Also, can someone tell me if in Captain America Hydra actually helped people, or whether the people just think Hydra helped? Because one of those is fucking awful?
I get the feeling that Hydra "helped" in the same way that drug cartels in Mexico sometimes build schools and hospitals.
Chincy you're kinda being unnecessarily dickish here dude
fuck that
there is absolutely no reason to tell people not to use the word fascist about someone whos a fascist
Please do not frame a pithy post telling someone to read a dictionary as a noble stand against fascism.
taking fascism and saying no its not really fascism is literally one if the biggest problems facing our country and the world
saying its not "technically" fascism so you cant use that word can absolutely get fucked, its logic thats been used to horrific effect to whitewash real world fascists
I agree that Carol, specifically in Civil War 2 is facist as hell and it was fucking bad
But in both her solo book since then and her other appearances in Ultimates and Avengers ant the such she has not been fascistic at all and that she has not been for the majority of her character history
I can understand someone being really annoyed that one really bad story has caused her to be written off as a facist forever going forward
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KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
Wikipedia defines "facism" as "a form of radical authoritarian ultranationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy, which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. The first fascist movements emerged in Italy during World War I before it spread to other European countries. Opposed to liberalism, Marxism and anarchism, fascism is placed on the far-right within the traditional left–right spectrum."
Authoritarianism: "form of government characterized by strong central power and limited political freedoms. Individual freedoms are subordinate to the state and there is no constitutional accountability under an authoritarian regime"
Totalitarianism: " a mode of government that prohibits opposition parties, restricts individual opposition to the state and its claims, and exercises an extremely high degree of control over public and private life. It is regarded as the most extreme and complete form of authoritarianism."
Carol has, in the past, signed with the US government to hunt down Superheroes (people she's worked with before, even!) who refuse to register under the SHRA, signed up with SHIELD to hunt down the illuminati, and essentially ran the international organization that, among other things, was imprisoning people before they committed crimes
I don't feel she's ultranationalist in any way, so I'd agree she isn't facist. She isn't really totalitarian either. I'd totally say she's closest to authoritarian.
I agree that Carol, specifically in Civil War 2 is facist as hell and it was fucking bad
But in both her solo book since then and her other appearances in Ultimates and Avengers ant the such she has not been fascistic at all and that she has not been for the majority of her character history
I can understand someone being really annoyed that one really bad story has caused her to be written off as a facist forever going forward
On the one hand, it's a fictional character so different creative teams with different creative directions should be able to put their own spin on things. But on the other, there's a pretty good reason most people are uncomfortable with "forgiving and forgetting" fascism, even in a fictional setting
Fascism is a thing that exists, and is a real threat in the real world. Our current President is a fascist, and I have zero qualms about saying so.
I don't think the story of Civil War II illustrates almost any of the actual tell-tale signs of fascism, and I think if you're going to disagree with me about that, I wish you would explain why instead of accusing me of being an apologist for fascism.
I agree that Carol, specifically in Civil War 2 is facist as hell and it was fucking bad
But in both her solo book since then and her other appearances in Ultimates and Avengers ant the such she has not been fascistic at all and that she has not been for the majority of her character history
I can understand someone being really annoyed that one really bad story has caused her to be written off as a facist forever going forward
On the one hand, it's a fictional character so different creative teams with different creative directions should be able to put their own spin on things. But on the other, there's a pretty good reason most people are uncomfortable with "forgiving and forgetting" fascism, even in a fictional setting
Yeah I get that but I think applying that real person logic to a fictional character driven entirely by rotating creative teams is...unrealistic at best.
If there had been decades of her being facist I would understand more but there really haven't been and outside of CW2 she is mostly just guilty of being more right-leaning than most other heroes.
I agree that Carol, specifically in Civil War 2 is facist as hell and it was fucking bad
But in both her solo book since then and her other appearances in Ultimates and Avengers ant the such she has not been fascistic at all and that she has not been for the majority of her character history
I can understand someone being really annoyed that one really bad story has caused her to be written off as a facist forever going forward
On the one hand, it's a fictional character so different creative teams with different creative directions should be able to put their own spin on things. But on the other, there's a pretty good reason most people are uncomfortable with "forgiving and forgetting" fascism, even in a fictional setting
Yeah I get that but I think applying that real person logic to a fictional character driven entirely by rotating creative teams is...unrealistic at best.
If there had been decades of her being facist I would understand more but there really haven't been and outside of CW2 she is mostly just guilty of being more right-leaning than most other heroes.
I ain't saying it makes sound logical sense but we're not purely logical beings. People connect emotionally to fiction and that swings both ways.
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KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
GustavFriend of GoatsSomewhere in the OzarksRegistered Userregular
Carol seems to fall under it more than most given the writer.
But I don't think a lot of superheroes (especially ones with ties to governments or story proxies like SHIELD) look particularly great when you enter further layers of realism.
I mean, the cool thing about the Marvel movies is that they don't have to be beholden to every dumb decision made by every writer who ever penned the character.
Hell, look at Captain America: Civil War! Even the people who don't much care for that film would probably agree that it's a lot better than the actual comic that it shares its name with.
I mean, the cool thing about the Marvel movies is that they don't have to be beholden to every dumb decision made by every writer who ever penned the character.
Hell, look at Captain America: Civil War! Even the people who don't much care for that film would probably agree that it's a lot better than the actual comic that it shares its name with.
Carol seems to fall under it more than most given the writer.
But I don't think a lot of superheroes (especially ones with ties to governments or story proxies like SHIELD) look particularly great when you enter further layers of realism.
It's because they've failed to build a consistent vision for the character, so they fall back on her military career as her defining character trait. She's a soldier, she follows orders. So whenever there's superhero vs superhero beef, she winds up siding with whichever side has the backing of the law. That side just inevitably winds up being the side of assholes.
I mean, the cool thing about the Marvel movies is that they don't have to be beholden to every dumb decision made by every writer who ever penned the character.
Hell, look at Captain America: Civil War! Even the people who don't much care for that film would probably agree that it's a lot better than the actual comic that it shares its name with.
I don't know what you're talking about. I, for one, was very upset that Tony didn't build a Thor clone.
I think it's a good chance MCU Carol will define the character as they please.
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
edited September 2018
This will be the one time where the MCU creating a characterization that the comics have to run with is probably the best thing for the character
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Quicksilver: No Surrender wrapped up this week and it stuck the landing after a bit of a meandering middle. It was a great character study of Pietro and ended with a fantastic show of growth from his decades of being stuck in the Peter David "impatient asshole stuck in a slow world" character mold
Pietro managed to calm himself down and stand still enough to dispel the mindless monsters stealing his speed, only to be left with a doppelganger of his, having latched onto his thoughts and using them to take form and substance.
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I get the feeling that Hydra "helped" in the same way that drug cartels in Mexico sometimes build schools and hospitals.
taking fascism and saying no its not really fascism is literally one if the biggest problems facing our country and the world
saying its not "technically" fascism so you cant use that word can absolutely get fucked, its logic thats been used to horrific effect to whitewash real world fascists
But in both her solo book since then and her other appearances in Ultimates and Avengers ant the such she has not been fascistic at all and that she has not been for the majority of her character history
I can understand someone being really annoyed that one really bad story has caused her to be written off as a facist forever going forward
Wait is this post implying Centipede Damascus is a fascist or like a fascist apologist or something
Authoritarianism: "form of government characterized by strong central power and limited political freedoms. Individual freedoms are subordinate to the state and there is no constitutional accountability under an authoritarian regime"
Totalitarianism: " a mode of government that prohibits opposition parties, restricts individual opposition to the state and its claims, and exercises an extremely high degree of control over public and private life. It is regarded as the most extreme and complete form of authoritarianism."
Carol has, in the past, signed with the US government to hunt down Superheroes (people she's worked with before, even!) who refuse to register under the SHRA, signed up with SHIELD to hunt down the illuminati, and essentially ran the international organization that, among other things, was imprisoning people before they committed crimes
I don't feel she's ultranationalist in any way, so I'd agree she isn't facist. She isn't really totalitarian either. I'd totally say she's closest to authoritarian.
no
but it is saying that the primary reason to say fascism is something else is to cover for fascists
On the one hand, it's a fictional character so different creative teams with different creative directions should be able to put their own spin on things. But on the other, there's a pretty good reason most people are uncomfortable with "forgiving and forgetting" fascism, even in a fictional setting
I don't think the story of Civil War II illustrates almost any of the actual tell-tale signs of fascism, and I think if you're going to disagree with me about that, I wish you would explain why instead of accusing me of being an apologist for fascism.
If there had been decades of her being facist I would understand more but there really haven't been and outside of CW2 she is mostly just guilty of being more right-leaning than most other heroes.
I don't know Centipede Damascus from Adam or Cain
https://www.paypal.me/hobnailtaylor
Most people have trouble telling those three apart. Practically triplets
I ain't saying it makes sound logical sense but we're not purely logical beings. People connect emotionally to fiction and that swings both ways.
So yes then?
Seems kinda harsh Hobnail, but you do you I guess
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But I don't think a lot of superheroes (especially ones with ties to governments or story proxies like SHIELD) look particularly great when you enter further layers of realism.
I have it on good authority Cain was kind of a jerk
Hell, look at Captain America: Civil War! Even the people who don't much care for that film would probably agree that it's a lot better than the actual comic that it shares its name with.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
yeah but you can't really take the undertaker's word on that considering
I mean it's real hard to be worse
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It's because they've failed to build a consistent vision for the character, so they fall back on her military career as her defining character trait. She's a soldier, she follows orders. So whenever there's superhero vs superhero beef, she winds up siding with whichever side has the backing of the law. That side just inevitably winds up being the side of assholes.
I don't know what you're talking about. I, for one, was very upset that Tony didn't build a Thor clone.
I think it's a good chance MCU Carol will define the character as they please.
That's the hope!
Oh my God.
Fastball were Skrulls.
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Cant wait for the Skrulls new single “Shapeshift for HIM”
Fastball were Christian Rock?
Wouldn't have guessed that from The Way
Oh, I have no idea.
That image just evoked a very 90s Fastball music vibe to me.
ahem
1. they shapeshift
2. they believe in god
and also that Mar-Vell once got it on with a Skrull princess and she had a baby and that baby is a gay superhero