Prejudging people for playing off-meta characters really gets me mad.
I'm super-flex player with 10+ hours playtime with 23/27 of the characters. (Mei, Genji, Brigitta and Sombra have less)
The amount of grief and abuse I get for playing Doomfist or Hanzo is staggering. People blame me for throwing, threaten to report if I don't change or hurl some expletives and abuse at me.
Oh mate I am right there with you. I have a whole anti-Pharah anti-"Doomfist-swap" rant curled inside my brainbox waiting to get out and I don't want to lay the full force of my nerdrage on you guys. But just to give a small taster and maybe open some minds at the same time:
1) Pharah is a frustrating, unfun hero to see on the enemy team when you're lucky enough to snatch dps because suddenly the wonderful range of fun and viable dps heroes on the roster drops from over a dozen to half of that at best.
2) That said, there are plenty of other responses to Pharah than just changing your dps. Like focusing the ground team faster. Playing from the indoors region of the map, hurriedly sprinting between those regions as required, etc.
3) Some of these responses include other members of the team taking responsibility for changing hero as well. You know what healer soft counters Pharah? Lucio. Because he speeds your team into a decisive ground engagement that a Pharah doesn't want to see below her. Another healer? Zen, for more obvious reasons. But no one ever says "pick Lucio/Zen guys because they have a Pharah!" No, it's the job of the dps, always.
4) In particular, if you think that Pharah is a hard counter to Doomfist then you haven't played enough Doomfist or Pharah to tell me when I need to swap. I'll tell you when she's winning the match-up and I'll swap. But a Pharah's mere existence doesn't automatically mean that we need double hitscan guys. In fact, I've lost games precisely because I and my team panic-picked a double hitscan lineup. Just the other night I actually secured our further progress on Attack Eichenwalde against a defensive Pharah lineup by switching off Soldier and onto Reaper. The damage was done though, and we lost in second stage because I'd taken too long to realise my mistake. Team comp is complicated guys, and being able to kill Pharah is not the same as countering her or winning the match that's in front of you.
Pharah is an easy kill with Sym half the time. The rest of the time I just dodge her until she gets frustrated and lets someone else shoot her.
This is the other thing. The best player in my group of friends (mid Diamond for what it' worth) is basically a Symm main these days, and in his opinion at least nuSymm's matchup v Pharah is pretty favourable. I can't say myself though.
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
As a McCree main it kills me to be playing another class of hero and no one in our team is taking on the Pharah. She has a built in advantage on console that I wish Blizzard would address (like just 90% of her PC damage or something) due to the vertical nature and controller sticks, but man I don't want to be the Bridget or Lucio and having to switch to another DPS on the team because no one will mess with her and the only healing is Loser 76. Damn yo all you fake Hamzo bandwagoners just rapid fire in the air to at least keep her honest.
Pharah is an easy kill with Sym half the time. The rest of the time I just dodge her until she gets frustrated and lets someone else shoot her.
This is the other thing. The best player in my group of friends (mid Diamond for what it' worth) is basically a Symm main these days, and in his opinion at least nuSymm's matchup v Pharah is pretty favourable. I can't say myself though.
It's not favorable but she does a lot better now.
Also the other 5 of you should be countering as well.
Throw turrets up high, fire beach balls at her. Run and hide inside every time she shoots at you.
You either get lucky and kill her or she spends all her energy taking out your turrets and trying to get to you, getting killed by someone else or running into you inside. And inside is where she's an easy kill.
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miscellaneousinsanitygrass grows, birds fly, sun shines,and brother, i hurt peopleRegistered Userregular
sym v pharah is a lot like pharah v pharah now, honestly
sym v pharah is a lot like pharah v pharah now, honestly
Except the Pharah has a huge advantage in that she can hit Sym with splash damage, but Sym can’t do the same to her.
what i mean is shooting at a pharah as symmetra is a lot like shooting at a pharah as a pharah
you'll want to try to predict where she's going to be with your orbs/target her when she's floating near walls and stuff so you can hit her with your splash damage
The orbs can’t splash when there's nothing for them to hit. If the Pharah's playing close to the ground most of the time, then the person should be on Junkrat. If she's regularly getting hit by enough splash damage on walls to die, then the player's bad.
As for the shields regenerating, they’ll only regenerate if Sym isn’t getting hit. Guess what splash damage from rockets is really good at.
The orbs can’t splash when there's nothing for them to hit. If the Pharah's playing close to the ground most of the time, then the person should be on Junkrat. If she's regularly getting hit by enough splash damage on walls to die, then the player's bad.
As for the shields regenerating, they’ll only regenerate if Sym isn’t getting hit. Guess what splash damage from rockets is really good at.
My rule of thumb is that if the map has fights where Pharah is in airspace that turrets can reach, Pharah is in airspace that makes her easy to hit with a beach ball. That beach ball can be a major, major threat to Pharah from a very long distance and if a Pharah getting hit by a turret (which slows her down) also gets hit by a beach ball, that's usually a kill.
Even if the Pharah is decent at dodging, Sym can put out enough shots that Pharah has to duck her head down or else she will take major damage, which takes away Pharah's big advantage. A Pharmercy is even at risk, as Mercy glides slowly between boosts and is reliant on Pharah's flight to gain altitude. Hitting a flying Pharah with beach balls at mid-long range is doable, but hitting a gliding Mercy isn't much challenge with some practice.
There's a handful of spots I would say a Pharah wins out against Sym, but those are all places with incredibly high ceilings and few or no high walls to attach turrets to. For everywhere else (and people would be surprised at just how many places have spots where Sym turrets can reach a Pharah), a Pharah trying to make progress against a determined, clever Sym is going to be in major, major trouble without her team knocking out turrets for her.
People picking off meta characters isn't the issue
People refusing to switch of them when its obviously not working is
It's like ok dude you picked Doomfist thats great
maybe think about switch switching the 14th time you dive and get instakilled
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I don't even know what the current meta is, I just know that watching a Hanzo bounce arrows off multiple shields all match or Doomfist getting squashed every time he jumps on somebody is not in any possible way something that can be considered useful. I've seen people do great work with both of those characters, the problem is the dumbasses who think their preferred character can work in every situation.
Make the smart picks for the situation. If you aren't good at a needed character in the role you're playing, then you shouldn't be playing that role. And if you aren't solid with at least two of the three roles, you probably shouldn't even be in Comp. I don't really give a shit if you're only good with Character X, you aren't always going to get that character so learn the other characters.
That's bit of a "It's don't want be a racist, but...." sentence structure there.
99% of OW are incapable of judging how other 11 players are doing, while playing the game. Percentage improves a bit if you review a recorded video, but it is still beyond the majority of player base.
That Doomfist player is probably going "WTF is that Nexuscrawler doing? At least I..."
I don't even know what the current meta is, I just know that watching a Hanzo bounce arrows off multiple shields all match or Doomfist getting squashed every time he jumps on somebody is not in any possible way something that can be considered useful. I've seen people do great work with both of those characters, the problem is the dumbasses who think their preferred character can work in every situation.
Actually Hanzo focusing shields is the correct strategy. He just needs others to focus the shields too, so he can storm arrow their softies.
Yea, I don't get the complaint about Hanzo versus shields. He fairs fine against them, as well as most of the other non-shield ignoring characters against them.
That's bit of a "It's don't want be a racist, but...." sentence structure there.
99% of OW are incapable of judging how other 11 players are doing, while playing the game. Percentage improves a bit if you review a recorded video, but it is still beyond the majority of player base.
That Doomfist player is probably going "WTF is that Nexuscrawler doing? At least I..."
For me it usually means I'm not diving into with moria to save his sorry ass when he jumps into a group of 5 enemies
Yea, I don't get the complaint about Hanzo versus shields. He fairs fine against them, as well as most of the other non-shield ignoring characters against them.
Better than Widow. Doesn't she only do like 80 if it's not a crit? Hanzo's 120.
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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MrVyngaardLive From New EtoileStraight Outta SosariaRegistered Userregular
After trying out Wrecking Ball on PTR, I can't wait until he's out on Live.
It's the most glorious fusion of Bionic Commando, Shogo MAD, and Marble Madness in one Hero.
"now I've got this mental image of caucuses as cafeteria tables in prison, and new congressmen having to beat someone up on inauguration day." - Raiden333
I'm surprised we're still in the "instant lock hanzo and widow even when on attack" reality.
2 snipers is practically meta atm.
It still makes me a sadhardt.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
Worst thing is I've found the Hamzo/Widow instalocks are the most stubborn players on the team who won't adapt to the situation. You can't Widow, I see your lack of kills in the feed, perhaps to be tryink McCree or Mei secondary fire, comrade?
Torbjorn rework coming yayyyyyy! I hope he can become one of my dps mains. I already pick him to stunning success when the team goes 4-5 dps. Basically when no one can claim that I'm the troll. He's actually quite good at that, and I still don't quite know why.
People picking off meta characters isn't the issue
People refusing to switch of them when its obviously not working is
It's like ok dude you picked Doomfist thats great
maybe think about switch switching the 14th time you dive and get instakilled
The only problem I have with this logic is...have you known every time taht Hanzo/old-Tracer/old-Soldier/Junkrat wasn't working? Did you say it? Do you say it as often as when non-meta heroes aren't working? And if the off-meta pick was only kinda not working, would you know how to enable it and push it over the top, or would your immediate reaction be to demand the switch?
Everyone has an opinion about when off meta heroes 'aren't working' but they're curiously silent about how they can work - or when more meta picks aren't working either. And IMO meta heroes are picked WAYYYY more than they work in the map and comp in which they've been picked. But they get more of a pass because no one really thinks about it.
As an example, like I said, the best player in our group is a Symm main, old and new, and so I've spent a lot of time ruminating on how to make Symm into a monster at Glod/Plat rank. It's very doable if you and the Symm player both get how and why the hero works. I thought Symm was a troll pick too, but being forced to make her work so as to not piss off a friend has convinced me that it was my own blinkered opinions that was failing (good) Symms. Maybe at higher ranks this changes but I haven't found trouble yet.
That said, after playing with my friend I also know a lot better what makes a good Symm and a bad one. :P
“With Torbjörn, the issues we’re trying to solve are that he’s a little overly defensive focused,” Goodman explains. “We need him to be more viable on offense in a non-payload situation. It doesn’t mean he needs to be equal on offense, but we need him at least to not be a troll pick.”
I'm not sure I like that? Having characters that are better on attack than defense and vice versa seems fine.
“With Torbjörn, the issues we’re trying to solve are that he’s a little overly defensive focused,” Goodman explains. “We need him to be more viable on offense in a non-payload situation. It doesn’t mean he needs to be equal on offense, but we need him at least to not be a troll pick.”
I'm not sure I like that? Having characters that are better on attack than defense and vice versa seems fine.
They're slowly working heroes away from just being categorized as defensive
“With Torbjörn, the issues we’re trying to solve are that he’s a little overly defensive focused,” Goodman explains. “We need him to be more viable on offense in a non-payload situation. It doesn’t mean he needs to be equal on offense, but we need him at least to not be a troll pick.”
I'm not sure I like that? Having characters that are better on attack than defense and vice versa seems fine.
I think the last sentence is what he's really saying: they just want Torb to be acceptable on attack. He'll (probably? maybe?) still be stronger on defense just because of turret's very nature.
“With Torbjörn, the issues we’re trying to solve are that he’s a little overly defensive focused,” Goodman explains. “We need him to be more viable on offense in a non-payload situation. It doesn’t mean he needs to be equal on offense, but we need him at least to not be a troll pick.”
I'm not sure I like that? Having characters that are better on attack than defense and vice versa seems fine.
I think the last sentence is what he's really saying: they just want Torb to be acceptable on attack. He'll (probably? maybe?) still be stronger on defense just because of turret's very nature.
Yeah I mean he specifically said he doesn't want them to be equal, just to have at least some meaningful value on attack.
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Oh mate I am right there with you. I have a whole anti-Pharah anti-"Doomfist-swap" rant curled inside my brainbox waiting to get out and I don't want to lay the full force of my nerdrage on you guys. But just to give a small taster and maybe open some minds at the same time:
1) Pharah is a frustrating, unfun hero to see on the enemy team when you're lucky enough to snatch dps because suddenly the wonderful range of fun and viable dps heroes on the roster drops from over a dozen to half of that at best.
2) That said, there are plenty of other responses to Pharah than just changing your dps. Like focusing the ground team faster. Playing from the indoors region of the map, hurriedly sprinting between those regions as required, etc.
3) Some of these responses include other members of the team taking responsibility for changing hero as well. You know what healer soft counters Pharah? Lucio. Because he speeds your team into a decisive ground engagement that a Pharah doesn't want to see below her. Another healer? Zen, for more obvious reasons. But no one ever says "pick Lucio/Zen guys because they have a Pharah!" No, it's the job of the dps, always.
4) In particular, if you think that Pharah is a hard counter to Doomfist then you haven't played enough Doomfist or Pharah to tell me when I need to swap. I'll tell you when she's winning the match-up and I'll swap. But a Pharah's mere existence doesn't automatically mean that we need double hitscan guys. In fact, I've lost games precisely because I and my team panic-picked a double hitscan lineup. Just the other night I actually secured our further progress on Attack Eichenwalde against a defensive Pharah lineup by switching off Soldier and onto Reaper. The damage was done though, and we lost in second stage because I'd taken too long to realise my mistake. Team comp is complicated guys, and being able to kill Pharah is not the same as countering her or winning the match that's in front of you.
hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
This is the other thing. The best player in my group of friends (mid Diamond for what it' worth) is basically a Symm main these days, and in his opinion at least nuSymm's matchup v Pharah is pretty favourable. I can't say myself though.
hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
It's not favorable but she does a lot better now.
Also the other 5 of you should be countering as well.
You either get lucky and kill her or she spends all her energy taking out your turrets and trying to get to you, getting killed by someone else or running into you inside. And inside is where she's an easy kill.
Sigh.
Except the Pharah has a huge advantage in that she can hit Sym with splash damage, but Sym can’t do the same to her.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
Sym regenerates, Pharah doesn't.
what i mean is shooting at a pharah as symmetra is a lot like shooting at a pharah as a pharah
you'll want to try to predict where she's going to be with your orbs/target her when she's floating near walls and stuff so you can hit her with your splash damage
The orbs can’t splash when there's nothing for them to hit. If the Pharah's playing close to the ground most of the time, then the person should be on Junkrat. If she's regularly getting hit by enough splash damage on walls to die, then the player's bad.
As for the shields regenerating, they’ll only regenerate if Sym isn’t getting hit. Guess what splash damage from rockets is really good at.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
My rule of thumb is that if the map has fights where Pharah is in airspace that turrets can reach, Pharah is in airspace that makes her easy to hit with a beach ball. That beach ball can be a major, major threat to Pharah from a very long distance and if a Pharah getting hit by a turret (which slows her down) also gets hit by a beach ball, that's usually a kill.
Even if the Pharah is decent at dodging, Sym can put out enough shots that Pharah has to duck her head down or else she will take major damage, which takes away Pharah's big advantage. A Pharmercy is even at risk, as Mercy glides slowly between boosts and is reliant on Pharah's flight to gain altitude. Hitting a flying Pharah with beach balls at mid-long range is doable, but hitting a gliding Mercy isn't much challenge with some practice.
There's a handful of spots I would say a Pharah wins out against Sym, but those are all places with incredibly high ceilings and few or no high walls to attach turrets to. For everywhere else (and people would be surprised at just how many places have spots where Sym turrets can reach a Pharah), a Pharah trying to make progress against a determined, clever Sym is going to be in major, major trouble without her team knocking out turrets for her.
Time I was on the objective: 7 minutes.
...can't say I wasn't trying I guess?
People refusing to switch of them when its obviously not working is
It's like ok dude you picked Doomfist thats great
maybe think about switch switching the 14th time you dive and get instakilled
Make the smart picks for the situation. If you aren't good at a needed character in the role you're playing, then you shouldn't be playing that role. And if you aren't solid with at least two of the three roles, you probably shouldn't even be in Comp. I don't really give a shit if you're only good with Character X, you aren't always going to get that character so learn the other characters.
99% of OW are incapable of judging how other 11 players are doing, while playing the game. Percentage improves a bit if you review a recorded video, but it is still beyond the majority of player base.
That Doomfist player is probably going "WTF is that Nexuscrawler doing? At least I..."
Actually Hanzo focusing shields is the correct strategy. He just needs others to focus the shields too, so he can storm arrow their softies.
For me it usually means I'm not diving into with moria to save his sorry ass when he jumps into a group of 5 enemies
Better than Widow. Doesn't she only do like 80 if it's not a crit? Hanzo's 120.
It's the most glorious fusion of Bionic Commando, Shogo MAD, and Marble Madness in one Hero.
https://www.vg247.com/2018/07/20/overwatch-torbjorn-rework/
2 snipers is practically meta atm.
It still makes me a sadhardt.
The only problem I have with this logic is...have you known every time taht Hanzo/old-Tracer/old-Soldier/Junkrat wasn't working? Did you say it? Do you say it as often as when non-meta heroes aren't working? And if the off-meta pick was only kinda not working, would you know how to enable it and push it over the top, or would your immediate reaction be to demand the switch?
Everyone has an opinion about when off meta heroes 'aren't working' but they're curiously silent about how they can work - or when more meta picks aren't working either. And IMO meta heroes are picked WAYYYY more than they work in the map and comp in which they've been picked. But they get more of a pass because no one really thinks about it.
As an example, like I said, the best player in our group is a Symm main, old and new, and so I've spent a lot of time ruminating on how to make Symm into a monster at Glod/Plat rank. It's very doable if you and the Symm player both get how and why the hero works. I thought Symm was a troll pick too, but being forced to make her work so as to not piss off a friend has convinced me that it was my own blinkered opinions that was failing (good) Symms. Maybe at higher ranks this changes but I haven't found trouble yet.
That said, after playing with my friend I also know a lot better what makes a good Symm and a bad one. :P
hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
I'm not sure I like that? Having characters that are better on attack than defense and vice versa seems fine.
They're slowly working heroes away from just being categorized as defensive
A good Widow, yeah
I don’t even need them to hit headshots all the time, I just need them to hit consistently
If I see the trails wildly shooting through the air and missing everything except the walls, I politely ask them to switch
I think the last sentence is what he's really saying: they just want Torb to be acceptable on attack. He'll (probably? maybe?) still be stronger on defense just because of turret's very nature.
hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
Yeah I mean he specifically said he doesn't want them to be equal, just to have at least some meaningful value on attack.
The first hero that is a completely different hero depending on the map and which side he’s on
Let Torb Exosuit