Be a good way to enact gun control laws though. Imagine how fast the right would flip their stance of a bunch of LGBT poc started open carrying.
Twitter
What could possibly go wrong
If they're there in good faith and as allies then they should be welcomed with open arms and big gay dance numbers and all that good stuff. If not, then they should fuck off and wait for St. Paddy's day if they want a parade for straight folk.
That's how I read it though, and I ain't exactly a well read or scholarly guy, so take it with some salt.
pink pistols had a booth at our pride as well
"queers who carry DON'T GET BASHED"
it was fucking revolting
i think it depends on your city. i'm pretty lucky with mine but i really can't speak for anyone else's
I don't just waltz into random bars or clubs or other social gatherings with the expectation of having a good time. Ever, at all, period. I do not feel safe socializing with an unfiltered segment of the general public. I do not feel confident that I will be treated with respect. I either find specific LGBT-focused social groups or events, or I stay home.
Talk all you want about the progress that has been made. The fact of the matter is that right now, today, I do not feel like I have a reliably safe place in mainstream society. Not just in terms of, like, dating in public, but in terms of walking down the street. Buying groceries. Taking a bus. (Christ, I can't even imagine taking public transportation alone; I'm so lucky to live in a place where I can have a car.) As long as that remains true, the less differentiated Pride becomes from mainstream society, the less likely I am to feel like I can safely and confidently be there, either. If you don't give a fuck then you don't give a fuck, but that's what this discussion is about. It's not about some spite-based campaign to get back at those evil cishet people.
to impose some sorta gay third reich. thats where we were going there right
no? no? ok, egg on my face. lotta yolk
Republicans seem pretty excited about accepting gay people into the ranks these days. You just have to shut up except when they need you to tell other queer people to how good they actually have it.
Not at all. We desperately need to do better for the trans and bi sections of our community. But the solution proposed is not the one to go with. Like, at all. We're proposing making other people not feel comfortable at Pride. How is that possibly a good thing? How is pushing the same behavior we hate on others going to help anyone?
I don't feel comfortable anywhere in public either. Hell it was just last year that I actually held hands with a boyfriend in public and I STILL clench up when we do because I'm terrified of what might happen. I'm always scanning the crowd to make sure we aren't attracting unwanted attention. I imagine this is probably a very familiar feeling to anyone in this thread and I don't want anyone else to ever have to feel that way, no matter who they are or what they've done (with the exception of a few notable homophobes who desperately need to walk in some other shoes for a while).
:?
Just for bisexuals. Don't need much of anything at all to shit on them.
Gay people and trans people want a safe space where they can be visible. Cool.
Us too.
I don't think you can rightly compare the experiences that many LGBT folks deal with in their day-to-day lives with making straight people feel unwelcome at a Pride event. Like, I got social anxiety issues and all, but if I felt unwelcome or unsafe at a Pride celebration, I could just go literally anywhere else and feel pretty secure again. Like, despite my anxiety, being in anonymous public is a thing of relative safety for me because I'm the kind of person everyone will just ignore. That's a position of incredible privilege and it completely changes the realities of that experience. I appreciate your desire for total inclusivity, but we don't live in a world where that's a realistic possibility, and as a cishet person, I believe that my comfort and general sense of welcome should absolutely be the first thing to go if the trade-off is making things better for LGBT folk.
oh for fucks sake. if you want some sort of Karen caricature look elsewhere
like im the antichrist for not wanting straight people to take over another facet of my life. we're gonna seize on miscommunication despite my apologizing. i'll bite. ill follow this fuckin repugnant chain of thought to its conclusion
its disingenuous to say that my premise was that i could READ MINDS and KNOW THAT EVERY COUPLE KISSING IS HETERO. this assumes i cant talk to other people at pride and therefore just have a bunch of a assumptions. alright cool. lets be fuckin myopic
i liked when you were a shithead to me when was a male forum poster because it was over pretty much instantly, now you and every other goddamn yokel not only want to say i hate bi people, but you want me to fuckin believe it.
simply because im not gonna adhere to this fuckin childish circle jerk of platitudes. that talking about somebody's place in pride is like, tantamount to the violence happening to us.
im supposed to sincerely parrot every time someone breaks out their fisher price toys and sucks their thumb and says "if u say somethin about stwait pee-pul youre just as baaad" and thats it. thats discourse. no. no, we are not all equal, we are not all the same. nobody has seen two hetero folk kissing in public and then gone to a nightclub and killed 50 of them with a goddamned machine gun
Politicians who smile and wave and march in the parade and then do nothing politically to help queer people in any meaningful way.
And not in "well my hands are tied by the shitty state senate" kind of sense. They don't even try.
A good example is in Ontario, with politicians in the Liberal Party marching in "solidarity" but when it comes to passing actual laws that positively change things for queer people, it's gotta come from the NDP because actually trying to do anything is too politically risky for those Liberals.
It's lip service in the worst way. Saying they're a friend of LGBT people with a grin but not in a way that could cost them anything.
Corporations do this too. "We're a proud sponsor of Pride" meanwhile pay no attention to our abysmal hiring policies for trans people or our horrible culture of sexual harassment complaints from gay employees. No, no, please pay attention to the fact that we put a rainbow in our logo for a week.
Modern Pride is basically like Earth Hour in terms of slacktivism for people with power; it's easy and safe to say you're doing for the one time a year it comes up, and then quietly forgotten in all other respects and at all other times a year because actual change is hard.
Feel free to piss and moan about this on Twitter! Maybe stay there!
Honestly I wish you would just come out and say, "Either suck it up or you don't belong at Pride." I don't see you putting forth any alternative options.
Do I think that there is a problem with straight people kind of co-opting Pride for their own purposes (gettin' drunk and fucking other straight people)?
Yes, absolutely
But I don't see a clear solution to that which doesn't come off as, well, shitty
Pride should be a safe place for everyone underneath the umbrella, absolutely, and anyone who comes to Pride to start shit or try to invalidate that safety, yeah, that's a problem
But not every straight person is coming to Pride to start shit
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
It's just a more public form of hashtag "political activism". There is the dilemma of the stuff that actually helps isn't super visible, but that shouldn't fucking matter. If corporations want credit for doing good, the least they could do is actually put in the absolute minimal work required to improve things on a practical scale.
Direct all complaints to my inbox
I understand this is a "Geth is a robot" thing, but jeeze is a random message calling a transwoman banned from the thread for arguing re: cishet people a breeder a fuckin' sad offensive irony
The problem I still have is that you can't identify a cishet person by appearance or by actions.
So you decide that it's sensible to ask cishet people not to kiss other cishet people and perform certain other activities in Pride. That becomes the culture. Ok. What happens next?
How do you "enforce" this, culturally? Presumably with looks, or with "polite" (hopefully but frequently definitely not) requests to refrain from this activity.
How do you direct that at just the cishet people? If you see what looks like two cishet people making out at Pride, do you walk up to them and ask "Excuse me, but are the two of you cishet? If so, could you refrain from that here please?" I hope you can see how marginalizing, excluding, and downright hostile that would be every time it's not a cishet couple you're addressing.
So you do nothing? Ask ahead of time but then nobody at Pride uses dirty looks or gentle words or anything else to try to make it the culture? Then it's toothless and ineffective. Nothing would change.
And if this activity bothers you specifically, you'll still be bothered every time you see what you think is a cishet couple engaging in this activity, even if it's literally nothing but LGBT people doing this the entire time.
Like it's one thing to vent about this kind of stuff bothering you. Nothing wrong with that at all. But there's no practical way to go about making any of this happen, not without excluding a huge portion of the LGBT umbrella (while ironically including some cishet people like cishet drag queens since they'll seem to fit the presentation).
There's literally nothing I can do about it.
It costs hundreds of dollars per hour of work and goes in a queue for maybe a month or two.