“With Torbjörn, the issues we’re trying to solve are that he’s a little overly defensive focused,” Goodman explains. “We need him to be more viable on offense in a non-payload situation. It doesn’t mean he needs to be equal on offense, but we need him at least to not be a troll pick.”
I'm not sure I like that? Having characters that are better on attack than defense and vice versa seems fine.
They're slowly working heroes away from just being categorized as defensive
The big issue, as I see it, is that attack characters can defend (dead enemies don't capture objectives, after all) but defenders can't attack nearly as well, at least at the manpower caps Overwatch has. So you wind up with the "Attack" half of DPS useful 100% of the time, and the "Defense" half useful 50% of the time, on certain maps. It's easier to simply make the designated defense guys play more like an attacker than to try to change the surrounding game rules enough that defensive DPS becomes meaningful.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
you know what i like best about this video? you are not a spastic player. I mean that you aren't looking all over the screen. Especially in your 1v1 vs sombra you weren't* rocking back and forth with it making me nautious. I watch a few other streamers videos and i always have to cut it short because so many people seem to enjoy spinning their camera around and i can't figure out how they can see what's going on!
Thank you! ^.^ I thought it turned out okay, but in hindsight I feel like the Widow duel kinda' brings the energy down. I just loved that I started the engagement by rewinding behind her while she was aiming at me.
"Oyeah, now we're doin' this!"
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
The trouble with situational characters is that people are gonna play them whether it's correct or not, especially in QM. Making them more versatile improves the health of the game in non-meta team situations.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Torbjorn rework coming yayyyyyy! I hope he can become one of my dps mains. I already pick him to stunning success when the team goes 4-5 dps. Basically when no one can claim that I'm the troll. He's actually quite good at that, and I still don't quite know why.
Might be because the armor packs make him a pseudo-support for the all-DPS comp?
Torbjorn rework coming yayyyyyy! I hope he can become one of my dps mains. I already pick him to stunning success when the team goes 4-5 dps. Basically when no one can claim that I'm the troll. He's actually quite good at that, and I still don't quite know why.
Might be because the armor packs make him a pseudo-support for the all-DPS comp?
Also torb's reliable turret damage makes it super easy for those DPS to finish off picks and capitalize on the attention it pulls.
I love havin' a Torb on my team.
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
Torbjorn rework coming yayyyyyy! I hope he can become one of my dps mains. I already pick him to stunning success when the team goes 4-5 dps. Basically when no one can claim that I'm the troll. He's actually quite good at that, and I still don't quite know why.
Might be because the armor packs make him a pseudo-support for the all-DPS comp?
Also torb's reliable turret damage makes it super easy for those DPS to finish off picks and capitalize on the attention it pulls.
I love havin' a Torb on my team.
Today I participated in a group called "Attack Torb". Our secondary DPS played Doomfist and I was Zarya.
Torb changes sound like more of their obsessive need to make characters more 'active' and balance things around streamers and tournaments while ignoring the other 99% of actual real players.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
But that makes it seem like it's a pistol and not a shotgun, get the lore right a duh that's a chop.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Torb changes sound like more of their obsessive need to make characters more 'active' and balance things around streamers and tournaments while ignoring the other 99% of actual real players.
This is not going to make Torb show up in tournaments unless they royally fuck up the numbers.
Torb changes sound like more of their obsessive need to make characters more 'active' and balance things around streamers and tournaments while ignoring the other 99% of actual real players.
99% of actual real players hate Torb in their game on either team.
Torb changes sound like more of their obsessive need to make characters more 'active' and balance things around streamers and tournaments while ignoring the other 99% of actual real players.
99% of actual real players hate Torb in their game on either team.
Ah Mystery Heroes. Just got done with a game where we had 5 healers for about 75% of the game on attack.
We won! Because no one..ever..died. And if they did oops rez.
Having even 1 Mercy in MH is pretty huge - just being able to say "yeah I feel we should really keep having a Rein around."
I don't understand why they won't let ult charge roll over when you switch heroes. It'd make it way more fun and curtail the way one team can get a big roll going on with ults.
Widow died with her ult ready to go! Oh noes!
They respawn as Zarya! Fuck yeahhh!
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I dunno about you guys but this graphic on the OWL stream telling me to buy shit so I can see something on the stream is a great use of my bandwidth.
Ah Mystery Heroes. Just got done with a game where we had 5 healers for about 75% of the game on attack.
We won! Because no one..ever..died. And if they did oops rez.
Having even 1 Mercy in MH is pretty huge - just being able to say "yeah I feel we should really keep having a Rein around."
I don't understand why they won't let ult charge roll over when you switch heroes. It'd make it way more fun and curtail the way one team can get a big roll going on with ults.
Widow died with her ult ready to go! Oh noes!
They respawn as Zarya! Fuck yeahhh!
And if it's really such a problem, roll over just the actual Ult points, such that if you filled up a low-requirement Ult and switched to a character with a high-requirement Ult, you'd just be part of the way there.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Uuuuugh, dumb algorithm picking big plays.
On attack on King's Row, pushing the cart to the final point as Sym and the enemy team is putting up a solid defense. I portal up high on the right, wait for the cooldown, then portal down behind their defense and pop my ult in front of a couple of turrets. The entire enemy team proceeds to back away from my team's push and get annihilated one at a time with beams drilling into their back, every time turning around to fight only to have their shots bounce off the barrier. When my team comes around the corner, it's just me and a bunch of dead guys and they push the cart to the point unopposed for the win.
What gets PotG? Hanzo ult with Zarya ult. Yawntastic.
On attack on King's Row, pushing the cart to the final point as Sym and the enemy team is putting up a solid defense. I portal up high on the right, wait for the cooldown, then portal down behind their defense and pop my ult in front of a couple of turrets. The entire enemy team proceeds to back away from my team's push and get annihilated one at a time with beams drilling into their back, every time turning around to fight only to have their shots bounce off the barrier. When my team comes around the corner, it's just me and a bunch of dead guys and they push the cart to the point unopposed for the win.
What gets PotG? Hanzo ult with Zarya ult. Yawntastic.
Your story does not move me! How long did it take you to rack up this mountain of corpses? T'was the kill septuple? The PotG has like 12 seconds to cram in the kills, and I too have been burned by the sweet thrill of sauntering through a team, only to watch PotG go to a Junk's fine triple with the tire. But let me terrify you, for a moment.
Once, I was playin' Reaper. Final point defense, I've got my ult, and they've got a Bastion, Rein, Mercy, the whole works. I teleport up to the high ground left from spawn and just wait as they all move up to the payload together as the clock ticks down into OT, fling myself over the payload, ult, and get a quintuple. I emote, and we win the game.
PotG was a Genji getting a double as the payload hit the 2nd point. And not like a really sweet double or three minor-damage elims and then a double. Just two kills, while I had solo wiped that team off the cart in OT.
(Points an old Jacob Marley finger at you, eyes wide in holy terror!)
It could happen to youuuuu!
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
Torb changes sound like more of their obsessive need to make characters more 'active' and balance things around streamers and tournaments while ignoring the other 99% of actual real players.
Hardly anybody really likes Torb, and on offense he's a literal troll pick. He needs the help.
I had an incredible Zen defense on Eichenwald. We have a Mercy, D.Va and (eventually, 30 seconds after the match starts) a Rein, and I get 'em so spooked that they won't poke out of shields if they see me. Soldier ults from the high ground on the defender's side of the choke, I immediately Trans, keep everyone cool and then zip through the building to discord and land the killing blow on him. It was lovely.
I go Zen on Route 66 attack, everyone else goes support so I'm like "well I'm going to be the lucky DPS who benefits from this," and switch to Tracer. The team almost-immediately reassembles itself into a decent comp, and I go 14 and 2. I'm sure this isn't true, but it felt like every time a duel presented itself I just immediately won it and moved on to the next, freaking the reds out more and more with each encounter.
That was an awesome game >.<
Edit: 12 and 0 on Horizon attack with a 5-stack, a humble little potg and a ton of endorsements. Then 20 and 5 on defense (lost), a second humble little potg and another sportsmanship. I'm having awesome games tonight!
Chance on
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Torb changes sound like more of their obsessive need to make characters more 'active' and balance things around streamers and tournaments while ignoring the other 99% of actual real players.
Hardly anybody really likes Torb, and on offense he's a literal troll pick. He needs the help.
Given what's been done with Sym, Torb can absolutely be remade into something that is far more interesting and useful now that the game design is breaking away from enabling chokepoint defenses that end in stalemate. Torb is still largely about building a turret in a protected spot and then goofing around in between building new turrets, which is terribly boring and simple compared to Sym's redesign into something that allows for some really clever and interesting gameplay.
Torb changes sound like more of their obsessive need to make characters more 'active' and balance things around streamers and tournaments while ignoring the other 99% of actual real players.
Hardly anybody really likes Torb, and on offense he's a literal troll pick. He needs the help.
Given what's been done with Sym, Torb can absolutely be remade into something that is far more interesting and useful now that the game design is breaking away from enabling chokepoint defenses that end in stalemate. Torb is still largely about building a turret in a protected spot and then goofing around in between building new turrets, which is terribly boring and simple compared to Sym's redesign into something that allows for some really clever and interesting gameplay.
I had a weird thought, earlier. Torb using his turret like a Mei wall.
I pictured something a little thinner than Rein's hitbox, but just as tall, that Torb or an ally can use as cover to peek and shoot behind - with a LvL2 turret embedded in a face on it. Like a golem.
For an ult, the golem would split into two at the center, spread a half-Rein-shield apart, suspend a 1000 HP shield between them and do normal Molten Core damage because that's where my imagination stalled.
I batted this thought away, as it is an evil thing.
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
torb ult should just be popping two more turrets out of the one turret, rather then making the one turret more powerful, just multiply the number of turrets he can place (for a limited time)
edit* and i'm all in favor of the turret auto upgrading and get rid of the stupid hammering stuff. it was lame in tf2, it's lame here.
torb ult should just be popping two more turrets out of the one turret, rather then making the one turret more powerful, just multiply the number of turrets he can place (for a limited time)
As a once-Mercy-main I actually really like that idea 'cause it would be the Valkyrie of Torb ults.
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
I'm not going to Department of Bad Ideas this one, but what about a turret designed like this:
- The Turret takes slightly longer to build than it does today.
- The Turret has a large amount of HP, most of it Armor. Somewhere in the 600-800 range.
- The Turret has the effective power of a level 2, or maybe even Molten Core if we're feeling feisty.
- Because Torbjorn's machines never work entirely right, the Turret loses HP over time on a geometric curve.
- The cooldown is shorter (6 seconds), but only begins when the turret is actually destroyed.
The idea is that instead of encouraging Torbjorn to build a turret somewhere obscure and wait for the enemies to walk into it, the Turret becomes a sort of disposable point defense. It's durable enough to be deployed under live fire, and does enough damage to be a threat. However, it can't be used to lock down an area indefinitely, since the turret will eventually self-destruct, though Torbjorn can, at his discretion, extend the Turret's lifespan with repairs.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
One thing that they should do is to remove that hammer.
Too many Torbs keep banging their hot wi... turret, when they should be shooting the enemy in the face.
Yeah, so often when playing Torb I'm in two minds about whether the fight needs a firing Torb now or an upgraded Turret sooner. And even if I make the right choice, it feels bad that that dilemma even exists.
I mean, most of us understand that Torb the hero is this neat bargain-bin hybrid of McCree's gun and Reaper's gun, plus armour packs to help teammates and/or win fights that no 200HP Torb should. That's cool. But you spend half of any teamfight where you're on the backfoot (ie, without turret) being none of those things. And a hero that doesn't perform well on the backfoot is kinda junk: don't we all pick heroes and use abilities to increase our odds of winning teamfights?
I basically use Torb for one thing right now: defense at Hollywood. Most people put the turret on the elevator or on the high ledge; I think that’s dumb and easily countered. I put the turret in the closed-off room facing the point/elevator. What this does is force the team to commit when taking the point to one side or get cut down in a pincer attack. Either shield/attack the turret, in which case their backside is exposed to my team ripping them to shreds from the other side, or commit to fighting my team while the turret goes to town on their flank. If I have ult it goes even more poorly for them.
But then, I play Torb as a divided hero. I never stick with my turret. I let it do its thing while I armor everybody up and fire potshots to charge my ult. If I kill anyone with my gun it’s just gravy.
I'd like to see Torb lose the ability to repair his turret. Just completely kill the TF2 Engie turtling playstyle which has never been fun. Instead it can self-repair when out of combat, and tweak the numbers however you need to.
Man, Symmetra's beam maybe needs a buff. I've started using the bubbles almost exclusively, and I don't miss the beam at all. That is perhaps indicative of a balance issue.
Regardless, Symmetra remains a lot of fun to play. Unexpected sentries are the best kind of sentries.
Posts
The big issue, as I see it, is that attack characters can defend (dead enemies don't capture objectives, after all) but defenders can't attack nearly as well, at least at the manpower caps Overwatch has. So you wind up with the "Attack" half of DPS useful 100% of the time, and the "Defense" half useful 50% of the time, on certain maps. It's easier to simply make the designated defense guys play more like an attacker than to try to change the surrounding game rules enough that defensive DPS becomes meaningful.
you know what i like best about this video? you are not a spastic player. I mean that you aren't looking all over the screen. Especially in your 1v1 vs sombra you weren't* rocking back and forth with it making me nautious. I watch a few other streamers videos and i always have to cut it short because so many people seem to enjoy spinning their camera around and i can't figure out how they can see what's going on!
*edited were to weren't
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
"Oyeah, now we're doin' this!"
Might be because the armor packs make him a pseudo-support for the all-DPS comp?
Also torb's reliable turret damage makes it super easy for those DPS to finish off picks and capitalize on the attention it pulls.
I love havin' a Torb on my team.
Today I participated in a group called "Attack Torb". Our secondary DPS played Doomfist and I was Zarya.
We crushed everybody!
This is not going to make Torb show up in tournaments unless they royally fuck up the numbers.
Woohoo finally part of the 1%!!!!!
We won! Because no one..ever..died. And if they did oops rez.
Having even 1 Mercy in MH is pretty huge - just being able to say "yeah I feel we should really keep having a Rein around."
I don't understand why they won't let ult charge roll over when you switch heroes. It'd make it way more fun and curtail the way one team can get a big roll going on with ults.
Widow died with her ult ready to go! Oh noes!
They respawn as Zarya! Fuck yeahhh!
And if it's really such a problem, roll over just the actual Ult points, such that if you filled up a low-requirement Ult and switched to a character with a high-requirement Ult, you'd just be part of the way there.
- a horrible, horrible Genji PotG (and my second ever with him)
- a shitty Torb PotG that thrilled me because the turret wasn't involved
- a decent D.Va PotG
- a Pharah PotG I enjoy from every angle,
andOn attack on King's Row, pushing the cart to the final point as Sym and the enemy team is putting up a solid defense. I portal up high on the right, wait for the cooldown, then portal down behind their defense and pop my ult in front of a couple of turrets. The entire enemy team proceeds to back away from my team's push and get annihilated one at a time with beams drilling into their back, every time turning around to fight only to have their shots bounce off the barrier. When my team comes around the corner, it's just me and a bunch of dead guys and they push the cart to the point unopposed for the win.
What gets PotG? Hanzo ult with Zarya ult. Yawntastic.
Your story does not move me! How long did it take you to rack up this mountain of corpses? T'was the kill septuple? The PotG has like 12 seconds to cram in the kills, and I too have been burned by the sweet thrill of sauntering through a team, only to watch PotG go to a Junk's fine triple with the tire. But let me terrify you, for a moment.
Once, I was playin' Reaper. Final point defense, I've got my ult, and they've got a Bastion, Rein, Mercy, the whole works. I teleport up to the high ground left from spawn and just wait as they all move up to the payload together as the clock ticks down into OT, fling myself over the payload, ult, and get a quintuple. I emote, and we win the game.
PotG was a Genji getting a double as the payload hit the 2nd point. And not like a really sweet double or three minor-damage elims and then a double. Just two kills, while I had solo wiped that team off the cart in OT.
(Points an old Jacob Marley finger at you, eyes wide in holy terror!)
It could happen to youuuuu!
Thanks Jeff
Hardly anybody really likes Torb, and on offense he's a literal troll pick. He needs the help.
Well in fairness the Genji's was fresh, crisp and unexpected to the point of shock. Poor plating and atmosphere. 2 stars.
Locally-sourced, ethically-produced
I go Zen on Route 66 attack, everyone else goes support so I'm like "well I'm going to be the lucky DPS who benefits from this," and switch to Tracer. The team almost-immediately reassembles itself into a decent comp, and I go 14 and 2. I'm sure this isn't true, but it felt like every time a duel presented itself I just immediately won it and moved on to the next, freaking the reds out more and more with each encounter.
That was an awesome game >.<
Edit: 12 and 0 on Horizon attack with a 5-stack, a humble little potg and a ton of endorsements. Then 20 and 5 on defense (lost), a second humble little potg and another sportsmanship. I'm having awesome games tonight!
Given what's been done with Sym, Torb can absolutely be remade into something that is far more interesting and useful now that the game design is breaking away from enabling chokepoint defenses that end in stalemate. Torb is still largely about building a turret in a protected spot and then goofing around in between building new turrets, which is terribly boring and simple compared to Sym's redesign into something that allows for some really clever and interesting gameplay.
I had a weird thought, earlier. Torb using his turret like a Mei wall.
I pictured something a little thinner than Rein's hitbox, but just as tall, that Torb or an ally can use as cover to peek and shoot behind - with a LvL2 turret embedded in a face on it. Like a golem.
For an ult, the golem would split into two at the center, spread a half-Rein-shield apart, suspend a 1000 HP shield between them and do normal Molten Core damage because that's where my imagination stalled.
I batted this thought away, as it is an evil thing.
edit* and i'm all in favor of the turret auto upgrading and get rid of the stupid hammering stuff. it was lame in tf2, it's lame here.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
As a once-Mercy-main I actually really like that idea 'cause it would be the Valkyrie of Torb ults.
- The Turret takes slightly longer to build than it does today.
- The Turret has a large amount of HP, most of it Armor. Somewhere in the 600-800 range.
- The Turret has the effective power of a level 2, or maybe even Molten Core if we're feeling feisty.
- Because Torbjorn's machines never work entirely right, the Turret loses HP over time on a geometric curve.
- The cooldown is shorter (6 seconds), but only begins when the turret is actually destroyed.
The idea is that instead of encouraging Torbjorn to build a turret somewhere obscure and wait for the enemies to walk into it, the Turret becomes a sort of disposable point defense. It's durable enough to be deployed under live fire, and does enough damage to be a threat. However, it can't be used to lock down an area indefinitely, since the turret will eventually self-destruct, though Torbjorn can, at his discretion, extend the Turret's lifespan with repairs.
Too many Torbs keep banging their hot wi... turret, when they should be shooting the enemy in the face.
Yeah, so often when playing Torb I'm in two minds about whether the fight needs a firing Torb now or an upgraded Turret sooner. And even if I make the right choice, it feels bad that that dilemma even exists.
I mean, most of us understand that Torb the hero is this neat bargain-bin hybrid of McCree's gun and Reaper's gun, plus armour packs to help teammates and/or win fights that no 200HP Torb should. That's cool. But you spend half of any teamfight where you're on the backfoot (ie, without turret) being none of those things. And a hero that doesn't perform well on the backfoot is kinda junk: don't we all pick heroes and use abilities to increase our odds of winning teamfights?
hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
But then, I play Torb as a divided hero. I never stick with my turret. I let it do its thing while I armor everybody up and fire potshots to charge my ult. If I kill anyone with my gun it’s just gravy.
Regardless, Symmetra remains a lot of fun to play. Unexpected sentries are the best kind of sentries.