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[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] What Rough Beast Slouches Towards Number 10?

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Posts

  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    I saw in the last thread there was some noise in the UK press about how the EU was about to grant the UK a major concession that could forge an agreement. Well, according to RTÉ News, Barnier has shut that right down and says as things stand there’s no possibility of agreement.


  • BethrynBethryn Registered User regular
    The Leavers wouldn't do that right?

    They wouldn't leak a fake option so the EU has to come out and declare it fake, only for their own fake news circuit to paint it as "EU continues to refuse to co-operate?"

    [/sarcasm]

    Desktop HippieChanusJazzscherbchenautono-wally, erotibot300ElldrenFencingsaxH3KnucklesZilla360
  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    edited October 9
    So! Johnson and Trump has a phone call tonight. Can you just imagine how that went? Try not to. It might break your brain.

    Anyway, here is the politics editor of the BBC tweeting No. 10’s version of the call.


    Harry Dunn is the young man who was killed when his motorbike collided with the car of the wife of the US ambassador to the UK. That woman has since returned to the US, refusing to return to be questioned by UK police officers about the accident.

    Now, I don’t want to cross the streams too much here, but I expect most people reading this thread have also been reading the Trump impeachment and US foreign policy threads. So with those threads in your mind... here’s CNN reporter and legendary fact checker Dan Dale with Trump’s version of the call, as described by Trump to an audience at his rally tonight.


    “They’ll be doing certain things for us.”

    What things?
    What did Trump promise to do in return?

    Desktop Hippie on

    zepherin
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    So! Johnson and Trump has a phone call tonight. Can you just imagine how that went? Try not to. It might break your brain.

    Anyway, here is the politics editor of the BBC tweeting No. 10’s version of the call.


    Harry Dunn is the young man who was killed when his motorbike collided with the car of the wife of the US ambassador to the UK. That woman has since returned to the US, refusing to return to be questioned by UK police officers about the accident.

    Now, I don’t want to cross the streams too much here, but I expect most people reading this thread have also been reading the Trump impeachment and US foreign policy threads. So with those threads in your mind... here’s CNN reporter and legendary fact checker Dan Dale with Trump’s version of the call, as described by Trump to an audience at his rally tonight.


    “They’ll be doing certain things for us.”

    What things?
    What did Trump promise to do in return?

    who cares, trump probably forgot immediately after

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
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  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
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  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    I find it difficult to believe that Johnson was really giving it his all when asking Trump for justice for the poor kid, in any case. Call me a cynic but whatever quid pro quo they've worked out, pretty sure that's gonna come low on the list of priorities.

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  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    Stormont cannot have any say over staying in the customs union/single market. It just isn't feasible given that the place hasn't been functioning in over two years and has deep flaws - as demonstrated by DUP abuses of power around the petition of concern and the speaker's position. Then you also have the attitude of the DUP, seen here in their response to the idea of a double majority requirement to leave such an arrangement:



    (Steven Swinford is deputy political editor of the times)

    There's just so much wrong with wilson's statement I don't know where to start. It demonstrates both that they're only interesting in wielding absolute power - dismissing both the majority of people in NI who support remain and the other parties which outnumer them. "Democratic" my ass. The framing also reveals they literally do not care about anyone but their tribe. They can't be allowed any veto over the issue.

    While I'm on the DUP being absolute scum, there's a good article on the guardian referencing the 'soldier F' crap going around:
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/09/dup-soldier-f-protests-arlene-foster-bloody-sunday-murders
    It shows just how extreme the dup are, and it only skims over the top of it. How could anyone possibly support the parachute regiment in the wake of the Saville Inquiry? It's an utter discrace that it was brushed over by media at large and reframed as "just an NI thing". It should have been a much larger scandal, especially given the continued revelations about their actions in inquiries such as the Ballymurphy inquiry. But no, it has been spun into "support the troops" and "just following orders" type crap. The article also doesn't mention the well known link between these banners and loyalist paramilitaries. It's who the dup are in fully in bed with, and have been for quite some time.

    ElldrenH3Knuckles
  • PerduraboPerdurabo Leeds, UKRegistered User regular
    Statement from the discussions today:



    So nothing concrete, but equally the door hasn't been shut on a deal. The line about them both seeing a pathway to a possible deal seems more positive than I would have expected.

  • IlpalaIlpala Just this guy, y'know Texas booniesRegistered User regular
    Definitely good to be "reflecting further on their discussions" and "see a pathway to a possible deal" with *checks watch* three weeks to go.

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    The pattern for the past near three years is the UK government throws out an unworkable plan or makes crazy talk about getting a unicorn deal/crashing out, then they have a nice meeting with the EU and everyone makes nice and says that the talks were fruitful and they're hopeful about reaching a deal... followed shortly by the UK starting up with the crazy talk again. Currency traders must be loving this month, because the pattern is so clear that I swear all they're doing is checking Boris' meeting schedule and buying puts or calls accordingly.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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  • PerduraboPerdurabo Leeds, UKRegistered User regular
    Irish Times are suggesting that the UK has moved on customs.

    Customs down the Irish sea, with there being some mechinism for northern ireland to give or withdraw consent, seems like the landing zone for a revised deal. Would that get through parliament though?

  • PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies Registered User regular
    hard to believe there's anything the EU will concede regarding NI consent

    sig.gif
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    hard to believe there's anything the EU will concede regarding NI consent

    The EU might be OK with a super duper double secret majority requirement to veto or withdraw from the agreement. That won’t fly with the DUP though.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
    CroakerBCKayne Red RobeH3Knuckles
  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    As above, the NI situation is intractable and giving NI a say is always going to be a minefield. For starters, we do not have a functioning local government and regaining one would necessarily involve changes to how it operates. You can't do a straight majority vote on it, as this favours the unionist side (currently at least). If you require cross community support, then you need to decide if it's a vote to stay in or a vote to pull out. One way or the other you're giving control to one community. Personally I'd be much happier with needing cross community support to pull out, particularly as any fool could see the nationalist community are the ones most affected by a potential border, but the DUP would undoubtedly hate that.

    tynicH3Knuckles
  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited October 10
    On the other hand, saying "fuck Ireland, who really cares" is a time honoured tradition, with enough well worn precedent to make even the most activist judge think twice. And it's not like the DUP really mean all that much anymore after Boris's Purge, a Hard Brexit for the UK might get enough backing from Tories who want to come back, and a Labour voters who want it done to override the SNP and Remain Labour + the Lib Dems.

    So maybe custom's union with a NI observer in the EU parliament is the price we pay for Boris to lock in the English Tory vote.

    Tastyfish on
  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    hard to believe there's anything the EU will concede regarding NI consent

    The EU might be OK with a super duper double secret majority requirement to veto or withdraw from the agreement. That won’t fly with the DUP though.

    Yes, but the DUP stopped mattering when the government lost its majority. Johnson doesn’t need to appease them anymore. He needs to appease the opposition parties just enough to squeeze a deal through.


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  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    hard to believe there's anything the EU will concede regarding NI consent

    The EU might be OK with a super duper double secret majority requirement to veto or withdraw from the agreement. That won’t fly with the DUP though.

    Yes, but the DUP stopped mattering when the government lost its majority. Johnson doesn’t need to appease them anymore. He needs to appease the opposition parties just enough to squeeze a deal through.

    A billion dollars for 2 years and 69 days of mindless yes-manning with the occasional glare whenever the PM got out of line, split between ten people.

    Nice work if you can get it

    (Yes I know the money didn't just go to the DUP MPs)

    Rhesus PositiveAntinumericDesktop Hippie
  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Is this some sort of "Only Nixon could go to China" shit with BoJo suddenly repackaging the backstop

    Kayne Red RobeTicaldfjam
  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit I'm a good person yes it's trueRegistered User regular
    The DUP are fully in bed with unionist paramilitaries in much the same way that I often sleep with myself

    fuck gendered marketing
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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    I find it difficult to believe that Johnson was really giving it his all when asking Trump for justice for the poor kid, in any case. Call me a cynic but whatever quid pro quo they've worked out, pretty sure that's gonna come low on the list of priorities.

    Him getting justice for a family that was denied it due to abuse of diplomatic status would be a win and distract from the dumpster fire that has been his government.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
    FencingsaxmonikerH3Knuckles
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    hard to believe there's anything the EU will concede regarding NI consent

    The EU might be OK with a super duper double secret majority requirement to veto or withdraw from the agreement. That won’t fly with the DUP though.

    Yes, but the DUP stopped mattering when the government lost its majority. Johnson doesn’t need to appease them anymore. He needs to appease the opposition parties just enough to squeeze a deal through.

    The DUP don’t matter for a majority since Boris blew that right out of the water, but somehow they’re still hanging around and it seems like their views carry more weight than other’s in Parliament. I don’t quite understand why that’s the case, but that’s the impression I get.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    hard to believe there's anything the EU will concede regarding NI consent

    The EU might be OK with a super duper double secret majority requirement to veto or withdraw from the agreement. That won’t fly with the DUP though.

    Yes, but the DUP stopped mattering when the government lost its majority. Johnson doesn’t need to appease them anymore. He needs to appease the opposition parties just enough to squeeze a deal through.

    The DUP don’t matter for a majority since Boris blew that right out of the water, but somehow they’re still hanging around and it seems like their views carry more weight than other’s in Parliament. I don’t quite understand why that’s the case, but that’s the impression I get.

    Because they're Irish, but not Irish Irish.

  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    They're basically white versions of "I have a black friend and he agrees with me that black people get too upset about white people saying the n-word".

  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited October 11
    daveNYC wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    hard to believe there's anything the EU will concede regarding NI consent

    The EU might be OK with a super duper double secret majority requirement to veto or withdraw from the agreement. That won’t fly with the DUP though.

    Yes, but the DUP stopped mattering when the government lost its majority. Johnson doesn’t need to appease them anymore. He needs to appease the opposition parties just enough to squeeze a deal through.

    The DUP don’t matter for a majority since Boris blew that right out of the water, but somehow they’re still hanging around and it seems like their views carry more weight than other’s in Parliament. I don’t quite understand why that’s the case, but that’s the impression I get.

    Because we have nothing to vote on, and they have kind of hung around. If you were important once, you can kind of floke your way into relevance until something shows you're not.

    Tastyfish on
    Gnome-Interruptus
  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles Jack of all interests... ...master of noneRegistered User regular
    edited October 11
    If I can be forgiven for dragging something from the tail end of the last thread back up; The counterargument to people insisting 'Kraut' isn't racist, would be to ask if it was okay to start calling English people 'Dicks' (sauerkraut, spotted dick).
    altid wrote: »
    As above, the NI situation is intractable and giving NI a say is always going to be a minefield. For starters, we do not have a functioning local government and regaining one would necessarily involve changes to how it operates. You can't do a straight majority vote on it, as this favours the unionist side (currently at least). If you require cross community support, then you need to decide if it's a vote to stay in or a vote to pull out. One way or the other you're giving control to one community. Personally I'd be much happier with needing cross community support to pull out, particularly as any fool could see the nationalist community are the ones most affected by a potential border, but the DUP would undoubtedly hate that.

    I feel like anything important enough to require a super majority to decide should always make the default option be the one that maintains the status quo. That seems like democracy 101 to me.

    H3Knuckles on
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  • AntinumericAntinumeric Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    tynic wrote: »
    I find it difficult to believe that Johnson was really giving it his all when asking Trump for justice for the poor kid, in any case. Call me a cynic but whatever quid pro quo they've worked out, pretty sure that's gonna come low on the list of priorities.

    Him getting justice for a family that was denied it due to abuse of diplomatic status would be a win and distract from the dumpster fire that has been his government.
    Of course getting justice for Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe is impossible.

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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    pre-summit negotation period has begun

    broadly this is going to happen either way because it is a requirement for both sides to appear to have made a credible effort

    it is possible that the cons go for a deal that appeases hard brexiters in parliament but abandons dup in order to send it in to parliament to die so they can show they are trying but default case still nothing comes

    obF2Wuw.png
    CroakerBC
  • Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    Does kraut also mean penis in German? Cos if not I'm not sure that's equivalent.

    Lezta
  • Werewolf2000adWerewolf2000ad Suckers, I know exactly what went wrong. Registered User regular


    My congratulations to the Conservative Party on their victory in the next general election.

    steam_sig.png
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    I wonder if I can put money on Corbyn sticking around after Labour lose the next election...

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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  • PerduraboPerdurabo Leeds, UKRegistered User regular
    Mcdonnell said the same thing before the 2017 election.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    I'm sure it's just a play to try and whip up labour voters.

  • PerduraboPerdurabo Leeds, UKRegistered User regular
    I mean Labour undoubtedly won the 2017 election, so it's churlish to bring it up.

  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 11
    Does kraut also mean penis in German? Cos if not I'm not sure that's equivalent.

    It means cabbage, or herb, depending on context. The english equivalent might be more like 'green stuff' - clearly derogatory, but puzzling.

    tynic on
    Moridin889
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Government faces industry backlash on Brexit plans
    The government is facing an unprecedented backlash from five key industries over Boris Johnson's plans for post-Brexit trading arrangements.

    The aerospace, automotive, chemicals, food and drink and pharmaceutical sectors warn they could pose "serious risk to manufacturing competitiveness".
    You don't fucking say.

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  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    Still waiting to hear all the positives of brexit. There should be plenty of industries beaming over the benefits, right?
    *crickets*

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  • jaziekjaziek Registered User regular
    edited October 11
    Any time you need "positive for business" spin, just get Tim Martin or James Dyson or one of those other loons on.

    jaziek on
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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    The James Dyson who moved his business out of Britain?

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
    H3KnucklesmonikerZilla360
  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    The James Dyson who moved his business out of Britain?

    The James Dyson who announced today that he’s scrapping his entire Electric Car project. Via Sky News


    Insert joke about making a big decision three years ago and changing his mind now here


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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Guys I’m seeing a lot of rumblings bouncing around online that several news outlets will be breaking a major story tomorrow, essentially proving that Russia’s financing of Johnson was much greater than previously estimated, and that Ukrainian born businessesman Alexander Temerko was much more directly involved in the plot to oust Theresa May than was known at the time.

    It might come to nothing, but it’s been growing steadily all day so keep an eye out.


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