I would fully expect Older Gordon to drop the hiding and just mash the gas pedal on tech advancement on Earth, intentionally creating a situation where the Union and Ed never exist to threaten his family. Not to mention jumpstarting Earth tech by 400 years should put them way out ahead of the Moclans, Krill, and Kaylon; Gordon knows at least enough to create a means of transmitting an FTL message from 2015 Earth
One other thing that was a weird nit to pick (and goes with something else from an earlier season):
Gordon stating that he's "a murderer" under Union law because he killed animals for food.
That's a really stupid law? Because life eats other life, and outlawing an entirely normal event is bizarre and draconian. I get if nobody wants to eat meat because they can just synthesize better, healthier food, but hunting animals isn't murder. And in an earlier episode, Ed broadly labels zoos as just places humans kept animals for entertainment, which is both wildly wrong and a huge disservice to the many people who devote their lives to the animals in their care at zoos. There are bad zoos, certainly, but lumping in the bad ones with the good ones is... stupid.
I think the idea there is that since they're post scarcity, Hunting is probably illegal except for like religious observance on Earth.
are YOU on the beer list?
+9
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I would fully expect Older Gordon to drop the hiding and just mash the gas pedal on tech advancement on Earth, intentionally creating a situation where the Union and Ed never exist to threaten his family. Not to mention jumpstarting Earth tech by 400 years should put them way out ahead of the Moclans, Krill, and Kaylon; Gordon knows at least enough to create a means of transmitting an FTL message from 2015 Earth
One other thing that was a weird nit to pick (and goes with something else from an earlier season):
Gordon stating that he's "a murderer" under Union law because he killed animals for food.
That's a really stupid law? Because life eats other life, and outlawing an entirely normal event is bizarre and draconian. I get if nobody wants to eat meat because they can just synthesize better, healthier food, but hunting animals isn't murder. And in an earlier episode, Ed broadly labels zoos as just places humans kept animals for entertainment, which is both wildly wrong and a huge disservice to the many people who devote their lives to the animals in their care at zoos. There are bad zoos, certainly, but lumping in the bad ones with the good ones is... stupid.
I think the idea there is that since they're post scarcity, Hunting is probably illegal except for like religious observance on Earth.
Even making it generally illegal I can get but still, eating meat is absolutely not murder. Yeah, Gordon was raised without any need for meat to come from live animals and it makes sense it could do a number on his sensibilities to be forced into doing that, but eating animals doesn't remotely make anybody a murderer and even for a future person that's some wild hyperbole.
I would fully expect Older Gordon to drop the hiding and just mash the gas pedal on tech advancement on Earth, intentionally creating a situation where the Union and Ed never exist to threaten his family. Not to mention jumpstarting Earth tech by 400 years should put them way out ahead of the Moclans, Krill, and Kaylon; Gordon knows at least enough to create a means of transmitting an FTL message from 2015 Earth
One other thing that was a weird nit to pick (and goes with something else from an earlier season):
Gordon stating that he's "a murderer" under Union law because he killed animals for food.
That's a really stupid law? Because life eats other life, and outlawing an entirely normal event is bizarre and draconian. I get if nobody wants to eat meat because they can just synthesize better, healthier food, but hunting animals isn't murder. And in an earlier episode, Ed broadly labels zoos as just places humans kept animals for entertainment, which is both wildly wrong and a huge disservice to the many people who devote their lives to the animals in their care at zoos. There are bad zoos, certainly, but lumping in the bad ones with the good ones is... stupid.
I think the idea there is that since they're post scarcity, Hunting is probably illegal except for like religious observance on Earth.
Even making it generally illegal I can get but still, eating meat is absolutely not murder. Yeah, Gordon was raised without any need for meat to come from live animals and it makes sense it could do a number on his sensibilities to be forced into doing that, but eating animals doesn't remotely make anybody a murderer and even for a future person that's some wild hyperbole.
Not really. We're already getting to the point where we have plant-based alternatives to ground meat (Impossible Meat, etc), and lab growing stuff like steak and tuna is feasible. Unless everything goes to shit in the next ten years (which is possible), we could see the need to kill to get meat vanish. If humanity spent 300+ years not needing to kill for meat, I could absolutely see folk seeing kill animals for food as murder.
I would fully expect Older Gordon to drop the hiding and just mash the gas pedal on tech advancement on Earth, intentionally creating a situation where the Union and Ed never exist to threaten his family. Not to mention jumpstarting Earth tech by 400 years should put them way out ahead of the Moclans, Krill, and Kaylon; Gordon knows at least enough to create a means of transmitting an FTL message from 2015 Earth
One other thing that was a weird nit to pick (and goes with something else from an earlier season):
Gordon stating that he's "a murderer" under Union law because he killed animals for food.
That's a really stupid law? Because life eats other life, and outlawing an entirely normal event is bizarre and draconian. I get if nobody wants to eat meat because they can just synthesize better, healthier food, but hunting animals isn't murder. And in an earlier episode, Ed broadly labels zoos as just places humans kept animals for entertainment, which is both wildly wrong and a huge disservice to the many people who devote their lives to the animals in their care at zoos. There are bad zoos, certainly, but lumping in the bad ones with the good ones is... stupid.
I think the idea there is that since they're post scarcity, Hunting is probably illegal except for like religious observance on Earth.
Even making it generally illegal I can get but still, eating meat is absolutely not murder. Yeah, Gordon was raised without any need for meat to come from live animals and it makes sense it could do a number on his sensibilities to be forced into doing that, but eating animals doesn't remotely make anybody a murderer and even for a future person that's some wild hyperbole.
Not really. We're already getting to the point where we have plant-based alternatives to ground meat (Impossible Meat, etc), and lab growing stuff like steak and tuna is feasible. Unless everything goes to shit in the next ten years (which is possible), we could see the need to kill to get meat vanish. If humanity spent 300+ years not needing to kill for meat, I could absolutely see folk seeing kill animals for food as murder.
2070:
Legit question for rural Americans - how do I kill the 30-50 feral cows that run into my yard within 3-5 minutes while my small kids play?
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
I would fully expect Older Gordon to drop the hiding and just mash the gas pedal on tech advancement on Earth, intentionally creating a situation where the Union and Ed never exist to threaten his family. Not to mention jumpstarting Earth tech by 400 years should put them way out ahead of the Moclans, Krill, and Kaylon; Gordon knows at least enough to create a means of transmitting an FTL message from 2015 Earth
One other thing that was a weird nit to pick (and goes with something else from an earlier season):
Gordon stating that he's "a murderer" under Union law because he killed animals for food.
That's a really stupid law? Because life eats other life, and outlawing an entirely normal event is bizarre and draconian. I get if nobody wants to eat meat because they can just synthesize better, healthier food, but hunting animals isn't murder. And in an earlier episode, Ed broadly labels zoos as just places humans kept animals for entertainment, which is both wildly wrong and a huge disservice to the many people who devote their lives to the animals in their care at zoos. There are bad zoos, certainly, but lumping in the bad ones with the good ones is... stupid.
I think the idea there is that since they're post scarcity, Hunting is probably illegal except for like religious observance on Earth.
Even making it generally illegal I can get but still, eating meat is absolutely not murder. Yeah, Gordon was raised without any need for meat to come from live animals and it makes sense it could do a number on his sensibilities to be forced into doing that, but eating animals doesn't remotely make anybody a murderer and even for a future person that's some wild hyperbole.
Not really. We're already getting to the point where we have plant-based alternatives to ground meat (Impossible Meat, etc), and lab growing stuff like steak and tuna is feasible. Unless everything goes to shit in the next ten years (which is possible), we could see the need to kill to get meat vanish. If humanity spent 300+ years not needing to kill for meat, I could absolutely see folk seeing kill animals for food as murder.
2070:
Legit question for rural Americans - how do I kill the 30-50 feral cows that run into my yard within 3-5 minutes while my small kids play?
The fully automatic grenade launcher that SCOTUS made legal in 2040.
I would fully expect Older Gordon to drop the hiding and just mash the gas pedal on tech advancement on Earth, intentionally creating a situation where the Union and Ed never exist to threaten his family. Not to mention jumpstarting Earth tech by 400 years should put them way out ahead of the Moclans, Krill, and Kaylon; Gordon knows at least enough to create a means of transmitting an FTL message from 2015 Earth
One other thing that was a weird nit to pick (and goes with something else from an earlier season):
Gordon stating that he's "a murderer" under Union law because he killed animals for food.
That's a really stupid law? Because life eats other life, and outlawing an entirely normal event is bizarre and draconian. I get if nobody wants to eat meat because they can just synthesize better, healthier food, but hunting animals isn't murder. And in an earlier episode, Ed broadly labels zoos as just places humans kept animals for entertainment, which is both wildly wrong and a huge disservice to the many people who devote their lives to the animals in their care at zoos. There are bad zoos, certainly, but lumping in the bad ones with the good ones is... stupid.
I think the idea there is that since they're post scarcity, Hunting is probably illegal except for like religious observance on Earth.
Even making it generally illegal I can get but still, eating meat is absolutely not murder. Yeah, Gordon was raised without any need for meat to come from live animals and it makes sense it could do a number on his sensibilities to be forced into doing that, but eating animals doesn't remotely make anybody a murderer and even for a future person that's some wild hyperbole.
Not really. We're already getting to the point where we have plant-based alternatives to ground meat (Impossible Meat, etc), and lab growing stuff like steak and tuna is feasible. Unless everything goes to shit in the next ten years (which is possible), we could see the need to kill to get meat vanish. If humanity spent 300+ years not needing to kill for meat, I could absolutely see folk seeing kill animals for food as murder.
2070:
Legit question for rural Americans - how do I kill the 30-50 feral cows that run into my yard within 3-5 minutes while my small kids play?
The fully automatic grenade launcher that SCOTUS made legal in 2040.
President Comacho really did have what voters crave.
I would fully expect Older Gordon to drop the hiding and just mash the gas pedal on tech advancement on Earth, intentionally creating a situation where the Union and Ed never exist to threaten his family. Not to mention jumpstarting Earth tech by 400 years should put them way out ahead of the Moclans, Krill, and Kaylon; Gordon knows at least enough to create a means of transmitting an FTL message from 2015 Earth
One other thing that was a weird nit to pick (and goes with something else from an earlier season):
Gordon stating that he's "a murderer" under Union law because he killed animals for food.
That's a really stupid law? Because life eats other life, and outlawing an entirely normal event is bizarre and draconian. I get if nobody wants to eat meat because they can just synthesize better, healthier food, but hunting animals isn't murder. And in an earlier episode, Ed broadly labels zoos as just places humans kept animals for entertainment, which is both wildly wrong and a huge disservice to the many people who devote their lives to the animals in their care at zoos. There are bad zoos, certainly, but lumping in the bad ones with the good ones is... stupid.
It seems like based on this episode and the cellphone one future humans see us like selfish cavemen and ignore that we were people.
King Riptor on
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I don't think the eating meat was the problem, but killing the animals; the punishment would be the same whether it was for food or sport. Also
the impact that killing those specific animals on the timeline might have had. Maybe some were endangered species, maybe they give birth to animals that impact other people in various ways down the line.
I think the really weird thing is that there are established unbreakable rules in the first place.
The Orville was the first to invent time-travel tech, but also there were already hardcoded rules in place about mucking with the timeline that every officer knows.
A time machine, not time travel. We already know temporal accidents happen because they already had one with Grayson. Star Trek has dozens of time travel episodes, but only a handful where said travel is intentional in the first place (and even fewer where it's initiated by the protagonists. It's more likely to be caused by high energy tech going haywire. Orville has less history, but this is the third time travel episode, but the first done intentionally with a dedicated device. One was accidental and one was intentional but recreating the accident.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Yeah, the rules existing doesn't bother me given that the Union is high-tech and they use equipment that already manipulates spacetime at a fundamental level, but the rules should definitely just be guidelines as the response to any such incursion would have to be a custom fit to the situation. What does bother me is that somehow they're supposed to be 1000% iron-clad ride-or-die rules where if you don't follow them perfectly, the people involved in enforcing it somehow get to justify being absolute fuckhead monsters.
The law they had was obviously terribly flawed in that Orville should never have been allowed to go back in time at all, once they determined that all that Gordon did was literally blend the fuck in and live a normal life. He didn't advance any radical philosophies for the time, he didn't introduce any new technologies despite clearly having the means, he didn't alter the time capsule event, he didn't do anything. In fact, Gordon living an average-ass life was probably a lot less conspicuous than some creepy half-starving miserable loner living in an abandoned cabin out in the woods, killing random critters with a space gun. He was even only a few hundred years out from the genetic pool of the time, so his genes would've been totally and completely unremarkable and had no impact on the population whatsoever.
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
My question is:
So they went back and got younger Malloy, so all was well.
Did the alternate universe just implode, or is Malloy still out there living out his days with wife and kids in timeline 2.0?
Like, I'd watch a 30 minute sitcom of Nega-Malloy and Lauren and their kids
So they went back and got younger Malloy, so all was well.
Did the alternate universe just implode, or is Malloy still out there living out his days with wife and kids in timeline 2.0?
Like, I'd watch a 30 minute sitcom of Nega-Malloy and Lauren and their kids
Gordons message is the Sandwich from earlier. He now never sent it but he had to send it creating a paradox and a new timeline. So the alt Malloys are still around and he's probably now even less inclined to follow union protocol
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How did the Kaylon know about the time travel device? I assumed they were going to learn about it because the Orville ends up in the past but that didn't happen.
How did the Kaylon know about the time travel device? I assumed they were going to learn about it because the Orville ends up in the past but that didn't happen.
From back in S1, the Krill found out about the original device via spies so it wouldn't be impossible the Kaylon also have spies (there's always going to be somebody dumb and selfish enough to believe the genocidal assholes won't turn against them). It's also possible that it was just coincidence that the Kaylon targeted that facility for destruction and were waiting for other ships to show up, only finding out about it because they were at the location when transmissions started to come through.
How did the Kaylon know about the time travel device? I assumed they were going to learn about it because the Orville ends up in the past but that didn't happen.
From back in S1, the Krill found out about the original device via spies so it wouldn't be impossible the Kaylon also have spies (there's always going to be somebody dumb and selfish enough to believe the genocidal assholes won't turn against them). It's also possible that it was just coincidence that the Kaylon targeted that facility for destruction and were waiting for other ships to show up, only finding out about it because they were at the location when transmissions started to come through.
Either the sandwich comes back as a deus egg machina joke or the machine messes up and this is what tells them I am guessing.
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited July 2022
If the sandwich shows up, that's going to be some screwy temporal mechanics. The machine sent it forward, but isn't needed to retrieve it. That means that the sandwich somehow knew the location of the Orville relatively three months in the future, but knowing that location would mean knowing it would
go back in time 400 years and then go back in time 10 years and then come forward in time that same amount of time, then be somewhere else three months after that arrival. So does the existence of the sandwich three months in the future mean the events in between became fixed so the Orville arrives in the right spot, or does it mean the sandwich knew the entire future sequence of those three months?
If the sandwich shows up, that's going to be some screwy temporal mechanics. The machine sent it forward, but isn't needed to retrieve it. That means that the sandwich somehow knew the location of the Orville relatively three months in the future, but knowing that location would mean knowing it would
go back in time 400 years and then go back in time 10 years and then come forward in time that same amount of time, then be somewhere else three months after that arrival. So does the existence of the sandwich three months in the future mean the events in between became fixed so the Orville arrives in the right spot, or does it mean the sandwich knew the entire future sequence of those three months?
So what I'm saying is "don't teleport the bread".
"I have done nothing but teleport bread for three days."
If the sandwich shows up, that's going to be some screwy temporal mechanics. The machine sent it forward, but isn't needed to retrieve it. That means that the sandwich somehow knew the location of the Orville relatively three months in the future, but knowing that location would mean knowing it would
go back in time 400 years and then go back in time 10 years and then come forward in time that same amount of time, then be somewhere else three months after that arrival. So does the existence of the sandwich three months in the future mean the events in between became fixed so the Orville arrives in the right spot, or does it mean the sandwich knew the entire future sequence of those three months?
So what I'm saying is "don't teleport the bread".
Yeah. It has to be a space and time machine. The sandwich stayed in motion with the ship.
was ok with missing out on the love of his life and a family.
This is totally going to bite Ed on the ass.
It really sounds like they royally screwed up.
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
I LOVED how
They used a fucking REPLICATOR to make a sandwich and then send it in time, and then Malloy wanted both sandwiches from the time machine, instead of using the replicator again
100% on brand Malloy. I mean shit he was
a couple morning beers in it during the pilot episode
was ok with missing out on the love of his life and a family.
This is totally going to bite Ed on the ass.
It really sounds like they royally screwed up.
It's easy to lose something you never actually had.
2015 Gordon, the one they rescued, believed in the union. He believed in the rules. He believed in his friends. That help would come, either they would figure out where he went or he would complete his plan to signal them. And then they arrive and his hopes bore wonderful fruit. When they told him this wild story they experienced coming for him, none of it was real to him. 2025 Gordon was a different person, who he didn't want to become.
2025 Gordon gave up a that hope a long time ago. When the help he gave up on arrived too little too late, it was worse than not arriving at all.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I really don't think they gave Gordon the whole story. I think they definitely did some command editing and then hoped he would never follow up on the full report that was obviously classified to protect the timeline.
The closest analogue I could think of would be if the same situation happened to me and my siblings had to talk me out of it, and I can tell you they would know better than to even try because there's no chance I'd let somebody so cruelly wipe something away. And they would definitely know not to cheat the situation and then tell me all the details afterwards. Though my siblings would also know better than to fuck with the situation anyway, this is some basic temporal mechanics here. Imagine how fucked
the timeline would've gotten if the Orville screwed the jump and ended up faceplanting on Earth, putting a whole future starship and its crew in the hands of 21st-century humanity? No way was that risk worth dragging Gordon out of his completely nondescript history and back into the future.
Because yeah, people change.
But the Gordon we encounter with a family is a Gordon we already saw: a man so looking for that kind of connection that he replicated some anachronistic backwards device so he could more fully experience how the original owner lived their life.
I liked the message of this episode, which is that you aren't the same person you were 10 years ago.
The directive of "Hide in the woods and never get spotted" is silly. You may as well have told them to dig a deep hole, climb in, and kill themselves to protect the timeline.
I liked the message of this episode, which is that you aren't the same person you were 10 years ago.
The directive of "Hide in the woods and never get spotted" is silly. You may as well have told them to dig a deep hole, climb in, and kill themselves to protect the timeline.
That would have been kinder
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
I liked the message of this episode, which is that you aren't the same person you were 10 years ago.
The directive of "Hide in the woods and never get spotted" is silly. You may as well have told them to dig a deep hole, climb in, and kill themselves to protect the timeline.
And the person you were ten years ago probably never thought they would become the person you are now.
I liked the message of this episode, which is that you aren't the same person you were 10 years ago.
The directive of "Hide in the woods and never get spotted" is silly. You may as well have told them to dig a deep hole, climb in, and kill themselves to protect the timeline.
I believe they did say something along the lines that he was expected to die if it meant preserving the timeline.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I liked the message of this episode, which is that you aren't the same person you were 10 years ago.
The directive of "Hide in the woods and never get spotted" is silly. You may as well have told them to dig a deep hole, climb in, and kill themselves to protect the timeline.
I believe they did say something along the lines that he was expected to die if it meant preserving the timeline.
Specifically
Gordon asks if he should've just died and Ed says that yes, he should have. That doesn't mean the rules necessarily say that, and I call bullshit on the idea that the same Union where humans now view killing animals for food as murder would demand suicide from somebody over them living out their life, albeit quietly and without revealing anything about the future.
There's nothing that makes any given timeline the holy perfect timeline, so there's no intrinsic reason at all that Gordon should have been denied living his life just to keep the Orville from having a record of it later. What if Gordon had covered his tracks intentionally and they had no record of him? Would it suddenly have been okay that he still went back in time but now they just don't know what he did?
Remind me again why they couldn't take Malloy, Malloywife, and Malloyson with them, then go to 2015, pick up Malloy(+1Month), return to Union Central, and put Malloy(+10yr) on trial for his crimes?
Oh they'd create a paradox? they did that anyway by rescuing him before he sent the distress signal, they also used TIME MAGIC to create fuel from a timeline that no longer exists, but couldn't bring the woman and her child from that timeline? Just gonna go all TVA on us and destroying the entire universe lol
The reason this is so odious is that there was no time pressure, they literally have a time machine
The writers clearly just didn't think this one through and decided to make the heroes the villains, I was rooting for 3 lethal shots to the back tbh
No they did this is set up for something
so based on how weve seen time travel in the show work before
-If people in the past change the future any visitor from thebold timeline is erased( BTW Ed you should be on trial too see below)
-Past Kelly shows Memories from a previous future timeline dont erase even if that timeline is changed
-In this episode they OPEN with if you create a paradox bam new timeline. The Orville would have created a new timeline either way by rescuing Gordon early( which wouldnt have been majorly different) but they actuslly create 3
Universe 1- Gordon has his family and dies at 96 nothing bad happens
Universe 2- They traumatize the Malloys and fuck knows whats gonna go on now that hes hellbent on saving them
Universe 3 now the Prime timeline- they save Gordon nothing changes
So yeah the villians here were the Orville crew and Ed is a time criminal
Nope straight up genocidal murderers
none of ed's consternation at the end makes sense unless he murdered that famiy (although nobody thinks about that entire universe he wiped out), if he just gave them what they wanted then he shouldn't feel responsible about doing anything wrong except inflicting unnecessary trauma. If that was the case there's no reason for Malloy to stand there panicking ready to murder his friends as they walk away (personally, I would have, sorry, you come for my family you're going down)
Also the show can fuck off with moralizing about what Malloy did, I practically threw my remote at the tv at the end when he said "you did the right thing", the Union's rules are asinine and nobody could follow them. The only part of that which is suspect is Malloy picking a woman he had a crush on and had researched, it's weird and cringe, but when she reveals she knows and loved him anyway that kind of nips that in the bud (also, you don't get to murder her just because Malloy's relationship was built on skeevy ground)
such a gross episode that feels so shit, me and my friends that watched it together couldn't believe they straight up did a "doctor who goes mad with power but frames it as a good thing" episode
I liked the message of this episode, which is that you aren't the same person you were 10 years ago.
The directive of "Hide in the woods and never get spotted" is silly. You may as well have told them to dig a deep hole, climb in, and kill themselves to protect the timeline.
I believe they did say something along the lines that he was expected to die if it meant preserving the timeline.
Specifically
Gordon asks if he should've just died and Ed says that yes, he should have. That doesn't mean the rules necessarily say that, and I call bullshit on the idea that the same Union where humans now view killing animals for food as murder would demand suicide from somebody over them living out their life, albeit quietly and without revealing anything about the future.
There's nothing that makes any given timeline the holy perfect timeline, so there's no intrinsic reason at all that Gordon should have been denied living his life just to keep the Orville from having a record of it later. What if Gordon had covered his tracks intentionally and they had no record of him? Would it suddenly have been okay that he still went back in time but now they just don't know what he did?
The Union is just the TVA from Loki, apparently
It's clear the rules were written in a theoretical sense, a kind of thought-experiment way, but to see the crew dispassionately pull the cord on the gallows and feel as bummed as you do when your sports team loses was a real turnoff
Saw a reviewer that agreed with Kelly and Ed, even going so far as to say that FamilyGordon had become a villain. Which... that is certainly a take that you can have.
Feel like there is a big empathy gap between the ethics of this show and Star Trek. It's rather like if the episode where Worf's brother tries to save the primitive people from planetary destruction ended with all of them dying and Picard being assured he did the right thing. It's not the same situation but the ethos leads in that same direction. The script doesn't respect the human and emotional element enough.
This was actually a really moving episode if you assume Mercer is the villain of the story. I'm fine with that, Mercer suck. But Grayson should have acted better, and I feel like her approach here is very out of character. The lack of internal strife within the crew over this is what's really baffling about their direction here.
Not surprised that younger Malloy is unfazed. Feels like that's exactly how I would've reacted in my 20s if you told me I had a theoretical family in my future - I wouldn't be able to wrap my head around being that person, and would find it much more thought experiment than a lived reality.
But I choose to believe that their time shenanigans ended with two Malloys, and the crew was just too dumb to check the database and see that the same record of alt Malloy was still there.
I'm going to give the episode major props for actually acknowledging the existence of the COVID-19 pandemic and treating it seriously. Also the relativistic time travel was really cool. I think this was a great episode.
it would be awful/hilarious to have had the orville
jump 10 years too far in the past (overshoot) and then we see what they do for 10 years waiting for malloy to show up. i think that would have been far more interesting because a)sure they could try and jump forward but they know if they miss by more than 3 years they get the original situation and b)they can't do anything that messes with the timeline so some people are going to get reeeeeal depressed sitting on a ship for 10 years
Remind me again why they couldn't take Malloy, Malloywife, and Malloyson with them, then go to 2015, pick up Malloy(+1Month), return to Union Central, and put Malloy(+10yr) on trial for his crimes?
Oh they'd create a paradox? they did that anyway by rescuing him before he sent the distress signal, they also used TIME MAGIC to create fuel from a timeline that no longer exists, but couldn't bring the woman and her child from that timeline? Just gonna go all TVA on us and destroying the entire universe lol
The reason this is so odious is that there was no time pressure, they literally have a time machine
The writers clearly just didn't think this one through and decided to make the heroes the villains, I was rooting for 3 lethal shots to the back tbh
No they did this is set up for something
so based on how weve seen time travel in the show work before
-If people in the past change the future any visitor from thebold timeline is erased( BTW Ed you should be on trial too see below)
-Past Kelly shows Memories from a previous future timeline dont erase even if that timeline is changed
-In this episode they OPEN with if you create a paradox bam new timeline. The Orville would have created a new timeline either way by rescuing Gordon early( which wouldnt have been majorly different) but they actuslly create 3
Universe 1- Gordon has his family and dies at 96 nothing bad happens
Universe 2- They traumatize the Malloys and fuck knows whats gonna go on now that hes hellbent on saving them
Universe 3 now the Prime timeline- they save Gordon nothing changes
So yeah the villians here were the Orville crew and Ed is a time criminal
Nope straight up genocidal murderers
none of ed's consternation at the end makes sense unless he murdered that famiy (although nobody thinks about that entire universe he wiped out), if he just gave them what they wanted then he shouldn't feel responsible about doing anything wrong except inflicting unnecessary trauma. If that was the case there's no reason for Malloy to stand there panicking ready to murder his friends as they walk away (personally, I would have, sorry, you come for my family you're going down)
Also the show can fuck off with moralizing about what Malloy did, I practically threw my remote at the tv at the end when he said "you did the right thing", the Union's rules are asinine and nobody could follow them. The only part of that which is suspect is Malloy picking a woman he had a crush on and had researched, it's weird and cringe, but when she reveals she knows and loved him anyway that kind of nips that in the bud (also, you don't get to murder her just because Malloy's relationship was built on skeevy ground)
such a gross episode that feels so shit, me and my friends that watched it together couldn't believe they straight up did a "doctor who goes mad with power but frames it as a good thing" episode
I liked the message of this episode, which is that you aren't the same person you were 10 years ago.
The directive of "Hide in the woods and never get spotted" is silly. You may as well have told them to dig a deep hole, climb in, and kill themselves to protect the timeline.
I believe they did say something along the lines that he was expected to die if it meant preserving the timeline.
Specifically
Gordon asks if he should've just died and Ed says that yes, he should have. That doesn't mean the rules necessarily say that, and I call bullshit on the idea that the same Union where humans now view killing animals for food as murder would demand suicide from somebody over them living out their life, albeit quietly and without revealing anything about the future.
There's nothing that makes any given timeline the holy perfect timeline, so there's no intrinsic reason at all that Gordon should have been denied living his life just to keep the Orville from having a record of it later. What if Gordon had covered his tracks intentionally and they had no record of him? Would it suddenly have been okay that he still went back in time but now they just don't know what he did?
The Union is just the TVA from Loki, apparently
It's clear the rules were written in a theoretical sense, a kind of thought-experiment way, but to see the crew dispassionately pull the cord on the gallows and feel as bummed as you do when your sports team loses was a real turnoff
Thats literally not whats stated at the top of the episode regarding paradoxes. Ed may think otherwise but I doubt hes correct .
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3 Gordons now. CurrentGordon grabbed after a month of hiding in the woods, FamilyGordon who got his happy ending with the woman of his dreams and died of old age, and PissedGordon, who had to suffer through his best friends showing up and berating him for living his life and then saying that they were going to delete him and his children from the 21st century.
The crazy thing is, they already know he didn't fuck the timeline, because it was already their timeline, per the obituary. And if he did, it was already the path they were on since before the show started. Actually going back after him is what puts the timeline at risk. By grabbing him after a month, they create a paradox, because he never sent the distress call that alerted them in the first place (which happened 3 years in).
I’m fairly confidant this will all come back to bite them. The show has proven remarkably consistent on not hand waving away past episodes and having consequences coming back. Hell this very episode is essentially third in a series going back to the first.
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I think the idea there is that since they're post scarcity, Hunting is probably illegal except for like religious observance on Earth.
Even making it generally illegal I can get but still, eating meat is absolutely not murder. Yeah, Gordon was raised without any need for meat to come from live animals and it makes sense it could do a number on his sensibilities to be forced into doing that, but eating animals doesn't remotely make anybody a murderer and even for a future person that's some wild hyperbole.
Not really. We're already getting to the point where we have plant-based alternatives to ground meat (Impossible Meat, etc), and lab growing stuff like steak and tuna is feasible. Unless everything goes to shit in the next ten years (which is possible), we could see the need to kill to get meat vanish. If humanity spent 300+ years not needing to kill for meat, I could absolutely see folk seeing kill animals for food as murder.
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2070:
Legit question for rural Americans - how do I kill the 30-50 feral cows that run into my yard within 3-5 minutes while my small kids play?
The fully automatic grenade launcher that SCOTUS made legal in 2040.
President Comacho really did have what voters crave.
It seems like based on this episode and the cellphone one future humans see us like selfish cavemen and ignore that we were people.
I think the really weird thing is that there are established unbreakable rules in the first place.
Did the alternate universe just implode, or is Malloy still out there living out his days with wife and kids in timeline 2.0?
Like, I'd watch a 30 minute sitcom of Nega-Malloy and Lauren and their kids
From back in S1, the Krill found out about the original device via spies so it wouldn't be impossible the Kaylon also have spies (there's always going to be somebody dumb and selfish enough to believe the genocidal assholes won't turn against them). It's also possible that it was just coincidence that the Kaylon targeted that facility for destruction and were waiting for other ships to show up, only finding out about it because they were at the location when transmissions started to come through.
Either the sandwich comes back as a deus egg machina joke or the machine messes up and this is what tells them I am guessing.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
So what I'm saying is "don't teleport the bread".
"I have done nothing but teleport bread for three days."
Yeah. It has to be a space and time machine. The sandwich stayed in motion with the ship.
It really sounds like they royally screwed up.
100% on brand Malloy. I mean shit he was
It's easy to lose something you never actually had.
2025 Gordon gave up a that hope a long time ago. When the help he gave up on arrived too little too late, it was worse than not arriving at all.
The closest analogue I could think of would be if the same situation happened to me and my siblings had to talk me out of it, and I can tell you they would know better than to even try because there's no chance I'd let somebody so cruelly wipe something away. And they would definitely know not to cheat the situation and then tell me all the details afterwards. Though my siblings would also know better than to fuck with the situation anyway, this is some basic temporal mechanics here. Imagine how fucked
Because yeah, people change.
That would have been kinder
And the person you were ten years ago probably never thought they would become the person you are now.
Specifically
There's nothing that makes any given timeline the holy perfect timeline, so there's no intrinsic reason at all that Gordon should have been denied living his life just to keep the Orville from having a record of it later. What if Gordon had covered his tracks intentionally and they had no record of him? Would it suddenly have been okay that he still went back in time but now they just don't know what he did?
Nope straight up genocidal murderers
Also the show can fuck off with moralizing about what Malloy did, I practically threw my remote at the tv at the end when he said "you did the right thing", the Union's rules are asinine and nobody could follow them. The only part of that which is suspect is Malloy picking a woman he had a crush on and had researched, it's weird and cringe, but when she reveals she knows and loved him anyway that kind of nips that in the bud (also, you don't get to murder her just because Malloy's relationship was built on skeevy ground)
such a gross episode that feels so shit, me and my friends that watched it together couldn't believe they straight up did a "doctor who goes mad with power but frames it as a good thing" episode
The Union is just the TVA from Loki, apparently
It's clear the rules were written in a theoretical sense, a kind of thought-experiment way, but to see the crew dispassionately pull the cord on the gallows and feel as bummed as you do when your sports team loses was a real turnoff
Jesus.
This was actually a really moving episode if you assume Mercer is the villain of the story. I'm fine with that, Mercer suck. But Grayson should have acted better, and I feel like her approach here is very out of character. The lack of internal strife within the crew over this is what's really baffling about their direction here.
Not surprised that younger Malloy is unfazed. Feels like that's exactly how I would've reacted in my 20s if you told me I had a theoretical family in my future - I wouldn't be able to wrap my head around being that person, and would find it much more thought experiment than a lived reality.
But I choose to believe that their time shenanigans ended with two Malloys, and the crew was just too dumb to check the database and see that the same record of alt Malloy was still there.
I'm going to give the episode major props for actually acknowledging the existence of the COVID-19 pandemic and treating it seriously. Also the relativistic time travel was really cool. I think this was a great episode.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
Thats literally not whats stated at the top of the episode regarding paradoxes. Ed may think otherwise but I doubt hes correct .
The crazy thing is, they already know he didn't fuck the timeline, because it was already their timeline, per the obituary. And if he did, it was already the path they were on since before the show started. Actually going back after him is what puts the timeline at risk. By grabbing him after a month, they create a paradox, because he never sent the distress call that alerted them in the first place (which happened 3 years in).
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
except when it doesn't.
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