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[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] Brexit, Pursued by a Blair

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    japanjapan Registered User regular
    Karl wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    japan wrote: »
    Called it

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/22/doctors-threaten-to-boycott-plan-for-patients-to-show-id-for-nhs-care

    Money quote:
    “The National Audit Office estimates that the uncollected fees are £200m a year. We have got an NHS with a deficit approaching 100 times that amount opening up over the course of this parliament. This is little other than a pinprick on top of the actual problems facing the NHS.

    “Introducing something across the entire NHS in this way in response to such a small problem would be tremendously controversial.”

    This is just another "election fraud" type bug bear. It's blowing up a problem that yes, does happen, but is literally orders of magnitude less prevalent than people think it is and any measures to tackle it would cause more problems than they would solve.

    Sometimes you just need to let shit like this slide.

    It's an easy political win.

    Like clamping down on people defrauding the benefit system when really what we need to do is get companies to stop avoiding paying tax

    I don't think it'll be that easy

    There is some fairly strong feeling among the medical profession about being turned into part-time immigration officials when they could be doing their actual job

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    Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-british-leaders-wind-farms?utm_content=buffera77d7&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
    During a meeting with leaders of the Brexit movement following the election, Donald Trump asked them to push back against offshore wind farms like the one that can be seen from his golf course in Scotland, according to reports in the New York Times and British paper The Express.

    Trump has been fighting a wind farm off of the coast of Aberdeen for a while since the turbines can be seen from his golf course in Aberdeenshire, but he lost a court battle in December 2015.

    There's the Trump business angle behind the Farage meeting. What a basket of cunts.

    It's already been to the high courts where Trump has lost.

    Lets ignore the potential hypocrisy of Farage trying to get a High Court decision reverted for a head of state of a foreign country for a second. Scotland have no love for Trump and I doubt Farage is tremendously popular either (does UKIP even have a presence in Scotland?).

    I'm not entirely sure what pressure Trump could apply to Scotland tbh.

    PSN Fleety2009
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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    UKIP has no strength in Scotland and is seen there, accurately, as an example of English stupidity and nationalism. Farage was roundly booed there and made to feel most unwelcome.

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    Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    UKIP has no strength in Scotland and is seen there, accurately, as an example of English stupidity and nationalism. Farage was roundly booed there and made to feel most unwelcome.

    Sometimes I wish Scotland could come along and swallow up where I live.

    PSN Fleety2009
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    Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    UKIP has no strength in Scotland and is seen there, accurately, as an example of English stupidity and nationalism. Farage was roundly booed there and made to feel most unwelcome.

    yeah, we've got our own brand of stupid nationalism. we don't need any English flavours thank you very much.

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    BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    Wraith260 wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    UKIP has no strength in Scotland and is seen there, accurately, as an example of English stupidity and nationalism. Farage was roundly booed there and made to feel most unwelcome.

    yeah, we've got our own brand of stupid nationalism. we don't need any English flavours thank you very much.

    Scotland's nationalism resulted in the only political party in the entire country that seems to have any idea what it's doing.

    I would gladly take some of that nationalism.

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    Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    Wraith260 wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    UKIP has no strength in Scotland and is seen there, accurately, as an example of English stupidity and nationalism. Farage was roundly booed there and made to feel most unwelcome.

    yeah, we've got our own brand of stupid nationalism. we don't need any English flavours thank you very much.

    Scotland's nationalism resulted in the only political party in the entire country that seems to have any idea what it's doing.

    I would gladly take some of that nationalism.

    key words there, "seems to". lets not forget that not so long ago they were pushing for independence with about as many answers as the Brexit crowd have now. not sure i'm going to give them to much credit for asking questions now that they should have been asking 5 years ago.

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    altidaltid Registered User regular
    The farage ambassador crap really does show that the media has not learnt anything from both brexit and trump. It's a non-story. There's no reason to report much of it beyond the bottom of a politics section, and even then only for the sake of recording statements rather than giving them any credence at all. Farage will not be ambassador - not least because ambassador positions aren't just handed out to politicians/loud mouthed idiots because they want one. It's a position filled by senior civil servants who have years of experience in foreign affairs.

    Yet as of writing this, the headline story on the BBC news site is this:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38064664
    An article about farage's petulant response to being told to fuck off. There has also been hours of discussion on the radio and news programs. All for a non-story. I still blame the BBC in part for farage and UKIP as a whole since they gave him coverage hugely disproportionate to the amount of votes he was getting. For a time the only person who appeared on Question Time more often was David Dimbleby.

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    Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    The (soon to be) President of America acting in this way is very much not a non-story.

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    BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    The (soon to be) President of America acting in this way is very much not a non-story.

    Neither is our government telling him to fuck off.

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    altidaltid Registered User regular
    If he decides to remove our current ambassador when he actually is the president, then it's a story (and a diplomatic incident). Even then the UK government chooses the ambassador, not the president of the united states. Trump should also remember that as president he represents the US, not Donald Trump.

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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    If he decides to remove our current ambassador when he actually is the president, then it's a story (and a diplomatic incident). Even then the UK government chooses the ambassador, not the president of the united states. Trump should also remember that as president he represents the US, not Donald Trump.

    Good luck with that

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    altidaltid Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    altid wrote: »
    If he decides to remove our current ambassador when he actually is the president, then it's a story (and a diplomatic incident). Even then the UK government chooses the ambassador, not the president of the united states. Trump should also remember that as president he represents the US, not Donald Trump.

    Good luck with that

    I fully expect him to screw it up, but not without backlash. I'm just waiting for the Putin state visit to the US to see what happens. The US state department and UK foreign office staff will be in good company covering for screwups by people who have no clue about diplomacy and tact.

    altid on
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    The (soon to be) President of America acting in this way is very much not a non-story.

    Yup. Trump using his position for personal gain and personal business is a HUGE story.

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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    And yet, it is soon to become the status quo, so...

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    Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular

    Gosh, for someone so confident in his ability who was loudly scoffing at Downing Street's tepid response to Trump's suggestion he seems awfully touchy about the subject.

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    Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    The farage ambassador crap really does show that the media has not learnt anything from both brexit and trump. It's a non-story. There's no reason to report much of it beyond the bottom of a politics section, and even then only for the sake of recording statements rather than giving them any credence at all. Farage will not be ambassador - not least because ambassador positions aren't just handed out to politicians/loud mouthed idiots because they want one. It's a position filled by senior civil servants who have years of experience in foreign affairs.

    Yet as of writing this, the headline story on the BBC news site is this:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38064664
    An article about farage's petulant response to being told to fuck off. There has also been hours of discussion on the radio and news programs. All for a non-story. I still blame the BBC in part for farage and UKIP as a whole since they gave him coverage hugely disproportionate to the amount of votes he was getting. For a time the only person who appeared on Question Time more often was David Dimbleby.

    Well it depends, if the story is about how Farange should totally be made ambassador to cement "The Special Relationship", then yeah the media hasn't learned anything.

    If its to point out what a fucktard Farange and Trump are for believing that their idea is going to fly. Then no, the media should cover it.

    The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
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    Panda4YouPanda4You Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    shryke wrote: »
    The (soon to be) President of America acting in this way is very much not a non-story.
    Yup. Trump using his position for personal gain and personal business is a HUGE story that won't be told until 10 years from now.

    Panda4You on
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    hsuhsu Registered User regular
    And yet, it is soon to become the status quo, so...
    Already the status quo. The Clintons went from being worth nearly nothing after leaving the White House in 2000 to being worth about a hundred million today, heading a foundation worth a couple times that.

    iTNdmYl.png
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    hsu wrote: »
    And yet, it is soon to become the status quo, so...
    Already the status quo. The Clintons went from being worth nearly nothing after leaving the White House in 2000 to being worth about a hundred million today, heading a foundation worth a couple times that.

    None of which was based on using Bill's position as President to enrich themselves while in office or with the powers of the Presidency, making this comparison nonsensical.

    shryke on
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    NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    hsu wrote: »
    And yet, it is soon to become the status quo, so...
    Already the status quo. The Clintons went from being worth nearly nothing after leaving the White House in 2000 to being worth about a hundred million today, heading a foundation worth a couple times that.
    Keyword being after.
    They did not make millions while in the whitehouse.

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    Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular

    Gosh, for someone so confident in his ability who was loudly scoffing at Downing Street's tepid response to Trump's suggestion he seems awfully touchy about the subject.

    Eh, for all we know that's how he greets anyone in the European Parliament

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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    Bad-BeatBad-Beat Registered User regular
    Wanted to share this article which sums up my, and I think most of our thoughts on Labour with regards to Brexit.

    On Brexit, the Labour leadership offers anxious voters … nothing
    Last week the shadow chancellor, John McDonnell, made a speech at a “tech hub” in central London. He correctly portrayed whole swaths of the country as places defined by “dead town centres, job deserts, stagnant wages, and the constant feeling that the basic things we rely on – our jobs, our savings, our homes – are not safe”. But then he moved on to the question of how Britain should leave the EU, and all sense was lost.

    “It is time we all were more positive about Brexit,” he said, claiming that leaving the EU opened up “enormous opportunities”. He also rejected trying to block or delay article 50 in parliament – even, it seemed, as a means of ensuring that our split from the EU avoids the kind of recklessness advocated by some Tories – because to do so would be “against the majority will of the British people and on the side of certain corporate elites”.

    I'm still fixed in my opinion that it is not fear of losing voters that leads Corbyn and McDonnell to lose all backbone for blocking Article 50, but simply because they want us out of the EU and this is their once in a lifetime chances to achieve it; regardless of any consequences. I could rue the fact that Corbyn became leader at possibly the worst ever time for the country but that would miss the vital point: the causes that led to Corbyn's appointment are the same as those that led to Brexit and it appears the two make for wholesome bedfellows.

    Also, I have made my criticism of Labour quite clear recently but I think it's worth noting that there are a fuck-load of Labour MPs desperately trying to avoid the oncoming storm but are impotent to do anything about it in the face of MANDATE. It's a real fucking shame and no doubt they'll be the ones to lose their seats at the inevitable GE slaughter.

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    ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning LoserdomRegistered User regular
    Oh look the Conservatives are trying to clamp down on internet porn again. What a useful expenditure of government time and money.

    Incidentally Brexit is estimated to have cost Britain 10% of its wealth and it hasn't even happened yet.

    But no, go after that wicked, "non-conventional" porn again. That's always a winner.

    Idiots.

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    SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    Shadowen wrote: »
    Oh look the Conservatives are trying to clamp down on internet porn again. What a useful expenditure of government time and money.

    Incidentally Brexit is estimated to have cost Britain 10% of its wealth and it hasn't even happened yet.

    But no, go after that wicked, "non-conventional" porn again. That's always a winner.

    Idiots.

    Via arstechnica
    In the footnote of its statement confirming the planned tweak to the bill, the DCMS admitted that its current proposals are unworkable. It said:

    Websites need servers to host them, advertisers to support them, and infrastructure to connect them. With the international and unregulated manner in which the Internet operates we cannot compel supporting services to be denied but the regulator will seek to gain cooperation from the industry.

    "We can't actually do anything about it but it makes us feel better and look tough while shaming "deviants""

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    D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
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    101101 Registered User regular
    So am I missing something on the porn thing, or do they want every pornsite to have an age gate?

    Whichany idiot knows how to bypass

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    BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    101 wrote: »
    So am I missing something on the porn thing, or do they want every pornsite to have an age gate?

    Whichany idiot knows how to bypass

    Every porn site to have an age gate and all "non-conventional" pornography will be banned.

    Apparently the English vice is just too scandalous for contemporary times.

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/23/censor-non-conventional-sex-acts-online-internet-pornography
    UK to censor online videos of 'non-conventional' sex acts
    There is no definitive list of sexual acts proscribed by the BBFC, but many adult film producers who have worked with the regulator have been forced to cut scenes, said Jerry Barnett, a free speech campaigner and author of Porn Panic!, which details the rise of a new pro-censorship movement in the UK.

    “Although it is nominally designed to enforce the [Obscene Publications Act] guidelines of the Crown Prosecution Service, in practice it draws far tighter lines, many of them inexplicable. The ban on female ejaculation is a particularly strange example,” he said.

    The censorship regime has led to bizarre understandings between the producers and regulators, Barnett said. One is the “four-finger rule”, which limits the number of digits that can be inserted into an orifice for sexual stimulation.
    They want to ban fisting on the internet?

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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    The rules are absurd and seem to come from the personal list of an eighty-seven year old arch-deacon.

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    daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    The censorship regime has led to bizarre understandings between the producers and regulators, Barnett said. One is the “four-finger rule”, which limits the number of digits that can be inserted into an orifice for sexual stimulation.

    So exciting new job opportunities for certain amputees?

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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    Panda4YouPanda4You Registered User regular
    They do seem to spend a lot of time thinking about that stuff?

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    CampyCampy Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    The rules are absurd and seem to come from the personal list of an eighty-seven year old arch-deacon.

    I assume collated from his personal internet history.

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    mere_immortalmere_immortal So tasty!Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38068358
    The UK economy is forecast to be £122bn worse off by 2020 than previously thought, the Autumn Statement shows.

    Chancellor Philip Hammond also said growth predictions had been cut as a result of the Brexit vote but vowed to ensure the UK economy was "resilient".

    And now we won't even be able to watch a bit of bondage to take our minds off it!

    mere_immortal on
    Steam: mere_immortal - PSN: mere_immortal - XBL: lego pencil - Wii U: mimmortal - 3DS: 1521-7234-1642 - Bordgamegeek: mere_immortal
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    Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    Ban This Sick Filth!!

    https://youtu.be/KkJnd9rSAQ8

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    Werewolf2000adWerewolf2000ad Suckers, I know exactly what went wrong. Registered User regular
    In a small piece of good news;

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-38079594
    Thomas Mair has been jailed for life after being found guilty of the murder of Labour MP Jo Cox.

    ...

    He had not entered a plea and chose not to give evidence in his defence at the trial.

    But before sentencing, Mair asked to speak to the courtroom. The judge declined, saying he had already had an opportunity.

    ...

    Mair's inspiration was not love of country but admiration for Nazism, the judge said.

    ...

    Mr Justice Wilkie said the murder was carried out to advance a political cause of violent white supremacism, associated with Nazism.

    ...

    The judge sentenced Mair to life imprisonment, with a whole life term.

    He said he had concluded that the offence was so exceptional that Mair could only be released by a secretary of state.

    steam_sig.png
    EVERYBODY WANTS TO SIT IN THE BIG CHAIR, MEG!
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    KarlKarl Registered User regular
    Shit, we do whole life terms?

    I thought life meant 25 years max?

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    japanjapan Registered User regular
    Karl wrote: »
    Shit, we do whole life terms?

    I thought life meant 25 years max?

    We do, and always have

    There was a tabloid stink a few years ago about whole life terms breaching the ECHR, which the tabloids reported with predictable hyperbole as "European courts forcing the UK to release dangerous prisoners"when actually the ruling merely held that there must always be some kind of review mechanism - which is free to conclude that people should remain in prison

    Hence the bit about the secretary of state

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    Anarchy Rules!Anarchy Rules! Registered User regular
    Karl wrote: »
    Shit, we do whole life terms?

    I thought life meant 25 years max?

    Most do, only serial murderers, or those who have murdered children, police or for ideological reasons are sentenced to whole life sentences.

    They're legal under human rights law because the home secretary can commute the sentence and is meant to review them every 25 years.

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    japanjapan Registered User regular
    Vintner and Ors v UK

    http://www.bailii.org/eu/cases/ECHR/2012/61.html

    Having skimmed it again it actually didn't even go so far as to say that while life terms are necessarily incompatible with the ECHR, only that such a case could potentially become so in exceptional circumstances that the court does not go on to define.

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    AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    As an American I legit do not understand how none of the UK political parties are willing or able to absorb the support of the roughly 50% of the population that's pro-Remain. It's just crazy.

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