The InRange guys did a battle rifle comparisons video a little while back comparing how the rifles handle on the clock, and while their methodology has its flaws (as most amateur gun tests do from a strictly scientific standpoint), notably that most of the shooters involved have an inherent training bias towards ARs, it's still a pretty fun watch
tl;dr wrt the M1A, most of the handling issues relative to a later-era carbine length battle rifle like an AR-10 or SCAR is that it's long and a lot of the weight is very far forward
ThegreatcowLord of All BaconsWashington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered Userregular
So I'm about to tear my hair out over my gunsmith. Since I didn't have my table set up at the time due to multiple missing parts, I sent in my scorpion carbine and glock to get some parts installed. The glock appears to have gone off without a hitch and i got it back last week. However the carbine has been an unending cavalcade of fuckery. So when I picked up the glock as you recall, they installed the safety lever for the carbine upside down and backwards. Ok, whatever I guess maybe he's not familiar with the safety, fine I'll deal. I took it back to him this past saturday and he had it ready yesterday. Go to pick it up and ask to do a function check in the store (they were slammed to the gills but once bitten twice shy I guess).
Check everything and things start to look good. I take it back to my car and decide real quick to check the extended mag release I had installed as well since I realized I hadn't tested that part yet. Insert a mag, hear the click and everything sounds good until...
...the mag won't come out. I can't get the mag to release using the aftermarket paddle. The freaking smith didn't even check to see if he had installed the mag release correctly, despite me including a mag in the case for testing. I'm this close to asking for some refund on this because is frankly ridiculous and makes me wonder what else internally he fucked up (asked to do a trigger polish and installation as well on the carbine)
It doesn't come out at all, or it doesn't drop free?
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ThegreatcowLord of All BaconsWashington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered Userregular
Doesn't come out at all. Like, I've tried it with the bolt in all positions, dropped and pulled back, the mag is snug as a bug and will not come out no matter now much I jiggle it or try adjusting the mag release lever. My theory is that the lever isn't moving back far enough to disengage the catch on the magazine but I'm basically spitballing in annoyance at this point.
That's ask for a refund territory, and time to find a new gunsmith.
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[Paragon]I'm a real doctor, for pretend!North DakotaRegistered Userregular
Yup time to find a new gunsmith, you can replace the mag release in just a couple of minutes at home for future reference. Also as a side note empty mags don't drop free on the scorpion, at least they don't on either of the two lowers I have for mine. Gotta do an MP5 style reload. Full or partial mags will however drop free. This is true of the OG smoked polymer mags (20 and 30 rd) at least, I can't speak for the newer CZ window mags, magpul or PSA mags.
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ThegreatcowLord of All BaconsWashington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered Userregular
Yeah I recall even with the stock release it required a bit of a pull. Here though it's stuck hard. I managed to finally get it out, but I basically have to be jamming the paddle up against the mag while jiggling the mag up and down and then pulling down hard to get it out of the magwell.
Yup time to find a new gunsmith, you can replace the mag release in just a couple of minutes at home for future reference. Also as a side note empty mags don't drop free on the scorpion, at least they don't on either of the two lowers I have for mine. Gotta do an MP5 style reload. Full or partial mags will however drop free. This is true of the OG smoked polymer mags (20 and 30 rd) at least, I can't speak for the newer CZ window mags, magpul or PSA mags.
Alright, so I bought my first pistol right before everything shut down and I got to fire it once and had a blast, I'm now thinking I want to get an AR this summer to have a rifle to shoot with. I've heard good things about the MP Sport as a starter rifle, any thoughts? My goal is to get something that's going to be fun to take to the range, can handle .223 and 5.56, and will be pretty reliable.
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ThegreatcowLord of All BaconsWashington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered Userregular
I've heard good things about the M&P Sport II as a starter rifle. Works solidly, is built well and is relatively cheap if you wan to get into ars. Only niggling point is some issues about parts compatibility if you want to upgrade things later on down the line (and you will want to upgrade your ar, it's like a honda civic in terms of parts availability) but otherwise, darn solid choice for a starter rifle.
For the most part, ARs are all parts compatible for the internals. When it comes to the .223/5.56 AR, there are some minor differences in the manufacture of receiver parts over time that can cause some issues e.g. some manufacturers included a "shelf" in the lower to prevent the use of a DIAS (Drop In Auto Sear). And sometimes the spec can be just slightly off between manufacturers.
The only trouble I've ever had was with a PSA upper and trying to fit it on different lowers. It absolutely would not fit on my Armalite lower, it would fit fairly well on a "boutique" manufacturer lower I have, and it took some hand fitting and a rubber mallet to get it to fit the 80% receiver I got for it.
When it comes to .308/7.62 ARs, however, generally there are two different specs: AR10 and LR-308/DPMS. But, there are other specs too including a Gen II DPMS pattern. You have to be more careful when buying parts for .308 ARs because largely the parts can be incompatible between different patterns.
I don't know much about the pistol caliber models because I've never owned one, so I'm not sure about parts compatibility between manufacturers.
DPMS Gen 2 never really caught on. There are rifles out there, and it's an interesting design, shortening the upper to be closer to an AR-15, but there's no aftermarket support for them. You can rarely find parts, and it's mostly from rifles people have parted out, along with some various bits that came out of DPMS being shut down. There's enough AR-10 pattern stuff out there that you can successfully put a rifle together, but there isn't the variety you can find for the LR-308/DPMS pattern. The only reason to go actual AR-10 is if you want a Stoner clone honestly. It doesn't have any benefits over the LR-308/DPMS pattern, while having harder to find parts. Building an LR-308/DPMS pattern rifle from parts only was just as easy as building an AR-15 when I did it, Midway and Brownells had everything I wanted aside from the barrel, and that was only because I wanted a DPMS SASS barrel and they were already hard to find at that point.
So long as you know what you're looking for it is fairly easy to find parts. I also built an LR-308/DPMS from an 80%. You just have to know that, at least I've encountered it online, "AR10" is used colloquially to refer to a .308 AR but that there is an actual AR10 spec that is different from the DPMS pattern.
The rise in popularity of 80% builds has also brought the cost floor down for owning a .308 AR. I think the cost in parts including the 80% receiver for mine, before optics, magazines, and cerakote, was roughly $450. That was with quite a bit of time spent catching parts on sales.
Is it better to build my first AR from parts vs buying a starter rifle? I think I'm sticking to the .223/5.56 for now.
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ThegreatcowLord of All BaconsWashington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered Userregular
edited May 2020
It heavily depends on a couple of factors. Assembling an AR isn't too technically difficult. You really need just a few basic tools like, screwdrivers, allen/hex wrenches, punches etc. And there's plenty of videos online that will walk you through the process step by step. The only part or section I'd honestly recommend buying pre-assembled is the barreled upper receiver. Mounting a barrel to the receiver and making sure the gas tube is perfectly installed requires a few specialized tools and a bench vise to properly get it snugged in there so that's one aspect I'd have a professional do imo, but it's up to you.
Building one out allows you to customize the rifle's aspects that are important to you. Most prebuilts will typically fall into a sort of "cost vs features" function that will keep growing as more and more various parts of the rifle get more specialized/high end. I would definitely go to a gun store and see if you can handle several of the pre-builts across a price range to see what paying more will get you. It basically boils down to how much you see yourself using the rifle and/or if you're using the rifle for a specific purpose and more importantly, your budget.
Generally as you go up in budget, the rifles will get lighter, have better triggers and other accessories, fancier barrels etc that generally only matter if you see yourself using the rifle regularly.
For me, I wanted to build my own because I like longer barrel ARs for precision bench shooting and those in the 22-24" barrel category are almost exclusively custom builds that get pricey very quickly.
These were the main things I wanted different than a standard 16" prebuilt and may be a few things to consider when or if you want to customize those things in the future:
Grip - Most prebuilts will use the simple polymer A2 grip as it's pretty standardized and dirt cheap since so many rifles across the world use it. I didn't like it because I felt it was too small for my big hands. I ended up going with an Ergo Tactical Deluxe Grip as it had a larger surface area and built in stippling for more grip.
Barrel - As mentioned earlier, I wanted a longer 22" minimum heavy barrel for long range target shooting.
Stock - The default M4 adjustable stock works pretty well, but when I was originally building my first ar, I was living in California which has a hissy-fit over adjustable stocks, so I ended up swapping it out for a heavier fixed Magpul PRS stock since it was going to be a precision rig anyway.
Trigger - This is probably the biggest thing you can upgrade on a standard rifle and can almost singlehandedly change its behavior and overall shooting behavior. The stock trigger most pre-builts use goes with a mil-spec pretty heavy pull and is kinda gritty in my experience. Certain prebuilts sometimes polish or improve this stock trigger to make it more comfortable to shoot, but the vast majority of pre-builts will use a pretty heavy/gritty trigger so that is something to consider. I ended up going with a Geissele SSA-E two stage trigger, but you most certainly don't have to spend that much for a trigger to get an improved experience. There's lots of trigger packs out there that will do the job.
So yeah kind of went on a long tangent there, but the long and the short of it is, if you don’t see yourself doing a lot of tinkering with your rifle and just want something you can take out of the box with minimal fuss, than a pre hilt is fine, but there is an element of satisfaction building your own brings you, and generally you will be overall happier with it if you customize it to suit your personal preferences
Is it better to build my first AR from parts vs buying a starter rifle? I think I'm sticking to the .223/5.56 for now.
I'd recommend not purchasing a completed rifle due to the markup (although there have been some good deals in the last 6 months). OTOH I'd recommend against a parts kit unless you're mechanically inclined.
Buy a complete upper BCM and LMT are both good midrange brands and a complete lower (Aero Precision is well-regarded, or Windham Weaponry)
Edit: I cross posted with Greatcow, and that man knows where his towel is.
SummaryJudgment on
Some days Blue wonders why anyone ever bothered making numbers so small; other days she supposes even infinity needs to start somewhere.
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SummaryJudgmentGrab the hottest iron you can find, stride in the Tower’s front doorRegistered Userregular
Actually, BCM and LMT are both way more expensive than I thought. Not sure what the value-to-quality sweet spot might be for completed uppers. PSA, maybe?
Some days Blue wonders why anyone ever bothered making numbers so small; other days she supposes even infinity needs to start somewhere.
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Giggles_FunsworthBlight on DiscourseBay Area SprawlRegistered Userregular
Actually, BCM and LMT are both way more expensive than I thought. Not sure what the value-to-quality sweet spot might be for completed uppers. PSA, maybe?
I've been super happy with the complete 10.5" AR-15 pistol I got from them last year for around $600; Romeo 5 included. It's nothing fancy but it's light, has a nice finish, a quality brace, everything works and my gun friends were all of the impression that there should be no compatibility issues; though the only thing I've done to it has been to add a foregrip and some ironsights.
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
I don't read this thread, or follow it in any way, actually the last time I was in this thread was when I got my .38 Special.
Gave me a laugh though, when I opened this page and saw people talking about the M1A, because I just put in an order for an M1A-A1 scout squad.
I bought an M&P Sport II shortly after they came out as my first AR and it's been perfect so far. Granted I don't do much beyond taking it to the range but still it's fired around 1K rounds flawlessly.
I don't read this thread, or follow it in any way, actually the last time I was in this thread was when I got my .38 Special.
Gave me a laugh though, when I opened this page and saw people talking about the M1A, because I just put in an order for an M1A-A1 scout squad.
I've been looking around at the various Scout concept rifles and every one I see is prettier than the last... and more expensive. Maybe not a huge issue because part of the reason I'm interested in the scout concept is I don't see myself owning more than one rifle, but still
What happens when you build a cheaper AR is, you slowly start to swap parts out for better ones, until you have several cheap AR parts laying around, and not wanting them to go to waste you build another cheap AR. Then you slowly start to swap parts out...
I say this as someone who bought a complete AR-47 upper and swapped the round handguard off it, then because I had that handguard bought a complete AR-15 upper and swapped its short aluminum Mlok handguard off for the round one to build an Mfaux, then because I had that handguard came up with an AR pistol build where I could fit the barrel and everything inside the handguard and have it be flush with the end.
What happens when you build a cheaper AR is, you slowly start to swap parts out for better ones, until you have several cheap AR parts laying around, and not wanting them to go to waste you build another cheap AR. Then you slowly start to swap parts out...
For Colonel Cooper, the function of the scout rifle was for personal defense especially against wildlife while in the field. So it needed to be reliable, hence manual bolt, accurate, quick to reload, and quick to get onto target. Ergo you get a manual bolt action, box magazine and/or stripper clip fed rifle with iron sights or a long eye relief low power optic and a good sling.
The famous Steyr Scout was a collab between Cooper and Steyr which is why it met the criteria so closely. IIRC in addition to a removable box magazine it can also feed from stripper clips.
If I could only have one gun, then for a certain all-'round outdoorsy philosophy-of-use I'd give the Steyr or Ruger Scout each a hard look, especially now that prices on the Steyr are more modest than when it first released. Tikka also has a similar rifle they sell to the Canadian Arctic patrols, and CZ has the 527 which is similarly short and handy
The real intended use case for those guns is being somewhere like southern Africa or Alaska where you have enough real-ass megafauna to worry about, and dense enough brush, that a light and short bolt-action rifle becomes truly handy for survivability while overlanding
the M1A Scout is mostly just termed so for the mix of caliber, shortened barrel, and the scope mounts being forward of the receiver, moreso than for actively pursuing the actual Cooper-determined yardsticks, but a few years ago that was definitely a big marketing thing
I like the scout rifle concept, but there is I think the possibility of building a semi auto rifle that would meet the same needs today.
If you want to go with a full size cartridge you can get a light AR in .308 with a ching sling set up and scout optic. But the SKS is I think a good candidate for a semi auto version of the concept. Or even the Mini 14 or 30. Or the hard to find 6.8 SPC model.
I picked up a Vortex scout a few months ago at an amazing price (iirc $60 refurbished) and have it on my Mini 14 right now. I want to get wood furniture for it and get it set up as something similar to what I think a semi auto scout rifle might be. But magazines are probably the biggest issue. I've not had many problems with aftermarket magazines but I wouldn't trust Promag with my life or limb. I have factory magazines but only a handful.
I think the advantage to keeping it at a full size cartridge chambered manual bolt action is that you can have a single rifle that does double duty: meant for taking game while also being able to defend against predators. You can do that with an AR but weight would be an issue if you're out in the field for extended periods. There are scout type optics out there with variable magnification that would allow you to use the higher end for taking game while using the lower end while moving in the field.
I ran the bolt as fast as I could at 100 yards with a 10 round magazine with my Scout. I didn’t time it but I didn’t need to.
They were all on target and it looked more like a shotgun spread than aimed fire, but I feel quite confident in its capability for accurate fire and fast follow-ups.
Pros: handles well, Mauser style bolt, lightweight, good irons and rail for optic mounting. I’ve got 5 shot groups with three holes touching and 2 not far away.
Cons: I don’t have more of them. I still haven’t figured out ammo it likes the best but I have dropped a hog on the move with it and it never got up, so practical accuracy is good. Further field testing on hogs is necessary to build confidence.
diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
The lightest prebuilt .308 AR I'm aware of is the POF DI Revolution, which is around 7.35 lbs with an unloaded magazine and before the scope
The Steyr and the polymer version of the Ruger are each around a pound and a half lighter
The weight advantage isn't quite as it huge as it might've been a decade ago, but it's still definitely there for those super long walking/patrolling scenarios (especially since an AR kit often begs for a larger amount of mags/ammo on hand)
Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
Would anyone here know anything about replacing tubular locks? I just got a free .99 cabinet that's got two tubular locks on it, and the top one is in need of replacement. There's no tag on the door or sides to ID the manufacturer, and some previous owner or another put padding on the insides, covering up any manufacturer IDs in there. The only place I didn't look was under the cabinet yet, and since now there's stuff in it-
-I'd rather not empty it all out again to tip it over.
The only markings that I can find are on the locks themselves-
- which I suppose should help me find a replacement.
I'm guessing that to get them out, after taking off the lockplate, all I have to do is break this nut loose and unscrew it?
It all seems fairly straight forward but since this is something I've never done before I'm in 'questions everything' mode.
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
Something I'm looking forward to doing with the M1A, when it gets here, is loading directly into the mag through the breech. I just get a kick out of when a weapon has multiple methods of being loaded.
Something I'm looking forward to doing with the M1A, when it gets here, is loading directly into the mag through the breech. I just get a kick out of when a weapon has multiple methods of being loaded.
Just a heads-up, the bolt stop on those can be pretty iffy. Be *really* careful jamming your fingers in there, and make sure the bolt release mechanism is absolutely rock-solid before you do so.
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
Something I'm looking forward to doing with the M1A, when it gets here, is loading directly into the mag through the breech. I just get a kick out of when a weapon has multiple methods of being loaded.
Just a heads-up, the bolt stop on those can be pretty iffy. Be *really* careful jamming your fingers in there, and make sure the bolt release mechanism is absolutely rock-solid before you do so.
That's the first thing that came to mind when I became aware of that function. I like having all of my finger tips. I want to try it a couple of times, being super safe about it, just to have a feel for it, but then it becomes the emergency option.
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SummaryJudgmentGrab the hottest iron you can find, stride in the Tower’s front doorRegistered Userregular
edited May 2020
Hey, anyone have anything in 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, or .224 Valkyrie? Some cool intermediate cartridges out there in the past years. Wolf even makes 6.5 for like 30 cents CPR.
.224 to my understanding is a sharper shouldered .223 for the extra powder throwing heavy .223 (i.e. 70-90 grains) where there other two are 120-grain stuff splitting .223 and .308?
There's also SIG'S .277 Fury, which just came out last year as their competitor to 6.8 SPC for the NGSW trials?
SummaryJudgment on
Some days Blue wonders why anyone ever bothered making numbers so small; other days she supposes even infinity needs to start somewhere.
All of the options proposed have points that seem like excessively fiddly attempts at reinventing the wheel as a way to raise prices, not unlike the F-35 jet
But the SIG is probably the least guilty of that, the bi-metallic case is the only thing super novel there, and might actually be decent with enough quality control
Posts
It's a typo, I meant to say an M1A/M14 is usually heavier than the already heavy M1, at least in my experience.
The M1A is usually more pleasant to shoot because the .308 doesn't recoil as much as .30-06, but both weapons are very heavy.
tl;dr wrt the M1A, most of the handling issues relative to a later-era carbine length battle rifle like an AR-10 or SCAR is that it's long and a lot of the weight is very far forward
Check everything and things start to look good. I take it back to my car and decide real quick to check the extended mag release I had installed as well since I realized I hadn't tested that part yet. Insert a mag, hear the click and everything sounds good until...
...the mag won't come out. I can't get the mag to release using the aftermarket paddle. The freaking smith didn't even check to see if he had installed the mag release correctly, despite me including a mag in the case for testing. I'm this close to asking for some refund on this because is frankly ridiculous and makes me wonder what else internally he fucked up (asked to do a trigger polish and installation as well on the carbine)
Wud yoo laek to lern aboot meatz? Look here!
Wud yoo laek to lern aboot meatz? Look here!
Wud yoo laek to lern aboot meatz? Look here!
Worked like a charm for me, all my mags drop free now. You can skip to 2 minutes in.
Wud yoo laek to lern aboot meatz? Look here!
The only trouble I've ever had was with a PSA upper and trying to fit it on different lowers. It absolutely would not fit on my Armalite lower, it would fit fairly well on a "boutique" manufacturer lower I have, and it took some hand fitting and a rubber mallet to get it to fit the 80% receiver I got for it.
When it comes to .308/7.62 ARs, however, generally there are two different specs: AR10 and LR-308/DPMS. But, there are other specs too including a Gen II DPMS pattern. You have to be more careful when buying parts for .308 ARs because largely the parts can be incompatible between different patterns.
I don't know much about the pistol caliber models because I've never owned one, so I'm not sure about parts compatibility between manufacturers.
The rise in popularity of 80% builds has also brought the cost floor down for owning a .308 AR. I think the cost in parts including the 80% receiver for mine, before optics, magazines, and cerakote, was roughly $450. That was with quite a bit of time spent catching parts on sales.
Building one out allows you to customize the rifle's aspects that are important to you. Most prebuilts will typically fall into a sort of "cost vs features" function that will keep growing as more and more various parts of the rifle get more specialized/high end. I would definitely go to a gun store and see if you can handle several of the pre-builts across a price range to see what paying more will get you. It basically boils down to how much you see yourself using the rifle and/or if you're using the rifle for a specific purpose and more importantly, your budget.
Generally as you go up in budget, the rifles will get lighter, have better triggers and other accessories, fancier barrels etc that generally only matter if you see yourself using the rifle regularly.
For me, I wanted to build my own because I like longer barrel ARs for precision bench shooting and those in the 22-24" barrel category are almost exclusively custom builds that get pricey very quickly.
These were the main things I wanted different than a standard 16" prebuilt and may be a few things to consider when or if you want to customize those things in the future:
Grip - Most prebuilts will use the simple polymer A2 grip as it's pretty standardized and dirt cheap since so many rifles across the world use it. I didn't like it because I felt it was too small for my big hands. I ended up going with an Ergo Tactical Deluxe Grip as it had a larger surface area and built in stippling for more grip.
Barrel - As mentioned earlier, I wanted a longer 22" minimum heavy barrel for long range target shooting.
Stock - The default M4 adjustable stock works pretty well, but when I was originally building my first ar, I was living in California which has a hissy-fit over adjustable stocks, so I ended up swapping it out for a heavier fixed Magpul PRS stock since it was going to be a precision rig anyway.
Trigger - This is probably the biggest thing you can upgrade on a standard rifle and can almost singlehandedly change its behavior and overall shooting behavior. The stock trigger most pre-builts use goes with a mil-spec pretty heavy pull and is kinda gritty in my experience. Certain prebuilts sometimes polish or improve this stock trigger to make it more comfortable to shoot, but the vast majority of pre-builts will use a pretty heavy/gritty trigger so that is something to consider. I ended up going with a Geissele SSA-E two stage trigger, but you most certainly don't have to spend that much for a trigger to get an improved experience. There's lots of trigger packs out there that will do the job.
So yeah kind of went on a long tangent there, but the long and the short of it is, if you don’t see yourself doing a lot of tinkering with your rifle and just want something you can take out of the box with minimal fuss, than a pre hilt is fine, but there is an element of satisfaction building your own brings you, and generally you will be overall happier with it if you customize it to suit your personal preferences
Wud yoo laek to lern aboot meatz? Look here!
I'd recommend not purchasing a completed rifle due to the markup (although there have been some good deals in the last 6 months). OTOH I'd recommend against a parts kit unless you're mechanically inclined.
Buy a complete upper BCM and LMT are both good midrange brands and a complete lower (Aero Precision is well-regarded, or Windham Weaponry)
Edit: I cross posted with Greatcow, and that man knows where his towel is.
I've been super happy with the complete 10.5" AR-15 pistol I got from them last year for around $600; Romeo 5 included. It's nothing fancy but it's light, has a nice finish, a quality brace, everything works and my gun friends were all of the impression that there should be no compatibility issues; though the only thing I've done to it has been to add a foregrip and some ironsights.
Gave me a laugh though, when I opened this page and saw people talking about the M1A, because I just put in an order for an M1A-A1 scout squad.
I've been looking around at the various Scout concept rifles and every one I see is prettier than the last... and more expensive. Maybe not a huge issue because part of the reason I'm interested in the scout concept is I don't see myself owning more than one rifle, but still
This is the reproductive cycle of ARs.
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3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
The concept was originally for bolt actions, if I remember correctly
The famous Steyr Scout was a collab between Cooper and Steyr which is why it met the criteria so closely. IIRC in addition to a removable box magazine it can also feed from stripper clips.
It’s a fucking tank. And it’s my only left handed rifle
The real intended use case for those guns is being somewhere like southern Africa or Alaska where you have enough real-ass megafauna to worry about, and dense enough brush, that a light and short bolt-action rifle becomes truly handy for survivability while overlanding
the M1A Scout is mostly just termed so for the mix of caliber, shortened barrel, and the scope mounts being forward of the receiver, moreso than for actively pursuing the actual Cooper-determined yardsticks, but a few years ago that was definitely a big marketing thing
If you want to go with a full size cartridge you can get a light AR in .308 with a ching sling set up and scout optic. But the SKS is I think a good candidate for a semi auto version of the concept. Or even the Mini 14 or 30. Or the hard to find 6.8 SPC model.
I picked up a Vortex scout a few months ago at an amazing price (iirc $60 refurbished) and have it on my Mini 14 right now. I want to get wood furniture for it and get it set up as something similar to what I think a semi auto scout rifle might be. But magazines are probably the biggest issue. I've not had many problems with aftermarket magazines but I wouldn't trust Promag with my life or limb. I have factory magazines but only a handful.
I think the advantage to keeping it at a full size cartridge chambered manual bolt action is that you can have a single rifle that does double duty: meant for taking game while also being able to defend against predators. You can do that with an AR but weight would be an issue if you're out in the field for extended periods. There are scout type optics out there with variable magnification that would allow you to use the higher end for taking game while using the lower end while moving in the field.
They were all on target and it looked more like a shotgun spread than aimed fire, but I feel quite confident in its capability for accurate fire and fast follow-ups.
Pros: handles well, Mauser style bolt, lightweight, good irons and rail for optic mounting. I’ve got 5 shot groups with three holes touching and 2 not far away.
Cons: I don’t have more of them. I still haven’t figured out ammo it likes the best but I have dropped a hog on the move with it and it never got up, so practical accuracy is good. Further field testing on hogs is necessary to build confidence.
The Steyr and the polymer version of the Ruger are each around a pound and a half lighter
The weight advantage isn't quite as it huge as it might've been a decade ago, but it's still definitely there for those super long walking/patrolling scenarios (especially since an AR kit often begs for a larger amount of mags/ammo on hand)
-I'd rather not empty it all out again to tip it over.
The only markings that I can find are on the locks themselves-
- which I suppose should help me find a replacement.
I'm guessing that to get them out, after taking off the lockplate, all I have to do is break this nut loose and unscrew it?
It all seems fairly straight forward but since this is something I've never done before I'm in 'questions everything' mode.
Just a heads-up, the bolt stop on those can be pretty iffy. Be *really* careful jamming your fingers in there, and make sure the bolt release mechanism is absolutely rock-solid before you do so.
That's the first thing that came to mind when I became aware of that function. I like having all of my finger tips. I want to try it a couple of times, being super safe about it, just to have a feel for it, but then it becomes the emergency option.
.224 to my understanding is a sharper shouldered .223 for the extra powder throwing heavy .223 (i.e. 70-90 grains) where there other two are 120-grain stuff splitting .223 and .308?
There's also SIG'S .277 Fury, which just came out last year as their competitor to 6.8 SPC for the NGSW trials?
SIGs is a weird steel, GD has Polymer cased round, and Textron has a telescoping polymer case round.
But the SIG is probably the least guilty of that, the bi-metallic case is the only thing super novel there, and might actually be decent with enough quality control