McCoy sees a giant white rabbit and Kirk meets an old bully out of nowhere and then a female yeoman says she was attacked by a stranger and Kirk says hmm maybe you’re imagining things.
Kirk you gaslighting motherf
That episode's one of the Peak Sexism points of TOS, I'd say. McCoy finally getting something to, ah, "do" besides be a grump isn't quite enough to compensate.
Pretty sure that's the episode a woman takes over Kirk's body and proceeds to menstruate all over the enterprise.... or something, I was pretty high when watching this episode.
Maybe it's a Voyager thing more than a trek thing but I'm halfway through s6 and like maybe 4 episodes have felt meaningful, either in terms of moving the overarching plot forward or just standalone episode weight.
I know I can't expect it to be discovery levels of long form but I'm kind of surprised this deep into the show and it feels like they only deal with the journey home part of the story like twice
After the Barkley episode I kind of just assumed there'd be more focus on the journey home part, even if it was just A-plot alien of the week, B-plot progress home
It just seems weird because I imagine the series hook as perfect for more long form elements
VOY was very much the showrunners' attempt to move away from the strong arcs of DS9 and just do More TNG.
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
Which continues to boggle my mind since it’s premise demands serialization and B5 and DS9 had already shown that serialization can work. Then I read the wiki article on their Native American ‘expert’ and it all makes sense.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
Which continues to boggle my mind since it’s premise demands serialization and B5 and DS9 had already shown that serialization can work. Then I read the wiki article on their Native American ‘expert’ and it all makes sense.
It doubly boggles the mind because Voyager was at least partially created in an attempt to screw over the BSG remake.
McCoy sees a giant white rabbit and Kirk meets an old bully out of nowhere and then a female yeoman says she was attacked by a stranger and Kirk says hmm maybe you’re imagining things.
Kirk you gaslighting motherf
That episode's one of the Peak Sexism points of TOS, I'd say. McCoy finally getting something to, ah, "do" besides be a grump isn't quite enough to compensate.
Pretty sure that's the episode a woman takes over Kirk's body and proceeds to menstruate all over the enterprise.... or something, I was pretty high when watching this episode.
It's not played nearly as broadly, and that's certainly a heavyweight in that competition, but there's a lot of low-key implied stuff going on w/r/t Shore Leave Planet.
Robert McNeil played the Nova Squadron leader who tries to cover-up a irresponsible conduct that lead to a fatal crash, and not only did they bring him back for Voyager, but the gave him a similar backstory... but changed him to a new character? Why?
Robert McNeil played the Nova Squadron leader who tries to cover-up a irresponsible conduct that lead to a fatal crash, and not only did they bring him back for Voyager, but the gave him a similar backstory... but changed him to a new character? Why?
Paying the writer of that episode royalties for creating the character for the entire run of Voyager would suck!
Y'know, I'm still in season 1 of DS9 in my binge watching, and I just got back around to the episode "Progress."
...I forgot how the storylines in DS9 hit so many emotional threads. I was going to say that it hits them in later seasons, but they start nailing them mid-way through season 1.
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
Never underestimate Trek’s ability to save a buck.
This is the same franchise where the original creator wrote dumb lyrics for the theme song just so he could steal half the composer's royalties for himself.
(That composer promptly quit the show, of course.)
The thing to understand about Star Trek is that while what's in front of the cameras is a post-scarcity socialist utopia, behind the cameras, they're all Ferengi.
Never underestimate Trek’s ability to save a buck.
This is the same franchise where the original creator wrote dumb lyrics for the theme song just so he could steal half the composer's royalties for himself.
(That composer promptly quit the show, of course.)
The thing to understand about Star Trek is that while what's in front of the cameras is a post-scarcity socialist utopia, behind the cameras, they're all Ferengi.
TNG is technically more Macross than it is Star Trek.
They swapped to armor piercing rounds at some point early in S1 due to the Jaffa armor, but yeah they aren't supposed to be future tech at all.
But the point on the staff weapons is accurate! No optics, no stabilization, slow fire rate, but it looks scary when it shoots.
Mostly it didn't matter how crap they were because before earth humans came on the scene the only thing staff weapons were up against was other staff weapons or humans with sticks and stones.
It was? I didn't know the dark remake had been on the horizon that long—it didn't premiere until 2 years after Voyager ended.
I'm not sure about that, but Ronald D Moore worked on Voyager and was openly frustrated with the lack of serialisation/consequences, so it definitely played a part in making BSG what it was.
JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
Yeah, Voyager played it cripplingly safe for seven seasons, while BSG just went around constantly writing checks that it couldn't cash. I'll never fault BSG for a lack of ambition. Just a bunch of other stuff.
At least Voyager never spent years saying the Borg have a plan, then admit that they didn't know what it was.
Voyager was what it wanted to be, which just wasn't what other people wanted it to be.
Which is a little funny, since BSG ended up with many of the same problems as Voyager.
Huh?
Man, BSG had some problems, but they weren't the same as Voyagers.
Both shows had main characters they didn't know what do with, so their arcs became series of random events that rarely impacted anything after the credits rolled. Voyager had Chakotay and Harry. BSG had Lee and, later on, Helo.
Both shows occasionally relied on a faux spiritualism that ultimately turned into just another Star Child—Kes and Starbuck.
The Equinox and Pegasus arcs are largely identical and both shows forget about following up on the plot or character development they caused. There's at least four plot hooks for the Pegasus that BSG never exploited.
These problems aren't as glaring in BSG as Voyager because it was better written and had better actors. Even when Lee was at peak Random Events*, he was miles better than Chakotay ever was.
We find out that Lee has fallen in love with a sex worker, that he ran out on a girlfriend because she was pregnant just before the apocalypse, and then he kills a child predator (and may have become a mob boss?) all in one episode. And no, none of it is ever mentioned again.
That said, BSG handled interpersonal conflict a lot better than Voyager. The civilian vs military thing between Roslin and Adama defines the first season and a half of BSG, and it ends through natural character development rather than the writers forgetting about it.
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MsAnthropyThe Lady of Pain Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the RhythmThe City of FlowersRegistered Userregular
Which is a little funny, since BSG ended up with many of the same problems as Voyager.
Huh?
Man, BSG had some problems, but they weren't the same as Voyagers.
Both shows had main characters they didn't know what do with, so their arcs became series of random events that rarely impacted anything after the credits rolled. Voyager had Chakotay and Harry. BSG had Lee and, later on, Helo.
Both shows occasionally relied on a faux spiritualism that ultimately turned into just another Star Child—Kes and Starbuck.
The Equinox and Pegasus arcs are largely identical and both shows forget about following up on the plot or character development they caused. There's at least four plot hooks for the Pegasus that BSG never exploited.
These problems aren't as glaring in BSG as Voyager because it was better written and had better actors. Even when Lee was at peak Random Events*, he was miles better than Chakotay ever was.
We find out that Lee has fallen in love with a sex worker, that he ran out on a girlfriend because she was pregnant just before the apocalypse, and then he kills a child predator (and may have become a mob boss?) all in one episode. And no, none of it is ever mentioned again.
That said, BSG handled interpersonal conflict a lot better than Voyager. The civilian vs military thing between Roslin and Adama defines the first season and a half of BSG, and it ends through natural character development rather than the writers forgetting about it.
Eh, I wouldn’t say that the Pegasus arc didn’t have any follow-up even if they didn’t hit everything one might have wanted. It was certainly light-years better than Equinox, and it directly impacted the show well into Season 3.
As far as Lee* and Helo go, I think the big problem was that they gave Lee’s defining characteristic of being ‘the highly principled one’ to Helo once the latter returned to the fleet. I honestly feel the show would have been much better if they stuck with the initial plan to not have Helo show up after the miniseries. Would have kept a lot of the BS plot lines from ever coming up.
Overall my complaints on that series were that they thought they could make it up as they went, and how they eventually dropped any ambiguity from the spiritual aspects as time went on (which conveniently gave them an out for the plot holes they couldn’t otherwise fill). I know I much preferred the show when you couldn’t tell whether Baltar’s visions were real or hallucinations—it certainly felt to me more in line with a show that thought aliens were too silly to have in a serious space-based sci-fi setting.
* That second season episode was hellaciously bad.
Which continues to boggle my mind since it’s premise demands serialization and B5 and DS9 had already shown that serialization can work. Then I read the wiki article on their Native American ‘expert’ and it all makes sense.
It doubly boggles the mind because Voyager was at least partially created in an attempt to screw over the BSG remake.
N...no.
At the time Voyager premiered Ron Moore was a producer and writer on DS9 in addition to working on the TNG movies.
Voyager ended several years before the BSG remake happened.
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Edit: You know I realized before reading his blog, that I was mildly insulted that he had never even watched the show, having heard him say something to the effect that it's "not my Star Trek" some years ago. (not optimistic enough or something). Reading his blog, it makes a lot of sense that he had some powerful emotional baggage attached to any new Star Trek having been in a cast that was really a family and not wanting anyone to compete with that. It's a totally normal response! I'm glad he's able to set that aside today to watch it, and I really hope he enjoys it!
Cambiata on
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
I mean, I don't know if what Inquisitor77's saying is true or not, but it's not impossible: the BSG that got made was just the last and successful one of many attempts going back to the 90s. Richard Hatch had been trying to make it happen for years and years. Bryan Singer was attached at one point.
I'm still not sure the timeline matches up since VOY was in development as early as the last season or two of TNG, but it's not necessarily impossible. Still, it kinda sounds like a fan-culture Just So Story.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Yeah after thinking about it I may have gotten the DS9/Babylon 5 situation mixed up with the Voyager/BSG situation? Also, Ron Moore being involved in both Trek and BSG probably confused things even more.
Either way Voyager was just really disappointing given the premise and where they went with it.
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That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
When I was a kid, I got to watch much of Voyager on broadcast TV back when it was in first run. I remember growing more and more frustrated with the series as the years went by. Than we got to Equinox. By the time they wrapped up part 2, I wished more than anything that the show had followed these guys instead of the crew we got. It seemed like their adventures and exploits had been far more interesting than what Voyager had gotten up to. Even now I wish we had Star Trek Equinox instead of what we got.
In Star trek technology is magic. I don't have a problem with that, since the society that shown needs that level of tech to achieve a post-scarcity organization. It's all in the name of space liberal moral time.
I'm not sure if any of you younger nerds are aware of the great Star trek vs Star wars bbs battles that happened back in the day. Let's just say that speculative science, is just that, speculative.
In Star trek technology is magic. I don't have a problem with that, since the society that shown needs that level of tech to achieve a post-scarcity organization. It's all in the name of space liberal moral time.
I'm not sure if any of you younger nerds are aware of the great Star trek vs Star wars bbs battles that happened back in the day. Let's just say that speculative science, is just that, speculative.
This older nerd is well aware, thank you. (Watched TNG in first run while at college.)
So in this episode the Enterprise is transporting a bride for a political marraige, who has the hots for Riker; after making out with him for a bit, Riker regains his composure and backs away. As he's leaving I'm thinking "I bet he goes to the holodeck after this" because I have a dirty mind.
Riker then immediately contacts the bridge to let them know he'll be on the holodeck if anyone needs him. Ha.
So in this episode the Enterprise is transporting a bride for a political marraige, who has the hots for Riker; after making out with him for a bit, Riker regains his composure and backs away. As he's leaving I'm thinking "I bet he goes to the holodeck after this" because I have a dirty mind.
Riker then immediately contacts the bridge to let them know he'll be on the holodeck if anyone needs him. Ha.
Star Trek never shied away from the less wholesome uses for the holodeck even if they were never shown in their entirety. It's always pleasure goddess this, slave girl that with some characters.
So in this episode the Enterprise is transporting a bride for a political marraige, who has the hots for Riker; after making out with him for a bit, Riker regains his composure and backs away. As he's leaving I'm thinking "I bet he goes to the holodeck after this" because I have a dirty mind.
Riker then immediately contacts the bridge to let them know he'll be on the holodeck if anyone needs him. Ha.
Star Trek never shied away from the less wholesome uses for the holodeck even if they were never shown in their entirety. It's always pleasure goddess this, slave girl that with some characters.
I do like how explicit DS9 is about the fact that the holosuites are for fucking
Posts
Pretty sure that's the episode a woman takes over Kirk's body and proceeds to menstruate all over the enterprise.... or something, I was pretty high when watching this episode.
Reeeeaaaallllllllly something.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Are you saying you don't like it?
Because that could be construed as MUTINY!!!
I know I can't expect it to be discovery levels of long form but I'm kind of surprised this deep into the show and it feels like they only deal with the journey home part of the story like twice
It just seems weird because I imagine the series hook as perfect for more long form elements
It doubly boggles the mind because Voyager was at least partially created in an attempt to screw over the BSG remake.
It's not played nearly as broadly, and that's certainly a heavyweight in that competition, but there's a lot of low-key implied stuff going on w/r/t Shore Leave Planet.
Robert McNeil played the Nova Squadron leader who tries to cover-up a irresponsible conduct that lead to a fatal crash, and not only did they bring him back for Voyager, but the gave him a similar backstory... but changed him to a new character? Why?
...I forgot how the storylines in DS9 hit so many emotional threads. I was going to say that it hits them in later seasons, but they start nailing them mid-way through season 1.
This is the same franchise where the original creator wrote dumb lyrics for the theme song just so he could steal half the composer's royalties for himself.
(That composer promptly quit the show, of course.)
The thing to understand about Star Trek is that while what's in front of the cameras is a post-scarcity socialist utopia, behind the cameras, they're all Ferengi.
TNG is technically more Macross than it is Star Trek.
Mostly it didn't matter how crap they were because before earth humans came on the scene the only thing staff weapons were up against was other staff weapons or humans with sticks and stones.
I'm not sure about that, but Ronald D Moore worked on Voyager and was openly frustrated with the lack of serialisation/consequences, so it definitely played a part in making BSG what it was.
Huh?
Man, BSG had some problems, but they weren't the same as Voyagers.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
Voyager was what it wanted to be, which just wasn't what other people wanted it to be.
Both shows had main characters they didn't know what do with, so their arcs became series of random events that rarely impacted anything after the credits rolled. Voyager had Chakotay and Harry. BSG had Lee and, later on, Helo.
Both shows occasionally relied on a faux spiritualism that ultimately turned into just another Star Child—Kes and Starbuck.
The Equinox and Pegasus arcs are largely identical and both shows forget about following up on the plot or character development they caused. There's at least four plot hooks for the Pegasus that BSG never exploited.
These problems aren't as glaring in BSG as Voyager because it was better written and had better actors. Even when Lee was at peak Random Events*, he was miles better than Chakotay ever was.
That said, BSG handled interpersonal conflict a lot better than Voyager. The civilian vs military thing between Roslin and Adama defines the first season and a half of BSG, and it ends through natural character development rather than the writers forgetting about it.
Eh, I wouldn’t say that the Pegasus arc didn’t have any follow-up even if they didn’t hit everything one might have wanted. It was certainly light-years better than Equinox, and it directly impacted the show well into Season 3.
As far as Lee* and Helo go, I think the big problem was that they gave Lee’s defining characteristic of being ‘the highly principled one’ to Helo once the latter returned to the fleet. I honestly feel the show would have been much better if they stuck with the initial plan to not have Helo show up after the miniseries. Would have kept a lot of the BS plot lines from ever coming up.
Overall my complaints on that series were that they thought they could make it up as they went, and how they eventually dropped any ambiguity from the spiritual aspects as time went on (which conveniently gave them an out for the plot holes they couldn’t otherwise fill). I know I much preferred the show when you couldn’t tell whether Baltar’s visions were real or hallucinations—it certainly felt to me more in line with a show that thought aliens were too silly to have in a serious space-based sci-fi setting.
* That second season episode was hellaciously bad.
"The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I’d beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." -- Jack Kirby
N...no.
At the time Voyager premiered Ron Moore was a producer and writer on DS9 in addition to working on the TNG movies.
Voyager ended several years before the BSG remake happened.
Edit: You know I realized before reading his blog, that I was mildly insulted that he had never even watched the show, having heard him say something to the effect that it's "not my Star Trek" some years ago. (not optimistic enough or something). Reading his blog, it makes a lot of sense that he had some powerful emotional baggage attached to any new Star Trek having been in a cast that was really a family and not wanting anyone to compete with that. It's a totally normal response! I'm glad he's able to set that aside today to watch it, and I really hope he enjoys it!
I'm still not sure the timeline matches up since VOY was in development as early as the last season or two of TNG, but it's not necessarily impossible. Still, it kinda sounds like a fan-culture Just So Story.
Either way Voyager was just really disappointing given the premise and where they went with it.
My new headcanon is "Computer, locate Neelix" is the most requested computer function followed by "Aw shit, dinner at home again it is, then".
I'm not sure if any of you younger nerds are aware of the great Star trek vs Star wars bbs battles that happened back in the day. Let's just say that speculative science, is just that, speculative.
This older nerd is well aware, thank you. (Watched TNG in first run while at college.)
Riker then immediately contacts the bridge to let them know he'll be on the holodeck if anyone needs him. Ha.
Star Trek never shied away from the less wholesome uses for the holodeck even if they were never shown in their entirety. It's always pleasure goddess this, slave girl that with some characters.
I do like how explicit DS9 is about the fact that the holosuites are for fucking