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Larry Nassar, USA Gymnastics, and Michigan State : Sports Abuse Scandals

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Posts

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    also:
    Stephens, whose father did not believe that she had been abused, says the fact she refused to apologize to Nassar was a constant subject in what had become a contentious relationship with her father. She says he branded her as a liar. Her father suffered from chronic debilitating physical pain throughout much of her life, and she says the cocktail of drugs he was prescribed to manage that affected his mental well-being.

    A month before she left for college in 2010, she decided it was time to try again to tell her father that Nassar had assaulted her.

    "I wasn't lying," she remembers telling him, before his hand shot out and pinned her neck to the chair where she was sitting. "Then he said -- well, he growled, 'What did you say?' I gasped, 'I wasn't lying.' He said it again. I was basically choking, and I said, 'I. Was. Not. Lying.' He just crumpled. You could see his face just completely shatter, like, 'Holy shit, this 18-year-old doesn't have any reason to stick to that story at this point.' He just sat on the couch and just stared into space for a while."

    On March 30, 2016, he died by suicide.

    Stephens says she reached a level of peace with her father in the years that followed that altercation. He told her he was wracked with guilt for believing Nassar, especially because he worked for many years as a caretaker in a home for abused children. She says she thinks the chronic pain with no hope of relief was the main reason her father took his life, but the guilt he felt in those final years "really broke his spirit and his belief that he was worth keeping alive."

    One of the two suicides we know of linked to Nassar. The other was one of his victims, Chelsea Markham. Suicidal thoughts have been a major theme from the victim statements this week. Which I have read too many of.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    I see they learned from Penn State. Deny deny deny and hope people forget in a couple years.

    The only way the board gets rid of Simon is if donations dry up.

    Since MSU is a public university, the seats are up for election, with two up this year.

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  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    This whole thing is a fucking farce, good lord this sickens me.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    I see they learned from Penn State. Deny deny deny and hope people forget in a couple years.

    The only way the board gets rid of Simon is if donations dry up.

    Since MSU is a public university, the seats are up for election, with two up this year.

    This may have gotten lost in the OP, but one of the two up this year outed a whistle blower* in a sexual assault case earlier this year.

    *Who was then kicked off the football team for allegedly committing sexual assault.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    The more I read about this case, the more physically ill it makes me.

    So this basically means every high profile female gymnast in the past, what...20 years might have been abused by this asshole?

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    And everyone who could have stopped it turned a blind eye/helped the abuser.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Yeah that’s what Raisman is implying.

    Also that Nassar was put in charge of writing policies to oversee the conduct of people such as himself, so there could be others taking advantage of whatever he did to get away with this for so long.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    The more I read about this case, the more physically ill it makes me.

    So this basically means every high profile female gymnast in the past, what...20 years might have been abused by this asshole?

    At least 22. He was the team doctor in Atlanta. Plus untold local athletes in East Lansing. And family friends.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Preacher
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited January 19
    The more I read about this case, the more physically ill it makes me.

    So this basically means every high profile female gymnast in the past, what...20 years might have been abused by this asshole?

    Closer to 30 - he was a trainer on the national teams in the late 80s.

    Again, all of the 2012 "Fierce Five" gymnasts have come out as his victims. The scope of his abuse is greater than that of Penn State and Baylor - combined.

    AngelHedgie on
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited January 19
    The more I read about this case, the more physically ill it makes me.

    So this basically means every high profile female gymnast in the past, what...20 years might have been abused by this asshole?

    Closer to 30 - he was a trainer on the national teams in the late 80s.

    Again, all of the 2012 "Fierce Five" gymnasts have come out as his victims. The scope of his abuse is greater than that of Penn State and Baylor - combined.

    I don't think Kyla Ross has come out as a survivor. The other four (Maroney, Douglas, Raisman, Wieber) have. Simone Biles, the 2016 individual gold medalist who was too young for 2012 has also said she was abused by Nassar, which might be why you're thinking five have.

    enlightenedbum on
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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited January 20
    The New York Times is pointing out that the US Olympic Committee has the authority to decertify USA Gymnastics as the official oversight body for the sport. Doing so would end the organization, as without that authority, their reason for existing would vanish.

    AngelHedgie on
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Anti-Simon signs were apparently not allowed to come into the Breslin Center tonight.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User, Moderator mod
    Anti-Simon signs were apparently not allowed to come into the Breslin Center tonight.

    Yeah, just silence people, that will make it go away, MSU

    Is no one else being prosecuted but Nassar? That's some hot bullshit. Everyone who can possibly be prosecuted for not reporting this or not taking the proper steps should be prosecuted.

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Anti-Simon signs were apparently not allowed to come into the Breslin Center tonight.

    Yeah, just silence people, that will make it go away, MSU

    Is no one else being prosecuted but Nassar? That's some hot bullshit. Everyone who can possibly be prosecuted for not reporting this or not taking the proper steps should be prosecuted.

    Wait, are they even allowed to do that as a public university?

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Anti-Simon signs were apparently not allowed to come into the Breslin Center tonight.

    Yeah, just silence people, that will make it go away, MSU

    Is no one else being prosecuted but Nassar? That's some hot bullshit. Everyone who can possibly be prosecuted for not reporting this or not taking the proper steps should be prosecuted.

    Thus far, yes.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    Freedom of speech only applies to Nazis, don't ya know.

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  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    I hope this results in the indefinite suspension of MSU's sports program, as well as a nationwide examination of prestige university sports programs and official conduct therein as it pertains to staff abuse of student athletes.

    I'm not holding my breath, though.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Dear MSU community member:

    With several events related to the terrible crimes committed by former MSU physician Larry Nassar in the news, I want to describe what we are doing to address the issues arising from this matter and, more importantly, the steps we are taking to support his victims, create the safest campus environment possible, and do our utmost to prevent something such as this from ever happening again.

    Today, the Board of Trustees wrote to Michigan State Attorney General Bill Schuette asking him to undertake a review of the events surrounding the Nassar matter. As the Board said, "We are making this request because we believe such a review is needed to answer questions that persist concerning MSU's handling of the Nassar situation."

    The testimony of Nassar's victims this week made many of us, including me, listen to the survivors and the community in a different way. It is clear to the Board and me that a review by the Attorney General's Office can provide the answers people need. I hope this review will help the survivors and the entire MSU community heal and move forward.

    Board Chair Brian Breslin and I watched the livestream of the first day of the victim impact statements, and Trustee Melanie Foster and I attended the afternoon session at court yesterday. It was heartbreaking to hear victims talk about how Nassar abused them and their trust. As I have said, I am truly sorry for the abuse Nassar's victims suffered, the pain it caused, and the pain it continues to cause. And I am sorry that a physician who called himself a Spartan so utterly betrayed everyone's trust and everything for which the university stands. The Board has joined me in expressing these sentiments, and I can assure you the Board and I are united in our commitment to help the survivors move forward with their lives.

    Toward this end, the Board last month authorized creation of a $10-million fund to help survivors access counseling and mental health services, and last week we announced additional details of this initiative. The Healing Assistance Fund will be administered by Commonwealth Mediation and Conciliation, Inc., a Boston firm with extensive experience coordinating such services. MSU student-athletes and patients seen by Nassar at an MSU health clinic who were abused by him, as well as the parents of these victims, will be able to use the fund. Survivors and their parents also will be able to obtain reimbursement for out-of-pocket expenses incurred for such services before the creation of the fund. Simply put, our goal is to support survivors by making sure they get the counseling or mental health help they need, with minimal worry about cost. We have also retained the Minnesota Coalition Against Sexual Assault, which will provide referral services for Nassar's victims who do not yet have counselors and need to locate providers near them.

    Our focus on survivors is necessary and appropriate, both now and in the future. But we also have taken a hard look at ourselves to learn from what happened. Since the fall of 2016, we have engaged external experts to comprehensively review various programs and recommend changes to strengthen our policies, procedures, and systems, including an examination of patient care and safety in our health clinics, our Title IX program, and how medical services are provided to student-athletes and others. In short, we have systematically reviewed and sought to improve every part of MSU's operations that were in any way connected to Nassar and his work, with the clear purpose of achieving the highest standards to protect students, athletes, and patients. Additional details are available on the MSU "Our Commitment" website: https://msu.edu/ourcommitment/.

    I believe we have achieved much on this front over the last year and a half, although I also understand introducing new procedures does not change what happened to Nassar's victims or the pain they feel. I am deeply committed to the pursuit of best practices, with external input and transparency about the status of our progress. You can be confident that we will continue to take additional steps to improve our systems.

    Apart from describing the work we are doing on behalf of survivors, I also want to update you on the significant developments taking place in the Nassar criminal and civil cases. Nassar has pleaded guilty in three criminal proceedings - federal child pornography charges, sexual assault cases in Ingham County, and sexual assault cases in Eaton County. He has been given the equivalent of a life sentence of 60 years for the pornography charges, the first of what I hope will be several lengthy prison sentences. This month, he will be sentenced separately in Ingham and Eaton counties. As I mentioned above, his victims are first being given the chance to make impact statements in court. This is happening now in Ingham County, where the proceedings are expected to run several days. The Eaton County court proceedings are scheduled for January 31. MSU and the MSU Police Department have worked and will continue to work with any law enforcement investigation looking into criminal matters involving Nassar. In particular, I want to thank the MSU Police and specifically the detectives in the Special Victims Unit, who spent countless hours helping bring Nassar to justice, as well as the FBI, the U.S. Attorney, and the Michigan Attorney General's Office.

    While the criminal cases are nearing conclusion, the civil litigation against MSU, involving multiple cases filed on behalf of victims, has begun to move forward. Last Friday, the university's lawyers filed motions to dismiss plaintiffs' claims based on a number of arguments. Given some of the criticism leveled at MSU, I hope you will keep a few important points in mind.

    First, MSU is entitled to, and its insurers require, that we will mount an appropriate defense of these cases. This means MSU's lawyers are making arguments in defense of the claims of civil liability. There is nothing extraordinary about such legal efforts - they are typical at this stage of civil litigation. Given Nassar's horrendous acts, these arguments can seem disrespectful to the victims. Please know that the defenses raised on MSU's behalf are in no way a reflection of our view of the survivors, for whom we have the utmost respect and sympathy, but rather represent, as the Board has said, our desire "to protect MSU's educational and research missions."

    Second, depending on the court's rulings on the initial legal arguments, the parties may enter into a period of "discovery," in which each side will be able to review relevant documents and depose relevant witnesses to determine what happened and when. The entire pre-trial process can be time consuming, but it is often the standard means by which complex cases like this are decided on legal grounds or brought forward to trial.

    So, as the litigation progresses in the months ahead, you will likely continue to hear a variety of allegations and accusations against the university. I ask for your patience as well as your understanding that MSU cannot litigate the cases in the media and that many public assertions may go unchallenged unless or until they are addressed in open court.

    The Board hired external legal counsel to assist MSU in responding to the Nassar allegations and specifically instructed them that if they find any evidence during their ongoing engagement that anyone at MSU other than Nassar knew of Nassar's criminal behavior and did anything to conceal or facilitate it, then that evidence of criminal conduct will be reported immediately to appropriate law enforcement authorities and the Board will be informed.

    In a recent letter to the Michigan State Attorney General, MSU's external counsel, including former U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald, underscored those clear instructions from the Board and stated that, ". . . the evidence will show that no MSU official believed that Nassar committed sexual abuse prior to newspaper reports in the summer of 2016."

    The FBI and MSU Police Department also conducted a joint investigation earlier this year into whether any university employee engaged in criminal conduct relating to Nassar's actions; there were no charges filed. I have complete faith in the legal process and in the professionalism and dedication of local, state, and federal law enforcement.

    We understand and respect the desire for information and details arising from the Nassar matter, which now spans 16 months, and we are committed to continuing to share whatever information we can with the MSU community and the public.

    I believe the bolded is the problem, no?

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Honestly alumni need to make this one hurt with pulling donations and such. Only way something changes is if money talks.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Honestly alumni need to make this one hurt with pulling donations and such. Only way something changes is if money talks.

    They're keeping her because of her fundraising prowess, is my understanding. So yeah.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • Jebus314Jebus314 Registered User regular
    I'm still super confused by the medical side of this. There are several people, and apparently several associated doctors, who are claiming that there are legitimate medical reasons for Nassar to put his hands inside women's vaginas to help with sore backs/legs/apparently everything.

    He apparently did not do anything correctly in terms of ethics, like wearing gloves, informing patients/guardians what the fuck was going on, having other doctors present to oversee, but still. How in the fuck is this seen as legitimate at all? I played sports and had injuries, and no one ever suggested I rub the inside of my body to help out. Am I crazy or is this like homeopathy levels of BS.

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  • MagellMagell Sphinx! Parts UnknownRegistered User regular
  • Jebus314Jebus314 Registered User regular
    edited January 20
    Not to mention there was apparently no fucking privacy at all. Multiple victims said that other people were present during some of the "treatments". Like the coach would just fucking walk in on a kid who was naked under a towel, being assaulted by the doctor, have a laugh about it, and then leave. Why would they be allowed in the room at all?

    Jebus314 on
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  • navgoosenavgoose Registered User regular
    It's total horsecrap jebus. If there were medical viability it would be done in other sports too.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Whoever the board members are need to be publicly named and shamed, and boycott anything they're involved with. For all the organizations involved. Burn them all to ground.

    navgoosePolaritie
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Whoever the board members are need to be publicly named and shamed, and boycott anything they're involved with. For all the organizations involved. Burn them all to ground.

    Go nuts:


    Brian Breslin, Chairman - 1/1/19*
    Joel I. Ferguson, Vice Chairman - 1/1/21*
    Dianne Byrum - 1/1/25*
    Melanie Foster - 1/1/23*
    Dan Kelly - 1/1/25*
    Mitch Lyons - 1/1/19*
    Brian Mosallam - 1/1/21*
    George Perles - 1/1/23*

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited January 20
    Jebus314 wrote: »
    I'm still super confused by the medical side of this. There are several people, and apparently several associated doctors, who are claiming that there are legitimate medical reasons for Nassar to put his hands inside women's vaginas to help with sore backs/legs/apparently everything.

    He apparently did not do anything correctly in terms of ethics, like wearing gloves, informing patients/guardians what the fuck was going on, having other doctors present to oversee, but still. How in the fuck is this seen as legitimate at all? I played sports and had injuries, and no one ever suggested I rub the inside of my body to help out. Am I crazy or is this like homeopathy levels of BS.

    The doctors that said that all had professional and personal ties to Nassar. One of those doctors, who was considered to be his protege, was later caught removing records from his files after he was fired from MSU.

    Edit: Aly Raisman recounted in her memoir that when she went to see another doctor and they donned gloves before the examination, she was surprised, because she didn't know that wearing gloves was standard medical procedure.

    AngelHedgie on
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Tom Izzo has endorsed Simon's continued employment, so I'm glad to have another reason to loathe him.

    Someday, the full Keith Appling and Adrian Payne story is going to come out, in a tangentially related story.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • RingoRingo Stardust, Golden Caught in a Devil's BargainRegistered User regular
    Well, fuck Tom Izzo then

    Burn it all down

    ceres wrote: »
    I'm just going to go ahead and lock this thread before I feel any worse about humanity.
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    "Well, obviously our hearts go out to the victims in this case. It’s a very, very difficult situation for them. It’s awful. I guess with that said, in 11 years of dealing with President Simon on so many different occasions and in so many different areas, I’ve always found her to be very reflective, very calm in the storm, very on-point. And I’ve always appreciated that about her. She’s much like a head coach. In my little world that I’m in – and I can’t control things at times – I would say she is in a very difficult and delicate situation. I really don’t think that I’m even qualified to talk on it, but I can only speak to my involvement with her and how she’s handled very difficult situations. I think she’s led from that perspective with Mark Dantonio and our football team."

    The other most prominent employee at MSU said... I think if you really look at that literally means nothing. Which is better than Izzo trying to play both sides.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • Mr KhanMr Khan Not Everyone WAHHHRegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Honestly alumni need to make this one hurt with pulling donations and such. Only way something changes is if money talks.

    The problem being that alumni do the opposite, as shown with Penn State, where they just circle the wagons and actively make the problem worse as a backlash.

    I'd agree that MSU is taking notes from Sandusky on this. They believe, possibly "rightly" (if your only interest is to protect the prestige of the university), that Penn State's biggest mistake was in acknowledging that wrongdoing occurred and trying to take corrective action, because it was too little too late for the people who were mad about it, while the people who care more about football than about giving a damn about abused children got mad at them for raising a stink in the first place. So you just do what you can to stonewall the whole thing and hope it blows over.

    shrykeMagell
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Mr Khan wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Honestly alumni need to make this one hurt with pulling donations and such. Only way something changes is if money talks.

    The problem being that alumni do the opposite, as shown with Penn State, where they just circle the wagons and actively make the problem worse as a backlash.

    I'd agree that MSU is taking notes from Sandusky on this. They believe, possibly "rightly" (if your only interest is to protect the prestige of the university), that Penn State's biggest mistake was in acknowledging that wrongdoing occurred and trying to take corrective action, because it was too little too late for the people who were mad about it, while the people who care more about football than about giving a damn about abused children got mad at them for raising a stink in the first place. So you just do what you can to stonewall the whole thing and hope it blows over.

    They're not even pretending to use Simon as a scapegoat to blame everything on, which is super corrupt. And of course, this goes into the organization's culture - which is going to take a huge spring cleaning, replacing everyone with influence and maintaining a non-toxic atmosphere. It's disturbing how Penn State is junior league compared this in scale. Holy shit, I didn't think that was possible.

    FencingsaxPolaritie
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    it's like this in a lot of things. people love to dump on the blatant offender(nassar) while doing nothing to address the systematic issues underneath

    Harry Dresdennavgoose
  • LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    With MSU there appears to be at least some ability to get rid of the complicit parties. Even if the board is currently protecting the president, they themselves can be voted out. The whole process will just take longer than it should.

    I’m really concerned the USAG really will get away scott free with all of this. They protected Nasser for reasons I cannot fathom. I whole heartedly disagree with MSU’s reasons (prestige of having the national team doctor on staff), but at least they’re there unlike with USAG. They sat back and allowed young athletes dreams coming true to turn into literal nightmares. The whole body needs dropped and replaced.

    Harry Dresden
  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    I want to know what kind of power you need to have to enable a environment to allow this kind of... abuse is putting it too lightly. Rape factory would perhaps be more accurate, but I'm not sure even that is voicing it fully.

    Is it JUST because sports is money and those in charge have their kids in the same private school as they sip martins and talk about the students they plan to rape or?

  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited January 20
    I think its a very complex mess and network of issues unfortunately. Not as an excuse but as an explanation its an intersection of lots of different attitudes, understandings, agendas, etc. The problematic nature of treating a vulnerable young group of children as a commodity which needs to be pressed into a preset mold in order to win glory for an institution would be the overarching issue that feeds into all these other problems. The most pressing issue in all these sports institutions is that money/glory/prestige are more important than all other considerations, and there is a "factory" like quality at work here too, treating the children as products on a production line rather than as vulnerable individuals. And the children are aware of this pressure too. I wouldnt be surprised if beyond the physical abuse mental abuse and problems of stress and pressure are a massive issue as well. Which likely leads to even more vulnerable individuals who feel broken down and dependent.

    Combine that with human beings general "dont rock the boat" and other power structures and you've got a recipe for disaster

    I say burn it all down

    Prohass on
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Mr Khan wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Honestly alumni need to make this one hurt with pulling donations and such. Only way something changes is if money talks.

    The problem being that alumni do the opposite, as shown with Penn State, where they just circle the wagons and actively make the problem worse as a backlash.

    I'd agree that MSU is taking notes from Sandusky on this. They believe, possibly "rightly" (if your only interest is to protect the prestige of the university), that Penn State's biggest mistake was in acknowledging that wrongdoing occurred and trying to take corrective action, because it was too little too late for the people who were mad about it, while the people who care more about football than about giving a damn about abused children got mad at them for raising a stink in the first place. So you just do what you can to stonewall the whole thing and hope it blows over.

    Yup. The problem is the same as always: people care more about college athletics and pride then, like, stopping the rape of children. So you create an institution with easy access to a steady stream of victims and the desire and the public backing to cover up anything that happens.

    PreacherMrVyngaardFencingsaxGabriel_Pittchrono_traveller
  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Jebus314 wrote: »
    I played sports and had injuries, and no one ever suggested I rub the inside of my body to help out. Am I crazy or is this like homeopathy levels of BS.

    Not really homepathic BS. There are several drug free ways of pain management:
    1. Distraction. Introducing other sensations or thoughts will reduce your brains ability to register pain. Which is one of the reasons why many doctors will jiggle the spot where they're sticking the needle (when they apply local anaesthesia), but also why one of the best ways to overcome chronic pain is to stay busy.
    2. Putting the pain into a context. Your ability to overcome pain is insanely enhanced by putting it into a context where your brain can rationalize "This pain isn't dangerous per se, it's a part of a necessary task". Used a lot in more serious self-defence classes (for example training with a shock-knife when practicing how to defend yourself from a knife).
    3. Mental setting. If you feel positive/good your ability to manage pain is significantly increased. You can also reduce your ability to feel pain through certain meditation practices. The association of pain with pleasure will also greately enhance your ability to cope with that pain (a bit of point 2 and 3 there).

    So having an orgasm (or otherwise experiencing sexual pleasure) can reduce percieved pain and consistently following pain with pleasure will enhance your ability to cope with pain, but it's so not justified in this context.
    That last part is the important one. This is so not justified in this context.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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