Hah, I was playing Chateau Deathmatch earlier, me and the other person playing Junkrat were neck and neck for first the whole time. At one point, I narrowly kill him near one of the jump-plates, then land and die to Junkrat's dead man's switch like an idiot, and almost immediately afterward another player lands right on top of my corpse in time to die to mine. It was just the perfect encapsulation of the zaniness of the trashmouse in that mode. I had to ask the other Junker if he'd saw the full thing on his kill-cam it was so funny.
Also, is it just me or is it asinine that the game will backfill you into solo Deathmatch? At the very least it should stop once someone has more than 5 kills, if you ask me.
If they didn't, you'd see a lot more of what happened to me last week-- namely, that first, second and third (me) got so many kills early on that everyone left and the game was cancelled entirely. I don't like giving salty stragglers veto power over whether the match counts.
Bleh, being backfilled into solo DM feels utterly pointless when people have enough points you can't get a top 4 spot though (like in any team mode I'll try, but in the solo DM I was backfilling I literally got up and walked away until I heard the POTG, because there was no way I could catch up to the top 4 and I didn't want to incur whatever 'leaver' penalties might exist). They shouldn't cancel matches unless all but one player quit; you still get points towards loot boxes for a top-4 finish, so I can't imagine that'd come up very often. Or just end the match early but still give win credit to the top 4 players.
Hah, I was playing Chateau Deathmatch earlier, me and the other person playing Junkrat were neck and neck for first the whole time. At one point, I narrowly kill him near one of the jump-plates, then land and die to Junkrat's dead man's switch like an idiot, and almost immediately afterward another player lands right on top of my corpse in time to die to mine. It was just the perfect encapsulation of the zaniness of the trashmouse in that mode. I had to ask the other Junker if he'd saw the full thing on his kill-cam it was so funny.
Also, is it just me or is it asinine that the game will backfill you into solo Deathmatch? At the very least it should stop once someone has more than 5 kills, if you ask me.
If they didn't, you'd see a lot more of what happened to me last week-- namely, that first, second and third (me) got so many kills early on that everyone left and the game was cancelled entirely. I don't like giving salty stragglers veto power over whether the match counts.
Bleh, being backfilled into solo DM feels utterly pointless when people have enough points you can't get a top 4 spot though (like in any team mode I'll try, but in the solo DM I was backfilling I literally got up and walked away until I heard the POTG, because there was no way I could catch up to the top 4 and I didn't want to incur whatever 'leaver' penalties might exist). They shouldn't cancel matches unless all but one player quit; you still get points towards loot boxes for a top-4 finish, so I can't imagine that'd come up very often. Or just end the match early but still give win credit to the top 4 players.
Yeah, I backfilled into a match where the frontrunner already had 15 kills.
on the flip side of lucio being brazilian or canadian, as a canadian it kinda bums me out that we have basically zero representation in "globetrotting" games that get made in america because they basically perceive us as just being colder americans
on the flip side of lucio being brazilian or canadian, as a canadian it kinda bums me out that we have basically zero representation in "globetrotting" games that get made in america because they basically perceive us as just being colder americans
It'd be nice, but I, as also a Canadian, think Brazil deserves representation more than we do. With only this many characters, more than one of which are American, you just cover more ground and at least approximate representing more people by including one of a South American nationality.
Man. Mystery Heroes was loving me tonight. Two games where I was one of two Torbs. One on the end of Route 66 defense. One from practically the start of Dorado attack, so the cart had a pair of turrets on it basically the whole way. Those were miserable. For the other team.
And ended with two games in a row, zero deaths. DVa on Gibralter, just spent literally the whole thing in their backline doing circuits around medpacks and harassing before doing the classic bomb over the back corner into a triple kill, literally the only time I was out of my mech the entire match. And the second, Lucio on Anubis defense. Also spent the thing Jet Set Radio'ing all over the place and harassing everything and getting to weird places. Managed to sneak up on a Widow on the gate after an enemy team wipe by climbing up to the hovering ship outside the gate and she just grappled up there, not having any clue at all. That was amusing.
Had an awesome game last night. Defending on Junkertown with me on Mercy, a Moira, 2 DPS, a Zarya and my brother on D.Va. The enemy team comes out with Rein, Bastion, Mercy, Moira, an attack Sym and a McCree, and they just push our faces in right past the second checkpoint.
This Bastion is wrecking our shit. I'm 100% he scored PotG wiping 4 of us, my poor Mercy self included, at the first checkpoint. Once they hit the second checkpoint, it's completely obvious that the Sym put her teleporter in that room right there where all the enemies are streaming out of with sparkles coming off them. but the only ones on my team who seem interested in it are me and Moira. By the time the two of us clear out her turrets, the TP's been used up.
Our Zarya goes straight for the Bastion on the payload. I look on, yellow beam hooked up, as she walks out to Bastion on the payload, bubbles herself, gets her bubble shredded and dies. I pull my pistol, take some potshots at the Bastion, die... switch to Tracer.
That payload didn't move another inch. I take down Sym's next teleporter and build a little ult. We push 'em back, and I position myself at the large second checkpoint door, and wait. Rein drops down from above, right in front of me, no idea I'm behind him, and Bastion activates his ult and drops down too.
One clip into the Rein, stick the Pulse Bomb and it takes him out, along with an ult shutdown on the Bastion. I kill the Sym and we regroup.
I'm at 70% ult, about to move in behind the reds as they approach the payload. McCree flashbangs me but I rewind out and take him, accidentally getting a killing blow on the Sym at the same time. Bastion and Mercy are on the payload, and Mercy just activated Valkyrie, but Rein has charged off towards our spawn to duel my brother on D.Va. I start dancing around Bastion, putting clips into him. My ult is at 90% when I kill him.
The ulting Mercy swings around and comes in to rez. I get a perfect midair clip on her, and she dies just after rezzing Bastion, who snaps into turret form as my Pulse Bomb lands on him. I wave and go to deal with the Rein, who dies with a melee strike just as the Victory splash goes up.
A delicious Play of the Game. Didn't include the Rein bit, but it felt so good to stop being a passive little healer, full-counter a Bastion/Rein/Mercy that had been absolutely dominating us, and yank PotG from the cheesy grip of a Bastion. Feels good.
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
I would pay for a service that watched shitty players, clipped their incredibly dumbass mistakes, and showed them after the game "this is the mistake everyone was complaining to you about." Like, I watched a guy go bastion, set up alone, fire into a rein shield, and get instantly vaporized. Then he swapped to Rein and, instead of just raising his shield to a DVA bomb, charged away and died.
Or another guy who, after I baited out death blossom, ran straight into the ulting reaper and died even though he was around the corner when the ult started.
Somehow, I think players would still rationalize it, but man, it would make me feel better. Because when I'm like, "maybe don't run out alone?" they act like they made the optimal play and it was my lack of healing that failed them.
Some people have absolutely no business playing competitive. I just finished my first game on Lijiang Tower tower where I was D.Va tanking and still managed to pull off gold eliminations with 6. I wish that felt good.
Some people have absolutely no business playing competitive. I just finished my first game on Lijiang Tower tower where I was D.Va tanking and still managed to pull off gold eliminations with 6. I wish that felt good.
Elimination = you tagged anyone and then they eventually died. Remember that. The 6 part is a lot more important than the gold..
Yeah, like...if you also had gold damage that might be one thing, but getting 6 kills in 2 rounds and having that be gold means the entire game was fucked, top to bottom.
It means your DPS isn't hitting ANYTHING much less killing it
It can mean a lot of things. Tanks not giving DPS enough time to break through the barriers/walls, healers playing especially exposed and getting immediately picked so the team has no sustain, people staggered/feeding so every push is at a disadvantage and/or met with multiple ults, etc. A game that one-sided is unlikely to fall on the fault of just 1-2 people.
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
I watched the first two maps while finishing up work and it's just a Mercy game right now, and it seemed only a quarter of the characters are used (a combo of DvA/Winston/Mercy/Tracer/76 or Naruto at all times). Nothing stood out outside of the Widowmaker duel going on in the first game on Dorado.
I'd be totally open to them randomly picking one character from the meta each game and not making them playable. After all, Blizzard has shown you can and will be punished for playing a certain character a boom deadeye headshot with a scatter arrow finisher.
I tuned in and immediately lost interest when I noticed both teams were running the same comp. Not one I tend to see in quick play, but that's still pretty dull.
Ran into my first cheater today. Widowmaker who had an 85% accuracy (which she gamed by shooting randomly into the air between fights) with virtually 100% headshots. Reported, obviously, but it was an insanely anti-fun experience. Putting the game away for tonight and watching OWL preseason. Yet another reason I'm leaning toward quitting.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
But I actually agree with a lot of this in regards to DPS mains.
1. A big issue is that DPS makes up a bigger space of characters than tank or healer. Leaving those tanks/supports with fewer options. Even though the roles are all equally important.
2. Its much harder to be impactful with a tank/support and you're much more dependent on your team. So there is less "star player" factor to them.
3. A lot of time "flex" players(or rather folks who just don't want to lose) get forced into roles for the good of the team and that leads to resentment/burnout.
4. Most of the feedback/positive reinforcement from elims to PotG are heavily skewed to favor DPS players. Meaning those roles just "feel" more sastifying at times.
Not sure if all these issues can be fixed easily but I think they are thinks that need to be considered for the future health of the game.
I was thinking about this with HotS lately. They instituted a pretty major across the board nerf to every single support in every single category; damage, health, and healing capability. They go on with it and Overwatch about how they're supposed to be team based games, and you're supposed to work together, so on and so forth, but there are always fewer supports than any other class, a much smaller pool of support (and tank) players, and they act it's the worst thing in the world if supports start to eclipse damage characters in almost any way, like that whole "Ana shouldn't be able to duel Tracer" thing. It speaks to a break in the stated philosophy. Too many people are playing cooperative characters. Cooperative characters are TOO strong versus the Rambos. We can't have that. It's too boring.
I think he's right that Supports/Tanks don't always feel very impactful and aren't rewarded the way that DPS are. I don't think it's as easy to solve as providing random perks like he says though, as that requires a shitload of automated predictive metrics. Some are easy, some are damn near impossible. That'd help some, but I think the real fix is making healers more like general DPS characters, except with abilities more based around assisting their teammates than damaging/hindering enemies. Overwatch's time to kill is so tiny already that I don't know that'll ever happen.
ArcTangent on
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited December 2017
I've been thinking for a while now (mostly in regards to MMOs) that class based games should jettison the idea of dedicated DPS classes entirely, and just make everyone a DPS+whatever other role they fill. But I don't think that's something currently existing games could switch to; it seems like the kind of thing you need to design for from the very beginning.
After watching a bit of that preseason match last night:
Team comps were pretty much identical to what I saw in the World Cup games: Winston, DVa, Mercy, Widowmaker, Tracer. Genji or McCree to sub out for DPS and Lucio or Zenyatta to fill out supports.
Sombra on Point B Anubis defense was not something I had seriously considered before.
December 12:
New Hanzo (casual hanzo!), Roadhog, Junk skins, others
Some sort of Saxton Hale mode, 5 Meis vs 1 Winston
Snowball offensive coming back too
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
1v5 brawl sounds awesome, as much because they're building system support for it as the mode itself. I really wish they would surface a way to play these sorts of modes more often. For example, improve the custom game browser with support for "canonical" presets that you can host and filter on, something more like in Starcraft. Playing pub custom games right now is pointless, there's no consistency or searchability in random strangers' rulesets.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
I hadn't really played much Comp the last few weeks, but I had the day off so I hopped on in the afternoon.
4/5 matches were toxic shitholes.
One had a Winston who kept going AFK. "Chill out, I was just looking at my phone a minute."
One had three awesome Rambo DPSes plus a Rambo tank, who all would solo trickle through the choke (filled with Sym turrets), then pitch a fit about nobody following them.
One started with four people insta-locking DPS, so someone said "Oh, are we going 6 DPS?" So we ended up with 5 DPS and me.
And one was just an entire fucking team of imbeciles. Reinhardt who never shielded. Tracer who would burn all of her blinks going straight into the middle of the enemy. Mercy who ulted to try to escape Deadeye. Lucio off on his own idiocy. And exemplified perhaps no better than our entire team having their ults for the last push, me as Zarya spamming "My ult is ready," we're all grouped up so I start going in, ult, catch three of them... and then nothing. No followup at all. Because the entire rest of my team, with about 10 seconds left, turned around to chase a DVa, who managed to kill three of them with her ult.
The last was dysfunctional (nonsense comp) and uncommunicative, but at least not a complete shitfest like every other match.
And the holiday crapfest hasn't even begun yet. Christ.
That's more like it. Especially since I was having a hard time getting an opening against a super shied-happy Rein. Still not a communicative team at all, but at least they were listening to my callouts. Almost amusingly well on defense.
"Reaper on left with ult."
--entire team immediately scatters --
DIE DIE DIE... for nothing
"Pharah's been saving her ult for Zarya."
Fire at will! JustiYARGH
The gist of the post is they're going to try keeping SR match ups closer for everyone and they're removing performance-based SR...for diamond and above.
I'm sure those 3000+ players will appreciate the change, but I'd like to see it for everyone.
I think it's a good move, the main purpose of the performance-based SR is to allow you to climb the ranks quickly when the system under-ranks you. But in the higher ranks you've probably played enough to be fairly stable and it's less likely that you'll massively over-perform on an individual level, plus more ambiguous factors like teamwork and game sense come into play more strongly.
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
KasynI'm not saying I don't like our chances.She called me the master.Registered Userregular
edited December 2017
I have and will always be in favor of performance adjustments for individuals in any game with a competitive ladder, and will be sad to see it go. If you are at those ranks and for some reason don't feel you can consistently perform above-average on a chosen character to the point where you would benefit from the system, then I don't know what to tell you. I'm not in favor of a system that flattens out my contributions to the level of somebody who troll-picked and we had to carry across the finish line, and if I had a historically shit game and my teammates made up for it, I wouldn't think it's fair that we all get equal recognition. A team that put in a Herculean effort and nearly pulled off a 5v6 with a thrower on their team shouldn't lose as much as the guy tanking SR. Seriously fuck that.
In actual play, the system was not really abused, and certainly not to the level of hysteria it generated. It never made sense to do anything that harmed your team for the sake of padding stats because increasing your chances of losing for a gamble at a marginal additional SR point or two is fucking idiotic. If it incentivized you to pad stats that helped your team win, which it largely did, then the system is serving a positive benefit.
Mostly though it probably won't matter in any kind of huge or detectable way. It's kind of funny that this is getting removed from OW about the same time it's being added into the matchmaking gains for Heroes of the Storm, though.
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Bleh, being backfilled into solo DM feels utterly pointless when people have enough points you can't get a top 4 spot though (like in any team mode I'll try, but in the solo DM I was backfilling I literally got up and walked away until I heard the POTG, because there was no way I could catch up to the top 4 and I didn't want to incur whatever 'leaver' penalties might exist). They shouldn't cancel matches unless all but one player quit; you still get points towards loot boxes for a top-4 finish, so I can't imagine that'd come up very often. Or just end the match early but still give win credit to the top 4 players.
Yeah, I backfilled into a match where the frontrunner already had 15 kills.
I was not pleased.
It'd be nice, but I, as also a Canadian, think Brazil deserves representation more than we do. With only this many characters, more than one of which are American, you just cover more ground and at least approximate representing more people by including one of a South American nationality.
Steam: TimIsOnSteam
Battle.net: TimIsOnBnet#1745
Switch: SW-7012-4788-7410
PSN: TimIsOnTheNet
And ended with two games in a row, zero deaths. DVa on Gibralter, just spent literally the whole thing in their backline doing circuits around medpacks and harassing before doing the classic bomb over the back corner into a triple kill, literally the only time I was out of my mech the entire match. And the second, Lucio on Anubis defense. Also spent the thing Jet Set Radio'ing all over the place and harassing everything and getting to weird places. Managed to sneak up on a Widow on the gate after an enemy team wipe by climbing up to the hovering ship outside the gate and she just grappled up there, not having any clue at all. That was amusing.
It feels weird to get all 9 wins done on Monday.
This Bastion is wrecking our shit. I'm 100% he scored PotG wiping 4 of us, my poor Mercy self included, at the first checkpoint. Once they hit the second checkpoint, it's completely obvious that the Sym put her teleporter in that room right there where all the enemies are streaming out of with sparkles coming off them. but the only ones on my team who seem interested in it are me and Moira. By the time the two of us clear out her turrets, the TP's been used up.
Our Zarya goes straight for the Bastion on the payload. I look on, yellow beam hooked up, as she walks out to Bastion on the payload, bubbles herself, gets her bubble shredded and dies. I pull my pistol, take some potshots at the Bastion, die... switch to Tracer.
That payload didn't move another inch. I take down Sym's next teleporter and build a little ult. We push 'em back, and I position myself at the large second checkpoint door, and wait. Rein drops down from above, right in front of me, no idea I'm behind him, and Bastion activates his ult and drops down too.
One clip into the Rein, stick the Pulse Bomb and it takes him out, along with an ult shutdown on the Bastion. I kill the Sym and we regroup.
I'm at 70% ult, about to move in behind the reds as they approach the payload. McCree flashbangs me but I rewind out and take him, accidentally getting a killing blow on the Sym at the same time. Bastion and Mercy are on the payload, and Mercy just activated Valkyrie, but Rein has charged off towards our spawn to duel my brother on D.Va. I start dancing around Bastion, putting clips into him. My ult is at 90% when I kill him.
The ulting Mercy swings around and comes in to rez. I get a perfect midair clip on her, and she dies just after rezzing Bastion, who snaps into turret form as my Pulse Bomb lands on him. I wave and go to deal with the Rein, who dies with a melee strike just as the Victory splash goes up.
A delicious Play of the Game. Didn't include the Rein bit, but it felt so good to stop being a passive little healer, full-counter a Bastion/Rein/Mercy that had been absolutely dominating us, and yank PotG from the cheesy grip of a Bastion. Feels good.
Or another guy who, after I baited out death blossom, ran straight into the ulting reaper and died even though he was around the corner when the ult started.
Somehow, I think players would still rationalize it, but man, it would make me feel better. Because when I'm like, "maybe don't run out alone?" they act like they made the optimal play and it was my lack of healing that failed them.
The completely inconsequential shit they put in the patch notes while leaving out significant things always amazes.
(Not mentioned: Scatter arrows are now homing missiles)
Elimination = you tagged anyone and then they eventually died. Remember that. The 6 part is a lot more important than the gold..
It can mean a lot of things. Tanks not giving DPS enough time to break through the barriers/walls, healers playing especially exposed and getting immediately picked so the team has no sustain, people staggered/feeding so every push is at a disadvantage and/or met with multiple ults, etc. A game that one-sided is unlikely to fall on the fault of just 1-2 people.
https://overwatchleague.com/en-us/
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
I'd be totally open to them randomly picking one character from the meta each game and not making them playable. After all, Blizzard has shown you can and will be punished for playing a certain character a boom deadeye headshot with a scatter arrow finisher.
Steam: TimIsOnSteam
Battle.net: TimIsOnBnet#1745
Switch: SW-7012-4788-7410
PSN: TimIsOnTheNet
(Hope this video embeds right)
But I actually agree with a lot of this in regards to DPS mains.
1. A big issue is that DPS makes up a bigger space of characters than tank or healer. Leaving those tanks/supports with fewer options. Even though the roles are all equally important.
2. Its much harder to be impactful with a tank/support and you're much more dependent on your team. So there is less "star player" factor to them.
3. A lot of time "flex" players(or rather folks who just don't want to lose) get forced into roles for the good of the team and that leads to resentment/burnout.
4. Most of the feedback/positive reinforcement from elims to PotG are heavily skewed to favor DPS players. Meaning those roles just "feel" more sastifying at times.
Not sure if all these issues can be fixed easily but I think they are thinks that need to be considered for the future health of the game.
I think he's right that Supports/Tanks don't always feel very impactful and aren't rewarded the way that DPS are. I don't think it's as easy to solve as providing random perks like he says though, as that requires a shitload of automated predictive metrics. Some are easy, some are damn near impossible. That'd help some, but I think the real fix is making healers more like general DPS characters, except with abilities more based around assisting their teammates than damaging/hindering enemies. Overwatch's time to kill is so tiny already that I don't know that'll ever happen.
Team comps were pretty much identical to what I saw in the World Cup games: Winston, DVa, Mercy, Widowmaker, Tracer. Genji or McCree to sub out for DPS and Lucio or Zenyatta to fill out supports.
Sombra on Point B Anubis defense was not something I had seriously considered before.
December 12:
New Hanzo (casual hanzo!), Roadhog, Junk skins, others
Some sort of Saxton Hale mode, 5 Meis vs 1 Winston
Snowball offensive coming back too
Steam: TimIsOnSteam
Battle.net: TimIsOnBnet#1745
Switch: SW-7012-4788-7410
PSN: TimIsOnTheNet
4/5 matches were toxic shitholes.
One had a Winston who kept going AFK. "Chill out, I was just looking at my phone a minute."
One had three awesome Rambo DPSes plus a Rambo tank, who all would solo trickle through the choke (filled with Sym turrets), then pitch a fit about nobody following them.
One started with four people insta-locking DPS, so someone said "Oh, are we going 6 DPS?" So we ended up with 5 DPS and me.
And one was just an entire fucking team of imbeciles. Reinhardt who never shielded. Tracer who would burn all of her blinks going straight into the middle of the enemy. Mercy who ulted to try to escape Deadeye. Lucio off on his own idiocy. And exemplified perhaps no better than our entire team having their ults for the last push, me as Zarya spamming "My ult is ready," we're all grouped up so I start going in, ult, catch three of them... and then nothing. No followup at all. Because the entire rest of my team, with about 10 seconds left, turned around to chase a DVa, who managed to kill three of them with her ult.
The last was dysfunctional (nonsense comp) and uncommunicative, but at least not a complete shitfest like every other match.
And the holiday crapfest hasn't even begun yet. Christ.
That's more like it. Especially since I was having a hard time getting an opening against a super shied-happy Rein. Still not a communicative team at all, but at least they were listening to my callouts. Almost amusingly well on defense.
"Reaper on left with ult."
--entire team immediately scatters --
DIE DIE DIE... for nothing
"Pharah's been saving her ult for Zarya."
Fire at will! JustiYARGH
Bonus from McCree's PoV/the PoTG
The gist of the post is they're going to try keeping SR match ups closer for everyone and they're removing performance-based SR...for diamond and above.
I'm sure those 3000+ players will appreciate the change, but I'd like to see it for everyone.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
In actual play, the system was not really abused, and certainly not to the level of hysteria it generated. It never made sense to do anything that harmed your team for the sake of padding stats because increasing your chances of losing for a gamble at a marginal additional SR point or two is fucking idiotic. If it incentivized you to pad stats that helped your team win, which it largely did, then the system is serving a positive benefit.
Mostly though it probably won't matter in any kind of huge or detectable way. It's kind of funny that this is getting removed from OW about the same time it's being added into the matchmaking gains for Heroes of the Storm, though.