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[Total War]: 3 Kingdoms is out! Rats and Lizardman fight it out in WH2.

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    Is dx12 new for this game?

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited April 2019
    No, it's been an option for years. They added it to 1 in 2016, and it's been in 2 since launch.

    Fiatil on
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    I thought so. I was hoping it was new in this patch and would explain my new problems.

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    AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    For me, DX12 makes it crash every other turn. It took me like 4 days to figure it out. Was real annoying.

    I've been playing a lot of Warhammer 2 the last couple of weeks. I never put a lot of time into it before, but I've really been enjoying it. Been doing a high elf mortal empires campaign as a feet wet situation, and thinking I'll put it aside and start a lizardman game with the new patch that dropped yesterday.

    PSN|AspectVoid
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    IronKnuckle's GhostIronKnuckle's Ghost This is also my fault Registered User regular
    DX12 has consistently performed worse, with an eventual crash to desktop when switching between campaign mode and battle mode (or vice versa) since Warham 1. No problems with DX11, and I don't notice any visual difference between the two modes, though I also don't really know what I'm looking for.

    The new Skaven stuff finally makes Skaven feel right to me. I tend to prefer ranged units anyway, and new ratling guns are just perfect. I broke out some warpfire throwers for a brief battle last night and they just absolutely melt whatever they touch. Perfect. Haven't been able to really figure out the Under-Empire stuff though.

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    TurambarTurambar Independent Registered User regular
    I'm loving Ikit Claw. The new units and the Under-Empire really made Skaven come together for me

    The auto-resolve changes also feel really good so far. Major factions don't appear to be steam rolling smaller ones and painting the map as much, keeping the campaign fresh longer

    Also, +1 on having tried to enable DX12 and suffering crashes

    Steam: turamb | Origin: Turamb | 3DS: 3411-1109-4537 | NNID: Turambar | Warframe(PC): Turamb
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    KruiteKruite Registered User regular
    you can build under empires to produce food and income for you; it really helps offset the complete lack of food producing building the skaven have (I'm under the impression that you're just supposed to kill armies as much as possible as well as Raid to offset consumption).

    being able to settle territory and automatically upgrade is....insane. no wonder skaven sometimes go HAM.

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    JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited April 2019
    Karoz wrote: »
    Kruite wrote: »
    So far Skaven starting game is...not fun. Going to get cannons soon though so maybe it'll be more shooty shooty boom boom

    As soon as you get plagueclaw catapults Skaven get way more punch. Heck I've been pulling off some battles simply by having 3 catapults and tons of slaves to hold the line.

    The new units are lovely, setting up killzones with ratling gunners while Jezzails snipe out high priority targets (took out the Fay Enchantress before she got off more than 2 spells) is a thing of beauty. Doom Flayers may be a bit too good as I don't seem to lose them at all, given they haven't faced much cavalry which I bet is a harder counter to them.

    I'm still kind of eh on Skaven skirmishers/slingers and plague monks. The former doesn't have the punch of other archers (the skirmishers can be a nice annoyance at times but little more it seems) and the plague monks are just outmatched by the deadly ranged options the skaven bring since they're too squishy on their own to do much except mulch low tier meat shields. I guess the one credit I can give them is not needing firing lines, but with the suppression of the ratling gunners, these ranged damage dealers seem way more viable.

    Yeah Skaven don't need melee damage dealers, their ranged damage is way more than enough to flatten anything. Vampire Coast has the same issue where the Depth Guard doesn't have much use in a gunnery focused army.

    Night and Gutter Runners have a place for sniping artillery from vanguard deployment, then becoming flankers in the main fight.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
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    That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Warplock Jezzails and Rattling Gunners are game changers for the Skavin infantry game.

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    KruiteKruite Registered User regular
    To my horror, I have found that the gunner teams cannot scale walls.

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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited April 2019
    So, I'm playing Carcassone, and I have no idea how I'm supposed to be fighting off Skryre. They never engage me in a battle, they just run back and forth pulling my army away until they have a second army, my attempts to block their army never works, on the occassions I can even try when their army isn't at see bouncing from beach to beach. If I go after their cities they'll just attack my cities while I'm away and burn them down, and it's impossible to pursue other goals while they're there. How the hell am I supposed to fight them?

    Did you let them get big? That might be an issue. Skaven are priority number 1 for me when doing that.

    I am running exact same game (hard strategic/normal battle) and my priorities were

    1) Make friends with the elfs

    2) Farm Greenskins for Chivalry

    3) Go south and crush the skaven.

    The Skaven went and took some regions from Estalia but once i moved in they got crushed and had to retreat back to skavenblight. Where they are held in pretty effectively and about to be destroyed

    Edit: But damn if Ikit claw and the new units are not strong.


    Edit: Melee Skaven units are pretty good if you've got an ambush game going. For like... Craventail they're pretty essential (though i like death runners better in general) since you hit an ambush and just slam into the rear with them. The damage dealing capabilities of the units is very amazingly high.

    Goumindong on
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    That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Kruite wrote: »
    To my horror, I have found that the gunner teams cannot scale walls.

    :big oof:

    I havn't gotten to a walled siege battle yet. It makes sense though. Team units usually can't.

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    Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    edited April 2019
    I think Jezzails might need to get nerfed, at least in regards to Lord damage or single target accuracy

    Lord_Asmodeus on
    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
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    IronKnuckle's GhostIronKnuckle's Ghost This is also my fault Registered User regular
    Also is "jezzail" really pronounced with a hard g sound?

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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited April 2019
    If gunner teams could get on walls it would be... good lord how would you siege a skaven settlement? The raw damage of ratling gunners and jezzails is way beyond what other similar unit types produce but them on a wall Good lord

    Goumindong on
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    FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Things I've learned playing as Tehenhuain:
    1. Don't try to rush an ancient stegadon into two ratling gunners. In fact, just don't try to rush ratling gunners at all. The best way to keep them occupied is to bait them with a shielded saurus unit at long range.
    2. Red skinks are pretty low tier, but work well when supporting other skinks as a flanking group. They're A-tier units against globadiers and dwarfs (and give the lizards good early anti-dwarf units), but they're rather useless against elves. Especially Sisters of Slaughter will just crush Red skinks like they're nothing, and units like Swordmasters/black guard/executioners just have too good defense.
    3. The right way to deal with ratling gunners is ancient salamanders. Holy crap are ancient salamanders good, especially if sent against special ranged squads like ratling gunners, artillery, elite archers and the like. 2xAncient salamanders+2xSalamander hunting packs is an ideal group for harassing an enemy side as the Ancient salamanders will murderize infantry while the hunting packs will just maul any cavalry or flyers that are fast enough to catch up. They don't quite hold up to facing the high elf archer-horde (not on their own), but if you distract the knifeears with some shielded skinks/saurus the salamanders will punch hard.
    4. The engine of the gods is nice in melee and it's a nice unit overall, but the Ark of Sotek is pretty much only good at holding enemies. It's good at it, and makes for perfect Flock of Doom bait, but it's not the greatest of units.
    5. If the enemy vampirates, you ripperdactyl. Vampirates are terrible when it comes to facing Lizardmen. Almost all Lizardmen units are so good against vampirates. The unly underperformers are terradons, skink skirmishers and saurus warriors (because saurus warriors are the slowest units you have).
    6. Blessed chameleon skinks are so good. I just never appreciated it before they introduced more ranged-focused units and factions.

    P.S: Red Skinks vs Bastiladons is how I think lizardmen invented croquet.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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    Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    edited April 2019
    ignore me

    Lord_Asmodeus on
    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
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    KruiteKruite Registered User regular
    ignore me

    the jezzails run out of ammo quickly; they cannot kill off an entire army

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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Sooo... Leoncour, already one of the better combat LL's now starts with Perfect Vigor

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    So the best undocumented change is that spine of sotek dwarfs are in ME now.

    Lustria has gone from being a boring snoozefest to being one of the most diverse areas.

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    FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Well. Based on how Lord Kroak is performing in my battles I think the final vortex battle will consist mostly of Lord Kroak nuking stuff while my supporting spellcasters keep pressing Arcane Conduit. He's just insanely powerful.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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    KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Kruite wrote: »
    To my horror, I have found that the gunner teams cannot scale walls.

    :big oof:

    I havn't gotten to a walled siege battle yet. It makes sense though. Team units usually can't.

    There's a mod for that.

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    IblisIblis Registered User regular
    edited April 2019
    I decided to detonate Lothern with a Doomsphere. Just felt like they had it coming. It gets a nice little cutscene, and it has a special ruins model with massive chunks of warpstone sticking out. Though it looks like it does not in fact spread massive skaven corruption, so that part is unfortunate. Still amusing.

    Edit:
    1wfaxx4xdf0w.jpg

    https://youtu.be/H47ow4_Cmk0

    Iblis on
    Steam Account, 3DS FC: 5129-1652-5160, Origin ID: DamusWolf
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    KruiteKruite Registered User regular
    So Ikit has said, "Murder, Death, Kill!" (Demolition Man reference)

    He has also complained when traveling over seas, ("This salt brine is no no good for my armor"

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    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Ooh yeah I should definitely send an engineer off to start an Under-Empire in Lothern. Lots of easy money to be made there, siphoning off High Elves.

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    TheGerbilTheGerbil Registered User regular
    Things I've learned playing as Tehenhuain:
    1. Don't try to rush an ancient stegadon into two ratling gunners. In fact, just don't try to rush ratling gunners at all. The best way to keep them occupied is to bait them with a shielded saurus unit at long range.
    2. Red skinks are pretty low tier, but work well when supporting other skinks as a flanking group. They're A-tier units against globadiers and dwarfs (and give the lizards good early anti-dwarf units), but they're rather useless against elves. Especially Sisters of Slaughter will just crush Red skinks like they're nothing, and units like Swordmasters/black guard/executioners just have too good defense.
    3. The right way to deal with ratling gunners is ancient salamanders. Holy crap are ancient salamanders good, especially if sent against special ranged squads like ratling gunners, artillery, elite archers and the like. 2xAncient salamanders+2xSalamander hunting packs is an ideal group for harassing an enemy side as the Ancient salamanders will murderize infantry while the hunting packs will just maul any cavalry or flyers that are fast enough to catch up. They don't quite hold up to facing the high elf archer-horde (not on their own), but if you distract the knifeears with some shielded skinks/saurus the salamanders will punch hard.
    4. The engine of the gods is nice in melee and it's a nice unit overall, but the Ark of Sotek is pretty much only good at holding enemies. It's good at it, and makes for perfect Flock of Doom bait, but it's not the greatest of units.
    5. If the enemy vampirates, you ripperdactyl. Vampirates are terrible when it comes to facing Lizardmen. Almost all Lizardmen units are so good against vampirates. The unly underperformers are terradons, skink skirmishers and saurus warriors (because saurus warriors are the slowest units you have).
    6. Blessed chameleon skinks are so good. I just never appreciated it before they introduced more ranged-focused units and factions.

    P.S: Red Skinks vs Bastiladons is how I think lizardmen invented croquet.

    This may or may not help but sisters of slaughter fuck up A LOT of things in melee. So don't feel bad about them blending red skinks. They have shit armor though so abuse their weakness to ranged.

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    SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    Things I've learned playing as Tehenhuain:
    1. Don't try to rush an ancient stegadon into two ratling gunners. In fact, just don't try to rush ratling gunners at all. The best way to keep them occupied is to bait them with a shielded saurus unit at long range.
    2. Red skinks are pretty low tier, but work well when supporting other skinks as a flanking group. They're A-tier units against globadiers and dwarfs (and give the lizards good early anti-dwarf units), but they're rather useless against elves. Especially Sisters of Slaughter will just crush Red skinks like they're nothing, and units like Swordmasters/black guard/executioners just have too good defense.
    3. The right way to deal with ratling gunners is ancient salamanders. Holy crap are ancient salamanders good, especially if sent against special ranged squads like ratling gunners, artillery, elite archers and the like. 2xAncient salamanders+2xSalamander hunting packs is an ideal group for harassing an enemy side as the Ancient salamanders will murderize infantry while the hunting packs will just maul any cavalry or flyers that are fast enough to catch up. They don't quite hold up to facing the high elf archer-horde (not on their own), but if you distract the knifeears with some shielded skinks/saurus the salamanders will punch hard.
    4. The engine of the gods is nice in melee and it's a nice unit overall, but the Ark of Sotek is pretty much only good at holding enemies. It's good at it, and makes for perfect Flock of Doom bait, but it's not the greatest of units.
    5. If the enemy vampirates, you ripperdactyl. Vampirates are terrible when it comes to facing Lizardmen. Almost all Lizardmen units are so good against vampirates. The unly underperformers are terradons, skink skirmishers and saurus warriors (because saurus warriors are the slowest units you have).
    6. Blessed chameleon skinks are so good. I just never appreciated it before they introduced more ranged-focused units and factions.

    P.S: Red Skinks vs Bastiladons is how I think lizardmen invented croquet.

    This may or may not help but sisters of slaughter fuck up A LOT of things in melee. So don't feel bad about them blending red skinks. They have shit armor though so abuse their weakness to ranged.

    I'm guessing salamanders would wreck them?

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    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Question: once one of my Skaven Lord's loyalty starts to drop, how do I bring it back up? I think I saw a ritual that would do it, is that the only way?

    I've never gotten far enough in a Skaven campaign before to need to know this, somehow. Also, I am kind of astounded that Ikit Claw doesn't really need Stormvermin; shielded clan rats hold the line well enough for my dakka to shred everything. Maybe if I have to fight some elves? Either way, I am very impressed, and love the Empire playstyle feeling I get from these guys now.

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    TurambarTurambar Independent Registered User regular
    You get loyalty from winning battles, among other things

    Also, they don't like sitting with weak armies

    Steam: turamb | Origin: Turamb | 3DS: 3411-1109-4537 | NNID: Turambar | Warframe(PC): Turamb
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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    SharpyVII wrote: »
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    Things I've learned playing as Tehenhuain:
    1. Don't try to rush an ancient stegadon into two ratling gunners. In fact, just don't try to rush ratling gunners at all. The best way to keep them occupied is to bait them with a shielded saurus unit at long range.
    2. Red skinks are pretty low tier, but work well when supporting other skinks as a flanking group. They're A-tier units against globadiers and dwarfs (and give the lizards good early anti-dwarf units), but they're rather useless against elves. Especially Sisters of Slaughter will just crush Red skinks like they're nothing, and units like Swordmasters/black guard/executioners just have too good defense.
    3. The right way to deal with ratling gunners is ancient salamanders. Holy crap are ancient salamanders good, especially if sent against special ranged squads like ratling gunners, artillery, elite archers and the like. 2xAncient salamanders+2xSalamander hunting packs is an ideal group for harassing an enemy side as the Ancient salamanders will murderize infantry while the hunting packs will just maul any cavalry or flyers that are fast enough to catch up. They don't quite hold up to facing the high elf archer-horde (not on their own), but if you distract the knifeears with some shielded skinks/saurus the salamanders will punch hard.
    4. The engine of the gods is nice in melee and it's a nice unit overall, but the Ark of Sotek is pretty much only good at holding enemies. It's good at it, and makes for perfect Flock of Doom bait, but it's not the greatest of units.
    5. If the enemy vampirates, you ripperdactyl. Vampirates are terrible when it comes to facing Lizardmen. Almost all Lizardmen units are so good against vampirates. The unly underperformers are terradons, skink skirmishers and saurus warriors (because saurus warriors are the slowest units you have).
    6. Blessed chameleon skinks are so good. I just never appreciated it before they introduced more ranged-focused units and factions.

    P.S: Red Skinks vs Bastiladons is how I think lizardmen invented croquet.

    This may or may not help but sisters of slaughter fuck up A LOT of things in melee. So don't feel bad about them blending red skinks. They have shit armor though so abuse their weakness to ranged.

    I'm guessing salamanders would wreck them?

    Maybe? Do salamanders have a lot of explosive damage or are they primarily valuable against monsters?

    The big thing about Sisters of Slaughter is that they have 60 melee defense. So anything that tries to tango with them in melee is probably going to lose simply because they are unlikely to land many blows. Though a rear charge will cut right through that due to the rear attack melee defense malus. The 20% physical resistance WILL apply to fire damage (don't ask me why but ethereal units still take 75% less damage from fire) so Salamanders won't be doing all that much more damage than normal to a melee unit.

    SoS are pretty dense though, so that might be a slight advantage if the explosive damage on salamander shots is good.

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    ArdolArdol Registered User regular
    Discovered that warp lightning destroys crenellations and eventually walls?! Does other magic do this and I just never noticed?

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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    All bombardments that can be targeted on walls do damage to walls iirc

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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    You will tend to get a dilemma when its low. Additionally giving the lord units and winning battles will modify their loyalty positively

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    ArdolArdol Registered User regular
    So it turns out that jezzails are even better at clearing walls when there's no cover on them!

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    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited April 2019
    Ardol wrote: »
    So it turns out that jezzails are even better at clearing walls when there's no cover on them!

    Ratling guns work pretty well too, especially when you get the infinite ammo bonus from the Forbidden Workshop.

    Thanks for the advice on loyalty, everyone.

    Terrendos on
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    FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    Things I've learned playing as Tehenhuain:
    1. Don't try to rush an ancient stegadon into two ratling gunners. In fact, just don't try to rush ratling gunners at all. The best way to keep them occupied is to bait them with a shielded saurus unit at long range.
    2. Red skinks are pretty low tier, but work well when supporting other skinks as a flanking group. They're A-tier units against globadiers and dwarfs (and give the lizards good early anti-dwarf units), but they're rather useless against elves. Especially Sisters of Slaughter will just crush Red skinks like they're nothing, and units like Swordmasters/black guard/executioners just have too good defense.
    3. The right way to deal with ratling gunners is ancient salamanders. Holy crap are ancient salamanders good, especially if sent against special ranged squads like ratling gunners, artillery, elite archers and the like. 2xAncient salamanders+2xSalamander hunting packs is an ideal group for harassing an enemy side as the Ancient salamanders will murderize infantry while the hunting packs will just maul any cavalry or flyers that are fast enough to catch up. They don't quite hold up to facing the high elf archer-horde (not on their own), but if you distract the knifeears with some shielded skinks/saurus the salamanders will punch hard.
    4. The engine of the gods is nice in melee and it's a nice unit overall, but the Ark of Sotek is pretty much only good at holding enemies. It's good at it, and makes for perfect Flock of Doom bait, but it's not the greatest of units.
    5. If the enemy vampirates, you ripperdactyl. Vampirates are terrible when it comes to facing Lizardmen. Almost all Lizardmen units are so good against vampirates. The unly underperformers are terradons, skink skirmishers and saurus warriors (because saurus warriors are the slowest units you have).
    6. Blessed chameleon skinks are so good. I just never appreciated it before they introduced more ranged-focused units and factions.

    P.S: Red Skinks vs Bastiladons is how I think lizardmen invented croquet.

    This may or may not help but sisters of slaughter fuck up A LOT of things in melee. So don't feel bad about them blending red skinks. They have shit armor though so abuse their weakness to ranged.

    I don't feel bad about it. I'm just saying that the only thing that makes Red Skinks worth it are their frenzy and high AP, and neither of those do anything to help you against Sisters of Slaughter. It's a terrible matchup (because the MA vs MD is in the absolute crapper) and literally any other unit will do better against sisters of slaughter. Even regular skinks have an advantage since they can open the fight with a volley of javelins.

    Chameleon skinks in cooperation with salamanders, ancient salamanders, ripperdactyls and cavalry are absolute MVPs against darkelves since they just rip them apart.
    DE cavalry and monsters? Pffft. Salamanders will rip them apart. DE missile troops will have to deal with the 55% missile resistance on chameleon skinks (40% base, then 15% on top of that from red skills), and they're not fast enough to catch up. Meanwhile the Ancient salamanders are just ripping them apart with their massive damage output and ripperdactyls can absolutely deal with harpies and artillery.
    The revamp of rampage also makes Lizardmen cavalry much better, so cavalry spear riders assist the salamanders early on and horned ones will perform charges on the flanks.
    Defeating enemy armies three times your size is not impossible with the right setup, and that was definitely not possible (or at least much harder) before the DLC. Salamanders, ancient salamanders and ripperdactyls just make the Lizardmen a completely different faction when it comes to skirmish tactics and that makes chameleons so much stronger now that you have other units that can support them in their role.

    Note also that a lizardmen skirmish army is so much cheaper in upkeep compared to the traditional Saurus line. About 25% cheaper upkeep, which really helps.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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    KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    I forget if items and followers you put on a skaven Lord will help with their loyalty as well but it's definitely winning battles and having a strong Army.

    Tried playing the new lizardmen Lord in Mortal Empires and after doing some Ikit claw mortal Empire campaign I'm just finding it so boring.

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    KruiteKruite Registered User regular
    Raiding will also keep them from going to zero

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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Always told myself I’d play Skaven if they added Ikit Claw.

    Sigh. Moving this over to the SSD.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    I am going to try to start Skrolk again. I think I am bad at Skaven

This discussion has been closed.