Huh. Just "won" with the orb guy. Got offered those 5 apparition cards early on. And then upgraded them so they wouldn't go away if I didn't play them. Plus I had the power that summons lightning every time I play a power and the power that summons a power every turn as intrinsics. So looks like now I've gotta beat it with the other two. I'm sure that'll unlock new content that's like...pretty easy, I so I can relax.
Huh. Just "won" with the orb guy. Got offered those 5 apparition cards early on. And then upgraded them so they wouldn't go away if I didn't play them. Plus I had the power that summons lightning every time I play a power and the power that summons a power every turn as intrinsics. So looks like now I've gotta beat it with the other two. I'm sure that'll unlock new content that's like...pretty easy, I so I can relax.
Man this game got brutal on the higher ascension levels. I'm at 18/16/18, and some of these event/hallway changes are downright mean.
17/18 is when it gets really brutal yeah
Wait, 15 isn't really brutal?
Oh, I was definitely struggling before these levels. I would say that up to 14, the modifiers add difficulty. 15, 17 and 18 add difficulty and spite. And I'm sure 19 and 20 will be likewise delightful.
Give me a kiss to build a dream on; And my imagination will thrive upon that kiss; Sweetheart, I ask no more than this; A kiss to build a dream on
My brother was over and was showing him this game before we headed out, since he has a switch and is into card games. He was playing on A1. After I got home I finished the run myself and it was hilarious what I could get away with. I think I had 3 magnetism triggering on the final boss with 15 damage to enemies when I added block and 12 metallicise. The boss died to 45 damage auto card play before I could take my last turn.
Uggh...having trouble getting my first win with that warrior type. 3 energy per turn is rough with this guy and all the relics that offer more have absurd drawbacks. My card removal strategy is removing strikes (as it is with the other classes). I assume that's smart? What I'm apparently doing a bad job with is picking which cards to take. Just not finding any particularly good synergies.
Uggh...having trouble getting my first win with that warrior type. 3 energy per turn is rough with this guy and all the relics that offer more have absurd drawbacks. My card removal strategy is removing strikes (as it is with the other classes). I assume that's smart? What I'm apparently doing a bad job with is picking which cards to take. Just not finding any particularly good synergies.
First, there are a bunch of common energy relics that don't give you +1 each turn, but are absolutely good (lantern, happy flower, sundial, tea set).
Second, the draw backs on the real energy relics are so bad because energy relics are absolutely amazing. Sozu is generally an autopick for me. Fusion hammer can be negated with an apothesis. Cursed key can be somewhat mitigated with a Omamori (or duvu doll, darkstone parapet) Mark of Pain with evolution. Etc.
Removing strikes is good, but spending gold on other things is often better
Ironclad is good at gaining strength and using vulnerability to kill shit quickly. Also has the best healing cards and relics (and an additional healing potion) versus the other characters. Reaper and Demon form and Feed can turn any run into a cake walk. Also ironclad can take 6 more damage per fight than every other character, without actually taking any damage because of the starting relic.
Like, if you are fighting a cultist, instead of having to block on the second turn, when it attacks for 6, just keep hitting it. Killing things quick is better than blocking, in my opinion!
Uggh...having trouble getting my first win with that warrior type. 3 energy per turn is rough with this guy and all the relics that offer more have absurd drawbacks. My card removal strategy is removing strikes (as it is with the other classes). I assume that's smart? What I'm apparently doing a bad job with is picking which cards to take. Just not finding any particularly good synergies.
First, there are a bunch of common energy relics that don't give you +1 each turn, but are absolutely good (lantern, happy flower, sundial, tea set).
Second, the draw backs on the real energy relics are so bad because energy relics are absolutely amazing. Sozu is generally an autopick for me. Fusion hammer can be negated with an apothesis. Cursed key can be somewhat mitigated with a Omamori (or duvu doll, darkstone parapet) Mark of Pain with evolution. Etc.
Removing strikes is good, but spending gold on other things is often better
Ironclad is good at gaining strength and using vulnerability to kill shit quickly. Also has the best healing cards and relics (and an additional healing potion) versus the other characters. Reaper and Demon form and Feed can turn any run into a cake walk. Also ironclad can take 6 more damage per fight than every other character, without actually taking any damage because of the starting relic.
Like, if you are fighting a cultist, instead of having to block on the second turn, when it attacks for 6, just keep hitting it. Killing things quick is better than blocking, in my opinion!
Also, take Snecko Eye. Always?
Huh...Did Snozu and...yeah...That was beneficial. Feed was good. Got it a bit late, but my HP got up to 103. Still got clobbered. I'm on maybe maybe my 8th run with this guy and haven't even made it to the 3rd floor boss. Beat it with the other two on the 2nd and 3rd. And...I know, I know....but I do feel like some of it's terrible luck. I get runs where I set up for a certain type of build (like strength), and then literally get no cards that increase my strength. I honestly made it to level 2 once without running across a single one. And one time...Late on level 3, the enemy wasn't attacking, and I got 5 block cards (which were NOT prevalent in this deck).
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AkimboEGMr. FancypantsWears very fine pants indeedRegistered Userregular
I think I might be calling it quits soon. I've enjoyed the climb so far, but at these levels it's more frustrating than fun. Looking forward to playing with the Watcher once she's out of beta.
Give me a kiss to build a dream on; And my imagination will thrive upon that kiss; Sweetheart, I ask no more than this; A kiss to build a dream on
Did they buff Tantrum, or did I just never notice it was shuffled into your draw pile until now?
It got buffed a while back. It's probably my favourite Wrath-enterer right now, with Eruption+ and Indignation close behind it.
Really interested to see where watcher goes from here - she still needs balance work (Her act 1 is explsoveily good due to her ability to well, blow things up, but her late game can be atrocious if you dont get broken things going on. Needs a bit more defensive options while having her early offenses shaved somewhat). She also still needs a better starter relic. But she's really taken shape as a very fun, very interesting character with a lot of complexity to her.
Finally had a good run with Ironclad (still lost, but because of a bad play). So I *don't* need to get a card table and a sign that says "Ironclad sucks. Change my mind"
I mean, I wouldn't really have much to say to change your mind if you did :P
(Others would disagree)
Ironclad is great, you haters are all from sone other dimension or something.
Yeah, i'm baffled why everyone hates clad. No other class gets as many easy wins just off Random Rare Relic, or choose a rare card. Ironclad is nutty good, and a lot of that is for the same reason Watcher is good - it can easily have a KILLER act 1. Like immolate can get you five elites in act 1. FIVE. or even more if you get wing boots and a kind act. off one fucking card!
That's just crazy! and sometiems you get Dead branch, and you just... win.
Ironclad is the only one I've gotten a A20 win with. So there's that I guess.
Clearly we need to do some more teaching streams together my dood!
Meanwhile, on the beta branch, some EXCITING changes - Well Laid Plans now costs 1. Corruption is now Rare! Dark Embrace is now Uncommon. Reprogram now costs you focus, but gives you STR and DEX
I love all of these. (okay, i'm a little bit cynical on Reprogram, but the rest are great!)
The interesting thing about my good Ironclad run was I had very few strength cards. Definitely not integral to the deck. What I did have was scattered set pieces...and a shit-ton of draw. (Okay, and lots of relics, to be fair)
Ironclad is the only one I've gotten a A20 win with. So there's that I guess.
Clearly we need to do some more teaching streams together my dood!
Meanwhile, on the beta branch, some EXCITING changes - Well Laid Plans now costs 1. Corruption is now Rare! Dark Embrace is now Uncommon. Reprogram now costs you focus, but gives you STR and DEX
I love all of these. (okay, i'm a little bit cynical on Reprogram, but the rest are great!)
Isn't that new Reprogram similar to a card from the beta?
Ironclad is the only one I've gotten a A20 win with. So there's that I guess.
Clearly we need to do some more teaching streams together my dood!
Meanwhile, on the beta branch, some EXCITING changes - Well Laid Plans now costs 1. Corruption is now Rare! Dark Embrace is now Uncommon. Reprogram now costs you focus, but gives you STR and DEX
I love all of these. (okay, i'm a little bit cynical on Reprogram, but the rest are great!)
Isn't that new Reprogram similar to a card from the beta?
Like @BSoB said, yeah it used to be reversed. This one is... I dont knwo what to make. It clearly sets up a focus-less defect a bi more. Which like, taht's not hte worst thing, but honestly i dont know how defect effectively defends without focus. i guess the idea here is you're leaning into hyperbeam/plasma orb shennagins, and going from there.
It's interesting though, and i LIKE interesting.
@MadPen just like you dont striclty need poison for the silent, or focus for the defect, strength is not a must have for Clad. it's just that it's generally the easiest/most consistent way to achieve the scaling you want. But you can still achive scaling through other ways.
I still stand by my awesome, only an inflame infinite 0 cost reaper deck i once beat a20 with as an example of "The fuck" sort of scaling you can put together. I got an early magic flower, no real strength was found, and ended up combining Dual Wield, Madness, and Reaper with Runic Pyramid to let me create at least one 0 cost reaper, and then dupe it infinitely. It was the stupidest combo, and it was so so good too.
Ironclad is the only one I've gotten a A20 win with. So there's that I guess.
Clearly we need to do some more teaching streams together my dood!
Meanwhile, on the beta branch, some EXCITING changes - Well Laid Plans now costs 1. Corruption is now Rare! Dark Embrace is now Uncommon. Reprogram now costs you focus, but gives you STR and DEX
I love all of these. (okay, i'm a little bit cynical on Reprogram, but the rest are great!)
Isn't that new Reprogram similar to a card from the beta?
Like @BSoB said, yeah it used to be reversed. This one is... I dont knwo what to make. It clearly sets up a focus-less defect a bi more. Which like, taht's not hte worst thing, but honestly i dont know how defect effectively defends without focus. i guess the idea here is you're leaning into hyperbeam/plasma orb shennagins, and going from there.
It's interesting though, and i LIKE interesting.
@MadPen just like you dont striclty need poison for the silent, or focus for the defect, strength is not a must have for Clad. it's just that it's generally the easiest/most consistent way to achieve the scaling you want. But you can still achive scaling through other ways.
I still stand by my awesome, only an inflame infinite 0 cost reaper deck i once beat a20 with as an example of "The fuck" sort of scaling you can put together. I got an early magic flower, no real strength was found, and ended up combining Dual Wield, Madness, and Reaper with Runic Pyramid to let me create at least one 0 cost reaper, and then dupe it infinitely. It was the stupidest combo, and it was so so good too.
Interesting--My brain may have been trained by Hearthstone to not chase combos like that. Like...I'm always looking for good combos, but..not like "guaranteed I win every match good"....which...of course is the requirement to win this game. Might need to pause a little more when considering the possibilities.
That was very much a cobbled together combo. It's not a strategy i would recommend chasing. It's just that i had Runic Pyramid, Reaper, and Dual Wield (Themselves a very strong combination) already, so when i got the madness event (and i believe i had toxic egg, so it was madness+), i was actually in a position where i went "hang on, i can do a thing with this".
This was also the same run i was so hard up for AoE i took old firebreathing. You know, the card that was a contender for WORSE CARD IN THE GAME. (Ironically, Beta Branch Firebreathing is very, very good, if not outright overtuned)
That SAID, i do think part of winning this game is being able to look at what you're being offered and identify what you can do that's strong. Like, should you chase infinite combos? No! They're bad and terrible normally, and creating a deck made to go infinite means you get hosed in seconds because thicker decks do better generally in this game. (Status card flood is a thing, and every act 3 boss will do it to you, as will all of act 4).
But it's worth KNOWING that if you say have, Sundial, at least one upgraded pommel strike, and a second pommel strike, you can create an infinite. Or that Snecko Eye can create infinite for the defect with AfO and Hologram, or Hologram Hologram, or AfO AfO. Like, AfO and Snecko is a great combo by itself, due to how they interact. But the fact it can go infinite is still a relevant, useful information to keep in your brainmeat.
Like, part of the reason Snecko and Runic Pyramid are THE BEST relics in the game, yes, even better than dead branch, is just how much stuff theyturn on, or otherwise enable . (Quick examples: Concentrate, Flex are not normally picakble, RP causes them to jump straight up in priority of pickableness. Meteor Strike is almost unpickable most of hte time, but turns into a windmill slam with Snecko. so on and so forth, they are stupid stupid strong)
Why are they doing that to Reprogram? The card has nothing to do with Focus, STR or Dex
Because they feel that the existing reprogram nolonger fits with the defect, and that this is a better niche for it.
Frankly, i'm inclined to agree with their assessment - Card selection like what scry allows is very much something that's in the watcher's pool - Defect already has very strong card draw. NuProgram plays into an existing but under-supported approach, that of the focusless/physical Bot, and offers a build-around-uncommon.
Got a very easy win yesterday with the Silent when I picked up the relic that gains dexterity every time you play three attacks in a turn. Didn't find many shiv cards but I found enough, and stacked and tripled poison took care of everything while I hid behind absurd block numbers. Also got the encounter that upgrades every single card in your deck right before the Act 3 boss, which was excellent timing.
I know shivs are not usually a great pick, but getting 3 attacks in a turn for a bonus relic turns me into a 0 cost attack junkie. I need them I need to do 9 attacks in a turn this needs to happen.
Wait can you even win with silent without abusing the shit out of after image?
Yes, quite easily! After image is great. But it's only one of the ways silent has to defend herself.
Generally you can put her defence strategies into four camps:
Intangible abuse. Dex stacking. Weak stacking (requires paper krane to be more than a side strategy,: but useful without) and After Image. Very rarely you can do tough bandage based approachs, but as that requires a rare relic it's not common to build around.
Generally you have some mix of these. intangibleity tends to conflict with Dex approaches, while it compliments after image very well. Paper krane tends to multiply the strength of Dex, and plays very well with poison. But it's not until the have Dex and intangible, or Dex and after image, or after Image with tough bandages and calculated gamble.
Searing Blow at least works, theoretically in infinite runs or something
Yeah but even then it's a resource hog that encourages a particularly daft play style.
I actually really want it gone because the stuff it encourages is just baaaaad.
I've been playing Watcher on the beta branch and she's a lot of fun
Grinding my way up through Ascension and i can reliably reach the heart, which is probably due to me having a lot more experience with the game overall than with the other characters. I've absolutely dumpstered Act 1 on every run so far, fighting as many elites as possible, and doing things like killing Slime Boss on turn 2.
But the heart is still dicey. Last 2 runs (A8 and A9) got absolutely hosed at the heart by card draw on turns 2 and 3. One of them was a Snecko Eye run where all my cards that retain kept drawing at 2/3 energy and Establishment didn't kick in fast enough to offset. Starting to think that Snecko is a legitimately bad relic on her if you're relying on things like Tranquility/Crescendo and other cards that retain. Which has been a really strong strategy overall.
Also got screwed by Vault putting Incense Burner on the wrong turn. There's a lot of crazy stuff going on with the Watcher and you can easily lose track of your best way through a fight. Which is weird considering how much scrying she has, her ability to retain cards, and being able to hulk out for a hundred damage in a turn pretty consistently.
I wish the UI tracked what card you played last. I've had a lot of turns where I forgot if I played a skill or an attack to end the last one, which I wasn't paying attention to until I drew a Crush Joints or a Sash Whip.
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Nice combos!
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Wait, 15 isn't really brutal?
Not getting a full heal after an act boss completely changed how I was playing.
I loved ending a boss fight at sub 10hp until I got that and realized I had to block damage or end the fights even quicker
Not as big a jump as 17/18 for me.
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Oh, I was definitely struggling before these levels. I would say that up to 14, the modifiers add difficulty. 15, 17 and 18 add difficulty and spite. And I'm sure 19 and 20 will be likewise delightful.
First, there are a bunch of common energy relics that don't give you +1 each turn, but are absolutely good (lantern, happy flower, sundial, tea set).
Second, the draw backs on the real energy relics are so bad because energy relics are absolutely amazing. Sozu is generally an autopick for me. Fusion hammer can be negated with an apothesis. Cursed key can be somewhat mitigated with a Omamori (or duvu doll, darkstone parapet) Mark of Pain with evolution. Etc.
Removing strikes is good, but spending gold on other things is often better
Ironclad is good at gaining strength and using vulnerability to kill shit quickly. Also has the best healing cards and relics (and an additional healing potion) versus the other characters. Reaper and Demon form and Feed can turn any run into a cake walk. Also ironclad can take 6 more damage per fight than every other character, without actually taking any damage because of the starting relic.
Like, if you are fighting a cultist, instead of having to block on the second turn, when it attacks for 6, just keep hitting it. Killing things quick is better than blocking, in my opinion!
Also, take Snecko Eye. Always?
Huh...Did Snozu and...yeah...That was beneficial. Feed was good. Got it a bit late, but my HP got up to 103. Still got clobbered. I'm on maybe maybe my 8th run with this guy and haven't even made it to the 3rd floor boss. Beat it with the other two on the 2nd and 3rd. And...I know, I know....but I do feel like some of it's terrible luck. I get runs where I set up for a certain type of build (like strength), and then literally get no cards that increase my strength. I honestly made it to level 2 once without running across a single one. And one time...Late on level 3, the enemy wasn't attacking, and I got 5 block cards (which were NOT prevalent in this deck).
It got buffed a while back. It's probably my favourite Wrath-enterer right now, with Eruption+ and Indignation close behind it.
Really interested to see where watcher goes from here - she still needs balance work (Her act 1 is explsoveily good due to her ability to well, blow things up, but her late game can be atrocious if you dont get broken things going on. Needs a bit more defensive options while having her early offenses shaved somewhat). She also still needs a better starter relic. But she's really taken shape as a very fun, very interesting character with a lot of complexity to her.
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(Others would disagree)
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Ironclad is great, you haters are all from sone other dimension or something.
Yeah, i'm baffled why everyone hates clad. No other class gets as many easy wins just off Random Rare Relic, or choose a rare card. Ironclad is nutty good, and a lot of that is for the same reason Watcher is good - it can easily have a KILLER act 1. Like immolate can get you five elites in act 1. FIVE. or even more if you get wing boots and a kind act. off one fucking card!
That's just crazy! and sometiems you get Dead branch, and you just... win.
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Clearly we need to do some more teaching streams together my dood!
Meanwhile, on the beta branch, some EXCITING changes - Well Laid Plans now costs 1. Corruption is now Rare! Dark Embrace is now Uncommon. Reprogram now costs you focus, but gives you STR and DEX
I love all of these. (okay, i'm a little bit cynical on Reprogram, but the rest are great!)
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
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Switch: 0293 6817 9891
Isn't that new Reprogram similar to a card from the beta?
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Like @BSoB said, yeah it used to be reversed. This one is... I dont knwo what to make. It clearly sets up a focus-less defect a bi more. Which like, taht's not hte worst thing, but honestly i dont know how defect effectively defends without focus. i guess the idea here is you're leaning into hyperbeam/plasma orb shennagins, and going from there.
It's interesting though, and i LIKE interesting.
@MadPen just like you dont striclty need poison for the silent, or focus for the defect, strength is not a must have for Clad. it's just that it's generally the easiest/most consistent way to achieve the scaling you want. But you can still achive scaling through other ways.
I still stand by my awesome, only an inflame infinite 0 cost reaper deck i once beat a20 with as an example of "The fuck" sort of scaling you can put together. I got an early magic flower, no real strength was found, and ended up combining Dual Wield, Madness, and Reaper with Runic Pyramid to let me create at least one 0 cost reaper, and then dupe it infinitely. It was the stupidest combo, and it was so so good too.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
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Interesting--My brain may have been trained by Hearthstone to not chase combos like that. Like...I'm always looking for good combos, but..not like "guaranteed I win every match good"....which...of course is the requirement to win this game. Might need to pause a little more when considering the possibilities.
This was also the same run i was so hard up for AoE i took old firebreathing. You know, the card that was a contender for WORSE CARD IN THE GAME. (Ironically, Beta Branch Firebreathing is very, very good, if not outright overtuned)
That SAID, i do think part of winning this game is being able to look at what you're being offered and identify what you can do that's strong. Like, should you chase infinite combos? No! They're bad and terrible normally, and creating a deck made to go infinite means you get hosed in seconds because thicker decks do better generally in this game. (Status card flood is a thing, and every act 3 boss will do it to you, as will all of act 4).
But it's worth KNOWING that if you say have, Sundial, at least one upgraded pommel strike, and a second pommel strike, you can create an infinite. Or that Snecko Eye can create infinite for the defect with AfO and Hologram, or Hologram Hologram, or AfO AfO. Like, AfO and Snecko is a great combo by itself, due to how they interact. But the fact it can go infinite is still a relevant, useful information to keep in your brainmeat.
Like, part of the reason Snecko and Runic Pyramid are THE BEST relics in the game, yes, even better than dead branch, is just how much stuff theyturn on, or otherwise enable . (Quick examples: Concentrate, Flex are not normally picakble, RP causes them to jump straight up in priority of pickableness. Meteor Strike is almost unpickable most of hte time, but turns into a windmill slam with Snecko. so on and so forth, they are stupid stupid strong)
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Because they feel that the existing reprogram nolonger fits with the defect, and that this is a better niche for it.
Frankly, i'm inclined to agree with their assessment - Card selection like what scry allows is very much something that's in the watcher's pool - Defect already has very strong card draw. NuProgram plays into an existing but under-supported approach, that of the focusless/physical Bot, and offers a build-around-uncommon.
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Yes, quite easily! After image is great. But it's only one of the ways silent has to defend herself.
Generally you can put her defence strategies into four camps:
Intangible abuse. Dex stacking. Weak stacking (requires paper krane to be more than a side strategy,: but useful without) and After Image. Very rarely you can do tough bandage based approachs, but as that requires a rare relic it's not common to build around.
Generally you have some mix of these. intangibleity tends to conflict with Dex approaches, while it compliments after image very well. Paper krane tends to multiply the strength of Dex, and plays very well with poison. But it's not until the have Dex and intangible, or Dex and after image, or after Image with tough bandages and calculated gamble.
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For my money its Scrape
Yeah but even then it's a resource hog that encourages a particularly daft play style.
I actually really want it gone because the stuff it encourages is just baaaaad.
Scrape is def a contender.
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Grinding my way up through Ascension and i can reliably reach the heart, which is probably due to me having a lot more experience with the game overall than with the other characters. I've absolutely dumpstered Act 1 on every run so far, fighting as many elites as possible, and doing things like killing Slime Boss on turn 2.
But the heart is still dicey. Last 2 runs (A8 and A9) got absolutely hosed at the heart by card draw on turns 2 and 3. One of them was a Snecko Eye run where all my cards that retain kept drawing at 2/3 energy and Establishment didn't kick in fast enough to offset. Starting to think that Snecko is a legitimately bad relic on her if you're relying on things like Tranquility/Crescendo and other cards that retain. Which has been a really strong strategy overall.
Also got screwed by Vault putting Incense Burner on the wrong turn. There's a lot of crazy stuff going on with the Watcher and you can easily lose track of your best way through a fight. Which is weird considering how much scrying she has, her ability to retain cards, and being able to hulk out for a hundred damage in a turn pretty consistently.
I wish the UI tracked what card you played last. I've had a lot of turns where I forgot if I played a skill or an attack to end the last one, which I wasn't paying attention to until I drew a Crush Joints or a Sash Whip.