WAKANDA FOREVER! [Black Panther] Is out now

Snicketysnick

Black Panther is out! Curiously without the Rest of the World head start.

Just look at this cast!



James Brown! Johnny Storm! Amanda Waller! Idi Amin! Gollum! That really nice porn actor from Love Actually!

Plus Ryan "Creed AKA the best Rocky film in ages" Coogler at the helm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjDjIWPwcPU

It's reportedly very good and selling like hotcakes, which is fantastic.

My only worry is it not quite living up to the hype, but we'll see on Friday I suppose. My one wish is that Michael B Jordan survives and gets to meet Chris Evans at some point, just for that gag.

As always, err on the side of caution when using spoilers.

Peas

I love everything about it except for the

Final battle, it was too boring and cheesy for me. The sunset part was great though

Bogart

Everything about this was very good indeed except for maybe how average some of the action was.

Vague spoilers.

Everything in the movie works. There are no boring bits, no scenes I wished they had cut, no false notes, no cheesy bits, no point at which I was unsure who was on screen, what anyone on screen was thinking or who was where in the action scenes. Relationships were clear, well-motivated and believable, the villain was fully realised and understandable and a little sympathetic, and the hero developed alongside the general theme of the movie. The performances are uniformly excellent. Not a single duff one among the dozen or so parts that make up what feels like an ensemble cast more than one lead and a few supporting roles. Danai Gurira is the best, though. Andy Serkis enjoys himself.

Wakanda is a very well-realised science fiction setting with a style that is unlike anything I've seen before, and has an impact, for me at least, like the impact the Fifth Element had. It feels new and of itself, rather than owing a debt to countless imagined SF locations of movies before. The use of colour is excellent and hopefully another marker on the way to Marvel movies looking more interesting and less washed out. The costume design is absurdly good.

The action is very often only OK. A couple of scenes are good, some are forgettable, others feel like things we've seen before done in ways we've seen before (two CGI guys falling through the air punching one another). Some stuff is most definitely not something we've seen before (war rhinos!).

The score is excellent, mixing African music with African-American music and more traditional American movie music.

As a Marvel fan who bought his first Black Panther comic thirty years ago this felt like a fantastic, faithful and also bang up to date rendering of the character in an exciting, well-written and involving movie. Reading the reactions of African-American fans it is obviously something more than that as well, which is a joy to witness.

Grey Ghost

Seeing this toniiiiiight

see317

I'm guessing we're past the point of asking if there are post credit scenes, so I'll ask instead how many are there?

Peas

2

Kyougu

Gonna be me tonight at the theatre.

Desert Leviathan

Plans to see it tonight fell through, so I'm hitting a Saturday morning matinee. Gonna be like a billion kids in that theater, but that's all right, I'll just wear something I don't mind somebody spilling their nachos on.

Rainfall

Gonna see it late tomorrow. Pretty hyped!
On the other hand if it's bad, I'm done with Marvel in theatres.

DouglasDanger

I'm seeing this Saturday.

Lalabox

General spoilers

i'm interested in reading someone smarter and more knowledheable than me unpack the politics of the film because i can't help but shake the feeling that it's a very neoliberal take on the subject

The framing at the end of the solution to oppression being cultural outreach centres and science exchange programs just rubs me the wrong way

Anzekay

We went to go see this on Tuesday night

except when we got to the cinema, we found out the entire complex had a power outage.

Hermano

Lalabox wrote: »

General spoilers

i'm interested in reading someone smarter and more knowledheable than me unpack the politics of the film because i can't help but shake the feeling that it's a very neoliberal take on the subject

The framing at the end of the solution to oppression being cultural outreach centres and science exchange programs just rubs me the wrong way

Did you watch the post credit scenes?

It's pretty clear they're going to do more than the outreach centres

Hermano

Anyway, I liked this movie a lot, it was gorgeous, the cast was superb, the villain was good, the humour was well done. Seriously the cast we're good, so many great side characters

Everybody should go witness the might of the Jabari, first hand

Turambar

I love Andy Serkis' look as Klaw

He's just perfect for the part

McFodder

General spoilers

I thought the action scenes were (while still pretty good) one of the weaker parts of the movie. I absolutely loved the way BP moved in Civil War, and he didn't come off the same way in most of the fights here - which makes sense because he was either de-powered or fighting similarly powered up opponents for the majority of them.

With all the focus on the soundtrack I was expecting to be a bit more prominent as well, but I might notice that more on rewatches.

Psykoma

I kinda really loved everything about this movie.

KingofMadCows

I guess

Bucky will now get two metal arms. One steel for fighting humans and one silver for fighting monsters.

Romanian My Escutcheon

I'm gonna need some time to mull it over, but I think Black Panther just usurped Winter Soldier as my favorite Marvel movie?

It's definitely Top 3.

Grey Ghost

This fuckin' ruled

Kyougu

Fantastic movie.

My biggest knock is that there's some BAD cg and green screen. Like distractingly bad. It stands out so much because everything else about the movie is top notch.

Badablack

Movie was pretty rad, probably the most sympathetic villain marvel has put out while still being a scum bag.

I really like that the White Ape villain from the comics was more fleshed out and made an eventual ally instead of this weird tribe of evil jungle people.

I liked that jab near the end at current politics:

“The wise build bridges, the foolish build barriers.”

Grey Ghost

I know this is the most minor of things to point out first but Jesus everyone in this movie looks so fuckin cool
The style is off the charts

Dedwrekka

I want M'Baku in everything

Grey Ghost

I think the hardest I laughed

was when they bring Ross into the lab for treatment and Shuri doesn't miss a beat and goes "oh good, another broken white boy for us to fix"

Dedwrekka

The biggest pop in my audience

"What're thoooose!"

The biggest gasp in my audience

Killmonger stabbing T'challa in the stomach.
A few women screamed at that point

DJ Eebs

Lalabox wrote: »

General spoilers

i'm interested in reading someone smarter and more knowledheable than me unpack the politics of the film because i can't help but shake the feeling that it's a very neoliberal take on the subject

The framing at the end of the solution to oppression being cultural outreach centres and science exchange programs just rubs me the wrong way

hmm

I don't think that's exactly the message the movie is attempting to send, but the politics of Wakanda don't map 1:1 to the real world, which can muddle it a bit.

Killmonger's approach is...very American in its scope. He wants to arm rebellions, destabilize nations, and claim them for Wakanda. He straight up says "the sun won't set on the Wakandan empire," which, morally you don't want to be in the same breath as Britain at the height of its colonization efforts. There's a reason Martin Freeman claims that he's "one of ours."

But the isolationist policy they use throughout Wakanda's history isn't the solution either. Killmonger is right that Wakanda let people suffer to protect itself, and it's important to note that Nakia also believes this, having witnessed this suffering first hand.

T'Challa's solution, as presented in this, isn't perfect either, but he's right not to send Wakandan weapons out into the world, I think, especially given their destructive properties. And he's right that it isn't right to take over other countries to impose his way upon them, no matter their power, no matter their righteousness. I do not believe that his plans would stop at outreach centers and science and tech sharing programs, and I don't think it's even implied that his solution would end all oppression.

But I'm sure we'll be seeing very interesting reads on this movie for a while.

Pinfeldorf

So far this is my favorite Marvel movie. Letitita Wright, Michael B. Jordan and Daniel Kaluuya were all great. The cast was just really well put together. Everyone seemed to have decent chemistry with who they were supposed to get along with, and at no point was my suspense of disbelief really broken by, "Oh right this is a comic book movie." Aside from the first couple scenes in the movie being too dark to really track, I loved everything about this movie. Also probably my second favorite chase scene in Hollywoo movie history.

Romanian My Escutcheon

I think we all need to take a moment and acknowledge that Danai Gurira is an absolute badass, and if she is charging at you with a spear, the only smart move is to get down on the ground and hope for the best.

-Tal

The Geebs That Knows Everything About Animorphs wrote: »

Lalabox wrote: »

General spoilers

i'm interested in reading someone smarter and more knowledheable than me unpack the politics of the film because i can't help but shake the feeling that it's a very neoliberal take on the subject

The framing at the end of the solution to oppression being cultural outreach centres and science exchange programs just rubs me the wrong way

hmm

I don't think that's exactly the message the movie is attempting to send, but the politics of Wakanda don't map 1:1 to the real world, which can muddle it a bit.

Killmonger's approach is...very American in its scope. He wants to arm rebellions, destabilize nations, and claim them for Wakanda. He straight up says "the sun won't set on the Wakandan empire," which, morally you don't want to be in the same breath as Britain at the height of its colonization efforts. There's a reason Martin Freeman claims that he's "one of ours."

But the isolationist policy they use throughout Wakanda's history isn't the solution either. Killmonger is right that Wakanda let people suffer to protect itself, and it's important to note that Nakia also believes this, having witnessed this suffering first hand.

T'Challa's solution, as presented in this, isn't perfect either, but he's right not to send Wakandan weapons out into the world, I think, especially given their destructive properties. And he's right that it isn't right to take over other countries to impose his way upon them, no matter their power, no matter their righteousness. I do not believe that his plans would stop at outreach centers and science and tech sharing programs, and I don't think it's even implied that his solution would end all oppression.

But I'm sure we'll be seeing very interesting reads on this movie for a while.

now I don't think wakanda should do an imperalism either but helping back people fight back against their oppressors sounds like a good idea and t'challa's actions at the end are very... moderate, to say the least, especially compared to the tack thor 3 took from the other side of imperalism that if the descendants of the colonizers want to rehabilitate themselves they don't get to keep the spoils of colonization

it is a particularly egregious example of a problem a lot of movies have which is "villain makes a good point, then goes too far so we need to stop him, which also means we don't need to think too hard about the point he made"

like even if t'challa just fuckin like, used his wealth to buy up decaying projects in oakland and renovate them into not just a cultural outreach center but also like, good affordable housing for black people, that would be a big step up

but this is all complicated by the fact that black panther is set in earth and not in space and you can only alter the status quo of earth so much, luke cage season 2 still needs to happen

Dark Raven X

I was pleasantly surprised at the lack of tie ins to the larger universe.

Sure this technically follows up the plot from Age of Ultron, the stolen Vibranium sold by Klaw to Ultron to build the engine of Sokovia's destruction which lead to an outreach program in Nigeria where Wakandans died which lead to T'Chaka going to the UN and getting blown up which lead here... but that was all entirely non essential and you'd miss nothing by starting here. Though recapping it like that made me appreciate all over again how well Black Panther was introduced prior to his origin.

This late in the game, figured it was a sure thing to get an Avenger cameo or an Infinity Stone drop, but nada. The latter especially, thought the Veldt was gonna be the Soul Stone. Guess it still could be. But it was nice to be reassured that there are still gonna be jumping on points for these movies that don't require previous reading

Dedwrekka

-Tal wrote: »

The Geebs That Knows Everything About Animorphs wrote: »

Lalabox wrote: »

General spoilers

i'm interested in reading someone smarter and more knowledheable than me unpack the politics of the film because i can't help but shake the feeling that it's a very neoliberal take on the subject

The framing at the end of the solution to oppression being cultural outreach centres and science exchange programs just rubs me the wrong way

hmm

I don't think that's exactly the message the movie is attempting to send, but the politics of Wakanda don't map 1:1 to the real world, which can muddle it a bit.

Killmonger's approach is...very American in its scope. He wants to arm rebellions, destabilize nations, and claim them for Wakanda. He straight up says "the sun won't set on the Wakandan empire," which, morally you don't want to be in the same breath as Britain at the height of its colonization efforts. There's a reason Martin Freeman claims that he's "one of ours."

But the isolationist policy they use throughout Wakanda's history isn't the solution either. Killmonger is right that Wakanda let people suffer to protect itself, and it's important to note that Nakia also believes this, having witnessed this suffering first hand.

T'Challa's solution, as presented in this, isn't perfect either, but he's right not to send Wakandan weapons out into the world, I think, especially given their destructive properties. And he's right that it isn't right to take over other countries to impose his way upon them, no matter their power, no matter their righteousness. I do not believe that his plans would stop at outreach centers and science and tech sharing programs, and I don't think it's even implied that his solution would end all oppression.

But I'm sure we'll be seeing very interesting reads on this movie for a while.

now I don't think wakanda should do an imperalism either but helping back people fight back against their oppressors sounds like a good idea and t'challa's actions at the end are very... moderate, to say the least, especially compared to the tack thor 3 took from the other side of imperalism that if the descendants of the colonizers want to rehabilitate themselves they don't get to keep the spoils of colonization

it is a particularly egregious example of a problem a lot of movies have which is "villain makes a good point, then goes too far so we need to stop him, which also means we don't need to think too hard about the point he made"

like even if t'challa just fuckin like, used his wealth to buy up decaying projects in oakland and renovate them into not just a cultural outreach center but also like, good affordable housing for black people, that would be a big step up

But T'challa does think about the point he made. That's pretty specifically what changes his mind and tips him fully to Nakia's way of thinking, the idea that his father and all the other Black Panthers sacrificed everyone else in order to stay hidden. He sees that Killmonger was right in that Wakanda made the wrong decision to protect themselves at the expense of everything around them.

I see T'Challa's outreach as his way of saying: The way we improve is not by becoming imperialists, which was Killmonger's idea, but by those who have escaped these problems reaching back to uplift those who are still affected by them. Killmonger was right that they had to do something, but he was wrong in the idea that what they had to do was become the oppressors.

miscellaneousinsanity

THIS MOVIE WAS SO GOOD

-Tal

Dedwrekka wrote: »

-Tal wrote: »

The Geebs That Knows Everything About Animorphs wrote: »

Lalabox wrote: »

General spoilers

i'm interested in reading someone smarter and more knowledheable than me unpack the politics of the film because i can't help but shake the feeling that it's a very neoliberal take on the subject

The framing at the end of the solution to oppression being cultural outreach centres and science exchange programs just rubs me the wrong way

hmm

I don't think that's exactly the message the movie is attempting to send, but the politics of Wakanda don't map 1:1 to the real world, which can muddle it a bit.

Killmonger's approach is...very American in its scope. He wants to arm rebellions, destabilize nations, and claim them for Wakanda. He straight up says "the sun won't set on the Wakandan empire," which, morally you don't want to be in the same breath as Britain at the height of its colonization efforts. There's a reason Martin Freeman claims that he's "one of ours."

But the isolationist policy they use throughout Wakanda's history isn't the solution either. Killmonger is right that Wakanda let people suffer to protect itself, and it's important to note that Nakia also believes this, having witnessed this suffering first hand.

T'Challa's solution, as presented in this, isn't perfect either, but he's right not to send Wakandan weapons out into the world, I think, especially given their destructive properties. And he's right that it isn't right to take over other countries to impose his way upon them, no matter their power, no matter their righteousness. I do not believe that his plans would stop at outreach centers and science and tech sharing programs, and I don't think it's even implied that his solution would end all oppression.

But I'm sure we'll be seeing very interesting reads on this movie for a while.

now I don't think wakanda should do an imperalism either but helping back people fight back against their oppressors sounds like a good idea and t'challa's actions at the end are very... moderate, to say the least, especially compared to the tack thor 3 took from the other side of imperalism that if the descendants of the colonizers want to rehabilitate themselves they don't get to keep the spoils of colonization

it is a particularly egregious example of a problem a lot of movies have which is "villain makes a good point, then goes too far so we need to stop him, which also means we don't need to think too hard about the point he made"

like even if t'challa just fuckin like, used his wealth to buy up decaying projects in oakland and renovate them into not just a cultural outreach center but also like, good affordable housing for black people, that would be a big step up

But T'challa does think about the point he made. That's pretty specifically what changes his mind and tips him fully to Nakia's way of thinking, the idea that his father and all the other Black Panthers sacrificed everyone else in order to stay hidden. He sees that Killmonger was right in that Wakanda made the wrong decision to protect themselves at the expense of everything around them.

I see T'Challa's outreach as his way of saying: The way we improve is not by becoming imperialists, which was Killmonger's idea, but by those who have escaped these problems reaching back to uplift those who are still affected by them. Killmonger was right that they had to do something, but he was wrong in the idea that what they had to do was become the oppressors.

what of the world of potential actions to take between building a cultural outreach center and making an empire which never sees the beautiful sunset

maybe t'challa is indeed planning to do more but the movie doesn't talk about that

manwiththemachinegun

Pinfeldorf wrote: »

So far this is my favorite Marvel movie. Letitita Wright, Michael B. Jordan and Daniel Kaluuya were all great. The cast was just really well put together. Everyone seemed to have decent chemistry with who they were supposed to get along with, and at no point was my suspense of disbelief really broken by, "Oh right this is a comic book movie." Aside from the first couple scenes in the movie being too dark to really track, I loved everything about this movie. Also probably my second favorite chase scene in Hollywoo movie history.

You should probably check out a little movie called Ronin when you get the chance if you like car chases. Especially ones without CGI.

Seeing this over the weekend, but it already looks like it has higher critical acclaim than Iron Man which is definitely a good place to start.

Dedwrekka

-Tal wrote: »

Dedwrekka wrote: »

-Tal wrote: »

The Geebs That Knows Everything About Animorphs wrote: »

Lalabox wrote: »

General spoilers

i'm interested in reading someone smarter and more knowledheable than me unpack the politics of the film because i can't help but shake the feeling that it's a very neoliberal take on the subject

The framing at the end of the solution to oppression being cultural outreach centres and science exchange programs just rubs me the wrong way

hmm

I don't think that's exactly the message the movie is attempting to send, but the politics of Wakanda don't map 1:1 to the real world, which can muddle it a bit.

Killmonger's approach is...very American in its scope. He wants to arm rebellions, destabilize nations, and claim them for Wakanda. He straight up says "the sun won't set on the Wakandan empire," which, morally you don't want to be in the same breath as Britain at the height of its colonization efforts. There's a reason Martin Freeman claims that he's "one of ours."

But the isolationist policy they use throughout Wakanda's history isn't the solution either. Killmonger is right that Wakanda let people suffer to protect itself, and it's important to note that Nakia also believes this, having witnessed this suffering first hand.

T'Challa's solution, as presented in this, isn't perfect either, but he's right not to send Wakandan weapons out into the world, I think, especially given their destructive properties. And he's right that it isn't right to take over other countries to impose his way upon them, no matter their power, no matter their righteousness. I do not believe that his plans would stop at outreach centers and science and tech sharing programs, and I don't think it's even implied that his solution would end all oppression.

But I'm sure we'll be seeing very interesting reads on this movie for a while.

now I don't think wakanda should do an imperalism either but helping back people fight back against their oppressors sounds like a good idea and t'challa's actions at the end are very... moderate, to say the least, especially compared to the tack thor 3 took from the other side of imperalism that if the descendants of the colonizers want to rehabilitate themselves they don't get to keep the spoils of colonization

it is a particularly egregious example of a problem a lot of movies have which is "villain makes a good point, then goes too far so we need to stop him, which also means we don't need to think too hard about the point he made"

like even if t'challa just fuckin like, used his wealth to buy up decaying projects in oakland and renovate them into not just a cultural outreach center but also like, good affordable housing for black people, that would be a big step up

But T'challa does think about the point he made. That's pretty specifically what changes his mind and tips him fully to Nakia's way of thinking, the idea that his father and all the other Black Panthers sacrificed everyone else in order to stay hidden. He sees that Killmonger was right in that Wakanda made the wrong decision to protect themselves at the expense of everything around them.

I see T'Challa's outreach as his way of saying: The way we improve is not by becoming imperialists, which was Killmonger's idea, but by those who have escaped these problems reaching back to uplift those who are still affected by them. Killmonger was right that they had to do something, but he was wrong in the idea that what they had to do was become the oppressors.

what of the world of potential actions to take between building a cultural outreach center and making an empire which never sees the beautiful sunset

maybe t'challa is indeed planning to do more but the movie doesn't talk about that

He's putting Nakia in charge of the cultural outreach and he's putting his sister in charge of the scientific outreach.
That the center is going to be more than a community center is pretty strongly implied by the movie.

Nakia is the one who was infiltrating the captured group and helping people in direct ways.

Shuri is the one inventing healing machines and nano robotics.

I have no idea why you think these people aren't actually going to do something to help.

Lalabox

-Tal wrote: »

Dedwrekka wrote: »

-Tal wrote: »

The Geebs That Knows Everything About Animorphs wrote: »

Lalabox wrote: »

General spoilers

i'm interested in reading someone smarter and more knowledheable than me unpack the politics of the film because i can't help but shake the feeling that it's a very neoliberal take on the subject

The framing at the end of the solution to oppression being cultural outreach centres and science exchange programs just rubs me the wrong way

hmm

I don't think that's exactly the message the movie is attempting to send, but the politics of Wakanda don't map 1:1 to the real world, which can muddle it a bit.

Killmonger's approach is...very American in its scope. He wants to arm rebellions, destabilize nations, and claim them for Wakanda. He straight up says "the sun won't set on the Wakandan empire," which, morally you don't want to be in the same breath as Britain at the height of its colonization efforts. There's a reason Martin Freeman claims that he's "one of ours."

But the isolationist policy they use throughout Wakanda's history isn't the solution either. Killmonger is right that Wakanda let people suffer to protect itself, and it's important to note that Nakia also believes this, having witnessed this suffering first hand.

T'Challa's solution, as presented in this, isn't perfect either, but he's right not to send Wakandan weapons out into the world, I think, especially given their destructive properties. And he's right that it isn't right to take over other countries to impose his way upon them, no matter their power, no matter their righteousness. I do not believe that his plans would stop at outreach centers and science and tech sharing programs, and I don't think it's even implied that his solution would end all oppression.

But I'm sure we'll be seeing very interesting reads on this movie for a while.

now I don't think wakanda should do an imperalism either but helping back people fight back against their oppressors sounds like a good idea and t'challa's actions at the end are very... moderate, to say the least, especially compared to the tack thor 3 took from the other side of imperalism that if the descendants of the colonizers want to rehabilitate themselves they don't get to keep the spoils of colonization

it is a particularly egregious example of a problem a lot of movies have which is "villain makes a good point, then goes too far so we need to stop him, which also means we don't need to think too hard about the point he made"

like even if t'challa just fuckin like, used his wealth to buy up decaying projects in oakland and renovate them into not just a cultural outreach center but also like, good affordable housing for black people, that would be a big step up

But T'challa does think about the point he made. That's pretty specifically what changes his mind and tips him fully to Nakia's way of thinking, the idea that his father and all the other Black Panthers sacrificed everyone else in order to stay hidden. He sees that Killmonger was right in that Wakanda made the wrong decision to protect themselves at the expense of everything around them.

I see T'Challa's outreach as his way of saying: The way we improve is not by becoming imperialists, which was Killmonger's idea, but by those who have escaped these problems reaching back to uplift those who are still affected by them. Killmonger was right that they had to do something, but he was wrong in the idea that what they had to do was become the oppressors.

what of the world of potential actions to take between building a cultural outreach center and making an empire which never sees the beautiful sunset

maybe t'challa is indeed planning to do more but the movie doesn't talk about that

yeah, i had hoped that the film might be a bit more revolutionary? (Although typing it out that does sound silly,it's still a marvel movie)

Instead the ending speech felt a bit like obama's inauguration speech.

Jimothy

This movie was excellent, definitely the most artful MCU film, Wakanda was so well-realized and cool

Shuri was by far my favorite, put her in everything

miscellaneousinsanity

Grey Ghost wrote: »

I know this is the most minor of things to point out first but Jesus everyone in this movie looks so fuckin cool
The style is off the charts

Black Panther wins Best Styyyyyyyyyyyyle, without question

Mvrck

So. Fucking. Good.

I have a ton of thoughts, but I think I really need to see it a second time to hash them all out properly, as a white guy. I will say, this was absolutely a film made by persons of color, for persons of color. And it is so much the better for it.

Eddy

I cried like a little baby at a certain point near the end