I mean we've got the whole Russia conspiracy, we've got obstruction of justice, we've got conspiracy to defraud the US/commit offense, abuse of power (all his hotels and using Mar a Lago for access)...
If Trump wasn't being protected by his own party, there are a shitload of crimes he's dead to rights on.
And we must remember this moment. In reality, we wont impeach Trump, and the best we will ever do is regain control of the government. The instant we do, Trump goes on trial. We CANNOT afford to 'let it slip for national unity' again. He must be punished, and he must go to jail. I don't care if its 20 years from now and the man is 99. I want him, and his whole family, in federal prison.
Except for Barron and Tiffany. They don’t seem to be mixed up in any of this. The rest of them seem to be a pack of criminals, just like dear old Dad.
Well yes, clearly only those who are old enough to be legally responsible for crimes or those who have spoken to Trump in the last 2 years.
Although, now Melania is off the hook! Marital strife burn!
Associated Press reports Cohen has been subpoenaed in the investigation into the Trump Foundation.
Where the hell were these assholes two fucking years ago?
Who? New York State or the AP? Because I'm pretty sure the answer to both is 'White collar crime is not a crime!'
New York State. The Washington Post chronicled their investigations of the Trump Foundation and it was clear from the beginning it's a sham charity.
So, yeah. The unremarked truth is that they just don't pursue white collar crimes because it doesn't play as well toward the electorate that sees themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
All this Manafort/Cohen/Trump stuff won't sustain itself. So enjoy it while it lasts.
I absolutely believe Trump knew about the emails and that Cohen can prove it. Just because he might have something to gain doesn’t mean it is immediately untrustworthy, particularly when he’s biting the hand that used to feed.
I’m not saying we should be credulous of every claim, just the credible ones. It’s probably that Mueller already has the proof though.
Nah this is a bridge too far. Too high up on the chain for Cohen to have knowledge let alone a recording of it. If such a thing existed we'd have known about it before now. This is just Cohen and Davis getting their names on tv.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Nah this is a bridge too far. Too high up on the chain for Cohen to have knowledge let alone a recording of it. If such a thing existed we'd have known about it before now. This is just Cohen and Davis getting their names on tv.
If it was going to be anyone, it would have been Cohen, or Vlad himself.
So Lanny Davis says Cohen was witness to a discussion wherein Trump knew about the emails before they were publicly released.
The problem here is that it's Lanny Davis and Michael Cohen.
And cohen. Like if there was any proof to that effect, we would be golden. But yeah these two? not trusting a thing.
It's Cohen so I 100% believe he recorded the conversation on video with the camera pointed directly at Trump's face.
With this yahoo I feel like it would actually be a shaky video of the ground and then finally Cohen’s face as he realizes he was accidentally filing and quickly shuts it off, followed by a cut to a previously recorded video of Cohen playing “Star Wars” in his garage with a golf club as a pretend light saber.
Cohen cooperating is valuable even if he doesn’t bring new information. All the tapes are not slam dunks until one of the people on the tapes says “this was made on this date; I made it; the other voice is X, whom I had called. We discussed y and my understanding of the conversation having known x for a long time was z”. It makes the tapes unimpeachable
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No-QuarterNothing To FearBut Fear ItselfRegistered Userregular
Politico has a piece up that references how Trump treats his employees when he thinks they’re no longer loyal to him.
Res, meanwhile, was the Trump Tower construction manager. A few years after that, working to refurbish the Plaza Hotel after Trump paid far too much for it, she up and quit—unwilling any longer to take Trump’s explosive moods and turbulent treatment. In her 2013 book, All Alone on the 68th Floor, she recounted an especially unnerving experience as she installed some cut-rate marble. “Donald took one look at this marble and started screaming at me,” she wrote. “He was shaking. ‘You did this,’ he said. ‘You bought this cheap shit and now you are making me look like a jerk. You’re no fucking good.’ I said, ‘Look, Donald, this is the marble you approved. It was cheap, you wanted to save money. Don’t blame me.’ It was like pouring gasoline on a fire. His face was red. His mouth was all twisted and I thought to myself, if he hits you, just take a fall. I did think he was going to hit me.” Res has been a steady Trump critic since he announced his presidential candidacy. Trump once responded by calling her “nasty.”
So basically the worst manager you ever had? He’s the President now.
But the point is that he does not feel like he has to be silent if someone does not display unwavering, unquestioning loyalty to him (and the loyalty is rarely, if ever, reciprocated). Au contraire, lashing out at perceived traitors is second nature to him.
Which makes his (relative) silence on Cohen’s public betrayal... deafening.
Stuff like the contruction of Trump Tower and Cohen's dealings with the cab medallion racket makes me wonder how much of the NYC real estate market and other hotbeds of corruption could be torn down by leads from this SDNY case
I'm not holding my breath but I bet at least a few more cases come out of this
Cohen cooperating is valuable even if he doesn’t bring new information. All the tapes are not slam dunks until one of the people on the tapes says “this was made on this date; I made it; the other voice is X, whom I had called. We discussed y and my understanding of the conversation having known x for a long time was z”. It makes the tapes unimpeachable
This is a good point, and probably why he was still able to cut a deal.
Stuff like the contruction of Trump Tower and Cohen's dealings with the cab medallion racket makes me wonder how much of the NYC real estate market and other hotbeds of corruption could be torn down by leads from this SDNY case
I'm not holding my breath but I bet at least a few more cases come out of this
All of it. The NY real estate industry, from what has been said, is basically built on money laundering.
Stuff like the contruction of Trump Tower and Cohen's dealings with the cab medallion racket makes me wonder how much of the NYC real estate market and other hotbeds of corruption could be torn down by leads from this SDNY case
I'm not holding my breath but I bet at least a few more cases come out of this
It's a problem of scale. Just as they talk of banks being "too big to fail", you reach a point where, practically speaking, there's neither the resources nor the will to conduct a thorough, no-tolerance purge of [X], where [X] is an industry literally built on corruption, illegal labor practices, etc etc. Where do you even start?... and if you did, somehow, manage to actually do it, the whole thing would just collapse without all the crime propping it up. (see also, agriculture in this most countries.)
Stuff like the contruction of Trump Tower and Cohen's dealings with the cab medallion racket makes me wonder how much of the NYC real estate market and other hotbeds of corruption could be torn down by leads from this SDNY case
I'm not holding my breath but I bet at least a few more cases come out of this
It's a problem of scale. Just as they talk of banks being "too big to fail", you reach a point where, practically speaking, there's neither the resources nor the will to conduct a thorough, no-tolerance purge of [X], where [X] is an industry literally built on corruption, illegal labor practices, etc etc. Where do you even start?... and if you did, somehow, manage to actually do it, the whole thing would just collapse without all the crime propping it up. (see also, agriculture in this most countries.)
Also it might literally destroy the New York economy, if I correctly recall an interview from Pod Save America.
That's right, real estate crime in NYC is 'too big to fail'.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Stuff like the contruction of Trump Tower and Cohen's dealings with the cab medallion racket makes me wonder how much of the NYC real estate market and other hotbeds of corruption could be torn down by leads from this SDNY case
I'm not holding my breath but I bet at least a few more cases come out of this
It's a problem of scale. Just as they talk of banks being "too big to fail", you reach a point where, practically speaking, there's neither the resources nor the will to conduct a thorough, no-tolerance purge of [X], where [X] is an industry literally built on corruption, illegal labor practices, etc etc. Where do you even start?... and if you did, somehow, manage to actually do it, the whole thing would just collapse without all the crime propping it up. (see also, agriculture in this most countries.)
Also it might literally destroy the New York economy, if I correctly recall an interview from Pod Save America.
That's right, real estate crime in NYC is 'too big to fail'.
Eh, you just do it one step at a time, focusing on the most recent crimes and forgiving past criminals who cooperate. Too big to fail just means too big to burn down, not too big to control.
Stuff like the contruction of Trump Tower and Cohen's dealings with the cab medallion racket makes me wonder how much of the NYC real estate market and other hotbeds of corruption could be torn down by leads from this SDNY case
I'm not holding my breath but I bet at least a few more cases come out of this
It's a problem of scale. Just as they talk of banks being "too big to fail", you reach a point where, practically speaking, there's neither the resources nor the will to conduct a thorough, no-tolerance purge of [X], where [X] is an industry literally built on corruption, illegal labor practices, etc etc. Where do you even start?... and if you did, somehow, manage to actually do it, the whole thing would just collapse without all the crime propping it up. (see also, agriculture in this most countries.)
Also it might literally destroy the New York economy, if I correctly recall an interview from Pod Save America.
That's right, real estate crime in NYC is 'too big to fail'.
That's what I was trying to get at, yes. Thank you.
Stuff like the contruction of Trump Tower and Cohen's dealings with the cab medallion racket makes me wonder how much of the NYC real estate market and other hotbeds of corruption could be torn down by leads from this SDNY case
I'm not holding my breath but I bet at least a few more cases come out of this
It's a problem of scale. Just as they talk of banks being "too big to fail", you reach a point where, practically speaking, there's neither the resources nor the will to conduct a thorough, no-tolerance purge of [X], where [X] is an industry literally built on corruption, illegal labor practices, etc etc. Where do you even start?... and if you did, somehow, manage to actually do it, the whole thing would just collapse without all the crime propping it up. (see also, agriculture in this most countries.)
Also it might literally destroy the New York economy, if I correctly recall an interview from Pod Save America.
That's right, real estate crime in NYC is 'too big to fail'.
Eh, you just do it one step at a time, focusing on the most recent crimes and forgiving past criminals who cooperate. Too big to fail just means too big to burn down, not too big to control.
That assumes that the market isn't heavily dependent on crime in order to exist at all in its current form.
Again, see all of the businesses that literally depend on illegal workers paid below-minimum-wage, under the table, for jobs that Americans don't actually want to do.
It might be possible to construct some version of the NYC real estate market that isn't based around crime, but I'm not sure what it would look like, and you'd pretty much have to tear it all down to the foundation and start over. And then zealously weed, or you'll just wind up with the same thing in ten or twenty or fifty years.
Commander Zoom on
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Again, see all of the businesses that literally depend on illegal workers paid below-minimum-wage, under the table, for jobs that Americans don't actually want to do.
It might be possible to construct some version of the NYC real estate market that isn't based around crime, but I'm not sure what it would look like, and you'd pretty much have to tear it all down to the foundation and start over. And then zealously weed, or you'll just wind up with the same thing in ten or twenty or fifty years.
Not just New York, but London, Vancouver, San Fran, and so on.
Again, see all of the businesses that literally depend on illegal workers paid below-minimum-wage, under the table, for jobs that Americans don't actually want to do.
It might be possible to construct some version of the NYC real estate market that isn't based around crime, but I'm not sure what it would look like, and you'd pretty much have to tear it all down to the foundation and start over. And then zealously weed, or you'll just wind up with the same thing in ten or twenty or fifty years.
Not just New York, but London, Vancouver, San Fran, and so on.
Recent events have made it hard to ignore just how incredibly corrupt the Western culture is.
Stuff like the contruction of Trump Tower and Cohen's dealings with the cab medallion racket makes me wonder how much of the NYC real estate market and other hotbeds of corruption could be torn down by leads from this SDNY case
I'm not holding my breath but I bet at least a few more cases come out of this
It's a problem of scale. Just as they talk of banks being "too big to fail", you reach a point where, practically speaking, there's neither the resources nor the will to conduct a thorough, no-tolerance purge of [X], where [X] is an industry literally built on corruption, illegal labor practices, etc etc. Where do you even start?... and if you did, somehow, manage to actually do it, the whole thing would just collapse without all the crime propping it up. (see also, agriculture in this most countries.)
Also it might literally destroy the New York economy, if I correctly recall an interview from Pod Save America.
That's right, real estate crime in NYC is 'too big to fail'.
Eh, you just do it one step at a time, focusing on the most recent crimes and forgiving past criminals who cooperate. Too big to fail just means too big to burn down, not too big to control.
That assumes that the market isn't heavily dependent on crime in order to exist at all in its current form.
Yes. The whole point of saying NYC real estate is dependant on crime is that the industry depends on people pouring money into it to launder said money in order to keep going. Trump is deeply entrenched in the seediest end of this because no one else would give him money.
This is not really unique to NYC either and manifests itself in a bunch of cities around the western world.
shryke on
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Again, see all of the businesses that literally depend on illegal workers paid below-minimum-wage, under the table, for jobs that Americans don't actually want to do.
It might be possible to construct some version of the NYC real estate market that isn't based around crime, but I'm not sure what it would look like, and you'd pretty much have to tear it all down to the foundation and start over. And then zealously weed, or you'll just wind up with the same thing in ten or twenty or fifty years.
Not just New York, but London, Vancouver, San Fran, and so on.
Recent events have made it hard to ignore just how incredibly corrupt the Western culture is.
I hate to break it to you, but Eastern Culture(whatever that is) also isn't doing too great.
The human condition is kind of a bag of dicks right now.
Fencingsax on
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
edited August 2018
Trump on F&F saying that what Cohen is doing (i.e. flipping) should be illegal because it's just not fair.
Yes, let us prohibit criminals from speaking out against their crime bosses.
That would surely lead to a more robust system of justice. Obviously, we do not need testimony from people who know about crimes for the justice system to work.
Cohen cooperating is valuable even if he doesn’t bring new information. All the tapes are not slam dunks until one of the people on the tapes says “this was made on this date; I made it; the other voice is X, whom I had called. We discussed y and my understanding of the conversation having known x for a long time was z”. It makes the tapes unimpeachable
It also helps in the national zeitgeist. I'm seeing headlines all over the national media saying "Cohen implicates Trump" or something along those lines. And for people who aren't either Fox News viewers or spend every waking moment watching this stuff like we do, they just see headlines saying Trump's personal attorney is out there saying "yes Trump knew all this stuff and he's a big super criminal", it does a lot for those middle of the road voters who don't pay attention constantly to every little thing.
Posts
Speaking of: would such a subpoena allow the NYAG to ask Cohen about that? Or do questions have to be within some narrowly defined scope?
New York State. The Washington Post chronicled their investigations of the Trump Foundation and it was clear from the beginning it's a sham charity.
Well yes, clearly only those who are old enough to be legally responsible for crimes or those who have spoken to Trump in the last 2 years.
Although, now Melania is off the hook! Marital strife burn!
So, yeah. The unremarked truth is that they just don't pursue white collar crimes because it doesn't play as well toward the electorate that sees themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
All this Manafort/Cohen/Trump stuff won't sustain itself. So enjoy it while it lasts.
The problem here is that it's Lanny Davis and Michael Cohen.
And cohen. Like if there was any proof to that effect, we would be golden. But yeah these two? not trusting a thing.
pleasepaypreacher.net
It's Cohen so I 100% believe he recorded the conversation on video with the camera pointed directly at Trump's face.
I’m not saying we should be credulous of every claim, just the credible ones. It’s probably that Mueller already has the proof though.
pleasepaypreacher.net
If it was going to be anyone, it would have been Cohen, or Vlad himself.
With this yahoo I feel like it would actually be a shaky video of the ground and then finally Cohen’s face as he realizes he was accidentally filing and quickly shuts it off, followed by a cut to a previously recorded video of Cohen playing “Star Wars” in his garage with a golf club as a pretend light saber.
If Cohen has proof then it was probably already grabbed in the raid of his office.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
I forgot about this! So much to keep track of!
Yeah, Mueller likely has everything.
I still think corroborating testimony from Cohen is beneficial, however, "Yes, that's me on the tape speaking to the president."
e- Damn it, hedge!
So basically the worst manager you ever had? He’s the President now.
But the point is that he does not feel like he has to be silent if someone does not display unwavering, unquestioning loyalty to him (and the loyalty is rarely, if ever, reciprocated). Au contraire, lashing out at perceived traitors is second nature to him.
Which makes his (relative) silence on Cohen’s public betrayal... deafening.
I'm not holding my breath but I bet at least a few more cases come out of this
This is a good point, and probably why he was still able to cut a deal.
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All of it. The NY real estate industry, from what has been said, is basically built on money laundering.
It's a problem of scale. Just as they talk of banks being "too big to fail", you reach a point where, practically speaking, there's neither the resources nor the will to conduct a thorough, no-tolerance purge of [X], where [X] is an industry literally built on corruption, illegal labor practices, etc etc. Where do you even start?... and if you did, somehow, manage to actually do it, the whole thing would just collapse without all the crime propping it up. (see also, agriculture in this most countries.)
Also it might literally destroy the New York economy, if I correctly recall an interview from Pod Save America.
That's right, real estate crime in NYC is 'too big to fail'.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Eh, you just do it one step at a time, focusing on the most recent crimes and forgiving past criminals who cooperate. Too big to fail just means too big to burn down, not too big to control.
That's what I was trying to get at, yes. Thank you.
That assumes that the market isn't heavily dependent on crime in order to exist at all in its current form.
It might be possible to construct some version of the NYC real estate market that isn't based around crime, but I'm not sure what it would look like, and you'd pretty much have to tear it all down to the foundation and start over. And then zealously weed, or you'll just wind up with the same thing in ten or twenty or fifty years.
Not just New York, but London, Vancouver, San Fran, and so on.
Recent events have made it hard to ignore just how incredibly corrupt the Western culture is.
Yes. The whole point of saying NYC real estate is dependant on crime is that the industry depends on people pouring money into it to launder said money in order to keep going. Trump is deeply entrenched in the seediest end of this because no one else would give him money.
This is not really unique to NYC either and manifests itself in a bunch of cities around the western world.
I hate to break it to you, but Eastern Culture(whatever that is) also isn't doing too great.
The human condition is kind of a bag of dicks right now.
I'm paraphrasing but not really.
Right now? Guy was tweeting at 1 AM. That is not enough sleep.
They taped the interview earlier Wednesday.
"Who will rid me of this turbulent lawyer?"
That would surely lead to a more robust system of justice. Obviously, we do not need testimony from people who know about crimes for the justice system to work.
It also helps in the national zeitgeist. I'm seeing headlines all over the national media saying "Cohen implicates Trump" or something along those lines. And for people who aren't either Fox News viewers or spend every waking moment watching this stuff like we do, they just see headlines saying Trump's personal attorney is out there saying "yes Trump knew all this stuff and he's a big super criminal", it does a lot for those middle of the road voters who don't pay attention constantly to every little thing.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
He also said he knows all about it and has had many friends involved in this sort of stuff. (?!)
Here’s the video because honestly the quotes just do not do this mess justice.
Josh is with TPM, but the clip is Fox News.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
I give them the omerosa treatment. They are human garbage but if they have tapes or hard evidence then I am willing to listen.