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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    Killing copycat is almost as bad a decision as killing Twin was.

    modern was extremely unhealthy when twin was the best deck

    its banning was an absolute net good

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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    And hey while I’m spewing hot takes modern is a bad format and has been for a very long time. People do nothing but complain about it. The best deck is aconstantly obvious and almost always a painful slog. Most of the decks in the format are. Urza, Tron, and deathshadow are all painful to play against.

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/modern#paper

    3 of the top 4 represented decks are combo that are extremely light on opponent interaction, and the other is burn

    EDIT: like, what format do you actually like? because standard has been dominated by teferis and now elks for what? a year?

    legacy and vintage are way less fair than modern

    PiptheFair on
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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    luv 2 burn

    liEt3nH.png
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    milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    And hey while I’m spewing hot takes modern is a bad format and has been for a very long time. People do nothing but complain about it. The best deck is aconstantly obvious and almost always a painful slog. Most of the decks in the format are. Urza, Tron, and deathshadow are all painful to play against.

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/modern#paper

    3 of the top 4 represented decks are combo that are extremely light on opponent interaction, and the other is burn

    EDIT: like, what format do you actually like? because standard has been dominated by teferis and now elks for what? a year?

    legacy and vintage are way less fair than modern

    Is this the part where the thread fights about the definition of "fair" magic and whether Tron is a combo deck?

    I ate an engineer
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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    And hey while I’m spewing hot takes modern is a bad format and has been for a very long time. People do nothing but complain about it. The best deck is aconstantly obvious and almost always a painful slog. Most of the decks in the format are. Urza, Tron, and deathshadow are all painful to play against.

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/modern#paper

    3 of the top 4 represented decks are combo that are extremely light on opponent interaction, and the other is burn

    EDIT: like, what format do you actually like? because standard has been dominated by teferis and now elks for what? a year?

    legacy and vintage are way less fair than modern

    Is this the part where the thread fights about the definition of "fair" magic and whether Tron is a combo deck?

    please god kill me

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    milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    And hey while I’m spewing hot takes modern is a bad format and has been for a very long time. People do nothing but complain about it. The best deck is aconstantly obvious and almost always a painful slog. Most of the decks in the format are. Urza, Tron, and deathshadow are all painful to play against.

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/modern#paper

    3 of the top 4 represented decks are combo that are extremely light on opponent interaction, and the other is burn

    EDIT: like, what format do you actually like? because standard has been dominated by teferis and now elks for what? a year?

    legacy and vintage are way less fair than modern

    Is this the part where the thread fights about the definition of "fair" magic and whether Tron is a combo deck?

    please god kill me

    Guide, bolt, bolt, rift, spike, skewer, G2?

    I ate an engineer
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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    And hey while I’m spewing hot takes modern is a bad format and has been for a very long time. People do nothing but complain about it. The best deck is aconstantly obvious and almost always a painful slog. Most of the decks in the format are. Urza, Tron, and deathshadow are all painful to play against.

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/modern#paper

    3 of the top 4 represented decks are combo that are extremely light on opponent interaction, and the other is burn

    EDIT: like, what format do you actually like? because standard has been dominated by teferis and now elks for what? a year?

    legacy and vintage are way less fair than modern

    Pip I’m confused. I don’t like modern because it’s light on interaction. I am concerned that Pioneer will follow suit. Why did you post a link confirming the things I’m saying? Am I not being clear about my opinion? I’m sometimes bad at communicating through text so sorry if I’m being confusing.

    As for what formats I like I often do like modern. I think it went hard downhill when Deathshadow became a real deck and hasn’t really gotten better. I enjoyed last standard and I think it was fine before Eladrain dropped. Tef shut some strategies down but the overall field was still varied and interesting.

    Quire.jpg
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    NeveronNeveron HellValleySkyTree SwedenRegistered User regular
    Even just in isolation, two cats gives you infinite ETB/LTB triggers. You need a third piece to make that meaningful (Panharmonicon for infinite mana, say, or Altar of the Brood for infinite mill, or Ajani's Welcome for infinite life, Corpse Knight for infinite life loss, Decoction Module for infinite energy...), but even just that is an obvious problem in the making. Usually you need to have at least two different cards to get an infinite loop going.

    Flameshadow Conjuring can also do the same thing as Saheeli (albeit at 3R rather than 1UR), so even if she were banned the cat would live on in its nigh-infinite multitudes.

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    VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    Neveron wrote: »
    Flameshadow Conjuring can also do the same thing as Saheeli (albeit at 3R rather than 1UR), so even if she were banned the cat would live on in its nigh-infinite multitudes.

    You might want to reread Flameshadow Conjuring (a card I admit I had to look up):

    Image.ashx?multiverseid=398547&type=card

    That red mana is huge.

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    The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    hooray, discourse! here is my take:

    interaction is good, decks that force you to interact or lose on the spot are bad

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
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    milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    Vyolynce wrote: »
    Neveron wrote: »
    Flameshadow Conjuring can also do the same thing as Saheeli (albeit at 3R rather than 1UR), so even if she were banned the cat would live on in its nigh-infinite multitudes.

    You might want to reread Flameshadow Conjuring (a card I admit I had to look up):

    Image.ashx?multiverseid=398547&type=card

    That red mana is huge.

    You can flicker a land with cat, so this combo works, but it's way clunkier and doesn't provide any natural value in the way Saheeli does and costs more mana to go off in one turn.

    milski on
    I ate an engineer
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    VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    Oh it also says nontoken.

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    milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    Vyolynce wrote: »
    Oh it also says nontoken.

    With Flameshadow on the field:
    • Cat, flicker targeting mountain above the flameshadow trigger.
    • Untap mountain, pay to create a token copy.
    • Token copy flickers the cat.
    • Cat, flicker targeting mountain above the flameshadow trigger.
    • Repeat indefinitely.

    I ate an engineer
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    VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    Vyolynce wrote: »
    Oh it also says nontoken.

    With Flameshadow on the field:
    • Cat, flicker targeting mountain above the flameshadow trigger.
    • Untap mountain, pay to create a token copy.
    • Token copy flickers the cat.
    • Cat, flicker targeting mountain above the flameshadow trigger.
    • Repeat indefinitely.

    Wow that is indeed convoluted. But the math checks out, so gg.

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    EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    And hey while I’m spewing hot takes modern is a bad format and has been for a very long time. People do nothing but complain about it. The best deck is aconstantly obvious and almost always a painful slog. Most of the decks in the format are. Urza, Tron, and deathshadow are all painful to play against.

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/modern#paper

    3 of the top 4 represented decks are combo that are extremely light on opponent interaction, and the other is burn

    EDIT: like, what format do you actually like? because standard has been dominated by teferis and now elks for what? a year?

    legacy and vintage are way less fair than modern

    Pip I’m confused. I don’t like modern because it’s light on interaction. I am concerned that Pioneer will follow suit. Why did you post a link confirming the things I’m saying? Am I not being clear about my opinion? I’m sometimes bad at communicating through text so sorry if I’m being confusing.

    As for what formats I like I often do like modern. I think it went hard downhill when Deathshadow became a real deck and hasn’t really gotten better. I enjoyed last standard and I think it was fine before Eladrain dropped. Tef shut some strategies down but the overall field was still varied and interesting.

    I've been saying modern is terrible forever, but I also think commander is a terrible format as well. Pioneer will just end up like modern with a couple different decks mostly made of the earlier sets in the format before wotc decided to curbstomp standard cards and then those cards will be hella expensive and the format will be just as hard for people to get into as modern. Standard is generally really good, but playdesign has really dropped the ball recently, amd R&D in general have been failing by giving everything to UG. The fact that UG also has really good mana bases compared to "friendly" colors right now isnt helping. I actually kind of hope they dont reprint the allied scrylands in theros and let mana bases be a bit iffy for a while to slow things down.

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Enigmedic wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    And hey while I’m spewing hot takes modern is a bad format and has been for a very long time. People do nothing but complain about it. The best deck is aconstantly obvious and almost always a painful slog. Most of the decks in the format are. Urza, Tron, and deathshadow are all painful to play against.

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/modern#paper

    3 of the top 4 represented decks are combo that are extremely light on opponent interaction, and the other is burn

    EDIT: like, what format do you actually like? because standard has been dominated by teferis and now elks for what? a year?

    legacy and vintage are way less fair than modern

    Pip I’m confused. I don’t like modern because it’s light on interaction. I am concerned that Pioneer will follow suit. Why did you post a link confirming the things I’m saying? Am I not being clear about my opinion? I’m sometimes bad at communicating through text so sorry if I’m being confusing.

    As for what formats I like I often do like modern. I think it went hard downhill when Deathshadow became a real deck and hasn’t really gotten better. I enjoyed last standard and I think it was fine before Eladrain dropped. Tef shut some strategies down but the overall field was still varied and interesting.

    I've been saying modern is terrible forever, but I also think commander is a terrible format as well. Pioneer will just end up like modern with a couple different decks mostly made of the earlier sets in the format before wotc decided to curbstomp standard cards and then those cards will be hella expensive and the format will be just as hard for people to get into as modern. Standard is generally really good, but playdesign has really dropped the ball recently, amd R&D in general have been failing by giving everything to UG. The fact that UG also has really good mana bases compared to "friendly" colors right now isnt helping. I actually kind of hope they dont reprint the allied scrylands in theros and let mana bases be a bit iffy for a while to slow things down.

    I mean I just don’t think wizards ever did that man. There isn’t a point where they started making worse cards in general. In Pioneer anyway. Like if we look at decks right now there is a good mix of cards from all across the spectrum and all three cards that got banned or relatively recent.

    Quire.jpg
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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    Like looking at that list of four best modern decks here is all the recent standard cards seeing play

    Karn the Creator
    once upon a time
    Castle Garrenbrig
    Field of the dead
    Tireless Tracker
    Ugin the Ineffable
    Skewer the critics
    Leyline of combustion
    Blast zone
    Veil of summer

    That’s just the top four decks and I did a little peaking and cards continue to show up. Assassins trophy, fatal Push...

    Factually speaking a lot of recently standard legal cards are still being played. Heck I didn’t even get to the deck with Oko.

    nightmarenny on
    Quire.jpg
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    initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    https://nerdragegaming.wpengine.com/decklists-archive/pioneer-nrg-ct-november-2019/

    Hey the tournament I was at saturday posted every Pioneer list from the 160 players! I'm in the middle.

    It was dope. I'm sad they're banning so aggressively this early based on what I played vs in this event, but if they say that cat and devotion were dominating the leagues then I just don't have the data to argue otherwise.

    It's certainly left me with a fear, deserved or otherwise, that they'll just ban whatever the best deck each week has been

    initiatefailure on
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    Lord PalingtonLord Palington he.him.his History-loving pal!Registered User regular
    I wouldn't be surprised if some things get unbanned, they're trying to figure out what they want the format to be.

    SrUxdlb.jpg
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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    https://youtu.be/lxez3zNCs3U

    lol mtg clash royale

    liEt3nH.png
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    admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    At lease it's not an MTG auto-battler.

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    The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    hyuk

    xzkhs6d3m52u.png

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    hyuk

    xzkhs6d3m52u.png
    That's really cute but honestly with that name I'd like to see it destroying food tokens. Maybe deal 3 damage to each creature and destroy all food?

    Quire.jpg
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    The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    hyuk

    xzkhs6d3m52u.png
    That's really cute but honestly with that name I'd like to see it destroying food tokens. Maybe deal 3 damage to each creature and destroy all food?

    think of it more along the line of Giant's Skewer and Bake into a Pie

    maybe this could work too, seeing as those are both black cards

    b7djw4aoqf7f.png

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    https://youtu.be/lxez3zNCs3U

    lol mtg clash royale

    So I thought it was weird that the name of the account that posted the video was the same as the name of the game, even though he claims to be "Jason from MTG Arena News". I was additionally suspicious when he said he actually liked clash royale, a game I only know about through youtube ads and have never once before today heard an actual person talk about playing, let alone enjoying.

    So I did some poking around. The youtube channel is pretty new, started posting videos 2 months ago. and it has a dozen videos about the sort of stuff you'd expect - different decks, the field of the dead banning, tournament results, etc.

    It also had a bunch of links to stuff like a twitter account, patreon, discord, etc. as well as an oddly not-linked URL to "mtgarenanews.com"

    The twitter account has 6 followers and 4 tweets, three of them retweets of different MTG folks, and 1 tweet at youtube asking about account monetization (they are told that they don't have enough views for that)
    The patreon has 0 patrons, and minimal content.
    The discord has 13 members which frankly is 12 more than I was expecting.

    And the reason the website URL is mentioned but not linked?
    Cm2tW1Kl.png

    So... yeah. The developer of a probably shitty MTG mobile game set up a fake MTG news youtube to try to astroturf market their game. I'm not watching the full 44 minutes to see if they are up front about this being a marketing video at any point, but I'm going to assume they're not given how hard they're trying to make it look genuine on the surface.

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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    oh hey, this is even sketchier than it appeared at first glance!

    So the URL for the youtube channel is not /MTGArenaNews/ or /ManaStrike/, it's "/TVShowsForKids/, which actually lines up with one of the 6 followers the twitter account has. This channel used to be one of those weird YouTube Kids channels that posts unlicensed videos of Elsa and Spider-Man, and Elsa singing with Spider-Man and so on, which was rebranded into a fake MTG Arena news channel to sell a shitty mobile game. This explains why a channel with 12 videos and 2.5k total views somehow has 217k subscribers, and why the channel is 5 years old despite only having videos going back 2 months.

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    ElbasunuElbasunu Registered User regular
    Fearghaill wrote: »
    oh hey, this is even sketchier than it appeared at first glance!

    So the URL for the youtube channel is not /MTGArenaNews/ or /ManaStrike/, it's "/TVShowsForKids/, which actually lines up with one of the 6 followers the twitter account has. This channel used to be one of those weird YouTube Kids channels that posts unlicensed videos of Elsa and Spider-Man, and Elsa singing with Spider-Man and so on, which was rebranded into a fake MTG Arena news channel to sell a shitty mobile game. This explains why a channel with 12 videos and 2.5k total views somehow has 217k subscribers, and why the channel is 5 years old despite only having videos going back 2 months.

    Fuuuuuuuck thaaaaaaaat. Has anyone yelled at wizards yet?

    g1xfUKU.png?10zfegkyoor3b.png
    Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    I’m at work but I might look at putting together an email of some kind tonight

    I did put in a complaint through Canada’s Ad Standards body because the whole thing stinks to high heaven and dude lives in BC

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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    Oko is banned in Brawl, so... cool?

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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Oko is banned in Brawl, so... cool?

    I'm glad the replies to the tweet seem to be evenly split between "okay now ban him in Standard too" and "okay now let us play Brawl all week instead of just Wednesdays", both things I want

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    VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    Fearghaill wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Oko is banned in Brawl, so... cool?

    I'm glad the replies to the tweet seem to be evenly split between "okay now ban him in Standard too" and "okay now let us play Brawl all week instead of just Wednesdays", both things I want

    This was my favorite:

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    ElbasunuElbasunu Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    3-3 with what I thought was an anazing mono-red deck. Tons of removal, 5 dwarves, gingerbrutes, the rakdos knight who sa's stuff, and a first picked torbahn. Such a downer. I keep telling myself to save my gems for Bo3, but I can't make enough gems to get there.

    Elbasunu on
    g1xfUKU.png?10zfegkyoor3b.png
    Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    It feels really easy to build a completely worthless deck in this format but maybe that’s just my poor drafting skills.

    Quire.jpg
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    admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    It feels really easy to build a completely worthless deck in this format but maybe that’s just my poor drafting skills.

    It does feel like there are a lot of cards that are dogshit on their own but strong in a synergistic deck, but if you whiff on synergies you end up with a mediocre pile.

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    TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    What was that mono-blue guy. Oh you wanna mill me to death huh, and you just spent all your mana so you can't counter anything I'm going to do on my turn? Okay then.

    *drops Sorin, Vengeful Bloodlord, -3 to bring Bloodthirsty Aerialist onto the field untapped, uses last mana for Vicious Rumors and he discards his Ashiok*

    Immediately conceded on the next turn.

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    Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    i went 2/3 with my torbran/embercleave deck a while back. turns out you just can't get through the walls

    i've mostly been successful forcing monoblue but i actually got owned the last time i tried it, and also it's not like fun or good to do

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    WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    I snagged 2 Syr Konrads in a draft the other day. That ruins the Secretkeeper decks day so fast

    Steam! Battlenet:Wisemantobes#1508
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Sliv-Mizzet is fuckin inspired.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    Oh my god the SLIV = NIV flavortext

    I ate an engineer
This discussion has been closed.