If it means anything to this thread the games just aren't televising the anthem anymore.
I was just going to ask, any reports of players protesting anyway? Or did the threats from the Shield back them off, and Trump gets a victory for nationalism/jingoism?
Because an enforced salute to the flag sure as shit ain't patriotism.
I remember everybody making fun of Aretha Franklin taking forever to perform the national anthem last season before a Lions game. I assume they only showed it because it was Aretha Franklin performing.
The reactions to that really highlight how it's not about respecting the anthem.
If it means anything to this thread the games just aren't televising the anthem anymore.
Which would have been the smartest move for them from the get go. Say nothing, stop televising the anthem and just act like nothing is happening. No fuss, no culture war, no story because if it's not on TV Trump doesn't believe it's real.
I remember everybody making fun of Aretha Franklin taking forever to perform the national anthem last season before a Lions game. I assume they only showed it because it was Aretha Franklin performing.
The reactions to that really highlight how it's not about respecting the anthem.
I think it was the Thanksgiving game, which is generally weird with broadcasting and they do that stuff because of the holiday.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
If it means anything to this thread the games just aren't televising the anthem anymore.
Which would have been the smartest move for them from the get go. Say nothing, stop televising the anthem and just act like nothing is happening. No fuss, no culture war, no story because if it's not on TV Trump doesn't believe it's real.
I remember everybody making fun of Aretha Franklin taking forever to perform the national anthem last season before a Lions game. I assume they only showed it because it was Aretha Franklin performing.
The reactions to that really highlight how it's not about respecting the anthem.
I think it was the Thanksgiving game, which is generally weird with broadcasting and they do that stuff because of the holiday.
I couldn't remember if it was then or the last Sunday Night game that determined who went to the playoffs.
I remember everybody making fun of Aretha Franklin taking forever to perform the national anthem last season before a Lions game. I assume they only showed it because it was Aretha Franklin performing.
The reactions to that really highlight how it's not about respecting the anthem.
I think it was the Thanksgiving game, which is generally weird with broadcasting and they do that stuff because of the holiday.
I couldn't remember if it was then or the last Sunday Night game that determined who went to the playoffs.
Networks tend not to broadcast the anthem unless it's some sort of 'event' game. Generally the playoffs and sometimes holidays. NASCAR does it all the time, plus the invocation, but basically that's because it's tied into the 'start your engines' call.
For footbaw, I believe they also show it on MNF. But they're pretty desperate for broadcasting anything for that game. Otherwise, until recently, regular season games never really happened because as mentioned, the ceremony itself prevents them from getting another two or three commercials in.
Every. Single. American. Including President Trump, Colin Kaepernick, and my brothers in arms overseas who are wondering, "what in the hell is going on back there?" I'm sitting in the same chair, in the same apartment that I sat in almost a year ago when I wrote an open letter to Colin Kaepernick. I was hurt when I saw him sitting on the bench during the national anthem, but I'm much more hurt now. Not by him, not by where we're at now with the protests, but by us.
Simply put, it seems like we just hate each other; and that is far more painful to me than any protest, or demonstration, or rally, or tweet. We're told to pick a side, there's a line drawn in the sand "are you with us or against us?" It's just not who we are, or at least who we're supposed to be; we're supposed to be better than that, we're Americans. This doesn't even seem to be about right or wrong, but more about right or left.
Today it feels like this national divide isn't even really about the anthem, or the flag, or kneeling, or sitting, or fists in the air. It's not about President Donald Trump, it's not about Colin Kaepernick, it's not about the military, or even police brutality. It feels like it's about winning. That's what makes America so great, our sheer competitiveness. We're winners, and we won't quit until victory is ours.
We see it in sports everyday, we "live and die" by the outcomes of our teams. That desire to win at all cost is costing us greatly now among our neighbors. This winning mentality seems to have spilled over into an obsession with being right and not willing to admit that maybe, just maybe we were wrong. We repeat mantras to ourselves like, "no matter what I will never ever surrender."
Earlier this week I sat down with a group of five Combat Arms and Special Operations Veterans. The round table discussed our individual feelings on the flag, the anthem, and the players who knelt when it was played. We all had very different takes, but what surprised me most at the end of the discussion was that we all agreed on one thing. Colin Kaepernick and President Trump should be the ones uniting our country together. Wait...what? I know it sounds crazy, but maybe that's exactly what we need to see. Maybe that's how we start to heal. Two men sit in a room and talk, simple as that.
That's how it all started with Colin and I, neither of us knew that kneeling would be the result of our conversation. Colin wanted to sit, I wanted him to stand, and so we found a common ground on a knee alongside his teammates. I believe that progress and real change happens in this world when you reach across the divide, you build a bridge, you swallow your pride, you open your mind, you embrace what you don't understand, and ultimately you surrender.
To deploy overseas, train, live with, fight alongside, and ultimately defend foreigners that you have little in common with is truly a challenging task. But returning home to a country that is so divided, so judgmental, and so hateful of one another is almost as difficult to deal with as burying a fallen comrade.
You can tell his heart is in the right place but he doesn't get the magnitude of what's going on. Like so many white people there's the regurgitation of what your elementary school teacher told you, that it takes two people to have a fight.
Along with a tremendous amount of naivete about his Commander in Chief, but i can forgive him that being that he's a soldier and his deeply engrained respect for the office can warp his view of the manbaby currently squatting there.
Honestly I think this guy's letter has a lot more wrong than right
"It's not about police brutality"
Yes it is. It absolutely is. It's about politics, it's about left and right, it's about racism, it's not about just sitting down and talking as if that makes Trump less of a fascist bastard or the Police less likely to shoot black people on a whim.
I remember everybody making fun of Aretha Franklin taking forever to perform the national anthem last season before a Lions game. I assume they only showed it because it was Aretha Franklin performing.
The reactions to that really highlight how it's not about respecting the anthem.
I think it was the Thanksgiving game, which is generally weird with broadcasting and they do that stuff because of the holiday.
I couldn't remember if it was then or the last Sunday Night game that determined who went to the playoffs.
Networks tend not to broadcast the anthem unless it's some sort of 'event' game. Generally the playoffs and sometimes holidays. NASCAR does it all the time, plus the invocation, but basically that's because it's tied into the 'start your engines' call.
For footbaw, I believe they also show it on MNF. But they're pretty desperate for broadcasting anything for that game. Otherwise, until recently, regular season games never really happened because as mentioned, the ceremony itself prevents them from getting another two or three commercials in.
NASCAR shows the anthem because there is an incredibly strong sense of the sport only being possible because of America, from it's beginnings as bootleggers getting together to see who's car is fastest to it's current corporate incarnation, and they aren't exactly wrong about that. I have seen broadcasts where the invocation and even the 'start your engines' call were missed, but I don't remember the anthem ever being missed.
If it means anything to this thread the games just aren't televising the anthem anymore.
Which would have been the smartest move for them from the get go. Say nothing, stop televising the anthem and just act like nothing is happening. No fuss, no culture war, no story because if it's not on TV Trump doesn't believe it's real.
Like "controversial" which is now media code for "batshit crazy", "partisan" is now media code for "Republicans freaking the fuck out over some petty bullshit."
Do people really care about the anthem or the flag or do they just not like uppity brown folks using their voices and their platform to call for justice? Next time on Hard Copy.
edit:
That guy is the trifecta.
Jets fan
Sitting on the flag like it's a picnic blanket
and worst of all, drinking beer through a fucking straw.
I remember everybody making fun of Aretha Franklin taking forever to perform the national anthem last season before a Lions game. I assume they only showed it because it was Aretha Franklin performing.
The reactions to that really highlight how it's not about respecting the anthem.
I think it was the Thanksgiving game, which is generally weird with broadcasting and they do that stuff because of the holiday.
I couldn't remember if it was then or the last Sunday Night game that determined who went to the playoffs.
Networks tend not to broadcast the anthem unless it's some sort of 'event' game. Generally the playoffs and sometimes holidays. NASCAR does it all the time, plus the invocation, but basically that's because it's tied into the 'start your engines' call.
For footbaw, I believe they also show it on MNF. But they're pretty desperate for broadcasting anything for that game. Otherwise, until recently, regular season games never really happened because as mentioned, the ceremony itself prevents them from getting another two or three commercials in.
NASCAR shows the anthem because there is an incredibly strong sense of the sport only being possible because of America, from it's beginnings as bootleggers getting together to see who's car is fastest to it's current corporate incarnation, and they aren't exactly wrong about that. I have seen broadcasts where the invocation and even the 'start your engines' call were missed, but I don't remember the anthem ever being missed.
Well, I don't watch nearly as often as I used to so I'll take your word for it. I only know that when I do watch, the whole thing is always broadcast.
Do people really care about the anthem or the flag or do they just not like uppity brown folks using their voices and their platform to call for justice? Next time on Hard Copy.
edit:
That guy is the trifecta.
Jets fan
Sitting on the flag like it's a picnic blanket
and worst of all, drinking beer through a fucking straw.
I don't find these types of arguments compelling. The controversy is about intent. It is not at all the same to put aside societal norms out of ignorance or laziness then to deliberately break them in an effort to call attention to your cause. People are mad because kaepernick was using the anthem (in a mildly negative way) for his protest, not because him kneeling is some huge sign of disrespect.
Which is also why it doesn't matter that kneeling is normally seen in a positive light, as in it is a way to show ones respect in many other situations. Doesn't really matter because his goal was to say america is not great by protesting in some way during the anthem, and that was always going to piss some people off.
None of which is to say I agree with the backlash. I am 100% for his right to kneel, and for why he did it; which I am interpreting as bringing forth a conversation about race inequalities. All good things in my book, but sitting on a flag you brought as prop to a football game is not at all the same as protest kneeling during an anthem.
"The world is a mess, and I just need to rule it" - Dr Horrible
Do people really care about the anthem or the flag or do they just not like uppity brown folks using their voices and their platform to call for justice? Next time on Hard Copy.
edit:
That guy is the trifecta.
Jets fan
Sitting on the flag like it's a picnic blanket
and worst of all, drinking beer through a fucking straw.
I don't find these types of arguments compelling. The controversy is about intent. It is not at all the same to put aside societal norms out of ignorance or laziness then to deliberately break them in an effort to call attention to your cause. People are mad because kaepernick was using the anthem (in a mildly negative way) for his protest, not because him kneeling is some huge sign of disrespect.
Which is also why it doesn't matter that kneeling is normally seen in a positive light, as in it is a way to show ones respect in many other situations. Doesn't really matter because his goal was to say america is not great by protesting in some way during the anthem, and that was always going to piss some people off.
None of which is to say I agree with the backlash. I am 100% for his right to kneel, and for why he did it; which I am interpreting as bringing forth a conversation about race inequalities. All good things in my book, but sitting on a flag you brought as prop to a football game is not at all the same as protest kneeling during an anthem.
They are?
Cause ya might want to to talk to, like, people before you say stuff like this. Cause what they've all been complaining about is the disrespect.
Do people really care about the anthem or the flag or do they just not like uppity brown folks using their voices and their platform to call for justice? Next time on Hard Copy.
edit:
That guy is the trifecta.
Jets fan
Sitting on the flag like it's a picnic blanket
and worst of all, drinking beer through a fucking straw.
I don't find these types of arguments compelling. The controversy is about intent. It is not at all the same to put aside societal norms out of ignorance or laziness then to deliberately break them in an effort to call attention to your cause. People are mad because kaepernick was using the anthem (in a mildly negative way) for his protest, not because him kneeling is some huge sign of disrespect.
Which is also why it doesn't matter that kneeling is normally seen in a positive light, as in it is a way to show ones respect in many other situations. Doesn't really matter because his goal was to say america is not great by protesting in some way during the anthem, and that was always going to piss some people off.
None of which is to say I agree with the backlash. I am 100% for his right to kneel, and for why he did it; which I am interpreting as bringing forth a conversation about race inequalities. All good things in my book, but sitting on a flag you brought as prop to a football game is not at all the same as protest kneeling during an anthem.
I think the comparison to be made is:
Colin Kaepernick knelt during the national anthem to protest racial injustice in America.
This guy's sitting on the American flag because he doesn't want his pants to touch grass.
So, if you're mad about Colin Kaepernick saying that America is not great, then take on the message and shut the fuck up about the anthem. Or if you're mad about the anthem, get your ass off of the flag. This guy doesn't even get to the point where you ask whether it's the message or the medium; standing for the national anthem is an empty gesture when you then sit on the flag; it's an immediate fail.
I didn't intend to use the picture for some. Insightful commentary.
I just thought it was funny and there was a little nugget of truth that many people of the Trumpian mindset don't actually give a shit about the anthem or the flag beyond 'Merica! and someone used their private nationalist prayer time to make a statement and they didn't like it.
Do people really care about the anthem or the flag or do they just not like uppity brown folks using their voices and their platform to call for justice? Next time on Hard Copy.
edit:
That guy is the trifecta.
Jets fan
Sitting on the flag like it's a picnic blanket
and worst of all, drinking beer through a fucking straw.
I don't find these types of arguments compelling. The controversy is about intent. It is not at all the same to put aside societal norms out of ignorance or laziness then to deliberately break them in an effort to call attention to your cause. People are mad because kaepernick was using the anthem (in a mildly negative way) for his protest, not because him kneeling is some huge sign of disrespect.
Which is also why it doesn't matter that kneeling is normally seen in a positive light, as in it is a way to show ones respect in many other situations. Doesn't really matter because his goal was to say america is not great by protesting in some way during the anthem, and that was always going to piss some people off.
None of which is to say I agree with the backlash. I am 100% for his right to kneel, and for why he did it; which I am interpreting as bringing forth a conversation about race inequalities. All good things in my book, but sitting on a flag you brought as prop to a football game is not at all the same as protest kneeling during an anthem.
They are?
Cause ya might want to to talk to, like, people before you say stuff like this. Cause what they've all been complaining about is the disrespect.
Sure, as in the disrespect shown by protesting during the anthem. The disrespect of showing, in some mild way, that you don't think america is great. I understand that many people are saying literally "kneeling is disrespectful during the anthem", but anyone I've talked to about the situation if you actually engage them it's not about the act itself but what it means. Which is why you can have a totally consistent position that says "I am angry that you are kneeling", but also "I have a flag that I use as a towel occasionally". It's not inconsistent if what matters is intent.
I guess we can all have a laugh because it seems like a contradiction, but no one on the other side of the argument see's it that way, and I'm just putting forth what I see as the reason why.
"The world is a mess, and I just need to rule it" - Dr Horrible
Do people really care about the anthem or the flag or do they just not like uppity brown folks using their voices and their platform to call for justice? Next time on Hard Copy.
edit:
That guy is the trifecta.
Jets fan
Sitting on the flag like it's a picnic blanket
and worst of all, drinking beer through a fucking straw.
I don't find these types of arguments compelling. The controversy is about intent. It is not at all the same to put aside societal norms out of ignorance or laziness then to deliberately break them in an effort to call attention to your cause. People are mad because kaepernick was using the anthem (in a mildly negative way) for his protest, not because him kneeling is some huge sign of disrespect.
Which is also why it doesn't matter that kneeling is normally seen in a positive light, as in it is a way to show ones respect in many other situations. Doesn't really matter because his goal was to say america is not great by protesting in some way during the anthem, and that was always going to piss some people off.
None of which is to say I agree with the backlash. I am 100% for his right to kneel, and for why he did it; which I am interpreting as bringing forth a conversation about race inequalities. All good things in my book, but sitting on a flag you brought as prop to a football game is not at all the same as protest kneeling during an anthem.
I think the comparison to be made is:
Colin Kaepernick knelt during the national anthem to protest racial injustice in America.
This guy's sitting on the American flag because he doesn't want his pants to touch grass.
So, if you're mad about Colin Kaepernick saying that America is not great, then take on the message and shut the fuck up about the anthem. Or if you're mad about the anthem, get your ass off of the flag. This guy doesn't even get to the point where you ask whether it's the message or the medium; standing for the national anthem is an empty gesture when you then sit on the flag; it's an immediate fail.
I guess I would say it's more about the timing of the message. They don't give a shit what kapernick thinks, but using this moment in time to voice his displeasure is disrespectful to them. He can talk about his message all he wants, just not during the anthem.
In the same way we might say it was disrespectful for kaepernick to set a flag on fire, or blare an MLK jr speach at incredible volumes during a military funeral. Even if his intent was the same, to get out a message about racial inequality, the timing and way of the protest can be disrespectful.
Although I guess at some point you are just using disrespectful as an excuse, and maybe the best way to point out that it's just an excuse and not real is to show someone doing something that seems about the same level of disrespectful. Hmm. Well it's too late now, too much work to delete the first part.
"The world is a mess, and I just need to rule it" - Dr Horrible
'Disrespect' is a lie they use to dismiss the concerns of the oppressed. If they were more transparent, they'd be made of glass. 'They're disrespecting the country!' is the 'economic anxiety' of criticizing protests. Meaning that it's BS and rooted in racism.
The simple fact is, it doesn't matter how Kaepernick protested, it's the fact that it got attention and they didn't want to listen. As far as I remember, no one gave a shit when Kaepernick was just sitting during the anthem. It wasn't until he took a knee and it showed an impact that people started losing their minds over it. The form of the protest does not matter, it's how easy the protest is to ignore. And we see this all the time! Black people march in the streets to protest police brutality? It's loud and it blocks traffic, people are being inconvenienced. Because white inconvenience is, to some, worse than cops murdering black people.
Kaepernick could've stood during the anthem and protested another way, but response would've been the same. They would've attacked the form the protest took and ignored the issues being protested. Becsuse people would rather ignore these issues, because they're messy and uncomfortable to discuss. And since it's not their problem, it's easy to ignore.
Do people really care about the anthem or the flag or do they just not like uppity brown folks using their voices and their platform to call for justice? Next time on Hard Copy.
edit:
That guy is the trifecta.
Jets fan
Sitting on the flag like it's a picnic blanket
and worst of all, drinking beer through a fucking straw.
I don't find these types of arguments compelling. The controversy is about intent. It is not at all the same to put aside societal norms out of ignorance or laziness then to deliberately break them in an effort to call attention to your cause. People are mad because kaepernick was using the anthem (in a mildly negative way) for his protest, not because him kneeling is some huge sign of disrespect.
Which is also why it doesn't matter that kneeling is normally seen in a positive light, as in it is a way to show ones respect in many other situations. Doesn't really matter because his goal was to say america is not great by protesting in some way during the anthem, and that was always going to piss some people off.
None of which is to say I agree with the backlash. I am 100% for his right to kneel, and for why he did it; which I am interpreting as bringing forth a conversation about race inequalities. All good things in my book, but sitting on a flag you brought as prop to a football game is not at all the same as protest kneeling during an anthem.
They are?
Cause ya might want to to talk to, like, people before you say stuff like this. Cause what they've all been complaining about is the disrespect.
Sure, as in the disrespect shown by protesting during the anthem. The disrespect of showing, in some mild way, that you don't think america is great. I understand that many people are saying literally "kneeling is disrespectful during the anthem", but anyone I've talked to about the situation if you actually engage them it's not about the act itself but what it means. Which is why you can have a totally consistent position that says "I am angry that you are kneeling", but also "I have a flag that I use as a towel occasionally". It's not inconsistent if what matters is intent.
I guess we can all have a laugh because it seems like a contradiction, but no one on the other side of the argument see's it that way, and I'm just putting forth what I see as the reason why.
Nothing about what you are saying here explains how it's not inconsistent. They are complaining that Kaepernick disrespected America by kneeling during the national anthem because he is not showing the proper deference to the symbols of America. Symbols like, you know, the flag.
Because at the end of the day it's not about the disrespect of the symbols to them. It's about the disrespect for America, the country that totally doesn't have problems uppity black people should be complaining about and how dare this black man imply otherwise. They don't want him to speak. Their hypocritical claims of disrespect are just an excuse.
After last weekend's games, he had WON. Even if players did protest (and I don't recall hearing that any did), their voices were lost by the networks choosing not to show the anthem. Several owners and coaching staff have said it's unacceptable. The issue was done with, even with Goodell's recent change of stance (that totally wasn't a change, even though it was).
And yet Trump pokes the bear, and doesn't take the win and walk away. Especially after that clusterfuck with Hannity during Retreat. Yeah, I'm aware it wasn't a breach of ACTUAL protocol, but it was f'n hypocritical to joke about it, and talk through it, and then complain about the NFL protests. But hypocrisy (and lying and stupidity) are second nature to this President.
He's already fired shots in the 'war' on Christmas. It's all just chum for the frenzy. Perhaps he really does need to have a genuine legislative victory just so he'd have a real thing to crow about endlessly.
Something I don't get is why kneeling to the flag and anthem is disrespectful. Isn't kneeling to someone or a flag a sign of fealty and respect normally (i.e. kneeling before the crown)?
Because everyone should STAND for the anthem for RESPECT (unless they just sit in their seat, or on an American Flag Towel, because patriotism or some shit, pay no attention to the racism inherent in the systOHHHH NOW I GET IT!).
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
My theory is that for the most part people just hear about the kneeling from someone (whose opinion they perhaps respect a bit) who says that they're outraged! and just without thinking about the Why? the new people adopt the original outrage as their own.
I know I talked to my Uncle who served in Vietnam about the kneeling and he thought that it was offensive. When I brought up the fact that kneeling has afaik never in history been seen as anything other than an extra level of respect he got quiet and admitted that it was a good point.
Because everyone should STAND for the anthem for RESPECT (unless they just sit in their seat, or on an American Flag Towel, because patriotism or some shit, pay no attention to the racism inherent in the systOHHHH NOW I GET IT!).
By the way, that picture of the guy sitting on the flag?
Because everyone should STAND for the anthem for RESPECT (unless they just sit in their seat, or on an American Flag Towel, because patriotism or some shit, pay no attention to the racism inherent in the systOHHHH NOW I GET IT!).
By the way, that picture of the guy sitting on the flag?
It's not a towel.
And his shirt says, specifically, that he stands for the anthem.
Because everyone should STAND for the anthem for RESPECT (unless they just sit in their seat, or on an American Flag Towel, because patriotism or some shit, pay no attention to the racism inherent in the systOHHHH NOW I GET IT!).
By the way, that picture of the guy sitting on the flag?
It's not a towel.
And his shirt says, specifically, that he stands for the anthem.
It's like that numbnuts who had Leveticus 20:13 tattooed on their arm, apparently not knowing that the previous chapter of Leveticus (19:28) specifically prohibits tattoos. Because hating gays is more important than following a coherent moral code. Black players not showing deference is an outrage. You not showing deference is irrelevant.
Hypocrisy and wilful ignorance dominate our society. It's so tiring.
The kneeling only go so much attention because it intruded on a bunch of people's shitty little bubble. These people like to pretend that the status quo they enable doesn't cause problems. Sports is supposed to be another safe space where they don't have to think about the problems facing others or do any introspection and contemplate whether the policies they advocate or passively enable are harmful. These are probably the same people that get pissy about any sort of protest, even if the protest doesn't impede their daily routine.
It's kind of ironic, if they dislike this stuff so much, the easiest trick available to them would be to acknowledge there is a problem and put some effort forth to fix it. Granted these are people that also believe they are never wrong. If something goes wrong, it's someone else's fault, even if it makes no fucking sense to blame anyone but themselves.
In an interview with TIME magazine, the Alabama Republican argued that NFL players and others who have protested police violence are violating a section of the U.S. code which outlines how people should conduct themselves when the anthem is played. (The code merely outlines proper etiquette, and there are no legal penalties outlined in the law.)
"It’s against the law, you know that?" he said. "It was a act of Congress that every man stand and put their hand over their heart. That’s the law."
[...]
"I back the President in upholding respect for the patriotism for our country, on two grounds," he said. "One, it’s respect for the law. If we don’t respect the law, what kind of country are we going to have? Two, it’s respect for those who have fallen and given the ultimate sacrifice. I’m surprised that no one brought this up."
He added that it's a matter of the "the rule of law."
"If they didn’t have it in there, it would just be tradition. But this is law," he said. "If we disobey this, what else are we going to disobey?
Irony then trudged itself behind the shed and took its own life:
Moore, who gained national notoriety when he defied a court order to remove a monument of the Ten Commandments from courthouse grounds and later when he continued to enforce a gay-marriage ban that had been overturned by the Supreme Court, said he fully supports Trump's criticism.
What else are we going to disobey?
It was a act of Congress that every man stand and put their hand over their heart. That’s the law.
There are two things I like about that bit, one is how so many people confuse the 'rules' for the Pledge of Allegiance for the National Anthem regarding the hand over the heart. The other is that all the ladies are exempt from the law. Further proof how unfair things are for men!
Anyway...current polls show his opponent, Doug Jones, is much closer than anybody would have thought. This should help, right?
In an interview with TIME magazine, the Alabama Republican argued that NFL players and others who have protested police violence are violating a section of the U.S. code which outlines how people should conduct themselves when the anthem is played. (The code merely outlines proper etiquette, and there are no legal penalties outlined in the law.)
"It’s against the law, you know that?" he said. "It was a act of Congress that every man stand and put their hand over their heart. That’s the law."
[...]
"I back the President in upholding respect for the patriotism for our country, on two grounds," he said. "One, it’s respect for the law. If we don’t respect the law, what kind of country are we going to have? Two, it’s respect for those who have fallen and given the ultimate sacrifice. I’m surprised that no one brought this up."
He added that it's a matter of the "the rule of law."
"If they didn’t have it in there, it would just be tradition. But this is law," he said. "If we disobey this, what else are we going to disobey?
Irony then trudged itself behind the shed and took its own life:
Moore, who gained national notoriety when he defied a court order to remove a monument of the Ten Commandments from courthouse grounds and later when he continued to enforce a gay-marriage ban that had been overturned by the Supreme Court, said he fully supports Trump's criticism.
What else are we going to disobey?
It was a act of Congress that every man stand and put their hand over their heart. That’s the law.
There are two things I like about that bit, one is how so many people confuse the 'rules' for the Pledge of Allegiance for the National Anthem regarding the hand over the heart. The other is that all the ladies are exempt from the law. Further proof how unfair things are for men!
Anyway...current polls show his opponent, Doug Jones, is much closer than anybody would have thought. This should help, right?
In Alabama? Where partisan politics is almost entirely divided by race?
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
If DNC puts any more than a token effort into picking up that seat, I'll be shocked. They'll congratulate themselves for not trying.
Honestly, it seems the more the DNC and out of state donors try to push in these races, the worse it ends. It motivates the right's base turnout wise, and pushes moderates that might have otherwise voted democrat to vote for the republican (ignoring of course the RNC and out of state influence that helped them).
Posts
I was just going to ask, any reports of players protesting anyway? Or did the threats from the Shield back them off, and Trump gets a victory for nationalism/jingoism?
Because an enforced salute to the flag sure as shit ain't patriotism.
The reactions to that really highlight how it's not about respecting the anthem.
{Twitter, Everybody's doing it. }{Writing and Story Blog}
Which would have been the smartest move for them from the get go. Say nothing, stop televising the anthem and just act like nothing is happening. No fuss, no culture war, no story because if it's not on TV Trump doesn't believe it's real.
Instead you get shit like this:
https://www.salon.com/2017/10/12/new-poll-says-anger-over-nfl-protests-isnt-just-a-race-thing-its-an-age-thing/
Issue has become crazy partisan. The Pod Save America guys were mentioning some poll saying Republicans hate the NFL now.
I think it was the Thanksgiving game, which is generally weird with broadcasting and they do that stuff because of the holiday.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/11/upshot/trump-nfl-polarization.html
That's the story they are talking about.
I couldn't remember if it was then or the last Sunday Night game that determined who went to the playoffs.
{Twitter, Everybody's doing it. }{Writing and Story Blog}
Networks tend not to broadcast the anthem unless it's some sort of 'event' game. Generally the playoffs and sometimes holidays. NASCAR does it all the time, plus the invocation, but basically that's because it's tied into the 'start your engines' call.
For footbaw, I believe they also show it on MNF. But they're pretty desperate for broadcasting anything for that game. Otherwise, until recently, regular season games never really happened because as mentioned, the ceremony itself prevents them from getting another two or three commercials in.
Honestly I think this guy's letter has a lot more wrong than right
"It's not about police brutality"
Yes it is. It absolutely is. It's about politics, it's about left and right, it's about racism, it's not about just sitting down and talking as if that makes Trump less of a fascist bastard or the Police less likely to shoot black people on a whim.
This guy is exactly as naïve as I'd expect.
NASCAR shows the anthem because there is an incredibly strong sense of the sport only being possible because of America, from it's beginnings as bootleggers getting together to see who's car is fastest to it's current corporate incarnation, and they aren't exactly wrong about that. I have seen broadcasts where the invocation and even the 'start your engines' call were missed, but I don't remember the anthem ever being missed.
Like "controversial" which is now media code for "batshit crazy", "partisan" is now media code for "Republicans freaking the fuck out over some petty bullshit."
Do people really care about the anthem or the flag or do they just not like uppity brown folks using their voices and their platform to call for justice? Next time on Hard Copy.
edit:
That guy is the trifecta.
Jets fan
Sitting on the flag like it's a picnic blanket
and worst of all, drinking beer through a fucking straw.
Well, I don't watch nearly as often as I used to so I'll take your word for it. I only know that when I do watch, the whole thing is always broadcast.
I don't find these types of arguments compelling. The controversy is about intent. It is not at all the same to put aside societal norms out of ignorance or laziness then to deliberately break them in an effort to call attention to your cause. People are mad because kaepernick was using the anthem (in a mildly negative way) for his protest, not because him kneeling is some huge sign of disrespect.
Which is also why it doesn't matter that kneeling is normally seen in a positive light, as in it is a way to show ones respect in many other situations. Doesn't really matter because his goal was to say america is not great by protesting in some way during the anthem, and that was always going to piss some people off.
None of which is to say I agree with the backlash. I am 100% for his right to kneel, and for why he did it; which I am interpreting as bringing forth a conversation about race inequalities. All good things in my book, but sitting on a flag you brought as prop to a football game is not at all the same as protest kneeling during an anthem.
They are?
Cause ya might want to to talk to, like, people before you say stuff like this. Cause what they've all been complaining about is the disrespect.
I think the comparison to be made is:
Colin Kaepernick knelt during the national anthem to protest racial injustice in America.
This guy's sitting on the American flag because he doesn't want his pants to touch grass.
So, if you're mad about Colin Kaepernick saying that America is not great, then take on the message and shut the fuck up about the anthem. Or if you're mad about the anthem, get your ass off of the flag. This guy doesn't even get to the point where you ask whether it's the message or the medium; standing for the national anthem is an empty gesture when you then sit on the flag; it's an immediate fail.
I didn't intend to use the picture for some. Insightful commentary.
I just thought it was funny and there was a little nugget of truth that many people of the Trumpian mindset don't actually give a shit about the anthem or the flag beyond 'Merica! and someone used their private nationalist prayer time to make a statement and they didn't like it.
Sure, as in the disrespect shown by protesting during the anthem. The disrespect of showing, in some mild way, that you don't think america is great. I understand that many people are saying literally "kneeling is disrespectful during the anthem", but anyone I've talked to about the situation if you actually engage them it's not about the act itself but what it means. Which is why you can have a totally consistent position that says "I am angry that you are kneeling", but also "I have a flag that I use as a towel occasionally". It's not inconsistent if what matters is intent.
I guess we can all have a laugh because it seems like a contradiction, but no one on the other side of the argument see's it that way, and I'm just putting forth what I see as the reason why.
I guess I would say it's more about the timing of the message. They don't give a shit what kapernick thinks, but using this moment in time to voice his displeasure is disrespectful to them. He can talk about his message all he wants, just not during the anthem.
In the same way we might say it was disrespectful for kaepernick to set a flag on fire, or blare an MLK jr speach at incredible volumes during a military funeral. Even if his intent was the same, to get out a message about racial inequality, the timing and way of the protest can be disrespectful.
Although I guess at some point you are just using disrespectful as an excuse, and maybe the best way to point out that it's just an excuse and not real is to show someone doing something that seems about the same level of disrespectful. Hmm. Well it's too late now, too much work to delete the first part.
The simple fact is, it doesn't matter how Kaepernick protested, it's the fact that it got attention and they didn't want to listen. As far as I remember, no one gave a shit when Kaepernick was just sitting during the anthem. It wasn't until he took a knee and it showed an impact that people started losing their minds over it. The form of the protest does not matter, it's how easy the protest is to ignore. And we see this all the time! Black people march in the streets to protest police brutality? It's loud and it blocks traffic, people are being inconvenienced. Because white inconvenience is, to some, worse than cops murdering black people.
Kaepernick could've stood during the anthem and protested another way, but response would've been the same. They would've attacked the form the protest took and ignored the issues being protested. Becsuse people would rather ignore these issues, because they're messy and uncomfortable to discuss. And since it's not their problem, it's easy to ignore.
Nothing about what you are saying here explains how it's not inconsistent. They are complaining that Kaepernick disrespected America by kneeling during the national anthem because he is not showing the proper deference to the symbols of America. Symbols like, you know, the flag.
Because at the end of the day it's not about the disrespect of the symbols to them. It's about the disrespect for America, the country that totally doesn't have problems uppity black people should be complaining about and how dare this black man imply otherwise. They don't want him to speak. Their hypocritical claims of disrespect are just an excuse.
After last weekend's games, he had WON. Even if players did protest (and I don't recall hearing that any did), their voices were lost by the networks choosing not to show the anthem. Several owners and coaching staff have said it's unacceptable. The issue was done with, even with Goodell's recent change of stance (that totally wasn't a change, even though it was).
And yet Trump pokes the bear, and doesn't take the win and walk away. Especially after that clusterfuck with Hannity during Retreat. Yeah, I'm aware it wasn't a breach of ACTUAL protocol, but it was f'n hypocritical to joke about it, and talk through it, and then complain about the NFL protests. But hypocrisy (and lying and stupidity) are second nature to this President.
This f'n guy.
I know I talked to my Uncle who served in Vietnam about the kneeling and he thought that it was offensive. When I brought up the fact that kneeling has afaik never in history been seen as anything other than an extra level of respect he got quiet and admitted that it was a good point.
By the way, that picture of the guy sitting on the flag?
It's not a towel.
And his shirt says, specifically, that he stands for the anthem.
Hypocrisy and wilful ignorance dominate our society. It's so tiring.
EDIT: Apparently the tattoo was 18:22.
It's kind of ironic, if they dislike this stuff so much, the easiest trick available to them would be to acknowledge there is a problem and put some effort forth to fix it. Granted these are people that also believe they are never wrong. If something goes wrong, it's someone else's fault, even if it makes no fucking sense to blame anyone but themselves.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
Irony then trudged itself behind the shed and took its own life:
What else are we going to disobey?
There are two things I like about that bit, one is how so many people confuse the 'rules' for the Pledge of Allegiance for the National Anthem regarding the hand over the heart. The other is that all the ladies are exempt from the law. Further proof how unfair things are for men!
Anyway...current polls show his opponent, Doug Jones, is much closer than anybody would have thought. This should help, right?
In Alabama? Where partisan politics is almost entirely divided by race?
Honestly, it seems the more the DNC and out of state donors try to push in these races, the worse it ends. It motivates the right's base turnout wise, and pushes moderates that might have otherwise voted democrat to vote for the republican (ignoring of course the RNC and out of state influence that helped them).
That's like what? 1 line on a bench? I don't know how sports work.