i'm thinking about "bomb warrior" though and in all honesty it's probably not a deck archetype on its own
instead it looks to me like a package you slot into a midrange-y or aggro-y kinda deck (like a fast aggressive midrange deck, i mean, not aggro aggro). clockwork goblin, seaforium bomber, wrenchcalibur, blastmaster boom (not entirely sure about Seaforium Bomber, but the other three yeah for sure)
no stupid shenanigans with the dumb +1 shuffle elekk, just a bunch of bombs you slap in your opponent's deck that will bring you closer to lethal
I wonder if maybe it was designed as something else and then changed late in the process. The art is him stacking up a pile of explosives, which doesn't imply armor gain to me.
I wonder if maybe it was designed as something else and then changed late in the process. The art is him stacking up a pile of explosives, which doesn't imply armor gain to me.
"Shuffle X bombs into your opponents deck." Is the first thing that came to mind. Which sounds like it would work in theory with Boom, but then seemed incredibly OP in Playtesting.
it's funny because the schemes are like quests you have to hold in your hand and just wait for, and the payoff is worse
What's funny is that Quests, on their face, are not a bad idea. MtG has them. But while the effects should be powerful enough that you want to play them, they shouldn't be so damned powerful that it takes 6-7 turns to achieve them, and once you do, you win the game.
Like, you could have a Warrior quest that's just, "After damaging 3 of your own minions, gain 8 armor." That'd be fine. It'd also give us more 1-cost cards to actually play, and you wouldn't have to play it on T1 to get the most use out of it.
But no, we must abandon every mechanic all the time, and invent new ones that are worse.
And while on the one hand I get why they're trying mechanics that take advantage of the fact that Hearthstone is a video game that can track changes to cards throughout the game, at the same time it doesn't mean that every mechanic you can think of that does so is a good one.
I wonder if anybody had the thought that you could start the scheme cards at higher than 1 or upgrade at an increment larger than 1.
Like, maybe that would have helped them out here.
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IlpalaJust this guy, y'knowTexasRegistered Userregular
I'm still convinced they were trying to make it as a fatigue warrior tool but goddamn would it have just been broken there tuned any other way (Starting higher than 1, gaining more than 1 a turn)
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lwt1973King of ThievesSyndicationRegistered Userregular
like generally speaking, i'm okay with printing bad cards. i think it's good to have a range of options both for limited play and for helping newer players learn how to evaluate cards, which is a skill that is actually very difficult to organically teach.
but boy! that's a bad card!
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IlpalaJust this guy, y'knowTexasRegistered Userregular
edited March 2019
I also appreciate the very careful costing and balancing of Togwaggle to allow "Lackey, Togwaggle, Treasure" on turn 10
Given the power of those treasures (and the fact that you just get your pick rather than a random one), it seems a pretty strong option. Course that depends on lackeys being efficient enough to generate.
Ilpala on
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Fuck Joe Manchin
I know we already talked about Boom's Scheme, but man that card is seriously so bad. I don't think it would be playable even at 0 mana.
The only things I can think it's good for are to turn Shield Slam into a quick 2-card 2-mana removal combo, and to use Heavy Metal when you have no armor.
But that's about it. Maybe we'll see some cards that use it better, but yeah right now it looks pretty bad.
Yeah but then you're putting Heavy Metal in your deck.
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
I also appreciate the very careful costing and balancing of Togwaggle to allow "Lackey, Togwaggle, Treasure" on turn 10
Given the power of those treasures (and the fact that you just get your pick rather than a random one), it seems a pretty strong option. Course that depends on lackeys being efficient enough to generate.
I know we already talked about Boom's Scheme, but man that card is seriously so bad. I don't think it would be playable even at 0 mana.
The only things I can think it's good for are to turn Shield Slam into a quick 2-card 2-mana removal combo, and to use Heavy Metal when you have no armor.
But that's about it. Maybe we'll see some cards that use it better, but yeah right now it looks pretty bad.
Yeah but then you're putting Heavy Metal in your deck.
Oh, that statement shouldn't be confused with actual advice. I totally get that Heavy Metal sucks.
I, on the other hand, am very confident in this team seeing that they didn't slap a "give your rush minions +1/1" bandaid on that puppy.
I'm admittedly biased, but if it applied to all my Rush minions, on the board, in my hand, in my deck, it'd be a playable card.
I'm also hoping they don't give up on Rush Warrior this expac, because it's losing very very little with this rotation and its natural predators are losing a lot with this rotation.
i'm thinking about "bomb warrior" though and in all honesty it's probably not a deck archetype on its own
instead it looks to me like a package you slot into a midrange-y or aggro-y kinda deck (like a fast aggressive midrange deck, i mean, not aggro aggro). clockwork goblin, seaforium bomber, wrenchcalibur, blastmaster boom (not entirely sure about Seaforium Bomber, but the other three yeah for sure)
no stupid shenanigans with the dumb +1 shuffle elekk, just a bunch of bombs you slap in your opponent's deck that will bring you closer to lethal
hmmmm~
hi guys i'm thinking about bomb warrior some more
still don't know if it'll be an actual deck, BUT to me it's really interesting that all of a sudden we have this card no one gave two shits about (Seaforium Bomber) that we'd now want to run
Seaforium Bomber before was just this dumb 5/5 that would shuffle one 5 damage bomb in and it's basically like wow who gives a shit, right
but now we have consistency. it's not just two bombs we can shuffle in, it's eight. and because we have this consistency that means there's a real actual gameplan now. a potential eight total shuffles represents a pretty high likelihood of having your opponent draw them. given that plus a legendary that ties it all together, we want to run all the bomb cards possible! and i think that's really cool.
i also do think there's a strong possibility of it being an actual thing, though. i mean look at fal'dorei strider, that was good enough to see play. you shuffle enough bombs in, put pressure on your opponent by going face (esp with cards like Kor'kron Elite etc), have a strong finisher in say, Grom, and you've got yourself a very aggressive sort of deck that can potentially put your opponent into surprise lethal range.
i'll be trying it, anyway
otherwise though i think you could get away with slotting just Boom and Wrenchcalibur in other decks as your sole activators.
Of course the next Scheme revealed after my post theorizing on their Scheme tuning philosophy completely blows my idea out of the water. 4 mana!? What a terrible fucking card. It's like they combined Iron Hide and Shield Block (in mana cost) and took away everything that makes either card worthwhile in any way.
Rush/bomb might work. Gain back the tempo from the rush minions you lose whilst playing the bomb minions. That deck usually had a problem closing things out. An inevitable 40 damage should help that side.
I know whenever an interesting looking value rogue legendary is revealed, the thread has a discussion about how viable value plays are for Rogue. Last time it was about Myra Rotspring being not good enough, but damn, the Marin treasures can be really strong and this guy isn't too overcosted. He could see play or at least experimentation.
I guess it'll come down to whether or not Rogue can make a worthwhile deck with Lackey generation.
i'm thinking about "bomb warrior" though and in all honesty it's probably not a deck archetype on its own
instead it looks to me like a package you slot into a midrange-y or aggro-y kinda deck (like a fast aggressive midrange deck, i mean, not aggro aggro). clockwork goblin, seaforium bomber, wrenchcalibur, blastmaster boom (not entirely sure about Seaforium Bomber, but the other three yeah for sure)
no stupid shenanigans with the dumb +1 shuffle elekk, just a bunch of bombs you slap in your opponent's deck that will bring you closer to lethal
hmmmm~
I dunno. Shuffle elekk is still a 3 mana 3/4. If you're playing 3 mana 3/3s (possible mech synergy, granted) and 5 mana 5/5s, maybe a 3 mana 3/4 that sometimes has an upside is worth trying out.
It's hard to say. Togwaggle requires Lackeys, which requires Lackey generators, and the 2 Lackey generators we've seen are both pretty awful. I don't really want to play a 2 mana 1/1 or a 3 mana 1/5 and then hold the Lackey until turn 7 so I can get Togwaggle value. That value is pretty good if you hit it, but it's a hoop you have to jump through and it's a little slow. It may simply be a case of there not being any stronger options in comparison.
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instead it looks to me like a package you slot into a midrange-y or aggro-y kinda deck (like a fast aggressive midrange deck, i mean, not aggro aggro). clockwork goblin, seaforium bomber, wrenchcalibur, blastmaster boom (not entirely sure about Seaforium Bomber, but the other three yeah for sure)
no stupid shenanigans with the dumb +1 shuffle elekk, just a bunch of bombs you slap in your opponent's deck that will bring you closer to lethal
hmmmm~
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
"Shuffle X bombs into your opponents deck." Is the first thing that came to mind. Which sounds like it would work in theory with Boom, but then seemed incredibly OP in Playtesting.
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yowza
What's funny is that Quests, on their face, are not a bad idea. MtG has them. But while the effects should be powerful enough that you want to play them, they shouldn't be so damned powerful that it takes 6-7 turns to achieve them, and once you do, you win the game.
Like, you could have a Warrior quest that's just, "After damaging 3 of your own minions, gain 8 armor." That'd be fine. It'd also give us more 1-cost cards to actually play, and you wouldn't have to play it on T1 to get the most use out of it.
But no, we must abandon every mechanic all the time, and invent new ones that are worse.
And while on the one hand I get why they're trying mechanics that take advantage of the fact that Hearthstone is a video game that can track changes to cards throughout the game, at the same time it doesn't mean that every mechanic you can think of that does so is a good one.
at 1 mana it would take 4 turns to be as good at the ironhide card from un'goro.
So, yeah. At 0 mana it would only be good in that it is a spell that costs 0 mana.
Like, maybe that would have helped them out here.
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Fuck Joe Manchin
At least it's a common so we won't have it take up Epic slots.
but boy! that's a bad card!
Given the power of those treasures (and the fact that you just get your pick rather than a random one), it seems a pretty strong option. Course that depends on lackeys being efficient enough to generate.
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Fuck Joe Manchin
Yeah but then you're putting Heavy Metal in your deck.
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Lackey, Togwaggle, prep, Treasure on 7.
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Oh, that statement shouldn't be confused with actual advice. I totally get that Heavy Metal sucks.
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Fuck Joe Manchin
it 100% shuffled bombs into the deck before the pre-release nerf, and now it just kinda does nothing and has no flavor either.
this team... it doesn't fill me with confidence.
i'm glad i decided not to preorder, yikes.
4 mana, Jesus Christ that has to be a mistake, that's unspeakably bad.
increase its mana cost by 1 until it's no longer a card you'd rather have than boom's scheme
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Fuck Joe Manchin
it's just one card, i mean
one bad card, but
you shouldn't let one single card deter you from making a decision, unless you were already sort of set on it from the get go
we haven't even seen the entire set yet
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
I'm admittedly biased, but if it applied to all my Rush minions, on the board, in my hand, in my deck, it'd be a playable card.
I'm also hoping they don't give up on Rush Warrior this expac, because it's losing very very little with this rotation and its natural predators are losing a lot with this rotation.
If it's just the ones on board? Hmm, I dunno. That's tough.
I think ultimately the effect isn't the issue at that point, but that I've had to mulligan for the card and hold it in my hand all this time.
hi guys i'm thinking about bomb warrior some more
still don't know if it'll be an actual deck, BUT to me it's really interesting that all of a sudden we have this card no one gave two shits about (Seaforium Bomber) that we'd now want to run
Seaforium Bomber before was just this dumb 5/5 that would shuffle one 5 damage bomb in and it's basically like wow who gives a shit, right
but now we have consistency. it's not just two bombs we can shuffle in, it's eight. and because we have this consistency that means there's a real actual gameplan now. a potential eight total shuffles represents a pretty high likelihood of having your opponent draw them. given that plus a legendary that ties it all together, we want to run all the bomb cards possible! and i think that's really cool.
i also do think there's a strong possibility of it being an actual thing, though. i mean look at fal'dorei strider, that was good enough to see play. you shuffle enough bombs in, put pressure on your opponent by going face (esp with cards like Kor'kron Elite etc), have a strong finisher in say, Grom, and you've got yourself a very aggressive sort of deck that can potentially put your opponent into surprise lethal range.
i'll be trying it, anyway
otherwise though i think you could get away with slotting just Boom and Wrenchcalibur in other decks as your sole activators.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
well we're about to enter a meta where a lot of those mass armor cards are going away, so.........
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
important to remember that it can easily slot into a separate shell that is running cards that can also do damage, like grom
Bring Back Grom, dev team
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I know whenever an interesting looking value rogue legendary is revealed, the thread has a discussion about how viable value plays are for Rogue. Last time it was about Myra Rotspring being not good enough, but damn, the Marin treasures can be really strong and this guy isn't too overcosted. He could see play or at least experimentation.
I guess it'll come down to whether or not Rogue can make a worthwhile deck with Lackey generation.
i'm not in love with what's been shown so far