the line between port and new game is vague, it's waaay less of a straight port than mario kart switch was but still somehow doesn't quite feel like a whole new version.
It is basically a port, with a few new features to the same Smash 4 engine and then character updates. Far closer to a port than it is a new game.
... Does this actually matter?
It does not, but it's not like the same can't be said about uh...any topic of discussion relevant to this or any other video game, if you're trying hard to be a goose about it.
The point is that trying to start some "this is just a port" thing is two things:
1) cynical
2) not true
They have actual new mechanics at play in this, there's more stage design / options going on, there's more characters... it's a new game. It's not an HD up res project. It's the next iteration.
I don't think anyone involved in this discussion in this thread has gone so far as to say it's "just a port." I've said it basically is, and more accurately described it as closer to a port than it is a new game. Which I still maintain.
I acknowledge that it's a credible argument, you can disagree without trying to invalidate the entire thing. I'm not attacking everyone on the other side of this as naive and wrong, you can just participate in the discussion or not.
You may not have, but the other person vehemently defending the port status asked someone that said it was a new game if they'd like to buy a bridge - things like that are uncalled for and literally insulting.
"Vehemently" is such an exaggeration. As for the bridge thing, that's a common phrase. Nothing was meant by it. If @Warlock82 or @wunderbar were insulted by it then they have my apologies.
Well, the tournament's over, and Sakurai doesn't seem to have segued into a Simon Belmont trailer, so it seems the air is clear to update the thread on The First (and Last) Annual Smash 5 Roster Prediction Game Run By Kupi! Submissions are now closed, and with the release date set, we now know that scoring can be tallied on December 7th of this year. But what we can look at now is how the predictions shook out! I've compiled all of the submissions by everyone in order of confidence for each individual character. I'm posting the stats publicly 1) so we can slap our foreheads and laugh at ourselves, and 2) so y'all can confirm I haven't made any tabulation errors (I had to copy everything over manually because the format I chose for these responses made Google Forms's CSV converter spit out garbage.
NEWCOMERS
Inkling
- BlueBlue (5)
- Zek (5)
- Zombie Hero (5)
- Cruor (5)
- Kupi (5)
- ... I don't know if I ought to be merciful and give the Inklings to the people who didn't submit them manually...
Fire Emblem Three Houses's Lord
- T-Danger (3)
- Kupi (1)
Paper Mario
- Kupi (3)
- Maz- (3)
Ganon
- Kupi (3)
King K. Rool
- Nitsua (5)
- Kupi (1)
Takamaru
- Kupi (2)
Simon Belmont
- Kupi (1)
Chibi-Robo
- Kupi (2)
Celica
- Kupi (1)
Sukapon
- Kupi (2)
Gen 8 Pokemon
- Kupi (2)
Crash
- Kizmitt (4)
Dr. Coyle
- Kizmitt (1)
Excite Bike
- Kizmitt (2)
Dixie Kong
- Kizmitt (3)
Eevee
- Kizmitt (2)
Sora
- Nitsua (3)
Rabbid
- Nitsua (2)
Rayman
- Nitsua (4)
CUTS (POINT LOSS ZONE)
Dark Pit
- Zek (3)
- T-Danger (2)
- Kupi (2)
Roy
- Zek (3)
Mewtwo
- Zek (3)
Corrin
- Cruor (5)
- Zek (1)
Doctor Mario
- Cruor (3)
Mii Fighters
- T-Danger (2)
Lucina
- T-Danger (1)
MICROPREDICTIONS
BlueBlue:
None
Zek:
Game will have a new subtitle (not "Super Smash Bros for Switch")
Smash Tour is removed
At least one of Link's B moves will be replaced with a BotW item
Mario's FLUDD will be replaced
Zombie Hero:
Cappy will be represented by a new item
There will be a BotW stage where Kass plays music in background
Smash run will return, board game gone
Peach, Mario, and Bowser will have wedding alternate costume
At least half of the stages will be retreads from Wii U/3DS
A Mario odyssey stage that will feature the T-Rex as a stage hazard
Arms Stage
Splatoon Stage
Alternative Moves Stay in, but more predictable to collect (not random)
Cruor:
None
T-Danger:
Ridley will appear in a new. unique form (similar to Giga Bowser) which makes him more eligible for Smash.
Instead of clones, characters will now have unique skins which turn them into different but similar characters, similar to Olimar and Alph. Dark Pit, Lucina and Dr Mario will reappear as such skins.
Single player modes will include an Adventure Mode featuring levels based on the various Nintendo franchises, similar to Melee's Adventure mode.
Older characters such as Mario, Link, Kirby etc will receive new moves based on their most recent games.
Costumes/skins for characters will be unlockable or DLC.
Stages will have the option to toggle hazards off, and will come in Omega (Final Destination style) and Alpha (Battlefield style) forms
Kupi:
There will be an Adventure Mode similar to Melee's.
Smash Run will be a single-player mode.
Alph will be split off to a separate character from Olimar.
Zelda will be re-designed to employ the Champion Powers.
Link will be re-designed with B-moves taken from his Breath of the Wild incarnation.
Isaac from Golden Sun will return... as an Assist Trophy.
Maz-:
Custom moves will be cut entirely
There won't be a new singleplayer-focused mode á la Subspace Emissary or Adventure Mode
Kizmitt:
Headlok as item
Funky Kong as alternate costume for Donkey Kong
Nia assist trophy
Nitsua:
The return of Adventure mode
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
0
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KasynI'm not saying I don't like our chances.She called me the master.Registered Userregular
I don’t mind competitive play in Smash, but I’d like that competitive play to also be fairly accessible to those who are interested.
Wavedashing is not some big mechanical barrier to entry that prevents Melee from being accessible to prospective competitive players. If anything, the hardware requirements (a CRTV and a four generation old console, even if it does have a rather convenient handle) and limitations of its online play are the big factor there.
I agree that no wavedashing is a good thing, though, I'm really pleased with where the game went in Smash 4 and most of the changes in Ultimate look sensible so far.
I don’t mind competitive play in Smash, but I’d like that competitive play to also be fairly accessible to those who are interested.
Wavedashing is not some big mechanical barrier to entry that prevents Melee from being accessible to prospective competitive players. If anything, the hardware requirements (a CRTV and a four generation old console, even if it does have a rather convenient handle) and limitations of its online play are the big factor there.
I agree that no wavedashing is a good thing, though, I'm really pleased with where the game went in Smash 4 and most of the changes in Ultimate look sensible so far.
Mechanical barrier or not, a lot of the competitive Melee I've seen is Wavedashing: The Game, and it's trash.
I don’t mind competitive play in Smash, but I’d like that competitive play to also be fairly accessible to those who are interested.
Wavedashing is not some big mechanical barrier to entry that prevents Melee from being accessible to prospective competitive players. If anything, the hardware requirements (a CRTV and a four generation old console, even if it does have a rather convenient handle) and limitations of its online play are the big factor there.
I agree that no wavedashing is a good thing, though, I'm really pleased with where the game went in Smash 4 and most of the changes in Ultimate look sensible so far.
Mechanical barrier or not, a lot of the competitive Melee I've seen is Wavedashing: The Game, and it's trash.
When you don't actually have enough of a grasp of the game to understand what's going on onscreen, and only see a mechanic without context, of course it's going to look like trash to you. Melee has stood up as a competitive fighting game for an extremely long time now, you're definitely in a sad minority if you're being proudly ignorant and dismissive of its competitive credentials in 2018.
I don’t mind competitive play in Smash, but I’d like that competitive play to also be fairly accessible to those who are interested.
Wavedashing is not some big mechanical barrier to entry that prevents Melee from being accessible to prospective competitive players. If anything, the hardware requirements (a CRTV and a four generation old console, even if it does have a rather convenient handle) and limitations of its online play are the big factor there.
I agree that no wavedashing is a good thing, though, I'm really pleased with where the game went in Smash 4 and most of the changes in Ultimate look sensible so far.
Mechanical barrier or not, a lot of the competitive Melee I've seen is Wavedashing: The Game, and it's trash.
When you don't actually have enough of a grasp of the game to understand what's going on onscreen, and only see a mechanic without context, of course it's going to look like trash to you. Melee has stood up as a competitive fighting game for an extremely long time now, you're definitely in a sad minority if you're being proudly ignorant and dismissive of its competitive credentials in 2018.
Okay.
Maybe "trash" was harsh, but I absolutely do not enjoy it. It's not a matter of not understanding it.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I can’t wave Dash at all in melee (it’s why I stayed a Jiggs main) but I super recognize how important it is to that games longevity and uniqueness.
The game would just be dominated by Jiggs and Sheik without wavedash. But Sheik has a useless wavedash compared to Marth and the space animals, and the incredible amount of sudden mobility is a HUGE factor in the game.
If they implemented it in a way that wasn’t fucking insane to perform for someone with broken hands then I would love its inclusion.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I did once come across a controller that had been somehow modified to do a wave dash if you just hammered the L and R buttons alternatively and just held the appropriate direction. I wish I had that controller, even if modded controllers are banned, because of how insane it made playing the game.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
bayo's witch time seems to have moved from her down b to her final smash
Witch Time was always part of both. The down B is a counter move that puts the Witch Time effect on the enemy that hits her. The Final Smash instantly puts Witch Time on everyone, and then feeds them to Gomorrah if Bayo does enough damage to them when they're slowed.
then, it seems to have been removed from her counter
Really?
What is her down b doing now, then?
nevermind it's actually that I'm dumb - thought it was replaced with bat within since they didn't seem to be going for the counter during matches
Pretty happy about no wavedashing, especially given that you can still use directional airdodges for movement onto platforms. That's a better compromise than what I imagined. Now just fix Bayonetta; her current state in the game is simply embarrassing.
Also still wondering about ledge mechanics in this game. I didn't see anyone going for 2-frame edgeguards or trumps. Is that mechanic still a thing? Can you still potentially get a free hit if you trump someone? Do you still stop getting invincibility after the first time you grab the edge? A lot of questions.
Pretty happy about no wavedashing, especially given that you can still use directional airdodges for movement onto platforms. That's a better compromise than what I imagined. Now just fix Bayonetta; her current state in the game is simply embarrassing.
Also still wondering about ledge mechanics in this game. I didn't see anyone going for 2-frame edgeguards or trumps. Is that mechanic still a thing? Can you still potentially get a free hit if you trump someone? Do you still stop getting invincibility after the first time you grab the edge? A lot of questions.
Ledge trumping reportedly still a thing, but the generous range from which you could magnet hands to the ledge has supposedly been reined in a bit. Both good decisions, IMO, if true.
GameXplain being GameXplain, they've already got the 65(!) character trailers at the Smash site concatenated into one big trailer. Saves you some clicks.
I feel like this whole super in depth smash direct was a reaction to gamexplain and similar channels.
Oh you like to analyze every little detail? Well here you go. Choke on this
I think Ultimate would feel less like a port of Smash 4 if they just changed up the presentation a bit. Although it could be that Brawl's aesthetic was an aberration that made Melee and Smash 4 look more different than they actually were.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoHKKEx-2L4
Genesis, the premier Smash tournament series, will host Genesis 6 on Feb 1st. This will likely be Ultimate's first large tournament (and a supermajor at that), less than two months after launch. It'll be fun to watch such a large tournament for a fresh game.
64 and Melee will also be present. Unsurprisingly, no SSB4. I figure the last SSB4 major will be GameTyrant Expo in November.
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
Still two more days of Nintendo Treehouse Live to drop something.
Yeah but I find it very unlikely. Today was the day everyone was going to be watching so if they aren't going to do a new reveal here, they probably won't do one. Any e3 treehouse reveals from here on are probably going to be like Sushi Strikers/Ever Oasis level stuff. Like, maybe a new game that wasn't hype enough for the presentation. All Smash character reveals do not fit the "not hype" catagory :P
Watched the big smash trailer. Pretty cool stuff. This character roster is insanely huge. It's pretty cool to see them bring all the old chars back, although something like Pichu seems pointless. It was just Pikachu, but way worse whereas Dr. Mario and Ganondorf played a bit differently from their counterparts, in my opinion. Maybe more changes are in store. It's gonna be fun playing this one, although it makes me kinda feel like I shouldn't have bought all the WiiU DLC chars, but whatever.
This port vs. new game talk, let me see if i can articulate this: it's a new game in my eyes. A port, in my opinion, means pretty much no mechanical changes to how the game is and maybe have some bonus content thrown in and have the existing game running on a new platform. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, for example, I would call a port. The Street Fighter 2 games are all pretty different too. Mechanics changed, moves completely changed, new moves added, move properties changed, etc. Smash Ultimate sounds like a similar thing, they're changing quite a bit it seems with regards to moves and dodging and whatever other mechanics. These changes add up to make a new and probably a bit different game from the previous ones.
Watched the big smash trailer. Pretty cool stuff. This character roster is insanely huge. It's pretty cool to see them bring all the old chars back, although something like Pichu seems pointless. It was just Pikachu, but way worse whereas Dr. Mario and Ganondorf played a bit differently from their counterparts, in my opinion. Maybe more changes are in store. It's gonna be fun playing this one, although it makes me kinda feel like I shouldn't have bought all the WiiU DLC chars, but whatever.
This port vs. new game talk, let me see if i can articulate this: it's a new game in my eyes. A port, in my opinion, means pretty much no mechanical changes to how the game is and maybe have some bonus content thrown in and have the existing game running on a new platform. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, for example, I would call a port. The Street Fighter 2 games are all pretty different too. Mechanics changed, moves completely changed, new moves added, move properties changed, etc. Smash Ultimate sounds like a similar thing, they're changing quite a bit it seems with regards to moves and dodging and whatever other mechanics. These changes add up to make a new and probably a bit different game from the previous ones.
Yeah, it's why people have brought up what constitutes a new game when it comes to fighting games. It's not as big a difference in a lot of cases.
But Pichu can stay. Yes, he's objectively terrible. But so what? It wouldn't be the first time a fighting game had a deliberately bad character.
Still two more days of Nintendo Treehouse Live to drop something.
Yeah but I find it very unlikely. Today was the day everyone was going to be watching so if they aren't going to do a new reveal here, they probably won't do one. Any e3 treehouse reveals from here on are probably going to be like Sushi Strikers/Ever Oasis level stuff. Like, maybe a new game that wasn't hype enough for the presentation. All Smash character reveals do not fit the "not hype" catagory :P
Remember that the Wii Fit trainer was announced at some random small thing a day or two after the presentation. Something very similar could happen with a reveal for this game.
Still two more days of Nintendo Treehouse Live to drop something.
Yeah but I find it very unlikely. Today was the day everyone was going to be watching so if they aren't going to do a new reveal here, they probably won't do one. Any e3 treehouse reveals from here on are probably going to be like Sushi Strikers/Ever Oasis level stuff. Like, maybe a new game that wasn't hype enough for the presentation. All Smash character reveals do not fit the "not hype" catagory :P
Remember that the Wii Fit trainer was announced at some random small thing a day or two after the presentation. Something very similar could happen with a reveal for this game.
I thought Wii Fit Trainer was announced almost immediately after the presentation.
The only one I can think of kind of like that was Pac Man at that random press-only event mid-show
Posts
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
I don’t mind competitive play in Smash, but I’d like that competitive play to also be fairly accessible to those who are interested.
"Vehemently" is such an exaggeration. As for the bridge thing, that's a common phrase. Nothing was meant by it. If @Warlock82 or @wunderbar were insulted by it then they have my apologies.
Still two more days of Nintendo Treehouse Live to drop something.
NEWCOMERS
- BlueBlue (5)
- Zek (5)
- Zombie Hero (5)
- Cruor (5)
- Kupi (5)
- ... I don't know if I ought to be merciful and give the Inklings to the people who didn't submit them manually...
Ice Climbers
- BlueBlue (5)
- Zek (5)
- Cruor (5)
- T-Danger (5)
- Kupi (5)
- Maz- (5)
- Zombie Hero (2)
Wolf
- BlueBlue (5)
- Cruor (5)
- T-Danger (4)
- Kupi (3)
- Zombie Hero (1)
Spring Man
- BlueBlue (5)
- Zek (5)
- Cruor (5)
- T-Danger (4)
- Kupi (4)
- Maz- (4)
Rex
- BlueBlue (5)
- Maz- (5)
- T-Danger (4)
- Rex (4)
Pyra
- BlueBlue (5)
- T-Danger (4)
- Zombie Hero (2)
Rex and Pyra
- T-Danger (4)
Chorus Kids
- BlueBlue (5)
Decidueye
- BlueBlue (5)
- T-Danger (5)
- Kupi (4)
- Maz- (4)
- Cruor (2)
Wonder Red
- BlueBlue (5)
- Kupi (2)
Midna
- BlueBlue (5)
Captain Toad
- Cruor (5)
- Zek (3)
Ridley
- Kizmitt (5)
- T-Danger (4)
- Maz- (3)
- Zek (2)
- Kupi (2)
Isaac
- Cruor (3)
- Zek (1)
Dillon
- Zek (1)
ARMS Character
- Zombie Hero (1)
Urbosa
- Cruor (2)
- Zombie Hero (1)
Mipha
- Zombie Hero (1)
Revali
- Zombie Hero (1)
Daruk
- Zombie Hero (1)
Octoling
- T-Danger (2)
- Zombie Hero (1)
Geno
- Cruor (1)
Ganondorf (Alt)
- Cruor (3)
Bomberman
- Cruor (2)
King K. Rool
- Cruor (2)
- T-Danger (2)
Waluigi
- Cruor (5)
- T-Danger (1)
- Nitsua (1)
Takamaru
- Cruor (3)
Impa
- Cruor (3)
Shovel Knight
- T-Danger (4)
- Maz- (2)
Linkle
- T-Danger (3)
Sami
- T-Danger (2)
Bald Bull
- T-Danger (2)
Dark Samus
- T-Danger (1)
Viewtiful Joe
- T-Danger (1)
Tsubasa Oribe
- T-Danger (1)
Fire Emblem Three Houses's Lord
- T-Danger (3)
- Kupi (1)
Paper Mario
- Kupi (3)
- Maz- (3)
Ganon
- Kupi (3)
King K. Rool
- Nitsua (5)
- Kupi (1)
Takamaru
- Kupi (2)
Simon Belmont
- Kupi (1)
Chibi-Robo
- Kupi (2)
Celica
- Kupi (1)
Sukapon
- Kupi (2)
Gen 8 Pokemon
- Kupi (2)
Crash
- Kizmitt (4)
Dr. Coyle
- Kizmitt (1)
Excite Bike
- Kizmitt (2)
Dixie Kong
- Kizmitt (3)
Eevee
- Kizmitt (2)
Sora
- Nitsua (3)
Rabbid
- Nitsua (2)
Rayman
- Nitsua (4)
CUTS (POINT LOSS ZONE)
- Zek (3)
- T-Danger (2)
- Kupi (2)
Roy
- Zek (3)
Mewtwo
- Zek (3)
Corrin
- Cruor (5)
- Zek (1)
Doctor Mario
- Cruor (3)
Mii Fighters
- T-Danger (2)
Lucina
- T-Danger (1)
MICROPREDICTIONS
None
Zek:
Game will have a new subtitle (not "Super Smash Bros for Switch")
Smash Tour is removed
At least one of Link's B moves will be replaced with a BotW item
Mario's FLUDD will be replaced
Zombie Hero:
Cappy will be represented by a new item
There will be a BotW stage where Kass plays music in background
Smash run will return, board game gone
Peach, Mario, and Bowser will have wedding alternate costume
At least half of the stages will be retreads from Wii U/3DS
A Mario odyssey stage that will feature the T-Rex as a stage hazard
Arms Stage
Splatoon Stage
Alternative Moves Stay in, but more predictable to collect (not random)
Cruor:
None
T-Danger:
Ridley will appear in a new. unique form (similar to Giga Bowser) which makes him more eligible for Smash.
Instead of clones, characters will now have unique skins which turn them into different but similar characters, similar to Olimar and Alph. Dark Pit, Lucina and Dr Mario will reappear as such skins.
Single player modes will include an Adventure Mode featuring levels based on the various Nintendo franchises, similar to Melee's Adventure mode.
Older characters such as Mario, Link, Kirby etc will receive new moves based on their most recent games.
Costumes/skins for characters will be unlockable or DLC.
Stages will have the option to toggle hazards off, and will come in Omega (Final Destination style) and Alpha (Battlefield style) forms
Kupi:
There will be an Adventure Mode similar to Melee's.
Smash Run will be a single-player mode.
Alph will be split off to a separate character from Olimar.
Zelda will be re-designed to employ the Champion Powers.
Link will be re-designed with B-moves taken from his Breath of the Wild incarnation.
Isaac from Golden Sun will return... as an Assist Trophy.
Maz-:
Custom moves will be cut entirely
There won't be a new singleplayer-focused mode á la Subspace Emissary or Adventure Mode
Kizmitt:
Headlok as item
Funky Kong as alternate costume for Donkey Kong
Nia assist trophy
Nitsua:
The return of Adventure mode
Wavedashing is not some big mechanical barrier to entry that prevents Melee from being accessible to prospective competitive players. If anything, the hardware requirements (a CRTV and a four generation old console, even if it does have a rather convenient handle) and limitations of its online play are the big factor there.
I agree that no wavedashing is a good thing, though, I'm really pleased with where the game went in Smash 4 and most of the changes in Ultimate look sensible so far.
Mechanical barrier or not, a lot of the competitive Melee I've seen is Wavedashing: The Game, and it's trash.
Steam: TimIsOnSteam
Battle.net: TimIsOnBnet#1745
Switch: SW-7012-4788-7410
PSN: TimIsOnTheNet
When you don't actually have enough of a grasp of the game to understand what's going on onscreen, and only see a mechanic without context, of course it's going to look like trash to you. Melee has stood up as a competitive fighting game for an extremely long time now, you're definitely in a sad minority if you're being proudly ignorant and dismissive of its competitive credentials in 2018.
Okay.
Maybe "trash" was harsh, but I absolutely do not enjoy it. It's not a matter of not understanding it.
Steam: TimIsOnSteam
Battle.net: TimIsOnBnet#1745
Switch: SW-7012-4788-7410
PSN: TimIsOnTheNet
The game would just be dominated by Jiggs and Sheik without wavedash. But Sheik has a useless wavedash compared to Marth and the space animals, and the incredible amount of sudden mobility is a HUGE factor in the game.
If they implemented it in a way that wasn’t fucking insane to perform for someone with broken hands then I would love its inclusion.
Also still wondering about ledge mechanics in this game. I didn't see anyone going for 2-frame edgeguards or trumps. Is that mechanic still a thing? Can you still potentially get a free hit if you trump someone? Do you still stop getting invincibility after the first time you grab the edge? A lot of questions.
special
Ledge trumping reportedly still a thing, but the generous range from which you could magnet hands to the ledge has supposedly been reined in a bit. Both good decisions, IMO, if true.
Oh you like to analyze every little detail? Well here you go. Choke on this
Does anyone know about the c-stick cancelling your air movement
Has anyone said anything
Genesis, the premier Smash tournament series, will host Genesis 6 on Feb 1st. This will likely be Ultimate's first large tournament (and a supermajor at that), less than two months after launch. It'll be fun to watch such a large tournament for a fresh game.
64 and Melee will also be present. Unsurprisingly, no SSB4. I figure the last SSB4 major will be GameTyrant Expo in November.
Yeah but I find it very unlikely. Today was the day everyone was going to be watching so if they aren't going to do a new reveal here, they probably won't do one. Any e3 treehouse reveals from here on are probably going to be like Sushi Strikers/Ever Oasis level stuff. Like, maybe a new game that wasn't hype enough for the presentation. All Smash character reveals do not fit the "not hype" catagory :P
Not surprising if it's BOTW Link. Curious if he just grabs or what now.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
Maybe he uses the Sheikah Slate Magnesis?
Stasis would be fun. He stops time, then pummels you, then hsi throw is just him whacking you to make the arrow point in one direction.
This port vs. new game talk, let me see if i can articulate this: it's a new game in my eyes. A port, in my opinion, means pretty much no mechanical changes to how the game is and maybe have some bonus content thrown in and have the existing game running on a new platform. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, for example, I would call a port. The Street Fighter 2 games are all pretty different too. Mechanics changed, moves completely changed, new moves added, move properties changed, etc. Smash Ultimate sounds like a similar thing, they're changing quite a bit it seems with regards to moves and dodging and whatever other mechanics. These changes add up to make a new and probably a bit different game from the previous ones.
Yeah, it's why people have brought up what constitutes a new game when it comes to fighting games. It's not as big a difference in a lot of cases.
But Pichu can stay. Yes, he's objectively terrible. But so what? It wouldn't be the first time a fighting game had a deliberately bad character.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
Remember that the Wii Fit trainer was announced at some random small thing a day or two after the presentation. Something very similar could happen with a reveal for this game.
Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
PSN - Brainiac_8
Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/id/BRAINIAC8/
Add me!
I thought Wii Fit Trainer was announced almost immediately after the presentation.
The only one I can think of kind of like that was Pac Man at that random press-only event mid-show