Everything I've read has boiled down to "Obamacare is imperfect but doing fine. Some tweaks could fix fringe cases and shore up any issues, but it's nowhere near collapsing."
That's not entirely accurate. The exchanges are in pretty big trouble in a couple of states, for various reasons including corporations acting contrary to the interests of the public and states not expanding their medicaid insurance pools. Nevertheless, some states risk a situation where there are zero insurers willing to sell insurance on the exchange. That will be a huge problem.
Everything I've read has boiled down to "Obamacare is imperfect but doing fine. Some tweaks could fix fringe cases and shore up any issues, but it's nowhere near collapsing."
That's not entirely accurate. The exchanges are in pretty big trouble in a couple of states, for various reasons including corporations acting contrary to the interests of the public and states not expanding their medicaid insurance pools. Nevertheless, some states risk a situation where there are zero insurers willing to sell insurance on the exchange. That will be a huge problem.
Are there any states that did not expand their medicad insurance pools... and had a Democratic state legislature and governor?
A legitimate question, because I don't have a full list on me but I definitely know some states run by Republican legislatures deliberately chose not to accept benefits in order to make constituents there feel like the ACA wasn't working well.
Waffles or whateverPreviously known as, I shit you not, "Waffen"Registered Userregular
Relatively positive that Trump is still angry that he lost the first ACA battle and that he wants to try to spotlight the issue, use it as leverage, and in his mind present it as a "win" on his 100th day when he does his fan wank rally on Saturday. Realistically, we know that it won't pass as the issue is currently dead, but Donald thinks differently than the rest of us.
More plausible is Donald shuts the government down this week demanding ACA repeal and money to build his wall with the majority of both parties saying vetoing his proposed plan and his fan wank rally becomes a, "We did it! We destroyed the government" rally.
Everything I've read has boiled down to "Obamacare is imperfect but doing fine. Some tweaks could fix fringe cases and shore up any issues, but it's nowhere near collapsing."
That's not entirely accurate. The exchanges are in pretty big trouble in a couple of states, for various reasons including corporations acting contrary to the interests of the public and states not expanding their medicaid insurance pools. Nevertheless, some states risk a situation where there are zero insurers willing to sell insurance on the exchange. That will be a huge problem.
I know there are a handful of counties with 0 insurers, but I don't know of any States heading that way. Just a single insurer, which is problematic for all the usual monopoly reasons, but since subsidies are tied to premiums it mostly just harms the budget rather than people.
Everything I've read has boiled down to "Obamacare is imperfect but doing fine. Some tweaks could fix fringe cases and shore up any issues, but it's nowhere near collapsing."
That's not entirely accurate. The exchanges are in pretty big trouble in a couple of states, for various reasons including corporations acting contrary to the interests of the public and states not expanding their medicaid insurance pools. Nevertheless, some states risk a situation where there are zero insurers willing to sell insurance on the exchange. That will be a huge problem.
Are there any states that did not expand their medicad insurance pools... and had a Democratic state legislature and governor?
A legitimate question, because I don't have a full list on me but I definitely know some states run by Republican legislatures deliberately chose not to accept benefits in order to make constituents there feel like the ACA wasn't working well.
Kansas, Maine, Nebraska, and Wisconsin will probably expand after 2018 with new governors.
I sure hope walker loses next year, however we still wont expand medicaid because the Republicans have eliminated democracy in Wisconsin for statehouse and congressional elections
we need something like 60% of the vote to get a 51% majority in the assembly
We'll see how elections do in Virginia this year as well. I know there is opposition for medicaid expansion in the Senate, which is controlled by Republicans, but if the GOP gets decimated in the House of Delegate races and for the three state wide elections (Governor, Lt Governor and Attorney General). Then medicaid expansion might happen in 2018; especially, if the party continues to take a beating at the national level over this issue.
Everything I've read has boiled down to "Obamacare is imperfect but doing fine. Some tweaks could fix fringe cases and shore up any issues, but it's nowhere near collapsing."
That's not entirely accurate. The exchanges are in pretty big trouble in a couple of states, for various reasons including corporations acting contrary to the interests of the public and states not expanding their medicaid insurance pools. Nevertheless, some states risk a situation where there are zero insurers willing to sell insurance on the exchange. That will be a huge problem.
Which falls under "they [the GOP and/or states in question] could fix it" which I commented on at the end of the last page.
The original point was made against a tweet that is obviously painting with a broad brush. The issues noted are (OFTEN) either intentional or not being resolved intentionally.
The ACA is imperfect, but its imperfections are being amplified by those who resisted it being implemented in the first place, and have been trying to kill it for something approaching a decade. From my perspective, that's not the ACA's fault, but that of those who see those gaps and fringe cases and say "yup, this is fine" instead of doing something about it. It's working for millions, and it could work for more (or they could implement AHCA and watch millions lose their insurance over the next few years).
So Trump is indeed being disingenuous at the very least, and he and his admin are far from getting benefit of the doubt. Especially since their attempts lately might as well just be 'repeal and go fuck yourself', at least in spirit based on the damage they would do.
Which reminds me I really need to get one of those shirts when they're back in stock at the Crooked Media online store.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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HakkekageSpace Whore Academysumma cum laudeRegistered Userregular
Everything I've read has boiled down to "Obamacare is imperfect but doing fine. Some tweaks could fix fringe cases and shore up any issues, but it's nowhere near collapsing."
That's not entirely accurate. The exchanges are in pretty big trouble in a couple of states, for various reasons including corporations acting contrary to the interests of the public and states not expanding their medicaid insurance pools. Nevertheless, some states risk a situation where there are zero insurers willing to sell insurance on the exchange. That will be a huge problem.
Which falls under "they [the GOP and/or states in question] could fix it" which I commented on at the end of the last page.
The original point was made against a tweet that is obviously painting with a broad brush. The issues noted are (OFTEN) either intentional or not being resolved intentionally.
The ACA is imperfect, but its imperfections are being amplified by those who resisted it being implemented in the first place, and have been trying to kill it for something approaching a decade. From my perspective, that's not the ACA's fault, but that of those who see those gaps and fringe cases and say "yup, this is fine" instead of doing something about it. It's working for millions, and it could work for more (or they could implement AHCA and watch millions lose their insurance over the next few years).
So Trump is indeed being disingenuous at the very least, and he and his admin are far from getting benefit of the doubt. Especially since their attempts lately might as well just be 'repeal and go fuck yourself', at least in spirit based on the damage they would do.
Which reminds me I really need to get one of those shirts when they're back in stock at the Crooked Media online store.
Also, we're back to "Twitter is awful, and the US President uses it as a primary means of communicating with people (badly)".
He didn't say "Obamacare has a few cracks that could do with shoring up, and we have a plan that will actively minimize those detriments while improving health care and outcomes for millions with a few easily implemented and relatively painless steps".
He said, and I quote: "ObamaCare is in serious trouble. The Dems need big money to keep it going - otherwise it dies far sooner than anyone would have thought."
That's not a nuanced take.
It's fearmongering.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Trump could be lying or he doesn't know what the ACA money being talked about is and thinks it is new, extra cash.
Either way he seems to think people will blame the Democrats for any ACA problems.
He's not lying. He's promising to gut it if Dems don't give him some concessions elsewhere.
Maybe they should call the bluff and bluster? $10B for the wall, matched by $10B for additional healthcare spending, with the provision that if the wall isn't completed, on or under budget, that $10B in tax increases on the richest 0.01% is used to cover it. He can secure up to an additional $5B to complete it, but each dollar increased there, is two dollars towards additional healthcare.
And as an additional carrot, any money returned from Mexico to pay for the wall, can be used to fund tax cuts for the richest 0.01%.
I mean, if he SAYS it's going to be less than $10B, how is this not a slam dunk?
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Waffles or whateverPreviously known as, I shit you not, "Waffen"Registered Userregular
Trump could be lying or he doesn't know what the ACA money being talked about is and thinks it is new, extra cash.
Either way he seems to think people will blame the Democrats for any ACA problems.
He's not lying. He's promising to gut it if Dems don't give him some concessions elsewhere.
Maybe they should call the bluff and bluster? $10B for the wall, matched by $10B for additional healthcare spending, with the provision that if the wall isn't completed, on or under budget, that $10B in tax increases on the richest 0.01% is used to cover it. He can secure up to an additional $5B to complete it, but each dollar increased there, is two dollars towards additional healthcare.
And as an additional carrot, any money returned from Mexico to pay for the wall, can be used to fund tax cuts for the richest 0.01%.
I mean, if he SAYS it's going to be less than $10B, how is this not a slam dunk?
Political stuff doesn't work like contracts where you can sue if things don't go how they're supposed to. The outcome would be the Dems giving Trump their side of the bargain and then the Republicans ignore everything they promised.
Trump could be lying or he doesn't know what the ACA money being talked about is and thinks it is new, extra cash.
Either way he seems to think people will blame the Democrats for any ACA problems.
He's not lying. He's promising to gut it if Dems don't give him some concessions elsewhere.
Maybe they should call the bluff and bluster? $10B for the wall, matched by $10B for additional healthcare spending, with the provision that if the wall isn't completed, on or under budget, that $10B in tax increases on the richest 0.01% is used to cover it. He can secure up to an additional $5B to complete it, but each dollar increased there, is two dollars towards additional healthcare.
And as an additional carrot, any money returned from Mexico to pay for the wall, can be used to fund tax cuts for the richest 0.01%.
I mean, if he SAYS it's going to be less than $10B, how is this not a slam dunk?
Because you don't deal with a pathological liar, especially when your end of the deal involves doing something as terrible as supporting the wall
I'm not saying take it on faith, or as a promise. It'd need to be written into the budget, and if it's not there, then the Democrats get to vote against it. If it is there, and the R's can renege, then what's the point of even having a budget? And they get to hammer Republicans on both being liars, and denying healthcare, all for a Trump boondoggle.
I'm all for Democrats not taking Republicans at their word. And opposing things out of principle. But if you can't codify into the budget an agreement like that, then seriously, what's the point? Just burn it all down, because partisanship will never end, and there'll never be a middle ground or any form of reconstruction.
Trump could be lying or he doesn't know what the ACA money being talked about is and thinks it is new, extra cash.
Either way he seems to think people will blame the Democrats for any ACA problems.
He's not lying. He's promising to gut it if Dems don't give him some concessions elsewhere.
Maybe they should call the bluff and bluster? $10B for the wall, matched by $10B for additional healthcare spending, with the provision that if the wall isn't completed, on or under budget, that $10B in tax increases on the richest 0.01% is used to cover it. He can secure up to an additional $5B to complete it, but each dollar increased there, is two dollars towards additional healthcare.
And as an additional carrot, any money returned from Mexico to pay for the wall, can be used to fund tax cuts for the richest 0.01%.
I mean, if he SAYS it's going to be less than $10B, how is this not a slam dunk?
Nah. Dems should refuse to dignify the wall with even token acceptance. Opposing the wall shouldn't be a fiscal issue, it should be a moral issue. The wall has always been pitched as a multibillion dollar monument to racism and xenophobia, and as soon as you start offering to fund it, even as calling a bluff, you cede the moral high ground.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
I'm not saying take it on faith, or as a promise. It'd need to be written into the budget, and if it's not there, then the Democrats get to vote against it. If it is there, and the R's can renege, then what's the point of even having a budget? And they get to hammer Republicans on both being liars, and denying healthcare, all for a Trump boondoggle.
I'm all for Democrats not taking Republicans at their word. And opposing things out of principle. But if you can't codify into the budget an agreement like that, then seriously, what's the point? Just burn it all down, because partisanship will never end, and there'll never be a middle ground or any form of reconstruction.
The president has lied on the campaign trail and while in office and as a businessman. It's an empty promise that doesn't gain them any voters from the GOP base and actively makes the Democratic base hate them. Partisanship ends when the voting population rewards bipartisanship.
Just like for the ACHA, the budget has to be brought to a vote or else the narrative of blaming the Democrats falls apart. You can't complain about a party that can't bring up a bill to vote in either the House or the Senate for shutting down the government.
Deep-pocketed conservative groups that helped fuel the downfall of the House GOP’s Obamacare alternative are now quietly signaling they won’t oppose the White House’s renewed push to pass the bill.
Some of the most influential — and usually loudest — groups have privately told conservatives they want to see a deal go through, according to several people familiar with the conversations.
The fundamental problem for Republicans is that people don't want to lose their insurance, but unless Republicans are going to go even further into socializing healthcare, any conservative "solution" will necessarily cause the number of insured to go down.
They are ignoring this because they've been lying, fearmongering, and blustering about the ACA and repealing it for so long that now they have to, but they won't then take the steps necessary to keep the electorate from immediately hating their guts for basically sentencing people to die because replacing it with anything equally or more functional is socialism.
This dance was amusing at first, because it's always cathartic to watch liars squirm, but now it's just enraging. These silly geese have been honking about doing this for years now, and when it comes time to deliver, suddenly nobody has any good ideas? Maybe stop playing arbitrary ideals chicken with people's lives.
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Mx. QuillI now prefer "Myr. Quill", actually...{They/Them}Registered Userregular
edited April 2017
I really want people to start screaming, "Why would you ever make deals with the GOP and Trump?!" at Dems. Like, seriously. Everyone outside of that megalomaniacal cult KNOWS that Trump is full of shit!
Any Dem that concedes on killing the ACA in favor of whatever half-baked fuckup Trump's cronies cook up needs to be run against by someone who's entire campain is "This asshole helped kill countless people by denying them healthcare. I will not. Cause that's negligence, if not murder."
I really want people to start screaming, "Why would you ever make deals with the GOP and Trump?!" at Dems. Like, seriously. Everyone outside of that megalomaniacal cult KNOWS that Trump is full of shit!
Any Dem that concedes on killing the ACA in favor of whatever half-baked fuckup Trump's cronies cook up needs to be run against by someone who's entire campain is "This asshole helped kill countless people by denying them healthcare. I will not. Cause that's negligence, if not murder."
Plus, dems are the opposition. The job of the opposition is to vote "no". It's not that hard, every parties around here gets it.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
To be fair, no dem has indicated they are interested in playing ball.
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Mx. QuillI now prefer "Myr. Quill", actually...{They/Them}Registered Userregular
I suppose I defaulted to assuming some Dems were when I read the bit about some conservatives willing to repeal the ACA for no good reason.
My mistake, but the feeling still stands: don't concede to these monsters lest you become one of them.
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
I feel like we need an infograpfic of "How many times YOUR Representative voted to Repeal Obamacare vs How many plans they have submitted to offer a replacement"
I like to think I have some relatives that would at least consider booting their congresscritter on the "All talk, no action" front
I feel like we need an infograpfic of "How many times YOUR Representative voted to Repeal Obamacare vs How many plans they have submitted to offer a replacement"
I like to think I have some relatives that would at least consider booting their congresscritter on the "All talk, no action" front
They love passing the buck on that. Saying "I'll decide on voting on something when I have something to vote on, until it's on the floor I can't comment on it because it's still being worked on"
So unless you're one of those unnamed individuals who is actually drafting it...
I mean, it might believe it. But that doesn't really matter.
As there currently is no healthcare plan written by the GOP after the AHCA exploded on contact with the air outside Ryan's office, I'm pretty sure he's just talking nonsense as usual.
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IlpalaJust this guy, y'knowTexasRegistered Userregular
It also might be true just because yea you can afford to give healthcare with premiums of $50 when you don't have to cover jack shit.
FF XIV - Qih'to Furishu (on Siren), Battle.Net - Ilpala#1975
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Fuck Joe Manchin
It also might be true just because yea you can afford to give healthcare with premiums of $50 when you don't have to cover jack shit.
I would love a premium of $50 that didn't cover anything. I have a premium of $400 that realistically doesn't cover anything right now so that'd be a net improvement. (California, Blue Shield if you're wondering).
If our healthcare plan is approved, you will see real healthcare and premiums will start tumbling down. ObamaCare is in a death spiral!
It is not necessarily a lie if they limp something out like their previous attempt and if somehow they say to hell with it and let it pass reconciliation largely intact there may be some lowering of premiums simply because people could opt back into insurance plans that basically don't cover anything again. Those who actually need working insurance however are going to take it up the tailpipe and watch their costs shoot up.
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Giggles_FunsworthBlight on DiscourseBay Area SprawlRegistered Userregular
It also might be true just because yea you can afford to give healthcare with premiums of $50 when you don't have to cover jack shit.
I would love a premium of $50 that didn't cover anything. I have a premium of $400 that realistically doesn't cover anything right now so that'd be a net improvement. (California, Blue Shield if you're wondering).
Posts
That's not entirely accurate. The exchanges are in pretty big trouble in a couple of states, for various reasons including corporations acting contrary to the interests of the public and states not expanding their medicaid insurance pools. Nevertheless, some states risk a situation where there are zero insurers willing to sell insurance on the exchange. That will be a huge problem.
Are there any states that did not expand their medicad insurance pools... and had a Democratic state legislature and governor?
A legitimate question, because I don't have a full list on me but I definitely know some states run by Republican legislatures deliberately chose not to accept benefits in order to make constituents there feel like the ACA wasn't working well.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
More plausible is Donald shuts the government down this week demanding ACA repeal and money to build his wall with the majority of both parties saying vetoing his proposed plan and his fan wank rally becomes a, "We did it! We destroyed the government" rally.
I know there are a handful of counties with 0 insurers, but I don't know of any States heading that way. Just a single insurer, which is problematic for all the usual monopoly reasons, but since subsidies are tied to premiums it mostly just harms the budget rather than people.
Kansas, Maine, Nebraska, and Wisconsin will probably expand after 2018 with new governors.
we need something like 60% of the vote to get a 51% majority in the assembly
http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/2017/04/21/gov-matt-bevins-likely-medicaid-shake-up-scares-kentucky-patients/100113996/
Remember when these people complained about the nanny state?
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
Which falls under "they [the GOP and/or states in question] could fix it" which I commented on at the end of the last page.
The original point was made against a tweet that is obviously painting with a broad brush. The issues noted are (OFTEN) either intentional or not being resolved intentionally.
The ACA is imperfect, but its imperfections are being amplified by those who resisted it being implemented in the first place, and have been trying to kill it for something approaching a decade. From my perspective, that's not the ACA's fault, but that of those who see those gaps and fringe cases and say "yup, this is fine" instead of doing something about it. It's working for millions, and it could work for more (or they could implement AHCA and watch millions lose their insurance over the next few years).
So Trump is indeed being disingenuous at the very least, and he and his admin are far from getting benefit of the doubt. Especially since their attempts lately might as well just be 'repeal and go fuck yourself', at least in spirit based on the damage they would do.
Which reminds me I really need to get one of those shirts when they're back in stock at the Crooked Media online store.
Healthcare more like
More like
WEALTHCARE :cool: *air horn* AYYYYYYYyyy
NNID: Hakkekage
He didn't say "Obamacare has a few cracks that could do with shoring up, and we have a plan that will actively minimize those detriments while improving health care and outcomes for millions with a few easily implemented and relatively painless steps".
He said, and I quote: "ObamaCare is in serious trouble. The Dems need big money to keep it going - otherwise it dies far sooner than anyone would have thought."
That's not a nuanced take.
It's fearmongering.
He's not lying. He's promising to gut it if Dems don't give him some concessions elsewhere.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Maybe they should call the bluff and bluster? $10B for the wall, matched by $10B for additional healthcare spending, with the provision that if the wall isn't completed, on or under budget, that $10B in tax increases on the richest 0.01% is used to cover it. He can secure up to an additional $5B to complete it, but each dollar increased there, is two dollars towards additional healthcare.
And as an additional carrot, any money returned from Mexico to pay for the wall, can be used to fund tax cuts for the richest 0.01%.
I mean, if he SAYS it's going to be less than $10B, how is this not a slam dunk?
That's fine. Its political suicide at this point for him and the GOP to touch it at this point.
Political stuff doesn't work like contracts where you can sue if things don't go how they're supposed to. The outcome would be the Dems giving Trump their side of the bargain and then the Republicans ignore everything they promised.
Because you don't deal with a pathological liar, especially when your end of the deal involves doing something as terrible as supporting the wall
I'm all for Democrats not taking Republicans at their word. And opposing things out of principle. But if you can't codify into the budget an agreement like that, then seriously, what's the point? Just burn it all down, because partisanship will never end, and there'll never be a middle ground or any form of reconstruction.
No republican should either because it is the definition of a goddamn boondoggle.
Nah. Dems should refuse to dignify the wall with even token acceptance. Opposing the wall shouldn't be a fiscal issue, it should be a moral issue. The wall has always been pitched as a multibillion dollar monument to racism and xenophobia, and as soon as you start offering to fund it, even as calling a bluff, you cede the moral high ground.
The president has lied on the campaign trail and while in office and as a businessman. It's an empty promise that doesn't gain them any voters from the GOP base and actively makes the Democratic base hate them. Partisanship ends when the voting population rewards bipartisanship.
Just like for the ACHA, the budget has to be brought to a vote or else the narrative of blaming the Democrats falls apart. You can't complain about a party that can't bring up a bill to vote in either the House or the Senate for shutting down the government.
Conservative groups open to new Obamacare repeal push
What kind of deal?
A good deal?
What would a good deal look like?
*crickets*
If you do what he wants, he will in exchange also do what he wants.
They are ignoring this because they've been lying, fearmongering, and blustering about the ACA and repealing it for so long that now they have to, but they won't then take the steps necessary to keep the electorate from immediately hating their guts for basically sentencing people to die because replacing it with anything equally or more functional is socialism.
This dance was amusing at first, because it's always cathartic to watch liars squirm, but now it's just enraging. These silly geese have been honking about doing this for years now, and when it comes time to deliver, suddenly nobody has any good ideas? Maybe stop playing arbitrary ideals chicken with people's lives.
Any Dem that concedes on killing the ACA in favor of whatever half-baked fuckup Trump's cronies cook up needs to be run against by someone who's entire campain is "This asshole helped kill countless people by denying them healthcare. I will not. Cause that's negligence, if not murder."
then he calls you an asshole on twitter anyway
Plus, dems are the opposition. The job of the opposition is to vote "no". It's not that hard, every parties around here gets it.
My mistake, but the feeling still stands: don't concede to these monsters lest you become one of them.
I like to think I have some relatives that would at least consider booting their congresscritter on the "All talk, no action" front
They love passing the buck on that. Saying "I'll decide on voting on something when I have something to vote on, until it's on the floor I can't comment on it because it's still being worked on"
So unless you're one of those unnamed individuals who is actually drafting it...
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
As there currently is no healthcare plan written by the GOP after the AHCA exploded on contact with the air outside Ryan's office, I'm pretty sure he's just talking nonsense as usual.
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
I would love a premium of $50 that didn't cover anything. I have a premium of $400 that realistically doesn't cover anything right now so that'd be a net improvement. (California, Blue Shield if you're wondering).
It is not necessarily a lie if they limp something out like their previous attempt and if somehow they say to hell with it and let it pass reconciliation largely intact there may be some lowering of premiums simply because people could opt back into insurance plans that basically don't cover anything again. Those who actually need working insurance however are going to take it up the tailpipe and watch their costs shoot up.
I'm having a hard time believing this.