Ha, it must be so tiresome and vexing to be bullied for thinking minorities are a pack of savages! Maybe Eva should come out and say she was just "speaking her truth".
I guess it depends on what our goals are when it comes to prison.
If reckless driving resulted in longer sentences, do you believe people would drive less recklessly? Because I don't, because no one thinks they're going to go to prison when they blow through a stop sign, so it really doesn't matter how long the sentences are.
So, next is, do you believe he's a dangerous offender who shouldn't be released? I don't, this was obviously a mistake, one he's owned up to and taken responsibility for.
So the last is, do you want to wield our justice system as an implementation of vengeance? Then yeah, I guess longer sentences would make sense.
I'd rather not abandon our humanity, though.
I don't know if he's a dangerous offender, I'm not a lawyer or a judge.
"no one thinks they're going to prison when they do X" is true for a lot of things we have laws and sentences for. Why have prison at all when I'm sorry works?
I'm ok with the judges sentence on this one and the next time someone is inattentive driving and kills someone or multiple someone's I'd like to not see them back on the road 18 months later.
He doesn't have to be in jail to be off the road. You could give him a driving ban. This is purely vengeance. We should be better than that.
You don't get a driving ban for killing 16 people because you weren't paying attention after showing a pattern of neglect in your job.
I wasn't following this in great detail. What pattern of neglect did Sidhu show?
After his first week of driving solo he had 70 mistakes in his logbook.
I wouldn't call that a pattern of neglect. I would call it a training failure.
And while a bad logbook can be an attempt by a bad faith driver to do additional miles, reading examples in the article, it wasn't that.
But for the most part I myself am satisfied with his sentence. We should hold professional drivers to a higher standard, because they are on the road so much more with that many extra opportunities to make mistakes we need them to be extra vigilant.
I don't think I've ever identified myself as an Ontarian like, at all
The concept is just....foreign to me
It's just generally being Canadian, and then being from Ottawa, though I guess in itself as the capital maybe it makes you feel more attached to the federal level than the provincial?
I don't think I've ever identified myself as an Ontarian like, at all
The concept is just....foreign to me
It's just generally being Canadian, and then being from Ottawa, though I guess in itself as the capital maybe it makes you feel more attached to the federal level than the provincial?
Among other assumed Canadians I will probably identify as province or City first, but when international, it's always Canadian and maybe expand if I think they might have an idea of what Canada looks like internally.
I'm definitely Canadian first and I HATE the trend towards more and more "local" government power.
I don't want a bunch of little city states forming because every single person wants their own specific laws and shit.
To be clear I think this is why people are moving to be "Province First!". They want to piss in their own little pool and don't want anyone else's input and definitely don't want to be told what to do for the greater good (of Canada).
This can be pretty easily summed up with those asinine shirts that say "Republic of Vancouver Island".
Go fuck yourselves, we'd starve in a week without the rest of BC.
Yeah, I just sort of live in Ontario because I was born here and found work here. I mean, I have dat sweet sweet healthcare whichever province I live in.
To be clear I think this is why people are moving to be "Province First!". They want to piss in their own little pool and don't want anyone else's input and definitely don't want to be told what to do for the greater good (of Canada).
Yeah, it's always felt to me like a lot of region-first identification in Canada - especially the angry, vaguely secessionist kind that's been increasing in the last several years - hasn't been about "yay my neck of the woods" as much as "I hate the rest of the country."
Merely finding out I voluntarily live in the Maritimes has led to some downright astonishing venom hurled in my direction from Alberta- or Ontario-first types.
To be clear I think this is why people are moving to be "Province First!". They want to piss in their own little pool and don't want anyone else's input and definitely don't want to be told what to do for the greater good (of Canada).
Yeah, it's always felt to me like a lot of region-first identification in Canada - especially the angry, vaguely secessionist kind that's been increasing in the last several years - hasn't been about "yay my neck of the woods" as much as "I hate the rest of the country."
Merely finding out I voluntarily live in the Maritimes has led to some downright astonishing venom hurled in my direction from Alberta- or Ontario-first types.
Do people actually sincerely insult people cause they're from the Maritimes?? The only crime my New Brunswicker of a boss has committed is being a Boston Bruins fan. I can't think of an actual real reason to hate on the Maritimes people might have...
To be clear I think this is why people are moving to be "Province First!". They want to piss in their own little pool and don't want anyone else's input and definitely don't want to be told what to do for the greater good (of Canada).
Yeah, it's always felt to me like a lot of region-first identification in Canada - especially the angry, vaguely secessionist kind that's been increasing in the last several years - hasn't been about "yay my neck of the woods" as much as "I hate the rest of the country."
Merely finding out I voluntarily live in the Maritimes has led to some downright astonishing venom hurled in my direction from Alberta- or Ontario-first types.
Do people actually sincerely insult people cause they're from the Maritimes?? The only crime my New Brunswicker of a boss has committed is being a Boston Bruins fan. I can't think of an actual real reason to hate on the Maritimes people might have...
Yeah, I've never heard anything but positive stereotypes about Maritimers. I used to hear Newfie jokes back in, like, the 90s but recently I've only seen them known as "that enormous mass of nice people who had to leave Newfoundland cause there's no jobs there".
I heard newfie jokes in the 90s, but they always seemed to be told alongside other regional stereotypes and none of them were all that complimentary, especially about the region of the joketeller.
Huh, I definitely identify first as British Columbian but that doesn't mean I put Canadian second though.
Allow me to explain, not as far as the "Republic of Vancouver Island" stupidity Aridhol mentions earlier but more as a familiarity of geographic experience. I didn't even know it was a thing, growing up poor I only get to move around so much, so it was basicly only the enviroments of Vancouver Island and a bit of the Fraser Valley up to about the Okanagan that I had any real life experience with. So when I finally had a chance to do a cross Canada trip to see a friend, it was surreal once I hit the prairies. It felt like suddenly Tragicly Hip songs made so much more sense. It felt like someone had taken me out into the Pacific on a boat past where we can see land anymore and frozen the ocean in place, the sky was so BIG. And the thunderstorms, holy crap, it was like earthquakes from the sky! And people call hills mountains, trees are tiny and farther apart in the forest trails, more statues pop up, the mosquitos and flies shrink in size but change from pests into plagues that damn near black out street lamps, and people's porches flip around from the back to the front...
I really got to miss the mountains in BC that hold up the sky, I cried when I saw the Rockies again on my way back.
I can't help but wonder, if I wasn't so damn poor, how much more might I identify as Canadian than British Columbian simply because I would be able to afford to travel? I've never been in a plane before, how might my perspective on our world change if I had that opportunity?
When I was living in Calgary, back during the early 00s, I would say I heard the occasional assholish comment directed towards Newfoundlanders. No jokes, like we heard back in the 90s, which I heard a lot of when I live in Ottawa, but mostly some questionable comments and general ignorance.
Mostly depended on the circle you were running in though. I was working a labor job at the time, and had no issues and mostly just heard complimentary things (hard workers, best kind, etc.). My girlfriend at the time worked in an office at an oil company, and that was more of what I described above.
I can understand both Quebec and Newfoundland keeping their provincial identity front and centre. Quebec, because it’s been holding on to its culture and language for dear life for over three centuries. And Newfoundland, the last entry into the Dominion, has only been part of Canada for 70 years, and is an island.
Ontario though? Ontarians don’t seem to put the province above the Country because we arrogantly think we ARE Canada, or at least we are ‘default’ Canada.
Huh, I definitely identify first as British Columbian but that doesn't mean I put Canadian second though.
Allow me to explain, not as far as the "Republic of Vancouver Island" stupidity Aridhol mentions earlier but more as a familiarity of geographic experience. I didn't even know it was a thing, growing up poor I only get to move around so much, so it was basicly only the enviroments of Vancouver Island and a bit of the Fraser Valley up to about the Okanagan that I had any real life experience with. So when I finally had a chance to do a cross Canada trip to see a friend, it was surreal once I hit the prairies. It felt like suddenly Tragicly Hip songs made so much more sense. It felt like someone had taken me out into the Pacific on a boat past where we can see land anymore and frozen the ocean in place, the sky was so BIG. And the thunderstorms, holy crap, it was like earthquakes from the sky! And people call hills mountains, trees are tiny and farther apart in the forest trails, more statues pop up, the mosquitos and flies shrink in size but change from pests into plagues that damn near black out street lamps, and people's porches flip around from the back to the front...
I really got to miss the mountains in BC that hold up the sky, I cried when I saw the Rockies again on my way back.
I can't help but wonder, if I wasn't so damn poor, how much more might I identify as Canadian than British Columbian simply because I would be able to afford to travel? I've never been in a plane before, how might my perspective on our world change if I had that opportunity?
You've not been in an airplane before!?
Like even a cesna?
going over the island at a few thousand feet for the first time made me feel like an astronaut or some kind of crazy explorer. It's a punch to the face and gut about just how huge this place is. It makes your brain go *boink* and shut down.
I travel throughout Canada (typically AB, SK, ON, QC) for my work and the most striking thing about the Prairies is how uniformly flat it is. I drove from Regina to North Dakota last year and yeah, it felt flat while I was driving, but it looked like a carpet laid down completely flat while I was in the air.
Unfortunately my direct manager has monopolized the one trip to BC we have this year. After my Winnipeg trip in a couple weeks, I'll still have to visit that and the territories. Hopefully there's good food in Winnipeg?
I travel throughout Canada (typically AB, SK, ON, QC) for my work and the most striking thing about the Prairies is how uniformly flat it is. I drove from Regina to North Dakota last year and yeah, it felt flat while I was driving, but it looked like a carpet laid down completely flat while I was in the air.
Unfortunately my direct manager has monopolized the one trip to BC we have this year. After my Winnipeg trip in a couple weeks, I'll still have to visit that and the territories. Hopefully there's good food in Winnipeg?
Depends on your tastes and if you are asking about fine dining vs casual, but my 'Pegger of a wife has introduced me to the Fatboy. Which is what everyone else in the world calls a chili-burger. But Winnipegers just think of them as hamburgers. Not refined eats in the slightest, but very tasty! Don't ask for a chili-burger through. I made that mistake once. The burger came to table with a heaping ladleful of chili poured OVER the entire sandwich. I was like "WTF?" and my wife and her uncle and aunt just pointed at me and laughed. Vijays is good, but also has the best fries to go with.
I can understand both Quebec and Newfoundland keeping their provincial identity front and centre. Quebec, because it’s been holding on to its culture and language for dear life for over three centuries. And Newfoundland, the last entry into the Dominion, has only been part of Canada for 70 years, and is an island.
Ontario though? Ontarians don’t seem to put the province above the Country because we arrogantly think we ARE Canada, or at least we are ‘default’ Canada.
I mean, I don't really approach it from a point of arrogance. Moreso that I never felt there was anything special or noteworthy about us as a province compared to say, certain markers you have for people from certain American states. So identifying as an Ontarian holds as much weight as identifying as someone from my specific suburb. It's just a place to me. I find the general national identity more relatable; we're boring, provincially.
I don't think I've ever heard any truly meanspirited Newfie/Maritimer jokes, so maybe they fell out of vogue by the time I got sentient enough to remember any. I've pretty well only heard the term in context to talk about how ridiculously nice everyone on the coast is?? And to describe certain parts of the Newfie/Maritime Experience.
I travel throughout Canada (typically AB, SK, ON, QC) for my work and the most striking thing about the Prairies is how uniformly flat it is. I drove from Regina to North Dakota last year and yeah, it felt flat while I was driving, but it looked like a carpet laid down completely flat while I was in the air.
Unfortunately my direct manager has monopolized the one trip to BC we have this year. After my Winnipeg trip in a couple weeks, I'll still have to visit that and the territories. Hopefully there's good food in Winnipeg?
Depends on your tastes and if you are asking about fine dining vs casual, but my 'Pegger of a wife has introduced me to the Fatboy. Which is what everyone else in the world calls a chili-burger. But Winnipegers just think of them as hamburgers. Not refined eats in the slightest, but very tasty! Don't ask for a chili-burger through. I made that mistake once. The burger came to table with a heaping ladleful of chili poured OVER the entire sandwich. I was like "WTF?" and my wife and her uncle and aunt just pointed at me and laughed. Vijays is good, but also has the best fries to go with.
Having moved back to Winnipeg after many years in Edmonton, I will say that the food is really good.
Ethnic food and fine dining has limited selection and is hard to find, but Canadiana cuisine is abundant and delicious. We have monthly City wide contests for different dishes that restaurants participate in. Fried Chicken, Poutine, Burgers, etc.
I travel throughout Canada (typically AB, SK, ON, QC) for my work and the most striking thing about the Prairies is how uniformly flat it is. I drove from Regina to North Dakota last year and yeah, it felt flat while I was driving, but it looked like a carpet laid down completely flat while I was in the air.
Unfortunately my direct manager has monopolized the one trip to BC we have this year. After my Winnipeg trip in a couple weeks, I'll still have to visit that and the territories. Hopefully there's good food in Winnipeg?
Depends on your tastes and if you are asking about fine dining vs casual, but my 'Pegger of a wife has introduced me to the Fatboy. Which is what everyone else in the world calls a chili-burger. But Winnipegers just think of them as hamburgers. Not refined eats in the slightest, but very tasty! Don't ask for a chili-burger through. I made that mistake once. The burger came to table with a heaping ladleful of chili poured OVER the entire sandwich. I was like "WTF?" and my wife and her uncle and aunt just pointed at me and laughed. Vijays is good, but also has the best fries to go with.
Having moved back to Winnipeg after many years in Edmonton, I will say that the food is really good.
Ethnic food and fine dining has limited selection and is hard to find, but Canadiana cuisine is abundant and delicious. We have monthly City wide contests for different dishes that restaurants participate in. Fried Chicken, Poutine, Burgers, etc.
I can't speak to the greater cuisine options in Winnipeg. We only come in once every year for the Folk Festival, to see her family/show off our kids, and eat the food that she misses now that she's been in the GTA for almost 20 years. Which is definitely not the amazing ethnic choices we have here or fine dining choices. But rather the comfort foods of her childhood: City Rye bread, fatboys, and Bridge Drive-In milkshakes.
I can understand both Quebec and Newfoundland keeping their provincial identity front and centre. Quebec, because it’s been holding on to its culture and language for dear life for over three centuries. And Newfoundland, the last entry into the Dominion, has only been part of Canada for 70 years, and is an island.
Ontario though? Ontarians don’t seem to put the province above the Country because we arrogantly think we ARE Canada, or at least we are ‘default’ Canada.
I've never found Ontarians to ever put forth much of a provincial identity. I guess not beyond aggressive driving compared to everywhere but Quebec.
And to be fair to your point, 2 out of 5 Canadians are Ontarians so if that's not the default I don't know what is. :P
I'm definitely Canadian first. I wouldn't really call myself an Ontarian ever. I'd sooner identify by hometown than province. Northwestern Ontario is a different world than Southern Ontario. There's not anything to bring together a cohesive provincial identity that you wouldn't find anywhere else in Canada.
I'm definitely Canadian first. I wouldn't really call myself an Ontarian ever. I'd sooner identify by hometown than province. Northwestern Ontario is a different world than Southern Ontario. There's not anything to bring together a cohesive provincial identity that you wouldn't find anywhere else in Canada.
I would identify as "from x place" within Canada mostly because I assume the other Canadians I'm talking to on a daily basis would know I'm Canadian and thus it doesn't need saying.
But yeah, being from Ontario is way to vague to be meaningful on almost any issue. You've got like Northern Ontario which is different from Southwestern Ontario which is different from the Toronto suburbs which is different from the city itself and so on and so forth. And even then I've never found anyone to really assert that as an identity in any strong or arrogant way.
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
I'm definitely Canadian first. I wouldn't really call myself an Ontarian ever. I'd sooner identify by hometown than province. Northwestern Ontario is a different world than Southern Ontario. There's not anything to bring together a cohesive provincial identity that you wouldn't find anywhere else in Canada.
Yeah I don't really have any idea what the Ontarian identity is, as somebody who's been living here for the past 35 years.
I could give you some thoughts on Toronto (and Brampton), but I couldn't speak for someone in say, Sarnia or Thunder Bay.
The UN thing is the right getting convinced by the far right that the Global Compact for Migration is some sort of probably-Jewish conspiracy to destroy the white race via unrestricted mass immigration by foreigners who are swarthy or worse because, uh, reasons, or something.
(I'm not actually exaggerating.)
Canadian yellowjackets are xenophobes first and whatever-else-they-claim-to-be second so they're pretty big on that theory.
That's on top of the Canadian right traditionally hating the UN because the GOP told them to, of course.
The UN has been a right-wing boogeyman for decades and decades.
I just realized that it may also have to do with a movement within Canada to try to follow the UN recent ruling on First Nations treatment.
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
I'm definitely Canadian first. I wouldn't really call myself an Ontarian ever. I'd sooner identify by hometown than province. Northwestern Ontario is a different world than Southern Ontario. There's not anything to bring together a cohesive provincial identity that you wouldn't find anywhere else in Canada.
Heh, the coworker I share an office with is from Ontario, and was genuinely surprised when I told him I had friends also from there who spoke fluent French. The whole North/South divide of Ontario and New Brunswick and their relative proximity to Quebec really make for some ... interesting cultural dichotomies.
I suspect it's because Ontarios' SO populated, we've got subregional cultural differences that mean more than our identity as 'Ontario'. For instance, in SW Ontario where I grew up and live, Letterkenny is basically a documentary. I don't know how else to reconcile between the experiences of me (country-raised, small town-livin') vs someone who grew up and stayed in Toronto or Ottawa.
The reality is that clearly Ontario just has MORE cultures, and more is better, right?
I suspect it's because Ontarios' SO populated, we've got subregional cultural differences that mean more than our identity as 'Ontario'. For instance, in SW Ontario where I grew up and live, Letterkenny is basically a documentary. I don't know how else to reconcile between the experiences of me (country-raised, small town-livin') vs someone who grew up and stayed in Toronto or Ottawa.
The reality is that clearly Ontario just has MORE cultures, and more is better, right?
I often identify as Nova Scotian/Maritimer ahead of Canadian, but never out of ill will toward any other part of the country. More out of an affection for our local quirks.
I can definitely see people being wary of some instances of province/region over Canadian though. It's certainly not always as benign.
I will say, if I'm talking to someone from outside of Canada, it's pretty much always Canada to start for me.
Edit: Another interesting case would be some of my relatives in the French parts of New Brunswick. Most of them are very proudly Canadian. They almost all identify strongly (in some cases the strongest) with being Acadian, while few if any feel any particular way about being from New Brunswick. Though I feel in part it's that for many Acadians, Acadia as a region sort of subs in for the 'local region' in place of province.
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DaimarA Million Feet Tall of AwesomeRegistered Userregular
For those who were wondering about what repercussions the trucking company would face for the Bronco's bus crash, fines of $5,000 in total.
Descendant XSkyrim is my god now.Outpost 31Registered Userregular
Now THAT is something to be mad about. The fines are capped at $1k, which is ridiculous.
Garry: I know you gentlemen have been through a lot, but when you find the time I'd rather not spend the rest of the winter TIED TO THIS FUCKING COUCH!
The main thing I grew to find out as I got older and travelled and lived around the country more and met people from elsewhere in the country is that a lot of people hate Toronto for no discernible reason and people from Toronto neither understand it nor, frankly, even know it's a thing most of the time. I always remember comedians telling jokes about it while I was growing up but it never made any sense to me till I met people when I was grown up who actually thought that way. It's all very strange.
Out west is where people were the most adamant about the whole thing. Quebec seemed to just disdain Toronto as being too uptight. The people I knew from rural Ontario, if they had any opinions all, mostly seemed to think the city was dangerous and scary and full of crime or something. That was my experience anyway.
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BouwsTWanna come to a super soft birthday party?Registered Userregular
Now THAT is something to be mad about. The fines are capped at $1k, which is ridiculous.
They're log book violations. There actually wasn't much regulations on the books that directly affected the accident in question.
Sure, but he was allowing his employees to operate unsafely, very likely contributing to the incident. How fucked up is it that the new employee gets 8 years of prison time and (very likely) deportation, but the owner of the company who is responsible for the training and monitoring this process gets a $1,000 fine per instance.
If the driver is getting turbo fucked because the crime was failing to stop at a stop sign but the CONSEQUENCE was life altering/ending, should we not be holding the managing parties to a similar standard?! I don't believe that the owner should get the same punishment, but this disparity is a bit much for my taste.
Between you and me, Peggy, I smoked this Juul and it did UNTHINKABLE things to my mind and body...
The main thing I grew to find out as I got older and travelled and lived around the country more and met people from elsewhere in the country is that a lot of people hate Toronto for no discernible reason and people from Toronto neither understand it nor, frankly, even know it's a thing most of the time. I always remember comedians telling jokes about it while I was growing up but it never made any sense to me till I met people when I was grown up who actually thought that way. It's all very strange.
Out west is where people were the most adamant about the whole thing. Quebec seemed to just disdain Toronto as being too uptight. The people I knew from rural Ontario, if they had any opinions all, mostly seemed to think the city was dangerous and scary and full of crime or something. That was my experience anyway.
For the longest time all the local newspapers out west would have a huge amount of news about things happening in Toronto, likely because the head offices of many of the papers got shifted to Toronto as part of the media consolidation. The TV nightly news often also had an outsized amount of reporting on the happenings of Toronto. Both tended to happen at the expense of reporting on local events more relevant to the typical viewer or reader. It also tended to happen as local papers were bought up and had their local content dry up to be replaced by more Toronto-centric reporting. Hence, the jokes about how Toronto thought itself to be the centre of the universe and that if it didn't happen in Toronto, that it wasn't worth knowing about.
The main thing I grew to find out as I got older and travelled and lived around the country more and met people from elsewhere in the country is that a lot of people hate Toronto for no discernible reason and people from Toronto neither understand it nor, frankly, even know it's a thing most of the time. I always remember comedians telling jokes about it while I was growing up but it never made any sense to me till I met people when I was grown up who actually thought that way. It's all very strange.
Out west is where people were the most adamant about the whole thing. Quebec seemed to just disdain Toronto as being too uptight. The people I knew from rural Ontario, if they had any opinions all, mostly seemed to think the city was dangerous and scary and full of crime or something. That was my experience anyway.
For the longest time all the local newspapers out west would have a huge amount of news about things happening in Toronto, likely because the head offices of many of the papers got shifted to Toronto as part of the media consolidation. The TV nightly news often also had an outsized amount of reporting on the happenings of Toronto. Both tended to happen at the expense of reporting on local events more relevant to the typical viewer or reader. It also tended to happen as local papers were bought up and had their local content dry up to be replaced by more Toronto-centric reporting. Hence, the jokes about how Toronto thought itself to be the centre of the universe and that if it didn't happen in Toronto, that it wasn't worth knowing about.
Meanwhile, Québec media, being francophone, were never consolidated in Toronto, and thus we were exempt of this phenomenon and we hate Toronto for completely distinct reasons from the ROC.
The main thing I grew to find out as I got older and travelled and lived around the country more and met people from elsewhere in the country is that a lot of people hate Toronto for no discernible reason and people from Toronto neither understand it nor, frankly, even know it's a thing most of the time. I always remember comedians telling jokes about it while I was growing up but it never made any sense to me till I met people when I was grown up who actually thought that way. It's all very strange.
Out west is where people were the most adamant about the whole thing. Quebec seemed to just disdain Toronto as being too uptight. The people I knew from rural Ontario, if they had any opinions all, mostly seemed to think the city was dangerous and scary and full of crime or something. That was my experience anyway.
I agree 100%. I caught a lot of looks a few years ago while waiting in line at a Tim's in Transcona (a neighborhood in Winnipeg): Brown dude. Folk Fest volunteer shirt. Argos hat. I don't know what they were specifically upset about that day, but I was giving them options!
But the husband of a friends brother-in-law I met a few times at various cottage weekends originally hails from Vancouver and summed up the Toronto hate like this...
First, nobody knows anything about Toronto and the vast majority of people who hate it have the feeling just because they're told they should. Second, anyone who comes to Toronto for the dreaded meeting never actually get to see the real city. They stay at a fancy hotel. They see the inside of an office building or the convention centre. Maybe they go for dinner at one of the overly expensive business district restaurants that cater almost exclusively to corporate diners and after work drinkers, and then they fly home.
So the only impression they get is the "work all the time, stick up the butt, boring" stereotype because everyone they meet is in work-mode. Very few other Canadians stay long enough to explore the city, take in the multiculturalism, see the grittiness of some areas or the funkiness or the electicness of what life is actually like if you live in the city.
And that is a shame. Because even though I was raised in the suburbs of T.O, and now that I am a grown ass adult with kids now back living in the suburbs, I moved down to the heart of city from the ages of 19 to 34. At first for school from living in a dorm (Ryerson), to renting my first apartment in the ghetto (St. James Town) to a nice top floor one bedroom apartment in midtown (Yonge & Eg). I love Toronto an I will always fucking love it.
The main thing I grew to find out as I got older and travelled and lived around the country more and met people from elsewhere in the country is that a lot of people hate Toronto for no discernible reason and people from Toronto neither understand it nor, frankly, even know it's a thing most of the time. I always remember comedians telling jokes about it while I was growing up but it never made any sense to me till I met people when I was grown up who actually thought that way. It's all very strange.
Out west is where people were the most adamant about the whole thing. Quebec seemed to just disdain Toronto as being too uptight. The people I knew from rural Ontario, if they had any opinions all, mostly seemed to think the city was dangerous and scary and full of crime or something. That was my experience anyway.
For the longest time all the local newspapers out west would have a huge amount of news about things happening in Toronto, likely because the head offices of many of the papers got shifted to Toronto as part of the media consolidation. The TV nightly news often also had an outsized amount of reporting on the happenings of Toronto. Both tended to happen at the expense of reporting on local events more relevant to the typical viewer or reader. It also tended to happen as local papers were bought up and had their local content dry up to be replaced by more Toronto-centric reporting. Hence, the jokes about how Toronto thought itself to be the centre of the universe and that if it didn't happen in Toronto, that it wasn't worth knowing about.
Meanwhile, Québec media, being francophone, were never consolidated in Toronto, and thus we were exempt of this phenomenon and we hate Toronto for completely distinct reasons from the ROC.
Another thing I just remembered. It used to be almost impossible to get a hockey game on TV with a western Canada team (Calgary, Vancouver, Edmonton) unless they were playing one of the eastern teams (Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa). Frequently, unless they were playing Toronto. There were a number of notable occasions where there'd be a very big game that would decide if a team would get into the playoffs or not, or were between two big rivals and all you could find on TV was another game focusing on Toronto who was fighting for second last in the league or even between a couple of American teams. That adds the whole sports rivalry aspect into the relationship and many believed it was because Hockey Night in Canada and TSN were both based in Toronto.
The stuff I heard in BC was more of "Toronto thinks it is the centre of the universe" and less full on hate for the place. More of a butt of regional jokes like how BC is all flower picking hippie stoners or Alberta is all redneck cowboys, and Toronto is not aware that anything exists beyond Thunder Bay because of the Toronto event horizon.
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After his first week of driving solo he had 70 mistakes in his logbook.
I wouldn't call that a pattern of neglect. I would call it a training failure.
And while a bad logbook can be an attempt by a bad faith driver to do additional miles, reading examples in the article, it wasn't that.
But for the most part I myself am satisfied with his sentence. We should hold professional drivers to a higher standard, because they are on the road so much more with that many extra opportunities to make mistakes we need them to be extra vigilant.
MWO: Adamski
The concept is just....foreign to me
It's just generally being Canadian, and then being from Ottawa, though I guess in itself as the capital maybe it makes you feel more attached to the federal level than the provincial?
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Among other assumed Canadians I will probably identify as province or City first, but when international, it's always Canadian and maybe expand if I think they might have an idea of what Canada looks like internally.
MWO: Adamski
I don't want a bunch of little city states forming because every single person wants their own specific laws and shit.
To be clear I think this is why people are moving to be "Province First!". They want to piss in their own little pool and don't want anyone else's input and definitely don't want to be told what to do for the greater good (of Canada).
This can be pretty easily summed up with those asinine shirts that say "Republic of Vancouver Island".
Go fuck yourselves, we'd starve in a week without the rest of BC.
/rant.
(That said, amalgamation in the HRM was decades ago, but I'll go on referring to my part of the city as Occupied Dartmouth, thankyouverymuch!)
Yeah, it's always felt to me like a lot of region-first identification in Canada - especially the angry, vaguely secessionist kind that's been increasing in the last several years - hasn't been about "yay my neck of the woods" as much as "I hate the rest of the country."
Merely finding out I voluntarily live in the Maritimes has led to some downright astonishing venom hurled in my direction from Alberta- or Ontario-first types.
Do people actually sincerely insult people cause they're from the Maritimes?? The only crime my New Brunswicker of a boss has committed is being a Boston Bruins fan. I can't think of an actual real reason to hate on the Maritimes people might have...
Steam: CavilatRest
Yeah, I've never heard anything but positive stereotypes about Maritimers. I used to hear Newfie jokes back in, like, the 90s but recently I've only seen them known as "that enormous mass of nice people who had to leave Newfoundland cause there's no jobs there".
Allow me to explain, not as far as the "Republic of Vancouver Island" stupidity Aridhol mentions earlier but more as a familiarity of geographic experience. I didn't even know it was a thing, growing up poor I only get to move around so much, so it was basicly only the enviroments of Vancouver Island and a bit of the Fraser Valley up to about the Okanagan that I had any real life experience with. So when I finally had a chance to do a cross Canada trip to see a friend, it was surreal once I hit the prairies. It felt like suddenly Tragicly Hip songs made so much more sense. It felt like someone had taken me out into the Pacific on a boat past where we can see land anymore and frozen the ocean in place, the sky was so BIG. And the thunderstorms, holy crap, it was like earthquakes from the sky! And people call hills mountains, trees are tiny and farther apart in the forest trails, more statues pop up, the mosquitos and flies shrink in size but change from pests into plagues that damn near black out street lamps, and people's porches flip around from the back to the front...
I really got to miss the mountains in BC that hold up the sky, I cried when I saw the Rockies again on my way back.
I can't help but wonder, if I wasn't so damn poor, how much more might I identify as Canadian than British Columbian simply because I would be able to afford to travel? I've never been in a plane before, how might my perspective on our world change if I had that opportunity?
Mostly depended on the circle you were running in though. I was working a labor job at the time, and had no issues and mostly just heard complimentary things (hard workers, best kind, etc.). My girlfriend at the time worked in an office at an oil company, and that was more of what I described above.
Ontario though? Ontarians don’t seem to put the province above the Country because we arrogantly think we ARE Canada, or at least we are ‘default’ Canada.
WoW
Dear Satan.....
You've not been in an airplane before!?
Like even a cesna?
going over the island at a few thousand feet for the first time made me feel like an astronaut or some kind of crazy explorer. It's a punch to the face and gut about just how huge this place is. It makes your brain go *boink* and shut down.
Unfortunately my direct manager has monopolized the one trip to BC we have this year. After my Winnipeg trip in a couple weeks, I'll still have to visit that and the territories. Hopefully there's good food in Winnipeg?
Steam: CavilatRest
Depends on your tastes and if you are asking about fine dining vs casual, but my 'Pegger of a wife has introduced me to the Fatboy. Which is what everyone else in the world calls a chili-burger. But Winnipegers just think of them as hamburgers. Not refined eats in the slightest, but very tasty! Don't ask for a chili-burger through. I made that mistake once. The burger came to table with a heaping ladleful of chili poured OVER the entire sandwich. I was like "WTF?" and my wife and her uncle and aunt just pointed at me and laughed. Vijays is good, but also has the best fries to go with.
I mean, I don't really approach it from a point of arrogance. Moreso that I never felt there was anything special or noteworthy about us as a province compared to say, certain markers you have for people from certain American states. So identifying as an Ontarian holds as much weight as identifying as someone from my specific suburb. It's just a place to me. I find the general national identity more relatable; we're boring, provincially.
I don't think I've ever heard any truly meanspirited Newfie/Maritimer jokes, so maybe they fell out of vogue by the time I got sentient enough to remember any. I've pretty well only heard the term in context to talk about how ridiculously nice everyone on the coast is?? And to describe certain parts of the Newfie/Maritime Experience.
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Having moved back to Winnipeg after many years in Edmonton, I will say that the food is really good.
Ethnic food and fine dining has limited selection and is hard to find, but Canadiana cuisine is abundant and delicious. We have monthly City wide contests for different dishes that restaurants participate in. Fried Chicken, Poutine, Burgers, etc.
MWO: Adamski
I can't speak to the greater cuisine options in Winnipeg. We only come in once every year for the Folk Festival, to see her family/show off our kids, and eat the food that she misses now that she's been in the GTA for almost 20 years. Which is definitely not the amazing ethnic choices we have here or fine dining choices. But rather the comfort foods of her childhood: City Rye bread, fatboys, and Bridge Drive-In milkshakes.
I've never found Ontarians to ever put forth much of a provincial identity. I guess not beyond aggressive driving compared to everywhere but Quebec.
And to be fair to your point, 2 out of 5 Canadians are Ontarians so if that's not the default I don't know what is. :P
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
I would identify as "from x place" within Canada mostly because I assume the other Canadians I'm talking to on a daily basis would know I'm Canadian and thus it doesn't need saying.
But yeah, being from Ontario is way to vague to be meaningful on almost any issue. You've got like Northern Ontario which is different from Southwestern Ontario which is different from the Toronto suburbs which is different from the city itself and so on and so forth. And even then I've never found anyone to really assert that as an identity in any strong or arrogant way.
Yeah I don't really have any idea what the Ontarian identity is, as somebody who's been living here for the past 35 years.
I could give you some thoughts on Toronto (and Brampton), but I couldn't speak for someone in say, Sarnia or Thunder Bay.
I just realized that it may also have to do with a movement within Canada to try to follow the UN recent ruling on First Nations treatment.
MWO: Adamski
Heh, the coworker I share an office with is from Ontario, and was genuinely surprised when I told him I had friends also from there who spoke fluent French. The whole North/South divide of Ontario and New Brunswick and their relative proximity to Quebec really make for some ... interesting cultural dichotomies.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
The reality is that clearly Ontario just has MORE cultures, and more is better, right?
Wait, I believe in diversity, more IS better.
That's a Texas size 10-4
I can definitely see people being wary of some instances of province/region over Canadian though. It's certainly not always as benign.
I will say, if I'm talking to someone from outside of Canada, it's pretty much always Canada to start for me.
Edit: Another interesting case would be some of my relatives in the French parts of New Brunswick. Most of them are very proudly Canadian. They almost all identify strongly (in some cases the strongest) with being Acadian, while few if any feel any particular way about being from New Brunswick. Though I feel in part it's that for many Acadians, Acadia as a region sort of subs in for the 'local region' in place of province.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/sukhmander-singh-humboldt-crash-trucking-company-guilty-plea-1.5073159
They're log book violations. There actually wasn't much regulations on the books that directly affected the accident in question.
Out west is where people were the most adamant about the whole thing. Quebec seemed to just disdain Toronto as being too uptight. The people I knew from rural Ontario, if they had any opinions all, mostly seemed to think the city was dangerous and scary and full of crime or something. That was my experience anyway.
Sure, but he was allowing his employees to operate unsafely, very likely contributing to the incident. How fucked up is it that the new employee gets 8 years of prison time and (very likely) deportation, but the owner of the company who is responsible for the training and monitoring this process gets a $1,000 fine per instance.
If the driver is getting turbo fucked because the crime was failing to stop at a stop sign but the CONSEQUENCE was life altering/ending, should we not be holding the managing parties to a similar standard?! I don't believe that the owner should get the same punishment, but this disparity is a bit much for my taste.
For the longest time all the local newspapers out west would have a huge amount of news about things happening in Toronto, likely because the head offices of many of the papers got shifted to Toronto as part of the media consolidation. The TV nightly news often also had an outsized amount of reporting on the happenings of Toronto. Both tended to happen at the expense of reporting on local events more relevant to the typical viewer or reader. It also tended to happen as local papers were bought up and had their local content dry up to be replaced by more Toronto-centric reporting. Hence, the jokes about how Toronto thought itself to be the centre of the universe and that if it didn't happen in Toronto, that it wasn't worth knowing about.
Meanwhile, Québec media, being francophone, were never consolidated in Toronto, and thus we were exempt of this phenomenon and we hate Toronto for completely distinct reasons from the ROC.
I agree 100%. I caught a lot of looks a few years ago while waiting in line at a Tim's in Transcona (a neighborhood in Winnipeg): Brown dude. Folk Fest volunteer shirt. Argos hat. I don't know what they were specifically upset about that day, but I was giving them options!
But the husband of a friends brother-in-law I met a few times at various cottage weekends originally hails from Vancouver and summed up the Toronto hate like this...
First, nobody knows anything about Toronto and the vast majority of people who hate it have the feeling just because they're told they should. Second, anyone who comes to Toronto for the dreaded meeting never actually get to see the real city. They stay at a fancy hotel. They see the inside of an office building or the convention centre. Maybe they go for dinner at one of the overly expensive business district restaurants that cater almost exclusively to corporate diners and after work drinkers, and then they fly home.
So the only impression they get is the "work all the time, stick up the butt, boring" stereotype because everyone they meet is in work-mode. Very few other Canadians stay long enough to explore the city, take in the multiculturalism, see the grittiness of some areas or the funkiness or the electicness of what life is actually like if you live in the city.
And that is a shame. Because even though I was raised in the suburbs of T.O, and now that I am a grown ass adult with kids now back living in the suburbs, I moved down to the heart of city from the ages of 19 to 34. At first for school from living in a dorm (Ryerson), to renting my first apartment in the ghetto (St. James Town) to a nice top floor one bedroom apartment in midtown (Yonge & Eg). I love Toronto an I will always fucking love it.
Another thing I just remembered. It used to be almost impossible to get a hockey game on TV with a western Canada team (Calgary, Vancouver, Edmonton) unless they were playing one of the eastern teams (Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa). Frequently, unless they were playing Toronto. There were a number of notable occasions where there'd be a very big game that would decide if a team would get into the playoffs or not, or were between two big rivals and all you could find on TV was another game focusing on Toronto who was fighting for second last in the league or even between a couple of American teams. That adds the whole sports rivalry aspect into the relationship and many believed it was because Hockey Night in Canada and TSN were both based in Toronto.
The stuff I heard in BC was more of "Toronto thinks it is the centre of the universe" and less full on hate for the place. More of a butt of regional jokes like how BC is all flower picking hippie stoners or Alberta is all redneck cowboys, and Toronto is not aware that anything exists beyond Thunder Bay because of the Toronto event horizon.