So I'm guessing any kind of significant single player content is out of the question. Anyone heard anything about that?
Why? We didn't hear about single-player stuff in the previous Smashes until close before they came out.
Mainly because this is an enhanced port. I’m not surprised, after all I predicted it when they first announced Smash for Switch. Too soon for a truly new game. With every little change they discussed it would have made a lot of sense to mention single player were it a thing.
If they've been working on this since before the last Smash came out as the job listings suggest, they'd have plenty of time to put in Smash Run even if it is an enhanced port.
Ganondorf's sword is involved in several attacks. I think his utilt is totally different now.
Dedede can inhale his gordos (and maybe other projectiles?) and spit them out at people. He may have a new fair (still a hammer swing, but seemed horizontal instead of overhead)
Little Mac's side-b no longer puts him in a helpless state. He can also angle his KO Punch?
Young Link has a rapid jab.
Dr. Mario has a new dair that spikes.
Zelda's side-b shows the armor constructing as it charges. Could just be an aesthetic thing.
Olimar's throw now has all his pikmin holding the opponent in place while he smacks them. Maybe his pummel damage is no longer affected by active Pikmin, but throw strength or duration improves based on them?
Peach/Daisy throws involve Toad.
Pokemon Trainer's switch is shown multiple times as an evasive tool.
Pichu can crawl.
Nana (or Popo) seems to visibly panic while their partner is in a grab. You may be unable to use them to free yourself, similar to Rosalina & Luma.
Bowser has a new uair that is similar to his old one, but he's inside his shell. So likely different hitboxes.
Wario's dash attack is finally the charge he has in his platforming series (the same as in Project M).
Kirby's 64 dash attack is back.
Mario has new taunts, including one with Cappy.
DK's cargo hold has a new look (carries smaller characters with one arm).
I don't consider it a major jump that Smash/Melee/Brawl/4 were. It's still a "new" game, but at the same time it feels like a souped up version of 4, but with a bunch of additions and improvements.
What it really reminds me of is that one Mortal Kombat game that I think came out sometime after 3 or something? Where it was 3's engine, but every character that had ever been in the series up to that point.
Basically I don't feel like I'm double dipping, but at the same time they did say "Don't expect anything drastically new".
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
I don't consider it a major jump that Smash/Melee/Brawl/4 were. It's still a "new" game, but at the same time it feels like a souped up version of 4, but with a bunch of additions and improvements.
What it really reminds me of is that one Mortal Kombat game that I think came out sometime after 3 or something? Where it was 3's engine, but every character that had ever been in the series up to that point.
Basically I don't feel like I'm double dipping, but at the same time they did say "Don't expect anything drastically new".
I dunno. They are making significant changes to most movesets, adding new features, new assist trophies, items, stages, etc. In terms of "Don't expect anything drastically new" - has anything new really happened with the series since Smash 64 outside of new characters? They add a mode here and there, but the basics haven't changed at all.
Speaking of Konami, Snake's symbol has been changed from the Foxhound logo to an exclamation mark. Probably because Kojima used it as his studio's logo while he was at Konami. So there's still some lingering pissiness.
Hmm, that's hard to say honestly. I think the "!" is funnier :P So it could be innocent. Or maybe not? I do feel like Konami has gotten a little better since those dark days at least...
based on what?
Bomberman R mostly. More so the company seems to actually be trying again, vs. "Let's just turn everything into Pachinko machines"
Counterpoint: Castlevania Grimoire of Souls is a mobile gacha
It is basically a port, with a few new features to the same Smash 4 engine and then character updates. Far closer to a port than it is a new game.
Honestly I totally disagree, this is a full new game. It just happens that the theme of this new game is bringing back tons of content from all old Smash games, not just Smash 4. They've made a ton of changes to all the characters and many game system updates. I see this as setting a new baseline for what Smash is from now on.
I think Nintendo's devs just wrote such a good, extensible engine for Smash 4 that there was no need to rewrite it. It's the apex of software design - to do such a good job that when you want to add new functionality, you don't have to start over with a new engine.
So I'm guessing any kind of significant single player content is out of the question. Anyone heard anything about that?
Why? We didn't hear about single-player stuff in the previous Smashes until close before they came out.
Mainly because this is an enhanced port. I’m not surprised, after all I predicted it when they first announced Smash for Switch. Too soon for a truly new game. With every little change they discussed it would have made a lot of sense to mention single player were it a thing.
It's not though? It's a new game...
Would you like to buy a bridge?
I has more new content and changes than Hyrule Warriors Definitive Edition or Tropical Freeze Funky Edition but it's clearly built on the Wii U game. That's not a bad thing, but when Sakurai felt the need to throw in the "don't expect many new characters" he was clearly tempering our expectations. It is what it is.
So I'm guessing any kind of significant single player content is out of the question. Anyone heard anything about that?
Why? We didn't hear about single-player stuff in the previous Smashes until close before they came out.
Mainly because this is an enhanced port. I’m not surprised, after all I predicted it when they first announced Smash for Switch. Too soon for a truly new game. With every little change they discussed it would have made a lot of sense to mention single player were it a thing.
It's not though? It's a new game...
Would you like to buy a bridge?
I has more new content and changes than Hyrule Warriors Definitive Edition or Tropical Freeze Funky Edition but it's clearly built on the Wii U game. That's not a bad thing, but when Sakurai felt the need to throw in the "don't expect many new characters" he was clearly tempering our expectations. It is what it is.
I mean, Majora's Mask was built on the Ocarina of Time engine.... would you say that wasn't a new game?
The games you cited are *literally* the same game with nicer visuals and like one or two new things added. There are *waaaaaay* more changes to this game than that. I feel like he said "Don't expect many new characters" because there's like freaking 65 of them in there already and the game has to come out eventually...
I think Nintendo's devs just wrote such a good, extensible engine for Smash 4 that there was no need to rewrite it. It's the apex of software design - to do such a good job that when you want to add new functionality, you don't have to start over with a new engine.
I guess a better example would be that I consider the previous games as new houses. While this game feels like it's in 4's house, but they seriously redecorated, got some new furniture while moving around the old stuff, knocked out the south wall and built an addition... that sort of thing.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
So I'm guessing any kind of significant single player content is out of the question. Anyone heard anything about that?
Why? We didn't hear about single-player stuff in the previous Smashes until close before they came out.
Mainly because this is an enhanced port. I’m not surprised, after all I predicted it when they first announced Smash for Switch. Too soon for a truly new game. With every little change they discussed it would have made a lot of sense to mention single player were it a thing.
It's not though? It's a new game...
Would you like to buy a bridge?
I has more new content and changes than Hyrule Warriors Definitive Edition or Tropical Freeze Funky Edition but it's clearly built on the Wii U game. That's not a bad thing, but when Sakurai felt the need to throw in the "don't expect many new characters" he was clearly tempering our expectations. It is what it is.
I mean, Majora's Mask was built on the Ocarina of Time engine.... would you say that wasn't a new game?
The games you cited are *literally* the same game with nicer visuals and like one or two new things added. There are *waaaaaay* more changes to this game than that. I feel like he said "Don't expect many new characters" because there's like freaking 65 of them in there already and the game has to come out eventually...
That argument doesn't hold up. Did Majoras Mask include all the content from Ocarina of Time? This is more in line with Super Mario 64 DS as far as balance of previous/updated content on a port.
So I'm guessing any kind of significant single player content is out of the question. Anyone heard anything about that?
Why? We didn't hear about single-player stuff in the previous Smashes until close before they came out.
Mainly because this is an enhanced port. I’m not surprised, after all I predicted it when they first announced Smash for Switch. Too soon for a truly new game. With every little change they discussed it would have made a lot of sense to mention single player were it a thing.
It's not though? It's a new game...
Would you like to buy a bridge?
I has more new content and changes than Hyrule Warriors Definitive Edition or Tropical Freeze Funky Edition but it's clearly built on the Wii U game. That's not a bad thing, but when Sakurai felt the need to throw in the "don't expect many new characters" he was clearly tempering our expectations. It is what it is.
I mean, Majora's Mask was built on the Ocarina of Time engine.... would you say that wasn't a new game?
The games you cited are *literally* the same game with nicer visuals and like one or two new things added. There are *waaaaaay* more changes to this game than that. I feel like he said "Don't expect many new characters" because there's like freaking 65 of them in there already and the game has to come out eventually...
That argument doesn't hold up. Did Majoras Mask include all the content from Ovarina of Time? This is more in line with Super Mario 64 DS as far as previous/updated content on a port.
I mean, it kind of did. The majority of the monsters and npcs were literally ripped out of Ocarina of Time and remixed.
Ultimate appears to be a new Smash game that will look and play similarly to Smash 4. I expect the differences will be more apparent in hands-on impressions than visuals.
I don't consider it a major jump that Smash/Melee/Brawl/4 were. It's still a "new" game, but at the same time it feels like a souped up version of 4, but with a bunch of additions and improvements.
What it really reminds me of is that one Mortal Kombat game that I think came out sometime after 3 or something? Where it was 3's engine, but every character that had ever been in the series up to that point.
Basically I don't feel like I'm double dipping, but at the same time they did say "Don't expect anything drastically new".
I dunno. They are making significant changes to most movesets, adding new features, new assist trophies, items, stages, etc. In terms of "Don't expect anything drastically new" - has anything new really happened with the series since Smash 64 outside of new characters? They add a mode here and there, but the basics haven't changed at all.
They are most certainly not making significant changes to most movesets, many characters have identical movesets to Smash 4, some having one or two new moves at the most, and a very small number getting somewhat more substantial tweaks. New assist trophies, items, and stages, hell, even new characters, are all things that could have very easily just been added in DLC, I don't consider that kind of content to be anything that defines a "new" game.
The changes from game to game - in terms of actual gameplay options - are fairly significant. Shit, the entire gameplay philosophy fundamentally changed from game to game, with Melee being far faster and with an amount of hitstun that actually lends itself to real combo strings, and Brawl completely rejecting all of that. Smash 4 being a weird middle ground.
Ultimate looks like it has a handful of gameplay reversions (directional air dodges and it's looking like some sort of landing lag cancelling, but not full blown L-Cancelling) but definitely hews closer to its predecessor title than any other game before it.
It's not quite a port, but like I said it's way closer to a port than it is a full blown new game.
I think Nintendo's devs just wrote such a good, extensible engine for Smash 4 that there was no need to rewrite it. It's the apex of software design - to do such a good job that when you want to add new functionality, you don't have to start over with a new engine.
Exactly this. Reinventing the wheel for this game simply to prove that it's all new would have been foolish. Gone are the days where every sequel feels like a huge leap over the previous game because the graphics and polish had to improve by an order of magnitude. Y'all better get used to sequels that look and feel pretty much the same as their predecessors from 5 years ago, because we're getting there now.
The fact that the core fundamentals of the game came from Smash 4 is why they were able to focus so much on the roster. If they had to start from scratch like before, they would have cut a bunch of characters and stages out of necessity.
+5
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
I don't consider it a major jump that Smash/Melee/Brawl/4 were. It's still a "new" game, but at the same time it feels like a souped up version of 4, but with a bunch of additions and improvements.
What it really reminds me of is that one Mortal Kombat game that I think came out sometime after 3 or something? Where it was 3's engine, but every character that had ever been in the series up to that point.
Basically I don't feel like I'm double dipping, but at the same time they did say "Don't expect anything drastically new".
I dunno. They are making significant changes to most movesets, adding new features, new assist trophies, items, stages, etc. In terms of "Don't expect anything drastically new" - has anything new really happened with the series since Smash 64 outside of new characters? They add a mode here and there, but the basics haven't changed at all.
They are most certainly not making significant changes to most movesets, many characters have identical movesets to Smash 4, some having one or two new moves at the most, and a very small number getting somewhat more substantial tweaks. New assist trophies, items, and stages are all things that could have very easily just been added in DLC, I don't consider that kind of content to be anything that defines a "new" game.
The changes from game to game - in terms of actual gameplay options - are fairly significant. Shit, the entire gameplay philosophy fundamentally changed from game to game, with Melee being far faster and with an amount of hitstun that actually lends itself to real combo strings, and Brawl completely rejecting all of that. Smash 4 being a weird middle ground.
Ultimate looks like it has a handful of gameplay reversions (directional air dodges and it's looking like some sort of landing lag cancelling, but not full blown L-Cancelling) but definitely hews closer to its predecessor title than any other game before it.
It's not quite a port, but like I said it's way closer to a port than it is a full blown new game.
A lot of final smashes are changing, that's a pretty significant moveset change. I suspect the speed and power of most moves is also going to be different. I've heard anecdotal evidence of a lot of other little changes too that were not specifically called out (ex: Kirby's dash from Smash 64 coming back mentioned above)
If you are fiddling with the fundamental systems of the game, it's not a port. Or maybe more specifically, Nintendo is flat out saying it's not a port, so....
LegacyStuck Somewhere In CyberspaceThe Grid(Seattle)Registered User, ClubPAregular
So...theres a Linkle echo character, right?
Right...?
Can we get the chemicals in. 'Cause anything's better than this.
+2
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SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
I'd probably re-buy a straight port of Smash 4 on the Switch, since the 3DS/WiiU didn't work out too well for me for logistical reasons. I'm a Melee person but Smash 4 was nice.
All the changes I've seen so far seem good and I like them, so I'm happy.
If you are fiddling with the fundamental systems of the game, it's not a port. Or maybe more specifically, Nintendo is flat out saying it's not a port, so....
Nintendo says a lot of things. They're never going to outright admit that their big fall game is a port.
So I'm guessing any kind of significant single player content is out of the question. Anyone heard anything about that?
Why? We didn't hear about single-player stuff in the previous Smashes until close before they came out.
Mainly because this is an enhanced port. I’m not surprised, after all I predicted it when they first announced Smash for Switch. Too soon for a truly new game. With every little change they discussed it would have made a lot of sense to mention single player were it a thing.
It's not though? It's a new game...
Would you like to buy a bridge?
I has more new content and changes than Hyrule Warriors Definitive Edition or Tropical Freeze Funky Edition but it's clearly built on the Wii U game. That's not a bad thing, but when Sakurai felt the need to throw in the "don't expect many new characters" he was clearly tempering our expectations. It is what it is.
I mean, Majora's Mask was built on the Ocarina of Time engine.... would you say that wasn't a new game?
The games you cited are *literally* the same game with nicer visuals and like one or two new things added. There are *waaaaaay* more changes to this game than that. I feel like he said "Don't expect many new characters" because there's like freaking 65 of them in there already and the game has to come out eventually...
That argument doesn't hold up. Did Majoras Mask include all the content from Ocarina of Time? This is more in line with Super Mario 64 DS as far as balance of previous/updated content on a port.
this contains the content from all the smash games
if you're arguing content wise, nearly every sports and fighting game is a port of a previous version. so what if the same engine is used? a massive amount of the game is as different as a fighting game based off of 5 other fighting games can be
The sports/fighting game analogy is pretty spot on. This is Super Street Fighter 2. Gameplay tweaks, new stages, new characters, but it's not Street Figher 3. Like I said, not necessarily a bad thing. I'd much rather play SSF2 over SF3.
I mean 4 got a lot of stuff right with the underlying speed of the game. Melee necessitated a large change because it was seen as inaccessible to newer players, and Brawl needed one because it went so far in that direction that it made it hard for people to enjoy once they got over that hump of learning the game. Smash 4 really hit a nice balance between the two, so you're not going to get a dramatic overhaul this time. It's going to focus on smaller flaws like the game rewarding defense too much.
If Smash Ultimate is an enhanced edition of Smash 4, then Street Fighter 5 is an enhanced edition of Street Fighter 4. Sure, they added those V-Trigger things and tweaked all the character parameters, but the returning characters have moves that pretty much all do the same things, so it's fundamentally the same game, just better.
... nah.
They gave a huge number of the veterans entirely new models (e.g. Link, e.g. Zelda, e.g. Fox, e.g. Wolf,). Most of the attacks have been completely re-animated (note that Mario's cape move now has him swinging it off his shoulder instead of straight slapping the enemy with it and have different uses/effects (e.g. Marth's Dancing Blade linking faster, e.g. ). They gave returning characters entirely new moves (Ganondorf's smashes are now sword-based, e.g. Peach having new throws involving Toad, e.g. Link having remote-detonated bombs, e.g. DeDeDe can now inhale and spit out his Gordos). They added the usual complement of new items. They normalized the Final Smashes to have similar damage profiles and execution times. The game auto-balances the damage ratios to the number of players on the field. You lose i-frames for spamming dodges. Your air-dodge is a movement skill again, like it was in Melee (that is, three games ago). And, yes, they added entirely new characters, who we haven't heard the last of yet.
No individual change feels that significant, but in the aggregate, they're huge. This is a new Smash Brothers.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
Even though we know almost all of the characters, we know very little about the actual game as a whole. During the Treehouse segments, they were very careful not to show any of the menus and other modes.
Unreal Engine is in the credits at the end of the direct after Final Fantasy, but it's not after the cut out smash video so false alarm. I guess Unreal Engine's just there because fortnight.
Posts
If they've been working on this since before the last Smash came out as the job listings suggest, they'd have plenty of time to put in Smash Run even if it is an enhanced port.
What it really reminds me of is that one Mortal Kombat game that I think came out sometime after 3 or something? Where it was 3's engine, but every character that had ever been in the series up to that point.
Basically I don't feel like I'm double dipping, but at the same time they did say "Don't expect anything drastically new".
I dunno. They are making significant changes to most movesets, adding new features, new assist trophies, items, stages, etc. In terms of "Don't expect anything drastically new" - has anything new really happened with the series since Smash 64 outside of new characters? They add a mode here and there, but the basics haven't changed at all.
Counterpoint: Castlevania Grimoire of Souls is a mobile gacha
Honestly I totally disagree, this is a full new game. It just happens that the theme of this new game is bringing back tons of content from all old Smash games, not just Smash 4. They've made a ton of changes to all the characters and many game system updates. I see this as setting a new baseline for what Smash is from now on.
Still seems like 3.
Would you like to buy a bridge?
I has more new content and changes than Hyrule Warriors Definitive Edition or Tropical Freeze Funky Edition but it's clearly built on the Wii U game. That's not a bad thing, but when Sakurai felt the need to throw in the "don't expect many new characters" he was clearly tempering our expectations. It is what it is.
I mean, Majora's Mask was built on the Ocarina of Time engine.... would you say that wasn't a new game?
The games you cited are *literally* the same game with nicer visuals and like one or two new things added. There are *waaaaaay* more changes to this game than that. I feel like he said "Don't expect many new characters" because there's like freaking 65 of them in there already and the game has to come out eventually...
I guess a better example would be that I consider the previous games as new houses. While this game feels like it's in 4's house, but they seriously redecorated, got some new furniture while moving around the old stuff, knocked out the south wall and built an addition... that sort of thing.
Game Informer interview with Nintendo about the question about Smash Ultimate being a port, Sakurai's health/involvement, etc.
That argument doesn't hold up. Did Majoras Mask include all the content from Ocarina of Time? This is more in line with Super Mario 64 DS as far as balance of previous/updated content on a port.
Also Metroid is a girl
Damn it liberal America
I mean, it kind of did. The majority of the monsters and npcs were literally ripped out of Ocarina of Time and remixed.
Pokemon Trainer is now a girl.
It's social justice gone mad I tells ya.
They are most certainly not making significant changes to most movesets, many characters have identical movesets to Smash 4, some having one or two new moves at the most, and a very small number getting somewhat more substantial tweaks. New assist trophies, items, and stages, hell, even new characters, are all things that could have very easily just been added in DLC, I don't consider that kind of content to be anything that defines a "new" game.
The changes from game to game - in terms of actual gameplay options - are fairly significant. Shit, the entire gameplay philosophy fundamentally changed from game to game, with Melee being far faster and with an amount of hitstun that actually lends itself to real combo strings, and Brawl completely rejecting all of that. Smash 4 being a weird middle ground.
Ultimate looks like it has a handful of gameplay reversions (directional air dodges and it's looking like some sort of landing lag cancelling, but not full blown L-Cancelling) but definitely hews closer to its predecessor title than any other game before it.
It's not quite a port, but like I said it's way closer to a port than it is a full blown new game.
Can Metroid crawl though?
Exactly this. Reinventing the wheel for this game simply to prove that it's all new would have been foolish. Gone are the days where every sequel feels like a huge leap over the previous game because the graphics and polish had to improve by an order of magnitude. Y'all better get used to sequels that look and feel pretty much the same as their predecessors from 5 years ago, because we're getting there now.
The fact that the core fundamentals of the game came from Smash 4 is why they were able to focus so much on the roster. If they had to start from scratch like before, they would have cut a bunch of characters and stages out of necessity.
A lot of final smashes are changing, that's a pretty significant moveset change. I suspect the speed and power of most moves is also going to be different. I've heard anecdotal evidence of a lot of other little changes too that were not specifically called out (ex: Kirby's dash from Smash 64 coming back mentioned above)
Basically, I agree with their reasoning here:
If you are fiddling with the fundamental systems of the game, it's not a port. Or maybe more specifically, Nintendo is flat out saying it's not a port, so....
Right...?
All the changes I've seen so far seem good and I like them, so I'm happy.
Nintendo says a lot of things. They're never going to outright admit that their big fall game is a port.
this contains the content from all the smash games
if you're arguing content wise, nearly every sports and fighting game is a port of a previous version. so what if the same engine is used? a massive amount of the game is as different as a fighting game based off of 5 other fighting games can be
And they also chucked in changes like air dodge directions and shield release parries and Battelfield Omega stages.
I feel like a lot has changed.
They junked the custom move system, which does sadden me.
... nah.
They gave a huge number of the veterans entirely new models (e.g. Link, e.g. Zelda, e.g. Fox, e.g. Wolf,). Most of the attacks have been completely re-animated (note that Mario's cape move now has him swinging it off his shoulder instead of straight slapping the enemy with it and have different uses/effects (e.g. Marth's Dancing Blade linking faster, e.g. ). They gave returning characters entirely new moves (Ganondorf's smashes are now sword-based, e.g. Peach having new throws involving Toad, e.g. Link having remote-detonated bombs, e.g. DeDeDe can now inhale and spit out his Gordos). They added the usual complement of new items. They normalized the Final Smashes to have similar damage profiles and execution times. The game auto-balances the damage ratios to the number of players on the field. You lose i-frames for spamming dodges. Your air-dodge is a movement skill again, like it was in Melee (that is, three games ago). And, yes, they added entirely new characters, who we haven't heard the last of yet.
No individual change feels that significant, but in the aggregate, they're huge. This is a new Smash Brothers.
Brawl: Removed Pichu, thus new game
4: No change to Pichu. Port?
Ultimate: Added Pichu. New game.
Anyway the Splatoon championship is over, so the Smash tourney is up next: