daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
I have been attempting to get my mother's book club to read Small Gods. Unfortunately it is a Jewish book club, which means Small Gods isn't exactly on-topic despite being an excellent examination of (overly) organized religion, and the relationship that people should have with their god(s) and, as important, the relationship their god(s) should have with them. There's also a covenant and hummus, which should at least make it Jew-ish, ala George Santos.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
I feel like Pratchett makes a lot of nods to Judaism as the lore of the Dwarf religion unfolds through the stories.
I wonder how much of that is down to Tolkein basing a lot of elements of Dwarvish culture on them (the language and the diaspora etc) filtering back in to other stuff.
I have been attempting to get my mother's book club to read Small Gods. Unfortunately it is a Jewish book club, which means Small Gods isn't exactly on-topic despite being an excellent examination of (overly) organized religion, and the relationship that people should have with their god(s) and, as important, the relationship their god(s) should have with them. There's also a covenant and hummus, which should at least make it Jew-ish, ala George Santos.
How about Good Omens?
Biblical story, Jewish author, some goy named Pratchett helped presumably by writing on Shabbos?
Night Watch was the first Discworld book I read. Terry was great with making each book in the series stand alone while also world-building and rewarding readers from previous books. He was a genius, basically.
Like P G Wodehouse, he made it look very easy and simple. But as the legions of imitators who have fallen very far short of both authors' style will generally admit: it's not. Nothing is as difficult to pull off as amiable comedy. And amiable comedy that also makes you want to smash the patriarchy and send the oligarchs to the tumbril is very, very difficult indeed.
Robert Rankin is worth a look! One of his books had a pull quote from Terry calling him "one of those rare guys who can always make me laugh," which basically is like winning the Nobel Prize for puns.
Heads up though, he's funny in a much more chaotic way than Terry. Think "Edgar Wright making a film by stitching together Python sketches with bits of the Goon Show" and you'll be pretty close to how his books read.
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
I have been attempting to get my mother's book club to read Small Gods. Unfortunately it is a Jewish book club, which means Small Gods isn't exactly on-topic despite being an excellent examination of (overly) organized religion, and the relationship that people should have with their god(s) and, as important, the relationship their god(s) should have with them. There's also a covenant and hummus, which should at least make it Jew-ish, ala George Santos.
How about Good Omens?
Biblical story, Jewish author, some goy named Pratchett helped presumably by writing on Shabbos?
Possible, but while Good Omens is all good, Brutha's journey from
mindless obedience to the church hierarchy to demanding concessions from Om when Om was in the position of strength is
, IMO, so much better suited for interesting discussion. There's stuff in Good Omens too, but there's nobody who starts off thinking Apocalypse good and then changes their mind. Plus Discworld Death is a much better character than Roundworld Death.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
I'd say do release order, so Rincewind. They're not going to get any better by leaving them longer, but it's more confusing to go back to pre-development Ankh-Morpork and Unseen University.
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
Yeah, I would do Rincewind next. Colour of Magic is skippable if you want but it's not a very long book. Interesting Times is my favorite Rincewind followed by The Last Continent
I was just thinking about the Platypus scene last night
For how short Eric is, a lot of lines I remember years later seem to come from there.
For example, I was just in the Ukraine War thread, and this one came to mind:
The consensus seemed to be that if really large numbers of men were sent to storm the mountain, then enough might survive the rocks to take the citadel. This is essentially the basis of all military thinking.
I think the question to ask is which to leave til last.
Tiffany Aching - as this is where the series ended, and there are some elements of that theme in these, both at the end and as the whole vibe of the old witches passing the broomstick onto the next generation. Most people who got into the series whilst it was being written will have also finished with these books, so your experience of the Shepherd's Crown will share elements with those readers.
Rincewind - before we start, presumably you're counting Sourcery as the first Witch book with Granny Weatherwax rather than a Rincewind and the UU book? That out the way, I think these books could act as a nice Coda to the series - moving on from the very last books to go back and look at the very start, to get the biggest impact over how things changed over the thirty two years of writing. You've also got a bunch of oddballs in here like the entirely illustrated Last Hero novella and the Science of Discworld books that might fit nicely into a "Any other Pratchett?" section at the end if you've not read Nation, the Johnny Maxwell series or Strata and the Carpet People (quick dose of Colour of Magic will also help you with these as well).
Industrial Revolution - I personally think these are some of the best Discworld books, the setting has evolved very much into it's modern style and Pratchett is at the height of his game so I can definitely see finishing on a high note (the Aching books are aimed at a YA audience, so whilst still good there's not quite the same level of references and adult humour that the other series bring - and there's a lot of the earliest books in the Wizzard's books) that also sees the City at the Heart of the Disc move away from it's fantasy roots and into some bright somewhat grubby, but vigorously wiped, future.
So once you know the destination, if the last book is:
Tiffany Aching: I'd go with the release order. Get Colour of Magic and the early ones out of the way, the romp through the best of Discworld before ending up where the rest of us did, at the End.
Rincewind: Go Industrial revolution - it's the closest in style to what you've just read, then go onto the Aching books and the End, before looping back to the Beginning and Beyond.
Industrial Revolution: Go Aching, then loop back to the start and let the books reintroduce Anhk Morpork, before you stride into some of the best books and a new tomorrow. Also has the nice threadline of an agrarian setting, then high fantasy slowly sinking into something more familiar before we start taking that familiar place to new heights.
Equal Rites was my first book and now it just seems totally weird to have the Archchancellor of the Unseen University be someone other than Mustrum Ridcully.
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"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
Equal Rites was my first book and now it just seems totally weird to have the Archchancellor of the Unseen University be someone other than Mustrum Ridcully.
I think that was Ridcully's feeling as well, hence the mandated change in policy regarding the filling of open positions at the University.
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
Note that the Industrial Revolution ends with Raising Steam, which is still fun but very erratic compared to Pratchett's other Ankh-Morpork centered books. Towards the end Sir Terry and his editor were much more concerned with getting books finished rather than polished.
Yeah I just reread Raising Steam a few months ago and it felt very disjointed.
It struck me as being written by someone who also loves trains, could have written a five book trilogy focused on that one story he wanted to tell, and then realized what he had gotten himself into.
I think Raising Steam was created entirely with dictation. You can feel the shift starting in Snuff for me. It's natural to storytell different in speech than text. I think that's one of the big changes in the later books.
Equal Rites was my first book and now it just seems totally weird to have the Archchancellor of the Unseen University be someone other than Mustrum Ridcully.
I think that was Ridcully's feeling as well, hence the mandated change in policy regarding the filling of open positions at the University.
I wouldn't say it was officially mandated, just encouraged by the presence of an Archchancellor who sleeps with loaded crossbows by his bed
Equal Rites was my first book and now it just seems totally weird to have the Archchancellor of the Unseen University be someone other than Mustrum Ridcully.
I think that was Ridcully's feeling as well, hence the mandated change in policy regarding the filling of open positions at the University.
I wouldn't say it was officially mandated, just encouraged by the presence of an Archchancellor who sleeps with loaded crossbows by his bed
Also Ridcully being up at 5 in the morning while other wizards got up at noon, so any assassins got snuck up, shouted in their ear and hit with an oaken staff.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited May 2023
I find it so hard to read the books out of order because of how often he sprinkles in concepts and jokes that get built upon in the next few released novels.
Like, you'd think it helps, but it's actually just kinda confusing. Where did this idea come from? That was a jump. It also deeply helps feed the anticipations and emotional response if you understand themes from previous release order books, regardless of their "series".
In release order it's all completely organic and flows across the years. It's less a collection of books than a deep dive into the author's mind. The only thing I'd suggest is skip whichever starting books you just can't stand until you find one you can.
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(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
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Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
The later the books, the more material they're built on naturally, and the more it assumes you're aware of it all. One of the foot notes even gives a brief summary of past events and ends on the line "but you know all this." Pretty presumptuous, Sir Pratchett!
...though he was right.
I love a footnote in Maskerade that refers to
Greebo's ability to turn into a human.
This was a major element of the climax of Witches Abroad and something that clinched victory for the witches, and in Maskerade it simply mentions that the witches had done it for 'reasons that had seemed entirely sensible at the time.'
The later the books, the more material they're built on naturally, and the more it assumes you're aware of it all. One of the foot notes even gives a brief summary of past events and ends on the line "but you know all this." Pretty presumptuous, Sir Pratchett!
...though he was right.
I love a footnote in Maskerade that refers to
Greebo's ability to turn into a human.
This was a major element of the climax of Witches Abroad and something that clinched victory for the witches, and in Maskerade it simply mentions that the witches had done it for 'reasons that had seemed entirely sensible at the time.'
That summarizes pretty much all of human behavior at all times.
The later the books, the more material they're built on naturally, and the more it assumes you're aware of it all. One of the foot notes even gives a brief summary of past events and ends on the line "but you know all this." Pretty presumptuous, Sir Pratchett!
...though he was right.
I love a footnote in Maskerade that refers to
Greebo's ability to turn into a human.
This was a major element of the climax of Witches Abroad and something that clinched victory for the witches, and in Maskerade it simply mentions that the witches had done it for 'reasons that had seemed entirely sensible at the time.'
That summarizes pretty much all of human behavior at all times.
*Terms and conditions may apply. Not valid in the state of Florida.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
The later the books, the more material they're built on naturally, and the more it assumes you're aware of it all. One of the foot notes even gives a brief summary of past events and ends on the line "but you know all this." Pretty presumptuous, Sir Pratchett!
...though he was right.
I love a footnote in Maskerade that refers to
Greebo's ability to turn into a human.
This was a major element of the climax of Witches Abroad and something that clinched victory for the witches, and in Maskerade it simply mentions that the witches had done it for 'reasons that had seemed entirely sensible at the time.'
That summarizes pretty much all of human behavior at all times.
Bet you half a dollar?
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
This was a major element of the climax of Witches Abroad and something that clinched victory for the witches, and in Maskerade it simply mentions that the witches had done it for 'reasons that had seemed entirely sensible at the time.'
Well, one of the big through-lines of Discworld is that using magic to solve problems isn't something that just cleans itself up nicely when the problem is over. Magic changes the world forever.
My partner gave me these for my birthday and they just look so fantastic. They're releasing more of 'em and I'm all for it. They're gonna stay in my collection for forever, as far as I'm concerned. I'm thinking about swapping out some of my older paperbacks for these, I'm sure the paperbacks will find new readers when I leave them in Little Free Libraries.
Been reading The Colour of Magic and hey, it's pretty good! I don't know why I've always heard bad things about it.
It's pretty good if you're familiar with table-top RPG tropes and golden/silver-age fantasy settngs like Lankhmar, Conan, Dying Earth, Elric etc. If you are, then yes, it has pretty good fun satirising those! If not, then it's basically random, unstructured episodes that don't seem to bear any relationship to each other other than that Rincewind and Twoflower pass through them leaving confusion and vigorous burning and fighting in their wake.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
I liked that with little knowledge of those things because it was all very inventive and quite funny and there was a real energy to it all.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I've still heard of none of those (okay, I'd heard of Conan, but not actually seen anything of it), it still hooked me as the first DW book I ever read.
Not the first Pratchett book, though.
I started with the Bromeliad books (and have to acknowledge that I finally saw the pun in that name like, a week ago, presumably permanently unseating all challengers in the It Took Me This Long To Get The Goddamn Pun contest), then the two Johnny Maxwell ones that were out at the time.
Then my sister gave me her copy of CoM to keep me quiet after I ran out of satisfactory Star Wars books while on holiday (Thank Kevin J Anderson for writing some highly unsatisfactory books, or I may never have strayed). Two weeks later I'd finished Soul Music, and had to wait for the next book to get published.
CoM is very different from what follows, but I see it as similar to going back to the first strips in a comic; the writer/artist isn't totally at home with what they're making yet and things are going to change, but the bones of what's to come are still there. It's a parody of fantasy settings, later books go on to use this fantasy setting to parody/reference/satirise just about everything.
Been reading The Colour of Magic and hey, it's pretty good! I don't know why I've always heard bad things about it.
It's pretty good if you're familiar with table-top RPG tropes and golden/silver-age fantasy settngs like Lankhmar, Conan, Dying Earth, Elric etc. If you are, then yes, it has pretty good fun satirising those! If not, then it's basically random, unstructured episodes that don't seem to bear any relationship to each other other than that Rincewind and Twoflower pass through them leaving confusion and vigorous burning and fighting in their wake.
Which is hilarious!
"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
I've still heard of none of those (okay, I'd heard of Conan, but not actually seen anything of it), it still hooked me as the first DW book I ever read.
Allow me to extremely recommend Jack Vance to you, then! There is a Dying Earthomnibus paperback which is extremely good value, and contains all 3 'novels' (these are actually sets of linked short story-length episodes which were originally published as serials, I believe) and all the individual short stories. His Lyonesse series carries much of the same flavour of picaresque scenery, delicious food, incredibly good dialogue and unscrupulous characters.
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I wonder how much of that is down to Tolkein basing a lot of elements of Dwarvish culture on them (the language and the diaspora etc) filtering back in to other stuff.
How about Good Omens?
Biblical story, Jewish author, some goy named Pratchett helped presumably by writing on Shabbos?
Robert Rankin is worth a look! One of his books had a pull quote from Terry calling him "one of those rare guys who can always make me laugh," which basically is like winning the Nobel Prize for puns.
Heads up though, he's funny in a much more chaotic way than Terry. Think "Edgar Wright making a film by stitching together Python sketches with bits of the Goon Show" and you'll be pretty close to how his books read.
Possible, but while Good Omens is all good, Brutha's journey from
This should be interesting.
The only series left to read are The Rincewind series, Industrial Revolution, and Tiffany Aching.
Which one should I do next? I'm not sure I can get myself interested in the Colour of Magic though.
I was just thinking about the Platypus scene last night
For example, I was just in the Ukraine War thread, and this one came to mind:
I'd consider that a Rincewind book, as the main characters turn up in Interesting Times
Tiffany Aching - as this is where the series ended, and there are some elements of that theme in these, both at the end and as the whole vibe of the old witches passing the broomstick onto the next generation. Most people who got into the series whilst it was being written will have also finished with these books, so your experience of the Shepherd's Crown will share elements with those readers.
Rincewind - before we start, presumably you're counting Sourcery as the first Witch book with Granny Weatherwax rather than a Rincewind and the UU book? That out the way, I think these books could act as a nice Coda to the series - moving on from the very last books to go back and look at the very start, to get the biggest impact over how things changed over the thirty two years of writing. You've also got a bunch of oddballs in here like the entirely illustrated Last Hero novella and the Science of Discworld books that might fit nicely into a "Any other Pratchett?" section at the end if you've not read Nation, the Johnny Maxwell series or Strata and the Carpet People (quick dose of Colour of Magic will also help you with these as well).
Industrial Revolution - I personally think these are some of the best Discworld books, the setting has evolved very much into it's modern style and Pratchett is at the height of his game so I can definitely see finishing on a high note (the Aching books are aimed at a YA audience, so whilst still good there's not quite the same level of references and adult humour that the other series bring - and there's a lot of the earliest books in the Wizzard's books) that also sees the City at the Heart of the Disc move away from it's fantasy roots and into some bright somewhat grubby, but vigorously wiped, future.
So once you know the destination, if the last book is:
Tiffany Aching: I'd go with the release order. Get Colour of Magic and the early ones out of the way, the romp through the best of Discworld before ending up where the rest of us did, at the End.
Rincewind: Go Industrial revolution - it's the closest in style to what you've just read, then go onto the Aching books and the End, before looping back to the Beginning and Beyond.
Industrial Revolution: Go Aching, then loop back to the start and let the books reintroduce Anhk Morpork, before you stride into some of the best books and a new tomorrow. Also has the nice threadline of an agrarian setting, then high fantasy slowly sinking into something more familiar before we start taking that familiar place to new heights.
I think that was Ridcully's feeling as well, hence the mandated change in policy regarding the filling of open positions at the University.
I can't say I blame them!
It struck me as being written by someone who also loves trains, could have written a five book trilogy focused on that one story he wanted to tell, and then realized what he had gotten himself into.
I wouldn't say it was officially mandated, just encouraged by the presence of an Archchancellor who sleeps with loaded crossbows by his bed
Also Ridcully being up at 5 in the morning while other wizards got up at noon, so any assassins got snuck up, shouted in their ear and hit with an oaken staff.
Like, you'd think it helps, but it's actually just kinda confusing. Where did this idea come from? That was a jump. It also deeply helps feed the anticipations and emotional response if you understand themes from previous release order books, regardless of their "series".
In release order it's all completely organic and flows across the years. It's less a collection of books than a deep dive into the author's mind. The only thing I'd suggest is skip whichever starting books you just can't stand until you find one you can.
I love a footnote in Maskerade that refers to
That summarizes pretty much all of human behavior at all times.
*Terms and conditions may apply. Not valid in the state of Florida.
Bet you half a dollar?
Well, one of the big through-lines of Discworld is that using magic to solve problems isn't something that just cleans itself up nicely when the problem is over. Magic changes the world forever.
I start crying every single time.
It's pretty good if you're familiar with table-top RPG tropes and golden/silver-age fantasy settngs like Lankhmar, Conan, Dying Earth, Elric etc. If you are, then yes, it has pretty good fun satirising those! If not, then it's basically random, unstructured episodes that don't seem to bear any relationship to each other other than that Rincewind and Twoflower pass through them leaving confusion and vigorous burning and fighting in their wake.
Not the first Pratchett book, though.
I started with the Bromeliad books (and have to acknowledge that I finally saw the pun in that name like, a week ago, presumably permanently unseating all challengers in the It Took Me This Long To Get The Goddamn Pun contest), then the two Johnny Maxwell ones that were out at the time.
Then my sister gave me her copy of CoM to keep me quiet after I ran out of satisfactory Star Wars books while on holiday (Thank Kevin J Anderson for writing some highly unsatisfactory books, or I may never have strayed). Two weeks later I'd finished Soul Music, and had to wait for the next book to get published.
CoM is very different from what follows, but I see it as similar to going back to the first strips in a comic; the writer/artist isn't totally at home with what they're making yet and things are going to change, but the bones of what's to come are still there. It's a parody of fantasy settings, later books go on to use this fantasy setting to parody/reference/satirise just about everything.
Which is hilarious!
Allow me to extremely recommend Jack Vance to you, then! There is a Dying Earth omnibus paperback which is extremely good value, and contains all 3 'novels' (these are actually sets of linked short story-length episodes which were originally published as serials, I believe) and all the individual short stories. His Lyonesse series carries much of the same flavour of picaresque scenery, delicious food, incredibly good dialogue and unscrupulous characters.