I think it got optioned before he died, then kicked around in development hell, and has ultimately wound up with whatever we have here except the rights agreement was already signed years ago so her hands are tied.
I think earlier it was mentioned that between development hell and pterry's death, it switched production companies so it endef being something completely different and basically cut her out in all butt name.
I think it got optioned before he died, then kicked around in development hell, and has ultimately wound up with whatever we have here except the rights agreement was already signed years ago so her hands are tied.
I think earlier it was mentioned that between development hell and pterry's death, it switched production companies so it endef being something completely different and basically cut her out in all butt name.
The original plan from nearly a decade ago was, apparently, that this show would have been the canon continuation of the books.
Given what it's turned into, I'm not shocked that Rhianna might be pretty pissed off by it, especially since it sounds like the show producers used her father's death to justify changing it so heavily.
Also, unfortunately The Shepherd's Crown just isn't very good. Obviously, as with his last few books, the Embuggerance took a toll on the writing but to me it read like an unfinished draft.
Contemplate this on the Tree of Woe
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
I feel like a large part of the "unfinished" quality of those last few books was less on Sir Terry and more on the editing. Raising Steam definitely has this appearance of "we're not going to cut anything because these could be/are Terry's last words". And I totally get just deciding not to undertake such a thankless and disheartening task as editing Terry's work without Terry's input.
But also, I think most writers throughout history would be mortified if you put every note ever scribbled on a cocktail napkin on the page and published it as one of their works, much less their final work
Sir Terry would probably have some pretty great jokes about Death of the Author to follow that with...
It would be great if there was someone able to write up a more polished expanded version
(IDK why Sir Terry willed all his hard drives to be destroyed... such a loss...)
I feel like a large part of the "unfinished" quality of those last few books was less on Sir Terry and more on the editing. Raising Steam definitely has this appearance of "we're not going to cut anything because these could be/are Terry's last words". And I totally get just deciding not to undertake such a thankless and disheartening task as editing Terry's work without Terry's input.
But also, I think most writers throughout history would be mortified if you put every note ever scribbled on a cocktail napkin on the page and published it as one of their works, much less their final work
Sir Terry would probably have some pretty great jokes about Death of the Author to follow that with...
It's funny you say that because the last collection of his previously unpublished short stories (The Time-Traveling Caveman) is coming out in September. It's a bunch of things he wrote for newspapers while he was still a journalist. I found the other collections.... hit or miss, you can hear his voice in them but you can tell he was still figuring things out. Which is fine and normal and to be expected but I don't know that I need to read every single 'first draft' from someone, even someone I love as much as Terry.
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
It would be great if there was someone able to write up a more polished expanded version
(IDK why Sir Terry willed all his hard drives to be destroyed... such a loss...)
I would guess because they were filled with half-baked ideas that he didn't want anybody to mistake as things he actually wanted published
...or he couldn't remember which ones were just his porn collection
He definitely felt that way, at least for works at a certain threshold of finished.
He did leave wishes to have the hard drive with his future book drafts destroyed by steamroller, after all (and it was).
[...or he couldn't remember which ones were just his porn collection
=0
Like a virtual version of Sir Joshua Lavish' closet?
The scandal!
PirateQueen on
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
Even if there's nothing you are particularly ashamed of, if you're not willing it to a museum or a curious relation, destroying your porn collection is a nice thing to do to help out whoever has to sort through your belongings after you pass.
As for Sir Joshua's collection, clearly everything that was demonstrably clean should have been donated to the local Goodwill equivalent to help those less fortunate than himself
On re-read, Raising Steam felt like he knew he wasn't going to get to write everything he wanted, so he tried to leave as many people and places as possible on a positive note.
Like the opposite of a cliffhanger. Not a resolution, but a positive trend so you can infer good things will happen rather than impending disaster.
Yeah, Raising Steam felt a bit like a return to the earliest Discworld books, less a traditional narrative and more a world travelogue, but this time to let everyone know how everyone was doing rather than show the breadth of what could be explored in future entries. It was a nice bookend (literally! ha!).
Love Going Postal so much - too bad that the screen adaptation was... um...
Good Omens rules - the scene you describe was so powerful (both in the book and the show) :heartbeat:
Btw, related question:
My partner got his Good Omens signed by Gaiman - does anyone have Pratchett's part so we find out what the complete message says?
Love Going Postal so much - too bad that the screen adaptation was... um...
Good Omens rules - the scene you describe was so powerful (both in the book and the show) :heartbeat:
Btw, related question:
My partner got his Good Omens signed by Gaiman - does anyone have Pratchett's part so we find out what the complete message says?
The first part of the Going Postal adaptation was very good. The second half had... issues.
I was prepared to find they thanked like, the main cast and top level crew, but that's like, they put in the effort to call out everyone in the credits who has an IG account and a dozen who don't and still managed to not include Sir Terry.
The more I think about the Watch the more I worry how terribly they’ll botch Vimes’ character. Assuming they’re still going to have him marry Sybil, making her a vigilante who goes around killing people with axes means Vimes as a character will have to be altered massively. In the novels he’s a man who is absolutely committed to the concept of justice over vengeance, making a mental note not to make a quippy one liner after killing Angua’s brother, because then it wouldn’t be self defence, it would be murder. Hell in Thud! his absolute belief that justice must be served over vengeance manifests as essentially the god of policemen, who confronts the ancient Dwarven embodiment of vengeance, and it doesn’t kill it, it arrests it.
To take a character like that and have him marry someone who ignores the law and goes about killing the people they feel deserve it is a total disservice to that character. Sybil isn’t getting off much better. In the books she was an extremely strong character, steadfast in her convictions, possessing the diplomatic skills Vimes lacked, and yes, on the rare occasion it was necessary, willing to fight. She wasn’t Batman. It rather feels like the show runners feel the audience won’t take her seriously if she doesn’t also know Kung fu.
De-ageing Sybil adds yet another wrinkle, even if she wasn’t Ankh Morpork’s caped crusader, having her be a good 20 years younger than Vimes adds a rather creepy aspect to their relationship.
From what I've read it seems they've stripped everything Pratchett from the production save the names.
Would Terry want to be associated with this? Or thanked for his contributions?
I don't know, I never met him in person. But from what I've read about him, I doubt he'd be thrilled about having his name associated with the production considering the turns it's taken.
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Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
So... did like... Sir Terry have any enemies?
Maybe some rival author was poised to launch 'Plateworld' and Terry beat them to the punch with a much better setting and they vowed revenge? And got into television, just waiting for their chance?
From what I've read it seems they've stripped everything Pratchett from the production save the names.
Would Terry want to be associated with this? Or thanked for his contributions?
I don't know, I never met him in person. But from what I've read about him, I doubt he'd be thrilled about having his name associated with the production considering the turns it's taken.
Sure, but that would have been a decision for him to make if he were still around whether he wanted his name on it or not. Not a decision for the person doing the actual adaption.
No one is that oblivious. I think the creator is just pissed at the feedback from the fans and is insulating themselves.
Fan's can be pretty pointed with their feedback and you can see some rough comments on their IG.
I just think if you are using some existing IP you have to remain at least somewhat faithful to the original work and if you can't then just make your own thing.
No one is that oblivious. I think the creator is just pissed at the feedback from the fans and is insulating themselves.
Fan's can be pretty pointed with their feedback and you can see some rough comments on their IG.
I just think if you are using some existing IP you have to remain at least somewhat faithful to the original work and if you can't then just make your own thing.
No one is that oblivious. I think the creator is just pissed at the feedback from the fans and is insulating themselves.
Fan's can be pretty pointed with their feedback and you can see some rough comments on their IG.
I just think if you are using some existing IP you have to remain at least somewhat faithful to the original work and if you can't then just make your own thing.
I just feel so disappointed with the whole thing.
Counterpoint: Starship Troopers.
Counter-counterpoint: Verhoeven‘s movie is very faithful to the book. It’s exactly what the book’s fascist society would look like to non-fascists, and people who don’t have Heinlein’s massive blind spot for militarism and its relation to fascism.
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
No one is that oblivious. I think the creator is just pissed at the feedback from the fans and is insulating themselves.
Fan's can be pretty pointed with their feedback and you can see some rough comments on their IG.
I just think if you are using some existing IP you have to remain at least somewhat faithful to the original work and if you can't then just make your own thing.
I just feel so disappointed with the whole thing.
Counterpoint: Starship Troopers.
Counter-counterpoint: Verhoeven‘s movie is very faithful to the book. It’s exactly what the book’s fascist society would look like to non-fascists, and people who don’t have Heinlein’s massive blind spot for militarism and its relation to fascism.
The biggest change I noticed, other than the lack of mech suits, was the coed nature of the MI. The books had a coed military, but women were limited to ship crews and segregated from the grunts. At least that's what I remember, it's been a while. I couldn't begin to guess if Heinlein would have been OK or not with that change, the sexual politics (I guess) in his books varied wildly.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
No one is that oblivious. I think the creator is just pissed at the feedback from the fans and is insulating themselves.
Fan's can be pretty pointed with their feedback and you can see some rough comments on their IG.
I just think if you are using some existing IP you have to remain at least somewhat faithful to the original work and if you can't then just make your own thing.
I just feel so disappointed with the whole thing.
Counterpoint: Starship Troopers.
Counter-counterpoint: Verhoeven‘s movie is very faithful to the book. It’s exactly what the book’s fascist society would look like to non-fascists, and people who don’t have Heinlein’s massive blind spot for militarism and its relation to fascism.
The biggest change I noticed, other than the lack of mech suits, was the coed nature of the MI. The books had a coed military, but women were limited to ship crews and segregated from the grunts. At least that's what I remember, it's been a while. I couldn't begin to guess if Heinlein would have been OK or not with that change, the sexual politics (I guess) in his books varied wildly.
I thought it was more that women, for reasons, made vastly better space pilots and/or hyperspace navigators than men so every single one went to navy flight school by default. Also I think it was implied that the recruitment ratios were skewed anyway.
There was shipboard segregation between the (expendable) mobile infantry and the ship’s company but I got the impression that was more to keep the MI on task; bored marine memes have been a thing since at least the 19th century after all.
No one is that oblivious. I think the creator is just pissed at the feedback from the fans and is insulating themselves.
Fan's can be pretty pointed with their feedback and you can see some rough comments on their IG.
I just think if you are using some existing IP you have to remain at least somewhat faithful to the original work and if you can't then just make your own thing.
I just feel so disappointed with the whole thing.
Counterpoint: Starship Troopers.
Counter-counterpoint: Verhoeven‘s movie is very faithful to the book. It’s exactly what the book’s fascist society would look like to non-fascists, and people who don’t have Heinlein’s massive blind spot for militarism and its relation to fascism.
The biggest change I noticed, other than the lack of mech suits, was the coed nature of the MI. The books had a coed military, but women were limited to ship crews and segregated from the grunts. At least that's what I remember, it's been a while. I couldn't begin to guess if Heinlein would have been OK or not with that change, the sexual politics (I guess) in his books varied wildly.
I thought it was more that women, for reasons, made vastly better space pilots and/or hyperspace navigators than men so every single one went to navy flight school by default. Also I think it was implied that the recruitment ratios were skewed anyway.
There was shipboard segregation between the (expendable) mobile infantry and the ship’s company but I got the impression that was more to keep the MI on task; bored marine memes have been a thing since at least the 19th century after all.
They also played up the Marine/Navy divide. Which is sort of a thing as well.
The question of how much of the book was intended to be serious or not has always been kind of floating around Starship Troopers and isn't helped by Heinlein views changing over the course of his career.
"We purposely made the adaptation wrong, as a joke."
Either that or they bear the mother of all grudges against Terry Pratchett.
Naah, someone who had a grudge against Pratchett would have done a faithful adaption that's basically a couple of hours insulting the Watch and Discworld's ideals.
This is more "We were too lazy to invent character names, so we stole them from something popular."
"Grudge against" implies "giving a shit about".
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David_TA fashion yes-man is no good to me.Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered Userregular
It has the feel of early Hollywood comic book adaptations, where producers looked at characters they spent a lot of money to acquire the rights to and went "This is a beloved franchise with millions of fans worldwide, how can we Fix It?".
Yeah!
Have y'all read Neil Gaiman's “The Goldfish Pool and Other Stories”?
I thought that was a satire of how TV/film adaptations are made, but now I wonder if it's just a factual account...
I think that sometimes there's an assumption that the fans of the property are a guaranteed audience that they don't need to worry about, so the focus is on who might not like the property as is, and how can we change it so it appeals to them?
The Mort quote I heard was "We think that american viewers will have a real problem with Death as a good guy, so we'll take him out, okay?" (Did they not see Bogus Journey?) Obviously readers wouldn't have that reaction, but readers aren't the target.
Posts
I think earlier it was mentioned that between development hell and pterry's death, it switched production companies so it endef being something completely different and basically cut her out in all butt name.
The original plan from nearly a decade ago was, apparently, that this show would have been the canon continuation of the books.
Given what it's turned into, I'm not shocked that Rhianna might be pretty pissed off by it, especially since it sounds like the show producers used her father's death to justify changing it so heavily.
Is there a draft of script somewhere?
Want more Watch....
Shepherd's Crown has been sitting on my shelf unread for quite a whiie because I Shall Wear Midnight threw way darker than I was ready for
Honestly not sure if I will ever read it
But also, I think most writers throughout history would be mortified if you put every note ever scribbled on a cocktail napkin on the page and published it as one of their works, much less their final work
Sir Terry would probably have some pretty great jokes about Death of the Author to follow that with...
It would be great if there was someone able to write up a more polished expanded version
(IDK why Sir Terry willed all his hard drives to be destroyed... such a loss...)
It's funny you say that because the last collection of his previously unpublished short stories (The Time-Traveling Caveman) is coming out in September. It's a bunch of things he wrote for newspapers while he was still a journalist. I found the other collections.... hit or miss, you can hear his voice in them but you can tell he was still figuring things out. Which is fine and normal and to be expected but I don't know that I need to read every single 'first draft' from someone, even someone I love as much as Terry.
I would guess because they were filled with half-baked ideas that he didn't want anybody to mistake as things he actually wanted published
...or he couldn't remember which ones were just his porn collection
He did leave wishes to have the hard drive with his future book drafts destroyed by steamroller, after all (and it was).
Must have been some amazing ideas there
=0
Like a virtual version of Sir Joshua Lavish' closet?
The scandal!
As for Sir Joshua's collection, clearly everything that was demonstrably clean should have been donated to the local Goodwill equivalent to help those less fortunate than himself
Btw,
who do you think would be a good casting for Moist von Lipwig?
Yeah, Raising Steam felt a bit like a return to the earliest Discworld books, less a traditional narrative and more a world travelogue, but this time to let everyone know how everyone was doing rather than show the breadth of what could be explored in future entries. It was a nice bookend (literally! ha!).
Witches Abroad
Interesting Times
Feet of Clay
I maintain that
Good Omens rules - the scene you describe was so powerful (both in the book and the show) :heartbeat:
Btw, related question:
My partner got his Good Omens signed by Gaiman - does anyone have Pratchett's part so we find out what the complete message says?
The first part of the Going Postal adaptation was very good. The second half had... issues.
Charles Dance's Vetenari was amazing, though.
Oh....
To take a character like that and have him marry someone who ignores the law and goes about killing the people they feel deserve it is a total disservice to that character. Sybil isn’t getting off much better. In the books she was an extremely strong character, steadfast in her convictions, possessing the diplomatic skills Vimes lacked, and yes, on the rare occasion it was necessary, willing to fight. She wasn’t Batman. It rather feels like the show runners feel the audience won’t take her seriously if she doesn’t also know Kung fu.
De-ageing Sybil adds yet another wrinkle, even if she wasn’t Ankh Morpork’s caped crusader, having her be a good 20 years younger than Vimes adds a rather creepy aspect to their relationship.
Would Terry want to be associated with this? Or thanked for his contributions?
I don't know, I never met him in person. But from what I've read about him, I doubt he'd be thrilled about having his name associated with the production considering the turns it's taken.
Maybe some rival author was poised to launch 'Plateworld' and Terry beat them to the punch with a much better setting and they vowed revenge? And got into television, just waiting for their chance?
Sure, but that would have been a decision for him to make if he were still around whether he wanted his name on it or not. Not a decision for the person doing the actual adaption.
Fan's can be pretty pointed with their feedback and you can see some rough comments on their IG.
I just think if you are using some existing IP you have to remain at least somewhat faithful to the original work and if you can't then just make your own thing.
I just feel so disappointed with the whole thing.
Counterpoint: Starship Troopers.
The biggest change I noticed, other than the lack of mech suits, was the coed nature of the MI. The books had a coed military, but women were limited to ship crews and segregated from the grunts. At least that's what I remember, it's been a while. I couldn't begin to guess if Heinlein would have been OK or not with that change, the sexual politics (I guess) in his books varied wildly.
I thought it was more that women, for reasons, made vastly better space pilots and/or hyperspace navigators than men so every single one went to navy flight school by default. Also I think it was implied that the recruitment ratios were skewed anyway.
There was shipboard segregation between the (expendable) mobile infantry and the ship’s company but I got the impression that was more to keep the MI on task; bored marine memes have been a thing since at least the 19th century after all.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
They also played up the Marine/Navy divide. Which is sort of a thing as well.
The question of how much of the book was intended to be serious or not has always been kind of floating around Starship Troopers and isn't helped by Heinlein views changing over the course of his career.
Either that or they bear the mother of all grudges against Terry Pratchett.
Pratchett has written about how the execs behind a possible Mort adaptation wanted to get rid of the whole Death party of the story
Naah, someone who had a grudge against Pratchett would have done a faithful adaption that's basically a couple of hours insulting the Watch and Discworld's ideals.
This is more "We were too lazy to invent character names, so we stole them from something popular."
"Grudge against" implies "giving a shit about".
Have y'all read Neil Gaiman's “The Goldfish Pool and Other Stories”?
I thought that was a satire of how TV/film adaptations are made, but now I wonder if it's just a factual account...
The Mort quote I heard was "We think that american viewers will have a real problem with Death as a good guy, so we'll take him out, okay?" (Did they not see Bogus Journey?) Obviously readers wouldn't have that reaction, but readers aren't the target.