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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Enigmedic wrote: »
    theros
    most of those theros cards look completely terrible. Like if they want standard to do anything other than suck, they need to print more than 3 cards in one color per set that can stand on their own legs. draft might be fun, but they should just give up on standard if they arent even going to support it anymore. like why reprint the "not oblivion ring" card when the set has an enchantment theme, and thus people will play enchantment hate, which means the exile white "removal" cards will just end up resetting loyalty or giving more etb effects because no one plays creatures that do nothing.

    although i super hate all things commander, at least someone is going to have fun this upcoming year. It certainly doesnt seem like it's going to be standard players.

    Banishing Light freaking premiered in the last Theros block and it received plenty of play.

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    DaebunzDaebunz Registered User regular
    commander does nothing for me so that entire announcement isnt for me I guess but I suppose I wasnt really the target audience for planeswalker decks and all that other stuff anyway so it doesnt really matter

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    astrobstrdastrobstrd So full of mercy... Registered User regular
    The enchantment block's enchantment hate will make enchantments bad is certainly a take.

    Selling the Scream Podcast: https://anchor.fm/jeremy-donaldson
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    PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Yeah ZestRegistered User regular
    I...do not think Wizards is designing cards for best of 1 formats.

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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    Pinfeldorf wrote: »
    I...do not think Wizards is designing cards for best of 1 formats.

    he memein'

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    MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    edited October 2019
    shakeups for the commander print run this year
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    commander decks replacing planeswalker decks for Ikoria and Zendikar because they found that, despite the higher complexity of the format, commander is becoming the primary onboarding experience for new players

    Ikoria is taking the role of the standard commander decks in the year

    commander legends is a draft set with 20 card boosters, two legendary cards per booster

    commander collection is a from the vault/signature spellbook style product, 8 cards reprinted

    Thanks I Hate It

    Monwyn on
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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    I want to know the prices of these Commander decks and if they're coming with boosters.

    I suspect they'll be more than planeswalker decks and will not.

    So why not do both?

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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    because no one cares about planeswalker decks

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    turtleantturtleant Gunpla Dad is the best.Registered User regular
    I feel like Commander decks have a chance to be worth a damn, or to at least have a good chunk of cards commander folk would want.

    Where Planeswalker decks were like by design terrible and only useful for very beginner level players. And even then they'd probably be better off having a more experienced friend help them brew a budget deck of some kind.

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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    turtleant wrote: »
    I feel like Commander decks have a chance to be worth a damn, or to at least have a good chunk of cards commander folk would want.

    Where Planeswalker decks were like by design terrible and only useful for very beginner level players. And even then they'd probably be better off having a more experienced friend help them brew a budget deck of some kind.

    they mentioned briefly in the article that part of the reason Commander has become a huge onboarding tool is that because it's predominantly a low-key multiplayer format where people build multiple decks, new players can very easily get handed a spare deck and play in a slow experience where people are social and willing to explain things

    "players don't want to buy specific onboarding products, they want to play the same game they see their friends playing"

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    Dr. FlamingoDr. Flamingo 49 Gilded Disc Perceives the Sun Registered User regular
    I'm really hesitant about this commander thing but if it kills Planeswalker decks I'm down.

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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    What's wrong with Planeswalker decks?

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    What's wrong with Planeswalker decks?

    They are purposefully bad.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    SkeithSkeith Registered User regular
    That's a shame, I was going to get my hands on some of the recent decks for a library program to supplement the welcome kit from Wizards.

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    WearingglassesWearingglasses Of the friendly neighborhood variety Registered User regular
    WotC's reasoning is that if they're on the same level as the good stuff, the "Pro Players" might buy all the Planeswalker decks, to the detriment of their actual target demographic ("New Players"). To avoid that, they made Planeswalkers underpowered.

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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    That's not actually a problem though; just print more stock.
    Which leads to the real reason, good stuff has to be rare to sell packs.

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    PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Yeah ZestRegistered User regular
    Having "lower power" boxed product is fine as long as power levels are equal. We still occasionally bust out old Commander precons to jam games with because those games last a while and often involve some star players coming from cards you'd never actually play in a real game.

    Having said that, the Planeswalker decks were tuned to not only be simple, but to be bad, which is not a good combination. Prereleases are what Wizards should be using to target acquiring new players, since it puts everyone on the same general footing.

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    WhippyWhippy Moderator, Admin Emeritus Admin Emeritus
    except prereleases don't serve that function anymore, because everything releases on arena so early. people going to a prerelease or first week fnm are playing in a "solved" format. grognards can jam an endless number of games and crush every new player there

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    KelorKelor Registered User regular
    edited October 2019
    turtleant wrote: »
    I feel like Commander decks have a chance to be worth a damn, or to at least have a good chunk of cards commander folk would want.

    Where Planeswalker decks were like by design terrible and only useful for very beginner level players. And even then they'd probably be better off having a more experienced friend help them brew a budget deck of some kind.

    they mentioned briefly in the article that part of the reason Commander has become a huge onboarding tool is that because it's predominantly a low-key multiplayer format where people build multiple decks, new players can very easily get handed a spare deck and play in a slow experience where people are social and willing to explain things

    "players don't want to buy specific onboarding products, they want to play the same game they see their friends playing"

    I don't know that it's completely replaced kitchen table Magic, but it was coming close to surpassing Standard in popularity so it's not surprising they're looking to cater even more heavily.

    Half the problem is that they're not willing to print format staples either regularly or at low enough rarity that the prices don't sky rocket.

    The Naya token deck in the last round of EDH precons should have had Anointed Procession or Parallel Lives. Instead it had the enchantment that lets you populate one token in your upkeep.

    Both haven't seen printings since their initial one and were previously the "cheap" alternatives to Doubling Season. Either or both would have been extremely welcome.

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    I understand the argument is that they claim not to be aware of the secondary market, and that speculators will buy out the more expensive decks, but just include great reprints in them and continue to print them into oblivion.

    Hopefully if they're going to be printing commander product throughout the year this is the route that they're going to take.

    Kelor on
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    turtleantturtleant Gunpla Dad is the best.Registered User regular
    Do they actually claim to not be aware of the secondary market? Really?

    Cause if so I'd love to here the reasoning behind masters sets and from the vault boxes.

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    KwoaruKwoaru Confident Smirk Flawless Golden PecsRegistered User regular
    Planeswalker decks are awesome and losing them would be a bummer

    Its fun playing with decks that are well designed to be of equal power level while each having a unique theme theyre built around

    Plus all the cards are nice and brand new and have art that all looks like it belongs together which is nice

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    KelorKelor Registered User regular
    turtleant wrote: »
    Do they actually claim to not be aware of the secondary market? Really?

    Cause if so I'd love to here the reasoning behind masters sets and from the vault boxes.

    I believe the reasoning is that if they acknowledged it they would be treading close to gambling.

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    NeveronNeveron HellValleySkyTree SwedenRegistered User regular
    Yeah, if they acknowledge that some cards are worth way more than others then that starts to get dangerously close to acknowledging that booster packs are gambling where you maybe lose, maybe go even, and maybe hit that 100$ Oko jackpot.

    Obviously they still cater to them by not reprinting certain cards - the reserved list wouldn't exist otherwise!

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    VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    I'm really hesitant about this commander thing but if it kills Planeswalker decks I'm down.

    They're not dead. Core Set: Teferi will still have them (and presumably all Core Sets). Which is where they should be, honestly.

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    jgeisjgeis Registered User regular
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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    jgeis wrote: »

    Unless things very quickly coalesce I wouldn't be surprised if there are no banned announcements Monday. If it is it'll probably be one of the big 3-mana planeswalkers and Im going to go on record saying that's probably a mistake. They are receiving a lot of play but right now a lot of it feels like momentum. I don't think they are doing much good work.

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    edited October 2019
    Whippy wrote: »
    except prereleases don't serve that function anymore, because everything releases on arena so early. people going to a prerelease or first week fnm are playing in a "solved" format. grognards can jam an endless number of games and crush every new player there

    Not sure it ever was. If we are talking someone who hasn't ever played a game well if someone had asked me to come to a prerelease back when I was a complete newbie the idea that I would need to build a deck before playing a game would have scared the shit out of me. Buying two remade decks and playing with a friend though? Yeah I could get down with that.

    nightmarenny on
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    KelorKelor Registered User regular
    I started playing late Tempest block/Urza block and back then some people would have printed out spoiler lists from online, while people were going in completely blind.

    It's more equal now with everyone getting the full spoiler in time, but you'll always get some people going above and beyond.

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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    I wonder how good these Commander decks will be since the Planewalker ones are so bad.

    Kitchen Table magic has to be the bulk of new players and players period. So bad decks aren't so bad there.

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    I wonder how good these Commander decks will be since the Planewalker ones are so bad.

    Kitchen Table magic has to be the bulk of new players and players period. So bad decks aren't so bad there.

    They can be as good as they want them to be because Commander is an extremely casual format with cards that don't effect standard at all.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    turtleant wrote: »
    Do they actually claim to not be aware of the secondary market? Really?

    Cause if so I'd love to here the reasoning behind masters sets and from the vault boxes.

    the only thing they care about wrt the secondary market is the potential financial impact of bannings, and that's only a secondary consideration to the gamestate

    they could 100% fix the majority of problems with standard and modern if they at all gave a shit, but they do not as long as products sell

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    The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    God I cannot for the life of me remember everything that's on the board. I keep getting blown out by something as simple as "oh right they have a food sitting there"

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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User, Moderator mod
    God I cannot for the life of me remember everything that's on the board. I keep getting blown out by something as simple as "oh right they have a food sitting there"

    seems magic's a young kremling's game

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    initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    so I'm playing in a pioneer 5k on saturday... that was going to be a cancelled standard event that only had 2 preregistered players, but then they asked if people were interested in this and there's already 100 people for it.

    I'm excited and have no idea what to expect. the 5-0 deck dump is just nonsense proving the age old anything can 5-0 a league maxim. and there's only been one challenge so far so I guess I'm expecting it to look a lot like that challenge format plus I'm sure i'll run into a few people deep on testing their own thing which is just kind of fundamentally cool right now.

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Welp I wanted to build this cool looking Jund standard deck involving aristocrat style tactics and the hungry Troll but Arena makes the rare land glut even worse somehow. I have 5 damn rare wildcards. I have breeding pools and temples of mystery so

    Guess Im gonna become the bad guy. You did this to me arena. I didn't wanna play Oko. You tied my hands.

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    The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    "hmm, the only rare lands I have more than 1 of are 4 Blood Crypts, 2 Watery Graves, and 2 Izzet Temples. Guess I should update my ol' Bolas deck. Hrmm, but then I'm not playing Oko... unless I am?!"

    and that's the story of how I beat a Doom Fortold deck to death with food over the course of 30 minutes, once I finally remembered that yes Assassin's Trophy *can* target Raven's Curse.

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    SkeithSkeith Registered User regular
    I feel like this should go in the OP.

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    The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    Both Innistrads just had the coolest dang utility lands. Wolf's Run, Gavony Township, Moorland Haunt, Geier Reach Sanitarium, Drownyard Temple, Nephalia Academy... hell, I only just found out that's where Cavern of Souls came from!

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    DaebunzDaebunz Registered User regular
    original innistrad had some crazy nonbasics

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    PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Yeah ZestRegistered User regular
    Kessig Wolf Run is the best utility land ever printed.

This discussion has been closed.