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There is no such thing as a moral or immoral [book] thread

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  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    I'll watch what I want

  • ioloiolo iolo Registered User regular
    I've always had a soft spot for Mort. But it has been a long, long time...

    Lt. Iolo's First Day
    Steam profile.
    Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    Of course Terry Pratchett is far from the only writer who does this, but the more I read of him the more annoyed I get by his habit of vaguely describing something mysterious happening over there so you keep reading to find out what it is. I'm already reading your book, you don't need to tease me so I don't wander off during a commercial break!

    Happiness is within reach!
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    webguy20 wrote: »
    This is the chart I go off of.

    mxevu5ngrtd8.jpg

    What the fuck is this you cant watch a novel.

    Boo this man!

    Boo!

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    I’m a little annoyed at the constant “Vetinari knows exactly what is going on but chooses not to explain or communicate it to anyone in any real way because if he did the book would be 10 pages long”

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
  • Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    I’m a little annoyed at the constant “Vetinari knows exactly what is going on but chooses not to explain or communicate it to anyone in any real way because if he did the book would be 10 pages long”

    What good is a patrician without an extensive network of spies?

  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    The Patrician is a dictator in the same way Granny Weatherwax is a witch. Most of his skill lies in knowing when not to wield power.

    Also his general omniscience makes the moments where he is surprised all the sweeter.

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    tynic wrote: »
    The Patrician is a dictator in the same way Granny Weatherwax is a witch. Most of his skill lies in knowing when not to wield power.

    Also his general omniscience makes the moments where he is surprised all the sweeter.

    Like in Men at Arms.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Or just in general whenever the Watch needs a new dartboard.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Yea Vetinari is a ruler who is hands off. He knows that the city will actually run better if the watch runs itself and Vimes actually becomes a better leader, and the guilds fight each other, and all of it. He rarely actually has to do anything besides traffic in information. He rarely actually has to wield absolute power, but his sheer presence is enough to stave off almost all competition.

    Steam ID: Webguy20
    Origin ID: Discgolfer27
    Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Speaking of which, it’s almost time for my perennial reread of my Prachett books.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • smofsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    I don't totally understand that chart. Do you just read each row of books separately? Do the different plotlines not connect at all?

    I've read Colour of Magic, Guards Guards, Mort and maybe 1 or 2 others I can't remember. Keep saying I will read them all one day but man that's a lot of books

  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    I think it’s just a way to sort them for folks like me who came to Pratchett very late and want some semblance of order. Plus if you like a particular character or set of characters it’s easier to follow than just googling “is so-and-so in this one?”

    So if you liked Guards! Guards! and want to read more about the Watch, you know the next one is Men at Arms. And so on.

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
  • DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    I don't totally understand that chart. Do you just read each row of books separately? Do the different plotlines not connect at all?

    I've read Colour of Magic, Guards Guards, Mort and maybe 1 or 2 others I can't remember. Keep saying I will read them all one day but man that's a lot of books

    The connections are minimal. You can generally read a whole plot thread with minimal issues if you haven't read the others - at most you might be surprised by the technological advances that happened in the meantime.

    Steam ID: Right here.
  • David_TDavid_T A fashion yes-man is no good to me. Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered User regular
    The Discworld series is more like the Discworld universe than one long interconnected story. As characters become more established, you're more likely to see them added to the sorta background tapestry that the story plays out against, but the big constant is the evolution of the Discworld in general and the city of Ankh Morpork specifically, that's the thing that connects the different books.

    So, yeah, you can read an entire row as a stand alone and the only thing that'll really happen is that, for instance, you might be introduced to a journalist before you've read the book where the whole concept of journalism on the Disc is established.

    This only goes up to Thud! in the Watch series, but it's a different chart that shows more of the timeline difference between books. Half of the Watch books take place between Moving Pictures and The Truth, for instance.
    692e33e4150885899fd6735245c62a6d.gif

    13iepvv6o8ip.png
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    I don't totally understand that chart. Do you just read each row of books separately? Do the different plotlines not connect at all?

    I've read Colour of Magic, Guards Guards, Mort and maybe 1 or 2 others I can't remember. Keep saying I will read them all one day but man that's a lot of books

    The Discworld books have a few general main characters, and for those characters certain books have a certain order to them Chronologically. Like, Carrot and Vimes are introduced in Guards! Guards! But Detritus and Angua don’t appear until Men at Arms and they don’t become sergeants until Feet of Clay.

    There are some little connections between the books. Death appears in every book, for example, but he has a whole few books that specifically deal with Death and his domain. Small gods introduces the monks of history, thief of time specifically stars them, and then they reappear in Night Watch (the watch book that has time travel).

    The general rule is that you only need to know about the previous books of a particular Discworld series to follow the plot of that series, but there are Easter eggs for people who read them all.

    And the book ‘series’ each can have wildly different tones. I am no fan of the Rincewind books, but I love the Watch books and the Death books. The Death books also tend to be more philosophical than others.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    As a weak? protest of Columbus Day, I bought some books

    Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee, by Dee Brown

    House Made of Dawn, by N. Scott Momaday


    The American Indian Ready to Wear Catalog 2018, by Joey Clift

    And as a protest against my parents, I bought A People's History of the United States, by Howard Zinn

    I really need to get home soon, I cannot see the polite veneer over these arguments with my parents lasting much longer

  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    I've been reading through them in published order because I'm weird.

    Moving Pictures has kinda bogged me down. I dunno.

  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    I've been reading through them in published order because I'm weird.

    Moving Pictures has kinda bogged me down. I dunno.

    It's one of the weakest ones, though I like Windle Poons and Reg Shoe

  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    I still haven't continued the last aching book. I started it shortly after Pratchett's death, which was really the only celebrity death that ever had an emotional impact on me and the first few dozen pages hit me really hard. It's the only discworld book I haven't finished yet.

  • David_TDavid_T A fashion yes-man is no good to me. Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »
    I've been reading through them in published order because I'm weird.

    Moving Pictures has kinda bogged me down. I dunno.

    It's one of the weakest ones, though I like Windle Poons and Reg Shoe

    Reaper Man, the next in line, is the one that introduces Windle Poons and Reg Shoe. It's also the one that I forever thought had one of my favorite quotes in it (“"My motives, as ever, are entirely transparent."
    Hughnon reflected that 'entirely transparent' meant either that you could see right through them or that you couldn't see them at all.”), but that's actually a much later quote I'm now realizing.

    Moving Pictures gave us Gaspode, so it can't be all bad, but it's otherwise forgettable. It feels kinda like a thematic first draft of Soul Music.

    13iepvv6o8ip.png
  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    David_T wrote: »
    tynic wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »
    I've been reading through them in published order because I'm weird.

    Moving Pictures has kinda bogged me down. I dunno.

    It's one of the weakest ones, though I like Windle Poons and Reg Shoe

    Reaper Man, the next in line, is the one that introduces Windle Poons and Reg Shoe. It's also the one that I forever thought had one of my favorite quotes in it (“"My motives, as ever, are entirely transparent."
    Hughnon reflected that 'entirely transparent' meant either that you could see right through them or that you couldn't see them at all.”), but that's actually a much later quote I'm now realizing.

    Moving Pictures gave us Gaspode, so it can't be all bad, but it's otherwise forgettable. It feels kinda like a thematic first draft of Soul Music.

    oh you're right, I totally spaced on which plot happened in which.

    Yeah Moving Pictures isn't great.

  • smofsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    Finished Nemesis Games. That there was a real good Expanse book. My reservation of the next one is still pending so I picked up a couple of things for while I wait. Fools and Mortals by Bernard Cornwell, starring William Shakespeare's brother, and Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Sausages by Tom Holt. I remember enjoying some of his stuff years ago so I guess I'll see if he holds up.

  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    I have been gifted the first two books in the Vorkosigan Saga, so I guess that's my next undertaking

  • TynnanTynnan seldom correct, never unsure Registered User regular
    Over the weekend I was listening to LeVar Burton Reads, and his reading of Ken Liu's The Paper Menagerie utterly destroyed me. That episode is not safe for highway driving, folks.

  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    Omg omg I just started Night Watch

    Speculation ho!
    So a bunch of main characters are wearing commemorative lilacs for some tragic event that happened in the past, and one involved was John Keel who’s this almost mythic figure in their minds. And Vimes, when he goes back in time, picks the name because it’s been on his mind due to the anniversary, but it’s going to turn out that he’s the John Keel everyone is mourning.

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Ho! Ho! Ho! Drink Coke!Registered User regular
    Just finished Mortal Engines, which I decided to check out because of the movie coming up. It's not bad! The writing is fairly engaging and moves at a good clip. It feels very YA, but nobody is the Special Chosen One, there's actually a bit of a surplus of sympathetic protagonists.
    I was really surprised in the climax, all of a sudden Pod dies, Katherine dies, and then all of London dies. Not even the good Historians make it out alive.

    I did like how Valentine was revealed to be a fairly contemptible and pathetic figure, but the other villains, like Crome and Dr. Twix, didn't get basically any characterization, which made their downfall feel kind of weightless. I am curious where the following books go.

  • Lost SalientLost Salient blink twice if you'd like me to mercy kill youRegistered User regular
    Tynnan wrote: »
    Over the weekend I was listening to LeVar Burton Reads, and his reading of Ken Liu's The Paper Menagerie utterly destroyed me. That episode is not safe for highway driving, folks.

    Seriously, so much crying. On the subway, for me.

    RUVCwyu.jpg
    "Sandra has a good solid anti-murderer vibe. My skin felt very secure and sufficiently attached to my body when I met her. Also my organs." HAIL SATAN
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    Omg omg I just started Night Watch

    Speculation ho!
    So a bunch of main characters are wearing commemorative lilacs for some tragic event that happened in the past, and one involved was John Keel who’s this almost mythic figure in their minds. And Vimes, when he goes back in time, picks the name because it’s been on his mind due to the anniversary, but it’s going to turn out that he’s the John Keel everyone is mourning.

    You are in for a trip.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • TynnanTynnan seldom correct, never unsure Registered User regular
    edited October 2018
    Tynnan wrote: »
    Over the weekend I was listening to LeVar Burton Reads, and his reading of Ken Liu's The Paper Menagerie utterly destroyed me. That episode is not safe for highway driving, folks.

    Seriously, so much crying. On the subway, for me.

    It starts off as a Calvin and Hobbes-esque story about a multiracial child growing up, and then drops an anvil on your face. A beautiful, heartfelt anvil, but still. It was an incredible story.

    Tynnan on
  • UrielUriel Registered User regular
    Hey book thread.

    It's going have been almost 100 years now in a year or two, and I'd like to read up on the subject because the topic of protest and such is forever going to be topical...

    So ya'll have recommendations for some basic entry level, easy to read (in like... structure, I know the content can get... rough.) books on the history of women's suffrage in the USA? Particularly Susan B Anthony's trial and the Silent Sentinels.

  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    edited October 2018
    Finished Night Watch. That did not disappoint.

    I’m also glad I chose to hold off on it until I’d read the other Watch books. It’s actually the one I bought first, silly me thinking by the name that it would be the first one. But reading the others first gave me a much better understanding of the various players and the city itself, as it were.

    Next up is probably The Library at Mount Char or Provenance.

    knitdan on
    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
  • JedocJedoc In the scuppers with the staggers and jagsRegistered User regular
    So I just finished The Last Argument of Kings by Joe Abercrombie.

    What the hell was any of that? It turns out that everything sucks, in hell, forever?

    Screw that entire series. I don't think I have time for any of that in this place and in this time.

    GDdCWMm.jpg
  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    Welcome to Joe Abercrombie

    Where everyone’s an asshole, everything sucks and nothing matters

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    I read Ship It, by Britta Lundin, whose day job is a staff writer on Riverdale. It drags a bit in spots but is very cute and funny and holy crap so specific to a certain internet space that Lundin mentions that the first several people she explained her book concept to were just like, "....I don't get it."

    Ship It is about a 16 year old girl named Claire, a superfan of Demon Heart, a shitty CW style budget genre show which is most definitely supposed to remind you of Supernatural. Claire loves the show because it is super queer-baity, and she fills her days writing slash fics of the two male leads, which she's sure will be canon any day now. Not that she's gay, she definitely wants you to know she's not gay, she just like, cares a lot about queer representation, or whatever. Some wacky hijinks go down at a signing and she ends up winning a chance to go on tour with the crew of the show to a couple of other comic conventions in the northwest. Claire resolves that it's obviously her duty to the fandom to talk the showrunner, or the star, or at least one of the marketing interns into admitting how fucking gay their show is while they're stuck with her around.

    This would probably be an obnoxious book coming from a lot of authors, but Lundin is pretty obviously writing from a place of a lot of familiarity - growing up as a tumblr-dwelling queer fan herself, and then also someone who's actually involved in real TV production from the other side, there's a fun collision between the fan belief that everything in a show exists for a reason, and the TV-people who exist in a world of just trying to get the dailies finished on time and on budget and the fans are obsessed with what now?? And it has some interesting conversations about representation, and who canon belongs to and wtf that means anyway, and it's also just kind of interesting to get a first-person perspective from a queer female fan who's obsessed with male/male romances, which is something that comes up a lot in like yaoi and those kinds of fan spaces as well.

    So yeah, was very surprised how much I enjoyed it. Pretty much only complaint was that the passages of fanfic totally lasted too long, even if it does have some excellently hilarious interludes like Claire trying to google up "gay porn reacharound" at her school library so she can figure out how to write her sex scene.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    I'm currently reading The Manual of Detection by Jedediah Berry. It's kind of a... I'm not sure if it's surrealism or magical realism, mostly because I'm not sure of the defining characteristics of each. It's a detective novel where everyone is sort of aware of the roles and tropes they embody within the story, and a lot of things proceed by a certain level of dream logic (in some cases literally; there are crimes carried out inside dreams). I'm enjoying it but I feel like I could not at all predict who else would and would not like it

    I finished this today
    The best way I could describe it is, what if Inception was about dream detectives instead of dream heists?
    It's a little more whimsical than that, and does a better job of conjuring up what most dreams actually feel like, but the methods described for using dreams to lure people into revealing sensitive information are almost an exact match. And this book actually came out a year BEFORE Inception did

    It also becomes pretty clear that it's making some allegories about government surveillance overreach, and depending on how subtle you think it is, you may or may not dig it

    I liked it a lot!

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    my personal preference for Discworld reading order is publishing order

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    I finally started Long Way to a Small Angry Planet and holy shit I love this

  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    I finally started Long Way to a Small Angry Planet and holy shit I love this
    IT'S SO GOOD

    CYpGAPn.png
  • YaYaYaYa Decent. Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    I read Ship It, by Britta Lundin, whose day job is a staff writer on Riverdale. It drags a bit in spots but is very cute and funny and holy crap so specific to a certain internet space that Lundin mentions that the first several people she explained her book concept to were just like, "....I don't get it."

    Ship It is about a 16 year old girl named Claire, a superfan of Demon Heart, a shitty CW style budget genre show which is most definitely supposed to remind you of Supernatural. Claire loves the show because it is super queer-baity, and she fills her days writing slash fics of the two male leads, which she's sure will be canon any day now. Not that she's gay, she definitely wants you to know she's not gay, she just like, cares a lot about queer representation, or whatever. Some wacky hijinks go down at a signing and she ends up winning a chance to go on tour with the crew of the show to a couple of other comic conventions in the northwest. Claire resolves that it's obviously her duty to the fandom to talk the showrunner, or the star, or at least one of the marketing interns into admitting how fucking gay their show is while they're stuck with her around.

    This would probably be an obnoxious book coming from a lot of authors, but Lundin is pretty obviously writing from a place of a lot of familiarity - growing up as a tumblr-dwelling queer fan herself, and then also someone who's actually involved in real TV production from the other side, there's a fun collision between the fan belief that everything in a show exists for a reason, and the TV-people who exist in a world of just trying to get the dailies finished on time and on budget and the fans are obsessed with what now?? And it has some interesting conversations about representation, and who canon belongs to and wtf that means anyway, and it's also just kind of interesting to get a first-person perspective from a queer female fan who's obsessed with male/male romances, which is something that comes up a lot in like yaoi and those kinds of fan spaces as well.

    So yeah, was very surprised how much I enjoyed it. Pretty much only complaint was that the passages of fanfic totally lasted too long, even if it does have some excellently hilarious interludes like Claire trying to google up "gay porn reacharound" at her school library so she can figure out how to write her sex scene.

    I’m friends with Britta! I can tell you with certainty that she was the most qualified person in the world to write Ship It, and your take on her familiarity with both worlds is spot on

This discussion has been closed.