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[Michael Cohen] Cohen cooperating conditionally, could connect POTUS

So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
edited November 2018 in Debate and/or Discourse
This thread is about the SDNY cases against Michael Cohen. (Note this is not a Mueller prosecution, but he handed information to SDNY so they could prosecute)

You can also discuss Stormy Daniels stuff and stuff about Cohen taking bribes in this thread.

Mueller discussion stays in the Mueller thread. Manafort trial discussion is not on topic here.

This isn't a general Trump thread. We also don't need every crazy tweet of his reposted here unless it's very relevant.

Previous OP:
So, today, the FBI raided the office of Michael Cohen.

And his New York residence. And his temporary residence at the Lowes Regency Hotel.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/04/09/politics/michael-cohen-fbi/index.html



Erica Orden is a reporter for the WSJ

Ostensibly to gather documentation on the Stormy Daniels scandal, but likely searching for more.
A person briefed on the search told the Times that the FBI also seized emails, tax documents and business records, including communications between Trump and Cohen.

This is huge for several reasons, not the least that this was a no-knock raid of an attorney for a sitting US President, that included seizing communications between an attorney and his clients. That a judge signed off on this warrant means there had to have been a near-incontrovertible amount of evidence showing this raid would produce evidence of a crime or crimes. This came about from information Robert Mueller brought to acting Attorney General Rosenstein, and Rosenstein authorized the FBI to take action. The US Attorney for the Southern District of New York executed the search warrants.

The President has responded, in the expected fashion.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/after-fbi-raids-cohens-office-trump-calls-probe-an-attack-on-our-country
“So I just heard that they broke into the office of one of my personal attorneys, a good man, and it’s a disgraceful situation,” Trump told reporters at the start of a meeting with military brass and national security advisers. In fact, Cohen’s own lawyer acknowledged in a statement that the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York had “executed a series of search warrants,” which would have to be approved by a federal judge.

“It’s a total witch hunt,” he continued. “I’ve been saying it for a long time. I’ve wanted to keep it down. We’ve given, I believe, over a million pages worth of documents to the special counsel. They continue to just go forward.”

“I have this witch hunt constantly going on for over 12 months now,” Trump said, adding: “It’s an attack on our country, in a true sense. It’s an attack on what we all stand for.”

Trump called Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s office “the most conflicted group of people I have ever seen” and complained, as he often has, about Attorney General Jeff Sessions recusing himself from Russia- and campaign-related matters.

“He should have certainly let us know if he was going to recuse himself and we would have put a different attorney general in,” Trump said of Sessions. “So he made what I consider to be a very terrible mistake for the country.”

Trump complained that no one “is looking at the other side,” a reference to Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server.

After concluding his comments, Trump listened to reporters’ shouted questions and repeated one: “Why don’t I just fire Mueller?” he wondered aloud.

“Well, I think it’s a disgrace what’s going on. We’ll see what happens. But I think it’s really a sad situation when you look at what happened.”

“And many people have said you should fire him,” he continued. “Again they found nothing and in finding nothing that’s a big statement. If you know the person who’s in charge of the investigation, you know all about that. Deputy Rosenstein, Rod Rosenstein, he wrote the letter very critical of Comey.”

Now quit trying to get infracted in the Mueller thread!

So It Goes on
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Posts

  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    mxmarks wrote: »


    ABC is saying he's reached a plea deal.

    Karen Travers is an ABC reporter

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I'm still waiting on details. I WANT TO BELIEVE!

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    edited August 2018
    So much for a guy that would never flip.

    E: Dying to know what he gave up.

    silence1186 on
  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Another ABC reporter repeats the news!

  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    So is it a coincidence that this is happening the same morning as the manafort trial or did he realize people might actually start getting pinned for stuff and decided it wasn't worth it?

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
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  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    So is it a coincidence that this is happening the same morning as the manafort trial or did he realize people might actually start getting pinned for stuff and decided it wasn't worth it?

    I think it's somewhat of a coincidence as to this happening today, but I'm sure watching the Manafort trial unfold with mountains of financial evidence helped motivate him and his lawyers.

  • CommunistCowCommunistCow Abstract Metal ThingyRegistered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    So is it a coincidence that this is happening the same morning as the manafort trial or did he realize people might actually start getting pinned for stuff and decided it wasn't worth it?

    I'm guessing coincidence. If he was really worried about the Manafort trial he would probably wait until after the verdict.

    No, I am not really communist. Yes, it is weird that I use this name.
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    They were confident enough to interrupt "The Chew" on ABC to run a live report that he accepted a plea deal.

    So, that is a lot of egg on ABC's face if they got ahead of this incorrectly.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    So is it a coincidence that this is happening the same morning as the manafort trial or did he realize people might actually start getting pinned for stuff and decided it wasn't worth it?

    I'm guessing coincidence. If he was really worried about the Manafort trial he would probably wait until after the verdict.

    I don't think he'd luck out with judges in NY but I could be wrong

  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    So much for a guy that would never flip.

    E: Dying to know what he gave up.
    Calibrate expectations; CNN's source is saying it is not a cooperation deal.
    The details of the plea are still being negotiated, the sources cautioned, and talks could fall apart. The US Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York is investigating Cohen for potential bank fraud, tax fraud and campaign finance violations. If talks fall apart, federal prosecutors are expected to indict Cohen.

    As part of the plea deal under discussion, Cohen is not expected to cooperate with the government, one source said. However, by pleading guilty both Cohen and prosecutors would avoid the spectacle and uncertainty of a trial.

    Though I would be a little surprised if he willingly goes down for campaign fraud without giving up the guy who ordered it.

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    So is it a coincidence that this is happening the same morning as the manafort trial or did he realize people might actually start getting pinned for stuff and decided it wasn't worth it?

    I think he’s started to rapidly reevaluate things once he learned that he’s looking at about 20 million dollars worth of fraud and Trump is hanging him out to dry.

  • FawstFawst The road to awe.Registered User regular
    So much for a guy that would never flip.

    E: Dying to know what he gave up.
    Calibrate expectations; CNN's source is saying it is not a cooperation deal.
    The details of the plea are still being negotiated, the sources cautioned, and talks could fall apart. The US Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York is investigating Cohen for potential bank fraud, tax fraud and campaign finance violations. If talks fall apart, federal prosecutors are expected to indict Cohen.

    As part of the plea deal under discussion, Cohen is not expected to cooperate with the government, one source said. However, by pleading guilty both Cohen and prosecutors would avoid the spectacle and uncertainty of a trial.

    Though I would be a little surprised if he willingly goes down for campaign fraud without giving up the guy who ordered it.

    I saw this as well. It makes no sense to me. What purpose does a "plea deal" serve with no deal? Why would the government accept that?

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Fawst wrote: »
    So much for a guy that would never flip.

    E: Dying to know what he gave up.
    Calibrate expectations; CNN's source is saying it is not a cooperation deal.
    The details of the plea are still being negotiated, the sources cautioned, and talks could fall apart. The US Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York is investigating Cohen for potential bank fraud, tax fraud and campaign finance violations. If talks fall apart, federal prosecutors are expected to indict Cohen.

    As part of the plea deal under discussion, Cohen is not expected to cooperate with the government, one source said. However, by pleading guilty both Cohen and prosecutors would avoid the spectacle and uncertainty of a trial.

    Though I would be a little surprised if he willingly goes down for campaign fraud without giving up the guy who ordered it.

    I saw this as well. It makes no sense to me. What purpose does a "plea deal" serve with no deal? Why would the government accept that?

    They see the manafort trial, they see that Cohen could get nothing, and they want to save money on a costly trial? Plenty of guilty people get plea deals who give up nothing other than not going to court.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    So much for a guy that would never flip.

    E: Dying to know what he gave up.
    Calibrate expectations; CNN's source is saying it is not a cooperation deal.
    The details of the plea are still being negotiated, the sources cautioned, and talks could fall apart. The US Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York is investigating Cohen for potential bank fraud, tax fraud and campaign finance violations. If talks fall apart, federal prosecutors are expected to indict Cohen.

    As part of the plea deal under discussion, Cohen is not expected to cooperate with the government, one source said. However, by pleading guilty both Cohen and prosecutors would avoid the spectacle and uncertainty of a trial.

    Though I would be a little surprised if he willingly goes down for campaign fraud without giving up the guy who ordered it.

    Balderdash.

  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Fawst wrote: »
    So much for a guy that would never flip.

    E: Dying to know what he gave up.
    Calibrate expectations; CNN's source is saying it is not a cooperation deal.
    The details of the plea are still being negotiated, the sources cautioned, and talks could fall apart. The US Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York is investigating Cohen for potential bank fraud, tax fraud and campaign finance violations. If talks fall apart, federal prosecutors are expected to indict Cohen.

    As part of the plea deal under discussion, Cohen is not expected to cooperate with the government, one source said. However, by pleading guilty both Cohen and prosecutors would avoid the spectacle and uncertainty of a trial.

    Though I would be a little surprised if he willingly goes down for campaign fraud without giving up the guy who ordered it.

    I saw this as well. It makes no sense to me. What purpose does a "plea deal" serve with no deal? Why would the government accept that?

    Yeah I think that's a weird thing for a source to confirm.

    Unless the prosecutors think there is some weakness in their evidence, which is kinda lol after all we've learned they found.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Additionally the easy guilty plea comes with an allocution to the crime which establishes the means pretty easily. This allucution can (?) be used as evidence of that specific crime occurring. This means that if you're trying someone else on a related matter you do not have to work as hard to prove that aspect of the crime

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  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Fawst wrote: »
    So much for a guy that would never flip.

    E: Dying to know what he gave up.
    Calibrate expectations; CNN's source is saying it is not a cooperation deal.
    The details of the plea are still being negotiated, the sources cautioned, and talks could fall apart. The US Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York is investigating Cohen for potential bank fraud, tax fraud and campaign finance violations. If talks fall apart, federal prosecutors are expected to indict Cohen.

    As part of the plea deal under discussion, Cohen is not expected to cooperate with the government, one source said. However, by pleading guilty both Cohen and prosecutors would avoid the spectacle and uncertainty of a trial.

    Though I would be a little surprised if he willingly goes down for campaign fraud without giving up the guy who ordered it.

    I saw this as well. It makes no sense to me. What purpose does a "plea deal" serve with no deal? Why would the government accept that?

    They see the manafort trial, they see that Cohen could get nothing, and they want to save money on a costly trial? Plenty of guilty people get plea deals who give up nothing other than not going to court.

    "Saving money" has got to be at the bottom of the list for an outfit that raided the President's lawyer's office. This case has huge implications and they know it. Saving money isn't going to really enter into things here.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Fawst wrote: »
    So much for a guy that would never flip.

    E: Dying to know what he gave up.
    Calibrate expectations; CNN's source is saying it is not a cooperation deal.
    The details of the plea are still being negotiated, the sources cautioned, and talks could fall apart. The US Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York is investigating Cohen for potential bank fraud, tax fraud and campaign finance violations. If talks fall apart, federal prosecutors are expected to indict Cohen.

    As part of the plea deal under discussion, Cohen is not expected to cooperate with the government, one source said. However, by pleading guilty both Cohen and prosecutors would avoid the spectacle and uncertainty of a trial.

    Though I would be a little surprised if he willingly goes down for campaign fraud without giving up the guy who ordered it.

    I saw this as well. It makes no sense to me. What purpose does a "plea deal" serve with no deal? Why would the government accept that?

    Yeah I think that's a weird thing for a source to confirm.

    Unless the prosecutors think there is some weakness in their evidence, which is kinda lol after all we've learned they found.

    It could also be that neither side wants cooperation to be public. I don't think every aspect of a plea has to be made public. Especially if neither side want one aspect of it to be.

    It could also be that Cohen is folding because he is out of money and sees a plea as a path to a reduced sentence while he is now unable to effectively fight because he cannot afford competent counsel.

    wbBv3fj.png
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    So much for a guy that would never flip.

    E: Dying to know what he gave up.
    Calibrate expectations; CNN's source is saying it is not a cooperation deal.
    The details of the plea are still being negotiated, the sources cautioned, and talks could fall apart. The US Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York is investigating Cohen for potential bank fraud, tax fraud and campaign finance violations. If talks fall apart, federal prosecutors are expected to indict Cohen.

    As part of the plea deal under discussion, Cohen is not expected to cooperate with the government, one source said. However, by pleading guilty both Cohen and prosecutors would avoid the spectacle and uncertainty of a trial.

    Though I would be a little surprised if he willingly goes down for campaign fraud without giving up the guy who ordered it.

    Balderdash.

    Hopefully. I could certainly see them wanting to be quiet about it.

  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Fawst wrote: »
    So much for a guy that would never flip.

    E: Dying to know what he gave up.
    Calibrate expectations; CNN's source is saying it is not a cooperation deal.
    The details of the plea are still being negotiated, the sources cautioned, and talks could fall apart. The US Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York is investigating Cohen for potential bank fraud, tax fraud and campaign finance violations. If talks fall apart, federal prosecutors are expected to indict Cohen.

    As part of the plea deal under discussion, Cohen is not expected to cooperate with the government, one source said. However, by pleading guilty both Cohen and prosecutors would avoid the spectacle and uncertainty of a trial.

    Though I would be a little surprised if he willingly goes down for campaign fraud without giving up the guy who ordered it.

    I saw this as well. It makes no sense to me. What purpose does a "plea deal" serve with no deal? Why would the government accept that?

    Yeah I think that's a weird thing for a source to confirm.

    Unless the prosecutors think there is some weakness in their evidence, which is kinda lol after all we've learned they found.

    It could also be that neither side wants cooperation to be public. I don't think every aspect of a plea has to be made public. Especially if neither side want one aspect of it to be.

    It could also be that Cohen is folding because he is out of money and sees a plea as a path to a reduced sentence while he is now unable to effectively fight because he cannot afford competent counsel.

    Also, perhaps it adds an innate strength to certain aspects of other trials? If Cohen takes the plea deal, he's admitting guilt, so he's an admitted convicted criminal. If he fights and loses, he's convicted, but he'll be able to protest his innocence through trials and the like.

    And while I'm not sure it can be brought up explicitly (in a legal sense), I'm sure it can be inferred that taking the deal means that not only did he admit it, he pretty much knew he was going down for it.

    Depending on the haircut the prosecution offers on sentencing, this could absolutely be seen as significant upside.

  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Ok they’re using US media as the source but BBC NEWS ARE NOW REPORTING THAT MICHAEL COHEN HAS TAKEN A PLEA DEAL OMG YOU GUYS IT MIGHT ACTUALLY BE HAPPENING!

  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    Trump hired the best people.

  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Shimon Propecz is a CNN reporter



    So they must have something ironed out.

  • TetraRayTetraRay Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Shimon Propecz is a CNN reporter



    So they must have something ironed out.

    Is it wrong to take this to mean he has flipped to some degree?

    Steam ID: TetraRay
  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    This Friday keeps getting weirder, I am starting to wish I didn't actually have to go to work tomorrow.

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    Sometimes I sell my stuff on Ebay
  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    BRB cooking every single popcorn kernel I have in the house...

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    TetraRay wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Shimon Propecz is a CNN reporter



    So they must have something ironed out.

    Is it wrong to take this to mean he has flipped to some degree?

    We had news earlier its not a cooperation agreement. So we'll find out I guess. I'm assuming again its to save a trial on both sides. We get nothing world keeps turning. Cohen probably gets less than five years.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    TetraRay wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Shimon Propecz is a CNN reporter



    So they must have something ironed out.

    Is it wrong to take this to mean he has flipped to some degree?

    We had news earlier its not a cooperation agreement. So we'll find out I guess. I'm assuming again its to save a trial on both sides. We get nothing world keeps turning. Cohen probably gets less than five years.

    Avenatti is saying he's 100% that Cohen is cooperating with information damaging to the President right now on MSNBC.

    11793-1.png
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    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    TetraRay wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Shimon Propecz is a CNN reporter



    So they must have something ironed out.

    Is it wrong to take this to mean he has flipped to some degree?

    We had news earlier its not a cooperation agreement. So we'll find out I guess. I'm assuming again its to save a trial on both sides. We get nothing world keeps turning. Cohen probably gets less than five years.

    Only "one source" said that and I'm extremely skeptical. That's the whole point of a plea deal in this type of case. Roll up the mobster to the boss mobster.

  • KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    Avenatti is saying a lot of things

    He also has a vested interest in playing up the consequences for Trump, considering that he is currently planning to run against him

    KGMvDLc.jpg?1
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    TetraRay wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Shimon Propecz is a CNN reporter



    So they must have something ironed out.

    Is it wrong to take this to mean he has flipped to some degree?

    We had news earlier its not a cooperation agreement. So we'll find out I guess. I'm assuming again its to save a trial on both sides. We get nothing world keeps turning. Cohen probably gets less than five years.

    Avenatti is saying he's 100% that Cohen is cooperating with information damaging to the President right now on MSNBC.

    Avenatti is 100% about getting his name in the papers. I'm not trusting anything until we see it because again we've been down this road before.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    This Friday keeps getting weirder, I am starting to wish I didn't actually have to go to work tomorrow.

    I had to doublecheck and make sure it wasn’t infrastructure week again.

  • PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    MSNBC (sorry TV so no link) just showed Cohen walking into the FBI field office in NYC, apparently surrendering.

    11793-1.png
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    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    It’s remarkably surprising to see how many of Trump’s inner circle are now admitted criminals.

    px2gcjxug26a.jpeg

  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    And now we play the waiting game to see if this is the final card that collapses the whole house.

    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    Cohen to plea on tax fraud, bank fraud and campaign finance violations per MSNBC

    11793-1.png
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    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    Cohen to plea on tax fraud, bank fraud and campaign finance violations per MSNBC

    What were the potential campaign finance violations again? I forget if it were directly related to the Trump campaign and settlements to keep the affairs out of the news.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    NYT is on it? The actual article doesn't say for certain.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/21/nyregion/michael-cohen-plea-deal-trump.html
    Trump’s Former Fixer, Michael Cohen, Reaches a Plea Agreement Over Payments to Women
    Michael Cohen, President Trump’s former lawyer, reached a plea agreement with prosecutors investigating payments he made to women for Mr. Trump, a person familiar with the matter said.

    Prosecutors in New York had been scrutinizing Mr. Cohen for bank and tax fraud, as well as for his role in helping to arrange financial deals to secure the silence of women who said they had affairs with Mr. Trump.

    Couscous on
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    I feel like a free for all for pardons will be ensuing in the next few months with 'aides' saying later that trump began asking on 8/21/2018 if he was allowed to 'prepardon' people

  • PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Couscous wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    Cohen to plea on tax fraud, bank fraud and campaign finance violations per MSNBC

    What were the potential campaign finance violations again? I forget if it were directly related to the Trump campaign and settlements to keep the affairs out of the news.

    If paying off Stormy Daniels was related to the campaign, they are required to report it to the FEC either as a donation by Cohen or by Trump himself (as well as an expenditure)

    PantsB on
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This discussion has been closed.