Here is a well thought out and sensible sub-class for Rogue for use with D&D 5e.
Rincer of Winds
Panicked Diplomacy
Starting at 3rd level, you can use the bonus action granted by your Cunning Action to make a Charisma (Persuasion or Deception) check. You have disadvantage if you do not share a language, but may still attempt it as if you did.
Legging It
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you can move up to half your speed as a reaction when an enemy ends its turn within 5 feet of you. This movement doesn’t provoke opportunity attacks.
In addition, when you make a running jump, the distance you cover increases by a number of feet equal to your Dexterity modifier.
Just Popping Out...
Starting at 9th level, you have advantage on a Dexterity (Stealth) check if you are attempting to escape from a threat.
Good to Have Around
By 13th level, if you miss with an attack roll, the ally of your choice gains advantage to their next attack and deals +1d4 damage. Once you do so, you can't use this feature again until you finish a short or long rest.
Coward’s Reflexes
When you reach 17th level, you have become adept at laying ambushes and quickly escaping danger. You can take two turns during the first round of any combat. You take your first turn at your normal initiative and your second turn at your initiative minus 10. You can’t use this feature when you are surprised.
I feel that the luggage needs to play a part somewhere.
Hmm isn't it kind of weird theres no Demonic Sorcerer origin? I was thinking of doing a character who I guess is like Raven from Teen Titans, basically dad is a demon who wants to use them as a pawn in some scheme, but my character is like "ha ha no thanks!". Closest is Shadow Magic.
I'm making a Colonist-Doctor for my upcoming Star Wars Edge of Empire game. My initial inspiration was a Doc Holiday type, doctor that can shoot, sort of dissolute/addicted. An outlaw doctor. I'm not sure what kind of group we'll end up with, but if we are some sort of criminal, I think he's a Core World exile due to either a drug habit or something else that got him shunned by his friends/family. Drug use would put him in contact with various criminals, and eventually a crime boss would have need of a doctor's services. For all types of colonist, one of their main hooks is why they are out on the Outer Rim, not back in the places where they could live more comfortably.
However, the Colonist is a natural Face, and I'm thinking about changing my secondary good stat from Agility to Presence and digging into some of the social skills. More of a doctor+leader. With high Intellect I'm also good at Computers and Mechanics, both useful skills. I think the plans are for a combat-heavy character and an Explorer-Navigator type.
Any other good outlaw/criminal doctor inspiration? I know there's gotta be more.
Donald Pleasance in Wake in Fright plays a great doctor/leader/addict. He's barely functional, but provides free medical care to ruffians in the Outback to secure a position in an unhinged community.
Hmm isn't it kind of weird theres no Demonic Sorcerer origin? I was thinking of doing a character who I guess is like Raven from Teen Titans, basically dad is a demon who wants to use them as a pawn in some scheme, but my character is like "ha ha no thanks!". Closest is Shadow Magic.
I'm making a Colonist-Doctor for my upcoming Star Wars Edge of Empire game. My initial inspiration was a Doc Holiday type, doctor that can shoot, sort of dissolute/addicted. An outlaw doctor. I'm not sure what kind of group we'll end up with, but if we are some sort of criminal, I think he's a Core World exile due to either a drug habit or something else that got him shunned by his friends/family. Drug use would put him in contact with various criminals, and eventually a crime boss would have need of a doctor's services. For all types of colonist, one of their main hooks is why they are out on the Outer Rim, not back in the places where they could live more comfortably.
However, the Colonist is a natural Face, and I'm thinking about changing my secondary good stat from Agility to Presence and digging into some of the social skills. More of a doctor+leader. With high Intellect I'm also good at Computers and Mechanics, both useful skills. I think the plans are for a combat-heavy character and an Explorer-Navigator type.
Any other good outlaw/criminal doctor inspiration? I know there's gotta be more.
First thought I had was "Who died under the doctor's care?".
Maybe it was someone he cared for, and this is a self imposed exile as he can't face his old life without that person? Now he's headed rimward, sampling local medications trying to beat down the memories of his past and trading his medical expertise for his next high.
Or maybe it was someone with powerful connections and those connections are blaming him for the tragedy forcing him to run to the Rim for self preservation. Possibly bringing official power to bear if the person was a senator or similarly connected, or bounty hunters and assorted scum and villainy if it was a crime lord. So, he's got the doctoring skill, but worries that using it openly is likely to bring unwanted attention down on him.
Here is a well thought out and sensible sub-class for Rogue for use with D&D 5e.
Rincer of Winds
Panicked Diplomacy
Starting at 3rd level, you can use the bonus action granted by your Cunning Action to make a Charisma (Persuasion or Deception) check. You have disadvantage if you do not share a language, but may still attempt it as if you did.
Legging It
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you can move up to half your speed as a reaction when an enemy ends its turn within 5 feet of you. This movement doesn’t provoke opportunity attacks.
In addition, when you make a running jump, the distance you cover increases by a number of feet equal to your Dexterity modifier.
Just Popping Out...
Starting at 9th level, you have advantage on a Dexterity (Stealth) check if you are attempting to escape from a threat.
Good to Have Around
By 13th level, if you miss with an attack roll, the ally of your choice gains advantage to their next attack and deals +1d4 damage. Once you do so, you can't use this feature again until you finish a short or long rest.
Coward’s Reflexes
When you reach 17th level, you have become adept at laying ambushes and quickly escaping danger. You can take two turns during the first round of any combat. You take your first turn at your normal initiative and your second turn at your initiative minus 10. You can’t use this feature when you are surprised.
I'm not familiar with the character this is based off of, but I would legit try this class.
Here is a well thought out and sensible sub-class for Rogue for use with D&D 5e.
Rincer of Winds
Panicked Diplomacy
Starting at 3rd level, you can use the bonus action granted by your Cunning Action to make a Charisma (Persuasion or Deception) check. You have disadvantage if you do not share a language, but may still attempt it as if you did.
Legging It
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you can move up to half your speed as a reaction when an enemy ends its turn within 5 feet of you. This movement doesn’t provoke opportunity attacks.
In addition, when you make a running jump, the distance you cover increases by a number of feet equal to your Dexterity modifier.
Just Popping Out...
Starting at 9th level, you have advantage on a Dexterity (Stealth) check if you are attempting to escape from a threat.
Good to Have Around
By 13th level, if you miss with an attack roll, the ally of your choice gains advantage to their next attack and deals +1d4 damage. Once you do so, you can't use this feature again until you finish a short or long rest.
Coward’s Reflexes
When you reach 17th level, you have become adept at laying ambushes and quickly escaping danger. You can take two turns during the first round of any combat. You take your first turn at your normal initiative and your second turn at your initiative minus 10. You can’t use this feature when you are surprised.
I feel that the luggage needs to play a part somewhere.
It is a mimic that is also bag(box?) of holding. And your belligerent animal companion.
Here is a well thought out and sensible sub-class for Rogue for use with D&D 5e.
Rincer of Winds
Panicked Diplomacy
Starting at 3rd level, you can use the bonus action granted by your Cunning Action to make a Charisma (Persuasion or Deception) check. You have disadvantage if you do not share a language, but may still attempt it as if you did.
Legging It
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you can move up to half your speed as a reaction when an enemy ends its turn within 5 feet of you. This movement doesn’t provoke opportunity attacks.
In addition, when you make a running jump, the distance you cover increases by a number of feet equal to your Dexterity modifier.
Just Popping Out...
Starting at 9th level, you have advantage on a Dexterity (Stealth) check if you are attempting to escape from a threat.
Good to Have Around
By 13th level, if you miss with an attack roll, the ally of your choice gains advantage to their next attack and deals +1d4 damage. Once you do so, you can't use this feature again until you finish a short or long rest.
Coward’s Reflexes
When you reach 17th level, you have become adept at laying ambushes and quickly escaping danger. You can take two turns during the first round of any combat. You take your first turn at your normal initiative and your second turn at your initiative minus 10. You can’t use this feature when you are surprised.
I feel that the luggage needs to play a part somewhere.
It is a mimic that is also bag(box?) of holding. And your belligerent animal companion.
I disagree that the luggage is a class feature, in fact, I don’t think it’s in any way an owned item either.
But yeah, animated demonic box of holding NPC creature to be sure.
Hmm isn't it kind of weird theres no Demonic Sorcerer origin? I was thinking of doing a character who I guess is like Raven from Teen Titans, basically dad is a demon who wants to use them as a pawn in some scheme, but my character is like "ha ha no thanks!". Closest is Shadow Magic.
What about this subclass from the Middle Finger of Vecna?
Infernal Heritage
You are descended from fiends of the Lower Planes, eternal enemies of light and good. The traits have shown up in your bloodline for generations: hot blood, habitual cruelty, and bone spurs of horns barely visible on the head, but you were born with a stronger connection. You can summon unearthly fire at your fingertips that burns most anything, and you feel the constant urge to scorch those who stand in your way. And, of course, like your ancestors before you, you lust for power and to corrupt the souls of the innocent.
Dark Dealer
At 1st level, you have a devil's silver tongue and sharp wit, which you find is best used to despoil the innocent. You have advantage on any check you make to negotiate the terms of a deal or write a binding contract in your favor.
Hellfire
Infernal flames burn in your blood. At 1st level, whenever you deal damage with a sorcerer spell, you can change the damage type to fire damage. Also, when you deal fire damage, you ignore damage resistance.
Persistent Rebuke
Starting at 6th level, you can use your reaction when you take damage to spend one sorcery point and cast the spell hellish rebuke without expending a spell slot.
Descendant Fiend
By 14th level, you are more like your fiendish ancestors than anyone else in your lineage. You have resistance to fire and cold damage. Additionally, you can use your bonus action to spend 2 sorcery points and gain resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage from nonmagical weapons that aren't silvered until the beginning of your next turn.
True Hellfire
At 18th level, you fire burns hotter than any originating on the mortal planes. When you roll fire damage, you deal an additional point of damage for each die rolled. Additionally, if you deal damage to a creature that is immune to fire damage, it is treated as only having resistance against it. You do not ignore this resistance.
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MrMonroepassed outon the floor nowRegistered Userregular
Maybe I'm misinterpreting that, but "you bypass damage resistance whenever you deal fire damage" seems bonkers powerful
It's worded so that it merely downgrades immunity to resistance, and resistance removal features like the fire adapt feat are not allowed to downgrade that further, that feels fair for a capstone high level feature you'll probably never actually reach anyway.
E: oh wait I didn't see the lower level bit, that one does seem a bit strong.
BahamutZERO on
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StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
It's worded so that it merely downgrades immunity to resistance, and resistance removal features like the fire adapt feat are not allowed to downgrade that further, that feels fair for a capstone high level feature you'll probably never actually reach anyway.
Not that one, we're talking about Hellfire, the first level ability.
Oh yeah that one does seem a bit too much compared to other sorcerer subclasses' features at that level.
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tzeentchlingDoctor of RocksOaklandRegistered Userregular
I mean, it would make sense if you worded it a bit narrower, so that you ignore damage resistance:fire specifically, but not generic damage resistance.
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StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
I mean, it would make sense if you worded it a bit narrower, so that you ignore damage resistance:fire specifically, but not generic damage resistance.
Yeah, this is how I initially read it. I still think that might be too powerful though, but I suppose that depends on the circumstances a bit.
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MrMonroepassed outon the floor nowRegistered Userregular
I mean, it would make sense if you worded it a bit narrower, so that you ignore damage resistance:fire specifically, but not generic damage resistance.
But also you can change all your spell damage to fire, so...
I read it as technically only ignoring fire resistance, because it only activates when you do fire damage, but also you convert everything to fire damage as much as you want for free so it's functionally ignoring all resistances.
It also totally obsoletes the metamagic that changes the element of damage spells for sorcery points.
I mean, it would make sense if you worded it a bit narrower, so that you ignore damage resistance:fire specifically, but not generic damage resistance.
But also you can change all your spell damage to fire, so...
It gives you more things that pierce that one resistance yes, but that's far less useful than making all your things pierce all resistance.
Is it not functionally identical to piercing all resistances? Is there a scenario where convert to fire and ignore fire resist is worse than ignoring the resistance to whatever the native damage type is?
The conversion should probably not be unlimited and free. Tie it to sorcery points or something, or change it to a small bonus to naturally fire spells.
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StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
Is it not functionally identical to piercing all resistances? Is there a scenario where convert to fire and ignore fire resist is worse than ignoring the resistance to whatever the native damage type is?
Yeah I think with the way that 5E works it is, actually.
That feels like an ability that would work better with a different edition, like in 3.X I can come up with all sorts of situations where that would apply. Where like, an enemy has Acid Resist 5 and Fire Resist 15 or whatever.
Is it not functionally identical to piercing all resistances? Is there a scenario where convert to fire and ignore fire resist is worse than ignoring the resistance to whatever the native damage type is?
Converting your damage type to fire mostly doesn't help you if the enemy is resistant to things that are not fire, unless you are changing it away from something it is resistant to. Which is a far more limited scenario assuming you have a wide mix of damage types.
It helps you none against things with general damage resistance.
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StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
Is it not functionally identical to piercing all resistances? Is there a scenario where convert to fire and ignore fire resist is worse than ignoring the resistance to whatever the native damage type is?
Converting your damage type to fire mostly doesn't help you if the enemy is resistant to things that are not fire, unless you are changing it away from something it is resistant to. Which is a far more limited scenario assuming you have a wide mix of damage types.
It helps you none against things with general damage resistance.
Why doesn't that help?
If I want to throw an orb of acid at an enemy that's resistant to acid, and then I change it to fire instead, then I am getting rid of the resistance problem. Especially because I can bypass all fire resistance, so it doesn't even matter if the enemy is also resistant to fire.
The only time that wouldn't help is with an enemy that is immune to fire and resistant to whatever the base damage type is.
I'm making a Colonist-Doctor for my upcoming Star Wars Edge of Empire game. My initial inspiration was a Doc Holiday type, doctor that can shoot, sort of dissolute/addicted. An outlaw doctor. I'm not sure what kind of group we'll end up with, but if we are some sort of criminal, I think he's a Core World exile due to either a drug habit or something else that got him shunned by his friends/family. Drug use would put him in contact with various criminals, and eventually a crime boss would have need of a doctor's services. For all types of colonist, one of their main hooks is why they are out on the Outer Rim, not back in the places where they could live more comfortably.
However, the Colonist is a natural Face, and I'm thinking about changing my secondary good stat from Agility to Presence and digging into some of the social skills. More of a doctor+leader. With high Intellect I'm also good at Computers and Mechanics, both useful skills. I think the other players' plans are for a combat-heavy character and an Explorer-Navigator type.
Any other good outlaw/criminal doctor inspiration? I know there's gotta be more.
My EotE Doctor character idea has always been an assassin droid that decides that killing organics is too easy and becomes a doctor because it's more mentally stimulating to try and keep them alive.
Is it not functionally identical to piercing all resistances? Is there a scenario where convert to fire and ignore fire resist is worse than ignoring the resistance to whatever the native damage type is?
Converting your damage type to fire mostly doesn't help you if the enemy is resistant to things that are not fire, unless you are changing it away from something it is resistant to. Which is a far more limited scenario assuming you have a wide mix of damage types.
It helps you none against things with general damage resistance.
Why doesn't that help?
If I want to throw an orb of acid at an enemy that's resistant to acid, and then I change it to fire instead, then I am getting rid of the resistance problem. Especially because I can bypass all fire resistance, so it doesn't even matter if the enemy is also resistant to fire.
The only time that wouldn't help is with an enemy that is immune to fire and resistant to whatever the base damage type is.
For the first part of the scenario the benefit is tied to the damage type conversion and not at all related to the resistance piercing feature that was being discussed. Converting damage types will always have favorable situations that's the whole point.
The discussion was over whether the ridiculously OP reading (ignore ALL damage resistance when dealing fire damage + free conversion to fire) or the good but less OP version (ignore FIRE resistance when dealing fire damage) was correct. People were claiming they are identical when they are flatly not.
Here are the possible variations on the situations there.
A: The enemy does not have resistance to the spell's damage type.
B: The enemy has resistance to spell's specific (notFire) damage type.
C: The enemy has Fire resistance. The enemy resists All or Magic damage.
A of course doesn't matter in either case.
B on its own is affected by changing the damage type to Fire, not the resistance piercing, so not relevant to either case.
C on its own is equally negated by the resistance piercing cases since fire is included in all. However if the enemy is not resistant to fire you're probably leaving your spell damage as is (or changing it just because oooh fire!). So the piercing is powerful, but not flat out broken when combined with the damage change which was the stated problem.
A and C combined both cases are the same and very powerful.
D only the All piercing case helps you. Fire piercing not at all.
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Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
Here is a well thought out and sensible sub-class for Rogue for use with D&D 5e.
Rincer of Winds
Panicked Diplomacy
Starting at 3rd level, you can use the bonus action granted by your Cunning Action to make a Charisma (Persuasion or Deception) check. You have disadvantage if you do not share a language, but may still attempt it as if you did.
Legging It
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you can move up to half your speed as a reaction when an enemy ends its turn within 5 feet of you. This movement doesn’t provoke opportunity attacks.
In addition, when you make a running jump, the distance you cover increases by a number of feet equal to your Dexterity modifier.
Just Popping Out...
Starting at 9th level, you have advantage on a Dexterity (Stealth) check if you are attempting to escape from a threat.
Good to Have Around
By 13th level, if you miss with an attack roll, the ally of your choice gains advantage to their next attack and deals +1d4 damage. Once you do so, you can't use this feature again until you finish a short or long rest.
Coward’s Reflexes
When you reach 17th level, you have become adept at laying ambushes and quickly escaping danger. You can take two turns during the first round of any combat. You take your first turn at your normal initiative and your second turn at your initiative minus 10. You can’t use this feature when you are surprised.
I feel that the luggage needs to play a part somewhere.
A sentient, mischievous bag of holding.
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
Also I believe the most resisted damage in 5e is fire, so being able to bypass that is huge.
Is it not functionally identical to piercing all resistances? Is there a scenario where convert to fire and ignore fire resist is worse than ignoring the resistance to whatever the native damage type is?
Converting your damage type to fire mostly doesn't help you if the enemy is resistant to things that are not fire, unless you are changing it away from something it is resistant to. Which is a far more limited scenario assuming you have a wide mix of damage types.
It helps you none against things with general damage resistance.
Why doesn't that help?
If I want to throw an orb of acid at an enemy that's resistant to acid, and then I change it to fire instead, then I am getting rid of the resistance problem. Especially because I can bypass all fire resistance, so it doesn't even matter if the enemy is also resistant to fire.
The only time that wouldn't help is with an enemy that is immune to fire and resistant to whatever the base damage type is.
For the first part of the scenario the benefit is tied to the damage type conversion and not at all related to the resistance piercing feature that was being discussed. Converting damage types will always have favorable situations that's the whole point.
The discussion was over whether the ridiculously OP reading (ignore ALL damage resistance when dealing fire damage + free conversion to fire) or the good but less OP version (ignore FIRE resistance when dealing fire damage) was correct. People were claiming they are identical when they are flatly not.
Here are the possible variations on the situations there.
A: The enemy does not have resistance to the spell's damage type.
B: The enemy has resistance to spell's specific (notFire) damage type.
C: The enemy has Fire resistance. The enemy resists All or Magic damage.
A of course doesn't matter in either case.
B on its own is affected by changing the damage type to Fire, not the resistance piercing, so not relevant to either case.
C on its own is equally negated by the resistance piercing cases since fire is included in all. However if the enemy is not resistant to fire you're probably leaving your spell damage as is (or changing it just because oooh fire!). So the piercing is powerful, but not flat out broken when combined with the damage change which was the stated problem.
A and C combined both cases are the same and very powerful.
D only the All piercing case helps you. Fire piercing not at all.
I'm missing the distinction between these two readings, I think.
Or I guess, do you have an example of when D would kick in? I feel like resistances (in the instances that I have seen) are individually laid out, even when enemies are resistant to essentially every damage type. And isn't magic resistance more about saving throws than flat damage reduction?
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
While I didn't write that particular subclass, I would probably revise its Hellfire class ability to look something like this:
Hellfire
Infernal flames burn in your blood. At 1st level, whenever you deal damage with a sorcerer spell, you can spend a sorcery point to change the damage type to fire damage. Also, once per long rest, when you deal fire damage, you ignore damage resistance.
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StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
edited January 2020
Personally I would actually go in a completely different direction with it. Something along the lines of:
Hellfire
Your flames burn with a heat other than that of mundane fires. At 1st level, whenever you deal fire damage with a sorcerer spell, you can spend a sorcery point to change the damage type of the spell for the purposes of bypassing resistances/immunities or exploiting vulnerabilities.
This pushes the subclass strongly towards seeking out fire spells (which I think the original one actually pushes against - it's better to pick non-fire spells and convert them as need be, rather than picking spells that are already fire) but also allows for cool stuff like pitch black flames that burn like frostbite, which feels more infernal to me than just run of the mill pyromania.
If that seems too powerful, I would say have the character choose an element at character creation.
I'm making a Colonist-Doctor for my upcoming Star Wars Edge of Empire game. My initial inspiration was a Doc Holiday type, doctor that can shoot, sort of dissolute/addicted. An outlaw doctor. I'm not sure what kind of group we'll end up with, but if we are some sort of criminal, I think he's a Core World exile due to either a drug habit or something else that got him shunned by his friends/family. Drug use would put him in contact with various criminals, and eventually a crime boss would have need of a doctor's services. For all types of colonist, one of their main hooks is why they are out on the Outer Rim, not back in the places where they could live more comfortably.
However, the Colonist is a natural Face, and I'm thinking about changing my secondary good stat from Agility to Presence and digging into some of the social skills. More of a doctor+leader. With high Intellect I'm also good at Computers and Mechanics, both useful skills. I think the plans are for a combat-heavy character and an Explorer-Navigator type.
Any other good outlaw/criminal doctor inspiration? I know there's gotta be more.
First thought I had was "Who died under the doctor's care?".
Maybe it was someone he cared for, and this is a self imposed exile as he can't face his old life without that person? Now he's headed rimward, sampling local medications trying to beat down the memories of his past and trading his medical expertise for his next high.
Or maybe it was someone with powerful connections and those connections are blaming him for the tragedy forcing him to run to the Rim for self preservation. Possibly bringing official power to bear if the person was a senator or similarly connected, or bounty hunters and assorted scum and villainy if it was a crime lord. So, he's got the doctoring skill, but worries that using it openly is likely to bring unwanted attention down on him.
This is perfect, thank you. I'm sure me and the GM can come up with someone important and tie it in well.
Is it not functionally identical to piercing all resistances? Is there a scenario where convert to fire and ignore fire resist is worse than ignoring the resistance to whatever the native damage type is?
Converting your damage type to fire mostly doesn't help you if the enemy is resistant to things that are not fire, unless you are changing it away from something it is resistant to. Which is a far more limited scenario assuming you have a wide mix of damage types.
It helps you none against things with general damage resistance.
Why doesn't that help?
If I want to throw an orb of acid at an enemy that's resistant to acid, and then I change it to fire instead, then I am getting rid of the resistance problem. Especially because I can bypass all fire resistance, so it doesn't even matter if the enemy is also resistant to fire.
The only time that wouldn't help is with an enemy that is immune to fire and resistant to whatever the base damage type is.
For the first part of the scenario the benefit is tied to the damage type conversion and not at all related to the resistance piercing feature that was being discussed. Converting damage types will always have favorable situations that's the whole point.
The discussion was over whether the ridiculously OP reading (ignore ALL damage resistance when dealing fire damage + free conversion to fire) or the good but less OP version (ignore FIRE resistance when dealing fire damage) was correct. People were claiming they are identical when they are flatly not.
Here are the possible variations on the situations there.
A: The enemy does not have resistance to the spell's damage type.
B: The enemy has resistance to spell's specific (notFire) damage type.
C: The enemy has Fire resistance. The enemy resists All or Magic damage.
A of course doesn't matter in either case.
B on its own is affected by changing the damage type to Fire, not the resistance piercing, so not relevant to either case.
C on its own is equally negated by the resistance piercing cases since fire is included in all. However if the enemy is not resistant to fire you're probably leaving your spell damage as is (or changing it just because oooh fire!). So the piercing is powerful, but not flat out broken when combined with the damage change which was the stated problem.
A and C combined both cases are the same and very powerful.
D only the All piercing case helps you. Fire piercing not at all.
I'm missing the distinction between these two readings, I think.
Or I guess, do you have an example of when D would kick in? I feel like resistances (in the instances that I have seen) are individually laid out, even when enemies are resistant to essentially every damage type. And isn't magic resistance more about saving throws than flat damage reduction?
Possibly. I've never read the 5e monster manual, or even encountered much of anything with damage resistances since all games die at level 6 so maybe untyped damage resistance isn't a thing. There is a very real logical distinction that may not exist in practice.
+N Soak X, where N is the magical enhancement level up to which the universal damage resistance functions, and X is the value of the resistance. You know, just super basic information that makes total sense at face value, Gygax.
+N Soak X, where N is the magical enhancement level up to which the universal damage resistance functions, and X is the value of the resistance. You know, just super basic information that makes total sense at face value, Gygax.
This is 3.X's damage reduction mechanic.
Damage Reduction 25/+3, for a 3.0 example, or 15/adamantine for a 3.5 example.
5E's is simpler. You either have resistance or you don't. If you have resistance, you take half damage.
Monsters might have, for example, resistance to fire damage, or resistance to damage from nonmagical weapons.
(AD&D's is also simpler; +X to hit. You either do normal damage with a sufficiently magical weapon, or you do zero damage.)
On the topic of the hellfire ability: The Elemental Adept feat lets you ignore resistance with your chosen element, as well as treating 1's rolled on damage dice for the chosen element as 2's. So "ignore resistance with type" isn't an impossible ability to give characters. I don't think I'd want to give permanent fire resistance ignore from level 1, however, and I don't really like changing damage type for it to be at-will either.
I'd probably be more inclined to make it something more like the Draconic sorcerer's level 6 feature; add +Cha mod to damage when you cast a spell that deals fire damage.
tzeentchlingDoctor of RocksOaklandRegistered Userregular
My thought is, and I don't remember if this is how 5e works, if a monster has a stat block that says
"Damage Resistances: fire"
then the ability bypasses this resistance.
If the statblock says
"Damage Resistances: spells" or "Damage Resistances: all" or something similar
then the ability does not bypass the resistance. You can specifically ignore fire resistance, but not blanket resistance.
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StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
My thought is, and I don't remember if this is how 5e works, if a monster has a stat block that says
"Damage Resistances: fire"
then the ability bypasses this resistance.
If the statblock says
"Damage Resistances: spells" or "Damage Resistances: all" or something similar
then the ability does not bypass the resistance. You can specifically ignore fire resistance, but not blanket resistance.
I don't know that there are any examples of the latter, is the thing.
"Damage Resistances: All" seems to still get individually broken down into each separate type of damage, and I don't believe that "Damage Resistances: Spells" exists - you'll instead see something like the Iron Golem's magic resistance, which gives them advantage on saving throws.
Which means the ability would be able to bypass any resistance still.
Posts
I feel that the luggage needs to play a part somewhere.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
Donald Pleasance in Wake in Fright plays a great doctor/leader/addict. He's barely functional, but provides free medical care to ruffians in the Outback to secure a position in an unhinged community.
These days, that's a Warlock
First thought I had was "Who died under the doctor's care?".
Maybe it was someone he cared for, and this is a self imposed exile as he can't face his old life without that person? Now he's headed rimward, sampling local medications trying to beat down the memories of his past and trading his medical expertise for his next high.
Or maybe it was someone with powerful connections and those connections are blaming him for the tragedy forcing him to run to the Rim for self preservation. Possibly bringing official power to bear if the person was a senator or similarly connected, or bounty hunters and assorted scum and villainy if it was a crime lord. So, he's got the doctoring skill, but worries that using it openly is likely to bring unwanted attention down on him.
It is a mimic that is also bag(box?) of holding. And your belligerent animal companion.
I disagree that the luggage is a class feature, in fact, I don’t think it’s in any way an owned item either.
But yeah, animated demonic box of holding NPC creature to be sure.
It's like taking a nemesis in Vampire.
What about this subclass from the Middle Finger of Vecna?
Especially with the ability to change any damage type to fire.
E: oh wait I didn't see the lower level bit, that one does seem a bit strong.
Not that one, we're talking about Hellfire, the first level ability.
Yeah, this is how I initially read it. I still think that might be too powerful though, but I suppose that depends on the circumstances a bit.
But also you can change all your spell damage to fire, so...
It also totally obsoletes the metamagic that changes the element of damage spells for sorcery points.
It gives you more things that pierce that one resistance yes, but that's far less useful than making all your things pierce all resistance.
Maybe if it was converting only a specific damage type to fire. Either one that's baked into the class or chosen by the player.
Yeah I think with the way that 5E works it is, actually.
That feels like an ability that would work better with a different edition, like in 3.X I can come up with all sorts of situations where that would apply. Where like, an enemy has Acid Resist 5 and Fire Resist 15 or whatever.
Converting your damage type to fire mostly doesn't help you if the enemy is resistant to things that are not fire, unless you are changing it away from something it is resistant to. Which is a far more limited scenario assuming you have a wide mix of damage types.
It helps you none against things with general damage resistance.
Why doesn't that help?
If I want to throw an orb of acid at an enemy that's resistant to acid, and then I change it to fire instead, then I am getting rid of the resistance problem. Especially because I can bypass all fire resistance, so it doesn't even matter if the enemy is also resistant to fire.
The only time that wouldn't help is with an enemy that is immune to fire and resistant to whatever the base damage type is.
My EotE Doctor character idea has always been an assassin droid that decides that killing organics is too easy and becomes a doctor because it's more mentally stimulating to try and keep them alive.
For the first part of the scenario the benefit is tied to the damage type conversion and not at all related to the resistance piercing feature that was being discussed. Converting damage types will always have favorable situations that's the whole point.
The discussion was over whether the ridiculously OP reading (ignore ALL damage resistance when dealing fire damage + free conversion to fire) or the good but less OP version (ignore FIRE resistance when dealing fire damage) was correct. People were claiming they are identical when they are flatly not.
Here are the possible variations on the situations there.
A: The enemy does not have resistance to the spell's damage type.
B: The enemy has resistance to spell's specific (notFire) damage type.
C: The enemy has Fire resistance.
A of course doesn't matter in either case.
B on its own is affected by changing the damage type to Fire, not the resistance piercing, so not relevant to either case.
C on its own is equally negated by the resistance piercing cases since fire is included in all. However if the enemy is not resistant to fire you're probably leaving your spell damage as is (or changing it just because oooh fire!). So the piercing is powerful, but not flat out broken when combined with the damage change which was the stated problem.
A and C combined both cases are the same and very powerful.
D only the All piercing case helps you. Fire piercing not at all.
A sentient, mischievous bag of holding.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
I'm missing the distinction between these two readings, I think.
Or I guess, do you have an example of when D would kick in? I feel like resistances (in the instances that I have seen) are individually laid out, even when enemies are resistant to essentially every damage type. And isn't magic resistance more about saving throws than flat damage reduction?
Hellfire
Infernal flames burn in your blood. At 1st level, whenever you deal damage with a sorcerer spell, you can spend a sorcery point to change the damage type to fire damage. Also, once per long rest, when you deal fire damage, you ignore damage resistance.
Hellfire
Your flames burn with a heat other than that of mundane fires. At 1st level, whenever you deal fire damage with a sorcerer spell, you can spend a sorcery point to change the damage type of the spell for the purposes of bypassing resistances/immunities or exploiting vulnerabilities.
This pushes the subclass strongly towards seeking out fire spells (which I think the original one actually pushes against - it's better to pick non-fire spells and convert them as need be, rather than picking spells that are already fire) but also allows for cool stuff like pitch black flames that burn like frostbite, which feels more infernal to me than just run of the mill pyromania.
If that seems too powerful, I would say have the character choose an element at character creation.
This is perfect, thank you. I'm sure me and the GM can come up with someone important and tie it in well.
Possibly. I've never read the 5e monster manual, or even encountered much of anything with damage resistances since all games die at level 6 so maybe untyped damage resistance isn't a thing. There is a very real logical distinction that may not exist in practice.
+N Soak X, where N is the magical enhancement level up to which the universal damage resistance functions, and X is the value of the resistance. You know, just super basic information that makes total sense at face value, Gygax.
This is 3.X's damage reduction mechanic.
Damage Reduction 25/+3, for a 3.0 example, or 15/adamantine for a 3.5 example.
5E's is simpler. You either have resistance or you don't. If you have resistance, you take half damage.
Monsters might have, for example, resistance to fire damage, or resistance to damage from nonmagical weapons.
(AD&D's is also simpler; +X to hit. You either do normal damage with a sufficiently magical weapon, or you do zero damage.)
On the topic of the hellfire ability: The Elemental Adept feat lets you ignore resistance with your chosen element, as well as treating 1's rolled on damage dice for the chosen element as 2's. So "ignore resistance with type" isn't an impossible ability to give characters. I don't think I'd want to give permanent fire resistance ignore from level 1, however, and I don't really like changing damage type for it to be at-will either.
I'd probably be more inclined to make it something more like the Draconic sorcerer's level 6 feature; add +Cha mod to damage when you cast a spell that deals fire damage.
DIESEL
Against the Fall of Night Playtest
Nasty, Brutish, and Short
"Damage Resistances: fire"
then the ability bypasses this resistance.
If the statblock says
"Damage Resistances: spells" or "Damage Resistances: all" or something similar
then the ability does not bypass the resistance. You can specifically ignore fire resistance, but not blanket resistance.
I don't know that there are any examples of the latter, is the thing.
"Damage Resistances: All" seems to still get individually broken down into each separate type of damage, and I don't believe that "Damage Resistances: Spells" exists - you'll instead see something like the Iron Golem's magic resistance, which gives them advantage on saving throws.
Which means the ability would be able to bypass any resistance still.