"The dead speak" is actually a good hook for the first movie.
There has been peace in the galaxy, but a mysterious transmission from the late Emperor Palpatine is being broadcast from the unknown regions of the galaxy. He speaks a First Order and calls those still loyal to come to him.
Leia is determined to defeat this mysterious Imperial remnant but is afraid to challenge it without the aid of her brother, Luke Skywalker, who has been missing on a journey of self discovery since the fall of new Jedi Academy. She has sent her finest pilot, Poe Dameron, to find her brother and see if the two events are related.
And then it's all one thing.
ROS really feels like they tried to start and finish a whole new trilogy in the final film, rather then closing out the trilogy that they'd already started making.
Also that idea works way better then what we got, just in general.
Yeah, TFA could play out basically the same too, which was my intent with how easy it would have been to make ROS intentional just by spending four minutes on setting it up in each movie. You wouldn't even have to ADD four minutes, just change four minutes of it. Poe gets the information from old man, while he simultaneously learns that the First Order is an Imperial remnant back in a big big way. Finn escapes and is able to give more insight into the First Order's existence and MO. The rest of the movie can be basically the same.
TLJ could play out the same and maybe just adding some ominous hinting in the throne room scene about a greater Sith menace or how the rule of two is no more.
And then you could slow roll a lot of stuff in ROS.
My reaction to "THE DEAD SPEAK!" in a universe where ghosts regularly appear to give lectures is.... So what? This is not news.
This is what makes the problem so glaring. We already know about Force ghosts. And there is always the old fallback of history books/holocrons and old untransmitted messages and all that jazz, especially given the technology level of the Star Wars universe.
Instead it's just thrown in front of us like...ok? That's a premise? And then literally does none of the work to establish why this is meaningful or why we should care - we're just told that it happens and here's the consequences and OFF WE GO! It would've been better if it was just an old Palpatine holocron pointing to a lost fleet or something because it would've avoided the ridiculousness of Palpatine's existence, but the core problems with the initial premise and its execution would still be there because we have no reason to give a shit about it from the start and we're thrown mid-stream into a literal desert of nothingness.
Funny thing is that the EU had a lost fleet plotline(even comprised of ship types and equipment that were themselves still canon in the Disneyverse) they could have just stolen from and they still went for a dumber version.
The Emperor is really....Vader's father. He is also a Skywalker. Palpatine is not his true name! He died on the second Death Star over the Forest Moon of Endor.
Dark technology have enabled him to return, but he is not yet returned! His minions have overthrown Kylo via Hux and are working to resurrect him. The Resistance has 16 hours (because distance means nothing in Star Wars anymore) to stop him and his loyal followers. Kylo, a Solo (or Organa at best / worst), is forced to work with the Resistance to prevent the....
Wait for it....
Rise of Skywalker
I know, it's terrible.
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Maybe the title should be updated so people know that the thread is now open spoilers.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Just the number of things that could have been improved by a throwaway line of dialogue that would later turn out to explain something is staggering. Just a simple "we don't know how the First Order is building all these ships" and then you find out that Palpatine and his other buddies are just cranking 'em out on this secret planet and it becomes an earned thing instead of totally out of your ass.
Or maybe there is no Palpatine, or there never was an actual Palpatine. It's just a cabal of evil Sith and there are like actors and body doubles or illusions but it's just a role and it's all just Space Hydra. Or it's just some pathetic edgelord who looks up to the Sith and it's a Wizard of Oz thing where Palpy is still dead and he's just trying to operate the remnants of the Empire like a zombie marionette, and then Kylo Ren looks at him and says "wait this is what I did all of that for?"
I still think it would be better if the ST had almost nothing to do with the OT and was about new stories of new heroes in a galaxy of possibilities but if it has to be chained to the OT/Skywalkers it could have at least been good.
In what amounts to the most shocking twist in Star Wars history, Colin Trevorrow’s script for Episode IX was better than the version J.J. Abrams gave us—on paper, at least. A breakdown of the script, co-written by Trevorrow and Derek Connolly, appeared overnight in r/StarWarsLeaks, which has a surprisingly sound track record with regard to, well, Star Wars leaks. (Major plot points from The Rise Of Skywalker, along with a pair of screenshots from the film’s climax, appeared in the subreddit months prior to its release.) While neither Disney nor Trevorrow have commented on the leak, we’ve spoken with another source who was able to independently confirm the legitimacy of the Trevorrow/Connolly script.
They aren't wrong, on paper at least that plot sounds 10x better than Rise
There are a lot of scenes in mentioned that I don't like or think would play well, but the overall meta plot of Rey and Kylo's mirroring journeys sounds great, I love that type of stuff.
Yeah, the bones of it is pretty solid and it actually reads like it's trying to be a follow up to TFA/TLJ and a conclusion to the actual ST as it exists in those films instead of some whole new bullshit.
Except that conclusion is that the last of the Skywalkers dies, unredeemed, having learned nothing, but only after ensuring his bloodline dies off completely.
Yeah wow, that just soooo captures the spirit of Star Wars we all love...
No.
This script seems better paced and less frenetic than what we got, but I absolutely hate what it does with Kylo/Rey.
Since when is Star Wars about the pride of the Skywalker bloodline?
The OT ain't about that. Neither TFA or TLJ are about either. In the PT there isn't even a Skywalker bloodline to speak of, since there's literally only one guy.
No, it's about redemption, as told through the particular lens of one family. So yeah, I'm still going to go with having the 9 movie series end with the last generation of that family dying unredeemed after falling to the dark side then doubling tripling down on that folly kinda undermines the whole point of everything before it. If that's your grand vision for a Sequel Trilogy, count me out...
Since when is it told through the lens of one family?
Han isn't a Skywalker, Leia only get shoehorned in as one in ROTJ and it informs nothing about her story and she has no redemption arc.
The entire idea that Star Wars is about the redemption story of the Skywalker family is a bunch of post-hoc bullshit.
Or, it's exactly how its creator characterizes it...
Yeah, I made a series of movies that was about one thing: Darth Vader. Originally, people thought it was all about Luke. The early films are about Luke redeeming his father, so Luke’s the focus. But it’s also about Princess Leia and her struggle to reestablish the Republic, which is what her mother was doing. So it’s really about mothers and daughters and fathers and sons.
The Skywalker family is the vehicle through which the redemption story is told. Vader still informs everything about Kylo Ren, even extending into this supposed new alternate script that Lucas had nothing to do with.
I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for thinking having the last Skywalker's final takeaway from Vader's redemption arc being "You allowed love to cloud your judgement" and go all-in on the Dark Side, then get murdered, is an intensely shitty way to end the "saga", the story of their family, whatever you want to call it. I mean, if you're just rooting for nihilism and subversive messaging in SW because it's "unexpected" or whatever, fine. But like I said, count me out.
In what amounts to the most shocking twist in Star Wars history, Colin Trevorrow’s script for Episode IX was better than the version J.J. Abrams gave us—on paper, at least. A breakdown of the script, co-written by Trevorrow and Derek Connolly, appeared overnight in r/StarWarsLeaks, which has a surprisingly sound track record with regard to, well, Star Wars leaks. (Major plot points from The Rise Of Skywalker, along with a pair of screenshots from the film’s climax, appeared in the subreddit months prior to its release.) While neither Disney nor Trevorrow have commented on the leak, we’ve spoken with another source who was able to independently confirm the legitimacy of the Trevorrow/Connolly script.
They aren't wrong, on paper at least that plot sounds 10x better than Rise
There are a lot of scenes in mentioned that I don't like or think would play well, but the overall meta plot of Rey and Kylo's mirroring journeys sounds great, I love that type of stuff.
Yeah, the bones of it is pretty solid and it actually reads like it's trying to be a follow up to TFA/TLJ and a conclusion to the actual ST as it exists in those films instead of some whole new bullshit.
Except that conclusion is that the last of the Skywalkers dies, unredeemed, having learned nothing, but only after ensuring his bloodline dies off completely.
Yeah wow, that just soooo captures the spirit of Star Wars we all love...
No.
This script seems better paced and less frenetic than what we got, but I absolutely hate what it does with Kylo/Rey.
Since when is Star Wars about the pride of the Skywalker bloodline?
The OT ain't about that. Neither TFA or TLJ are about either. In the PT there isn't even a Skywalker bloodline to speak of, since there's literally only one guy.
No, it's about redemption, as told through the particular lens of one family. So yeah, I'm still going to go with having the 9 movie series end with the last generation of that family dying unredeemed after falling to the dark side then doubling tripling down on that folly kinda undermines the whole point of everything before it. If that's your grand vision for a Sequel Trilogy, count me out...
Since when is it told through the lens of one family?
Han isn't a Skywalker, Leia only get shoehorned in as one in ROTJ and it informs nothing about her story and she has no redemption arc.
The entire idea that Star Wars is about the redemption story of the Skywalker family is a bunch of post-hoc bullshit.
Or, it's exactly how its creator characterizes it...
Yeah, I made a series of movies that was about one thing: Darth Vader. Originally, people thought it was all about Luke. The early films are about Luke redeeming his father, so Luke’s the focus. But it’s also about Princess Leia and her struggle to reestablish the Republic, which is what her mother was doing. So it’s really about mothers and daughters and fathers and sons.
The Skywalker family is the vehicle through which the redemption story is told. Vader still informs everything about Kylo Ren, even extending into this supposed new alternate script that Lucas had nothing to do with.
I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for thinking having the last Skywalker's final takeaway from Vader's redemption arc being "You allowed love to cloud your judgement" and go all-in on the Dark Side, then get murdered, is an intensely shitty way to end the "saga", the story of their family, whatever you want to call it. I mean, if you're just rooting for nihilism and subversive messaging in SW because it's "unexpected" or whatever, fine. But like I said, count me out.
That doesn't make sense at all. Nothing about the script that started this or the idea of Kylo Ren not being redeemed in the end is nihilistic.
Star Wars is not The Tale of the Skywalkers, nor it is about only redemption arcs for Skywalkers or whatever else you seem to have in mind.
Like, Vader's redemption is a thing for only the 3rd film of the OT and it's entirely about the fact that he's one of our main character's dad. A main character who's name is basically meaningless in the trilogy. It's just some name.
And Leia and Han are off having adventures that have nothing to do with that even in ROTJ.
Like seriously, that Lucas quote is full of shit. Luke wasn't even supposed to be Vader's son in the first film.
In what amounts to the most shocking twist in Star Wars history, Colin Trevorrow’s script for Episode IX was better than the version J.J. Abrams gave us—on paper, at least. A breakdown of the script, co-written by Trevorrow and Derek Connolly, appeared overnight in r/StarWarsLeaks, which has a surprisingly sound track record with regard to, well, Star Wars leaks. (Major plot points from The Rise Of Skywalker, along with a pair of screenshots from the film’s climax, appeared in the subreddit months prior to its release.) While neither Disney nor Trevorrow have commented on the leak, we’ve spoken with another source who was able to independently confirm the legitimacy of the Trevorrow/Connolly script.
They aren't wrong, on paper at least that plot sounds 10x better than Rise
There are a lot of scenes in mentioned that I don't like or think would play well, but the overall meta plot of Rey and Kylo's mirroring journeys sounds great, I love that type of stuff.
Yeah, the bones of it is pretty solid and it actually reads like it's trying to be a follow up to TFA/TLJ and a conclusion to the actual ST as it exists in those films instead of some whole new bullshit.
Except that conclusion is that the last of the Skywalkers dies, unredeemed, having learned nothing, but only after ensuring his bloodline dies off completely.
Yeah wow, that just soooo captures the spirit of Star Wars we all love...
No.
This script seems better paced and less frenetic than what we got, but I absolutely hate what it does with Kylo/Rey.
Since when is Star Wars about the pride of the Skywalker bloodline?
The OT ain't about that. Neither TFA or TLJ are about either. In the PT there isn't even a Skywalker bloodline to speak of, since there's literally only one guy.
No, it's about redemption, as told through the particular lens of one family. So yeah, I'm still going to go with having the 9 movie series end with the last generation of that family dying unredeemed after falling to the dark side then doubling tripling down on that folly kinda undermines the whole point of everything before it. If that's your grand vision for a Sequel Trilogy, count me out...
Since when is it told through the lens of one family?
Han isn't a Skywalker, Leia only get shoehorned in as one in ROTJ and it informs nothing about her story and she has no redemption arc.
The entire idea that Star Wars is about the redemption story of the Skywalker family is a bunch of post-hoc bullshit.
Or, it's exactly how its creator characterizes it...
Yeah, I made a series of movies that was about one thing: Darth Vader. Originally, people thought it was all about Luke. The early films are about Luke redeeming his father, so Luke’s the focus. But it’s also about Princess Leia and her struggle to reestablish the Republic, which is what her mother was doing. So it’s really about mothers and daughters and fathers and sons.
The Skywalker family is the vehicle through which the redemption story is told. Vader still informs everything about Kylo Ren, even extending into this supposed new alternate script that Lucas had nothing to do with.
I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for thinking having the last Skywalker's final takeaway from Vader's redemption arc being "You allowed love to cloud your judgement" and go all-in on the Dark Side, then get murdered, is an intensely shitty way to end the "saga", the story of their family, whatever you want to call it. I mean, if you're just rooting for nihilism and subversive messaging in SW because it's "unexpected" or whatever, fine. But like I said, count me out.
That doesn't make sense at all. Nothing about the script that started this or the idea of Kylo Ren not being redeemed in the end is nihilistic.
Star Wars is not The Tale of the Skywalkers, nor it is about only redemption arcs for Skywalkers or whatever else you seem to have in mind.
Like, Vader's redemption is a thing for only the 3rd film of the OT and it's entirely about the fact that he's one of our main character's dad. A main character who's name is basically meaningless in the trilogy. It's just some name.
And Leia and Han are off having adventures that have nothing to do with that even in ROTJ.
Like seriously, that Lucas quote is full of shit. Luke wasn't even supposed to be Vader's son in the first film.
I think Lucas probably believes he always had a grand plan. This is a man who significantly altered films and said "I'm sorry if people feel bad about it but they are MY films". But Vader being a slightly higher mook in A New Hope doesn't mesh with there being a grand plan.
In what amounts to the most shocking twist in Star Wars history, Colin Trevorrow’s script for Episode IX was better than the version J.J. Abrams gave us—on paper, at least. A breakdown of the script, co-written by Trevorrow and Derek Connolly, appeared overnight in r/StarWarsLeaks, which has a surprisingly sound track record with regard to, well, Star Wars leaks. (Major plot points from The Rise Of Skywalker, along with a pair of screenshots from the film’s climax, appeared in the subreddit months prior to its release.) While neither Disney nor Trevorrow have commented on the leak, we’ve spoken with another source who was able to independently confirm the legitimacy of the Trevorrow/Connolly script.
They aren't wrong, on paper at least that plot sounds 10x better than Rise
There are a lot of scenes in mentioned that I don't like or think would play well, but the overall meta plot of Rey and Kylo's mirroring journeys sounds great, I love that type of stuff.
Yeah, the bones of it is pretty solid and it actually reads like it's trying to be a follow up to TFA/TLJ and a conclusion to the actual ST as it exists in those films instead of some whole new bullshit.
Except that conclusion is that the last of the Skywalkers dies, unredeemed, having learned nothing, but only after ensuring his bloodline dies off completely.
Yeah wow, that just soooo captures the spirit of Star Wars we all love...
No.
This script seems better paced and less frenetic than what we got, but I absolutely hate what it does with Kylo/Rey.
Since when is Star Wars about the pride of the Skywalker bloodline?
The OT ain't about that. Neither TFA or TLJ are about either. In the PT there isn't even a Skywalker bloodline to speak of, since there's literally only one guy.
No, it's about redemption, as told through the particular lens of one family. So yeah, I'm still going to go with having the 9 movie series end with the last generation of that family dying unredeemed after falling to the dark side then doubling tripling down on that folly kinda undermines the whole point of everything before it. If that's your grand vision for a Sequel Trilogy, count me out...
Since when is it told through the lens of one family?
Han isn't a Skywalker, Leia only get shoehorned in as one in ROTJ and it informs nothing about her story and she has no redemption arc.
The entire idea that Star Wars is about the redemption story of the Skywalker family is a bunch of post-hoc bullshit.
Or, it's exactly how its creator characterizes it...
Yeah, I made a series of movies that was about one thing: Darth Vader. Originally, people thought it was all about Luke. The early films are about Luke redeeming his father, so Luke’s the focus. But it’s also about Princess Leia and her struggle to reestablish the Republic, which is what her mother was doing. So it’s really about mothers and daughters and fathers and sons.
The Skywalker family is the vehicle through which the redemption story is told. Vader still informs everything about Kylo Ren, even extending into this supposed new alternate script that Lucas had nothing to do with.
I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for thinking having the last Skywalker's final takeaway from Vader's redemption arc being "You allowed love to cloud your judgement" and go all-in on the Dark Side, then get murdered, is an intensely shitty way to end the "saga", the story of their family, whatever you want to call it. I mean, if you're just rooting for nihilism and subversive messaging in SW because it's "unexpected" or whatever, fine. But like I said, count me out.
That doesn't make sense at all. Nothing about the script that started this or the idea of Kylo Ren not being redeemed in the end is nihilistic.
Star Wars is not The Tale of the Skywalkers, nor it is about only redemption arcs for Skywalkers or whatever else you seem to have in mind.
Like, Vader's redemption is a thing for only the 3rd film of the OT and it's entirely about the fact that he's one of our main character's dad. A main character who's name is basically meaningless in the trilogy. It's just some name.
And Leia and Han are off having adventures that have nothing to do with that even in ROTJ.
Like seriously, that Lucas quote is full of shit. Luke wasn't even supposed to be Vader's son in the first film.
The PT is totally about the Skywalkers, which is the context for that quote. Anikin is the main plot thread connecting the PT and OT, like the only thing in common besides the setting and Anikin's true enemy, Palpatine. And the ST follows suit because its not that original.
My reaction to "THE DEAD SPEAK!" in a universe where ghosts regularly appear to give lectures is.... So what? This is not news.
This is what makes the problem so glaring. We already know about Force ghosts. And there is always the old fallback of history books/holocrons and old untransmitted messages and all that jazz, especially given the technology level of the Star Wars universe.
Instead it's just thrown in front of us like...ok? That's a premise? And then literally does none of the work to establish why this is meaningful or why we should care - we're just told that it happens and here's the consequences and OFF WE GO! It would've been better if it was just an old Palpatine holocron pointing to a lost fleet or something because it would've avoided the ridiculousness of Palpatine's existence, but the core problems with the initial premise and its execution would still be there because we have no reason to give a shit about it from the start and we're thrown mid-stream into a literal desert of nothingness.
The odd thing is that bragging in advance doesn't seem like Palpatine's style. He did everything in the shadows in the prequel trilogy, and maintained a veneer of legitimacy the whole time. If he's going to unleash a wave of destruction on the galaxy, you'll find out the moment the wave is unleashed and no sooner.
My reaction to "THE DEAD SPEAK!" in a universe where ghosts regularly appear to give lectures is.... So what? This is not news.
This is what makes the problem so glaring. We already know about Force ghosts. And there is always the old fallback of history books/holocrons and old untransmitted messages and all that jazz, especially given the technology level of the Star Wars universe.
Instead it's just thrown in front of us like...ok? That's a premise? And then literally does none of the work to establish why this is meaningful or why we should care - we're just told that it happens and here's the consequences and OFF WE GO! It would've been better if it was just an old Palpatine holocron pointing to a lost fleet or something because it would've avoided the ridiculousness of Palpatine's existence, but the core problems with the initial premise and its execution would still be there because we have no reason to give a shit about it from the start and we're thrown mid-stream into a literal desert of nothingness.
The odd thing is that bragging in advance doesn't seem like Palpatine's style. He did everything in the shadows in the prequel trilogy, and maintained a veneer of legitimacy the whole time. If he's going to unleash a wave of destruction on the galaxy, you'll find out the moment the wave is unleashed and no sooner.
That's actually the one part of the movie that does sort of make sense.
See, Palpatine's ultimate goal
wasn't to use his big fleet and unleash a wave of destruction. That's nice, sure, but his ultimate goal was to lure Rey there and possess her body.
Now, the specifics of that whole possession thing are kinda dumb, but the fact that he announced the fleet in advance kinda sorta makes sense.
You know what, I saw the more detailed breakdown of the alternate script ending that was done today, and I take back everything I said.
This would've been far better than the ending we got, and opened up the whole canonical universe to a new era of stories with a renewed Jedi order operating under a very different philosophy.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
I feel like somewhere within ‘The Dead Speak’ is a really solid throughline that can connect it to ‘The Phantom Menace.’
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
I.e. it didn't ignore the issue, it just didn't do anything interesting with it.
Yeah, she reads up on the Sith Map thingy in them I think.
I didn't even think about this while watching in the theater, but
that really doesn't make much sense, does it? Rey found the book with the info about the Sith map in the ancient Jedi texts she took from Ahch-To. For starters, Luke told Yoda he hadn't read them in TLJ. But whatever, I guess ignoring that fits in with ignoring everything else about TLJ in ROS.
That said, my memory of things is that Luke went to Ahch-To in the first place to find those Jedi texts and to try to learn from the past. But when they meet up with Lando in ROS he tells them that he and Luke had been to that planet together while searching for Exegol. And as far as we know, once Luke reached Ahch-To he sank his X-Wing and never left. So, did he find an ancient Jedi text prior to finding Ahch-To, that somehow also had info on finding the assassin who killed Rey's parents in order to reach Exegol? How the hell would that have been in an ancient Jedi text (wait, don't tell me, same way that Sith dagger got made)? Or was Rey looking at a journal of Luke's that he stored away with the ancient Jedi texts on Ahch-To for some reason and just happened to look like the ancient Jedi texts? Or is the answer just "Shut up and stop questioning the
MacGuffin, nerd"?
I'm probably giving this more thought than JJ or Terrio ever did, but I really didn't need yet another inconsistency in this film.
Luke probably just skimmed the sith lore sections of the Jedi texts for references to Exagol.
For me though one very mundane thing that bothers me is in Star Wars you cannot park your spaceship anywhere randomly without it being sabotaged, stripped for parts, chewed on by mynocks, or just plain stolen. Hell even droids cannot get too far from owners sight on many planets. Except the guy sheev hires to move relics and granddaughters. His ship remains unmolested for years.
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
That needs to show up in the next Mandalorian season.
Just have him trying to get into a spaceship, and he can't.
"It's... locked? You can do that with spaceships?"
My favorite part was people who were not as online as much as I am (and probably leading better lives due to it) thought I couldn't possibly be telling the truth about the Fortnite thing.
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SixCaches Tweets in the mainframe cyberhexRegistered Userregular
What’s the fortnite thing?
I saw 1917 last night and on my way out I passed a mostly empty theater where Star Wars was playing. It had started at the same time as my movie, so I thought I’d pop in to maybe watch the ending.
I hung around for like thirty seconds before something stupid happened and I left.
So I'm rewatching Rogue One now in my opening move for rewatching the franchise in a Machete-style order... itself mostly as a "spoonful of sugar" bid to rewatch the prequels without immediately giving up.
Anyway Rogue One opens up so well. I love Krennic. He's perfectly mediocre. His flash Imperial attire and Death Troopers just underline how much less of a man he is than Galen before either of them even speak.
The imagery in Rogue One continues to be outstanding, heavily reinforcing the Empire as omnipresent, oppressive, and with technology seemingly capable of the impossible.
Saul Gerrerra is very obviously a parallel to Darth Vader, and the commentary that arises from that is arguably more successful than he his, because as a character he's a bit excessive for his place in the story. Forest Whitaker has too much gravity as a performer; his character pulls too much focus.
Tarkin is a wonderful counterpoint to Krennic's ambitious inadequacy, but Digital Tarkin is weird looking and putting him front and center in frame so often was a mistake. The random cameo of the cantina dudes is also a mistake.
Chirrut and Baze are fucking lovely. The droid is fun, too, and I think Jyn is better than people give the character credit for, but she still doesn't have very strong characterization. The rest of the cast of characters is weaker to varying degrees, which is a shame because I can see what they wanted to do with them and they're all good ideas.
Edit: Annnnd finished! Honestly the first half of this one feels a bit of a mess in the same way that the ST movies feel a bit of a mess; it's scattered and feels like it's trying to cover too much ground too quickly. Once it finds its footing, though, it's a real classic feeling Star War. I like it a lot.
BloodySloth on
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
I agree that the first half is quite a mess. It has a few gems in there (Cassian's introduction, the insurgents on Jeddah) that made the bad parts harder to watch, pretty much souring me on the whole movie. By the time Rogue One finally pulls out some good coherent storytelling I've already spent an hour wishing these characters would die, and then the movie denies me that for another hour!
I wish it didn't disappoint me as much as it did, as most of my friends enjoyed it while I hate with a passion.
Also digitized corpse Tarkin was gross and unsettling. I'm angry that people thought that was appropriate to do
Rogue One is a charming exception to the assertion that maybe examining every throwaway line of dialogue from the OT and trying to apply full backstory to it is a bad idea.
And does so while being a none-too-subtle reflection of a present and conflicts very different than existed at the time of the OT.
It really boggles how the same creative machine that did RO/Rebels/The Mandalorian/(hell even Fallen Order) managed to create the ST.
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Yeah, TFA could play out basically the same too, which was my intent with how easy it would have been to make ROS intentional just by spending four minutes on setting it up in each movie. You wouldn't even have to ADD four minutes, just change four minutes of it. Poe gets the information from old man, while he simultaneously learns that the First Order is an Imperial remnant back in a big big way. Finn escapes and is able to give more insight into the First Order's existence and MO. The rest of the movie can be basically the same.
TLJ could play out the same and maybe just adding some ominous hinting in the throne room scene about a greater Sith menace or how the rule of two is no more.
And then you could slow roll a lot of stuff in ROS.
Funny thing is that the EU had a lost fleet plotline(even comprised of ship types and equipment that were themselves still canon in the Disneyverse) they could have just stolen from and they still went for a dumber version.
The Emperor is really....Vader's father. He is also a Skywalker. Palpatine is not his true name! He died on the second Death Star over the Forest Moon of Endor.
Dark technology have enabled him to return, but he is not yet returned! His minions have overthrown Kylo via Hux and are working to resurrect him. The Resistance has 16 hours (because distance means nothing in Star Wars anymore) to stop him and his loyal followers. Kylo, a Solo (or Organa at best / worst), is forced to work with the Resistance to prevent the....
Wait for it....
Rise of Skywalker
I know, it's terrible.
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Or maybe there is no Palpatine, or there never was an actual Palpatine. It's just a cabal of evil Sith and there are like actors and body doubles or illusions but it's just a role and it's all just Space Hydra. Or it's just some pathetic edgelord who looks up to the Sith and it's a Wizard of Oz thing where Palpy is still dead and he's just trying to operate the remnants of the Empire like a zombie marionette, and then Kylo Ren looks at him and says "wait this is what I did all of that for?"
I still think it would be better if the ST had almost nothing to do with the OT and was about new stories of new heroes in a galaxy of possibilities but if it has to be chained to the OT/Skywalkers it could have at least been good.
Y'know, funny/unfortunate that you should mention that because the EU prequel materials...
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I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for thinking having the last Skywalker's final takeaway from Vader's redemption arc being "You allowed love to cloud your judgement" and go all-in on the Dark Side, then get murdered, is an intensely shitty way to end the "saga", the story of their family, whatever you want to call it. I mean, if you're just rooting for nihilism and subversive messaging in SW because it's "unexpected" or whatever, fine. But like I said, count me out.
That doesn't make sense at all. Nothing about the script that started this or the idea of Kylo Ren not being redeemed in the end is nihilistic.
Star Wars is not The Tale of the Skywalkers, nor it is about only redemption arcs for Skywalkers or whatever else you seem to have in mind.
Like, Vader's redemption is a thing for only the 3rd film of the OT and it's entirely about the fact that he's one of our main character's dad. A main character who's name is basically meaningless in the trilogy. It's just some name.
And Leia and Han are off having adventures that have nothing to do with that even in ROTJ.
Like seriously, that Lucas quote is full of shit. Luke wasn't even supposed to be Vader's son in the first film.
I think Lucas probably believes he always had a grand plan. This is a man who significantly altered films and said "I'm sorry if people feel bad about it but they are MY films". But Vader being a slightly higher mook in A New Hope doesn't mesh with there being a grand plan.
The PT is totally about the Skywalkers, which is the context for that quote. Anikin is the main plot thread connecting the PT and OT, like the only thing in common besides the setting and Anikin's true enemy, Palpatine. And the ST follows suit because its not that original.
The odd thing is that bragging in advance doesn't seem like Palpatine's style. He did everything in the shadows in the prequel trilogy, and maintained a veneer of legitimacy the whole time. If he's going to unleash a wave of destruction on the galaxy, you'll find out the moment the wave is unleashed and no sooner.
That's actually the one part of the movie that does sort of make sense.
See, Palpatine's ultimate goal
Now, the specifics of that whole possession thing are kinda dumb, but the fact that he announced the fleet in advance kinda sorta makes sense.
If you squint at it.
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This would've been far better than the ending we got, and opened up the whole canonical universe to a new era of stories with a renewed Jedi order operating under a very different philosophy.
As the joke goes, The Phantom Menace and The Rise of Skywalker had their titles switched.
In addition to everything else it ignored, I mean :P
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"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
I didn't even think about this while watching in the theater, but
That said, my memory of things is that Luke went to Ahch-To in the first place to find those Jedi texts and to try to learn from the past. But when they meet up with Lando in ROS he tells them that he and Luke had been to that planet together while searching for Exegol. And as far as we know, once Luke reached Ahch-To he sank his X-Wing and never left. So, did he find an ancient Jedi text prior to finding Ahch-To, that somehow also had info on finding the assassin who killed Rey's parents in order to reach Exegol? How the hell would that have been in an ancient Jedi text (wait, don't tell me, same way that Sith dagger got made)? Or was Rey looking at a journal of Luke's that he stored away with the ancient Jedi texts on Ahch-To for some reason and just happened to look like the ancient Jedi texts? Or is the answer just "Shut up and stop questioning the
MacGuffin, nerd"?
I'm probably giving this more thought than JJ or Terrio ever did, but I really didn't need yet another inconsistency in this film.
For me though one very mundane thing that bothers me is in Star Wars you cannot park your spaceship anywhere randomly without it being sabotaged, stripped for parts, chewed on by mynocks, or just plain stolen. Hell even droids cannot get too far from owners sight on many planets. Except the guy sheev hires to move relics and granddaughters. His ship remains unmolested for years.
No keys, no codes, no nothing
She could have left Jakku at any time
Just have him trying to get into a spaceship, and he can't.
"It's... locked? You can do that with spaceships?"
She was waiting on her family.
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Ahh, you're right, thanks!
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I saw 1917 last night and on my way out I passed a mostly empty theater where Star Wars was playing. It had started at the same time as my movie, so I thought I’d pop in to maybe watch the ending.
I hung around for like thirty seconds before something stupid happened and I left.
Which dance does Palpatine do during his speech?
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Anyway Rogue One opens up so well. I love Krennic. He's perfectly mediocre. His flash Imperial attire and Death Troopers just underline how much less of a man he is than Galen before either of them even speak.
TBF, if this was five years ago it would have been a webisode featuring none of the main cast.
I had to go look this up.
Reality is so much dumber then I could ever have imagined.
Saul Gerrerra is very obviously a parallel to Darth Vader, and the commentary that arises from that is arguably more successful than he his, because as a character he's a bit excessive for his place in the story. Forest Whitaker has too much gravity as a performer; his character pulls too much focus.
Tarkin is a wonderful counterpoint to Krennic's ambitious inadequacy, but Digital Tarkin is weird looking and putting him front and center in frame so often was a mistake. The random cameo of the cantina dudes is also a mistake.
Chirrut and Baze are fucking lovely. The droid is fun, too, and I think Jyn is better than people give the character credit for, but she still doesn't have very strong characterization. The rest of the cast of characters is weaker to varying degrees, which is a shame because I can see what they wanted to do with them and they're all good ideas.
Edit: Annnnd finished! Honestly the first half of this one feels a bit of a mess in the same way that the ST movies feel a bit of a mess; it's scattered and feels like it's trying to cover too much ground too quickly. Once it finds its footing, though, it's a real classic feeling Star War. I like it a lot.
I wish it didn't disappoint me as much as it did, as most of my friends enjoyed it while I hate with a passion.
Also digitized corpse Tarkin was gross and unsettling. I'm angry that people thought that was appropriate to do
And does so while being a none-too-subtle reflection of a present and conflicts very different than existed at the time of the OT.
It really boggles how the same creative machine that did RO/Rebels/The Mandalorian/(hell even Fallen Order) managed to create the ST.