[WoW] Battle for Azeroth has landed!

195969798100

Posts

  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    So in this Faction War expansion, with our new Faction War zone in Arathi, how did we not end up with some PVP-oriented world quests in there (or anywhere)? That seems like a thing that should have happened.

    BahamutZEROBucketman
  • Slacker1913Slacker1913 Registered User regular
    IDK, I always assumed there were some for the people with Warmode on.

    Eh, I'll get around to it.
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Bobble wrote: »
    So in this Faction War expansion, with our new Faction War zone in Arathi, how did we not end up with some PVP-oriented world quests in there (or anywhere)? That seems like a thing that should have happened.

    There are pvp weekly quests

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    IDK, I always assumed there were some for the people with Warmode on.

    Nope! Really seems like they've decided to actively NOT have PvP world quests this time for some reason. Maybe they decided they didn't like how those worked out in Legion.

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    Jephery wrote: »
    Honestly they should have given BFA another year. They didn't do any iteration on design of systems and whole specs are still waiting to be redesigned. Its pretty clear that the expansion was rushed out the door to meet their goal of faster expansion releases. That BFA is so much smaller in scope than Legion was makes it all more egregious.

    Blizzard used to be a company that, between the choice of pushing back a release and releasing an unpolished game, would push back the release every time. Clearly that company is gone.

    in what sense is it smaller in scope than legion?

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Jephery wrote: »
    Honestly they should have given BFA another year. They didn't do any iteration on design of systems and whole specs are still waiting to be redesigned. Its pretty clear that the expansion was rushed out the door to meet their goal of faster expansion releases. That BFA is so much smaller in scope than Legion was makes it all more egregious.

    Blizzard used to be a company that, between the choice of pushing back a release and releasing an unpolished game, would push back the release every time. Clearly that company is gone.

    in what sense is it smaller in scope than legion?

    Two war campaigns instead of 11 class campaigns. Two boats instead of 11 order halls. Piggy backing on existing Legion systems (WQs, AP) with little change.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
    KamarCorriganXNumiDonnictonShadowhopehippofantSkeith
  • CorriganXCorriganX Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Noice, got a 340 weapon from the emissary on alliance side NA, the horde side gets 600 AP. :P


    edit - Says 600 ap, I got 1000 on turn in.

    CorriganX on
    n1woEHJ.png
    CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    Jephery wrote: »
    Jephery wrote: »
    Honestly they should have given BFA another year. They didn't do any iteration on design of systems and whole specs are still waiting to be redesigned. Its pretty clear that the expansion was rushed out the door to meet their goal of faster expansion releases. That BFA is so much smaller in scope than Legion was makes it all more egregious.

    Blizzard used to be a company that, between the choice of pushing back a release and releasing an unpolished game, would push back the release every time. Clearly that company is gone.

    in what sense is it smaller in scope than legion?

    Two war campaigns instead of 11 class campaigns. Two boats instead of 11 order halls. Piggy backing on existing Legion systems (WQs, AP) with little change.

    oh yeah, class halls and class campaigns, yeah that's fair. War campaign is definitely a big wet fart compared to the sum of all the class campaigns, although it's no worse than the lamer individual ones *coughhuntercough*

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • MillMill Registered User regular
    Enosh20 wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Quick, gotta get the hotfix in before the alliance get their turn.

    horde; emissary weapons, emissary trinkets, a guaranteed 370 before mythic opens and infinite power gearing for as many alts as you have the patience for.

    vs

    700g, 700g, 200 war resources, 700g, 700g, 700g, OFFSPEC WEAPON, 700g, RNG 370 world boss, 700g, hotfix.

    where's my horde-side emissary weapons??
    last I heard alliance was the side getting all of those, I certainly haven't seen one
    EU horde had it
    anyway I really don't understand why they didn't simply do the ilvl hotfix AFTER the alliance warfront was over, that way it would feel fair to both sides

    The argument would have been that the alliance would have had more time to churn max level alts. There is no good solution to this. Probably should have left it as is or a did a tweak where each group got 3-6 characters below 320 because they wouldn't be a drain if they focused on gathering (I'm assuming this is a factor in the change because it would suck to get a 15 people at 290ish).

  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    Jephery wrote: »
    Jephery wrote: »
    Honestly they should have given BFA another year. They didn't do any iteration on design of systems and whole specs are still waiting to be redesigned. Its pretty clear that the expansion was rushed out the door to meet their goal of faster expansion releases. That BFA is so much smaller in scope than Legion was makes it all more egregious.

    Blizzard used to be a company that, between the choice of pushing back a release and releasing an unpolished game, would push back the release every time. Clearly that company is gone.

    in what sense is it smaller in scope than legion?

    Two war campaigns instead of 11 class campaigns. Two boats instead of 11 order halls. Piggy backing on existing Legion systems (WQs, AP) with little change.

    oh yeah, class halls and class campaigns, yeah that's fair. War campaign is definitely a big wet fart compared to the sum of all the class campaigns, although it's no worse than the lamer individual ones *coughhuntercough*

    I have some hopes for the war campaign because it just being one story for each side should be a LOT easier to expand on from big patch to big patch.

    BahamutZERO
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    CorriganX wrote: »
    Noice, got a 340 weapon from the emissary on alliance side NA, the horde side gets 600 AP. :P


    edit - Says 600 ap, I got 1000 on turn in.
    Emissaries always give 400ap on turn-in. If you see 600 in the reward box when looking at the world map, assume it's 1000 total.

    Nobody likes me but that's okay. I'm used to it.
    Arthil
  • CorriganXCorriganX Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    CorriganX wrote: »
    Noice, got a 340 weapon from the emissary on alliance side NA, the horde side gets 600 AP. :P


    edit - Says 600 ap, I got 1000 on turn in.
    Emissaries always give 400ap on turn-in. If you see 600 in the reward box when looking at the world map, assume it's 1000 total.

    the item itself shows 600 ap, the item when turned in shows 1000 ap, even in the tooltip.

    n1woEHJ.png
    CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    They're trying to tell two major stories at once.

    You have the threat of the Old Gods, which is a story that will span multiple patches, and probably cover all of the BfA raid tiers. Uldir is an Old God raid. The Azshara raid will probably be Naga-focused, but since they got their powers and mutation from the Old Gods, it is still definitely an Old God story. And then there's the assumption that N'zoth will be the final boss of the expansion.

    And then the other story is this faction war. And it seems to be completely treading water. It doesn't feel like "war" to me. It feels like a bunch of busywork for Nathanos. I haven't seen the Alliance faction war quests so I cannot comment on if those are any better. But from the horde perspective this faction war feels entirely irrelevant and also entirely not-a-war.

    Why are we fighting over Arathi? Why did the Alliance rebuild Stromgarde? Why did the Horde build a random base out there right across the street from Stromgarde when the Horde already had a base on the other side of the zone (Hammerfall)? Why is the Horde base haunted by ghosts? It seems like it isn't even a real base. It's a brand new base with a serious ghost problem.

    Why does the Alliance want to recruit the Kul Tiran's navy? Why does the Horde want to recruit the Zandalari? Obviously this is supposed to be escalation. But why? Why are we escalating?

    I still can't even figure out why we're fighting.

    And we aren't really even fighting. To call this a war is to misrepresent the definition of the word. What we have is angry faction leaders, a few skirmishes over strategically worthless ground, and boats that sit at port all the time.

    I don't get it. The war story is going nowhere, and it feels like a giant waste of time and effort for them to even be developing. They're pouring tons of resources into something that doesn't even seem to matter.

    hippofant
  • MillMill Registered User regular
    Blizz's currency calculations can be a bit wonky.

    I've seen cases where I'll get a Champions Of Azeroth commendation from one of their quests and I have the contract. So I see three different lines of rep from them.
    You received 10 reputation with Champions Of Azeroth
    You received 200 reputation with Champions Of Azeroth
    You received 75 reputation with Champions Of Azeroth

    Then other times where it'll roll the contract rep into the commendation token
    You received 210 reputation with Champions Of Azeroth
    You received 75 reputation with Champions Of Azeroth

    Probably seeing similar things with artifact power. Some times it lists both sources separate and other times it roles them together. IMO this just makes things confusing for the player because I was wondering at one point if the contract was bugged in regards to quests that gave rep tokens for champs of azeroth.

    Also apparently we only now need two commanders for the next tier of research at the mission table. So horde is still waiting a month to start that and the alliance is waiting 6 weeks. I wonder if they'll hotfix it again so that it's just one because it's really not a good setup. I don't know what they were thinking here, 2 or 3 would have been fine if we could get all of those in the week of the scenario or if the time table for this thing was much shorter or hell if we had more than one warfront to do. Thing is there is only the one, the commander for the scenario only changes when your faction gets to do it's next assault.

  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Oh that's a nice Star Trek reference with Gallywix I hadn't seen yet. "Are we done? I gotta get to my lobe massage appointment."

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    They're trying to tell two major stories at once.

    You have the threat of the Old Gods, which is a story that will span multiple patches, and probably cover all of the BfA raid tiers. Uldir is an Old God raid. The Azshara raid will probably be Naga-focused, but since they got their powers and mutation from the Old Gods, it is still definitely an Old God story. And then there's the assumption that N'zoth will be the final boss of the expansion.

    And then the other story is this faction war. And it seems to be completely treading water. It doesn't feel like "war" to me. It feels like a bunch of busywork for Nathanos. I haven't seen the Alliance faction war quests so I cannot comment on if those are any better. But from the horde perspective this faction war feels entirely irrelevant and also entirely not-a-war.

    Why are we fighting over Arathi? Why did the Alliance rebuild Stromgarde? Why did the Horde build a random base out there right across the street from Stromgarde when the Horde already had a base on the other side of the zone (Hammerfall)? Why is the Horde base haunted by ghosts? It seems like it isn't even a real base. It's a brand new base with a serious ghost problem.

    Why does the Alliance want to recruit the Kul Tiran's navy? Why does the Horde want to recruit the Zandalari? Obviously this is supposed to be escalation. But why? Why are we escalating?

    I still can't even figure out why we're fighting.

    And we aren't really even fighting. To call this a war is to misrepresent the definition of the word. What we have is angry faction leaders, a few skirmishes over strategically worthless ground, and boats that sit at port all the time.

    I don't get it. The war story is going nowhere, and it feels like a giant waste of time and effort for them to even be developing. They're pouring tons of resources into something that doesn't even seem to matter.

    We're still in the prelude to war. Both sides have hit at each other and suffered losses and now they're seeking allies for a larger push because the battle with the Legion has left both sides exhausted. That's why there's all the diplomacy, sneaking around, raids, and scouting right now.

    We're fighting over Arathi because the Horde is trying to resecure Lordaeron and while the Alliance is trying to isolate Silvermoon. Arathi is the obvious choke point.

    The Alliance wants the Kul Tiran navy and the Horde wants the Zandalari one because when you're in a war across and ocean its a good idea to have a strong navy and a bad idea to be the one without one.

    I mean really dude, all these questions are explicitly answered in game, you just have to read the stuff.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
    SmrtnikNobodySorcha Ravenlock
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    It isn't as obvious as you make it sound. Most of the story gets lost amidst requests to collect bear asses. Nathanos needs a shitload of bear asses to support the war effort.

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    It isn't as obvious as you make it sound. Most of the story gets lost amidst requests to collect bear asses. Nathanos needs a shitload of bear asses to support the war effort.

    I mean half that shit is in game cut scenes and voice acted dialogue. You just dont like the expansion.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
    TynnanXerinkDhalphirSorcha Ravenlock
  • MillMill Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Actually, I'm wondering if the requirements for all the research is account bound. If you're alliance mainly, but have a horde alt within spitting distance of getting into the scenario, it might be worth doing because if that leg is account wide, you could use a horde alt to get there before anyone that purely plays alliance.

    Mill on
  • TynnanTynnan seldom correct, never unsure Registered User regular
    If you've got a problem playing Bear Ass Collector Simulator then I've got some news for you.

    DonnictonSorcha Ravenlock
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    It isn't as obvious as you make it sound. Most of the story gets lost amidst requests to collect bear asses. Nathanos needs a shitload of bear asses to support the war effort.

    The alliance was campaign has us
    Establish bases in Zandalar island
    Discover horde have recruited the vampire elves from WotLK
    Kill the leader of the vampire elves
    Sink a mogu ship that saw the alliance base near ZulDazar harbor
    Bomb a bunch of capital ships in ZulDazar harbor

    Seems pretty "prelude to war" to me.

    Smrtnik on
    steam_sig.png
    BobbleSorcha Ravenlock
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    It isn't as obvious as you make it sound. Most of the story gets lost amidst requests to collect bear asses. Nathanos needs a shitload of bear asses to support the war effort.

    The alliance was campaign has us
    Establish bases in Zandalar island
    Discover horde have recruited the vampire elves from WotLK
    Kill the leader of the vampire elves
    Sink a mogu ship that saw the alliance base near ZulDazar harbor
    Bomb a bunch of capital ships in ZulDazar harbor

    Seems pretty "prelude to war" to me.
    Also help secure Proudmoore rule as a means of currying favor.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    It isn't as obvious as you make it sound. Most of the story gets lost amidst requests to collect bear asses. Nathanos needs a shitload of bear asses to support the war effort.

    The alliance side does a pretty good job explaining stuff, perhaps the horde side just isn't as detailed.

    Twitch Streaming W/TH/F and more
    Dohaeris210 on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
    Sometimes, I make YouTube videos
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    It isn't as obvious as you make it sound. Most of the story gets lost amidst requests to collect bear asses. Nathanos needs a shitload of bear asses to support the war effort.

    https://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/bear_recipeguide.pdf

    Listen, bear round and rump cuts can make some pretty good stuff.

    Toothy
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    It isn't as obvious as you make it sound. Most of the story gets lost amidst requests to collect bear asses. Nathanos needs a shitload of bear asses to support the war effort.

    I mean half that shit is in game cut scenes and voice acted dialogue. You just dont like the expansion.

    You're right. I don't like it. It's a terrible expansion. But I want to like it and I want to understand it, which is why I ask these questions about the point of the war.

    I've watched the cutscenes. I don't skip them. I've read the quest dialog on the war effort quests for Nathanos. And you know what? It wasn't clear to me why we are doing any of this. I never once understood why I spent 20 quests trying to find the body of Marshall Valentine. That was never clear to me. And then it ended up not even mattering. We got a magic rod and all that other stuff was a giant waste of time.

    And I know the war is escalating. I said as much in my post. I know why both sides are recruiting the Kul Tirans and the Zandos. I said as much. But what I don't understand is what the point behind that is. We need allies so we can fight a war. But why? Why are we even fighting. That's the point I still don't understand. We have this escalation, we have two faction leaders who are both severely butthurt over imaginary wrongs, and we have entire races of people getting escalated into conflict over unknown reasons. And that's seriously irritating.

    This entire war is about nothing at all. They have not presented us with 1 good reason why the factions are fighting.

    And to prove to you that yes, I have watched the cutscenes and followed the story, here's my understanding in bullet points of what has happened.


    --The war starts at Broken Shore. King Varian dies, and the horde is up on a bluff and gets overrun by demons and Sylvanas sounds the retreat. Alliance doesn't see the mass of demons overrunning the Horde, so they think they are betrayed, and Genn Greymane goes berserk.
    --Sylvanas tries to harness the power of the valkyr for vague reasons having to do with power over undeath, but it isn't really made clear specifically why. Also, Sylvanas makes a trip to the underworld of Hel and tries to coerce something out of Helya, but again, we don't really know why other than vague allusions to undeath.
    --Genn does mean stuff in retaliation for the false betrayal
    --Azeroth gets stabbed in Silithus with a giant sword which causes a new magic rock that has never existed before to suddenly start to erupt from the earth, but only on a small chain of islands out in the ocean.
    --Azerite is vaguely defined as having magical properties that can be weaponized, but we don't really know what those are, and from everything that I have personally witnessed in Zandalar and Kul Tiras, Azerite is mostly just puddles of blue/yellow piss water and isn't very useful at all. But they want it. For reasons.
    --Darnassus is a major transportation hub for the Alliance for moving Azerite, which is evidenced by the 0 ships that we see carrying Azerite around. Sylvanas wants to stop their supply chain, so she attacks Darnassus. Teldrassil gets burned in the process of sacking the city.
    --The Alliance retaliates by sieging Undercity and at least this one part makes sense. They have a right to retaliate and call Sylvanas to task because what she did was an unprovoked dick move.
    --Undercity falls, Saurfang gets captured, Saurfang gets rescued and disappears from the story.
    --Horde makes friends with the Zandos and Alliance makes friends with the KT's
    --Both sides start fighting over Arathi, which is NOT a chokepoint between Undercity and Silvermoon, as you tried to say earlier. From north to south it goes Silvermoon, then Undercity, then Arathi. Arathi serves no strategic importance to the horde, and if they wanted to protect their interests in Eastern Kingdoms, some random ass piece of land is not the place to do it.

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    How do you not know what the war is about? A brand new super resource is cropping up around the world with massive implications and no regard to the existing borders. That's a war even in the real world.
    Arathi serves no strategic importance to the horde, and if they wanted to protect their interests in Eastern Kingdoms, some random ass piece of land is not the place to do it.
    Its literally a bunch of bridges over a massive ravine.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • KamarKamar Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    It isn't as obvious as you make it sound. Most of the story gets lost amidst requests to collect bear asses. Nathanos needs a shitload of bear asses to support the war effort.

    I mean half that shit is in game cut scenes and voice acted dialogue. You just dont like the expansion.

    You're right. I don't like it. It's a terrible expansion. But I want to like it and I want to understand it, which is why I ask these questions about the point of the war.

    I've watched the cutscenes. I don't skip them. I've read the quest dialog on the war effort quests for Nathanos. And you know what? It wasn't clear to me why we are doing any of this. I never once understood why I spent 20 quests trying to find the body of Marshall Valentine. That was never clear to me. And then it ended up not even mattering. We got a magic rod and all that other stuff was a giant waste of time.

    And I know the war is escalating. I said as much in my post. I know why both sides are recruiting the Kul Tirans and the Zandos. I said as much. But what I don't understand is what the point behind that is. We need allies so we can fight a war. But why? Why are we even fighting. That's the point I still don't understand. We have this escalation, we have two faction leaders who are both severely butthurt over imaginary wrongs, and we have entire races of people getting escalated into conflict over unknown reasons. And that's seriously irritating.

    This entire war is about nothing at all. They have not presented us with 1 good reason why the factions are fighting.

    And to prove to you that yes, I have watched the cutscenes and followed the story, here's my understanding in bullet points of what has happened.


    --The war starts at Broken Shore. King Varian dies, and the horde is up on a bluff and gets overrun by demons and Sylvanas sounds the retreat. Alliance doesn't see the mass of demons overrunning the Horde, so they think they are betrayed, and Genn Greymane goes berserk.
    --Sylvanas tries to harness the power of the valkyr for vague reasons having to do with power over undeath, but it isn't really made clear specifically why. Also, Sylvanas makes a trip to the underworld of Hel and tries to coerce something out of Helya, but again, we don't really know why other than vague allusions to undeath.
    --Genn does mean stuff in retaliation for the false betrayal
    --Azeroth gets stabbed in Silithus with a giant sword which causes a new magic rock that has never existed before to suddenly start to erupt from the earth, but only on a small chain of islands out in the ocean.
    --Azerite is vaguely defined as having magical properties that can be weaponized, but we don't really know what those are, and from everything that I have personally witnessed in Zandalar and Kul Tiras, Azerite is mostly just puddles of blue/yellow piss water and isn't very useful at all. But they want it. For reasons.
    --Darnassus is a major transportation hub for the Alliance for moving Azerite, which is evidenced by the 0 ships that we see carrying Azerite around. Sylvanas wants to stop their supply chain, so she attacks Darnassus. Teldrassil gets burned in the process of sacking the city.
    --The Alliance retaliates by sieging Undercity and at least this one part makes sense. They have a right to retaliate and call Sylvanas to task because what she did was an unprovoked dick move.
    --Undercity falls, Saurfang gets captured, Saurfang gets rescued and disappears from the story.
    --Horde makes friends with the Zandos and Alliance makes friends with the KT's
    --Both sides start fighting over Arathi, which is NOT a chokepoint between Undercity and Silvermoon, as you tried to say earlier. From north to south it goes Silvermoon, then Undercity, then Arathi. Arathi serves no strategic importance to the horde, and if they wanted to protect their interests in Eastern Kingdoms, some random ass piece of land is not the place to do it.

    We know exactly what Sylvanas was up to in Stormheim; she wanted to secure a source of Val'kyr so she can maintain the Forsaken population. They can't reproduce, it's her main concern, ostensibly because she believes that tolerance for the undead only exists so long as they're a strong army. She thinks the Alliance and the Horde might both strike if they see weakness.

    Kamar on
    SmrtnikSorcha Ravenlock
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    A bunch of bridges that lead directly to dwarf territory that the horde does not have any significant presence in, and has never had any significant presence in, and also, there's no Azerite in dwarf territory.

    I understand a war for resources. But is there any Azerite in Loch Modan, Dun Morogh, Blasted Lands, or any other zones that Arathi would be a gateway to? The answer is no. No there is not any Azerite there. And thus the Horde has no interest in those areas if this is indeed a war for resources.

    Shadowhope
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    A bunch of bridges that lead directly to dwarf territory that the horde does not have any significant presence in, and has never had any significant presence in, and also, there's no Azerite in dwarf territory.

    I understand a war for resources. But is there any Azerite in Loch Modan, Dun Morogh, Blasted Lands, or any other zones that Arathi would be a gateway to? The answer is no. No there is not any Azerite there. And thus the Horde has no interest in those areas if this is indeed a war for resources.

    They're not in Arathi to invade the lower Eastern Kingdoms, they're there to secure the Northern half which they're suffered a significant loss of power in, which I had just already explained. They don't want the Alliance increasing its grasp on Lordaeron and it makes sense to fight that battle at the bottleneck between Lordaeron and the main center of Alliance power.

    Arathi has always been a hotbead for violence for the same reason as Ashenvale. Its where two super powers meet. This is just the most recent flare up of violence.

    Its a war for resources, that doesn't mean every battle is fought over a specific Azerite deposit.

    This is silly dude.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
    DonnictonSmrtnik
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Kamar wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    It isn't as obvious as you make it sound. Most of the story gets lost amidst requests to collect bear asses. Nathanos needs a shitload of bear asses to support the war effort.

    I mean half that shit is in game cut scenes and voice acted dialogue. You just dont like the expansion.

    You're right. I don't like it. It's a terrible expansion. But I want to like it and I want to understand it, which is why I ask these questions about the point of the war.

    I've watched the cutscenes. I don't skip them. I've read the quest dialog on the war effort quests for Nathanos. And you know what? It wasn't clear to me why we are doing any of this. I never once understood why I spent 20 quests trying to find the body of Marshall Valentine. That was never clear to me. And then it ended up not even mattering. We got a magic rod and all that other stuff was a giant waste of time.

    And I know the war is escalating. I said as much in my post. I know why both sides are recruiting the Kul Tirans and the Zandos. I said as much. But what I don't understand is what the point behind that is. We need allies so we can fight a war. But why? Why are we even fighting. That's the point I still don't understand. We have this escalation, we have two faction leaders who are both severely butthurt over imaginary wrongs, and we have entire races of people getting escalated into conflict over unknown reasons. And that's seriously irritating.

    This entire war is about nothing at all. They have not presented us with 1 good reason why the factions are fighting.

    And to prove to you that yes, I have watched the cutscenes and followed the story, here's my understanding in bullet points of what has happened.


    --The war starts at Broken Shore. King Varian dies, and the horde is up on a bluff and gets overrun by demons and Sylvanas sounds the retreat. Alliance doesn't see the mass of demons overrunning the Horde, so they think they are betrayed, and Genn Greymane goes berserk.
    --Sylvanas tries to harness the power of the valkyr for vague reasons having to do with power over undeath, but it isn't really made clear specifically why. Also, Sylvanas makes a trip to the underworld of Hel and tries to coerce something out of Helya, but again, we don't really know why other than vague allusions to undeath.
    --Genn does mean stuff in retaliation for the false betrayal
    --Azeroth gets stabbed in Silithus with a giant sword which causes a new magic rock that has never existed before to suddenly start to erupt from the earth, but only on a small chain of islands out in the ocean.
    --Azerite is vaguely defined as having magical properties that can be weaponized, but we don't really know what those are, and from everything that I have personally witnessed in Zandalar and Kul Tiras, Azerite is mostly just puddles of blue/yellow piss water and isn't very useful at all. But they want it. For reasons.
    --Darnassus is a major transportation hub for the Alliance for moving Azerite, which is evidenced by the 0 ships that we see carrying Azerite around. Sylvanas wants to stop their supply chain, so she attacks Darnassus. Teldrassil gets burned in the process of sacking the city.
    --The Alliance retaliates by sieging Undercity and at least this one part makes sense. They have a right to retaliate and call Sylvanas to task because what she did was an unprovoked dick move.
    --Undercity falls, Saurfang gets captured, Saurfang gets rescued and disappears from the story.
    --Horde makes friends with the Zandos and Alliance makes friends with the KT's
    --Both sides start fighting over Arathi, which is NOT a chokepoint between Undercity and Silvermoon, as you tried to say earlier. From north to south it goes Silvermoon, then Undercity, then Arathi. Arathi serves no strategic importance to the horde, and if they wanted to protect their interests in Eastern Kingdoms, some random ass piece of land is not the place to do it.

    We know exactly what Sylvanas was up to in Stormheim; she wanted to secure a source of Val'kyr so she can maintain the Forsaken population. They can't reproduce, it's her main concern, ostensibly because she believes that tolerance for the undead only exists so long as they're a strong army. She thinks the Alliance and the Horde might both strike if they see weakness.

    The Forsaken can reproduce just fine.

    I did a quest with Lillan Voss where this Tidepriest of the Kul Tirans was terminally ill, and before he dies he asks us to raise him as a Forsaken so that he can continue to look out for and protect his family. And so we did. We turned him to a Forsaken when he died.

    And how many Valkyr were involved in doing that? 0. The answer is no Valkyr were involved in the creation of a brand new Forsaken.

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Kamar wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    It isn't as obvious as you make it sound. Most of the story gets lost amidst requests to collect bear asses. Nathanos needs a shitload of bear asses to support the war effort.

    I mean half that shit is in game cut scenes and voice acted dialogue. You just dont like the expansion.

    You're right. I don't like it. It's a terrible expansion. But I want to like it and I want to understand it, which is why I ask these questions about the point of the war.

    I've watched the cutscenes. I don't skip them. I've read the quest dialog on the war effort quests for Nathanos. And you know what? It wasn't clear to me why we are doing any of this. I never once understood why I spent 20 quests trying to find the body of Marshall Valentine. That was never clear to me. And then it ended up not even mattering. We got a magic rod and all that other stuff was a giant waste of time.

    And I know the war is escalating. I said as much in my post. I know why both sides are recruiting the Kul Tirans and the Zandos. I said as much. But what I don't understand is what the point behind that is. We need allies so we can fight a war. But why? Why are we even fighting. That's the point I still don't understand. We have this escalation, we have two faction leaders who are both severely butthurt over imaginary wrongs, and we have entire races of people getting escalated into conflict over unknown reasons. And that's seriously irritating.

    This entire war is about nothing at all. They have not presented us with 1 good reason why the factions are fighting.

    And to prove to you that yes, I have watched the cutscenes and followed the story, here's my understanding in bullet points of what has happened.


    --The war starts at Broken Shore. King Varian dies, and the horde is up on a bluff and gets overrun by demons and Sylvanas sounds the retreat. Alliance doesn't see the mass of demons overrunning the Horde, so they think they are betrayed, and Genn Greymane goes berserk.
    --Sylvanas tries to harness the power of the valkyr for vague reasons having to do with power over undeath, but it isn't really made clear specifically why. Also, Sylvanas makes a trip to the underworld of Hel and tries to coerce something out of Helya, but again, we don't really know why other than vague allusions to undeath.
    --Genn does mean stuff in retaliation for the false betrayal
    --Azeroth gets stabbed in Silithus with a giant sword which causes a new magic rock that has never existed before to suddenly start to erupt from the earth, but only on a small chain of islands out in the ocean.
    --Azerite is vaguely defined as having magical properties that can be weaponized, but we don't really know what those are, and from everything that I have personally witnessed in Zandalar and Kul Tiras, Azerite is mostly just puddles of blue/yellow piss water and isn't very useful at all. But they want it. For reasons.
    --Darnassus is a major transportation hub for the Alliance for moving Azerite, which is evidenced by the 0 ships that we see carrying Azerite around. Sylvanas wants to stop their supply chain, so she attacks Darnassus. Teldrassil gets burned in the process of sacking the city.
    --The Alliance retaliates by sieging Undercity and at least this one part makes sense. They have a right to retaliate and call Sylvanas to task because what she did was an unprovoked dick move.
    --Undercity falls, Saurfang gets captured, Saurfang gets rescued and disappears from the story.
    --Horde makes friends with the Zandos and Alliance makes friends with the KT's
    --Both sides start fighting over Arathi, which is NOT a chokepoint between Undercity and Silvermoon, as you tried to say earlier. From north to south it goes Silvermoon, then Undercity, then Arathi. Arathi serves no strategic importance to the horde, and if they wanted to protect their interests in Eastern Kingdoms, some random ass piece of land is not the place to do it.

    We know exactly what Sylvanas was up to in Stormheim; she wanted to secure a source of Val'kyr so she can maintain the Forsaken population. They can't reproduce, it's her main concern, ostensibly because she believes that tolerance for the undead only exists so long as they're a strong army. She thinks the Alliance and the Horde might both strike if they see weakness.

    The Forsaken can reproduce just fine.

    I did a quest with Lillan Voss where this Tidepriest of the Kul Tirans was terminally ill, and before he dies he asks us to raise him as a Forsaken so that he can continue to look out for and protect his family. And so we did. We turned him to a Forsaken when he died.

    And how many Valkyr were involved in doing that? 0. The answer is no Valkyr were involved in the creation of a brand new Forsaken.

    Voss summoned a Valkyr to resurrect the guy.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
    DonnictonBigityLD50brynhrtmnXerinkSmrtnik
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    A bunch of bridges that lead directly to dwarf territory that the horde does not have any significant presence in, and has never had any significant presence in, and also, there's no Azerite in dwarf territory.

    I understand a war for resources. But is there any Azerite in Loch Modan, Dun Morogh, Blasted Lands, or any other zones that Arathi would be a gateway to? The answer is no. No there is not any Azerite there. And thus the Horde has no interest in those areas if this is indeed a war for resources.

    They're not in Arathi to invade the lower Eastern Kingdoms, they're there to secure the Northern half which they're suffered a significant loss of power in, which I had just already explained. They don't want the Alliance increasing its grasp on Lordaeron and it makes sense to fight that battle at the bottleneck between Lordaeron and the main center of Alliance power.

    Arathi has always been a hotbead for violence for the same reason as Ashenvale. Its where two super powers meet. This is just the most recent flare up of violence.

    Its a war for resources, that doesn't mean every battle is fought over a specific Azerite deposit.

    This is silly dude.

    I would agree, except that

    Horde no longer has any presence in Undercity.

    Arathi made sense as a hotbed for conflict and violence when it was the middle ground between two faction capitals. But it is no longer the middle ground between two faction capitals. It is the middle ground between the dwarf kingdom and a desolate ruin that was poisoned, burned, and sieged and now nobody at all lives there.

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    A bunch of bridges that lead directly to dwarf territory that the horde does not have any significant presence in, and has never had any significant presence in, and also, there's no Azerite in dwarf territory.

    I understand a war for resources. But is there any Azerite in Loch Modan, Dun Morogh, Blasted Lands, or any other zones that Arathi would be a gateway to? The answer is no. No there is not any Azerite there. And thus the Horde has no interest in those areas if this is indeed a war for resources.

    They're not in Arathi to invade the lower Eastern Kingdoms, they're there to secure the Northern half which they're suffered a significant loss of power in, which I had just already explained. They don't want the Alliance increasing its grasp on Lordaeron and it makes sense to fight that battle at the bottleneck between Lordaeron and the main center of Alliance power.

    Arathi has always been a hotbead for violence for the same reason as Ashenvale. Its where two super powers meet. This is just the most recent flare up of violence.

    Its a war for resources, that doesn't mean every battle is fought over a specific Azerite deposit.

    This is silly dude.

    I would agree, except that

    Horde no longer has any presence in Undercity.

    Arathi made sense as a hotbed for conflict and violence when it was the middle ground between two faction capitals. But it is no longer the middle ground between two faction capitals. It is the middle ground between the dwarf kingdom and a desolate ruin that was poisoned, burned, and sieged and now nobody at all lives there.

    The Horde still has Silvermoon and a series of other encampments and holdings throughout the area. If the Alliance can take all of the Eastern Kingdoms then they can siege Silvermoon and probably knock the Blood Elves out of the war.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
    Smrtnik
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Kamar wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    It isn't as obvious as you make it sound. Most of the story gets lost amidst requests to collect bear asses. Nathanos needs a shitload of bear asses to support the war effort.

    I mean half that shit is in game cut scenes and voice acted dialogue. You just dont like the expansion.

    You're right. I don't like it. It's a terrible expansion. But I want to like it and I want to understand it, which is why I ask these questions about the point of the war.

    I've watched the cutscenes. I don't skip them. I've read the quest dialog on the war effort quests for Nathanos. And you know what? It wasn't clear to me why we are doing any of this. I never once understood why I spent 20 quests trying to find the body of Marshall Valentine. That was never clear to me. And then it ended up not even mattering. We got a magic rod and all that other stuff was a giant waste of time.

    And I know the war is escalating. I said as much in my post. I know why both sides are recruiting the Kul Tirans and the Zandos. I said as much. But what I don't understand is what the point behind that is. We need allies so we can fight a war. But why? Why are we even fighting. That's the point I still don't understand. We have this escalation, we have two faction leaders who are both severely butthurt over imaginary wrongs, and we have entire races of people getting escalated into conflict over unknown reasons. And that's seriously irritating.

    This entire war is about nothing at all. They have not presented us with 1 good reason why the factions are fighting.

    And to prove to you that yes, I have watched the cutscenes and followed the story, here's my understanding in bullet points of what has happened.


    --The war starts at Broken Shore. King Varian dies, and the horde is up on a bluff and gets overrun by demons and Sylvanas sounds the retreat. Alliance doesn't see the mass of demons overrunning the Horde, so they think they are betrayed, and Genn Greymane goes berserk.
    --Sylvanas tries to harness the power of the valkyr for vague reasons having to do with power over undeath, but it isn't really made clear specifically why. Also, Sylvanas makes a trip to the underworld of Hel and tries to coerce something out of Helya, but again, we don't really know why other than vague allusions to undeath.
    --Genn does mean stuff in retaliation for the false betrayal
    --Azeroth gets stabbed in Silithus with a giant sword which causes a new magic rock that has never existed before to suddenly start to erupt from the earth, but only on a small chain of islands out in the ocean.
    --Azerite is vaguely defined as having magical properties that can be weaponized, but we don't really know what those are, and from everything that I have personally witnessed in Zandalar and Kul Tiras, Azerite is mostly just puddles of blue/yellow piss water and isn't very useful at all. But they want it. For reasons.
    --Darnassus is a major transportation hub for the Alliance for moving Azerite, which is evidenced by the 0 ships that we see carrying Azerite around. Sylvanas wants to stop their supply chain, so she attacks Darnassus. Teldrassil gets burned in the process of sacking the city.
    --The Alliance retaliates by sieging Undercity and at least this one part makes sense. They have a right to retaliate and call Sylvanas to task because what she did was an unprovoked dick move.
    --Undercity falls, Saurfang gets captured, Saurfang gets rescued and disappears from the story.
    --Horde makes friends with the Zandos and Alliance makes friends with the KT's
    --Both sides start fighting over Arathi, which is NOT a chokepoint between Undercity and Silvermoon, as you tried to say earlier. From north to south it goes Silvermoon, then Undercity, then Arathi. Arathi serves no strategic importance to the horde, and if they wanted to protect their interests in Eastern Kingdoms, some random ass piece of land is not the place to do it.

    We know exactly what Sylvanas was up to in Stormheim; she wanted to secure a source of Val'kyr so she can maintain the Forsaken population. They can't reproduce, it's her main concern, ostensibly because she believes that tolerance for the undead only exists so long as they're a strong army. She thinks the Alliance and the Horde might both strike if they see weakness.

    The Forsaken can reproduce just fine.

    I did a quest with Lillan Voss where this Tidepriest of the Kul Tirans was terminally ill, and before he dies he asks us to raise him as a Forsaken so that he can continue to look out for and protect his family. And so we did. We turned him to a Forsaken when he died.

    And how many Valkyr were involved in doing that? 0. The answer is no Valkyr were involved in the creation of a brand new Forsaken.

    Voss summoned a Valkyr to resurrect the guy.

    She did? Well on that part I stand corrected then.

    But I think this whole faction war as a whole is still super vaguely defined even if I concede that point.

  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Kamar wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    It isn't as obvious as you make it sound. Most of the story gets lost amidst requests to collect bear asses. Nathanos needs a shitload of bear asses to support the war effort.

    I mean half that shit is in game cut scenes and voice acted dialogue. You just dont like the expansion.

    You're right. I don't like it. It's a terrible expansion. But I want to like it and I want to understand it, which is why I ask these questions about the point of the war.

    I've watched the cutscenes. I don't skip them. I've read the quest dialog on the war effort quests for Nathanos. And you know what? It wasn't clear to me why we are doing any of this. I never once understood why I spent 20 quests trying to find the body of Marshall Valentine. That was never clear to me. And then it ended up not even mattering. We got a magic rod and all that other stuff was a giant waste of time.

    And I know the war is escalating. I said as much in my post. I know why both sides are recruiting the Kul Tirans and the Zandos. I said as much. But what I don't understand is what the point behind that is. We need allies so we can fight a war. But why? Why are we even fighting. That's the point I still don't understand. We have this escalation, we have two faction leaders who are both severely butthurt over imaginary wrongs, and we have entire races of people getting escalated into conflict over unknown reasons. And that's seriously irritating.

    This entire war is about nothing at all. They have not presented us with 1 good reason why the factions are fighting.

    And to prove to you that yes, I have watched the cutscenes and followed the story, here's my understanding in bullet points of what has happened.


    --The war starts at Broken Shore. King Varian dies, and the horde is up on a bluff and gets overrun by demons and Sylvanas sounds the retreat. Alliance doesn't see the mass of demons overrunning the Horde, so they think they are betrayed, and Genn Greymane goes berserk.
    --Sylvanas tries to harness the power of the valkyr for vague reasons having to do with power over undeath, but it isn't really made clear specifically why. Also, Sylvanas makes a trip to the underworld of Hel and tries to coerce something out of Helya, but again, we don't really know why other than vague allusions to undeath.
    --Genn does mean stuff in retaliation for the false betrayal
    --Azeroth gets stabbed in Silithus with a giant sword which causes a new magic rock that has never existed before to suddenly start to erupt from the earth, but only on a small chain of islands out in the ocean.
    --Azerite is vaguely defined as having magical properties that can be weaponized, but we don't really know what those are, and from everything that I have personally witnessed in Zandalar and Kul Tiras, Azerite is mostly just puddles of blue/yellow piss water and isn't very useful at all. But they want it. For reasons.
    --Darnassus is a major transportation hub for the Alliance for moving Azerite, which is evidenced by the 0 ships that we see carrying Azerite around. Sylvanas wants to stop their supply chain, so she attacks Darnassus. Teldrassil gets burned in the process of sacking the city.
    --The Alliance retaliates by sieging Undercity and at least this one part makes sense. They have a right to retaliate and call Sylvanas to task because what she did was an unprovoked dick move.
    --Undercity falls, Saurfang gets captured, Saurfang gets rescued and disappears from the story.
    --Horde makes friends with the Zandos and Alliance makes friends with the KT's
    --Both sides start fighting over Arathi, which is NOT a chokepoint between Undercity and Silvermoon, as you tried to say earlier. From north to south it goes Silvermoon, then Undercity, then Arathi. Arathi serves no strategic importance to the horde, and if they wanted to protect their interests in Eastern Kingdoms, some random ass piece of land is not the place to do it.

    We know exactly what Sylvanas was up to in Stormheim; she wanted to secure a source of Val'kyr so she can maintain the Forsaken population. They can't reproduce, it's her main concern, ostensibly because she believes that tolerance for the undead only exists so long as they're a strong army. She thinks the Alliance and the Horde might both strike if they see weakness.

    The Forsaken can reproduce just fine.

    I did a quest with Lillan Voss where this Tidepriest of the Kul Tirans was terminally ill, and before he dies he asks us to raise him as a Forsaken so that he can continue to look out for and protect his family. And so we did. We turned him to a Forsaken when he died.

    And how many Valkyr were involved in doing that? 0. The answer is no Valkyr were involved in the creation of a brand new Forsaken.

    Voss summoned a Valkyr to resurrect the guy.

    She did? Well on that part I stand corrected then.

    But I think this whole faction war as a whole is still super vaguely defined even if I concede that point.

    It's unclear how many Val'kyr Sylvanas has left but it's implied that this one is one of(if not the) last one, so that's why she's been in panic mode about finding a new way to make more Forsaken.

  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Arathi is the other side of the Thandol span, which the Alliance would need in order to transport troops and war machines over land from Ironforge to siege Silvermoon. Air and sea are impractical due to various reasons (not enough ships/aircraft) and it’s stated...somewhere that they can’t just open up a bunch of portals for the purpose either (can’t remember where this came under, but I remember it being said).

    The reason they wanted Valentine was that they were looking for somebody with intimate knowledge of the Kul Tiran fleet so they can defeat it. (ref: A Stroll Through The Cemetery quest).

    As for the reason for the war, Sylvanas’s stared reasons in the short story was that Azerite was going to supercharge the weapons everyone uses and the next war (which she was certain was going to happen and Genn helped prove) was going to make the last one look like a picnic. So, she wanted to start it now, before azerite can be fully weaponized, and get a quick victory so she can negotiate a more lasting peace from strength. Whether or not you believe her is entirely up to you though.

    Nobody on
    Smrtnik
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    I'm pretty sure portal precision and capacity is a game play mechanic and not representative of the lore in a general sense. Oculeth is certainly talking shit about the general state of portal magic.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
    Smrtnik
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Ahh, see if that is all in a book that is why I am unaware of it.

    My interaction with Warcraft lore is strictly in video games. Any lore that happens in books, comics, short stories, or any other medium outside of the game might as well not exist.

    Blizzard fails super hardcore at telling the World of Warcraft story inside World of Warcraft.

  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    also, with portals, controlling a piece of land to stop an army is ludicrous.

    ShadowhopeEvermourn
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Ahh, see if that is all in a book that is why I am unaware of it.

    My interaction with Warcraft lore is strictly in video games. Any lore that happens in books, comics, short stories, or any other medium outside of the game might as well not exist.

    Blizzard fails super hardcore at telling the World of Warcraft story inside World of Warcraft.

    There's a lot of character details that are in the books, but none of this stuff.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
This discussion has been closed.