If Miz doesn't get serious consideration for wrestler of the year in our thread awards we all fucked up btw.
He is white hot...and Ziggler winning to save his career is the perfect out to move him on to feuding for the big belt. Problem is I don't know how they can...AJ needs to hold it for a while
fuuuuuuuck why did I have to be at a shitty stand-up open mic night, and not at home watching Smackdown
What are the highlights if I wanna look it up on YouTube?
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facetiousa wit so dryit shits sandRegistered Userregular
So uh, is Dolph opting out early of his contract I wonder.
I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
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facetiousa wit so dryit shits sandRegistered Userregular
Man I want to do basically nothing other than talk about how great Miz is right now.
The most impressive thing is he really didn't need to get better than he already was, both in the ring and on the mic. The people that didn't already appreciate him probably never will. It's not even like Cena trying to put on five-star matches, the people that dislike Cena all generally accept his skills. Miz has probably an even worse stigma against him from some segments of fans that he'll probably never win over.
And yet he's started putting on great matches, expanding his moveset, and delivering even better promos. I respect the hell out of anyone who does more than they need to. It's not like his job was in jeopardy, he'll always have a place in the midcard. And it's not even like it's a guarantee he'll get pushed up to the main event (although he SHOULD) so it seems even more to just be him wanting to be great.
"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde
PwnanObrienHe's right, life sucks.Registered Userregular
Remember when The Miz had that first really great Daniel Bryan program in WWE?
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facetiousa wit so dryit shits sandRegistered Userregular
I just realized my biggest frustration with WWE booking.
I was saying last night how I wish they could have a face who's just nice, and I still stand by that. But the thing is, I love shade of grey characters too! I'm a huge proponent of having a lot more nuance than clear heels and clear faces.
The WWE's problem, though, is they have characters that don't fit either archetype, which is fine, and yet they still treat them, and book them, and expect the crowd to react to them as either a clear heel or clear face. This is the problem with Roman, and Cena, and Rusev, and Styles post-turn - the latter of which is especially annoying because they had a really good thing going with Styles, genuinely playing up the uncertainty, before committing to him being a heel.
Also like, oftentimes what WWE considers a good person and what I consider a good person don't match up. I want to be able to choose who I root for and who I don't, WWE! Give me complex characters and allow me to decide! Don't just tell me who I'm supposed to root for.
"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde
I just realized my biggest frustration with WWE booking.
I was saying last night how I wish they could have a face who's just nice, and I still stand by that. But the thing is, I love shade of grey characters too! I'm a huge proponent of having a lot more nuance than clear heels and clear faces.
The WWE's problem, though, is they have characters that don't fit either archetype, which is fine, and yet they still treat them, and book them, and expect the crowd to react to them as either a clear heel or clear face. This is the problem with Roman, and Cena, and Rusev, and Styles post-turn - the latter of which is especially annoying because they had a really good thing going with Styles, genuinely playing up the uncertainty, before committing to him being a heel.
Also like, oftentimes what WWE considers a good person and what I consider a good person don't match up. I want to be able to choose who I root for and who I don't, WWE! Give me complex characters and allow me to decide! Don't just tell me who I'm supposed to root for.
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facetiousa wit so dryit shits sandRegistered Userregular
NXT Bayley and Sami fit those roles, yeah. But main roster Sami has not, and it's maybe too early to tell with Bayley, but I've already been concerned with some of her character's actions.
"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde
PwnanObrienHe's right, life sucks.Registered Userregular
One of these days Mick Foley playing Sonic The Hedgehog will be up there with that video of Mr. Rogers learning to breakdance in terms of things that inspire good in this world.
So Foley was corrupted pretty quickly huh? Been a douche for a good few weeks making terrible matches or robbing two guys who've destroyed each other of a match for one of the major titles.
I half think that the story they're telling is "Foley is bad at his job". I may be giving the Raw writers too much benefit of the doubt.
I think the they might actually be writing it that he's good at it.
You know, like how they write good guys who bully and shame and all that.
NXT Bayley and Sami fit those roles, yeah. But main roster Sami has not, and it's maybe too early to tell with Bayley, but I've already been concerned with some of her character's actions.
I really love the idea of Sami being a genuinely good guy who's been pushed so far that he's teetering on maybe having to push himself over the edge into not-quite-a-heel territory. Everyone has breaking points, it's super relatable. And it was a really big defining part of his story-arc in NXT when he was facing Adrian Neville for the title. There was always the underlying feeling of "Neville knew he had to compromise his morals to win, is Sami going to do the same?" But he didn't, and that's the important part.
And then he started butting heads with Kevin Owens, which has essentially been his story for the past two years, from NXT through to the main roster. And Sami's not-completely-pure tendencies were completely justified on the main roster at first, especially the way he went after Kevin in the Rumble. But somewhere along the way, with Kevin Owens becoming more likable and his own actions easily justifiable, it all got kind of muddled. The fact that Kevin Owens has seemed to move on from their rivalry for the time being while Sami Zayn, even though he definitively won this round can't seem to, doesn't help any.
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facetiousa wit so dryit shits sandRegistered Userregular
edited September 2016
I guess yeah, if we're treating it as a continuation of his NXT arc then I'm okay with it. But I did like how even when he got pushed to that point, in the Neville match he still threw the belt away rather than use it. That was one of my favourite moments in wrestling ever precisely because actual goodness prevailed.
But I guess I've been thinking WWE is treating his main roster arc as a separate thing but I guess that's no longer really true. Sami is probably the best example of them continuuing a story from NXT to the main show. Which in that case, yeah, I do like how he's been 'corrupted'.
facetious on
"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde
I guess yeah, if we're treating it as a continuation of his NXT arc then I'm okay with it. But I did like how even when he got pushed to that point, in the Neville match he still threw the belt away rather than use it. That was one of my favourite moments in wrestling ever precisely because actual goodness prevailed.
But I guess I've been thinking WWE is treating his main roster arc as a separate thing but I guess that's no longer really true. Sami is probably the best example of them continuuing a story from NXT to the main show. Which in that case, yeah, I do like how he's been 'corrupted'.
Exactly! And like I said, that's the important part in all of it. Because it showed that you don't HAVE to give in, goodness can in fact prevail even in the face of extreme stress and desperation to win. Which is something WWE doesn't do very often or very well.
Ugh, Sami Zayn in NXT was so fucking great.
hailtothekale on
+5
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LegacyStuck Somewhere In CyberspaceThe Grid(Seattle)Registered User, ClubPAregular
I just realized my biggest frustration with WWE booking.
I was saying last night how I wish they could have a face who's just nice, and I still stand by that. But the thing is, I love shade of grey characters too! I'm a huge proponent of having a lot more nuance than clear heels and clear faces.
The WWE's problem, though, is they have characters that don't fit either archetype, which is fine, and yet they still treat them, and book them, and expect the crowd to react to them as either a clear heel or clear face. This is the problem with Roman, and Cena, and Rusev, and Styles post-turn - the latter of which is especially annoying because they had a really good thing going with Styles, genuinely playing up the uncertainty, before committing to him being a heel.
Also like, oftentimes what WWE considers a good person and what I consider a good person don't match up. I want to be able to choose who I root for and who I don't, WWE! Give me complex characters and allow me to decide! Don't just tell me who I'm supposed to root for.
I have long maintained with face turns that merch is the underlying issue. Once booking gets a hint that the crowd is starting to pull for a guy because he is so good despite his character or he has sort of become a cool bad guy who has been working heel they cannot resist turning them to get that sweet, sweet T-shirt and foam finger money. Heel turns can be more creative...they are often story driven, roster balance driven or because the character has grown stale...but making somebody a good guy or keeping them a good guy when a vocal segment has tired of them is all about how much merch they sell.
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I generally hate retirement stipulation matches but Dolph's genuine emotion really sold that.
also Miz is 10000% the type of character who would be willing to put his title up just to say he had retired someone. It all just worked.
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
He is white hot...and Ziggler winning to save his career is the perfect out to move him on to feuding for the big belt. Problem is I don't know how they can...AJ needs to hold it for a while
what?
AJ super smart
WITH MUSICAL GUEST
KID ROCK
ARGH
bryans confused his instagram story for tout
I was not happy with the cameramen on both sides of the door during Orton's boilerroom journey. I don't know why they ever do things like that.
What are the highlights if I wanna look it up on YouTube?
This is probably condensed but:
Also did this air on the show? I missed it if so, but it's a really cool package about Miz's career:
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
The most impressive thing is he really didn't need to get better than he already was, both in the ring and on the mic. The people that didn't already appreciate him probably never will. It's not even like Cena trying to put on five-star matches, the people that dislike Cena all generally accept his skills. Miz has probably an even worse stigma against him from some segments of fans that he'll probably never win over.
And yet he's started putting on great matches, expanding his moveset, and delivering even better promos. I respect the hell out of anyone who does more than they need to. It's not like his job was in jeopardy, he'll always have a place in the midcard. And it's not even like it's a guarantee he'll get pushed up to the main event (although he SHOULD) so it seems even more to just be him wanting to be great.
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
They don't even like face/face matchups. It's maddening.
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
I was saying last night how I wish they could have a face who's just nice, and I still stand by that. But the thing is, I love shade of grey characters too! I'm a huge proponent of having a lot more nuance than clear heels and clear faces.
The WWE's problem, though, is they have characters that don't fit either archetype, which is fine, and yet they still treat them, and book them, and expect the crowd to react to them as either a clear heel or clear face. This is the problem with Roman, and Cena, and Rusev, and Styles post-turn - the latter of which is especially annoying because they had a really good thing going with Styles, genuinely playing up the uncertainty, before committing to him being a heel.
Also like, oftentimes what WWE considers a good person and what I consider a good person don't match up. I want to be able to choose who I root for and who I don't, WWE! Give me complex characters and allow me to decide! Don't just tell me who I'm supposed to root for.
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
I think the they might actually be writing it that he's good at it.
You know, like how they write good guys who bully and shame and all that.
Developmental brand extension? ;P
"Hey WWE Universe, guess what? It turns out that Sting didn't vanish off the face of the Earth for more than a decade!"
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
I really love the idea of Sami being a genuinely good guy who's been pushed so far that he's teetering on maybe having to push himself over the edge into not-quite-a-heel territory. Everyone has breaking points, it's super relatable. And it was a really big defining part of his story-arc in NXT when he was facing Adrian Neville for the title. There was always the underlying feeling of "Neville knew he had to compromise his morals to win, is Sami going to do the same?" But he didn't, and that's the important part.
And then he started butting heads with Kevin Owens, which has essentially been his story for the past two years, from NXT through to the main roster. And Sami's not-completely-pure tendencies were completely justified on the main roster at first, especially the way he went after Kevin in the Rumble. But somewhere along the way, with Kevin Owens becoming more likable and his own actions easily justifiable, it all got kind of muddled. The fact that Kevin Owens has seemed to move on from their rivalry for the time being while Sami Zayn, even though he definitively won this round can't seem to, doesn't help any.
But I guess I've been thinking WWE is treating his main roster arc as a separate thing but I guess that's no longer really true. Sami is probably the best example of them continuuing a story from NXT to the main show. Which in that case, yeah, I do like how he's been 'corrupted'.
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
However, Brother Nero himself has stepped up and will be there to face Rey Mysterio. Hm. I think that's still a win...
Must not have given him his 5 star hotel room he demanded.
Exactly! And like I said, that's the important part in all of it. Because it showed that you don't HAVE to give in, goodness can in fact prevail even in the face of extreme stress and desperation to win. Which is something WWE doesn't do very often or very well.
Ugh, Sami Zayn in NXT was so fucking great.
Well, it is Yakima...I don't think there's a 5 star hotel room less than 2 hours away...
I have long maintained with face turns that merch is the underlying issue. Once booking gets a hint that the crowd is starting to pull for a guy because he is so good despite his character or he has sort of become a cool bad guy who has been working heel they cannot resist turning them to get that sweet, sweet T-shirt and foam finger money. Heel turns can be more creative...they are often story driven, roster balance driven or because the character has grown stale...but making somebody a good guy or keeping them a good guy when a vocal segment has tired of them is all about how much merch they sell.