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US Govt Shutdown 2018: It's a Trump Christmas Shutdown!

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Posts

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Shorty wrote: »
    wait, I thought the new crop of reps hadn't been seated yet? so is it really that hard for the republicans to agree on how shittily they want to govern?

    Yes.

    Also what's funny is a large part of the rebellion is the Freedom Caucus who is like, "WE DON'T WANT TO SPEND ANY MORE MONEY RAWR!" Also there is a large group of Republicans who just lost for this exact shit that may not be inclined to vote for it.

    Pelosi sets him off by saying "Just pass it in the House Trump. Go ahead and do it." and she knows he can't and it pisses him off.

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  • VariableVariable Ted Hitler Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    shutdowns are bad and hurt people

    trump has owned this shut down and forget the morality since clearly the two sides disagree, he said mexico would pay for it. democrats are supporting the entire country when they don't allow money to be spent on something that trump promised not to spend money on.

    I'm not saying many or any people will actually change their mind here but there's no position where trump is correct or supporting this shutdown is consistent with stated beliefs of his supporters. media needs to dig in on the '10 terrorist' lie from the conference and dems need to keep playing hard ball. the meeting looked goodfor them imo but I'm obviously super biased.

    I think he lost Coulter some time ago but she called him a liar re: already building the wall (so did Schumer I think) and I feel like that has to signal how a lot of people feel. him looking childish will not help him with these folks either.

    idk I'm never right because I expect reality to make sense, still, for some reason, but this is how I feel today. also feel glad I voted how I did and happy that the best party option II have did something I wanted them to do. or at least that it looks like that for this 24 hours.


    *yes I know he's been clearly incorrect and childish many times before. I don't recall him having 2 dems look quite so superior in a room with him, though.

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  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    wait, I thought the new crop of reps hadn't been seated yet? so is it really that hard for the republicans to agree on how shittily they want to govern?

    There's enough business as usual Reps that the American Purifier types always manage to put enough of them off when this circus comes to town every few months.

    Some Republicans golden goose is getting a proposed haircut in these psychopaths budget and its one of the few times that the degree to which our elected officials are held captive by special interests is actually beneficial.

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  • cursedkingcursedking Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Dems are in a position of overwhelming strength, so don’t confuse what I’m asking about for cynicism.

    This might be a long shutdown y’all!

    I wasn't

    like it or not, when a toddler throws shit all over, people blame the parents because toddlers are toddlers and it's up to the grown ups to control them.

    In this case, half the country is egging the toddlers on but will still blame the parents no matter what. Meanwhile the parent's just want to not have to clean up a bunch of crap.

    I really, really don't think this is the case. When the GOP has pushed the dems into a shutdown battle in previous years, they could at least try and pin blame about policy in some way that might appeal to their base and force them into being shitty cowards because they think they can't win.

    this is trump, only trump, saying loudly that he is forcing a shut down. If this continues apace and he doesn't back down, public opinion aside from his rabid followers is going to completely collapse. The wall is not a popular idea, he's not a popular president, and he said, outloud, that he wants a shutdown. At this point, in this scenario, he's bluffing without even holding any cards. He thinks the wall is a bigger deal with people than it actually is.

    There is no reason for the dems to back down, they can just play "it will be a beautiful shutdown" on loop.

  • AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    “Trump shuts down the government, Blue Wave Dems open it up again” is a great message.

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  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    cursedking wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Dems are in a position of overwhelming strength, so don’t confuse what I’m asking about for cynicism.

    This might be a long shutdown y’all!

    I wasn't

    like it or not, when a toddler throws shit all over, people blame the parents because toddlers are toddlers and it's up to the grown ups to control them.

    In this case, half the country is egging the toddlers on but will still blame the parents no matter what. Meanwhile the parent's just want to not have to clean up a bunch of crap.

    I really, really don't think this is the case. When the GOP has pushed the dems into a shutdown battle in previous years, they could at least try and pin blame about policy in some way that might appeal to their base and force them into being shitty cowards because they think they can't win.

    this is trump, only trump, saying loudly that he is forcing a shut down. If this continues apace and he doesn't back down, public opinion aside from his rabid followers is going to completely collapse. The wall is not a popular idea, he's not a popular president, and he said, outloud, that he wants a shutdown. At this point, in this scenario, he's bluffing without even holding any cards. He thinks the wall is a bigger deal with people than it actually is.

    There is no reason for the dems to back down, they can just play "it will be a beautiful shutdown" on loop.

    People who do/would attend rallies love the wall, it's the most popular episode of his reality show Presidency Island. Even bigger then Hillary's prison island luau.

    No one else wants it.

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  • BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    Veevee wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    SCHUMER wrote:
    When the president brags that he won North Dakota and Indiana, he’s in real trouble.

    Senate minority leader got his hits in

    I can already hear the cries from the midwest about coastal elites hating the midwest. This was not as good a burn as some people want us to believe it was. It may be a political truth, but this felt like Schumer stepping on his own toes while saying the quiet part out loud.

    I live in Indiana. Its a pretty good burn.

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  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    The incoming Dem house will happily send up a clean CR every day.

    At that point either the Republican senate refuses to take action or Trump vetos it.

    I just don’t see Dems getting the blame this time around.

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  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    The incoming Dem house will happily send up a clean CR every day.

    At that point either the Republican senate refuses to take action or Trump vetos it.

    I just don’t see Dems getting the blame this time around.

    You underestimate the willingness of the media to blame them for everything

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  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    The incoming Dem house will happily send up a clean CR every day.

    At that point either the Republican senate refuses to take action or Trump vetos it.

    I just don’t see Dems getting the blame this time around.

    You underestimate the willingness of the media to blame them for everything
    Let alone the ability of Democrats to get in their own way on this sort of matter.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    The incoming Dem house will happily send up a clean CR every day.

    At that point either the Republican senate refuses to take action or Trump vetos it.

    I just don’t see Dems getting the blame this time around.

    You underestimate the willingness of the media to blame them for everything

    Theres a feedback loop between dem behavior and media messaging there

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  • iTunesIsEviliTunesIsEvil Registered User regular
    Bucketman wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    SCHUMER wrote:
    When the president brags that he won North Dakota and Indiana, he’s in real trouble.

    Senate minority leader got his hits in

    I can already hear the cries from the midwest about coastal elites hating the midwest. This was not as good a burn as some people want us to believe it was. It may be a political truth, but this felt like Schumer stepping on his own toes while saying the quiet part out loud.

    I live in Indiana. Its a pretty good burn.

    Ditto. It wasn't some "flyover country" bullshit. It was "this guy's bragging that the Republicans won some very red states. Oh, gee, whoda thunk, right?"

    I'm tired of the thing we/media do where folks accept that R's are going to be jerks about blue states (see: Cruz and his comments about Beto wanting to turn TX into CA "right down to tofu and silicon and dyed hair."), but D's need to not even side-eye red states lest they be tarred and feathered.

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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie ATOMIKA! IT’S ME! IT’S DESKTOP HIPPIE!Registered User regular
    It really does seem like Pelosi and Schumer are all out of fucks to give. See this golden moment when she's asked why she wanted to discuss the matter with Trump in private and replies that she didn't want to tell Trump he didn't know what he was talking about in public.


    Tommy is a writer for ShareBlue, but the footage is via C-Span.

    Given just how out of fucks Pelosi and Schumer are, I honestly can't see them caving on this shutdown. They've made it clear shutdowns hurt people, they've made it clear they've given Trump an out (two outs, according to Schumer) and they have Trump on camera saying it's his shutdown. If they still somehow get blamed after all of that then America's beyond hope anyway.

    In other news I think we have a winner in our brief "single photo that captures the Trump tantrum perfectly" search.


    Kyle is a producer with MSNBC.

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    The incoming Dem house will happily send up a clean CR every day.

    At that point either the Republican senate refuses to take action or Trump vetos it.

    I just don’t see Dems getting the blame this time around.

    Also, Pelosi is good at counting. She can probably find the 2/3rds necessary to override a Veto with good old pork should it come to it. So it'd be entirely on McConnell and Trump.

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    The incoming Dem house will happily send up a clean CR every day.

    At that point either the Republican senate refuses to take action or Trump vetos it.

    I just don’t see Dems getting the blame this time around.

    Also, Pelosi is good at counting. She can probably find the 2/3rds necessary to override a Veto with good old pork should it come to it. So it'd be entirely on McConnell and Trump.

    She isn't running the House yet. Ryan is.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    The incoming Dem house will happily send up a clean CR every day.

    At that point either the Republican senate refuses to take action or Trump vetos it.

    I just don’t see Dems getting the blame this time around.

    Also, Pelosi is good at counting. She can probably find the 2/3rds necessary to override a Veto with good old pork should it come to it. So it'd be entirely on McConnell and Trump.

    She isn't running the House yet. Ryan is.

    If Trump shuts things down it's not going to be for a weekend. I would expect it to last to January 3rd at least.

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  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    So let me get this straight. This is all over Americans not paying for a wall that Trump promised, repeatedly, Americans would not pay a dime for?

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  • VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    I assume DHS isnt directly affected, but is a shutdown likely to impact holiday travel?

    That would really piss people off.

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    VishNub wrote: »
    I assume DHS isnt directly affected, but is a shutdown likely to impact holiday travel?

    That would really piss people off.

    DHS is directly affected. TSA agents , ICE, etc keep working but for IOUs. Non "essential" staff goes home and it is in fact illegal for them to work.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    VishNub wrote: »
    I assume DHS isnt directly affected, but is a shutdown likely to impact holiday travel?

    That would really piss people off.

    I imagine they'll just carve out a "these people have to work but aren't getting paid" exception I think they did it last time.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie ATOMIKA! IT’S ME! IT’S DESKTOP HIPPIE!Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    VishNub wrote: »
    I assume DHS isnt directly affected, but is a shutdown likely to impact holiday travel?

    That would really piss people off.

    DHS is directly affected. TSA agents , ICE, etc keep working but for IOUs. Non "essential" staff goes home and it is in fact illegal for them to work.

    So the guy under criminal investigation wants a wall across your border to stop criminals getting in, and his plan to accomplish this is to stop the people who guard your borders to stop criminals from getting in getting paid?

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    VishNub wrote: »
    I assume DHS isnt directly affected, but is a shutdown likely to impact holiday travel?

    That would really piss people off.

    DHS is directly affected. TSA agents , ICE, etc keep working but for IOUs. Non "essential" staff goes home and it is in fact illegal for them to work.

    So the guy under criminal investigation wants a wall across your border to stop criminals getting in, and his plan to accomplish this is to stop the people who guard your borders to stop criminals from getting in getting paid?

    It's all MAGA all the time. He's going to make america so great we won't even realize it

    Sad thing is he can make america great again resign in disgrace and take his whole crooked admin with him.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    So let me get this straight. This is all over Americans not paying for a wall that Trump promised, repeatedly, Americans would not pay a dime for?

    Pretty much. Donald wants his wall no matter who has to pay for it- one would wonder, though, if he were as rich as he claims to be, why not just offer to pay for it himself? Then again, if he really wants a wall, maybe Santa will bring him a bin of Duplo blocks (he's not mature enough for Legos) and let him build a wall around the Oval Office and hang a "No Libruls Alowed" sign on it.

    The Dems can simply stonewall it and they have the goal in sight. They get to the 3rd, or hell, even Christmas (imagine how bad Trump would look if he forced the Republicans to spend Christmas in Washington), and it's game over. No wall, no how, and he fails to deliver on it. I imagine the meltdown will be glorious to behold.

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    VishNub wrote: »
    I assume DHS isnt directly affected, but is a shutdown likely to impact holiday travel?

    That would really piss people off.

    DHS is directly affected. TSA agents , ICE, etc keep working but for IOUs. Non "essential" staff goes home and it is in fact illegal for them to work.

    So the guy under criminal investigation wants a wall across your border to stop criminals getting in, and his plan to accomplish this is to stop the people who guard your borders to stop criminals from getting in getting paid?

    CBP are considered Essential in a shutdown and so have to work without pay.

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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    Why doesnt donald get private investors to fund the wall if it would actually benefit our economy so much

  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    The question that I'm sure is on everyone's mind is whether Trump properties get paid during a government shutdown. For example, if the Secret Service needs to rent a bunch of golf carts at a Trump golf club, are those expenses paid during the shutdown?



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  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    because private investors aren't that fucking stupid

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    So, uh, do the bits of DHS that try to stop terrorist plots still get paid?

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    JaysonFour wrote: »
    So let me get this straight. This is all over Americans not paying for a wall that Trump promised, repeatedly, Americans would not pay a dime for?

    Pretty much. Donald wants his wall no matter who has to pay for it- one would wonder, though, if he were as rich as he claims to be, why not just offer to pay for it himself? .

    Trump claims to have a fortune of 4.5 billion and the wall will cost 12 billion. Probably the first number is too high and the second too low.

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    So, uh, do the bits of DHS that try to stop terrorist plots still get paid?

    Nope!

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  • VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    So, uh, do the bits of DHS that try to stop terrorist plots still get paid?

    Nope!

    I think in every case so far everyone is paid retroactively.

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  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    VishNub wrote: »
    I assume DHS isnt directly affected, but is a shutdown likely to impact holiday travel?

    That would really piss people off.

    DHS is directly affected. TSA agents , ICE, etc keep working but for IOUs. Non "essential" staff goes home and it is in fact illegal for them to work.
    And when the non essential workers get back they get paid, and the essential personnel get their vacations canceled.

  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist Registered User regular
    VishNub wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    So, uh, do the bits of DHS that try to stop terrorist plots still get paid?

    Nope!

    I think in every case so far everyone is paid retroactively.

    Except contractors, I remember that being controversial.

    ... So NPR played some of this. You could hear the shock in the host's voice.

    I just... what did Donald think would happen by turning this private negotiating session into a public, BROADCAST thing? Just... he's a man who can't take being on equal footing with a woman, and he HATES Pelosi. Did he think he would embarass her into backing down? Jesus.

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  • VeagleVeagle Registered User regular
    VishNub wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    So, uh, do the bits of DHS that try to stop terrorist plots still get paid?

    Nope!

    I think in every case so far everyone is paid retroactively.

    So far, yes, though the worry is that with Trump in charge, precedent isn't quite as reassuring.

    Also essential positions are still required to work, they just won't be getting paid until that retroactive pay is authorized.

    And here is that all too obvious sound byte that Trump just wandered into.

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  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    All of them sit so uncomfortably. Trump is nearly squatting in front of his chair.

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    PLA wrote: »
    All of them sit so uncomfortably. Trump is nearly squatting in front of his chair.

    Expensive antique chairs are not comfy.

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  • VeagleVeagle Registered User regular
    PLA wrote: »
    All of them sit so uncomfortably. Trump is nearly squatting in front of his chair.

    Expensive antique chairs are not comfy.

    Also, probably not designed with a televised policy debate in mind.

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  • MillMill Registered User regular
    A few thing worth keeping in mind.

    -Most of the red state democrats got booted in 2018. So Senate Democrats have a ton more margin to play with because they don't have to pitch things to try and make it easier for red state democratic senators to win re-election. At least not for 2020 elections. Also seems like both Tester and Jones aren't inclined to run on anti-immigrant bullshit, so not a ton of push for a bullshit wall. Don't know if Manchin cares, but at this point really doesn't fucking matter.

    -Wall gets less popular he further south you go. Ton of racist republicans that still hate immigrants, but they have also don't like how the wall might either interfere with their business or results in them, their family and/or friends losing land (or having it marred by the wall).

    -Just a quick glance shows that the the Department of Agriculture isn't funded, so they we'll get an interesting dynamic where some Trump friendly states probably get fucked by this. I imagine more republicans in Iowa would take not getting fucked by a shutdown, over getting some fucking wall on the border. Like this is about to hit the point where it does personally impact them. If anything this hurts the GOP even more in places where they need to not shit the bed.

    -Last I checked, during the last very short shutdown early this year, the democrats didn't give any concessions. The GOP essentially took what they offered.

    I don't think democrats fold on this. There really isn't a benefit to them. it's a partial shutdown and some of what is getting shut down isn't very popular with their base. The wall isn't popular and it's not just hated by their base and even some of the GOP base isn't wild about it. Plus, Trump owned it in the most irrefutable way and the democrats can always point out the GOP controls the House, Senate and WH and they couldn't get their shit together.

    ElvenshaeElldren
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    -Wall gets less popular he further south you go. Ton of racist republicans that still hate immigrants, but they have also don't like how the wall might either interfere with their business or results in them, their family and/or friends losing land (or having it marred by the wall).
    Can you provide a citation on this particular point?

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • NotYouNotYou Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Mill wrote: »
    -Wall gets less popular he further south you go. Ton of racist republicans that still hate immigrants, but they have also don't like how the wall might either interfere with their business or results in them, their family and/or friends losing land (or having it marred by the wall).
    Can you provide a citation on this particular point?

    I wish I had a link, but Bourdain's recent episode in Texas showcased a lot of Texans that would travel back and forth and have their companies sending stuff back and forth over the border all day every day. Stuff that's partially built in Mexico, returned to Texas for more finishing or vice versa. Also showed a man whose daughter/son was engaged to a Mexican person that couldn't cross the border to visit. Lots of positive talk about Mexican's being their neighbors.

    ElvenshaeMild ConfusionTofystedeth
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