Had an interesting comp game the other day where one of our tanks kept slagging me off for being a shit DPS despite me finishing with gold damage and kills and us winning the game (pretty handily too).
And then later a similar game where the two tanks were at each other's throats basically the entire match, even when things were going well for us. I just do not understand some people's compulsion to fight against their own team harder than they do the enemy.
Just went 30 and 7 on Blizzworld attack - lotta deaths - Vs. an excellent McCree who really landed shots and flashes. My team was timid as heck but we made it ^.^
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
I played a lot of Illidan in HotS so I kind of feel like I should have this. But I don't play Genji. I think I need to learn to play Genji to justify to myself why I would buy this.
I played a lot of Illidan in HotS so I kind of feel like I should have this. But I don't play Genji. I think I need to learn to play Genji to justify to myself why I would buy this.
On the one hand "I'll just learn Genji!" sounds like lunacy to me. On the other hand, all these Doomfists runnin' around lately has kinda' adjusted my perception on the "high skill" flankers. You can do it!
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
I use sombra's teleporter as vertical mobility. This may make me a bad sombra, but for better or worse I'm in it with the rest of the team in a team fight. I just can't conscience running around feeling like I'm accomplishing very little away from the team anymore. And to be honest it's incredibly satisfying to hack a rein mid charge and save a teammate.
Nobody says you have to park the teleporter on a big health pack near your spawn, you could put it on an enemy health pack instead or just toss it somewhere safe shortly before you engage.
Nobody says you have to park the teleporter on a big health pack near your spawn, you could put it on an enemy health pack instead or just toss it somewhere safe shortly before you engage.
I'm not saying it's bad play, it just doesn't click with me.
Having said that, I generally agree with Chance that my matches have improved the more I've learned to withdraw and stay alive when necessary. I think this is maybe what MH is good for teaching at times.
What they need to do is make tanks actually fun to play if they want people to play them.
Look at the two tanks dominating the meta right now, and outside of shields, what do they do differently than the other tanks? They have an effective range beyond spitting distance.
Anyone who doesn't like playing characters limited to what are essentially shotguns or guns that are only effective in shotgun range aren't going to want to play tank.
And they aren't even very strong or rewarding shotguns at that. Anyone who has played shooters knows that shotguns are all about risking getting in close for big, powerful blasts.
D. Va's shotguns are hilariously weak. Even at point blank range I fucking hate the way they feel. Isn't her mech designed to destroy ever-evolving robots that are WAY tougher and more dangerous than the relatively normal organic enemies she fights in game? Her micromissiles are stupid weak too. I god damn hate this character so much because she should feel powerful and everything she does outside her ult just makes me wish they would delete her and replace her with an Atlas from Battletech to wash the taste out such a pitiful excuse for a big stompy robot out of our collective mouths.
Reinhardt doesn't even get a gun, he get s a giant fuck-off hammer. It's... Kinda ok, but you're pretty reliant on your team in order to ever get full use out of it, and it still takes like 3 or 4 hits to kill even the squishiest characters. They're asking me to put a lot of faith in a bunch of randos to keep me alive long enough to actually have any fun using his weapon.
Roadhog inconsistently feels good. The hook always feels good to land at least, and his alt fire helps with his spread being such shit. If I want to play with shotguns however I'd just pick Reaper over him since I get more consistent bursty shotgun goodness out of that.
Hamster... Those are giant ass .50 cals he's rocking and they feel like hitting people with spitballs. Here we go again with making a character be stuck with a weak-feeling gun in a game about shooting guns. Some might like to play him for his mobility, but there's so many characters that can and will shut that down that the two seasons I played him it was horrible never being able to fully utilize it in the thick of battle.
Ape Escape has his short ranged tickle beam. It goes through shields, great! Literally every healer except maybe Lucio can match the damage or straight up outheal it. This doesn't feel like a gun, this feels like a feather duster. At least make his leap do some really meaty damage if I land on someone with it! Jesus Christ, he's ALMOST tied with D. Va for most underwhelming feeling weapon loadout.
Russian Bear Lady CAN feel nice... Or used to, I dunno since her beam damage output got nerfed. Still, her damage relied ENTIRELY on going up against a team stupid enough to shoot your bubbles. Most of the time I went up against people who could actually control their itchy trigger fingers when I popped a bubb on someone or myself. You have to have patience to get her gun to feel good and good luck asking gamers to be patient.
Sigma is the ONLY tank I actually feel any sort of enjoyment playing, because they totally NAILED what a tank is supposed to be with him. Think about it: Outside of the context of videogames, if someone says "Hey you wanna play a game as a Tank?" what do you think of? You think of a huge, lumbering, super-heavily armored vehicle with a big fuck-off cannon that does big damage between slow reload sequences. Maybe they have a mounted machine gun as well, but it's giant, slow, armored gun that fires huge exploding shells at things. That's what Sigma feels like. He feels like an ACTUAL TANK.
Orisa kinda sorta feels like a Tank, but a boring one since her playstyle is all about plopping down a shield and standing in one place holding down left click. She feels more like a mobile Machine Gun Nest than a tank.
You're absolutely not wrong, but the problem is kind of inherent to their game design. Tanks are there specifically to soak up damage. They exist to be shot and just take it. In order to make them fun for people who just wanna shoot, they need to play more like DPS, but to balance that they need to remove their tankiness...at which point you just have a beefy DPS.
I can imagine a world where tanks are just a little beefier than DPS and only do a little less damage, and healers are just a little more fragile but output a little extra healing, with all the characters still being able to put out consistent damage and the game mostly plays like a more straightforward team-based FPS. If that's how it was from the beginning, for better or worse we'd be having an entirely different conversation. But this far in, I just don't know what they do to make more people want to play non-DPS roles without just making them DPS-lite, which would require a massive overhaul of just about every character.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
It occurred to me awhile ago that one of the reasons why I have an aversion to Baptiste's gun is that it is similar to Lucio's gun, which does not feel good to me, even if I can do work with it.
As someone who mostly plays tank or support, the only tank that really bothers me in terms of gameplay is Reinhardt, because holding the shield up isn't fun.
Orisa's gun feels fine, figuring out where to place my shield is fun, fortifying through an attack feels good, and trying to fish people off ledges or back out of cover is good.
Winston feels good if you get in there and hit several people at once then gtfo, though conversely when you can't he doesn't.
Sigma's shield is active and his offensive options feel good.
Roadhog disintegrates things and hitting the hook is the best. Good use of your bodyblock and self-heal feels satisfying too.
Ball can do ball stuff.
Managing Zarya bubbles is fun, not a huge fan of the way either of her guns feels though.
D.Va's my favorite to play, rocketing around and infinite shooting and eating attacks like candy, though I struggle to use her as effectively as I can use Orisa or Roadhog or even Winston. Because I'm bad, I wish I could hold down her missile button to make them lock on.
I rarely play Roadhog or Winston or Ball for aesthetic reasons, but I try Rein from time to time and it never feels fun, even if everything goes well.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Rein is about picking key moments for switching from max defense to max offense, with the odd Firestrike thrown in. The big difference between him and newer tanks is that he's picking which option to use at a given moment instead of just trying to use all his stuff to the max all the time. When you're good with him, you don't do anything up until the point where you collapse the enemy team in a few seconds. The shield gets you in a good position and keeps you and your team safe until you're ready to make a choice pick or two before bringing the rest of the enemy team down.
I've actually been putting him to huge effect with the current shield-heavy meta. The only thing about shields that Rein cares about is that they stop his ult, which is not that big a deal since he can often push right through them or flank them. All the rest of his damage completely ignores shields, and an enemy Orissa can actually help your Rein by Fortifying; if you've snagged somebody with the charge, Orissa will keep from blasting through the whole enemy line while still letting you smash whoever you caught. And Orisa herself is kinda hosed against a close-up Rein if she can't land a stream of headshots right away, which is a lot harder than it sounds with a point-blank Rein swinging and hopping around.
Seeing those important moments is key with him. Sometimes it means duking it out and dropping a front-line tank, sometimes it means blindsiding the enemy team with a charge that costs them a healer and knocks their tanks out of position. But because of that shield and his attacks, Rein is usually the tank best able to take advantage of his own openings, instead of relying on his team to jump in as well.
As someone who mostly plays tank or support, the only tank that really bothers me in terms of gameplay is Reinhardt, because holding the shield up isn't fun.
Orisa's gun feels fine, figuring out where to place my shield is fun, fortifying through an attack feels good, and trying to fish people off ledges or back out of cover is good.
Winston feels good if you get in there and hit several people at once then gtfo, though conversely when you can't he doesn't.
Sigma's shield is active and his offensive options feel good.
Roadhog disintegrates things and hitting the hook is the best. Good use of your bodyblock and self-heal feels satisfying too.
Ball can do ball stuff.
Managing Zarya bubbles is fun, not a huge fan of the way either of her guns feels though.
D.Va's my favorite to play, rocketing around and infinite shooting and eating attacks like candy, though I struggle to use her as effectively as I can use Orisa or Roadhog or even Winston. Because I'm bad, I wish I could hold down her missile button to make them lock on.
I rarely play Roadhog or Winston or Ball for aesthetic reasons, but I try Rein from time to time and it never feels fun, even if everything goes well.
Be more aggressive. Use the shield to block damage to the rest of your team on approach (shield hopping let's you cover ground fast while keeping the shield up most of the time) but you need to draw the enemies focus by getting in their face. Swing your hammer to force them to back up and then put your shield up to let your team occupy it. Your team should (ideally) put resources into you to keep you alive (heals, Zarya bubbles, etc.). The enemy team simply can't ignore you so if your team is investing in your survival, you can gain the upperhand by forcing them back or punishing them for not moving. It can get a little too fun to go wild with the hammer so make sure you're mindful of your aggression.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited October 2019
Yeah, you can't be the dumbass Rein that is constantly suicide charging the enemy team and then getting mad when nobody follows him. It's one thing when you pick a good moment to charge and blow an enemy team right of the back of the first point of Hanamura in the first twenty seconds of the match, it's another thing when you've spent the last six charges getting cut off from your team by a Mei wall and dying pathetically in a 1v6 fight.
You've gotta be aggressive enough to keep the enemy disorganized and give your own team room to maneuver, but not so aggressive that your team is left waving at your corpse as it skids to a halt a quarter mile behind enemy lines.
As someone who mostly plays tank or support, the only tank that really bothers me in terms of gameplay is Reinhardt, because holding the shield up isn't fun.
Orisa's gun feels fine, figuring out where to place my shield is fun, fortifying through an attack feels good, and trying to fish people off ledges or back out of cover is good.
Winston feels good if you get in there and hit several people at once then gtfo, though conversely when you can't he doesn't.
Sigma's shield is active and his offensive options feel good.
Roadhog disintegrates things and hitting the hook is the best. Good use of your bodyblock and self-heal feels satisfying too.
Ball can do ball stuff.
Managing Zarya bubbles is fun, not a huge fan of the way either of her guns feels though.
D.Va's my favorite to play, rocketing around and infinite shooting and eating attacks like candy, though I struggle to use her as effectively as I can use Orisa or Roadhog or even Winston. Because I'm bad, I wish I could hold down her missile button to make them lock on.
I rarely play Roadhog or Winston or Ball for aesthetic reasons, but I try Rein from time to time and it never feels fun, even if everything goes well.
Be more aggressive. Use the shield to block damage to the rest of your team on approach (shield hopping let's you cover ground fast while keeping the shield up most of the time) but you need to draw the enemies focus by getting in their face. Swing your hammer to force them to back up and then put your shield up to let your team occupy it. Your team should (ideally) put resources into you to keep you alive (heals, Zarya bubbles, etc.). The enemy team simply can't ignore you so if your team is investing in your survival, you can gain the upperhand by forcing them back or punishing them for not moving. It can get a little too fun to go wild with the hammer so make sure you're mindful of your aggression.
All of this is good advice for playing Rein better, but none of it makes him feel more fun. As someone who plays tank a lot, and plays it aggressively, Rein has always been my least favorite tank to spend time on. His kit just feels so bleh to me most of the time. Except for Earthshatter. A well timed shatter is one of the best feelings in the game.
Speaking of suicide Reins, I had one on my team while playing Bap on King's Row the other day. He kept charging in, and I'd throw my immortality up to where he ended up, but of course when you're all alone in enemy territory that's not gonna help too much. Did that a couple times before I decided to leave him to his fate and focus on trying to keep the rest of my team up after he inevitably died.
I feel like a big reason there's more DPS players is because there's so many more DPS choices. I really think they need to rework some of the more utility DPS and move them into support or tank roles.
Mei is absolutely an off tank not a dps. Torb/Symm/Sombra could theoretically be support (again for Symm) but it's been pretty proven that a support with 0 healing output isn't worth it. Everyone else seems pretty appropriate as dps.
Sombra probably has the best chance of working as a no heal support, but you'd have to buff hack to be something ridiculous like no cooldown and worked through shields.
KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
Make teams 7 players so there can be 3 dps
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited October 2019
Honestly I don't even think Tanks are boring to play rn, its my preferred role. I could see it getting boring if you only played "The Meta" but I don't so eh.
But the problem still lies with the fact that DPS role has more characters and variety than the Tank/Support role combined.
And tbh I don't know what they can do to fix that at this point, I kind of feel like they should have strived for role parity from the jump.
Dragkonias on
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
This whole conversation is baffling because tanks still do too much damage. That's the main reason goats was so dominant and they had to snip it with forced 2-2-2; tanks were just better at DPS than DPS, because doing 80% damage for three times as long is a good deal.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited October 2019
I'm not even trying to be rude but man does it seem like I've been dealing with a lot of potato DPS players lately.
Like its been a bunch of prolonged fights that we eventually lose just cause we can't kill anything.
This whole conversation is baffling because tanks still do too much damage. That's the main reason goats was so dominant and they had to snip it with forced 2-2-2; tanks were just better at DPS than DPS, because doing 80% damage for three times as long is a good deal.
That isn't true at all. The high health combined with a ton of healing is why GOATs was dominant. They could just outlast any other comp (until right before 2-2-2 was implemented). You could maybe make the argument that Zarya can do too much damage, but I still don't think that's true.
Edit: I mean, GOATs wasn't possible until there were multiple AoE healers.
i had this beautiful game last night where i had almost 40% healing as Lucio on my team. My Rein just kept pushing and the team actually stayed with him and we just steam rolled the other team. On Defense in Junkertown we literrally held them in their spawn (though a big part was the enemy team would not switch off widow and reaper). It was a joy to play that kind of game, but it is the rare exception. Most rein's i play with just stand there hoping their team does something while the enemy team just whittles down the shields.
I like playing tanks, I don't think any of the characters are broken or badly designed. It's a different play style than DPS and that's okay.
I think what they could do to make the role more popular is to nudge it more in the offtank direction and away from heavy shield anchor tanks. Mostly that means nerfing the shields of Rein/Orisa. Give them better mobility and weaker shields, so that the game is less reliant on shields as a mechanic and there are more options for the skirmish style of tanking. I think shields have gotten out of control and need to be more nice-to-have rather than the thing that most comps revolve around.
Also I think Sigma is too complicated to play. It scares people off who otherwise might go tank to play him. Mostly it's his shield management that does that, I think it needs a redesign to be more fire-and-forget like Orisa's.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited October 2019
Well...I mean how would they do that as the entire game was designed with shields in mind.
Like there are some lanes that would be even more brutal without shields.
Well...I mean how would they do that as the entire game was designed with shields in mind.
Like there are some lanes that would be even more brutal without shields.
Well it's not like nobody plays comps without Rein or Orisa, the game still works fine even when nobody uses shields. Weaker shields makes the game less chokepoint oriented in general. But yeah there would be trickle down balance impact for sure.
As someone who mostly plays tank or support, the only tank that really bothers me in terms of gameplay is Reinhardt, because holding the shield up isn't fun.
Orisa's gun feels fine, figuring out where to place my shield is fun, fortifying through an attack feels good, and trying to fish people off ledges or back out of cover is good.
Winston feels good if you get in there and hit several people at once then gtfo, though conversely when you can't he doesn't.
Sigma's shield is active and his offensive options feel good.
Roadhog disintegrates things and hitting the hook is the best. Good use of your bodyblock and self-heal feels satisfying too.
Ball can do ball stuff.
Managing Zarya bubbles is fun, not a huge fan of the way either of her guns feels though.
D.Va's my favorite to play, rocketing around and infinite shooting and eating attacks like candy, though I struggle to use her as effectively as I can use Orisa or Roadhog or even Winston. Because I'm bad, I wish I could hold down her missile button to make them lock on.
I rarely play Roadhog or Winston or Ball for aesthetic reasons, but I try Rein from time to time and it never feels fun, even if everything goes well.
Be more aggressive. Use the shield to block damage to the rest of your team on approach (shield hopping let's you cover ground fast while keeping the shield up most of the time) but you need to draw the enemies focus by getting in their face. Swing your hammer to force them to back up and then put your shield up to let your team occupy it. Your team should (ideally) put resources into you to keep you alive (heals, Zarya bubbles, etc.). The enemy team simply can't ignore you so if your team is investing in your survival, you can gain the upperhand by forcing them back or punishing them for not moving. It can get a little too fun to go wild with the hammer so make sure you're mindful of your aggression.
That again just feels terrible. That's a LOT more time I'm not "shooting" anything. In a shooter. That's like, the one sin you DON'T want to commit in an FPS.
If my hammer swings were more individually impactful (Again going back to the Tank allegory) then that'd be fine, but as it stands time spent not shooting/hitting things is time spent being bored.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
I mean with Reinhardt you will have periods where you aren't doing a lot of swinging.
Its one of the reasons his ult charges so quickly, the way his kit is built he kind of has impact spikes.
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BaidolI will hold him offEscape while you canRegistered Userregular
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And then later a similar game where the two tanks were at each other's throats basically the entire match, even when things were going well for us. I just do not understand some people's compulsion to fight against their own team harder than they do the enemy.
On the one hand "I'll just learn Genji!" sounds like lunacy to me. On the other hand, all these Doomfists runnin' around lately has kinda' adjusted my perception on the "high skill" flankers. You can do it!
I'm not saying it's bad play, it just doesn't click with me.
Its allows for more aggressive plays as long as you're careful.
Wonder if they decided they were being too generous.
Look at the two tanks dominating the meta right now, and outside of shields, what do they do differently than the other tanks? They have an effective range beyond spitting distance.
Anyone who doesn't like playing characters limited to what are essentially shotguns or guns that are only effective in shotgun range aren't going to want to play tank.
And they aren't even very strong or rewarding shotguns at that. Anyone who has played shooters knows that shotguns are all about risking getting in close for big, powerful blasts.
D. Va's shotguns are hilariously weak. Even at point blank range I fucking hate the way they feel. Isn't her mech designed to destroy ever-evolving robots that are WAY tougher and more dangerous than the relatively normal organic enemies she fights in game? Her micromissiles are stupid weak too. I god damn hate this character so much because she should feel powerful and everything she does outside her ult just makes me wish they would delete her and replace her with an Atlas from Battletech to wash the taste out such a pitiful excuse for a big stompy robot out of our collective mouths.
Reinhardt doesn't even get a gun, he get s a giant fuck-off hammer. It's... Kinda ok, but you're pretty reliant on your team in order to ever get full use out of it, and it still takes like 3 or 4 hits to kill even the squishiest characters. They're asking me to put a lot of faith in a bunch of randos to keep me alive long enough to actually have any fun using his weapon.
Roadhog inconsistently feels good. The hook always feels good to land at least, and his alt fire helps with his spread being such shit. If I want to play with shotguns however I'd just pick Reaper over him since I get more consistent bursty shotgun goodness out of that.
Hamster... Those are giant ass .50 cals he's rocking and they feel like hitting people with spitballs. Here we go again with making a character be stuck with a weak-feeling gun in a game about shooting guns. Some might like to play him for his mobility, but there's so many characters that can and will shut that down that the two seasons I played him it was horrible never being able to fully utilize it in the thick of battle.
Ape Escape has his short ranged tickle beam. It goes through shields, great! Literally every healer except maybe Lucio can match the damage or straight up outheal it. This doesn't feel like a gun, this feels like a feather duster. At least make his leap do some really meaty damage if I land on someone with it! Jesus Christ, he's ALMOST tied with D. Va for most underwhelming feeling weapon loadout.
Russian Bear Lady CAN feel nice... Or used to, I dunno since her beam damage output got nerfed. Still, her damage relied ENTIRELY on going up against a team stupid enough to shoot your bubbles. Most of the time I went up against people who could actually control their itchy trigger fingers when I popped a bubb on someone or myself. You have to have patience to get her gun to feel good and good luck asking gamers to be patient.
Sigma is the ONLY tank I actually feel any sort of enjoyment playing, because they totally NAILED what a tank is supposed to be with him. Think about it: Outside of the context of videogames, if someone says "Hey you wanna play a game as a Tank?" what do you think of? You think of a huge, lumbering, super-heavily armored vehicle with a big fuck-off cannon that does big damage between slow reload sequences. Maybe they have a mounted machine gun as well, but it's giant, slow, armored gun that fires huge exploding shells at things. That's what Sigma feels like. He feels like an ACTUAL TANK.
Orisa kinda sorta feels like a Tank, but a boring one since her playstyle is all about plopping down a shield and standing in one place holding down left click. She feels more like a mobile Machine Gun Nest than a tank.
I can imagine a world where tanks are just a little beefier than DPS and only do a little less damage, and healers are just a little more fragile but output a little extra healing, with all the characters still being able to put out consistent damage and the game mostly plays like a more straightforward team-based FPS. If that's how it was from the beginning, for better or worse we'd be having an entirely different conversation. But this far in, I just don't know what they do to make more people want to play non-DPS roles without just making them DPS-lite, which would require a massive overhaul of just about every character.
I rarely play Roadhog or Winston or Ball for aesthetic reasons, but I try Rein from time to time and it never feels fun, even if everything goes well.
I've actually been putting him to huge effect with the current shield-heavy meta. The only thing about shields that Rein cares about is that they stop his ult, which is not that big a deal since he can often push right through them or flank them. All the rest of his damage completely ignores shields, and an enemy Orissa can actually help your Rein by Fortifying; if you've snagged somebody with the charge, Orissa will keep from blasting through the whole enemy line while still letting you smash whoever you caught. And Orisa herself is kinda hosed against a close-up Rein if she can't land a stream of headshots right away, which is a lot harder than it sounds with a point-blank Rein swinging and hopping around.
Seeing those important moments is key with him. Sometimes it means duking it out and dropping a front-line tank, sometimes it means blindsiding the enemy team with a charge that costs them a healer and knocks their tanks out of position. But because of that shield and his attacks, Rein is usually the tank best able to take advantage of his own openings, instead of relying on his team to jump in as well.
Be more aggressive. Use the shield to block damage to the rest of your team on approach (shield hopping let's you cover ground fast while keeping the shield up most of the time) but you need to draw the enemies focus by getting in their face. Swing your hammer to force them to back up and then put your shield up to let your team occupy it. Your team should (ideally) put resources into you to keep you alive (heals, Zarya bubbles, etc.). The enemy team simply can't ignore you so if your team is investing in your survival, you can gain the upperhand by forcing them back or punishing them for not moving. It can get a little too fun to go wild with the hammer so make sure you're mindful of your aggression.
You've gotta be aggressive enough to keep the enemy disorganized and give your own team room to maneuver, but not so aggressive that your team is left waving at your corpse as it skids to a halt a quarter mile behind enemy lines.
All of this is good advice for playing Rein better, but none of it makes him feel more fun. As someone who plays tank a lot, and plays it aggressively, Rein has always been my least favorite tank to spend time on. His kit just feels so bleh to me most of the time. Except for Earthshatter. A well timed shatter is one of the best feelings in the game.
Speaking of suicide Reins, I had one on my team while playing Bap on King's Row the other day. He kept charging in, and I'd throw my immortality up to where he ended up, but of course when you're all alone in enemy territory that's not gonna help too much. Did that a couple times before I decided to leave him to his fate and focus on trying to keep the rest of my team up after he inevitably died.
We lost that game pretty handily.
Sombra probably has the best chance of working as a no heal support, but you'd have to buff hack to be something ridiculous like no cooldown and worked through shields.
But the problem still lies with the fact that DPS role has more characters and variety than the Tank/Support role combined.
And tbh I don't know what they can do to fix that at this point, I kind of feel like they should have strived for role parity from the jump.
Like its been a bunch of prolonged fights that we eventually lose just cause we can't kill anything.
I play Tracer, never get so much as a Moira sneeze in my direction = we lose lol
Yeah...I've also been noticing some questionable supports.
Like...I'm dying right in front of you Mercy and you won't stop pocketing this full health Rein who is too afraid to push W...and we lose.
Honestly, I've noticed that like my team being afraid to push is usually the biggest indicator of whatever or not we're gonna lose a fight.
Probably a dozen times in the past week I've screetched into a headset "I killed half their team could you guys please push a little!?"
'Course the only one hearing it is my brother, standing passively in a choke as D.Va...
Siiiigh...
That isn't true at all. The high health combined with a ton of healing is why GOATs was dominant. They could just outlast any other comp (until right before 2-2-2 was implemented). You could maybe make the argument that Zarya can do too much damage, but I still don't think that's true.
Edit: I mean, GOATs wasn't possible until there were multiple AoE healers.
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I think what they could do to make the role more popular is to nudge it more in the offtank direction and away from heavy shield anchor tanks. Mostly that means nerfing the shields of Rein/Orisa. Give them better mobility and weaker shields, so that the game is less reliant on shields as a mechanic and there are more options for the skirmish style of tanking. I think shields have gotten out of control and need to be more nice-to-have rather than the thing that most comps revolve around.
Also I think Sigma is too complicated to play. It scares people off who otherwise might go tank to play him. Mostly it's his shield management that does that, I think it needs a redesign to be more fire-and-forget like Orisa's.
Like there are some lanes that would be even more brutal without shields.
Well it's not like nobody plays comps without Rein or Orisa, the game still works fine even when nobody uses shields. Weaker shields makes the game less chokepoint oriented in general. But yeah there would be trickle down balance impact for sure.
That again just feels terrible. That's a LOT more time I'm not "shooting" anything. In a shooter. That's like, the one sin you DON'T want to commit in an FPS.
If my hammer swings were more individually impactful (Again going back to the Tank allegory) then that'd be fine, but as it stands time spent not shooting/hitting things is time spent being bored.
Its one of the reasons his ult charges so quickly, the way his kit is built he kind of has impact spikes.