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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2017
    Taranis wrote: »
    GOTG2 is not up on Netflix right now, despite what this thread has advertised :|

    It's up for me. At least in the US.

    Weird, it's not loading up on my console despite me deliberating searching for the name verbatim. Let me try rebooting it...

    EDIT: Nope, I couldn't find it on my PS4 at all. I had to start the movie using that link on my computer, let it run for a minute, close the window, open Netflix on my PS4, and then resume the movie from there.

    :\

    But thanks for the link! It was a life saver.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    I like The Ranch. It's been described as a red state comedy, which I find misleading. It's about blue state kids reconciling with a red state dad. The problem is, Masterson's character was the most interesting. If you watch Shameless, he's like Lip. Smart and talented at his craft, complete fuck up alcoholic. Writing him out is the right thing to do, but it's going to kill the show.

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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Taranis wrote: »
    Taranis wrote: »
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    Altered Carbon and, for that matter, Richard K. Morgan in general, are hardly pillars of the genre.

    Yeah. I couldn't bring myself to finish that book and I love me some cyberpunk.

    The teaser is pretty good at showing why. Maybe I'd check out the show, but I don't have high hopes.

    Haven't read the book so I don't have an opinion on the work itself though I found the IP intriguing. What matters is how it's executed, maybe you'll like it this format? Sometimes adaptions are improved on the originals RE: Guardians of the Galaxy.

    It seemed to spend a lot of time objectifying women. That teaser did the same. It might be better, but as I said I don't have high hopes.

    That's fair.

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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    I like The Ranch. It's been described as a red state comedy, which I find misleading. It's about blue state kids reconciling with a red state dad. The problem is, Masterson's character was the most interesting. If you watch Shameless, he's like Lip. Smart and talented at his craft, complete fuck up alcoholic. Writing him out is the right thing to do, but it's going to kill the show.

    Shameless (U.S.) felt like it wrested on William H. Macy, and Emmy Russom IMO. Lip's an excellent character, but the show would go on without him.

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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    I like The Ranch. It's been described as a red state comedy, which I find misleading. It's about blue state kids reconciling with a red state dad. The problem is, Masterson's character was the most interesting. If you watch Shameless, he's like Lip. Smart and talented at his craft, complete fuck up alcoholic. Writing him out is the right thing to do, but it's going to kill the show.

    Shameless (U.S.) felt like it wrested on William H. Macy, and Emmy Russom IMO. Lip's an excellent character, but the show would go on without him.

    Nowendays, Macy could probably leave Shameless and the show would be fine; his arcs are largely resolved and
    he's been living on borrowed time for three seasons anyway.

    In his absence, though, you probably couldn't afford to lose Lip OR Ian.

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    ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    The new sidebar on the Netflix App is literally all I've ever wanted. Best update ever.

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    VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    I like The Ranch. It's been described as a red state comedy, which I find misleading. It's about blue state kids reconciling with a red state dad. The problem is, Masterson's character was the most interesting. If you watch Shameless, he's like Lip. Smart and talented at his craft, complete fuck up alcoholic. Writing him out is the right thing to do, but it's going to kill the show.

    I agree to a certain extent but at the same time the way the show is set up they could easily write in basically anyone to replace him as another high school buddy of Kutcher's character. It's going to come down to the writing, but it won't necessarily kill the show.

    Alternatively, Kurtwood Smith hasn't made an appearance yet and watching him and Sam Elliot square off would be highly entertaining.

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    Skull2185Skull2185 Registered User regular
    I was talking with my cousin the other day about old TV shows, and I mentioned that I wished someone would make a cool new Twilight Zone show. He said "Black Mirror is probably what you're looking for" so I checked it out yesterday after finishing The Punisher.

    Watched two episodes and... ehhh I dunno. The first episode was just about a guy having to fuck a pig. Second episode was a neat idea, though. I've heard praise for this show before, so I'm assuming it gets better? Little underwhelmed so far, tbh.

    Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    I was talking with my cousin the other day about old TV shows, and I mentioned that I wished someone would make a cool new Twilight Zone show. He said "Black Mirror is probably what you're looking for" so I checked it out yesterday after finishing The Punisher.

    Watched two episodes and... ehhh I dunno. The first episode was just about a guy having to fuck a pig. Second episode was a neat idea, though. I've heard praise for this show before, so I'm assuming it gets better? Little underwhelmed so far, tbh.

    There's the Outer Limits from the 90's

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dzxGlcErUo

    and Jordan Peele is going to be the show runner for Lovecraft Country.

    http://deadline.com/2017/05/jordan-peele-lovecraft-country-hbo-series-misha-green-1202095066/
    There is connective tissue to Peele’s breakout genre feature Get Out, which brought a Black Lives Matter theme to the horror genre. Lovecraft Country, the 2016 novel from Matt Ruff, focuses on 25-year-old Atticus Black. After his father goes missing, Black joins up with his friend Letitia and his Uncle George to embark on a road trip across 1950s Jim Crow America to find him. This begins a struggle to survive and overcome both the racist terrors of white America and the malevolent spirits that could be ripped from a Lovecraft paperback. The goal is an anthological horror series that reclaims genre storytelling from the African-American perspective.

    Peele brought the book to Bad Robot and enlisted Green.

    “When I first read Lovecraft Country I knew it had the potential to be unlike anything else on television,” Green said. “Jordan, JJ, Bad Robot, Warner Bros and HBO are all in the business of pushing the limits when it comes to storytelling, and I am beyond thrilled to be working with them on this project.”

    There are a few horror anthology series in the pipeline coming soon.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX_ZnMuMZc8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWGP9nOGbqo

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    TaminTamin Registered User regular
    edited December 2017
    I had a similar reaction. It was recommended to me to keep going, and I'm pretty happy I did.

    There's no reason to watch every episode if you don't think the premise is interesting; I skipped "nose dive", I think it was called.

    edit: went looking for my thoughts on the first season. I called episode 1 'fine'; episode 2 was good (with caveats), and apparently I hated episode 3. This was October 2016, and off the top of my head I don't seem to remember anything from it, so ymmv.

    Tamin on
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    That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    I'd recommend you start watching Black Mirror's most recent season and working backwards.

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    DunderDunder Registered User regular
    Just saw the "ad" for Dark on Netflix, anyone watched this show? Is it any good? The ad/trailer certainly hits all my buttons but that doesn't necessarily means the show is good.

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    CanadianWolverineCanadianWolverine Registered User regular
    Dunder wrote: »
    Just saw the "ad" for Dark on Netflix, anyone watched this show? Is it any good? The ad/trailer certainly hits all my buttons but that doesn't necessarily means the show is good.

    I tried the first episode and bowed out pretty quickly. Sure, I was already tired, but the dialogue soundtrack wasn't matching the movement of their lips and that always throws me off in a big way. Maybe I didn't give it a chance.

    steam_sig.png
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    ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    Dunder wrote: »
    Just saw the "ad" for Dark on Netflix, anyone watched this show? Is it any good? The ad/trailer certainly hits all my buttons but that doesn't necessarily means the show is good.

    I tried the first episode and bowed out pretty quickly. Sure, I was already tired, but the dialogue soundtrack wasn't matching the movement of their lips and that always throws me off in a big way. Maybe I didn't give it a chance.

    I mean, it was originally a German show. So you were seeing dubbed dialogue. You can always swap to English subtitles and hear the German dialogue if that works better.

    But thats a weird reason to knock a show.

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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    I do not like the animes, there's like three shows and two movies I can think of that I actually like in the genre....

    ....but I actually quite like Attack on Titan. First season is up on Netflix and I did a 14 day Crunchy Roll trial to finish season 2 because fuck Hulu until they fix their UI. I think I watched it over the last two weeks because I was a little under the weather and somehow a misheard lyrics thing came my way of the opening credits (having sex with the bees and the eagles) and despite the lolz it still looked classy and I gave it a shot. It kinda shoots itself in the foot as it goes on but there's still a nice change of pace here to usual animoos. Having watched Evangelion years ago (which sort of added to my disdain of the genre), this feels like the opposite. Fuck your mopey stuff, let's go on pure anger and revenge and kill giants.

    my biggest complaint is really (season 1 & 2 spoilers)

    they kill off way too many people while still keeping the three amigos and a few others ok through plot power, to the point where any new character introduced is just fodder. I appreciate the sense of anyone dying at any time, that was really interesting 5 episodes in and that's new for this type of show, but you have to have some people live, especially these supposedly skilled veterans. Plus when you have four of the recruits turn out to be titans, you're limiting the shit even more. No one from the Levi squad could live, or even those two soldiers who were protecting the recruits at the castle? Allow some background characters to stay alive, not these losers who haven't killed a titan yet.

    Granted I'm waiting for the reveal humans were evil all along and caused all this because derivative storytelling cliches need to appear (the end credit animations to season 2 are setting this up) which will likely tilt me off this series completely but for now kill those sons of bitches and no redemption for traitors.

    But that first opening credit is fantastic (all of them are good really), it's more Spider-Man than Spider-Man is. I'm not gonna discuss it anymore because this is not an anime thread but for someone who doesn't like the genre, this might be worth it for people in a similar boat to me.

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    That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    I'm just about ready to eat crow on this one. Youtube is hiring thousands of people over the next year to moderate and police the site. They hope to have 10,000 people dedicated just to this by the end of 2018. If you remember, I commented about the ADpocalypse a few pages back and lamented that the only real solution to the whole problem is to hire thousands. Well, it seems they are doing just that. The question remains, though. Is to too late?

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/05/technology/google-youtube-hiring-reviewers-offensive-videos/index.html

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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    edited December 2017
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    I was talking with my cousin the other day about old TV shows, and I mentioned that I wished someone would make a cool new Twilight Zone show. He said "Black Mirror is probably what you're looking for" so I checked it out yesterday after finishing The Punisher.

    Watched two episodes and... ehhh I dunno. The first episode was just about a guy having to fuck a pig. Second episode was a neat idea, though. I've heard praise for this show before, so I'm assuming it gets better? Little underwhelmed so far, tbh.

    Even if you don't watch anything else from Black Mirror, watch "San Junipero" and, ah, the Christmas Special with John Hamm. Then make your final decision.

    Dracomicron on
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    LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    I'm just about ready to eat crow on this one. Youtube is hiring thousands of people over the next year to moderate and police the site. They hope to have 10,000 people dedicated just to this by the end of 2018. If you remember, I commented about the ADpocalypse a few pages back and lamented that the only real solution to the whole problem is to hire thousands. Well, it seems they are doing just that. The question remains, though. Is to too late?

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/05/technology/google-youtube-hiring-reviewers-offensive-videos/index.html

    Extremely doubtful. YouTube still has the user base. Since they are showing a willingness to correct their errors, everyone will come back, creators and sponsors alike.

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    HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    I'm just about ready to eat crow on this one. Youtube is hiring thousands of people over the next year to moderate and police the site. They hope to have 10,000 people dedicated just to this by the end of 2018. If you remember, I commented about the ADpocalypse a few pages back and lamented that the only real solution to the whole problem is to hire thousands. Well, it seems they are doing just that. The question remains, though. Is to too late?

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/05/technology/google-youtube-hiring-reviewers-offensive-videos/index.html

    Great, they can hire all of the folks getting laid off by GE.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/07/ge-announces-12000-job-cuts-at-ge-power.html

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    Dizzy DDizzy D NetherlandsRegistered User regular
    Dunder wrote: »
    Just saw the "ad" for Dark on Netflix, anyone watched this show? Is it any good? The ad/trailer certainly hits all my buttons but that doesn't necessarily means the show is good.

    Icemopper and me talked about it on the previous 2 pages, we both liked it. Wally was going to watch it, but hasn't posted their opinion yet.

    Steam/Origin: davydizzy
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    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    I'm about 3-4 episodes into it, and it is quite interesting, though it still seems to be in the setup stage.

    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
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    AphostileAphostile San Francisco, CARegistered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    I'd recommend you start watching Black Mirror's most recent season and working backwards.

    Or just wait until December 29th and THEN start the most recent season.

    Nothing. Matters.
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    metaghostmetaghost An intriguing odor A delicate touchRegistered User regular
    I finished Dark the other night. While I enjoyed it enough to more-or-less binge it, it's hindered a great deal by being 90% setup + a variety of montage depicting people looking mopey in the rain.

    The final scene is also completely bewildering:
    Apparently this was all setup for The Terminator?

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    urahonkyurahonky Resident FF7R hater Registered User regular
    Aphostile wrote: »
    That_Guy wrote: »
    I'd recommend you start watching Black Mirror's most recent season and working backwards.

    Or just wait until December 29th and THEN start the most recent season.

    I'm so confused on how this works. Is that how you're supposed to watch the show? Whenever I pull it up on the app the seasons are backwards to what every other show is.... So it keeps trying to get me to start on episode 1 of the latest season instead of episode 1 of season 1.

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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Altered Carbon has a really fun concept wrapped up in a niorish detective story

    the writer just has a weird sex thing that constantly gets in the way.

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    That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    Aphostile wrote: »
    That_Guy wrote: »
    I'd recommend you start watching Black Mirror's most recent season and working backwards.

    Or just wait until December 29th and THEN start the most recent season.

    I'm so confused on how this works. Is that how you're supposed to watch the show? Whenever I pull it up on the app the seasons are backwards to what every other show is.... So it keeps trying to get me to start on episode 1 of the latest season instead of episode 1 of season 1.

    I think they do that for a reason. It's been like that for a long time now. IMO it's the better way to experience the series. None of the episodes are connected to each other so starting from the latest and working back doesn't affect your ability to follow anything.

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    AphostileAphostile San Francisco, CARegistered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    Aphostile wrote: »
    That_Guy wrote: »
    I'd recommend you start watching Black Mirror's most recent season and working backwards.

    Or just wait until December 29th and THEN start the most recent season.

    I'm so confused on how this works. Is that how you're supposed to watch the show? Whenever I pull it up on the app the seasons are backwards to what every other show is.... So it keeps trying to get me to start on episode 1 of the latest season instead of episode 1 of season 1.

    Oh I just meant because there's a new season coming out on Dec 29th.

    Whenever I recommend anyone watch Black Mirror I tell them to skip episode 1 and come back to it after finishing at least a few others. Fifteen Million Merits, White Bear, Be Right Back, White Christmas are probably some of my favorites. San Junipero is a fun one that doesn't really fit the Black Mirror bleakness, but still great.

    Nothing. Matters.
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    ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    Aphostile wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    Aphostile wrote: »
    That_Guy wrote: »
    I'd recommend you start watching Black Mirror's most recent season and working backwards.

    Or just wait until December 29th and THEN start the most recent season.

    I'm so confused on how this works. Is that how you're supposed to watch the show? Whenever I pull it up on the app the seasons are backwards to what every other show is.... So it keeps trying to get me to start on episode 1 of the latest season instead of episode 1 of season 1.

    Oh I just meant because there's a new season coming out on Dec 29th.

    Whenever I recommend anyone watch Black Mirror I tell them to skip episode 1 and come back to it after finishing at least a few others. Fifteen Million Merits, White Bear, Be Right Back, White Christmas are probably some of my favorites. San Junipero is a fun one that doesn't really fit the Black Mirror bleakness, but still great.

    San Junipero only works after watching a bunch of the other Dark Mirror episodes and I would never recommend someone watch that one first. In fact, I'd recommend they watch it towards the end of their binge.
    Because like you said it doesn't fit the bleakness and is not a good representation of the series. Additionally, it made the sweetness of the episode that much sweeter considering I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop and it to go completely bleak. When it ended happily, I was shocked and it made it that much more impactful, imo.

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    Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited December 2017
    Altered Carbon has a really fun concept wrapped up in a niorish detective story

    the writer just has a weird sex thing that constantly gets in the way.

    His tendency to have a story interspersed with random-ass porn scenes more or less ruined the book for me. I have no clue at all what that author was thinking, none of it added anything of worth to the book.

    The Netflix series will, I'm sure, be far less graphic than the book on that score, but I know they'll still lean way too hard on that crutch of sex scenes over writing for me to be interested in the series, either.

    Ninja Snarl P on
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    RhahRhah Registered User regular
    GOTG2 wouldn't show up on my Xbox Netflix either. Had to add it to my queue on the web and then get it from there. Really annoying. Wonder if they were somehow trying to limit it because of popularity? Would that even matter or help them? /shrug

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    AphostileAphostile San Francisco, CARegistered User regular
    Rhah wrote: »
    GOTG2 wouldn't show up on my Xbox Netflix either. Had to add it to my queue on the web and then get it from there. Really annoying. Wonder if they were somehow trying to limit it because of popularity? Would that even matter or help them? /shrug

    Nah, every single one of Netflix's members could stream a single title at the same time and it wouldn't matter in the slightest.

    It's something to do with our search algorithm not being caught up/cached/indexed? I'm not entirely sure what the issue is/was. It happened with Star Wars too.

    Nothing. Matters.
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    ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    edited December 2017
    Aphostile wrote: »
    Rhah wrote: »
    GOTG2 wouldn't show up on my Xbox Netflix either. Had to add it to my queue on the web and then get it from there. Really annoying. Wonder if they were somehow trying to limit it because of popularity? Would that even matter or help them? /shrug

    Nah, every single one of Netflix's members could stream a single title at the same time and it wouldn't matter in the slightest.

    It's something to do with our search algorithm not being caught up/cached/indexed? I'm not entirely sure what the issue is/was. It happened with Star Wars too.

    This happens ALL THE TIME on my Xbox App whenever a new show releases.

    The new season of Stranger Things was unwatchable (would literally crash the app) for the first week. Most recently I tried to watch Dark the day it released and it crashed the app over and over. I tried again last night and it still crashed the app. Other stuff worked fine. Just the new stuff crashed the app.

    I've tried hard resetting, deleting and reinstalling the app. Nothing ever fixes it.

    ObiFett on
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    DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    metaghost wrote: »
    I finished Dark the other night. While I enjoyed it enough to more-or-less binge it, it's hindered a great deal by being 90% setup + a variety of montage depicting people looking mopey in the rain.

    The final scene is also completely bewildering:
    Apparently this was all setup for The Terminator?

    I got like 15 minutes in and didnt want to deal with a bad dub and dont really have time or energy for subtitles unless something is really good.

    But is this spoiler accurate, or not literally?

    steam_sig.png
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    metaghostmetaghost An intriguing odor A delicate touchRegistered User regular
    metaghost wrote: »
    I finished Dark the other night. While I enjoyed it enough to more-or-less binge it, it's hindered a great deal by being 90% setup + a variety of montage depicting people looking mopey in the rain.

    The final scene is also completely bewildering:
    Apparently this was all setup for The Terminator?

    I got like 15 minutes in and didnt want to deal with a bad dub and dont really have time or energy for subtitles unless something is really good.

    But is this spoiler accurate, or not literally?

    I was being fairly tongue-in-cheek, but —

    Dark Season Finale Spoiler:
    In the final scene, Jonas (the quasi-protagonist) is sent to an unspecified point in the future that is as post-apocalyptic as the show could depict within its budget. As he walks through the burning wasteland, a truck of well-armed dirty humans pulls up, and then a "futuristic" helicopter thing flies overhead. And that helicopter thing looked a lot like the air transportation vehicles depicted in the Terminator films during segments set in John Connor's future.

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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    I haven't watched the finale of Netflix's Godless yet, but it's... Mostly really good? Good performances, interesting characters, it's a western that simultaneously plays it super straight while also being sneakily feminist. It doesn't like, stand up and go "YO we're deconstructing the western over here!", and in some ways its as earnest a celebration of the western genre as I've watched in years, but it does some really cool things.

    The biggest weakness is that it just really over-estimates how interesting it's main sheriffs and robbers storyline is, especially the criminal gang. They get way, way too much screentime, when really I was way more interested in the smaller domestic stories in the town, and I wish the show had spent more time examining some of those stories and how people felt about the ideas it brings up. Really they almost could have gotten rid of the gang plotline almost entirely, crafted it into more of like a feminist response to Deadwood, and I wouldn't have felt the loss one bit.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    I'm an episode away from finishing as well, but there's only two things that annoy me about Godless:

    1) Maggie is awful annoying (though to the show's credit they do even her out as the series goes on)
    2) they still hit the noble savage beat pretty hard with the indians.

    But it's still an A-show, and wow did they make Whitey a great character. Wanted to punch him in the face initially but he might be my favorite character.

    And it's the best show that Turk has been in for Netflix to date.

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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    I'm an episode away from finishing as well, but there's only two things that annoy me about Godless:

    1) Maggie is awful annoying (though to the show's credit they do even her out as the series goes on)
    2) they still hit the noble savage beat pretty hard with the indians.

    But it's still an A-show, and wow did they make Whitey a great character. Wanted to punch him in the face initially but he might be my favorite character.

    And it's the best show that Turk has been in for Netflix to date.

    Regarding one, omg no I love Maggie, she is great.

    Regarding two, it's odd. It feels like it does well in some ways, but there's still an awful lot of generically vague spiritual mumbo-jumbo coming out of Indian characters mouths about white dudes.

    It's kind of an issue with the show in general, it wants to acknowledge a lot of the racial injustice, both with Blackton and the neighboring tribes. But also just so much of the show is taken up with the basic sheriffs and robbers storyline that they never really do more than vaguely acknowledging those ideas.

    And yeah, for as much as a complete fucking putz as Whitey comes across as initially, he turns out to be pretty great.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    So after not using it for a couple weeks I try to log onto the Hulu app on my FireTV and it keeps telling me there's a network error. All my other apps are working fine, and Hulu works on my phone and tablet. How is a company whose whole business model is streaming this bad at this?

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    RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    LostNinja wrote: »
    So after not using it for a couple weeks I try to log onto the Hulu app on my FireTV and it keeps telling me there's a network error. All my other apps are working fine, and Hulu works on my phone and tablet. How is a company whose whole business model is streaming this bad at this?

    Hulu will consistently give me problems when nothing else is. Garbage app.

    RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
    Come Overwatch with meeeee
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    NinjeffNinjeff Registered User regular
    Grand Tour season 2 dropped at 7 o'clock last night.

This discussion has been closed.