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I'm still amazed that we havent seen a single QoL improvement yet.
Like fixing the fucking vault.
Someone introduced me to DIM last night, and it's like completely different game (item mangement wise)
Aparently I have a couple of duplicates and an unclaimed exotic engram. Also I no longer need duplicates since I can just move weapons accross instantly.
Destiny 2 is obviously a socialist experiment wherein the harder you work the harder it works to make sure you only get things as fast as everyone else does.
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
I dunno, between all the Youtubers and reddit users, I'd say a sizeable portion of the fanbase is intune with and aware of issues hitting the game. Some people don't mind, and it's fine to enjoy Destiny 2. I wasn't obsessed with getting Bright Engrams, it's just the latest in a series of huge letdowns in Destiny 2. I'm a PvP centric player and don't have any reason to log in other than I enjoy playing Trials with the people in Pax Arcadia. No loot incentive, no reason to raid, and now no reason to trust anything Bungie says about mechanics we should all easily grasp. And that they moved so many unique drops from raids, strikes and crucible to the boxes, yeah it really does feel like this whole thing could have been avoided if they just used the Destiny 1 lootbox system.
They can eat crow and work back from here. They did so with Destiny 1 and came back strong with Taken King. They can do things right again, but why should I buy DLC 1 and 2 when it's more of the same? Why should I be excited for a Raid Lair when I never need to step foot in one to hit Max Light?
localhjay on
+1
ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered User, Moderatormod
if i didn't raid with the people i raid with i probably still wouldn't be running the raid
it sort of really did become about the friendgame because there's nothing else to do
also i can't just sit by and not get the ps4 clan their engram every week
Allegedly a voice of reason.
+2
surfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
Yes, this seemingly carefully crafted throttling system with different percentages at certain intervals just screams-
Whoops, coding error.
Yes, it does.
At some point, the XP value needs to get sent to the function that will end up displaying it on the screen. If that XP value is sent to the function without having the scaling applied to it, then it will display the base value rather than the one that's actually added to your XP total.
Let's take an example:
You kill a Legionary. This triggers a gain of 75 XP. This value is modified by a number of things (token, clarion type stuff, the throttling system), and has to go to a number of different places (the XP bars, the XP pop-up, your actual XP pool).
I can think of like three different ways the pop-up number could end up being shown without the modifier. If the modified XP is stored in a new variable, the pop-up might be getting sent the unmodified one. The pop-up function might be called before the modifications are applied. The modifications might be applied temporarily specifically for adding them to the main XP pool.
I mean, the strongest argument against Bungie being perfect in this area would be the (posited) general unhappiness with the rewards system/endgame, no? If they're so good at this stuff then how come "everyone" is complaining.
Nobody is mad they throttled XP. They're mad they hid that they were doing so. If they had showed the proper numbers from the start this would be a non-issue.
If that were the case then where was the equivalent shitstorm when people figured out chests were being throttled without any form of UI to indicate what was happening? Including apparently affecting Cayde's weekly chests as well? If what you say is true, that people are just mad about the hiding, then those other instances of the same thing would have had equivalent uproars. But that's not true: people are madder about this because they can heap their feelings about loot boxes onto it as well, even though there's no indication this system was put in place because of loot boxes. I'd argue that the same system would have existed if all you got from levelling was still a mote of light, but people have convinced themselves otherwise.
Um... There have been like 10 reddit threads a week on how stupid the chest cooldown is, or how stupid it is that you can spend glimmer on items that let you farm, but then you can't farm. People are plenty pissed.
The thing is, the chest cooldown is at most just a crappy gaming experience - it's a footnote in a review, not enough to get journalist and freaking lawmakers involved. The reason the XP shenanigans are a bigger deal is... because of the lootboxes, yes. That's kind of the point! People spent real money to get more XP when it turns out they would not in fact get more XP, whether through boxes for medallions or through buying Pop-tarts.
Games lie and hide information all the fucking time and no one gives near as big a shit. The only reason why this is a "big deal" and people are crying about being "lied to" is that it's loot box adjacent. Even though it's consistent with them being anti-farming for things that aren't attached to loot boxes, like chests and whatnot, since this time it is affecting loot boxes its suddenly not only considered way more scummy than the exact system functioning elsewhere, but is also determined to be a malicious targeted fleecing of the players instead of an intentional design decision that applies to all of their systems.
If you want Bungie to communicate more, blowing up bullshit like this way out of proportion surely isn't going to entice them to engage the players as rational actors.
I mean, yeah. Sorry, was this supposed to be a counter-point?
When you are throttling XP to encourage people to buy microtransactions, it is different then when you are doing it for some other balance reason. Cause in one fo them you are trying to manipulate people into spending money on your lottery tickets.
Except they're throttling XP to discourage repetitive farming, the same as they do elsewhere. Might as well go further down the conspiracy hole and declare that all the other opaque throttling they do is a smokescreen to hide their true nefarious intent of tricking people into paying money for loot boxes. I mean to do that you'd have to ignore that an opaque system like that doesn't encourage people to spend money, but why aknowledge that when you can get your rage on?
But it does encourage people to spend money because it makes Bright Engrams harder to get, therefore encouraging people to spend money to get them. It's not just to discourage repetitive farming, it's to push people towards buying Silver. That you don't know it's happening doesn't matter for this because the fewer bright engrams you get, the higher their perceived value and so the more enticing spending money on them becomes if you really want something.
You can tell this isn't primarily about repetitive farming by their solution. When they got caught, they didn't just remove the throttling, they doubled the XP needed per level. (as far as we know since it's assumed the original value was 80k but that number seems fairly well established). This alongside the lack of throttling actually makes repetitive farming more encouraged, not less. Since people who farm will see much less of an impact on their bright engram income compared to people who don't know. The amount of stuff you need to do per level is almost doubled for the casual player but only increased slightly for the hardcore farmer.
So no, this idea of yours doesn't hold water. They care more about keeping the bright engram income of players down then they do about discouraging repetitive farming.
People were pissed and still are at the chest thing. It's still a fucking bullshit throttling mechanic because it hits you just for playing the game normally. You just hear less about it because the XP thing is sucking up all the air right now cause they hid it and only admitted to it when they got caught.
I'm getting whiplash from all the mental gymnastics in here
+13
surfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
Things I think we are largely in agreement on:
- XP is tuned with the intent to incentivize purchases
- microtransactions can create problems
- the displayed XP numbers should have been accurate
Things I don't agree with:
- it is unthinkable that Bungie accidentally left the displayed XP numbers unscaled
- earning XP at a slower rate is an unreasonable change
Like, the main issue that people have, that the XP system was opaque and the numbers were misleading and all that, I agree with! But a lot of the specifics that people are claiming I find arguable.
Surfpossum no one is disagreeing with you that it’s possible that the display discrepancy is a big. People are just saying that because BARz BARZ BARZ dinging your endorphins regularly is undoubtedly (and confirmed by bungie) one of the most refined and polished parts of the game it seems unlikely that it is a bug.
It’s important for the player experience that completing a public event feels rewarding, so bungie has a huge incentive to make the gain appear to not be a piddly slice on your exp bar.
It’s also important for monetization that bungie tightly controls the rate it which the most obsessive players get bright engrams.
It’s very suspicious, wouldn’t you say, that the old implementation perfectly satisfies both these goals?
Things I think we are largely in agreement on:
- XP is tuned with the intent to incentivize purchases
- microtransactions can create problems
- the displayed XP numbers should have been accurate
Things I don't agree with:
- it is unthinkable that Bungie accidentally left the displayed XP numbers unscaled
- earning XP at a slower rate is an unreasonable change
Like, the main issue that people have, that the XP system was opaque and the numbers were misleading and all that, I agree with! But a lot of the specifics that people are claiming I find arguable.
Earning XP at a slower rate would be fine in isolation. In context it's what establishes the first two points you agree on. It's part and parcel of that.
I don't think anyone here is defending anti-consumer practices? In fact, I'd go so far to suggest that everyone here thinks the whole situation stinks.
Some people are suggesting that incompetence is a better explanation than malice.
+1
surfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
Surfpossum no one is disagreeing with you that it’s possible that the display discrepancy is a big. People are just saying that because BARz BARZ BARZ dinging your endorphins regularly is undoubtedly (and confirmed by bungie) one of the most refined and polished parts of the game it seems unlikely that it is a bug.
It’s important for the player experience that completing a public event feels rewarding, so bungie has a huge incentive to make the gain appear to not be a piddly slice on your exp bar.
It’s also important for monetization that bungie tightly controls the rate it which the most obsessive players get bright engrams.
It’s very suspicious, wouldn’t you say, that the old implementation perfectly satisfies both these goals?
HMMMMM
But it literally did show a piddly slice on the XP bar. That's the whole reason anybody noticed!
Oh then maybe I’m misunderstanding the whole thing then... I thought the controversy was that the numbers changed but the bar didn’t? It’s the other way around?
Oh then maybe I’m misunderstanding the whole thing then... I thought the controversy was that the numbers changed but the bar didn’t? It’s the other way around?
The bar showed the actual amount of XP you gained. The numbers popping up were the unmodified amount that you would have gotten without the throttling triggered by Public Events and the like.
If Bungie had been honest about this whole XP thing from the beginning, there definitely would've been complaints but people would've just accepted it eventually.
This massive reaction is purely down to Bungie being, arguably, deliberately deceptive about the whole thing. They only commented on it after pcgamer published an article about it, not at all during the week or so prior where the subreddit had already figured out something was wrong.
They were obviously reviewing the system as a whole (hence the actual change rather than just fixing the displayed values) so any comment they made prior to that decision would have just been a placeholder saying they're reviewing things.
Expecting them (especially during Thanksgiving) to respond to this sort of stuff within days is a bit much, I think.
People were raising it as an issue well before thanksgiving (during the Clarion Call the prior weekend). It was only when pcgamer put up an article the day after thanksgiving that Bungie commented. Thanksgiving as an excuse is completely irrelevant here.
Oh then maybe I’m misunderstanding the whole thing then... I thought the controversy was that the numbers changed but the bar didn’t? It’s the other way around?
The numbers were saying it was a big amount of exp that people were gaining, yet the bar was showing the small reduced amount. It couldn't have been the reverse because if the bar was showing the correct amount, then it would be clear when the bar filled and you didn't earn a bright engram.
I do find it interesting in hindsight that people were jumping through hoops both here and on reddit trying to justify that the bar and numbers were matching up (saying it was just a display bug) even though it seemed clear that it was more than that.
Feels very similar to how many people are justifying after the fact that this was "just a bug and not at all intentional".
I disagree that the XP is tuned to incentivize purchases. You're putting the cart before the horse if you're using the throttling system as evidence. Since players did not know about the throttling, how could they be incentivized to buy XP buffs to counteract it? The only thing up to now that'd incentivize a purchase is how long it takes to level up, especially after your weekly 3x buff is gone. I'd argue that the type of person who'd buy a box before this reveal would still do so afterwards because the time taken to level is all that mattered to them and by all indications Bungie is going to adjust the max XP so the time-per-level remains the same.
+1
ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered User, Moderatormod
If Bungie had been honest about this whole XP thing from the beginning, there definitely would've been complaints but people would've just accepted it eventually.
This massive reaction is purely down to Bungie being, arguably, deliberately deceptive about the whole thing. They only commented on it after pcgamer published an article about it, not at all during the week or so prior where the subreddit had already figured out something was wrong.
They were obviously reviewing the system as a whole (hence the actual change rather than just fixing the displayed values) so any comment they made prior to that decision would have just been a placeholder saying they're reviewing things.
Expecting them (especially during Thanksgiving) to respond to this sort of stuff within days is a bit much, I think.
People were raising it as an issue well before thanksgiving (during the Clarion Call the prior weekend). It was only when pcgamer put up an article the day after thanksgiving that Bungie commented. Thanksgiving as an excuse is completely irrelevant here.
the day after thanksgiving is one business day ago
assuming it is a business day at all, which it often is not if you're not retail or food service
Allegedly a voice of reason.
0
ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Surfpossum no one is disagreeing with you that it’s possible that the display discrepancy is a big. People are just saying that because BARz BARZ BARZ dinging your endorphins regularly is undoubtedly (and confirmed by bungie) one of the most refined and polished parts of the game it seems unlikely that it is a bug.
It’s important for the player experience that completing a public event feels rewarding, so bungie has a huge incentive to make the gain appear to not be a piddly slice on your exp bar.
It’s also important for monetization that bungie tightly controls the rate it which the most obsessive players get bright engrams.
It’s very suspicious, wouldn’t you say, that the old implementation perfectly satisfies both these goals?
HMMMMM
But it literally did show a piddly slice on the XP bar. That's the whole reason anybody noticed!
I disagree that the XP is tuned to incentivize purchases. You're putting the cart before the horse if you're using the throttling system as evidence. Since players did not know about the throttling, how could they be incentivized to buy XP buffs to counteract it? The only thing up to now that'd incentivize a purchase is how long it takes to level up, especially after your weekly 3x buff is gone. I'd argue that the type of person who'd buy a box before this reveal would still do so afterwards because the time taken to level is all that mattered to them and by all indications Bungie is going to adjust the max XP so the time-per-level remains the same.
people are talking about the xp being tuned to incentivize purchases of silver for bright engrams, by making it take a long time to earn them otherwise after getting your initial few, not for purchases of xp boosters which are promotional and largely don't benefit bungie's bottom line directly
I disagree that the XP is tuned to incentivize purchases. You're putting the cart before the horse if you're using the throttling system as evidence. Since players did not know about the throttling, how could they be incentivized to buy XP buffs to counteract it? The only thing up to now that'd incentivize a purchase is how long it takes to level up, especially after your weekly 3x buff is gone. I'd argue that the type of person who'd buy a box before this reveal would still do so afterwards because the time taken to level is all that mattered to them and by all indications Bungie is going to adjust the max XP so the time-per-level remains the same.
Nope, the cart is firmly being pulled by the horse here. You don't need to know the throttling is going on because the point isn't for the player to go "I'm being throttled on XP, better buy lootboxes", it's for the player to level up slower, thereby making bright engrams more rare, thus encouraging them to buy the bright engrams with money because it's harder to earn them via just playing. This doesn't depend on the player knowing what is going on, only on them noting the speed at which they receive bright engrams. Which was deliberately slowed down.
If Bungie had been honest about this whole XP thing from the beginning, there definitely would've been complaints but people would've just accepted it eventually.
This massive reaction is purely down to Bungie being, arguably, deliberately deceptive about the whole thing. They only commented on it after pcgamer published an article about it, not at all during the week or so prior where the subreddit had already figured out something was wrong.
They were obviously reviewing the system as a whole (hence the actual change rather than just fixing the displayed values) so any comment they made prior to that decision would have just been a placeholder saying they're reviewing things.
Expecting them (especially during Thanksgiving) to respond to this sort of stuff within days is a bit much, I think.
People were raising it as an issue well before thanksgiving (during the Clarion Call the prior weekend). It was only when pcgamer put up an article the day after thanksgiving that Bungie commented. Thanksgiving as an excuse is completely irrelevant here.
the day after thanksgiving is one business day ago
assuming it is a business day at all, which it often is not if you're not retail or food service
Black friday is not a business day in america. I mean as far as legal contracts go.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I disagree that the XP is tuned to incentivize purchases. You're putting the cart before the horse if you're using the throttling system as evidence. Since players did not know about the throttling, how could they be incentivized to buy XP buffs to counteract it? The only thing up to now that'd incentivize a purchase is how long it takes to level up, especially after your weekly 3x buff is gone. I'd argue that the type of person who'd buy a box before this reveal would still do so afterwards because the time taken to level is all that mattered to them and by all indications Bungie is going to adjust the max XP so the time-per-level remains the same.
What are these buyable XP buffs you keep talking about?
You buy "Silver" with real money that will let you buy Bright Engrams directly, no need for any XP buffs.
I disagree that the XP is tuned to incentivize purchases. You're putting the cart before the horse if you're using the throttling system as evidence. Since players did not know about the throttling, how could they be incentivized to buy XP buffs to counteract it? The only thing up to now that'd incentivize a purchase is how long it takes to level up, especially after your weekly 3x buff is gone. I'd argue that the type of person who'd buy a box before this reveal would still do so afterwards because the time taken to level is all that mattered to them and by all indications Bungie is going to adjust the max XP so the time-per-level remains the same.
What are these buyable XP buffs you keep talking about?
Real money will let you buy Bright Engrams directly, no need for any XP buffs.
Fireteam medallions I'm guessing.
PSN: Holy-Promethium
0
surfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
If Bungie had been honest about this whole XP thing from the beginning, there definitely would've been complaints but people would've just accepted it eventually.
This massive reaction is purely down to Bungie being, arguably, deliberately deceptive about the whole thing. They only commented on it after pcgamer published an article about it, not at all during the week or so prior where the subreddit had already figured out something was wrong.
They were obviously reviewing the system as a whole (hence the actual change rather than just fixing the displayed values) so any comment they made prior to that decision would have just been a placeholder saying they're reviewing things.
Expecting them (especially during Thanksgiving) to respond to this sort of stuff within days is a bit much, I think.
People were raising it as an issue well before thanksgiving (during the Clarion Call the prior weekend). It was only when pcgamer put up an article the day after thanksgiving that Bungie commented. Thanksgiving as an excuse is completely irrelevant here.
Ah, well then. They could have posted something saying that they are reviewing things, yes.
I disagree that the XP is tuned to incentivize purchases. You're putting the cart before the horse if you're using the throttling system as evidence. Since players did not know about the throttling, how could they be incentivized to buy XP buffs to counteract it? The only thing up to now that'd incentivize a purchase is how long it takes to level up, especially after your weekly 3x buff is gone. I'd argue that the type of person who'd buy a box before this reveal would still do so afterwards because the time taken to level is all that mattered to them and by all indications Bungie is going to adjust the max XP so the time-per-level remains the same.
Things taking a long time is the number one way to get people to purchase things directly or buy boosts (see: every mobile game ever).
The thing is, you need to keep players wanting to play for a long time and augment that playtime with purchases (from the perspective of wanting to make money), so ideally the balancing act involves giving players incentives to keep playing (ie making the game fun).
In Destiny's case specifically, that also involves tuning the rewards for each activity such that there will always be people doing them whenever you decide to do one.
And thanks to Bungie's impeccable big data expertise they are perfect at doing that.
Surfpossum no one is disagreeing with you that it’s possible that the display discrepancy is a big. People are just saying that because BARz BARZ BARZ dinging your endorphins regularly is undoubtedly (and confirmed by bungie) one of the most refined and polished parts of the game it seems unlikely that it is a bug.
It’s important for the player experience that completing a public event feels rewarding, so bungie has a huge incentive to make the gain appear to not be a piddly slice on your exp bar.
It’s also important for monetization that bungie tightly controls the rate it which the most obsessive players get bright engrams.
It’s very suspicious, wouldn’t you say, that the old implementation perfectly satisfies both these goals?
HMMMMM
But it literally did show a piddly slice on the XP bar. That's the whole reason anybody noticed!
I disagree that the XP is tuned to incentivize purchases. You're putting the cart before the horse if you're using the throttling system as evidence. Since players did not know about the throttling, how could they be incentivized to buy XP buffs to counteract it? The only thing up to now that'd incentivize a purchase is how long it takes to level up, especially after your weekly 3x buff is gone. I'd argue that the type of person who'd buy a box before this reveal would still do so afterwards because the time taken to level is all that mattered to them and by all indications Bungie is going to adjust the max XP so the time-per-level remains the same.
Nope, the cart is firmly being pulled by the horse here. You don't need to know the throttling is going on because the point isn't for the player to go "I'm being throttled on XP, better buy lootboxes", it's for the player to level up slower, thereby making bright engrams more rare, thus encouraging them to buy the bright engrams with money because it's harder to earn them via just playing. This doesn't depend on the player knowing what is going on, only on them noting the speed at which they receive bright engrams. Which was deliberately slowed down.
It was slowed down from day one, so from everyone's point of reference that was just the rate. Anyone buying boxes did so based on that rate. "Slowing down" only enters the conversation after this reveal.
Also I mention the XP buffs because people insist that the throttling was put in place in part to facilitate making the pop tart buffs more worth it.
+1
surfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
I disagree that the XP is tuned to incentivize purchases. You're putting the cart before the horse if you're using the throttling system as evidence. Since players did not know about the throttling, how could they be incentivized to buy XP buffs to counteract it? The only thing up to now that'd incentivize a purchase is how long it takes to level up, especially after your weekly 3x buff is gone. I'd argue that the type of person who'd buy a box before this reveal would still do so afterwards because the time taken to level is all that mattered to them and by all indications Bungie is going to adjust the max XP so the time-per-level remains the same.
Nope, the cart is firmly being pulled by the horse here. You don't need to know the throttling is going on because the point isn't for the player to go "I'm being throttled on XP, better buy lootboxes", it's for the player to level up slower, thereby making bright engrams more rare, thus encouraging them to buy the bright engrams with money because it's harder to earn them via just playing. This doesn't depend on the player knowing what is going on, only on them noting the speed at which they receive bright engrams. Which was deliberately slowed down.
It was slowed down from day one, so from everyone's point of reference that was just the rate. Anyone buying boxes did so based on that rate. "Slowing down" only enters the conversation after this reveal.
Also I mention the XP buffs because people insist that the throttling was put in place in part to facilitate making the pop tart buffs more worth it.
People don't need to know anything in order to want an XP buff. If it feels like it's taking a long time to get a bright engram, then that's an incentive to buy something that will get you one faster (or buy one directly).
This is, like, the basis of all modern microtransactions.
Unless you mean that being aware of the throttling shouldn't change the calculus of whether or not to buy a boost relative to being unaware of it, in which case ehhhh being shown incorrect numbers throws a bit of a wrench into that argument.
I disagree that the XP is tuned to incentivize purchases. You're putting the cart before the horse if you're using the throttling system as evidence. Since players did not know about the throttling, how could they be incentivized to buy XP buffs to counteract it? The only thing up to now that'd incentivize a purchase is how long it takes to level up, especially after your weekly 3x buff is gone. I'd argue that the type of person who'd buy a box before this reveal would still do so afterwards because the time taken to level is all that mattered to them and by all indications Bungie is going to adjust the max XP so the time-per-level remains the same.
Nope, the cart is firmly being pulled by the horse here. You don't need to know the throttling is going on because the point isn't for the player to go "I'm being throttled on XP, better buy lootboxes", it's for the player to level up slower, thereby making bright engrams more rare, thus encouraging them to buy the bright engrams with money because it's harder to earn them via just playing. This doesn't depend on the player knowing what is going on, only on them noting the speed at which they receive bright engrams. Which was deliberately slowed down.
It was slowed down from day one, so from everyone's point of reference that was just the rate. Anyone buying boxes did so based on that rate. "Slowing down" only enters the conversation after this reveal.
Also I mention the XP buffs because people insist that the throttling was put in place in part to facilitate making the pop tart buffs more worth it.
People don't need to know anything in order to want an XP buff. If it feels like it's taking a long time to get a bright engram, then that's an incentive to buy something that will get you one faster (or buy one directly).
This is, like, the basis of all modern microtransactions.
But "levelling was made slow intentionally to sell loot boxes" wasn't a narrative until this reveal, so bringing it up now rings hollow to me.
Posts
Whoops, coding error.
Someone introduced me to DIM last night, and it's like completely different game (item mangement wise)
Aparently I have a couple of duplicates and an unclaimed exotic engram. Also I no longer need duplicates since I can just move weapons accross instantly.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
They can eat crow and work back from here. They did so with Destiny 1 and came back strong with Taken King. They can do things right again, but why should I buy DLC 1 and 2 when it's more of the same? Why should I be excited for a Raid Lair when I never need to step foot in one to hit Max Light?
it sort of really did become about the friendgame because there's nothing else to do
also i can't just sit by and not get the ps4 clan their engram every week
At some point, the XP value needs to get sent to the function that will end up displaying it on the screen. If that XP value is sent to the function without having the scaling applied to it, then it will display the base value rather than the one that's actually added to your XP total.
Let's take an example:
You kill a Legionary. This triggers a gain of 75 XP. This value is modified by a number of things (token, clarion type stuff, the throttling system), and has to go to a number of different places (the XP bars, the XP pop-up, your actual XP pool).
I can think of like three different ways the pop-up number could end up being shown without the modifier. If the modified XP is stored in a new variable, the pop-up might be getting sent the unmodified one. The pop-up function might be called before the modifications are applied. The modifications might be applied temporarily specifically for adding them to the main XP pool.
I mean, the strongest argument against Bungie being perfect in this area would be the (posited) general unhappiness with the rewards system/endgame, no? If they're so good at this stuff then how come "everyone" is complaining.
Um... There have been like 10 reddit threads a week on how stupid the chest cooldown is, or how stupid it is that you can spend glimmer on items that let you farm, but then you can't farm. People are plenty pissed.
The thing is, the chest cooldown is at most just a crappy gaming experience - it's a footnote in a review, not enough to get journalist and freaking lawmakers involved. The reason the XP shenanigans are a bigger deal is... because of the lootboxes, yes. That's kind of the point! People spent real money to get more XP when it turns out they would not in fact get more XP, whether through boxes for medallions or through buying Pop-tarts.
But it does encourage people to spend money because it makes Bright Engrams harder to get, therefore encouraging people to spend money to get them. It's not just to discourage repetitive farming, it's to push people towards buying Silver. That you don't know it's happening doesn't matter for this because the fewer bright engrams you get, the higher their perceived value and so the more enticing spending money on them becomes if you really want something.
You can tell this isn't primarily about repetitive farming by their solution. When they got caught, they didn't just remove the throttling, they doubled the XP needed per level. (as far as we know since it's assumed the original value was 80k but that number seems fairly well established). This alongside the lack of throttling actually makes repetitive farming more encouraged, not less. Since people who farm will see much less of an impact on their bright engram income compared to people who don't know. The amount of stuff you need to do per level is almost doubled for the casual player but only increased slightly for the hardcore farmer.
So no, this idea of yours doesn't hold water. They care more about keeping the bright engram income of players down then they do about discouraging repetitive farming.
People were pissed and still are at the chest thing. It's still a fucking bullshit throttling mechanic because it hits you just for playing the game normally. You just hear less about it because the XP thing is sucking up all the air right now cause they hid it and only admitted to it when they got caught.
- XP is tuned with the intent to incentivize purchases
- microtransactions can create problems
- the displayed XP numbers should have been accurate
Things I don't agree with:
- it is unthinkable that Bungie accidentally left the displayed XP numbers unscaled
- earning XP at a slower rate is an unreasonable change
Like, the main issue that people have, that the XP system was opaque and the numbers were misleading and all that, I agree with! But a lot of the specifics that people are claiming I find arguable.
It never ceases to amaze me how hard people will defend anti-consumer practices for no discernible reason.
It’s important for the player experience that completing a public event feels rewarding, so bungie has a huge incentive to make the gain appear to not be a piddly slice on your exp bar.
It’s also important for monetization that bungie tightly controls the rate it which the most obsessive players get bright engrams.
It’s very suspicious, wouldn’t you say, that the old implementation perfectly satisfies both these goals?
HMMMMM
https://medium.com/@alascii
Earning XP at a slower rate would be fine in isolation. In context it's what establishes the first two points you agree on. It's part and parcel of that.
They still lied!
Some people are suggesting that incompetence is a better explanation than malice.
You... you can't accidentally lie. That's not what lying is!
I think I'm going to agree that Bungie lied and hid
the XP buff that decayed after doing Public Events.
It is your Destiny .... 2 do it!
edit: forgot there were six GMasters before our current reboot of GMaster.
https://medium.com/@alascii
People were raising it as an issue well before thanksgiving (during the Clarion Call the prior weekend). It was only when pcgamer put up an article the day after thanksgiving that Bungie commented. Thanksgiving as an excuse is completely irrelevant here.
https://medium.com/@alascii
The numbers were saying it was a big amount of exp that people were gaining, yet the bar was showing the small reduced amount. It couldn't have been the reverse because if the bar was showing the correct amount, then it would be clear when the bar filled and you didn't earn a bright engram.
I do find it interesting in hindsight that people were jumping through hoops both here and on reddit trying to justify that the bar and numbers were matching up (saying it was just a display bug) even though it seemed clear that it was more than that.
Feels very similar to how many people are justifying after the fact that this was "just a bug and not at all intentional".
XBL - Foreverender | 3DS FC - 1418 6696 1012 | Steam ID | LoL
worth noting an edit doesn't update the batsignal so this post will serve to make the batsignal work
i'm helping
the day after thanksgiving is one business day ago
assuming it is a business day at all, which it often is not if you're not retail or food service
ah yes, the xp buff that eventually decayed so that players were only earning the original intended amount of exp: 5% of the exp shown on the bar.
people are talking about the xp being tuned to incentivize purchases of silver for bright engrams, by making it take a long time to earn them otherwise after getting your initial few, not for purchases of xp boosters which are promotional and largely don't benefit bungie's bottom line directly
Nope, the cart is firmly being pulled by the horse here. You don't need to know the throttling is going on because the point isn't for the player to go "I'm being throttled on XP, better buy lootboxes", it's for the player to level up slower, thereby making bright engrams more rare, thus encouraging them to buy the bright engrams with money because it's harder to earn them via just playing. This doesn't depend on the player knowing what is going on, only on them noting the speed at which they receive bright engrams. Which was deliberately slowed down.
Black friday is not a business day in america. I mean as far as legal contracts go.
pleasepaypreacher.net
What are these buyable XP buffs you keep talking about?
You buy "Silver" with real money that will let you buy Bright Engrams directly, no need for any XP buffs.
The options under "Silver Purchases".
Fireteam medallions I'm guessing.
Things taking a long time is the number one way to get people to purchase things directly or buy boosts (see: every mobile game ever).
The thing is, you need to keep players wanting to play for a long time and augment that playtime with purchases (from the perspective of wanting to make money), so ideally the balancing act involves giving players incentives to keep playing (ie making the game fun).
In Destiny's case specifically, that also involves tuning the rewards for each activity such that there will always be people doing them whenever you decide to do one.
And thanks to Bungie's impeccable big data expertise they are perfect at doing that.
You can lie accidentally. That's a perfectly valid use of the word.
How would you rather describe it? Bungie made an untruth and now they're in a doubleplus ungood situation?
You can Bungle, though.
Bungle, v: to communicate mistruths regardless of intent.
It was slowed down from day one, so from everyone's point of reference that was just the rate. Anyone buying boxes did so based on that rate. "Slowing down" only enters the conversation after this reveal.
Also I mention the XP buffs because people insist that the throttling was put in place in part to facilitate making the pop tart buffs more worth it.
This is, like, the basis of all modern microtransactions.
Unless you mean that being aware of the throttling shouldn't change the calculus of whether or not to buy a boost relative to being unaware of it, in which case ehhhh being shown incorrect numbers throws a bit of a wrench into that argument.
But "levelling was made slow intentionally to sell loot boxes" wasn't a narrative until this reveal, so bringing it up now rings hollow to me.