Etrian Odyssey: Nexus - When your cat is an absolute unit.

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  • KoldanarKoldanar Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Masurao can bind all, Rover has explicit leg/arm bind skills and may have a head bind active for hawk.

    I was shooting for someone with hit action - head bind, instead of the random whatever bind then have.
    TamerBill wrote: »
    Hawk-spec Rovers have Aerial Talons, which has the same head-bind rate as the Pugilist's Concussion.

    Already have my rover hound, so I don't have room for it.

    Shoot, sounds like I should either settle with the chance for bind (or items) or just live with the Pugilist. I'm having trouble using them though - as far as I can see, the strategy here for Impact is hit the enemy with as many binds as you can, add paralyze, then the follow up attack, then the attack that builds of the # of hits from the last round - is that right?

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  • l_gl_g Registered User regular
    When Pugilists trigger their multiple ability One Two, can Fencers chase each hit of it?

    Can Fencers chase another Fencer's chase?

    Can Fencers chase Fencer counter-attacks?

    When you use the Necromancer's fire bomb ability that sacrifices a summon, does that damage get enhanced by the elemental line buff from Warlocks?

    I am generally amused by the fact that Humans are the most durable race in EO5, which is atypical for the generic fantasy setting.

    Cole's Law: "Thinly sliced cabbage."
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Koldanar wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Masurao can bind all, Rover has explicit leg/arm bind skills and may have a head bind active for hawk.

    I was shooting for someone with hit action - head bind, instead of the random whatever bind then have.
    TamerBill wrote: »
    Hawk-spec Rovers have Aerial Talons, which has the same head-bind rate as the Pugilist's Concussion.

    Already have my rover hound, so I don't have room for it.

    Shoot, sounds like I should either settle with the chance for bind (or items) or just live with the Pugilist. I'm having trouble using them though - as far as I can see, the strategy here for Impact is hit the enemy with as many binds as you can, add paralyze, then the follow up attack, then the attack that builds of the # of hits from the last round - is that right?

    Therians also have a burst skill that makes all attacks attempt random binds for the turn.

    The masurao bind skill, iirc, tries binds in a set order, so it's not "roll to inflict random bind" but "roll for the first one not there, if that fails try the next, etc".

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  • l_gl_g Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    "Therians also have a burst skill that makes all attacks attempt random binds for the turn."

    Does this apply to attacks from Unions invoked by other characters in the party?

    Oh wait no that would drain the Union gauge, never mind!

    l_g on
    Cole's Law: "Thinly sliced cabbage."
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    One cute thing about the union gauge I noticed? Only the initiating unit needs a full meter. The rest can have any amount it seems.

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  • TamerBillTamerBill Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    One cute thing about the union gauge I noticed? Only the initiating unit needs a full meter. The rest can have any amount it seems.

    Yeah, there's strategy there in using up small Unions until only one guy has 100% left before doing a big 5-man Union.

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  • FrozenzenFrozenzen Registered User regular
    TamerBill wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    One cute thing about the union gauge I noticed? Only the initiating unit needs a full meter. The rest can have any amount it seems.

    Yeah, there's strategy there in using up small Unions until only one guy has 100% left before doing a big 5-man Union.

    My usual boss opener is turn 1 black mist using 4 gauges, and turn 2 chain blast burning the last one. Usually gives me a couple of free turns for easy damage.

  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    I have no idea if this is real but if it is.

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  • OrphaneOrphane All that remains Registered User regular
    There's actually a lot of that stuff

    A quest is called "spooky scary skeletons", for one

    PLA
  • TakelTakel Registered User regular
    Wandering around in the third stratum now and I did a swap out of my team (thanks to the exp DLC which preserved my OCPD tendencies to try to keep the party levels equal. However stupid it is to try) so the Botanist was replaced by a Shaman.

    I think I may need to change my team composition later as I'm seeing a major hole in my team, which is ailment/bind mitigation. At the moment, I'm running a Divine Punisher Shaman, however swapping it to the healing oriented version will majorly stabilise the team against ailments/binds as well as provide a stupid amount of healing capabilities but at a pretty significant guaranteed cost of my Warlock's damage potential because I was betting on making use of Dance Oracle + Common Magic to add two 50% damage modifiers with a focus chant to get spell casts in the 1400-1800% range. Or course, a healing spec shaman can still use Dance Oracle, but it's guaranteed to be a 2 turn thing as divine punishers have a passive that gives them a 50% chance to reapply any buffs they lose as a result of their abilities.

    For now, it's fine, though it's an option that I have to keep in mind if ailments and bind prevention is something I need more of. And when I do make that switch, I may as well pop the Rover over to an Earthlain because it's focusing more on binds and other luck based abilities rather than focusing on raw damage, which the Masurao and Warlock will have covered.

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  • l_gl_g Registered User regular
    The one thing I'm not particularly thrilled with is that the Botanist's job is literally casting Heal, so far in the game. Occasionally, I cast the status ailment cleaner.
    If it weren't for the field skills, which really do help give your party members identities in the adventure as adventurers, the Botanist feels like a character that literally doesn't do much.

    One of the things I really liked in EO3 is that the classes with healing abilities like the Sovereign and the Monk had lots of other abilities, or encouraged you to play with particular objectives in order to maximize the healing (e.g. keeping the Sovereign at full HP results in healing for your party). The Botanist so far is literally just a "Heal" button. The War Magus of EO2 is also more "fun" than the Medic, even if it's less effective as an actual healer.

    I want to have a Shaman on my team simply because the Shaman can do more things on the regular, but the times for when I just need shots of targeted healing, the Shaman doesn't cut it so far. Having a Decoy Bunker up doesn't guarantee that no attacks will fall on my party, nor does doing Dragon Roar guarantee that all attacks will fall on the Dragoon... both of which are fair and understandable, but it means that I persistently need to have a targeted big heal available on demand, and if that source of targeted healing is going to be Medica II's, then that slows my progression hugely because I'm still at a point where Medica II's are expensive.

    Or is there some secret formula to running Shamans alongside Rovers and Dragoons that allows you to just never need a targeted heal?

    Cole's Law: "Thinly sliced cabbage."
  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    "Masurao can bind all" is a pretty technical truth. It's a tiny base-chance to inflict one random bind and deal some light damage.

    A Shaman and a Rover together can splash healing all over the place and hope it's fine.

    OrphaneKoldanar
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    PLA wrote: »
    "Masurao can bind all" is a pretty technical truth. It's a tiny base-chance to inflict one random bind and deal some light damage.

    A Shaman and a Rover together can splash healing all over the place and hope it's fine.

    Oh yeesh, I hadn't read the base chance on that. That's BAD.

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  • chrono_travellerchrono_traveller Registered User regular
    l_g wrote: »
    The one thing I'm not particularly thrilled with is that the Botanist's job is literally casting Heal, so far in the game. Occasionally, I cast the status ailment cleaner.
    If it weren't for the field skills, which really do help give your party members identities in the adventure as adventurers, the Botanist feels like a character that literally doesn't do much.

    One of the things I really liked in EO3 is that the classes with healing abilities like the Sovereign and the Monk had lots of other abilities, or encouraged you to play with particular objectives in order to maximize the healing (e.g. keeping the Sovereign at full HP results in healing for your party). The Botanist so far is literally just a "Heal" button. The War Magus of EO2 is also more "fun" than the Medic, even if it's less effective as an actual healer.

    I want to have a Shaman on my team simply because the Shaman can do more things on the regular, but the times for when I just need shots of targeted healing, the Shaman doesn't cut it so far. Having a Decoy Bunker up doesn't guarantee that no attacks will fall on my party, nor does doing Dragon Roar guarantee that all attacks will fall on the Dragoon... both of which are fair and understandable, but it means that I persistently need to have a targeted big heal available on demand, and if that source of targeted healing is going to be Medica II's, then that slows my progression hugely because I'm still at a point where Medica II's are expensive.

    Or is there some secret formula to running Shamans alongside Rovers and Dragoons that allows you to just never need a targeted heal?

    What do you have against smoking? Though I agree, Botanist does seem a bit dull. Hound Rovers do get a targeted heal, so that may help?

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  • TakelTakel Registered User regular
    I'm running with Dragoon/Shaman/Rover at the moment.

    Dragoon does its best to mitigate damage
    Shaman with Aegis Prayer also helps mitigate
    Rover with Aid Command is a pretty beefy, fast targeted heal with a bonus ailment removal. And then there's items. I'm leaving my Shaman as a brownie simply because one of their racial skills is a boost to HP healing items, which is where I'm going to get my spammable AoE healing from.

    As an aside, the shaman heal that consumes a buff does not require a buff that's been casted by the shaman. If you have say, a Masurao and they use High Ground, you can consume the High Ground for the heal.

    When I was still running my Botanist, I had her toss out smokes and then use the damage vulnerability ability or skip the combo and immediately vulnerability to help boost the warlock who was focus casting spells to eke out the most damage from my TP as possible. I also had her with a 1st stratum bow that gave her access to aegis prayer so I had a mitigation buff as well. But yes, Botanist tended to sit on a lot of TP when I had them.

    Oh yes, a hint to those running Rovers and are around stratum 3... or in general really.
    Farm Flints from the mining spots, and make Hero Orbs out of them, which are +60TP accessories. Equip those things on the rover before you rest at the inn, then you can summon your hawk/hounds and reequip proper accessories without biting into your TP stock

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    TP accessories would apply to necromancers as well, wouldn't it? Or any other field buffs you want to raise for free.

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  • TakelTakel Registered User regular
    Yeap. Use those when you have 'prep' skills to use. And you can use them as a TP battery for say, Warlocks so you can go ham for a bit before swapping out as you progress further into your expedition. If you have 3x Hero Orbs when you rest, you'll be able to summon a 75TP Hawk and Hound and still have 30 TP to spare

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    Fry
  • FrozenzenFrozenzen Registered User regular
    l_g wrote: »
    The one thing I'm not particularly thrilled with is that the Botanist's job is literally casting Heal, so far in the game. Occasionally, I cast the status ailment cleaner.
    If it weren't for the field skills, which really do help give your party members identities in the adventure as adventurers, the Botanist feels like a character that literally doesn't do much.

    One of the things I really liked in EO3 is that the classes with healing abilities like the Sovereign and the Monk had lots of other abilities, or encouraged you to play with particular objectives in order to maximize the healing (e.g. keeping the Sovereign at full HP results in healing for your party). The Botanist so far is literally just a "Heal" button. The War Magus of EO2 is also more "fun" than the Medic, even if it's less effective as an actual healer.

    I want to have a Shaman on my team simply because the Shaman can do more things on the regular, but the times for when I just need shots of targeted healing, the Shaman doesn't cut it so far. Having a Decoy Bunker up doesn't guarantee that no attacks will fall on my party, nor does doing Dragon Roar guarantee that all attacks will fall on the Dragoon... both of which are fair and understandable, but it means that I persistently need to have a targeted big heal available on demand, and if that source of targeted healing is going to be Medica II's, then that slows my progression hugely because I'm still at a point where Medica II's are expensive.

    Or is there some secret formula to running Shamans alongside Rovers and Dragoons that allows you to just never need a targeted heal?

    Smoke skills are pretty good. Currently in the fifth stratum, and my smokespec botanist is invaluable. Good ailments, decent healing and respectable damage.

  • OrphaneOrphane All that remains Registered User regular
    the thing is about healing spec botanist is that it can overheal and is the only class that gets no strings attached strong direct healing on demand as well as ailment/bind cures

    so yeah, they are boring outside of that, but they literally can't be beat at their job

    PLA
  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    I gave my botanist a bow to proc another chain for my fencer when bunkers are up and the need for spot healing goes away.

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  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    High level herbalist-healing gets a bit mahvel.

  • TamerBillTamerBill Registered User regular
    Takel wrote: »
    Yeap. Use those when you have 'prep' skills to use. And you can use them as a TP battery for say, Warlocks so you can go ham for a bit before swapping out as you progress further into your expedition. If you have 3x Hero Orbs when you rest, you'll be able to summon a 75TP Hawk and Hound and still have 30 TP to spare

    You can only have one accessory equipped per character in this one, so no stacking orbs.

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  • FrozenzenFrozenzen Registered User regular
    Having hawk and hound isn't particularly good Either. You don't have enough points to get all the skills, and not enough tp to spam the good hawk stuff. And a hawkrover does great damage with tp.

    TamerBill
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    So I'm not sure Dragoon really plays nicely with Rover. Mainly on drawing AoE to the pet row. But also pulling double pets means you can't pull out multiple bunkers.

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  • FrozenzenFrozenzen Registered User regular
    After the second stratum enemies get a lot of row piercing and all attacks, bunkers kind of lose their usefulness.

    And double pet rover is not great. Better off focused on one path.

    My dragoon is generally too busy shielding/nuking to get bunkers up in foe or boss battles anyway, although they might be useful if maxed. The dangerous attacks are almost all partybased or linepiercing.

  • ArtereisArtereis Registered User regular
    I'm really starting to like my necromancer now that I have gravekeeping and reincarnation nearly maxed. Those wraiths just keep popping up. I haven't even looked at the mastery skills yet.

  • milskimilski UNTZ UNTZ UNTZ UNTZ Registered User regular
    I'm using a hawkrover and a necromancer. I'm not sure if missing the third wraith is that terribly anti synergistic or not.

    Also necromancer with maxed healing does some pretty solid work, but I slept on the firebomb skill and damn that hits hard.

    You can't write me off like that! You're just a voice, pal! You don't know a DAMN THING ABOUT RACING!!
  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    Two pets aren't that SP-demanding. Minor in doggonomics is a bit more expensive because the basic skills are better. But bird's basic skills are like, whatever. Having it just improves Target Arrow and Crossing the Sanzu.

  • chrono_travellerchrono_traveller Registered User regular
    PLA wrote: »
    Two pets aren't that SP-demanding. Minor in doggonomics is a bit more expensive because the basic skills are better. But bird's basic skills are like, whatever. Having it just improves Target Arrow and Crossing the Sanzu.

    Maybe later on its not bad, but 45 sp for each pet at lvl 5 seems pretty demanding. I have the hound at lvl 5 and hawk at lvl 1, and 60 sp leaves me with like 20 sp.

    The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett

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  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    Oh, geez, both at level 5 would be a very rough first investment. In both TP and SP.

    PLA on
    Polaritie
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Something people need to learn when it comes to playing Etrian Odyssey games is when to cross the thresholds of SP cost increases.

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    PLA wrote: »
    Oh, geez, both at level 5 would be a very rough first investment. In both TP and SP.

    I was always under the impression that the double pet thing was just "put one point in the pet you aren't using because it's free HP/damage".

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  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    More or less. A bit more dog gives you a heal and some binds, too.

  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    PLA wrote: »
    More or less. A bit more dog gives you a heal and some binds, too.

    Since the whistle skills are multipliers, even a 1/3 investment keeps up somewhat. Unless you're using the summon row for something else, I don't think you can justify not having rank 1 both pets (eventually - you may not be able to afford it as much early on).

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  • OrphaneOrphane All that remains Registered User regular
    Only hit level 5 and 10 if you have the TP pool for it/you absolutely need the jump in performance/it's a poison skill

  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    Also, some skills change dramatically in nature at breakpoints. Such as going from a very fast move to a very slow move, or going from a minor drain on your health to taking off at least half your health every turn.

    PLA on
  • l_gl_g Registered User regular
    Does attack type affect Chaser proc rate? It seems like the first attack from anybody following Chaser activation will proc the Chaser, but I wonder if using same element or same "hit" type (e.g. slash/pierce) affects it.

    Cole's Law: "Thinly sliced cabbage."
  • FrozenzenFrozenzen Registered User regular
    Orphane wrote: »
    Only hit level 5 and 10 if you have the TP pool for it/you absolutely need the jump in performance/it's a poison skill

    You should probably get your main damage skills to 9 before second stratum boss, and you really should max them out for fourth stratum. Most later floors have at least one random encounter that has a decent chance of killing 1-3 partymembers unless you kill them extremely quickly. And smoke herbalists should max out poison smoke asap, it still deals decent damage in the fifth stratum.

    Me running a very offensive party might be related to this I guess, my dragoon is cannon spec and my herbalist is smoke spec.

    @l_g Fencer chasers only proc of same element and piercing attacks iirc. I'm not running chasers myself, but I think the way around this is to have a shaman buff your party with the correct element on all their attacks.

    PLA
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Chasers also only have 100% proc the first time. Chance goes down each proc.

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  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    Yep, stab and one out of volt, ice or fire. This is another job Shaman does well.
    The big flurries only really happen with the advanced skills.

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