Y'know I chose Stormheim as my first zone in Legion and I'm really regretting it. This place is fucking hard to navigate. A lot of the pathways I didn't know existed until I was looking across the bay or was at the bottom when I could've gone down from the top or vice-versa. Yes I have the grappling hook thing but that's not the point and it doesn't always help. woof.
Also, wut, why is the reward for this scenario an ilvl 180 weapon?
that's the starting line for gear in BFA I guess, the pre-patch event world quest gear is higher than that because it's a special event.
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EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
Battle for Lordaeron is like the Broken Shore V1 scenario. It's for players starting BFA content and you open right into it for insta-leveled characters.
Most of the gear in the first zones will be closer to 180 than the 210 we are picking up, I imagine.
I liked Stormheim. One of my favorite zones in general.
It gets easier when you realize there is, 100%, a way up every cliff in every area (with both walking and grappling hook).
It's just a matter of finding them. And in finding them you find treasure almost always.
Legion treasure chests aren't nearly as valuable as they used to be, now that AP is no longer a thing. Although you'll still get some gold and order resources, usually.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
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EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
I liked Stormheim. One of my favorite zones in general.
It gets easier when you realize there is, 100%, a way up every cliff in every area (with both walking and grappling hook).
It's just a matter of finding them. And in finding them you find treasure almost always.
Legion treasure chests aren't nearly as valuable as they used to be, now that AP is no longer a thing. Although you'll still get some gold and order resources, usually.
At this point the conclusion can only lead to a few places:
Option One: No Thrall, You Are the Baddies
The Horde becomes proper villains and we get a clear good/evil faction split. Sylvanas treats the Horde well, and they are quick to disregard the "old guard" that sputters endlessly about honor. Saurfang, Thrall, et al kinda fuck off and act as loose allies to the Alliance whereas leaders like Lor'themar finally get some limelight as glorious mustache-twirling assholes. Their laughable attempts at moral ambiguity over, Blizzard can allow the Alliance to be more aggressive because, you know, fuck Sylvanas and her new evil Horde. Writing will improve significantly because Blizzard can stay the hell away from that whole "nuance" thing they suck at.
The downside is that this is super boring. Oh, the faction of monsters turned out to be monsters? Never saw that coming. But more importantly, a lot of people will not be down with suddenly being the bad guys after decades of being the faction of misunderstood heroes. Having overarching villains (Legion, Void Lords, etc.) may be harder when one faction is just as likely to join them, but this probably won't happen since most of the Big Baddies in WoW have a firm policy of "Kill Everyone" that even an evil Horde would oppose.
Option Two: Time is a Flat Circle
The Horde rejects Sylvanas and eventually rebels against her. I have nothing positive to say about this.
But I have LOTS of negative. First, we did this shit with Garrosh, so it's already lazy writing. Two, it kneecaps the central theme of BFA by having attention drawn back to a Horde civil war. I mean...look at this: we're all talking about the HORDE and don't give a fuck about any war with the Alliance. Which brings me to my next point: it puts the Alliance on the backburner. Again. Not only does the Horde have a more dynamic and interesting story, but it makes the Alliance look REAL dumb if they overthrow Sylvanas and DON'T make good on Varian's threat to Vol'jin. This is just lazy, terrible writing, but fully what I expected from a Faction War Expansion.
Option Three: I Want Off Mr. Facton's Wild Ride
Sylvanas is defeated, but Anduinn actually makes good on his threat. The Horde is no more. Everyone is incorporated into the Alliance, which may have a Dramatic Rename for the occasion. This ends the outdated and bad faction split, and gives us a clear winner to BFA. It also lets the Alliance have a solid victory for once, hooray!
Obviously this would piss off a few people, and there's a lot of logistics to deal with here, but that's about it. You can bullshit up some opt-in factions for PvP, and it would also be a good excuse to wipe the slate clean and have an abbreviated leveling process. But it would be a lot of work, make no mistake.
Option Four: The Butler Did It
Sylvanas was corrupted by the Void Lords or something. This is incredibly stupid, and therefore automatically the most likely option.
Option 2 is most likely. You could twist it though and make it less tedious. Say, Sylvanas oversteps and gets overthrown, but early on in the xpac. Greymane doesn't care. Even if Saurfang is Warchief he's had enough and they all have to go. He either overthrows Anduin or convinces him he's right and the faction war turns into the Alliance trying to press on a noble savage horde from all sides.
Here's the thing, if Blizzard didn't choose option 2, 4, or the Kerrigan option, and didn't default to the rule of cool with the memory of a goldfish, then BFA could be a really interesting expansion from a story and character perspective. There is lots of potential there for some interesting events to occur. However, since they don't have the guts to follow through on that and none of the major implications of the events is going to be dealt with or even remembered in 6 months time, it will all end up just being disappointing. There's a reason why my RL friends who still play wow almost entirely ignore the story and skip all the cutscenes. Every time they try to follow along they just get disappointed.
y'know if helya dramatically came back and was like "I'm here to collect on our bargain, banshee queen" that would be pretty ok, since I'm pretty sure that is a forgotten plot thread that is never going to be explored and surprises are fun
y'know if helya dramatically came back and was like "I'm here to collect on our bargain, banshee queen" that would be pretty ok, since I'm pretty sure that is a forgotten plot thread that is never going to be explored and surprises are fun
TBH Odyn could always put Sylvanas in charge of Helheim. It's still a damn better fate for her than her current one. She could turn it into the afterlife of the Forsaken.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
y'know if helya dramatically came back and was like "I'm here to collect on our bargain, banshee queen" that would be pretty ok, since I'm pretty sure that is a forgotten plot thread that is never going to be explored and surprises are fun
TBH Odyn could always put Sylvanas in charge of Helheim. It's still a damn better fate for her than her current one. She could turn it into the afterlife of the Forsaken.
Now that you say that I'm almost sure that'll be it if its not ANDUIN AND SYLVANAS: BUDDY COP VOID GOD FIGHTING DUO
Styrofoam Sammich on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Y'know I chose Stormheim as my first zone in Legion and I'm really regretting it. This place is fucking hard to navigate. A lot of the pathways I didn't know existed until I was looking across the bay or was at the bottom when I could've gone down from the top or vice-versa. Yes I have the grappling hook thing but that's not the point and it doesn't always help. woof.
Well you'll be happy to know that I just finished Stormheim and ran up toward Highmountain because there was a quest marker there.
I'm glad I got some context on why Sylvanas was in that Valkyr vault thing. I'd seen the cinematic before but it didn't exactly explain what was going on. Also now I have the context of her actions for BfA so really fuck Sylvanas and anything she's ever wanted to do.
I left the zone at level 104 and nearly a half. Got a feeling within a few days I'll be 110.
I'd like if something like that were to happen; where Helya pulls a Flemeth and makes a side deal with Sylvanas to ensure her ultimate return should she be killed by Odyn/the players. But I honestly think that's too clever for Blizzard and won't happen.
I also liked the part where Jaina came in and deus ex machina'd all of the blight away and also opened the walls for the siege, that was good shit. Every expansion ya gotta make sure Khadgar and/or Jaina showboats something that the player Mages will never be able to do.
"I'm known for my timing" - Alleria "late to the party" Windrunner
Tried teleporting to Undercity, dumped me in Tirisfal. Nice touch. Also trying to enter undercity is super ultra DoT damage, don't dead open inside.
WoW has never had player choice or player agency in the story before. WoW has always been an on-rails story since the beginning.
But this is also the first time where that matters. Players have always "gone along with it" because whether they were playing Alliance or Horde, they were the good guys. The Horde were noble savages who aren't evil, just green and scary looking, but actually have hearts of gold. And the Alliance are the classic "good guys" that are generally portrayed in every fantasy setting ever.
BfA changes that. Now they are forcing Horde players to take evil actions whether they agree with it or not. There's no such thing as protesting. If you want to see the story and level up and access the new expansion content, you have to go along with it. You have to take those evil actions and be totally complicit whether you like it or not. There is no other option.
And that's the real problem here. Until now it hasn't mattered that this is an on-rails story. But now it matters. I want to be able to put my foot down and say "NO" and tell Sylvanas to go fuck herself. But they're not letting me.
WoW has never had player choice or player agency in the story before. WoW has always been an on-rails story since the beginning.
But this is also the first time where that matters. Players have always "gone along with it" because whether they were playing Alliance or Horde, they were the good guys. The Horde were noble savages who aren't evil, just green and scary looking, but actually have hearts of gold. And the Alliance are the classic "good guys" that are generally portrayed in every fantasy setting ever.
BfA changes that. Now they are forcing Horde players to take evil actions whether they agree with it or not. There's no such thing as protesting. If you want to see the story and level up and access the new expansion content, you have to go along with it. You have to take those evil actions and be totally complicit whether you like it or not. There is no other option.
And that's the real problem here. Until now it hasn't mattered that this is an on-rails story. But now it matters. I want to be able to put my foot down and say "NO" and tell Sylvanas to go fuck herself. But they're not letting me.
Most of the Horde story lines in MoP boiled down to "how much of a shitbird can I be". Its not new.
WoW has never had player choice or player agency in the story before. WoW has always been an on-rails story since the beginning.
But this is also the first time where that matters. Players have always "gone along with it" because whether they were playing Alliance or Horde, they were the good guys. The Horde were noble savages who aren't evil, just green and scary looking, but actually have hearts of gold. And the Alliance are the classic "good guys" that are generally portrayed in every fantasy setting ever.
BfA changes that. Now they are forcing Horde players to take evil actions whether they agree with it or not. There's no such thing as protesting. If you want to see the story and level up and access the new expansion content, you have to go along with it. You have to take those evil actions and be totally complicit whether you like it or not. There is no other option.
And that's the real problem here. Until now it hasn't mattered that this is an on-rails story. But now it matters. I want to be able to put my foot down and say "NO" and tell Sylvanas to go fuck herself. But they're not letting me.
Most of the Horde story lines in MoP boiled down to "how much of a shitbird can I be". Its not new.
Not really? You're invading at the start, sure. But so are the Alliance. Both are invaders. And then a fight breaks out, people start acting irrationally on both sides and then you learn about the Shas. But the Alliance do mean stuff too. And then you purge your evil spirits and a measure of peace is restored. Not happy peace, but tenuous begrudging peace. But peace nonetheless. And it isn't even as if the Alliance/Horde were the only ones shown to have Sha corruption. Even the Shado-pan, who are the sworn defenders against the Sha, are shown to have corruption in their ranks.
WoW has never had player choice or player agency in the story before. WoW has always been an on-rails story since the beginning.
But this is also the first time where that matters. Players have always "gone along with it" because whether they were playing Alliance or Horde, they were the good guys. The Horde were noble savages who aren't evil, just green and scary looking, but actually have hearts of gold. And the Alliance are the classic "good guys" that are generally portrayed in every fantasy setting ever.
BfA changes that. Now they are forcing Horde players to take evil actions whether they agree with it or not. There's no such thing as protesting. If you want to see the story and level up and access the new expansion content, you have to go along with it. You have to take those evil actions and be totally complicit whether you like it or not. There is no other option.
And that's the real problem here. Until now it hasn't mattered that this is an on-rails story. But now it matters. I want to be able to put my foot down and say "NO" and tell Sylvanas to go fuck herself. But they're not letting me.
Most of the Horde story lines in MoP boiled down to "how much of a shitbird can I be". Its not new.
Does make you wonder. Horde has always battled to win largely regardless of morality. From classic to now the "Noble Savage" has been a party line that died a few feet out of orgrimmar/thunder bluff.
I guess I just don't see the moral difference between blight and mage fire. Both kill you just as horrifically. And both sides field death knights...so raising the freshly dead is par for the course.
As a death knight these tactics are just mine. On a larger scale. I'd also be interested to see just how many horde players picked the "Mask AND blight gun option" almost all the ones in my raid did.
WoW has never had player choice or player agency in the story before. WoW has always been an on-rails story since the beginning.
But this is also the first time where that matters. Players have always "gone along with it" because whether they were playing Alliance or Horde, they were the good guys. The Horde were noble savages who aren't evil, just green and scary looking, but actually have hearts of gold. And the Alliance are the classic "good guys" that are generally portrayed in every fantasy setting ever.
BfA changes that. Now they are forcing Horde players to take evil actions whether they agree with it or not. There's no such thing as protesting. If you want to see the story and level up and access the new expansion content, you have to go along with it. You have to take those evil actions and be totally complicit whether you like it or not. There is no other option.
And that's the real problem here. Until now it hasn't mattered that this is an on-rails story. But now it matters. I want to be able to put my foot down and say "NO" and tell Sylvanas to go fuck herself. But they're not letting me.
Most of the Horde story lines in MoP boiled down to "how much of a shitbird can I be". Its not new.
Does make you wonder. Horde has always battled to win largely regardless of morality. From classic to now the "Noble Savage" has been a party line that died a few feet out of orgrimmar/thunder bluff.
I guess I just don't see the moral difference between blight and mage fire. Both kill you just as horrifically. And both sides field death knights...so raising the freshly dead is par for the course.
As a death knight these tactics are just mine. On a larger scale. I'd also be interested to see just how many horde players picked the "Mask AND blight gun option" almost all the ones in my raid did.
The blight leaves the area uninhabitable. Its chemical warfare.
Like, if Sylvanas deployed the blight in Mulgore or Durotar and turned it into a dead uninhabitable wasteland that would be an issue.
Burning things doesn't have that problem. Everything grows back.
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Guys, I just did the Horde-side Lordraeron scenario and... Sylvanas seemed perfectly fine? I take some issue with the scenario but...
Everything Sylvanas did seemed fine? They have troops that can especially withstand blight, so it makes a lot of sense to use it to me. Plus apparently we had gas masks and shit. It seemed like we were fully prepared for this shit. Anduin said that it's killing the Horde troops, but I'm not sure that actually happened? Seemed like we had masks on and maybe he didn't realise it.
Saurfang calling it honorless does not make much sense to me. Burning Teldrassil, sure, but this just seems to be using a weapon. How different is using blight versus using some giant fucking fireball or blizzard? Does he just want combat to be purely hitting other people in the face? That doesn't seem to jive at all with WoW at all. We're always hitting shit in the back. That's where melee DPS is supposed to be!
The writing was, as usually, completely Alliance-biased I thought. All the Alliance leaders had their crazy powerful moments, while Baine and Saurfang and everybody else on the Horde are just running for their lives. Jaina and Alleria get some bullshit deus ex moments, rescuing an Alliance force that seemed to be just going in largely without any plan at all, while the Horde seemed to have plans upon plans upon plans? Kinda ridiculous imo.
I guess I'll watch the Alliance side in cutscenes and see what's what from the other perspective, but boy that seemed like some awfully one-sided writing there. Overall a good scenario, but my response to it is the opposite of what seemed to be intended.
Guys, I just did the Horde-side Lordraeron scenario and... Sylvanas seemed perfectly fine? I take some issue with the scenario but...
Everything Sylvanas did seemed fine? They have troops that can especially withstand blight, so it makes a lot of sense to use it to me. Plus apparently we had gas masks and shit. It seemed like we were fully prepared for this shit. Anduin said that it's killing the Horde troops, but I'm not sure that actually happened? Seemed like we had masks on and maybe he didn't realise it.
Saurfang calling it honorless does not make much sense to me. Burning Teldrassil, sure, but this just seems to be using a weapon. How different is using blight versus using some giant fucking fireball or blizzard? Does he just want combat to be purely hitting other people in the face? That doesn't seem to jive at all with WoW at all. We're always hitting shit in the back. That's where melee DPS is supposed to be!
The writing was, as usually, completely Alliance-biased I thought. All the Alliance leaders had their crazy powerful moments, while Baine and Saurfang and everybody else on the Horde are just running for their lives. Jaina and Alleria get some bullshit deus ex moments, rescuing an Alliance force that seemed to be just going in largely without any plan at all, while the Horde seemed to have plans upon plans upon plans? Kinda ridiculous imo.
Um did you not pay attention to what was happening?
On the Horde side there are a lot of damaged Horde troops the players can rescue as they go through the blight. She did in fact drop the blight on her own forces, who were dying in the blight, its just that the Horde players were able to save some of them.
Of course on the Alliance side there aren't any Horde players to save their troops.
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Guys, I just did the Horde-side Lordraeron scenario and... Sylvanas seemed perfectly fine? I take some issue with the scenario but...
Everything Sylvanas did seemed fine? They have troops that can especially withstand blight, so it makes a lot of sense to use it to me. Plus apparently we had gas masks and shit. It seemed like we were fully prepared for this shit. Anduin said that it's killing the Horde troops, but I'm not sure that actually happened? Seemed like we had masks on and maybe he didn't realise it.
Saurfang calling it honorless does not make much sense to me. Burning Teldrassil, sure, but this just seems to be using a weapon. How different is using blight versus using some giant fucking fireball or blizzard? Does he just want combat to be purely hitting other people in the face? That doesn't seem to jive at all with WoW at all. We're always hitting shit in the back. That's where melee DPS is supposed to be!
The writing was, as usually, completely Alliance-biased I thought. All the Alliance leaders had their crazy powerful moments, while Baine and Saurfang and everybody else on the Horde are just running for their lives. Jaina and Alleria get some bullshit deus ex moments, rescuing an Alliance force that seemed to be just going in largely without any plan at all, while the Horde seemed to have plans upon plans upon plans? Kinda ridiculous imo.
I guess I'll watch the Alliance side in cutscenes and see what's what from the other perspective, but boy that seemed like some awfully one-sided writing there. Overall a good scenario, but my response to it is the opposite of what seemed to be intended.
Except for the part where she literally sprays her own living troops with the green gas and then raises them back as skeletons. You also have to call into question the morality of raising anyone as a skeleton.
What she says and what she does are at odds. She tells Saurfang that she's here to defend the living Horde, but then she kills a ton of her own dudes.
At this point the conclusion can only lead to a few places:
Option One: No Thrall, You Are the Baddies
The Horde becomes proper villains and we get a clear good/evil faction split. Sylvanas treats the Horde well, and they are quick to disregard the "old guard" that sputters endlessly about honor. Saurfang, Thrall, et al kinda fuck off and act as loose allies to the Alliance whereas leaders like Lor'themar finally get some limelight as glorious mustache-twirling assholes. Their laughable attempts at moral ambiguity over, Blizzard can allow the Alliance to be more aggressive because, you know, fuck Sylvanas and her new evil Horde. Writing will improve significantly because Blizzard can stay the hell away from that whole "nuance" thing they suck at.
The downside is that this is super boring. Oh, the faction of monsters turned out to be monsters? Never saw that coming. But more importantly, a lot of people will not be down with suddenly being the bad guys after decades of being the faction of misunderstood heroes. Having overarching villains (Legion, Void Lords, etc.) may be harder when one faction is just as likely to join them, but this probably won't happen since most of the Big Baddies in WoW have a firm policy of "Kill Everyone" that even an evil Horde would oppose.
Option Two: Time is a Flat Circle
The Horde rejects Sylvanas and eventually rebels against her. I have nothing positive to say about this.
But I have LOTS of negative. First, we did this shit with Garrosh, so it's already lazy writing. Two, it kneecaps the central theme of BFA by having attention drawn back to a Horde civil war. I mean...look at this: we're all talking about the HORDE and don't give a fuck about any war with the Alliance. Which brings me to my next point: it puts the Alliance on the backburner. Again. Not only does the Horde have a more dynamic and interesting story, but it makes the Alliance look REAL dumb if they overthrow Sylvanas and DON'T make good on Varian's threat to Vol'jin. This is just lazy, terrible writing, but fully what I expected from a Faction War Expansion.
Option Three: I Want Off Mr. Facton's Wild Ride
Sylvanas is defeated, but Anduinn actually makes good on his threat. The Horde is no more. Everyone is incorporated into the Alliance, which may have a Dramatic Rename for the occasion. This ends the outdated and bad faction split, and gives us a clear winner to BFA. It also lets the Alliance have a solid victory for once, hooray!
Obviously this would piss off a few people, and there's a lot of logistics to deal with here, but that's about it. You can bullshit up some opt-in factions for PvP, and it would also be a good excuse to wipe the slate clean and have an abbreviated leveling process. But it would be a lot of work, make no mistake.
Option Four: The Butler Did It
Sylvanas was corrupted by the Void Lords or something. This is incredibly stupid, and therefore automatically the most likely option.
one option that i may be entirely fabricating: didn't blzizard say that vol'jin's story wasn't over? if he were to become a loa (whatever that means) couldn't he theoretically return (even temporarily) to right whatever wrong sylvanas does and play into one of your above 4 options.
ultimately i don't think the lines you are presenting are mutually exclusive. maybe #1 which i don't think they would ever outright do (but then again...all this). option 2 is informed by #4 and leads to #3 is not impossible. it wouldnt be good in any way, shape, or form but it isn't impossible.
WoW has never had player choice or player agency in the story before. WoW has always been an on-rails story since the beginning.
But this is also the first time where that matters. Players have always "gone along with it" because whether they were playing Alliance or Horde, they were the good guys. The Horde were noble savages who aren't evil, just green and scary looking, but actually have hearts of gold. And the Alliance are the classic "good guys" that are generally portrayed in every fantasy setting ever.
BfA changes that. Now they are forcing Horde players to take evil actions whether they agree with it or not. There's no such thing as protesting. If you want to see the story and level up and access the new expansion content, you have to go along with it. You have to take those evil actions and be totally complicit whether you like it or not. There is no other option.
And that's the real problem here. Until now it hasn't mattered that this is an on-rails story. But now it matters. I want to be able to put my foot down and say "NO" and tell Sylvanas to go fuck herself. But they're not letting me.
Most of the Horde story lines in MoP boiled down to "how much of a shitbird can I be". Its not new.
Does make you wonder. Horde has always battled to win largely regardless of morality. From classic to now the "Noble Savage" has been a party line that died a few feet out of orgrimmar/thunder bluff.
I guess I just don't see the moral difference between blight and mage fire. Both kill you just as horrifically. And both sides field death knights...so raising the freshly dead is par for the course.
As a death knight these tactics are just mine. On a larger scale. I'd also be interested to see just how many horde players picked the "Mask AND blight gun option" almost all the ones in my raid did.
The blight leaves the area uninhabitable. Its chemical warfare.
Like, if Sylvanas deployed the blight in Mulgore or Durotar and turned it into a dead uninhabitable wasteland that would be an issue.
Burning things doesn't have that problem. Everything grows back.
Posts
Highmountain > Azsuna > Stormheim >>> Val'Sharah, imo.
It gets easier when you realize there is, 100%, a way up every cliff in every area (with both walking and grappling hook).
It's just a matter of finding them. And in finding them you find treasure almost always.
that's the starting line for gear in BFA I guess, the pre-patch event world quest gear is higher than that because it's a special event.
Most of the gear in the first zones will be closer to 180 than the 210 we are picking up, I imagine.
Legion treasure chests aren't nearly as valuable as they used to be, now that AP is no longer a thing. Although you'll still get some gold and order resources, usually.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Doesn't matter if they are useful.
Treasuuuureeeee! $_$
Option One: No Thrall, You Are the Baddies
The Horde becomes proper villains and we get a clear good/evil faction split. Sylvanas treats the Horde well, and they are quick to disregard the "old guard" that sputters endlessly about honor. Saurfang, Thrall, et al kinda fuck off and act as loose allies to the Alliance whereas leaders like Lor'themar finally get some limelight as glorious mustache-twirling assholes. Their laughable attempts at moral ambiguity over, Blizzard can allow the Alliance to be more aggressive because, you know, fuck Sylvanas and her new evil Horde. Writing will improve significantly because Blizzard can stay the hell away from that whole "nuance" thing they suck at.
The downside is that this is super boring. Oh, the faction of monsters turned out to be monsters? Never saw that coming. But more importantly, a lot of people will not be down with suddenly being the bad guys after decades of being the faction of misunderstood heroes. Having overarching villains (Legion, Void Lords, etc.) may be harder when one faction is just as likely to join them, but this probably won't happen since most of the Big Baddies in WoW have a firm policy of "Kill Everyone" that even an evil Horde would oppose.
Option Two: Time is a Flat Circle
The Horde rejects Sylvanas and eventually rebels against her. I have nothing positive to say about this.
But I have LOTS of negative. First, we did this shit with Garrosh, so it's already lazy writing. Two, it kneecaps the central theme of BFA by having attention drawn back to a Horde civil war. I mean...look at this: we're all talking about the HORDE and don't give a fuck about any war with the Alliance. Which brings me to my next point: it puts the Alliance on the backburner. Again. Not only does the Horde have a more dynamic and interesting story, but it makes the Alliance look REAL dumb if they overthrow Sylvanas and DON'T make good on Varian's threat to Vol'jin. This is just lazy, terrible writing, but fully what I expected from a Faction War Expansion.
Option Three: I Want Off Mr. Facton's Wild Ride
Sylvanas is defeated, but Anduinn actually makes good on his threat. The Horde is no more. Everyone is incorporated into the Alliance, which may have a Dramatic Rename for the occasion. This ends the outdated and bad faction split, and gives us a clear winner to BFA. It also lets the Alliance have a solid victory for once, hooray!
Obviously this would piss off a few people, and there's a lot of logistics to deal with here, but that's about it. You can bullshit up some opt-in factions for PvP, and it would also be a good excuse to wipe the slate clean and have an abbreviated leveling process. But it would be a lot of work, make no mistake.
Option Four: The Butler Did It
Sylvanas was corrupted by the Void Lords or something. This is incredibly stupid, and therefore automatically the most likely option.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Or you get something like this..
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
just watchin jerks fall to their death is perfect
EDIT: nvm Nobody 's got it covered ^. SCII's story went dumber and dumber
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
I mean, she did make some sort of bargain with Helya. Who is gone now, I guess, so who knows what Sylvanas promised or if it is binding anymore.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
TBH Odyn could always put Sylvanas in charge of Helheim. It's still a damn better fate for her than her current one. She could turn it into the afterlife of the Forsaken.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Now that you say that I'm almost sure that'll be it if its not ANDUIN AND SYLVANAS: BUDDY COP VOID GOD FIGHTING DUO
I'm glad I got some context on why Sylvanas was in that Valkyr vault thing. I'd seen the cinematic before but it didn't exactly explain what was going on. Also now I have the context of her actions for BfA so really fuck Sylvanas and anything she's ever wanted to do.
I left the zone at level 104 and nearly a half. Got a feeling within a few days I'll be 110.
I also liked the part where Jaina came in and deus ex machina'd all of the blight away and also opened the walls for the siege, that was good shit. Every expansion ya gotta make sure Khadgar and/or Jaina showboats something that the player Mages will never be able to do.
"I'm known for my timing" - Alleria "late to the party" Windrunner
Tried teleporting to Undercity, dumped me in Tirisfal. Nice touch. Also trying to enter undercity is super ultra DoT damage, don't dead open inside.
I'm a bit confused by this. The faction with impeccable perfect god characters hasn't been solidly winning since...forever?
But this is also the first time where that matters. Players have always "gone along with it" because whether they were playing Alliance or Horde, they were the good guys. The Horde were noble savages who aren't evil, just green and scary looking, but actually have hearts of gold. And the Alliance are the classic "good guys" that are generally portrayed in every fantasy setting ever.
BfA changes that. Now they are forcing Horde players to take evil actions whether they agree with it or not. There's no such thing as protesting. If you want to see the story and level up and access the new expansion content, you have to go along with it. You have to take those evil actions and be totally complicit whether you like it or not. There is no other option.
And that's the real problem here. Until now it hasn't mattered that this is an on-rails story. But now it matters. I want to be able to put my foot down and say "NO" and tell Sylvanas to go fuck herself. But they're not letting me.
Most of the Horde story lines in MoP boiled down to "how much of a shitbird can I be". Its not new.
Not really? You're invading at the start, sure. But so are the Alliance. Both are invaders. And then a fight breaks out, people start acting irrationally on both sides and then you learn about the Shas. But the Alliance do mean stuff too. And then you purge your evil spirits and a measure of peace is restored. Not happy peace, but tenuous begrudging peace. But peace nonetheless. And it isn't even as if the Alliance/Horde were the only ones shown to have Sha corruption. Even the Shado-pan, who are the sworn defenders against the Sha, are shown to have corruption in their ranks.
So no, this isn't really like Pandaria at all.
Well looking at theramores smoldering crater, no?
Does make you wonder. Horde has always battled to win largely regardless of morality. From classic to now the "Noble Savage" has been a party line that died a few feet out of orgrimmar/thunder bluff.
I guess I just don't see the moral difference between blight and mage fire. Both kill you just as horrifically. And both sides field death knights...so raising the freshly dead is par for the course.
As a death knight these tactics are just mine. On a larger scale. I'd also be interested to see just how many horde players picked the "Mask AND blight gun option" almost all the ones in my raid did.
Someone hasn't done the Legion DK campaign.
All of the player character DKs absolutely are canonically originally Arthas' DKs, but they are far from sitting idle.
The blight leaves the area uninhabitable. Its chemical warfare.
Like, if Sylvanas deployed the blight in Mulgore or Durotar and turned it into a dead uninhabitable wasteland that would be an issue.
Burning things doesn't have that problem. Everything grows back.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Saurfang calling it honorless does not make much sense to me. Burning Teldrassil, sure, but this just seems to be using a weapon. How different is using blight versus using some giant fucking fireball or blizzard? Does he just want combat to be purely hitting other people in the face? That doesn't seem to jive at all with WoW at all. We're always hitting shit in the back. That's where melee DPS is supposed to be!
The writing was, as usually, completely Alliance-biased I thought. All the Alliance leaders had their crazy powerful moments, while Baine and Saurfang and everybody else on the Horde are just running for their lives. Jaina and Alleria get some bullshit deus ex moments, rescuing an Alliance force that seemed to be just going in largely without any plan at all, while the Horde seemed to have plans upon plans upon plans? Kinda ridiculous imo.
I guess I'll watch the Alliance side in cutscenes and see what's what from the other perspective, but boy that seemed like some awfully one-sided writing there. Overall a good scenario, but my response to it is the opposite of what seemed to be intended.
This is true! Interesting, so they are raising more?
Um did you not pay attention to what was happening?
Of course on the Alliance side there aren't any Horde players to save their troops.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
They are able to make new DKs. They tried to make Tirion one, at least.
What she says and what she does are at odds. She tells Saurfang that she's here to defend the living Horde, but then she kills a ton of her own dudes.
one option that i may be entirely fabricating: didn't blzizard say that vol'jin's story wasn't over? if he were to become a loa (whatever that means) couldn't he theoretically return (even temporarily) to right whatever wrong sylvanas does and play into one of your above 4 options.
ultimately i don't think the lines you are presenting are mutually exclusive. maybe #1 which i don't think they would ever outright do (but then again...all this). option 2 is informed by #4 and leads to #3 is not impossible. it wouldnt be good in any way, shape, or form but it isn't impossible.
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How does Jaina get rid of it then?