Cyrus the Great was also said to be pretty damn good looking.
A lot of rulers are said to be good looking, because even if they're no longer in power it usually doesn't pay to piss off their descendents but no one is going to care if you say they were hot
Sort of a Pascal's Wager situation
No amount of positive spin would've gotten Ahkenaten or Carlos II of Spain topping the Hot 100 list of their respective eras..
No matter where you go...there you are. ~ Buckaroo Banzai
Cyrus the Great was also said to be pretty damn good looking.
A lot of rulers are said to be good looking, because even if they're no longer in power it usually doesn't pay to piss off their descendents but no one is going to care if you say they were hot
Sort of a Pascal's Wager situation
No amount of positive spin would've gotten Ahkenaten or Carlos II of Spain topping the Hot 100 list of their respective eras..
I always thought the idea of cleopatra being a seductress was pretty crazy in what it said about the attitudes of the time anyway.
Yeah some 50 year old Roman general meets a girl queen that’s barely out of her teens, desperate for help, in danger of being deposed and/or killed at any point, and on their very first meeting he starts a sexual relationship with her to eventually have a kid that would produce a claim that would ultimately (though indirectly) result in his empire absorbing her kingdom, but SHE’S the one taking advantage of HIM.
I always thought the idea of cleopatra being a seductress was pretty crazy in what it said about the attitudes of the time anyway.
Yeah some 50 year old Roman general meets a girl queen that’s barely out of her teens, desperate for help, in danger of being deposed and/or killed at any point, and on their very first meeting he starts a sexual relationship with her to eventually have a kid that would produce a claim that would ultimately (though indirectly) result in his empire absorbing her kingdom, but SHE’S the one taking advantage of HIM.
Oh yeah, what Roman historians pass down to us about Cleopatra really highlights their patriarchal mindset
I always thought the idea of cleopatra being a seductress was pretty crazy in what it said about the attitudes of the time anyway.
Yeah some 50 year old Roman general meets a girl queen that’s barely out of her teens, desperate for help, in danger of being deposed and/or killed at any point, and on their very first meeting he starts a sexual relationship with her to eventually have a kid that would produce a claim that would ultimately (though indirectly) result in his empire absorbing her kingdom, but SHE’S the one taking advantage of HIM.
Reminds me of the story of Lot and his daughters escaping Sodom. After his wife was turned to a pillar of salt, the two daughters decided to get Lot drunk totally against his will and then forced themselves on him sexually totally against his wishes and entirely of their own decision. These girls are totally the ones taking advantage of him.
Honestly variations of "pretty boy" are not that uncommon for ancient and medieval rulers
We have Harald Hårfagr (Harald Pretty hair), king of norway. Charles le Bel (the handsome/beautiful), king of France. Geoffrey le Bel, Count of Anjou. Louis le Débonnaire (charming/beautiful), king of france. Fernando o Formoso (well-shaped/handsome), king of portugal. Felipe el Hermoso (same as Fernando, but spanish), king of spain. Radu cel Frumos (also well-shaped/handsome, but in Romanian), prince of Wallachia.
The list goes on, and I haven't even included the ones where it was used ironically or with a double meaning (like Ioannes, Byzantine emperor, who was called John the Beautiful because he was both exceptionally ugly but also exceptionally good).
Although speaking of Cognomens. My favorite cognomen is probably that of Joao II of Portugal, aka Juan el Hombre (John the Man). Although for modern viewers it should probably be translated as John "The Man". Posthumously known as Joao o Principe perfeito (John the perfect prince).
Harald Hårfagre ("Pretty-haired", but usually translated to Fairhair in English) was known later in life as Fairhair. In his younger days he was known as Harald Luva (lit. "Knit Cap", but more accurately "Matted-hair") for his incredibly long and very unkempt hair.
In his youth, he was one of many petty kings of a non-united Norway. He wished to marry the beautiful and haughty Gyda, daughter of the petty king of Hordaland (inland Norway), but she refused to marry any man who was not king of all Norway; no mere petty king for her.
Harald then swore that he would become king of all Norway, and would not cut nor groom his hair until he was. Earning him the nickname "Matted-hair" in the years-long process.
Then he won, got his hair cut, married Gyda, and got the nickname Fairhair.
A woman of great power prestige and accomplisment and all we are doing is arguing over how bonkable she was.
Those first two things don't seem to be under dispute.
Sure, but it's just like.... how many times do you hear "the shrewd Cleopatra" or "the great Cleopatra" or "the accomplished Cleopatra" or whatever, vs "the beautiful Cleopatra"? Pretty sure for most people the latter outnumbers any other descriptor.
That compounds itself when you think of how few ancient female rulers we really talk about. So "beautiful" turns out to be one of the top descriptors for ancient female rulers in general. And then, when talking about male ancient historical figures, how often do you hear about "the handsome <x>"?
Something doesn't have to be false for it to still be indicative of a problem. Like many of these things, it's not a specific individual situation that makes the problem, but the combination of everything else to weave a tapestry that, as a whole, has problems.
Not often, but you do have some inverses, like "the Fat" or "the Bald".
Alcibiades comes to mind! The main things he was known for were a) being super hot, and b) being kind of a fucking chad as a result
I always thought the idea of cleopatra being a seductress was pretty crazy in what it said about the attitudes of the time anyway.
Yeah some 50 year old Roman general meets a girl queen that’s barely out of her teens, desperate for help, in danger of being deposed and/or killed at any point, and on their very first meeting he starts a sexual relationship with her to eventually have a kid that would produce a claim that would ultimately (though indirectly) result in his empire absorbing her kingdom, but SHE’S the one taking advantage of HIM.
Reminds me of the story of Lot and his daughters escaping Sodom. After his wife was turned to a pillar of salt, the two daughters decided to get Lot drunk totally against his will and then forced themselves on him sexually totally against his wishes and entirely of their own decision. These girls are totally the ones taking advantage of him.
Funny how that keeps happening.
Yeah, the same Lot that when a roving band of rapists came around and demanded he turn over his guests, he offered his teenage daughters instead.(It being Sodom, everyone was nonplussed by the offer).
His relationship with his daughters was pretty fucked up in general.
Incidentally, Harald Fairhair is my 33xgreat-grandfather, according to official genealogies.
Harald's great-great-grandson was St. Olav, patron saint and eternal king of Norway who was given credit for christening Norway in 1030 (also dying in the process about 40 minutes by car from where I live).
Olav had two children, one older daughter born in wedlock (Ulvhild) and one younger son born out of wedlock (Magnus I "the Good" King of Norway who died without issue; later kings were distant cousins).
Ulvhild was married off to the Duke of Saxony (in modern Germany, then part of the Holy Roman Empire), Ordulf Herzog von Sachsen in 1042. Their descendant some steps down the line was married into the Counts of Oldenburg (the House of Oldenburg became kings of Denmark, although not my branch). From thereon it goes down to ever more obscure branches of minor German nobility, until we get to my German great-grandfather who married my Danish great-grandmother whose Danish daughter married my Norwegian grandfather and settled with him in Oslo.
(For the Crusader Kings players: No, I do not have a claim on the throne of Norway. First, because Norway switched from Scandinavian elective to agnatic primogeniture in the 1200s. Secondly, the Fairhair dynasty was declared extinct for kingship claims in the 1300s. Thirdly, because the current constitution puts kingship only in the hands of the decedents of Håkon VII (whose grandson is the current king) of whom I am not descended but very distantly related through the Oldenburg connection (Håkon was a Danish prince prior to becoming King of Norway after a referendum in 1905).)
While we're on the topic of official genealogies, Harald Fairhair was an Yngling (that was his dynasty; the "Fairhair Dynasty" is a latter construction). The Ynglings derive their name from their ancestor, Yngve.
Yngve was a god, the father of the god of the sea Njord and grandfather of fertility gods Frøy and Frøya. In the Yngling genealogies we also find jotner (giants) such as Frøy's wife Gerd, trickster god Loki (that one), and the personifications of night (Natt, Loki's granddaughter), cold (Frost), snow (Snø) and a couple of other random jotner.
So according to official genealogies (eye roll, wanking motions) I am decedent of two kings, one saint, seven gods/godesses including four of fertility (ladies), three personifications of abstract concepts, a handful of giants frost and otherwise, and more minor and major nobility you can shake a stick at.
I always thought the idea of cleopatra being a seductress was pretty crazy in what it said about the attitudes of the time anyway.
Yeah some 50 year old Roman general meets a girl queen that’s barely out of her teens, desperate for help, in danger of being deposed and/or killed at any point, and on their very first meeting he starts a sexual relationship with her to eventually have a kid that would produce a claim that would ultimately (though indirectly) result in his empire absorbing her kingdom, but SHE’S the one taking advantage of HIM.
Reminds me of the story of Lot and his daughters escaping Sodom. After his wife was turned to a pillar of salt, the two daughters decided to get Lot drunk totally against his will and then forced themselves on him sexually totally against his wishes and entirely of their own decision. These girls are totally the ones taking advantage of him.
Funny how that keeps happening.
Yeah, the same Lot that when a roving band of rapists came around and demanded he turn over his guests, he offered his teenage daughters instead.(It being Sodom, everyone was nonplussed by the offer).
His relationship with his daughters was pretty fucked up in general.
The vision of Bronze Age culture that we get from the early parts of the Bible makes me very grateful for civilization. Basically a libertarian might-makes-right situation.
Speaking of mothers: Gunnhild Kongemor ("Mother of Kings") was the wife of Harald Fairhair's son Eirik I (King of Norway 930–934, King of Orkney 937–954, King of York 948–949 and 952–954).
According to the sagas, Gunnhild had her husband's half-brother Halfdan Svarte ("the Black", not to be confused with his grandfather Halfdan Svarte) killed by poisoning him, paving the way for her husband to become king. Gunnhild then egged Eric to go to war with his remaining brothers, ending with four of them killed and Eirik becoming known as Blodøks ("Bloodaxe").
Unusprisingly Eirik Blodøks wasn't very popular and the couple fled to Orkney (now part of Scotland, then part of Norway) and then York (now in England, then ruled by various vikings); a non-murdered brother became king. The York thing went badly, and Eirik and Gunnhild fled back to Orkney where Eric died.
Gunnhild then went to then-capital of Denmark and now host of a music festival/bacchanalia Roskilde with her children by Eirik. Harald Blåtann ("Bluetooth"; patron saint of wireless computer peripherals) was very welcoming. From Roskilde, Gunnilds sons (with Danish support; Danes were always happy to meddle in Norwegian affairs) went to war with their cousins in Norway. Many of Gunnhild's sons became, for a time, kings, before being ousted and killed; Gunnhild would then send a new son to claim the kingship. (This is when she got the nickname.)
Gunnhild later had a falling-out with Harald Blåtann who killed her son Harald Gråfell ("Greyhide"). Gunnhild went back to Orkney with her last two sons who continued to unsuccessfully harry Norway for some years. From there, they pass out of history; none of Eirik's grandchildren would become king.
…or maybe all this was made up by Gunnhild's Icelandic enemies who wrote the sagas.
Incidentally, Harald Fairhair is my 33xgreat-grandfather, according to official genealogies.
Harald's great-great-grandson was St. Olav, patron saint and eternal king of Norway who was given credit for christening Norway in 1030 (also dying in the process about 40 minutes by car from where I live).
Olav had two children, one older daughter born in wedlock (Ulvhild) and one younger son born out of wedlock (Magnus I "the Good" King of Norway who died without issue; later kings were distant cousins).
Ulvhild was married off to the Duke of Saxony (in modern Germany, then part of the Holy Roman Empire), Ordulf Herzog von Sachsen in 1042. Their descendant some steps down the line was married into the Counts of Oldenburg (the House of Oldenburg became kings of Denmark, although not my branch). From thereon it goes down to ever more obscure branches of minor German nobility, until we get to my German great-grandfather who married my Danish great-grandmother whose Danish daughter married my Norwegian grandfather and settled with him in Oslo.
(For the Crusader Kings players: No, I do not have a claim on the throne of Norway. First, because Norway switched from Scandinavian elective to agnatic primogeniture in the 1200s. Secondly, the Fairhair dynasty was declared extinct for kingship claims in the 1300s. Thirdly, because the current constitution puts kingship only in the hands of the decedents of Håkon VII (whose grandson is the current king) of whom I am not descended but very distantly related through the Oldenburg connection (Håkon was a Danish prince prior to becoming King of Norway after a referendum in 1905).)
While we're on the topic of official genealogies, Harald Fairhair was an Yngling (that was his dynasty; the "Fairhair Dynasty" is a latter construction). The Ynglings derive their name from their ancestor, Yngve.
Yngve was a god, the father of the god of the sea Njord and grandfather of fertility gods Frøy and Frøya. In the Yngling genealogies we also find jotner (giants) such as Frøy's wife Gerd, trickster god Loki (that one), and the personifications of night (Natt, Loki's granddaughter), cold (Frost), snow (Snø) and a couple of other random jotner.
So according to official genealogies (eye roll, wanking motions) I am decedent of two kings, one saint, seven gods/godesses including four of fertility (ladies), three personifications of abstract concepts, a handful of giants frost and otherwise, and more minor and major nobility you can shake a stick at.
I always thought the idea of cleopatra being a seductress was pretty crazy in what it said about the attitudes of the time anyway.
Yeah some 50 year old Roman general meets a girl queen that’s barely out of her teens, desperate for help, in danger of being deposed and/or killed at any point, and on their very first meeting he starts a sexual relationship with her to eventually have a kid that would produce a claim that would ultimately (though indirectly) result in his empire absorbing her kingdom, but SHE’S the one taking advantage of HIM.
Reminds me of the story of Lot and his daughters escaping Sodom. After his wife was turned to a pillar of salt, the two daughters decided to get Lot drunk totally against his will and then forced themselves on him sexually totally against his wishes and entirely of their own decision. These girls are totally the ones taking advantage of him.
Funny how that keeps happening.
Yeah, the same Lot that when a roving band of rapists came around and demanded he turn over his guests, he offered his teenage daughters instead.(It being Sodom, everyone was nonplussed by the offer).
His relationship with his daughters was pretty fucked up in general.
Incidentally, Harald Fairhair is my 33xgreat-grandfather, according to official genealogies.
Harald's great-great-grandson was St. Olav, patron saint and eternal king of Norway who was given credit for christening Norway in 1030 (also dying in the process about 40 minutes by car from where I live).
Olav had two children, one older daughter born in wedlock (Ulvhild) and one younger son born out of wedlock (Magnus I "the Good" King of Norway who died without issue; later kings were distant cousins).
Ulvhild was married off to the Duke of Saxony (in modern Germany, then part of the Holy Roman Empire), Ordulf Herzog von Sachsen in 1042. Their descendant some steps down the line was married into the Counts of Oldenburg (the House of Oldenburg became kings of Denmark, although not my branch). From thereon it goes down to ever more obscure branches of minor German nobility, until we get to my German great-grandfather who married my Danish great-grandmother whose Danish daughter married my Norwegian grandfather and settled with him in Oslo.
(For the Crusader Kings players: No, I do not have a claim on the throne of Norway. First, because Norway switched from Scandinavian elective to agnatic primogeniture in the 1200s. Secondly, the Fairhair dynasty was declared extinct for kingship claims in the 1300s. Thirdly, because the current constitution puts kingship only in the hands of the decedents of Håkon VII (whose grandson is the current king) of whom I am not descended but very distantly related through the Oldenburg connection (Håkon was a Danish prince prior to becoming King of Norway after a referendum in 1905).)
While we're on the topic of official genealogies, Harald Fairhair was an Yngling (that was his dynasty; the "Fairhair Dynasty" is a latter construction). The Ynglings derive their name from their ancestor, Yngve.
Yngve was a god, the father of the god of the sea Njord and grandfather of fertility gods Frøy and Frøya. In the Yngling genealogies we also find jotner (giants) such as Frøy's wife Gerd, trickster god Loki (that one), and the personifications of night (Natt, Loki's granddaughter), cold (Frost), snow (Snø) and a couple of other random jotner.
So according to official genealogies (eye roll, wanking motions) I am decedent of two kings, one saint, seven gods/godesses including four of fertility (ladies), three personifications of abstract concepts, a handful of giants frost and otherwise, and more minor and major nobility you can shake a stick at.
Are we cousins?
Me too, apparently.
I just need a MASSIVE King Ralph situation, and I get to be royalty!
I mean, we're talking at least a high six figure casualty rate, probably seven, maybe eight or nine.
Incidentally, Harald Fairhair is my 33xgreat-grandfather, according to official genealogies.
Harald's great-great-grandson was St. Olav, patron saint and eternal king of Norway who was given credit for christening Norway in 1030 (also dying in the process about 40 minutes by car from where I live).
Olav had two children, one older daughter born in wedlock (Ulvhild) and one younger son born out of wedlock (Magnus I "the Good" King of Norway who died without issue; later kings were distant cousins).
Ulvhild was married off to the Duke of Saxony (in modern Germany, then part of the Holy Roman Empire), Ordulf Herzog von Sachsen in 1042. Their descendant some steps down the line was married into the Counts of Oldenburg (the House of Oldenburg became kings of Denmark, although not my branch). From thereon it goes down to ever more obscure branches of minor German nobility, until we get to my German great-grandfather who married my Danish great-grandmother whose Danish daughter married my Norwegian grandfather and settled with him in Oslo.
(For the Crusader Kings players: No, I do not have a claim on the throne of Norway. First, because Norway switched from Scandinavian elective to agnatic primogeniture in the 1200s. Secondly, the Fairhair dynasty was declared extinct for kingship claims in the 1300s. Thirdly, because the current constitution puts kingship only in the hands of the decedents of Håkon VII (whose grandson is the current king) of whom I am not descended but very distantly related through the Oldenburg connection (Håkon was a Danish prince prior to becoming King of Norway after a referendum in 1905).)
While we're on the topic of official genealogies, Harald Fairhair was an Yngling (that was his dynasty; the "Fairhair Dynasty" is a latter construction). The Ynglings derive their name from their ancestor, Yngve.
Yngve was a god, the father of the god of the sea Njord and grandfather of fertility gods Frøy and Frøya. In the Yngling genealogies we also find jotner (giants) such as Frøy's wife Gerd, trickster god Loki (that one), and the personifications of night (Natt, Loki's granddaughter), cold (Frost), snow (Snø) and a couple of other random jotner.
So according to official genealogies (eye roll, wanking motions) I am decedent of two kings, one saint, seven gods/godesses including four of fertility (ladies), three personifications of abstract concepts, a handful of giants frost and otherwise, and more minor and major nobility you can shake a stick at.
Are we cousins?
What, for reals? My grandparents are/were Finn and Kirsten, and the royal/divine descent is through Kirsten's father Erik Wolfhagen's mother's mother, incidentally descended from the younger brother of one of the founding fathers of modern Norway, Count Wedel-Jarlsberg.
Speaking of gods, the Norse believed in three lineages of gods: The Æsir (Odin, Thor, Brage…), the Vanir (Njord, Frøy, Frøya…) and the jotner (giants; Loki, Skade, Mime…)
The Æsir and the jotner were ancient and implacable enemies; Odin and his two brothers almost exterminated their race when they killed Yme the primordial jotne and made the Earth from his body (the jotner drowned in the cataclysm, except for two who went on to repopulate their kind).
Or were they implacable enemies? The jotne Loki is Odin's blood brother (i.e., Thor's uncle-by-adoption), and the jotne Mime('s body-less head) is Odin's chief advisor. And yet Thor's main hobby is killing jotner, and the final battle between gods and giants is Ragnarok…
The Æsir and Vanir definitely had a war, though, that neither could win. In the end they had a peace treaty and hostage exchange. Njord, Frøy and Frøya went to the Æsir, while Hønir and Mime (including body) went to the Vanir. Hønir and Mime were killed though in Vanaheim. No one gave a shit about Hønir who apparently was sent to the Vanir because everyone was sick of him, but to prevent war from re-igniting (and being first against the wall) Frøya taught Odin the art of galdring (magic) and re-animated the head of Mime who returned to Valhall as Odin's advisor. The peace held (and later Thor married Siv of the Vanir).
Njord later got re-married to the jotne Skade (goddess of skiing and the wilds). The gods had killed her (jotun) father Tjatse, and she demanded weregild (compensation): to marry a god. (How could she demand this? The jotner were the mortal enemies of the gods…) She was a rather comely lass, so they couldn't decide who would get the privilege. (There it is.) So they held a competition, a beauty pageant with a twist: she would marry the bachelor god with the most handsome legs (and was not allowed to look at any other part of the body). And Njord won (even over pretty-boy Balder).
(Skade also stipulated that the gods must make her laugh, which Loki did by tying a goat to his testicles and having it pull him around.)
Anyways, sadly Skade's marriage to Njord was not happy; she couldn't sleep at his place due to the screaming of the sea gulls, and he couldn't sleep at the her place to the the howling of the wolves.
Final note: Scandinavia might be named after Skade, or the other way around.
Final, final note: In the last days of paganism, the three chief gods were Odin (graven image recognized by his one eye), Thor (graven image recognized by his hammer or a T rune), and Frøy (graven image recognized by his enormous erect penis).
Note that the three lineages (sky gods, cthonic gods and primordial gods) repeats in a lot of indoeuropean mythologies. For example in the greek mythologies you have the Zeus, Hera etc representing sky gods, you have Hades, Demeter and Hecate representing the cthonic gods of the underworld and you have titans like Cronus, Oceanus, and Tethys representing the primordial gods.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Incidentally, Harald Fairhair is my 33xgreat-grandfather, according to official genealogies.
Harald's great-great-grandson was St. Olav, patron saint and eternal king of Norway who was given credit for christening Norway in 1030 (also dying in the process about 40 minutes by car from where I live).
Olav had two children, one older daughter born in wedlock (Ulvhild) and one younger son born out of wedlock (Magnus I "the Good" King of Norway who died without issue; later kings were distant cousins).
Ulvhild was married off to the Duke of Saxony (in modern Germany, then part of the Holy Roman Empire), Ordulf Herzog von Sachsen in 1042. Their descendant some steps down the line was married into the Counts of Oldenburg (the House of Oldenburg became kings of Denmark, although not my branch). From thereon it goes down to ever more obscure branches of minor German nobility, until we get to my German great-grandfather who married my Danish great-grandmother whose Danish daughter married my Norwegian grandfather and settled with him in Oslo.
Hey, do you ...
(For the Crusader Kings players: No, I do not have a claim on the throne of Norway.
Incidentally, Harald Fairhair is my 33xgreat-grandfather, according to official genealogies.
Harald's great-great-grandson was St. Olav, patron saint and eternal king of Norway who was given credit for christening Norway in 1030 (also dying in the process about 40 minutes by car from where I live).
Olav had two children, one older daughter born in wedlock (Ulvhild) and one younger son born out of wedlock (Magnus I "the Good" King of Norway who died without issue; later kings were distant cousins).
Ulvhild was married off to the Duke of Saxony (in modern Germany, then part of the Holy Roman Empire), Ordulf Herzog von Sachsen in 1042. Their descendant some steps down the line was married into the Counts of Oldenburg (the House of Oldenburg became kings of Denmark, although not my branch). From thereon it goes down to ever more obscure branches of minor German nobility, until we get to my German great-grandfather who married my Danish great-grandmother whose Danish daughter married my Norwegian grandfather and settled with him in Oslo.
(For the Crusader Kings players: No, I do not have a claim on the throne of Norway. First, because Norway switched from Scandinavian elective to agnatic primogeniture in the 1200s. Secondly, the Fairhair dynasty was declared extinct for kingship claims in the 1300s. Thirdly, because the current constitution puts kingship only in the hands of the decedents of Håkon VII (whose grandson is the current king) of whom I am not descended but very distantly related through the Oldenburg connection (Håkon was a Danish prince prior to becoming King of Norway after a referendum in 1905).)
While we're on the topic of official genealogies, Harald Fairhair was an Yngling (that was his dynasty; the "Fairhair Dynasty" is a latter construction). The Ynglings derive their name from their ancestor, Yngve.
Yngve was a god, the father of the god of the sea Njord and grandfather of fertility gods Frøy and Frøya. In the Yngling genealogies we also find jotner (giants) such as Frøy's wife Gerd, trickster god Loki (that one), and the personifications of night (Natt, Loki's granddaughter), cold (Frost), snow (Snø) and a couple of other random jotner.
So according to official genealogies (eye roll, wanking motions) I am decedent of two kings, one saint, seven gods/godesses including four of fertility (ladies), three personifications of abstract concepts, a handful of giants frost and otherwise, and more minor and major nobility you can shake a stick at.
Are we cousins?
Me too, apparently.
I just need a MASSIVE King Ralph situation, and I get to be royalty!
I mean, we're talking at least a high six figure casualty rate, probably seven, maybe eight or nine.
But...
Gimme my crown, dammit!
If we want to go all Crusader Kings on this: Marry the Crown Prince's daughter and presumptive future regnant queen (or her younger brother), have a kid with your royal spouse, arrange for two or three "accidents", and have yourself declared regent for your kid.
Sic transit gloria mundi.
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MonwynApathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime.A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered Userregular
Incidentally, Harald Fairhair is my 33xgreat-grandfather, according to official genealogies.
Harald's great-great-grandson was St. Olav, patron saint and eternal king of Norway who was given credit for christening Norway in 1030 (also dying in the process about 40 minutes by car from where I live).
Olav had two children, one older daughter born in wedlock (Ulvhild) and one younger son born out of wedlock (Magnus I "the Good" King of Norway who died without issue; later kings were distant cousins).
Ulvhild was married off to the Duke of Saxony (in modern Germany, then part of the Holy Roman Empire), Ordulf Herzog von Sachsen in 1042. Their descendant some steps down the line was married into the Counts of Oldenburg (the House of Oldenburg became kings of Denmark, although not my branch). From thereon it goes down to ever more obscure branches of minor German nobility, until we get to my German great-grandfather who married my Danish great-grandmother whose Danish daughter married my Norwegian grandfather and settled with him in Oslo.
(For the Crusader Kings players: No, I do not have a claim on the throne of Norway. First, because Norway switched from Scandinavian elective to agnatic primogeniture in the 1200s. Secondly, the Fairhair dynasty was declared extinct for kingship claims in the 1300s. Thirdly, because the current constitution puts kingship only in the hands of the decedents of Håkon VII (whose grandson is the current king) of whom I am not descended but very distantly related through the Oldenburg connection (Håkon was a Danish prince prior to becoming King of Norway after a referendum in 1905).)
While we're on the topic of official genealogies, Harald Fairhair was an Yngling (that was his dynasty; the "Fairhair Dynasty" is a latter construction). The Ynglings derive their name from their ancestor, Yngve.
Yngve was a god, the father of the god of the sea Njord and grandfather of fertility gods Frøy and Frøya. In the Yngling genealogies we also find jotner (giants) such as Frøy's wife Gerd, trickster god Loki (that one), and the personifications of night (Natt, Loki's granddaughter), cold (Frost), snow (Snø) and a couple of other random jotner.
So according to official genealogies (eye roll, wanking motions) I am decedent of two kings, one saint, seven gods/godesses including four of fertility (ladies), three personifications of abstract concepts, a handful of giants frost and otherwise, and more minor and major nobility you can shake a stick at.
Are we cousins?
Me too, apparently.
I just need a MASSIVE King Ralph situation, and I get to be royalty!
I mean, we're talking at least a high six figure casualty rate, probably seven, maybe eight or nine.
But...
Gimme my crown, dammit!
If we want to go all Crusader Kings on this: Marry the Crown Prince's daughter and presumptive future regnant queen (or her younger brother), have a kid with your royal spouse, arrange for two or three "accidents", and have yourself declared regent for your kid.
Yeah my first reaction was "nonsense, even someone disinherited can wage a claim war as long as they have a big enough faction behind them," but you have to press the claim every three generations to keep passing it down so that timer has probably expired. Gonna need to marry in, but being of a dynasty as prestigious as Yngling will definitely help your acceptance chances!
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BlackDragon480Bluster KerfuffleMaster of Windy ImportRegistered Userregular
Incidentally, Harald Fairhair is my 33xgreat-grandfather, according to official genealogies.
Harald's great-great-grandson was St. Olav, patron saint and eternal king of Norway who was given credit for christening Norway in 1030 (also dying in the process about 40 minutes by car from where I live).
Olav had two children, one older daughter born in wedlock (Ulvhild) and one younger son born out of wedlock (Magnus I "the Good" King of Norway who died without issue; later kings were distant cousins).
Ulvhild was married off to the Duke of Saxony (in modern Germany, then part of the Holy Roman Empire), Ordulf Herzog von Sachsen in 1042. Their descendant some steps down the line was married into the Counts of Oldenburg (the House of Oldenburg became kings of Denmark, although not my branch). From thereon it goes down to ever more obscure branches of minor German nobility, until we get to my German great-grandfather who married my Danish great-grandmother whose Danish daughter married my Norwegian grandfather and settled with him in Oslo.
(For the Crusader Kings players: No, I do not have a claim on the throne of Norway. First, because Norway switched from Scandinavian elective to agnatic primogeniture in the 1200s. Secondly, the Fairhair dynasty was declared extinct for kingship claims in the 1300s. Thirdly, because the current constitution puts kingship only in the hands of the decedents of Håkon VII (whose grandson is the current king) of whom I am not descended but very distantly related through the Oldenburg connection (Håkon was a Danish prince prior to becoming King of Norway after a referendum in 1905).)
While we're on the topic of official genealogies, Harald Fairhair was an Yngling (that was his dynasty; the "Fairhair Dynasty" is a latter construction). The Ynglings derive their name from their ancestor, Yngve.
Yngve was a god, the father of the god of the sea Njord and grandfather of fertility gods Frøy and Frøya. In the Yngling genealogies we also find jotner (giants) such as Frøy's wife Gerd, trickster god Loki (that one), and the personifications of night (Natt, Loki's granddaughter), cold (Frost), snow (Snø) and a couple of other random jotner.
So according to official genealogies (eye roll, wanking motions) I am decedent of two kings, one saint, seven gods/godesses including four of fertility (ladies), three personifications of abstract concepts, a handful of giants frost and otherwise, and more minor and major nobility you can shake a stick at.
Are we cousins?
Me too, apparently.
I just need a MASSIVE King Ralph situation, and I get to be royalty!
I mean, we're talking at least a high six figure casualty rate, probably seven, maybe eight or nine.
But...
Gimme my crown, dammit!
If we want to go all Crusader Kings on this: Marry the Crown Prince's daughter and presumptive future regnant queen (or her younger brother), have a kid with your royal spouse, arrange for two or three "accidents", and have yourself declared regent for your kid.
In true CK fashion, I'm looking to kill my human wife, fuck a wild centaur, and then marry a rosebush.
No matter where you go...there you are. ~ Buckaroo Banzai
Note that the three lineages (sky gods, cthonic gods and primordial gods) repeats in a lot of indoeuropean mythologies. For example in the greek mythologies you have the Zeus, Hera etc representing sky gods, you have Hades, Demeter and Hecate representing the cthonic gods of the underworld and you have titans like Cronus, Oceanus, and Tethys representing the primordial gods.
The jotner are definitely primordial, but the Vanir and Æsir don't seem to fit into the sky/cthonic divide. (And goddess of/personification of the underworld and recipient of souls of those who died with their boots off Hel is a jotun, daughter of Loki). Vanir seem to be predominantly fertility gods, compared to the largely war-like Æsir.
Later historians (including several Christian medieval ones) have speculated the Æsir/Vanir divide (and their war) as a garbled recollection of the meeting and merging of two human tribes but the pagan Norse certainly believed in them as gods.
Note that the three lineages (sky gods, cthonic gods and primordial gods) repeats in a lot of indoeuropean mythologies. For example in the greek mythologies you have the Zeus, Hera etc representing sky gods, you have Hades, Demeter and Hecate representing the cthonic gods of the underworld and you have titans like Cronus, Oceanus, and Tethys representing the primordial gods.
The jotner are definitely primordial, but the Vanir and Æsir don't seem to fit into the sky/cthonic divide. (And goddess of/personification of the underworld and recipient of souls of those who died with their boots off Hel is a jotun, daughter of Loki). Vanir seem to be predominantly fertility gods, compared to the largely war-like Æsir.
Later historians (including several Christian medieval ones) have speculated the Æsir/Vanir divide (and their war) as a garbled recollection of the meeting and merging of two human tribes but the pagan Norse certainly believed in them as gods.
The funny thing is that there are a ton of parallels to the Norse set up in Hinduism of all places, especially the older Hindu mythology. Slavic and Baltic too but those are expected and we know less about slavic and baltic as a whole than Hindu or Norse IIRC.
Note that the three lineages (sky gods, cthonic gods and primordial gods) repeats in a lot of indoeuropean mythologies. For example in the greek mythologies you have the Zeus, Hera etc representing sky gods, you have Hades, Demeter and Hecate representing the cthonic gods of the underworld and you have titans like Cronus, Oceanus, and Tethys representing the primordial gods.
The jotner are definitely primordial, but the Vanir and Æsir don't seem to fit into the sky/cthonic divide. (And goddess of/personification of the underworld and recipient of souls of those who died with their boots off Hel is a jotun, daughter of Loki). Vanir seem to be predominantly fertility gods, compared to the largely war-like Æsir.
Later historians (including several Christian medieval ones) have speculated the Æsir/Vanir divide (and their war) as a garbled recollection of the meeting and merging of two human tribes but the pagan Norse certainly believed in them as gods.
Cthonic gods are a bit more multifaceted than being pure death/afterlife gods. They have a wider portfolio of death, rebirth, fertility, harvest etc. A goddess like Freya falls pretty neatly into the Cthonic portfolio (Compare Freya and Demeter for example).
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Ea-Nāşir is the recipient of the world’s oldest complaint letter. He’s the 'worst businessman of the 18th century,' a 'mediocre' conman whose actions should have him 'put out of business'. Is this fair?
Here’s a thread on the most up-to-date research on this captivating figure.
It's a pretty lengthy thread - here's an unrolled version that should be readable without being logged into Twitter.
A 14th-century bureaucratic document requesting time off work for a civil servant has been identified as the only surviving handwriting of Geoffrey Chaucer, revered as the father of English literature.
While it was known that the individual seeking a leave of absence was the author of The Canterbury Tales – during his 12-year employment as controller of the London Wool Quay – the application was assumed to have been made on his behalf by a clerk.
Now a leading scholar argues that it was actually written by Chaucer and submitted by him for King Richard II’s approval.
Prof Richard Green, a Canadian academic, said: “This would be the only known example of his hand.”
You had to get PTO approved by the king? That's kind of wild.
His position as controller, the supervisor of the royal tax collectors at the port, was an appointment directly from the king, so yeah, that was officially his boss.
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
You had to get PTO approved by the king? That's kind of wild.
Up until 1989, professors in Norway had to be hired by the King, personally.* (And could only be fired by the King, personally.) PTO was granted (or not) by the university leadership, though. The head of a research project I'm part of is old enough to have his (framed) hiring papers signed by then-king Olav V ("the people's king") and then-PM Gro Harlem Brundtland ("mother of the country").
This is still true for some positions, but now it's limited to the highest members of the bureaucracy, judges, and the like.
* Technically, Kongen i statsråd ("the King-in-Council"), the weekly meeting (every Friday at 11 am) of the King and all the ministers. There, decisions that constitutionally can only be made by a joint session of the ministers (separate from decisions that can be made by individual minsters or their subordinates) are made. The King (or, if he's indisposed (he's quite elderly), the Crown Prince) presides, but under modern law he's just there to sign the documents.
A 14th-century bureaucratic document requesting time off work for a civil servant has been identified as the only surviving handwriting of Geoffrey Chaucer, revered as the father of English literature.
While it was known that the individual seeking a leave of absence was the author of The Canterbury Tales – during his 12-year employment as controller of the London Wool Quay – the application was assumed to have been made on his behalf by a clerk.
Now a leading scholar argues that it was actually written by Chaucer and submitted by him for King Richard II’s approval.
Prof Richard Green, a Canadian academic, said: “This would be the only known example of his hand.”
I ran across a similarly old yet recently found thing at work this week. From the wiki
Lady Hester Pulter (née Ley) (1605–1678) was a seventeenth-century poet and writer, whose manuscript was rediscovered in 1996 in the Brotherton Library, University of Leeds. Her major works include "Poems Breathed Forth By the Noble Hadassas", "The Sighes of a Sad Soule Emblematically Breath'd Forth by the Noble Hadassas", and "The Unfortunate Florinda."
Not quite as bad as PTO request making the trek through time, but still wild. ~350 years hiding in the stacks.
Zavianuniversal peace sounds better than forever warRegistered Userregular
just watched this video on Antony's Parthian invasion, which always seems to get skipped and not even mentioned whenever they do a movie/tv series with Antony: (video starts at 1:27 after ads) https://youtu.be/CzNHnb-9wu0?t=87
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
You’d think after what the Parthians did to Crassus that Rome would learn to just leave well enough alone.
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
You’d think after what the Parthians did to Crassus that Rome would learn to just leave well enough alone.
Augustus learned. He was the one who largely pivoted from constant expansion, even if a few later emperors defied this.
well, after he first conquered the rest of Spain and Dalmatia (though that was more of a rebellion), and he was trying to conquer Germania until that went sideways
Roman empire: Aka "Who has time to fight wars of conquest when everyone is conspiring against you"
With the exception of Antoninus Pius pretty every emperor for the first 3 centuries was busy with wars, and if they weren't expanding (like Trajan, Hadrian and Septimus Severus) they were busy fighting revolts or trying to solidify their shaky hold on power.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
You’d think after what the Parthians did to Crassus that Rome would learn to just leave well enough alone.
Augustus learned. He was the one who largely pivoted from constant expansion, even if a few later emperors defied this.
well, after he first conquered the rest of Spain and Dalmatia (though that was more of a rebellion), and he was trying to conquer Germania until that went sideways
More importantly, Rome needed constant expansion. Their entire economy was based on incorporating new treasure, resources and (especially, for a mostly agrarian society) arable land. Their internal economic growth wasn't nearly enough to sustain their society. Once they couldn't expand anymore because they couldn't conquer the surrounding civilizations for various reasons, they were forced to debase their currency and inflation went through the roof, and the economy unravelled.
Thank goodness we learned from our mistakes and don't have an economy that relies on an impossible target of limitless growth.
Posts
No amount of positive spin would've gotten Ahkenaten or Carlos II of Spain topping the Hot 100 list of their respective eras..
~ Buckaroo Banzai
The painters still tried for Carlos.
Yeah some 50 year old Roman general meets a girl queen that’s barely out of her teens, desperate for help, in danger of being deposed and/or killed at any point, and on their very first meeting he starts a sexual relationship with her to eventually have a kid that would produce a claim that would ultimately (though indirectly) result in his empire absorbing her kingdom, but SHE’S the one taking advantage of HIM.
Oh yeah, what Roman historians pass down to us about Cleopatra really highlights their patriarchal mindset
Reminds me of the story of Lot and his daughters escaping Sodom. After his wife was turned to a pillar of salt, the two daughters decided to get Lot drunk totally against his will and then forced themselves on him sexually totally against his wishes and entirely of their own decision. These girls are totally the ones taking advantage of him.
Funny how that keeps happening.
Harald Hårfagre ("Pretty-haired", but usually translated to Fairhair in English) was known later in life as Fairhair. In his younger days he was known as Harald Luva (lit. "Knit Cap", but more accurately "Matted-hair") for his incredibly long and very unkempt hair.
In his youth, he was one of many petty kings of a non-united Norway. He wished to marry the beautiful and haughty Gyda, daughter of the petty king of Hordaland (inland Norway), but she refused to marry any man who was not king of all Norway; no mere petty king for her.
Harald then swore that he would become king of all Norway, and would not cut nor groom his hair until he was. Earning him the nickname "Matted-hair" in the years-long process.
Then he won, got his hair cut, married Gyda, and got the nickname Fairhair.
I can't watch this. Why is there an "si" in Alcibiades in english? " AL-sib-EYE-ə-deez" ? What? He was greek. With a kappa! Ἀλκιβιάδης!
Yeah, the same Lot that when a roving band of rapists came around and demanded he turn over his guests, he offered his teenage daughters instead.(It being Sodom, everyone was nonplussed by the offer).
His relationship with his daughters was pretty fucked up in general.
Harald's great-great-grandson was St. Olav, patron saint and eternal king of Norway who was given credit for christening Norway in 1030 (also dying in the process about 40 minutes by car from where I live).
Olav had two children, one older daughter born in wedlock (Ulvhild) and one younger son born out of wedlock (Magnus I "the Good" King of Norway who died without issue; later kings were distant cousins).
Ulvhild was married off to the Duke of Saxony (in modern Germany, then part of the Holy Roman Empire), Ordulf Herzog von Sachsen in 1042. Their descendant some steps down the line was married into the Counts of Oldenburg (the House of Oldenburg became kings of Denmark, although not my branch). From thereon it goes down to ever more obscure branches of minor German nobility, until we get to my German great-grandfather who married my Danish great-grandmother whose Danish daughter married my Norwegian grandfather and settled with him in Oslo.
(For the Crusader Kings players: No, I do not have a claim on the throne of Norway. First, because Norway switched from Scandinavian elective to agnatic primogeniture in the 1200s. Secondly, the Fairhair dynasty was declared extinct for kingship claims in the 1300s. Thirdly, because the current constitution puts kingship only in the hands of the decedents of Håkon VII (whose grandson is the current king) of whom I am not descended but very distantly related through the Oldenburg connection (Håkon was a Danish prince prior to becoming King of Norway after a referendum in 1905).)
While we're on the topic of official genealogies, Harald Fairhair was an Yngling (that was his dynasty; the "Fairhair Dynasty" is a latter construction). The Ynglings derive their name from their ancestor, Yngve.
Yngve was a god, the father of the god of the sea Njord and grandfather of fertility gods Frøy and Frøya. In the Yngling genealogies we also find jotner (giants) such as Frøy's wife Gerd, trickster god Loki (that one), and the personifications of night (Natt, Loki's granddaughter), cold (Frost), snow (Snø) and a couple of other random jotner.
So according to official genealogies (eye roll, wanking motions) I am decedent of two kings, one saint, seven gods/godesses including four of fertility (ladies), three personifications of abstract concepts, a handful of giants frost and otherwise, and more minor and major nobility you can shake a stick at.
The vision of Bronze Age culture that we get from the early parts of the Bible makes me very grateful for civilization. Basically a libertarian might-makes-right situation.
They're all on my paternal grandmother's side, so that removes a bit of the wind in her sails.
According to the sagas, Gunnhild had her husband's half-brother Halfdan Svarte ("the Black", not to be confused with his grandfather Halfdan Svarte) killed by poisoning him, paving the way for her husband to become king. Gunnhild then egged Eric to go to war with his remaining brothers, ending with four of them killed and Eirik becoming known as Blodøks ("Bloodaxe").
Unusprisingly Eirik Blodøks wasn't very popular and the couple fled to Orkney (now part of Scotland, then part of Norway) and then York (now in England, then ruled by various vikings); a non-murdered brother became king. The York thing went badly, and Eirik and Gunnhild fled back to Orkney where Eric died.
Gunnhild then went to then-capital of Denmark and now host of a music festival/bacchanalia Roskilde with her children by Eirik. Harald Blåtann ("Bluetooth"; patron saint of wireless computer peripherals) was very welcoming. From Roskilde, Gunnilds sons (with Danish support; Danes were always happy to meddle in Norwegian affairs) went to war with their cousins in Norway. Many of Gunnhild's sons became, for a time, kings, before being ousted and killed; Gunnhild would then send a new son to claim the kingship. (This is when she got the nickname.)
Gunnhild later had a falling-out with Harald Blåtann who killed her son Harald Gråfell ("Greyhide"). Gunnhild went back to Orkney with her last two sons who continued to unsuccessfully harry Norway for some years. From there, they pass out of history; none of Eirik's grandchildren would become king.
…or maybe all this was made up by Gunnhild's Icelandic enemies who wrote the sagas.
Are we cousins?
He does sound like a lot, yes.
Me too, apparently.
I just need a MASSIVE King Ralph situation, and I get to be royalty!
I mean, we're talking at least a high six figure casualty rate, probably seven, maybe eight or nine.
But...
Gimme my crown, dammit!
What, for reals? My grandparents are/were Finn and Kirsten, and the royal/divine descent is through Kirsten's father Erik Wolfhagen's mother's mother, incidentally descended from the younger brother of one of the founding fathers of modern Norway, Count Wedel-Jarlsberg.
The Æsir and the jotner were ancient and implacable enemies; Odin and his two brothers almost exterminated their race when they killed Yme the primordial jotne and made the Earth from his body (the jotner drowned in the cataclysm, except for two who went on to repopulate their kind).
Or were they implacable enemies? The jotne Loki is Odin's blood brother (i.e., Thor's uncle-by-adoption), and the jotne Mime('s body-less head) is Odin's chief advisor. And yet Thor's main hobby is killing jotner, and the final battle between gods and giants is Ragnarok…
The Æsir and Vanir definitely had a war, though, that neither could win. In the end they had a peace treaty and hostage exchange. Njord, Frøy and Frøya went to the Æsir, while Hønir and Mime (including body) went to the Vanir. Hønir and Mime were killed though in Vanaheim. No one gave a shit about Hønir who apparently was sent to the Vanir because everyone was sick of him, but to prevent war from re-igniting (and being first against the wall) Frøya taught Odin the art of galdring (magic) and re-animated the head of Mime who returned to Valhall as Odin's advisor. The peace held (and later Thor married Siv of the Vanir).
Njord later got re-married to the jotne Skade (goddess of skiing and the wilds). The gods had killed her (jotun) father Tjatse, and she demanded weregild (compensation): to marry a god. (How could she demand this? The jotner were the mortal enemies of the gods…) She was a rather comely lass, so they couldn't decide who would get the privilege. (There it is.) So they held a competition, a beauty pageant with a twist: she would marry the bachelor god with the most handsome legs (and was not allowed to look at any other part of the body). And Njord won (even over pretty-boy Balder).
(Skade also stipulated that the gods must make her laugh, which Loki did by tying a goat to his testicles and having it pull him around.)
Anyways, sadly Skade's marriage to Njord was not happy; she couldn't sleep at his place due to the screaming of the sea gulls, and he couldn't sleep at the her place to the the howling of the wolves.
Final note: Scandinavia might be named after Skade, or the other way around.
Final, final note: In the last days of paganism, the three chief gods were Odin (graven image recognized by his one eye), Thor (graven image recognized by his hammer or a T rune), and Frøy (graven image recognized by his enormous erect penis).
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Hey, do you ...
... dammit.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
If we want to go all Crusader Kings on this: Marry the Crown Prince's daughter and presumptive future regnant queen (or her younger brother), have a kid with your royal spouse, arrange for two or three "accidents", and have yourself declared regent for your kid.
Yeah my first reaction was "nonsense, even someone disinherited can wage a claim war as long as they have a big enough faction behind them," but you have to press the claim every three generations to keep passing it down so that timer has probably expired. Gonna need to marry in, but being of a dynasty as prestigious as Yngling will definitely help your acceptance chances!
In true CK fashion, I'm looking to kill my human wife, fuck a wild centaur, and then marry a rosebush.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
The jotner are definitely primordial, but the Vanir and Æsir don't seem to fit into the sky/cthonic divide. (And goddess of/personification of the underworld and recipient of souls of those who died with their boots off Hel is a jotun, daughter of Loki). Vanir seem to be predominantly fertility gods, compared to the largely war-like Æsir.
Later historians (including several Christian medieval ones) have speculated the Æsir/Vanir divide (and their war) as a garbled recollection of the meeting and merging of two human tribes but the pagan Norse certainly believed in them as gods.
The funny thing is that there are a ton of parallels to the Norse set up in Hinduism of all places, especially the older Hindu mythology. Slavic and Baltic too but those are expected and we know less about slavic and baltic as a whole than Hindu or Norse IIRC.
Cthonic gods are a bit more multifaceted than being pure death/afterlife gods. They have a wider portfolio of death, rebirth, fertility, harvest etc. A goddess like Freya falls pretty neatly into the Cthonic portfolio (Compare Freya and Demeter for example).
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
WoW
Dear Satan.....
His position as controller, the supervisor of the royal tax collectors at the port, was an appointment directly from the king, so yeah, that was officially his boss.
Up until 1989, professors in Norway had to be hired by the King, personally.* (And could only be fired by the King, personally.) PTO was granted (or not) by the university leadership, though. The head of a research project I'm part of is old enough to have his (framed) hiring papers signed by then-king Olav V ("the people's king") and then-PM Gro Harlem Brundtland ("mother of the country").
This is still true for some positions, but now it's limited to the highest members of the bureaucracy, judges, and the like.
* Technically, Kongen i statsråd ("the King-in-Council"), the weekly meeting (every Friday at 11 am) of the King and all the ministers. There, decisions that constitutionally can only be made by a joint session of the ministers (separate from decisions that can be made by individual minsters or their subordinates) are made. The King (or, if he's indisposed (he's quite elderly), the Crown Prince) presides, but under modern law he's just there to sign the documents.
(I might have mentioned this before.)
I ran across a similarly old yet recently found thing at work this week. From the wiki
Not quite as bad as PTO request making the trek through time, but still wild. ~350 years hiding in the stacks.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Augustus learned. He was the one who largely pivoted from constant expansion, even if a few later emperors defied this.
well, after he first conquered the rest of Spain and Dalmatia (though that was more of a rebellion), and he was trying to conquer Germania until that went sideways
With the exception of Antoninus Pius pretty every emperor for the first 3 centuries was busy with wars, and if they weren't expanding (like Trajan, Hadrian and Septimus Severus) they were busy fighting revolts or trying to solidify their shaky hold on power.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
More importantly, Rome needed constant expansion. Their entire economy was based on incorporating new treasure, resources and (especially, for a mostly agrarian society) arable land. Their internal economic growth wasn't nearly enough to sustain their society. Once they couldn't expand anymore because they couldn't conquer the surrounding civilizations for various reasons, they were forced to debase their currency and inflation went through the roof, and the economy unravelled.
Thank goodness we learned from our mistakes and don't have an economy that relies on an impossible target of limitless growth.