"I'm increasingly worried that President Trump will want to shut down the government again because of impeachment," Schumer told reporters. "He always likes to create diversions. I hope and pray he won’t want to cause another government shutdown because it might be a diversion away from impeachment."
This is just an offhand quote from Schumer but I could definitely see Trump making this play.
I figured Trump's dipping approval rating & lack of any policy wins during the last shutdown would prevent him from trying it again, but if anyone tells him he can delay impeachment and get it out of the news with a shutdown, we might be beating the 35-day record.
The closer he pushes impeachment toward the 2020 election, the more traction he'll have in claiming it's a political hit job. And he can easily buy himself a month or two vetoing a CR.
"Oh please Mr Trump, don't fling us into the brier-patch."
This is good work by Schumer defining the narrative ahead of time.
I'm not so sure that trump will distract from one bad thing with an even worse thing that won't even make the impeachment go away.
besides, the house can just keep sending budgets and what do you know, the only guy holding shit up is trump (and/or mcconnell)
You don't think Donald Trump will do the dumb thing?
Tough call
He's really really dumb, but he can still chew and walk forward and stuff. Purposely shutting down the government to -avoid- people wanting to impeach him seems .... well, .... maybe he would
Congress isn't shut down, but it's bad optics to work on anything other than re-opening the government while it's shut down. "These evil democrats are more concerned with impeaching me than opening the government!", etc
And it DOES shut down any requests for information or testimony that would rely on a furloughed federal employee somewhere in the chain.
Except the narrative will be "Trump is just trying to shut down investigations into his illegal conduct and he's hurt the american people to do it!". That's what they are trying to get into the narrative here.
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NEO|PhyteThey follow the stars, bound together.Strands in a braid till the end.Registered Userregular
Congress isn't shut down, but it's bad optics to work on anything other than re-opening the government while it's shut down. "These evil democrats are more concerned with impeaching me than opening the government!", etc
After the house passes a CR, their involvement in getting the government open is done until the other participants do/don't do their part.
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
Congress isn't shut down, but it's bad optics to work on anything other than re-opening the government while it's shut down. "These evil democrats are more concerned with impeaching me than opening the government!", etc
After the house passes a CR, their involvement in getting the government open is done until the other participants do/don't do their part.
Passing a clean CR seems a good way to shift the narrative, since you can say "everything keeps running the same as before, we'll look at changes after impeachment". It's an easy sell to punt.
Congress isn't shut down, but it's bad optics to work on anything other than re-opening the government while it's shut down. "These evil democrats are more concerned with impeaching me than opening the government!", etc
After the house passes a CR, their involvement in getting the government open is done until the other participants do/don't do their part.
Eh, yes and no. If Trump is forcing a shutdown, he's going to claim that the CR is unacceptable for Made-up Reason XYZ and demand the House send him what he wants (which in January was the wall funding, despite the fact that the House had passed a clean CR). Regardless of the truth of the matter, it gives him more ammo if the House turns back to impeachment instead of sticking to the message, "We did our part, we're not doing anything else until the government is open, now you do your part."
If he does gamble on shutting down the government, I do think the narrative that he's stalling impeachment will stick. "President Stalls Impeachment with Government Shutdown" is a hell of a headline. But I think Democrats would hold off on any major impeachment proceedings until the government was back open.
The damage Trump would do to himself in a shutdown is worse than whatever progress they could make with tandem impeachment proceedings.
But the Republican strategy for the open hearings also is coming into focus. They plan to zero in on the lack of direct contact with Trump -- and contend that the diplomats' concerns were merely stating their own personal opinions. It's a key argument they'll make with Taylor, who told lawmakers he never met with Trump one-on-one, according to a source familiar with his testimony.
"A lot of that information is based off of second-, third- and even fourth-hand information," said New York Rep. Lee Zeldin, who has been a Republican spokesman following many of the depositions. Zeldin said Taylor's remarks contained "only two references in his opening statement to the Bidens," and that the reference to investigating the Bidens came to Taylor from his conversation with National Security Council staffer Tim Morrison who was told by US Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland.
Sources told CNN that when Republicans questioned Taylor, one of the things they focused on was his relationship with Morrison, who is scheduled to testify behind closed doors Thursday. While Republicans initially tried to cast them as friends, Taylor said he had never met Morrison before they both ended up in these roles, according to one source. They also tried to get at the idea that it would be improper for Morrison to convey to Taylor what Sondland said about his conversation with Trump, but Taylor explained that was Morrison's job.
Taylor did not record any of his phone calls, one source said, but he's been a note-taker his whole life and had extensive notes of his conversation with Sondland, Morrison and Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs George Kent. The items that he quoted in his opening statement were quotes from his notes or from WhatsApp messages, the source said.
This is an amazingly common mob tactic and kind of doesn't matter when what Trump has already admitted to is illegal.
"Sure, all my underlings says I ordered it and the underling I put in charge of that area was pretty explicit about it, but you don't have any record of me explicitly ordering it!"
If only Nixon had known that you needed a recording of him explicitly telling them to break into Watergate!
"I'm increasingly worried that President Trump will want to shut down the government again because of impeachment," Schumer told reporters. "He always likes to create diversions. I hope and pray he won’t want to cause another government shutdown because it might be a diversion away from impeachment."
This is just an offhand quote from Schumer but I could definitely see Trump making this play.
I figured Trump's dipping approval rating & lack of any policy wins during the last shutdown would prevent him from trying it again, but if anyone tells him he can delay impeachment and get it out of the news with a shutdown, we might be beating the 35-day record.
The closer he pushes impeachment toward the 2020 election, the more traction he'll have in claiming it's a political hit job. And he can easily buy himself a month or two vetoing a CR.
"Oh please Mr Trump, don't fling us into the brier-patch."
This is good work by Schumer defining the narrative ahead of time.
I think they're baiting Trump into a shutdown because they probably already have the unions ready to shut down airports, which is what forced Trump to re-open the government last time (rich people need working airports too). So Trump tries a shutdown, quickly gets his ass handed to him and has to concede, and now that card is off the table and Trump's approval is even lower. And if he doesn't concede and the shutdown affects holiday travel? Hoo boy, you might be looking at Trump losing his own base.
"I'm increasingly worried that President Trump will want to shut down the government again because of impeachment," Schumer told reporters. "He always likes to create diversions. I hope and pray he won’t want to cause another government shutdown because it might be a diversion away from impeachment."
This is just an offhand quote from Schumer but I could definitely see Trump making this play.
I figured Trump's dipping approval rating & lack of any policy wins during the last shutdown would prevent him from trying it again, but if anyone tells him he can delay impeachment and get it out of the news with a shutdown, we might be beating the 35-day record.
The closer he pushes impeachment toward the 2020 election, the more traction he'll have in claiming it's a political hit job. And he can easily buy himself a month or two vetoing a CR.
"Oh please Mr Trump, don't fling us into the brier-patch."
This is good work by Schumer defining the narrative ahead of time.
I think they're baiting Trump into a shutdown because they probably already have the unions ready to shut down airports, which is what forced Trump to re-open the government last time (rich people need working airports too). So Trump tries a shutdown, quickly gets his ass handed to him and has to concede, and now that card is off the table and Trump's approval is even lower. And if he doesn't concede and the shutdown affects holiday travel? Hoo boy, you might be looking at Trump losing his own base.
Airports shut down for the holidays in particular.
Congress isn't shut down, but it's bad optics to work on anything other than re-opening the government while it's shut down. "These evil democrats are more concerned with impeaching me than opening the government!", etc
After the house passes a CR, their involvement in getting the government open is done until the other participants do/don't do their part.
Eh, yes and no. If Trump is forcing a shutdown, he's going to claim that the CR is unacceptable for Made-up Reason XYZ and demand the House send him what he wants (which in January was the wall funding, despite the fact that the House had passed a clean CR). Regardless of the truth of the matter, it gives him more ammo if the House turns back to impeachment instead of sticking to the message, "We did our part, we're not doing anything else until the government is open, now you do your part."
If he does gamble on shutting down the government, I do think the narrative that he's stalling impeachment will stick. "President Stalls Impeachment with Government Shutdown" is a hell of a headline. But I think Democrats would hold off on any major impeachment proceedings until the government was back open.
The damage Trump would do to himself in a shutdown is worse than whatever progress they could make with tandem impeachment proceedings.
Just one more thing to add to the Obstruction Pile if he tries it.
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That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
I just wanna shout out to the people posting news articles, summeries, and highlighting the important bits. You're the real MVPs here.
NEWS: Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman told House investigators that a WH meeting and Ukrainian aid was “contingent” on Ukrainian officials carrying out multiple investigations -- including into Burisma, the Bidens, the 2016 election and Crowd Strike, sources tell @LACaldwellDC
and me.
At this point I think nearly everyone has confirmed the quid pro quo.
While this conclusion by Vindman was perhaps the most consequential news to come out of his deposition, the source present tells CNN, some House Republicans seemed more focused on trying to undermine the National Security Council member.
One of the sources present at the deposition describes Rep. Lee Zeldin, R-New York, as asking questions that seemed to suggest that by meeting with Ukrainian government officials, Vindman -- the point person on the White House National Security Council for Ukraine policy -- was perhaps involved in nefarious deeds. Vindman responded that it was his job to meet with those officials as a representative of the US government.
Zeldin also questioned why Vindman had not carried out the President's order to push for the Ukrainians to investigate the Bidens. Vindman said he felt the order was improper, according to that source present at the deposition. Vindman added that he would disregard an improper order from a general, too.
When Zeldin suggested that Vindman felt that way because carrying out the order would not be to the benefit of Ukraine, Vindman said he was not worried about how the move would affect Ukraine, but instead that he felt the order was wrong. He added that it also would not be to the benefit of Ukraine since such a move would undermine the bipartisan nature of American support for that country, but that a strong Ukraine was in America's national security interest.
"That's 100% untrue, and that's why you should be able to watch these depositions live," Zeldin told CNN when asked about the source's description. "That's why you should be able to read the transcrtipts immediately after."
The same source present at the deposition said that Rep. John Ratcliffe, R-Texas, focused on the word "demand" in Vindman's response to Trump bringing up investigating the Bidens in his phone call with Zelensky.
"I did not think it was proper to demand that a foreign government investigate a U.S. citizen, and I was worried about the implications for the U.S. government's support of Ukraine," Vindman wrote in his opening statement.
Ratcliffe asked why Vindman believed it was a demand.
Vindman replied that when the most powerful person in the world asks the President of a country on the brink, such as Ukraine, to do something, he's going to do it.
Two sources present at the deposition tell CNN that Zeldin, Ratcliffe and others asked a number of questions that seemed designed to figure out the identity of the whistleblower.
"Why didn't you do the obviously illegal thing ?" sure is a thing that should not need to be answered.
The GOP trying to figure out the whistleblower's identity is definitely for illegitimate purposes like leaking it, right.
The GOP trying to figure out the whistleblower's identity is definitely for illegitimate purposes like leaking it, right.
Leaking after they've managed to dig up enough dirt for a character assassination, yes. But think at this stage it's very much the latter rather than the former.
Plus so they can fire them.
I'm really hoping Bolton is feeling real spiteful because they didn't let him bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran.
I'd love for a rabid right wing ideologue like Bolton to just nail the Trump admin for being a uhhh well rabid right wing government. But I just doubt he'll do that. I imagine he'll say some token bad trump stuff, and then merrily trumpet the party line and say the real issue are whistle blowers.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
The GOP trying to figure out the whistleblower's identity is definitely for illegitimate purposes like leaking it, right.
Leaking after they've managed to dig up enough dirt for a character assassination, yes. But think at this stage it's very much the latter rather than the former.
Plus so they can fire them.
I'd wager they're trying to figure out the identity of the whistleblower because Trump wants to know, and they want to suck up to Trump. Basically the part of the mob movie where the mob boss says "BRING ME THE HEAD OF THAT DIRTY RAT" and everyone scrambles trying to be the hero.
I'd say Trump in particular wants him so he can get retribution, probably thinking that if he can fuck the whistleblower hard enough, it'll dissuade others from following suit. That we already have a lot of whistleblowers, including apparently Rudy Giuliani's left buttcheek, this is a stupid plan. So it's DEFINITELY what Trump is thinking.
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ElJeffeNot actually a mod.Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPAMod Emeritus
So when does the language from the Trump camp shift from "no quid pro quo!" to "quid pro quo is not a crime!"
I mean, "Get over it" was a couple weeks ago, right?
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
The GOP trying to figure out the whistleblower's identity is definitely for illegitimate purposes like leaking it, right.
Leaking after they've managed to dig up enough dirt for a character assassination, yes. But think at this stage it's very much the latter rather than the former.
Plus so they can fire them.
I'd wager they're trying to figure out the identity of the whistleblower because Trump wants to know, and they want to suck up to Trump. Basically the part of the mob movie where the mob boss says "BRING ME THE HEAD OF THAT DIRTY RAT" and everyone scrambles trying to be the hero.
I'd say Trump in particular wants him so he can get retribution, probably thinking that if he can fuck the whistleblower hard enough, it'll dissuade others from following suit. That we already have a lot of whistleblowers, including apparently Rudy Giuliani's left buttcheek, this is a stupid plan. So it's DEFINITELY what Trump is thinking.
I think Trump is simpler then that and he thinks that if he can discredit the whistleblower somehow (likely by claiming they are a filthy democrat once they have his name) then that invalidates all the things he revealed and all the things everyone else revealed.
It's just the next incarnation of "<insert number here> angry democrats" the right spewed at the Mueller investigation.
I wouldn't be surprised if the lack of a legal fund for WH aides is directly related to the fact that some former and current WH aides have given damaging testimonies already, and the whistleblower's sources were said to be WH aides. Trump probably doesn't trust any of them and wants to punish them as a group. He's not going to wait until after they betray him again to turn on them anymore.
Honestly, impeachment will probably be way more expensive, too. The scope of the Mueller investigation was narrow by comparison, and they didn't really have much interest in having lower level aides testify.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
"I'm increasingly worried that President Trump will want to shut down the government again because of impeachment," Schumer told reporters. "He always likes to create diversions. I hope and pray he won’t want to cause another government shutdown because it might be a diversion away from impeachment."
This is just an offhand quote from Schumer but I could definitely see Trump making this play.
I figured Trump's dipping approval rating & lack of any policy wins during the last shutdown would prevent him from trying it again, but if anyone tells him he can delay impeachment and get it out of the news with a shutdown, we might be beating the 35-day record.
The closer he pushes impeachment toward the 2020 election, the more traction he'll have in claiming it's a political hit job. And he can easily buy himself a month or two vetoing a CR.
"Oh please Mr Trump, don't fling us into the brier-patch."
This is good work by Schumer defining the narrative ahead of time.
Good Lord I am glad I wasn't the only one thinking of this analogy.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Apparently, it's very likely the GOP play is going to be to try to discredit the whole thing as witch hunt and claim that if someone is biased against Trump, that somehow magically makes all the wrong doings excusable. I doubt this is going to work and this seems to indicate that there is something really damning that will come about, that crater the GOP. On the other hand, the GOP has become increasingly stupider as a whole and this could very much be their eagerly inflicting a needless wound upon themselves, aim squarely at their collective crouch. Yes, in this environment, whatever the national leader does is likely to have a trickle down effect on lower offices during elections. That said, if you have a criminal executive, it's much easier to argue you shouldn't be punished for their transgressions because you made a reasonable attempt to stop them. I doubt many people are going to let a republican play that card, when said republican repeatedly goes all in for Trump; especially, when we get stuff like Vindman's testimony.
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besides, the house can just keep sending budgets and what do you know, the only guy holding shit up is trump (and/or mcconnell)
I mean, the last one basically happened because Ann Coulter & other conservative media were mean to him about wall funding.
Stalling impeachment seems like a way bigger incentive for him than that.
"Oh please Mr Trump, don't fling us into the brier-patch."
This is good work by Schumer defining the narrative ahead of time.
You don't think Donald Trump will do the dumb thing?
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Not sure how that'd stop impeachment.
Tough call
He's really really dumb, but he can still chew and walk forward and stuff. Purposely shutting down the government to -avoid- people wanting to impeach him seems .... well, .... maybe he would
It wouldn't.
But Trump probably thinks it would.
And it DOES shut down any requests for information or testimony that would rely on a furloughed federal employee somewhere in the chain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
You'd be kicking out a large portion of support network
Passing a clean CR seems a good way to shift the narrative, since you can say "everything keeps running the same as before, we'll look at changes after impeachment". It's an easy sell to punt.
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Eh, yes and no. If Trump is forcing a shutdown, he's going to claim that the CR is unacceptable for Made-up Reason XYZ and demand the House send him what he wants (which in January was the wall funding, despite the fact that the House had passed a clean CR). Regardless of the truth of the matter, it gives him more ammo if the House turns back to impeachment instead of sticking to the message, "We did our part, we're not doing anything else until the government is open, now you do your part."
If he does gamble on shutting down the government, I do think the narrative that he's stalling impeachment will stick. "President Stalls Impeachment with Government Shutdown" is a hell of a headline. But I think Democrats would hold off on any major impeachment proceedings until the government was back open.
The damage Trump would do to himself in a shutdown is worse than whatever progress they could make with tandem impeachment proceedings.
I think they're baiting Trump into a shutdown because they probably already have the unions ready to shut down airports, which is what forced Trump to re-open the government last time (rich people need working airports too). So Trump tries a shutdown, quickly gets his ass handed to him and has to concede, and now that card is off the table and Trump's approval is even lower. And if he doesn't concede and the shutdown affects holiday travel? Hoo boy, you might be looking at Trump losing his own base.
Airports shut down for the holidays in particular.
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Just one more thing to add to the Obstruction Pile if he tries it.
Uh-oh I accidentally deleted my signature. Uh-oh!!
It's already been going that way. Like most of Trump's recent court filings have basically been "Trump is not subject to these laws."
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https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/10/30/politics/vindman-ukraine-aid-trump-investigations/index.html "Why didn't you do the obviously illegal thing ?" sure is a thing that should not need to be answered.
The GOP trying to figure out the whistleblower's identity is definitely for illegitimate purposes like leaking it, right.
Leaking after they've managed to dig up enough dirt for a character assassination, yes. But think at this stage it's very much the latter rather than the former.
Plus so they can fire them.
I'm really hoping Bolton is feeling real spiteful because they didn't let him bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran.
I mean, he does have a legitimate point that the U.S. abandoning the Kurds also actually strengthens Iran.
I'd love for a rabid right wing ideologue like Bolton to just nail the Trump admin for being a uhhh well rabid right wing government. But I just doubt he'll do that. I imagine he'll say some token bad trump stuff, and then merrily trumpet the party line and say the real issue are whistle blowers.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I'd wager they're trying to figure out the identity of the whistleblower because Trump wants to know, and they want to suck up to Trump. Basically the part of the mob movie where the mob boss says "BRING ME THE HEAD OF THAT DIRTY RAT" and everyone scrambles trying to be the hero.
I'd say Trump in particular wants him so he can get retribution, probably thinking that if he can fuck the whistleblower hard enough, it'll dissuade others from following suit. That we already have a lot of whistleblowers, including apparently Rudy Giuliani's left buttcheek, this is a stupid plan. So it's DEFINITELY what Trump is thinking.
I mean, "Get over it" was a couple weeks ago, right?
I think Trump is simpler then that and he thinks that if he can discredit the whistleblower somehow (likely by claiming they are a filthy democrat once they have his name) then that invalidates all the things he revealed and all the things everyone else revealed.
It's just the next incarnation of "<insert number here> angry democrats" the right spewed at the Mueller investigation.
Honestly, impeachment will probably be way more expensive, too. The scope of the Mueller investigation was narrow by comparison, and they didn't really have much interest in having lower level aides testify.
Good Lord I am glad I wasn't the only one thinking of this analogy.
Also its laughably not true considering Trump is still in office when a majority of regular people would be in fucking jail.
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