Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
I was talking to my friend who lives in Holland and he was telling me how they get forty days off a year.
And I was like, wow! That's amazing! I'd love that. Then I realised as I said that I realised that I was half way through my six week summer break.....
Unlimited sick leave. Basically all you need here is a doctor's note. And that only from the second day on.
I don't know how it works if someone is "sick" for a day every week.
Basically people will bitch about it behind your back and that's it.
It is extremely difficult for a company to do something about it if you have notes from a doctor. The absolute most a company can demand is that you go to a doctor of their choice. And even that has to happen in cooperation with your health insurance.
Unlimited sick leave. Basically all you need here is a doctor's note. And that only from the second day on.
I don't know how it works if someone is "sick" for a day every week.
So in NY for hourly employees you have to pick a unit to measure time by. Most places go by the 1/4th hour. What this means is that if you clock in 2 minutes late, they still need to pay for that full quarter hour. Similarly if you clock out 8 minutes late then they need to pay you for that overtime. HR here struggles with the idea that if they always clock in 2 minutes late you still have to pay them but you can also discipline them. Like legal obligation for wages are different than "You're always fucking late, stop it or we'll fire you."
I'd strongly suspect being sick one day every week would end up in that sort of job evaluation.
El SkidThe frozen white northRegistered Userregular
I think after a while of being in a system that doesn't pay you if you're sick, or you have extremely limited sick days, or similar dicking around by the system, you start to see paid sick days as a holy grail to be coveted and maybe schemed where possible.
Whereas there are plenty of places in the world that you have plenty of sick days and you don't need to abuse the system or whatever, and don't need to have overbearing policies around sick leave. If you're sick, you call in and don't come in, and there are systems in place to cover for you. If you're sick for an extended period there are safety nets around that don't put that burden on the employer- you get paid most of your cheque while you recover from whatever on taxpayer money until you are better, then you come back to your job that you still have.
Obviously there will be people somewhere that abuse the system and call in sick when they aren't, but they generally don't advance and get stuck in menial jobs, and/or are let go without a good reference.
I'm sorry, (most) Americans... your system of employment laws, safety nets and the health care that is tied to all that is a bit of a mess
I have 15 days of 'Paid Time Off' which doesn't differentiate between sick, vacation, or time I can't work because bomb dogs are clearing the building.
Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
In NYS anyways, if they told you to go home because bomb dogs are clearing the building they can't use your time for that and have to pay you as if you were working.
However if they do the "hey would you like to go home?" before dismissing people, then you're opting to use time instead and that's when they can get away with it. Even some red states have laws like that so double check your local laws and more importantly fight them on it when they try it next time.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
+1
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
I'm going to be at school in June to keep the library open during Summer School like last year.
It is pretty easy money and only mornings. Look forward to doing lots of reading and playing video games while getting paid.
thatassemblyguyJanitor of Technical Debt.Registered Userregular
I get 5 sick days, but the rest of our PTO is 'untracked'. They try to sell it as unlimited, but basically it means I don't have any official footing to push back on my manager when I want to take time off.
With PTO, I would be able to say, "I have these hours, and I'm using them." With untracked PTO, it's up to the manager to agree. Which is a problem if the team is always in fire-fighting mode.
+5
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El SkidThe frozen white northRegistered Userregular
I get 5 sick days, but the rest of our PTO is 'untracked'. They try to sell it as unlimited, but basically it means I don't have any official footing to push back on my manager when I want to take time off.
With PTO, I would be able to say, "I have these hours, and I'm using them." With untracked PTO, it's up to the manager to agree. Which is a problem if the team is always in fire-fighting mode.
I get decent time off, as I work for a public university. I am staff, so no summers/ spring break/ etc off. But the amount I get us insane.
13 holidays, 4 unscheduled holidays, 20 sick leave and 15 vacation ( incrementing one a year up to 25). Oh, and 35 hour work week.
I have two young kids, so using my sick time is easy.
If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancing
All of my jobs have had separate sick days and PTO, but I've never had a job that offered more than 10 each when I signed the contract. Both my current and previous job added 5 days PTO when you hit 5 years with the company.
I get 5 sick days, but the rest of our PTO is 'untracked'. They try to sell it as unlimited, but basically it means I don't have any official footing to push back on my manager when I want to take time off.
With PTO, I would be able to say, "I have these hours, and I'm using them." With untracked PTO, it's up to the manager to agree. Which is a problem if the team is always in fire-fighting mode.
"I'm taking off this time in August whether you sign off on it or not."
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
I get 5 sick days, but the rest of our PTO is 'untracked'. They try to sell it as unlimited, but basically it means I don't have any official footing to push back on my manager when I want to take time off.
With PTO, I would be able to say, "I have these hours, and I'm using them." With untracked PTO, it's up to the manager to agree. Which is a problem if the team is always in fire-fighting mode.
Which is what my team is ALWAYS doing. I almost quit on Thursday after being in fire drill mode for two weeks.
Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
+1
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thatassemblyguyJanitor of Technical Debt.Registered Userregular
I get 5 sick days, but the rest of our PTO is 'untracked'. They try to sell it as unlimited, but basically it means I don't have any official footing to push back on my manager when I want to take time off.
With PTO, I would be able to say, "I have these hours, and I'm using them." With untracked PTO, it's up to the manager to agree. Which is a problem if the team is always in fire-fighting mode.
That sounds shady as fuck
Oh it totally is. We know this because Facebook pioneered the practice.
This is why I think, in the US, “unlimited” and “untracked” PTO or sick are ruses. If you live in a country or culture where employers and the government actually cares about the quality of life of individual employees, then fine, but in the US, any such relationship between employer and employee is more or less permanently broken. “Employment at will” means no loyalty and no trust, in either direction.
Ugh, I don’t even want to think about vacation time right now. At my last job I had worked my way up to 15 paid days off. Most jobs I’ve been applying to offer 8-9 or none at all for the first year.
I like to be able to visit the UK for at least two weeks at a time or else the cost/distance doesn’t seem worth it. But I may be looking at week-long ‘vacations’ only in which to try and fit in seeing aaalll my relatives.
I get 5 sick days, but the rest of our PTO is 'untracked'. They try to sell it as unlimited, but basically it means I don't have any official footing to push back on my manager when I want to take time off.
With PTO, I would be able to say, "I have these hours, and I'm using them." With untracked PTO, it's up to the manager to agree. Which is a problem if the team is always in fire-fighting mode.
That sounds shady as fuck
Oh it totally is. We know this because Facebook pioneered the practice.
I think it was Netflix, actually. But yeah, it also keeps them from having to pay the hours out to you when you leave.
+3
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Mojo_JojoWe are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourseRegistered Userregular
We just have annual leave, and if you're ill, you don't come in. I'm not aware of how many days you're allowed to be ill but it's never come up and I'm pretty sure it's "as much as you're ill"
My new contract actually specifies a number of annual sick days! I've never seen it before
I have 120 a year
Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
I get 5 sick days, but the rest of our PTO is 'untracked'. They try to sell it as unlimited, but basically it means I don't have any official footing to push back on my manager when I want to take time off.
With PTO, I would be able to say, "I have these hours, and I'm using them." With untracked PTO, it's up to the manager to agree. Which is a problem if the team is always in fire-fighting mode.
That sounds shady as fuck
Oh it totally is. We know this because Facebook pioneered the practice.
I think it was Netflix, actually. But yeah, it also keeps them from having to pay the hours out to you when you leave.
No, you're right, my memory is bad. FB was the most evil adopter, so I mentally attached it to them. Netflix was the big originator.
The bolded: Especially in California where they codified into law that the employee owns the accrued vacation time.
They only found out after the fact that employees would take less vacation with the new policy. As it became just one more sick/twisted psychological "one-up" game about who could take the least amount of vacation.
The usual practice here in Swedistan is that if you need to take sick leave, you have one day without pay, and then 80% salary. After a period (I think it's one week) you need a doctor's note. Which usually leads to people coming to work when they really shouldn't to not lose one day of salary.
Company I'm at said "fuck that" and gives 80% salary from day one of sickness. Feeling too sick to come to work? Stay home, dangit.
The owner of the company has a real issue paying people for time off, which we've gone back and forth on to the point of shouting at each other about basic humanity.
So I traded at 25% base pay increase for any PTO, but have total autonomy over my hours as long as my job is done. It's not the best deal, but it works for now and for me.
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RobonunIt's all fun and games until someone pisses off ChinaRegistered Userregular
As a Fed with ~12 years in I accrue 6 hours of annual leave and 4 hours of sick leave every two weeks. I can carry over a maximum of 30 AL days to the next year. I remind myself that I'm lucky to have this situation every time another POTUS tweet hits the news cycle.
Oh it's easy: instill the values that everyone's lucky to ever be graced with the opportunity to work for a living. The companies are doing us a favor just by hiring us!
godmode on
+23
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thatassemblyguyJanitor of Technical Debt.Registered Userregular
I get 5 sick days, but the rest of our PTO is 'untracked'. They try to sell it as unlimited, but basically it means I don't have any official footing to push back on my manager when I want to take time off.
With PTO, I would be able to say, "I have these hours, and I'm using them." With untracked PTO, it's up to the manager to agree. Which is a problem if the team is always in fire-fighting mode.
"I'm taking off this time in August whether you sign off on it or not."
To circle back around to this,
Manager: "... Ok."
*Time Passes*
Scenario #1:
"Sorry, TAG. Co-worker X is leading this new project. We just don't see you as fully dedicated." (Read between the lines: "Co-worker X doesn't really take any time off, especially during fire-fighting season, so we've assigned them the better opportunities")
Scenario #2:
"TAG, your peers have rated [e: you] as below average and I agree with them, so this year you're not going to receive a raise." (Read between the lines: "Everyone is pissed that you actually use the vacation policy, even though it's within reason, so fuck you you don't even get CoL.")
(These are not scenarios that have happened to me personally - just some examples that I'd expect out of the shittier management)
Oh it's easy: instill the values that everyone's lucky to ever be graced with the opportunity to work for a living. The companies are doing us a favor just by hiring us!
Classic “you need [us] more than [we] need you” abusive relationship.
The usual practice here in Swedistan is that if you need to take sick leave, you have one day without pay, and then 80% salary. After a period (I think it's one week) you need a doctor's note. Which usually leads to people coming to work when they really shouldn't to not lose one day of salary.
Company I'm at said "fuck that" and gives 80% salary from day one of sickness. Feeling too sick to come to work? Stay home, dangit.
That only the first day isn't payed seems really counterproductive. Who thought that up?
Speaking of sick days, I'm pretty sure I have an ear infection right now but I'm in the office because I just got back from a month-long Japan trip immediately followed by several days of PTO so I'd probably get a serious side-eye if I asked to go home. I'm very lucky I already had a doctor appointment scheduled for tomorrow morning at least!
I was seriously so fortunate to work with my boss for the past 9 years.
I mean, yeah, my coworker and CEO may have caused me to want to tear my hair out but my boss (and subsequently the job) was flexible in sooooo many ways and I did appreciate that.
My brain kept me awake until 3 am this morning obsessing over the interview/company.
I get 5 sick days, but the rest of our PTO is 'untracked'. They try to sell it as unlimited, but basically it means I don't have any official footing to push back on my manager when I want to take time off.
With PTO, I would be able to say, "I have these hours, and I'm using them." With untracked PTO, it's up to the manager to agree. Which is a problem if the team is always in fire-fighting mode.
"I'm taking off this time in August whether you sign off on it or not."
To circle back around to this,
Manager: "... Ok."
*Time Passes*
Scenario #1:
"Sorry, TAG. Co-worker X is leading this new project. We just don't see you as fully dedicated." (Read between the lines: "Co-worker X doesn't really take any time off, especially during fire-fighting season, so we've assigned them the better opportunities")
Scenario #2:
"TAG, your peers have rated [e: you] as below average and I agree with them, so this year you're not going to receive a raise." (Read between the lines: "Everyone is pissed that you actually use the vacation policy, even though it's within reason, so fuck you you don't even get CoL.")
(These are not scenarios that have happened to me personally - just some examples that I'd expect out of the shittier management)
Time to jump ship then.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Posts
And I was like, wow! That's amazing! I'd love that. Then I realised as I said that I realised that I was half way through my six week summer break.....
Satans..... hints.....
Basically people will bitch about it behind your back and that's it.
It is extremely difficult for a company to do something about it if you have notes from a doctor. The absolute most a company can demand is that you go to a doctor of their choice. And even that has to happen in cooperation with your health insurance.
So in NY for hourly employees you have to pick a unit to measure time by. Most places go by the 1/4th hour. What this means is that if you clock in 2 minutes late, they still need to pay for that full quarter hour. Similarly if you clock out 8 minutes late then they need to pay you for that overtime. HR here struggles with the idea that if they always clock in 2 minutes late you still have to pay them but you can also discipline them. Like legal obligation for wages are different than "You're always fucking late, stop it or we'll fire you."
I'd strongly suspect being sick one day every week would end up in that sort of job evaluation.
Satans..... hints.....
Whereas there are plenty of places in the world that you have plenty of sick days and you don't need to abuse the system or whatever, and don't need to have overbearing policies around sick leave. If you're sick, you call in and don't come in, and there are systems in place to cover for you. If you're sick for an extended period there are safety nets around that don't put that burden on the employer- you get paid most of your cheque while you recover from whatever on taxpayer money until you are better, then you come back to your job that you still have.
Obviously there will be people somewhere that abuse the system and call in sick when they aren't, but they generally don't advance and get stuck in menial jobs, and/or are let go without a good reference.
I'm sorry, (most) Americans... your system of employment laws, safety nets and the health care that is tied to all that is a bit of a mess
In the US that's true from what I remember seeing.
You'd need to widen the window on the American side a bit for folks who don't have sick days to take.
That enrages the fuck out of me
However if they do the "hey would you like to go home?" before dismissing people, then you're opting to use time instead and that's when they can get away with it. Even some red states have laws like that so double check your local laws and more importantly fight them on it when they try it next time.
It is pretty easy money and only mornings. Look forward to doing lots of reading and playing video games while getting paid.
With PTO, I would be able to say, "I have these hours, and I'm using them." With untracked PTO, it's up to the manager to agree. Which is a problem if the team is always in fire-fighting mode.
That sounds shady as fuck
13 holidays, 4 unscheduled holidays, 20 sick leave and 15 vacation ( incrementing one a year up to 25). Oh, and 35 hour work week.
I have two young kids, so using my sick time is easy.
"I'm taking off this time in August whether you sign off on it or not."
Which is what my team is ALWAYS doing. I almost quit on Thursday after being in fire drill mode for two weeks.
Oh it totally is. We know this because Facebook pioneered the practice.
I like to be able to visit the UK for at least two weeks at a time or else the cost/distance doesn’t seem worth it. But I may be looking at week-long ‘vacations’ only in which to try and fit in seeing aaalll my relatives.
I think it was Netflix, actually. But yeah, it also keeps them from having to pay the hours out to you when you leave.
My new contract actually specifies a number of annual sick days! I've never seen it before
I have 120 a year
No, you're right, my memory is bad. FB was the most evil adopter, so I mentally attached it to them. Netflix was the big originator.
The bolded: Especially in California where they codified into law that the employee owns the accrued vacation time.
They only found out after the fact that employees would take less vacation with the new policy. As it became just one more sick/twisted psychological "one-up" game about who could take the least amount of vacation.
Company I'm at said "fuck that" and gives 80% salary from day one of sickness. Feeling too sick to come to work? Stay home, dangit.
The owner of the company has a real issue paying people for time off, which we've gone back and forth on to the point of shouting at each other about basic humanity.
So I traded at 25% base pay increase for any PTO, but have total autonomy over my hours as long as my job is done. It's not the best deal, but it works for now and for me.
Also, I can be off sick for a week before producing a doctors note.
However, I am very lucky that my company advocates "smart working"
IE; if you have a nasty case of cough or cold but you could work from home, just work from home you fuck and don't make anyone ill by coming in.
To circle back around to this,
Manager: "... Ok."
*Time Passes*
Scenario #1:
"Sorry, TAG. Co-worker X is leading this new project. We just don't see you as fully dedicated." (Read between the lines: "Co-worker X doesn't really take any time off, especially during fire-fighting season, so we've assigned them the better opportunities")
Scenario #2:
"TAG, your peers have rated [e: you] as below average and I agree with them, so this year you're not going to receive a raise." (Read between the lines: "Everyone is pissed that you actually use the vacation policy, even though it's within reason, so fuck you you don't even get CoL.")
(These are not scenarios that have happened to me personally - just some examples that I'd expect out of the shittier management)
Classic “you need [us] more than [we] need you” abusive relationship.
Mine is like this, too. I’m working from home today for this basic reason.
That only the first day isn't payed seems really counterproductive. Who thought that up?
I mean, yeah, my coworker and CEO may have caused me to want to tear my hair out but my boss (and subsequently the job) was flexible in sooooo many ways and I did appreciate that.
My brain kept me awake until 3 am this morning obsessing over the interview/company.
It doesn't even change.
They've used the same password for years.
I don't get it.
But every 2-3 days "hi Bowen can you unlock my account?"
Time to jump ship then.