daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
Chugging up to mid season two of DS9. They discovered a casino full of machines that can alter probability at basically all levels of existence (it can influence quantum spin and people's free will) and they immediately destroy the machines and will never mention them ever again. Ah Trek.
The Jake and Nog friendship is very believable, especially given how little screen time it gets. They do a real good job of showing those two getting a little bit tighter with each other each time they're shown so you're totally able to buy the friendship developing off screen. B5 did a similar thing with Sheridan and Delenn getting closer before they started dating, but they had a lot more scenes together. It's just really well done and a credit to the writers and actors.
Had a Garak episode, fun character with lots of low key scenery chewing. I never got the sexual tension between him and Bashir and I think part of it is because the doctor is such an obvious hetero horndog that Garak being interested in him that way never crossed my mind.
Notably bad technobabble: They're going to dump some protomatter into a dead star and it will spontaneously cause all the carbon and iron atoms to hydrogen and (some) helium which makes FTL seem like no big deal as far as breaking physics goes. The real silly bit was that O'Brien was increasing speed of the ship's engines in case this caused the star to go supernova and they needed to get out of there in a hurry... and all I could think was that anything over warp one was enough to get the job done. Generally though I've liked the fact that the technobabble still continues to be in support of the other elements of the stories and not the main focus or ultimate solution to their problem of the week.
The Dominion got name dropped, not sure if they knew what it was going to turn into or if they threw it in there just as a potential story hook. That episode was pretty uneven I thought. It had the usual bunch of Gamma Quadrant assholes (though they weren't 100% assholes, so a slight improvement) and I think it was trying to push the idea that Bajor should have accepted the refugees, but it didn't really work for me because every time they talk about the situation on Bajor it's all about coups, droughts, famines, and various other major problems that settling a bunch of additional people there might not be the bestest idea ever. Especially since the Federation doesn't seem to be giving Bajor huge amounts of support and there's a perfectly viable alternative planet. It might have worked better if they'd followed up on their stories of originating in the Alpha Quadrant or maybe setup some contrast between their legends and Bajor's stuff about the Prophets. Maybe something about whose legends and myths count and whose don't.
Ferengi fight or flight reflexes are hilarious. Hiss, jump and pounce, and a constant high pitched screaming are the main options.
I think the single biggest advantage that DS9 has over TNG is that they had non-Starfleet characters as part of the main cast. It gives them a lot more options when it comes to crafting stories because you have a wider range of conflicts and solutions available to you than if everyone is generally going to run into Starfleet problems and look to solve them in Starfleet approved ways.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
I'm not sure how I feel about the Tal Shiar being the front for a secreter group whose sole purpose is synthaphobia. Maybe I got it wrong? I'd buy them being a pseudo Section 31 that does their own thing rather than implying they're the ones in charge.
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
I'm not sure how I feel about the Tal Shiar being the front for a secreter group whose sole purpose is synthaphobia. Maybe I got it wrong? I'd buy them being a pseudo Section 31 that does their own thing rather than implying they're the ones in charge.
I think your second supposition is the correct one.
That this other group is more like Section 31, doing it's own thing and interjecting only when it sees the necessity.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
I'm not sure how I feel about the Tal Shiar being the front for a secreter group whose sole purpose is synthaphobia. Maybe I got it wrong? I'd buy them being a pseudo Section 31 that does their own thing rather than implying they're the ones in charge.
I think your second supposition is the correct one.
That this other group is more like Section 31, doing it's own thing and interjecting only when it sees the necessity.
I've seen a lot of people have complaining about this but
"our secret police got secret police" is so Romulan I sort of love it
I'm not sure how I feel about the Tal Shiar being the front for a secreter group whose sole purpose is synthaphobia. Maybe I got it wrong? I'd buy them being a pseudo Section 31 that does their own thing rather than implying they're the ones in charge.
I think your second supposition is the correct one.
That this other group is more like Section 31, doing it's own thing and interjecting only when it sees the necessity.
I've seen a lot of people have complaining about this but
"our secret police got secret police" is so Romulan I sort of love it
I don't mind the secret secret police, just the idea that they seem to be wholly dedicated to fighting synths.
I'm not sure how I feel about the Tal Shiar being the front for a secreter group whose sole purpose is synthaphobia. Maybe I got it wrong? I'd buy them being a pseudo Section 31 that does their own thing rather than implying they're the ones in charge.
given how the romulans work honestly layers of even more secret cabals all the way down seems pretty logical. It seems likely the romulans had a faction of singularity seekers in the past that caused some deep scars on their society. Probably also explains their work on the borg cube as something like the borg is one likely outcome of a faction of singularity seekers getting close to their objective.
Also given how things look like they are shaping up
Starfleet security working with a faction of the romulan secreter/secretest police to suppress AI people who look biologically like humans enough to pass normal scans seems pretty valid. Something like that seems like a security nightmare of potentially mole agent doppelgangers if you perfect the tech. That kind of thing would be a security services worst nightmare.
Also given how things look like they are shaping up
Starfleet security working with a faction of the romulan secreter/secretest police to suppress AI people who look biologically like humans enough to pass normal scans seems pretty valid. Something like that seems like a security nightmare of potentially mole agent doppelgangers if you perfect the tech. That kind of thing would be a security services worst nightmare.
Yeah, another criticism is that the villain parts don't seem that interesting yet, but I actually have my fingers crossed that there's more there and what's actually going on is more interesting than it first appears, hence why we've been spending some time introducing them.
Evil commodore could be a one-note bit character, or they could pay off later when we find out there's some more interesting politics going on there.
Also given how things look like they are shaping up
Starfleet security working with a faction of the romulan secreter/secretest police to suppress AI people who look biologically like humans enough to pass normal scans seems pretty valid. Something like that seems like a security nightmare of potentially mole agent doppelgangers if you perfect the tech. That kind of thing would be a security services worst nightmare.
Lamp-shading how they're going to bring back Data so hard. The "you could theoretically recreate Data from a single positronic neuron" was such an awkward addition to that conversation. I get that they wanted to put that gun on the mantle so it's not out of left field when it happens later, but it was like the two characters stopped mid-sentence and just stared at the gun and one was like "you know, that gun could shoot someone". If they made it more like Picard hears this and now he explicitly wants to bring back Data and that becomes part of his motivation, I think it would play a lot better than the show basically going "here's a vital future plot point, now forget about it for now please".
I also didn't like the scene where Picard has to explicitly explain why he's not going to go pick up Worf and LaForge and Riker. It was a lot like "this awkward scene exists so that grognards won't be angry that they didn't explicitly explain why Picard wasn't getting the enterprise crew, rather then just letting it arise organically at some point", but then I ended up seeing a lot of comments from people saying they were happy that it was mentioned so I guess they know what they're doing.
I'm actually pretty worried that the way that viewers consume TV now is having a negative effect on how it's written and directed. The reflex is to judge something harshly immediately and have fervent discussion about it immediately afterwards, and I worry that this ultimately makes creators too worried about making their shows airtight or people-pleasing at the expense of other aspects. Like I feel pretty often like shows are flinching for the criticism they know they're gonna get ahead of time. And that criticism really has come to color people's perceptions of media.
and I think it was trying to push the idea that Bajor should have accepted the refugees, but it didn't really work for me because every time they talk about the situation on Bajor it's all about coups, droughts, famines, and various other major problems that settling a bunch of additional people there might not be the bestest idea ever
The leader of the refugees makes a really salient point at the end about how her people are farmers and if anyone could bring Bajor back from famine it would be them. It's also implied that they'd be settled on a basically empty continent on the planet. But the reality would not be so easy. I think ultimately with Federation support they could have all pulled it off, but the episode serves as an important early reminder in the series that not everything is going to end up rosy and perfect when the credits role. And it delivers the critical payload of casting Bajor in a bad looking, isolationist light, especially as they are contrasted against another religious race following a prophecy, which is important in its own way.
and I think it was trying to push the idea that Bajor should have accepted the refugees, but it didn't really work for me because every time they talk about the situation on Bajor it's all about coups, droughts, famines, and various other major problems that settling a bunch of additional people there might not be the bestest idea ever
The leader of the refugees makes a really salient point at the end about how her people are farmers and if anyone could bring Bajor back from famine it would be them. It's also implied that they'd be settled on a basically empty continent on the planet. But the reality would not be so easy. I think ultimately with Federation support they could have all pulled it off, but the episode serves as an important early reminder in the series that not everything is going to end up rosy and perfect when the credits role. And it delivers the critical payload of casting Bajor in a bad looking, isolationist light, especially as they are contrasted against another religious race following a prophecy, which is important in its own way.
I think there's a kind of important point (that the episode perhaps doesn't delve into enough) that the refugees picked Bajor specifically because they felt like the planet and its story was a reflection of their own people. Their entire prophecy was based around this idea that they would find a home planet that had been through suffering (iirc), and given that these sorts of prophecies are generally a reflection of the hopes/dreams of the people that hold them that makes sort of a compelling implication that their cultures were a lot more alike/aligned than you might assume from the fact that they're random pilgrims from the other side of the universe. Like, they wanted to be a part of rebuilding and revitalizing a planet that had suffered, and I like the idea that they could've been a huge boon to Bajor if Bajor wasn't so keen on seeing the differences and possible conflicts between their people rather than the ways in which they are actually a lot alike.
Lamp-shading how they're going to bring back Data so hard. The "you could theoretically recreate Data from a single positronic neuron" was such an awkward addition to that conversation. I get that they wanted to put that gun on the mantle so it's not out of left field when it happens later, but it was like the two characters stopped mid-sentence and just stared at the gun and one was like "you know, that gun could shoot someone". If they made it more like Picard hears this and now he explicitly wants to bring back Data and that becomes part of his motivation, I think it would play a lot better than the show basically going "here's a vital future plot point, now forget about it for now please".
I also didn't like the scene where Picard has to explicitly explain why he's not going to go pick up Worf and LaForge and Riker. It was a lot like "this awkward scene exists so that grognards won't be angry that they didn't explicitly explain why Picard wasn't getting the enterprise crew, rather then just letting it arise organically at some point", but then I ended up seeing a lot of comments from people saying they were happy that it was mentioned so I guess they know what they're doing.
I'm actually pretty worried that the way that viewers consume TV now is having a negative effect on how it's written and directed. The reflex is to judge something harshly immediately and have fervent discussion about it immediately afterwards, and I worry that this ultimately makes creators too worried about making their shows airtight or people-pleasing at the expense of other aspects. Like I feel pretty often like shows are flinching for the criticism they know they're gonna get ahead of time. And that criticism really has come to color people's perceptions of media.
I actually don't think the plan is for Data to come back, but I think they wanted to leave the possibility open. I don't think Brent Spiner would go for it though. Agree it could have been handled with more finesse, though.
Same on the scene explaining why they don't just round up the TNG crew. It was a bit "talking directly to the audience." I am glad they did it though, precisely so I don't have to hear a bunch of internet grognards (*cough* RLM *cough*) piss and moan about it. You know they would.
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38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
Wife is watching ST:NG for the first time.
We watched the Season Finale of Season 2 : Shades of Grey a Riker clip show.
Its a pretty bad episode. Especially for a season finale. A plant scratches Riker which makes him die unless he relives all of his happiest and saddest memories all of which have coincidentally occurred over the last 2 years. You wonder why the away teams don't have any protective gear stronger than their pajamas. You wonder why none of Riker's bad moments involve his father.
At least Season 3 starts off strong with Dr. Bob Kelso from Scrubs saying, "Listen sport, I'd rather everyone on this ship die then fail to launch this probe!"
I actually don't think the plan is for Data to come back, but I think they wanted to leave the possibility open. I don't think Brent Spiner would go for it though. Agree it could have been handled with more finesse, though.
Same on the scene explaining why they don't just round up the TNG crew. It was a bit "talking directly to the audience." I am glad they did it though, precisely so I don't have to hear a bunch of internet grognards (*cough* RLM *cough*) piss and moan about it. You know they would.
Why wouldn't he? He is already in it and its not like it would be another 7 season, 22 episodes a season commitment. And they already got Guinan for season 2, might as well get all the band back together. I would love for John De Lancie to come back as Q at some point, even if its just for one small scene. He'd have alot of fun teasing Picard right now.
Lamp-shading how they're going to bring back Data so hard. The "you could theoretically recreate Data from a single positronic neuron" was such an awkward addition to that conversation. I get that they wanted to put that gun on the mantle so it's not out of left field when it happens later, but it was like the two characters stopped mid-sentence and just stared at the gun and one was like "you know, that gun could shoot someone". If they made it more like Picard hears this and now he explicitly wants to bring back Data and that becomes part of his motivation, I think it would play a lot better than the show basically going "here's a vital future plot point, now forget about it for now please".
I also didn't like the scene where Picard has to explicitly explain why he's not going to go pick up Worf and LaForge and Riker. It was a lot like "this awkward scene exists so that grognards won't be angry that they didn't explicitly explain why Picard wasn't getting the enterprise crew, rather then just letting it arise organically at some point", but then I ended up seeing a lot of comments from people saying they were happy that it was mentioned so I guess they know what they're doing.
I'm actually pretty worried that the way that viewers consume TV now is having a negative effect on how it's written and directed. The reflex is to judge something harshly immediately and have fervent discussion about it immediately afterwards, and I worry that this ultimately makes creators too worried about making their shows airtight or people-pleasing at the expense of other aspects. Like I feel pretty often like shows are flinching for the criticism they know they're gonna get ahead of time. And that criticism really has come to color people's perceptions of media.
I absolutely agree with your macro-level concerns about how TV is being altered, though I think it applies far more to franchises (and not just on TV) than new material due to the oppressive nature of… not necessarily high expectations, but absurdly particular expectations. Hell, there was already interview material on record before Picard started airing about how—and why—the creative direction seeks to actively avoid being "TNG part 2", and the only response that some can muster is, "well how dare they?"
But as to you're first spoilered point (the lamp shading), I actually think they might be faking us out there…
I could envision a scenario in which a "single positronic neuron" is all that's left, at which point it becomes a question of resurrecting Data or one of the twins. Picard wants Data back, but knows that he'd consider the permanent loss of Dahj and/or Soji to be too high a price, and so he has to finally let Data go in order to do what he would want.
That's not the only way to subvert the obvious lampshade, or even a particularly good way… I'm just trying to say that there's still plenty of room for them to swerve.
Sneaks on
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
I actually don't think the plan is for Data to come back, but I think they wanted to leave the possibility open. I don't think Brent Spiner would go for it though. Agree it could have been handled with more finesse, though.
Same on the scene explaining why they don't just round up the TNG crew. It was a bit "talking directly to the audience." I am glad they did it though, precisely so I don't have to hear a bunch of internet grognards (*cough* RLM *cough*) piss and moan about it. You know they would.
Why wouldn't he? He is already in it and its not like it would be another 7 season, 22 episodes a season commitment. And they already got Guinan for season 2, might as well get all the band back together. I would love for John De Lancie to come back as Q at some point, even if its just for one small scene. He'd have alot of fun teasing Picard right now.
I don't have a reference for you but I recall reading an interview with Brent where he was rather against the idea of resurrecting Data.
Lamp-shading how they're going to bring back Data so hard. The "you could theoretically recreate Data from a single positronic neuron" was such an awkward addition to that conversation. I get that they wanted to put that gun on the mantle so it's not out of left field when it happens later, but it was like the two characters stopped mid-sentence and just stared at the gun and one was like "you know, that gun could shoot someone". If they made it more like Picard hears this and now he explicitly wants to bring back Data and that becomes part of his motivation, I think it would play a lot better than the show basically going "here's a vital future plot point, now forget about it for now please".
I also didn't like the scene where Picard has to explicitly explain why he's not going to go pick up Worf and LaForge and Riker. It was a lot like "this awkward scene exists so that grognards won't be angry that they didn't explicitly explain why Picard wasn't getting the enterprise crew, rather then just letting it arise organically at some point", but then I ended up seeing a lot of comments from people saying they were happy that it was mentioned so I guess they know what they're doing.
I'm actually pretty worried that the way that viewers consume TV now is having a negative effect on how it's written and directed. The reflex is to judge something harshly immediately and have fervent discussion about it immediately afterwards, and I worry that this ultimately makes creators too worried about making their shows airtight or people-pleasing at the expense of other aspects. Like I feel pretty often like shows are flinching for the criticism they know they're gonna get ahead of time. And that criticism really has come to color people's perceptions of media.
I absolutely agree with your macro-level concerns about how TV is being altered, though I think it applies far more to franchises (and not just on TV) than new material due to the oppressive nature of… not necessarily high expectations, but absurdly particular expectations. Hell, there was already interview material on record before Picard started airing about how—and why—the creative direction seeks to actively avoid being "TNG part 2", and the only response that some can muster is, "well how dare they?"
But as to you're first spoilered point (the lamp shading), I actually think they might be faking us out there…
I could envision a scenario in which a "single positronic neuron" is all that's left, at which point it becomes a question of resurrecting Data or one of the twins. Picard wants Data back, but knows that he'd consider the permanent loss of Dahj and/or Soji to be too high a price, and so he has to finally let Data go in order to do what he would want.
That's not the only way to subvert the obvious lampshade, or even a particularly good way… I'm just trying to say that there's still plenty of room for them to swerve.
See, this is the sort of thing I'm really hoping for out of the plot.
I think the thing that gave me the most hope is that the second episode repeatedly fills in the details of things we got glimpses of in the first episode with things that are more smart or interesting than I initially assumed. If it continues to do this and we end up seeing a show that's not like TNG in structure but is like TNG in regards to the complexity of the interesting moral dilemmas it presents, I will be extremely pleased.
Lamp-shading how they're going to bring back Data so hard. The "you could theoretically recreate Data from a single positronic neuron" was such an awkward addition to that conversation. I get that they wanted to put that gun on the mantle so it's not out of left field when it happens later, but it was like the two characters stopped mid-sentence and just stared at the gun and one was like "you know, that gun could shoot someone". If they made it more like Picard hears this and now he explicitly wants to bring back Data and that becomes part of his motivation, I think it would play a lot better than the show basically going "here's a vital future plot point, now forget about it for now please".
I also didn't like the scene where Picard has to explicitly explain why he's not going to go pick up Worf and LaForge and Riker. It was a lot like "this awkward scene exists so that grognards won't be angry that they didn't explicitly explain why Picard wasn't getting the enterprise crew, rather then just letting it arise organically at some point", but then I ended up seeing a lot of comments from people saying they were happy that it was mentioned so I guess they know what they're doing.
I'm actually pretty worried that the way that viewers consume TV now is having a negative effect on how it's written and directed. The reflex is to judge something harshly immediately and have fervent discussion about it immediately afterwards, and I worry that this ultimately makes creators too worried about making their shows airtight or people-pleasing at the expense of other aspects. Like I feel pretty often like shows are flinching for the criticism they know they're gonna get ahead of time. And that criticism really has come to color people's perceptions of media.
I absolutely agree with your macro-level concerns about how TV is being altered, though I think it applies far more to franchises (and not just on TV) than new material due to the oppressive nature of… not necessarily high expectations, but absurdly particular expectations. Hell, there was already interview material on record before Picard started airing about how—and why—the creative direction seeks to actively avoid being "TNG part 2", and the only response that some can muster is, "well how dare they?"
But as to you're first spoilered point (the lamp shading), I actually think they might be faking us out there…
I could envision a scenario in which a "single positronic neuron" is all that's left, at which point it becomes a question of resurrecting Data or one of the twins. Picard wants Data back, but knows that he'd consider the permanent loss of Dahj and/or Soji to be too high a price, and so he has to finally let Data go in order to do what he would want.
That's not the only way to subvert the obvious lampshade, or even a particularly good way… I'm just trying to say that there's still plenty of room for them to swerve.
See, this is the sort of thing I'm really hoping for out of the plot.
I think the thing that gave me the most hope is that the second episode repeatedly fills in the details of things we got glimpses of in the first episode with things that are more smart or interesting than I initially assumed. If it continues to do this and we end up seeing a show that's not like TNG in structure but is like TNG in regards to the complexity of the interesting moral dilemmas it presents, I will be extremely pleased.
I thought the implication was that they used a single neuron of Data's to resurrect him in the form of the two daughters. It's why the next bit of information she dropped was the procedure involved always produced twins.
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
Yeah but did the Daystrom institute save the body to study? Did data have the parts disinitgrated and spread the ashes somewhere? Lore could play a role here, even if it's a silent one.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Yeah but did the Daystrom institute save the body to study? Did data have the parts disinitgrated and spread the ashes somewhere? Lore could play a role here, even if it's a silent one.
Admiral Janeway retrieved him and had him reprogrammed into B4 as part of her plot to destabilize the Romulans.
I actually don't think the plan is for Data to come back, but I think they wanted to leave the possibility open. I don't think Brent Spiner would go for it though. Agree it could have been handled with more finesse, though.
Same on the scene explaining why they don't just round up the TNG crew. It was a bit "talking directly to the audience." I am glad they did it though, precisely so I don't have to hear a bunch of internet grognards (*cough* RLM *cough*) piss and moan about it. You know they would.
Why wouldn't he? He is already in it and its not like it would be another 7 season, 22 episodes a season commitment. And they already got Guinan for season 2, might as well get all the band back together. I would love for John De Lancie to come back as Q at some point, even if its just for one small scene. He'd have alot of fun teasing Picard right now.
If they ever bring DeLancie back as Q I would not completely rule out the idea that some writer is going to try and call for Q to dab at Picard at some point, and at this idea I am both sickened and curious.
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HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
Finally got a chance to watch Picard 2 and something has been nagging at me and I finally figured it out.
Where the hell is Beverly?
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Lamp-shading how they're going to bring back Data so hard. The "you could theoretically recreate Data from a single positronic neuron" was such an awkward addition to that conversation. I get that they wanted to put that gun on the mantle so it's not out of left field when it happens later, but it was like the two characters stopped mid-sentence and just stared at the gun and one was like "you know, that gun could shoot someone". If they made it more like Picard hears this and now he explicitly wants to bring back Data and that becomes part of his motivation, I think it would play a lot better than the show basically going "here's a vital future plot point, now forget about it for now please".
I also didn't like the scene where Picard has to explicitly explain why he's not going to go pick up Worf and LaForge and Riker. It was a lot like "this awkward scene exists so that grognards won't be angry that they didn't explicitly explain why Picard wasn't getting the enterprise crew, rather then just letting it arise organically at some point", but then I ended up seeing a lot of comments from people saying they were happy that it was mentioned so I guess they know what they're doing.
I'm actually pretty worried that the way that viewers consume TV now is having a negative effect on how it's written and directed. The reflex is to judge something harshly immediately and have fervent discussion about it immediately afterwards, and I worry that this ultimately makes creators too worried about making their shows airtight or people-pleasing at the expense of other aspects. Like I feel pretty often like shows are flinching for the criticism they know they're gonna get ahead of time. And that criticism really has come to color people's perceptions of media.
I absolutely agree with your macro-level concerns about how TV is being altered, though I think it applies far more to franchises (and not just on TV) than new material due to the oppressive nature of… not necessarily high expectations, but absurdly particular expectations. Hell, there was already interview material on record before Picard started airing about how—and why—the creative direction seeks to actively avoid being "TNG part 2", and the only response that some can muster is, "well how dare they?"
But as to you're first spoilered point (the lamp shading), I actually think they might be faking us out there…
I could envision a scenario in which a "single positronic neuron" is all that's left, at which point it becomes a question of resurrecting Data or one of the twins. Picard wants Data back, but knows that he'd consider the permanent loss of Dahj and/or Soji to be too high a price, and so he has to finally let Data go in order to do what he would want.
That's not the only way to subvert the obvious lampshade, or even a particularly good way… I'm just trying to say that there's still plenty of room for them to swerve.
See, this is the sort of thing I'm really hoping for out of the plot.
I think the thing that gave me the most hope is that the second episode repeatedly fills in the details of things we got glimpses of in the first episode with things that are more smart or interesting than I initially assumed. If it continues to do this and we end up seeing a show that's not like TNG in structure but is like TNG in regards to the complexity of the interesting moral dilemmas it presents, I will be extremely pleased.
I thought the implication was that they used a single neuron of Data's to resurrect him in the form of the two daughters. It's why the next bit of information she dropped was the procedure involved always produced twins.
Oh, huh; if that was the intention of that line then that's definitely not what I got, though maybe it bears re-watching to be sure. I think I was thrown off because she said something to the effect of "rebuild Data from single neuron" rather than something like "rebuild a Data-like synth" or something to that effect, but I could see how she could be using "a new Data" here as a short-hand for a new Data-like synth.
Picard speculation (as of ep 2):
I am super conflicted on whether I would prefer if Data was going to be rebuilt or not by the end of this series: on the one hand, I can get not wanting to resurrect a character who has been thoroughly sent off already and moving on to exploring new characters, and if he just shows up in dreams/flashbacks/recordings I'll still feel sufficiently fan-serviced.
On the other hand, there's all sorts of great ground left to cover with Data and he's kind of a character that just doesn't run out of interesting plots; how will he feel interacting with his friends who have aged, when he himself is incapable of aging, and how will he grapple with immortality/will he ultimately deliberately choose to live a limited lifespan? How will he deal with new synths (like his daughters) being created that are effortlessly more human/more easily accepted into human society than he is despite how much of his life he has dedicated to becoming more human? Will he choose to alter and expand himself as new technology becomes available, and will this lead him to a Ship of Theseus-type dilemma of whether he believes he is truly the same "person" as he was if he replaces his body or expands it so that the limitations that previously defined him are no longer there? What kind of person will Data be as a father, and will he choose to become a leader among the synths and/or fight for their rights?
Man, now I just want to start spamming some inboxes with spec scripts.
If I send enough they'll have to read them, right?
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
I'm not big on subversion for its own sake; if Picard really ends up being
The Search For Data
I will be totally fine with that because
- Nemesis was a garbage movie and Data deserved a way better farewell.
- Search For Spock was a very uneven movie and I'd like to see some of its big themes - what lengths would you go to for a friend, etc - done in greater depth.
- After like 4 attempts to remake Wrath of Khan, I kinda feel like we are owed this.
Except for maybe 5 episodes I think Janeway is good
I've only seen about 20% of Voyager (I'm primarily a TOS fan, as that's what I grew up on). But from what I've seen Janeway is a great captain. She's smart, competent, and looks after her crew.
Plus she seems the most engineering focused of the captains, and as an engineer, I really appreciate that. Picard's primary go to is diplomacy, whereas Janeway's first go to solution is engineering and science.
Patrick Stewart is such an incredible actor. Episode 1 brought tears to my eyes more than once, each time through the power and subtlety of Stewart's performance.
When the interviewer asks Picard if he ever lost faith in Data and we see the look on his face for a second before he responds "Never."
It's truly amazing how much emotion is behind one word in a script.
You can actually see and feel Picard remembering his friend, remembering their time together, remembering specific moments and events, feeling how he misses him. It's all there in two or three seconds of film and one word.
When Picard is sitting outside the Starfleet building with ( Vajh?) on the bench telling her "if you are who I think you are, you are dear to me in ways you can't understand".
Again Stewart is so good at exuding his inner feeling and memory and his love for Data. It just hits me in the heart and tear ducts in a really beautiful way.
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The Jake and Nog friendship is very believable, especially given how little screen time it gets. They do a real good job of showing those two getting a little bit tighter with each other each time they're shown so you're totally able to buy the friendship developing off screen. B5 did a similar thing with Sheridan and Delenn getting closer before they started dating, but they had a lot more scenes together. It's just really well done and a credit to the writers and actors.
Had a Garak episode, fun character with lots of low key scenery chewing. I never got the sexual tension between him and Bashir and I think part of it is because the doctor is such an obvious hetero horndog that Garak being interested in him that way never crossed my mind.
Notably bad technobabble: They're going to dump some protomatter into a dead star and it will spontaneously cause all the carbon and iron atoms to hydrogen and (some) helium which makes FTL seem like no big deal as far as breaking physics goes. The real silly bit was that O'Brien was increasing speed of the ship's engines in case this caused the star to go supernova and they needed to get out of there in a hurry... and all I could think was that anything over warp one was enough to get the job done. Generally though I've liked the fact that the technobabble still continues to be in support of the other elements of the stories and not the main focus or ultimate solution to their problem of the week.
The Dominion got name dropped, not sure if they knew what it was going to turn into or if they threw it in there just as a potential story hook. That episode was pretty uneven I thought. It had the usual bunch of Gamma Quadrant assholes (though they weren't 100% assholes, so a slight improvement) and I think it was trying to push the idea that Bajor should have accepted the refugees, but it didn't really work for me because every time they talk about the situation on Bajor it's all about coups, droughts, famines, and various other major problems that settling a bunch of additional people there might not be the bestest idea ever. Especially since the Federation doesn't seem to be giving Bajor huge amounts of support and there's a perfectly viable alternative planet. It might have worked better if they'd followed up on their stories of originating in the Alpha Quadrant or maybe setup some contrast between their legends and Bajor's stuff about the Prophets. Maybe something about whose legends and myths count and whose don't.
Ferengi fight or flight reflexes are hilarious. Hiss, jump and pounce, and a constant high pitched screaming are the main options.
I think the single biggest advantage that DS9 has over TNG is that they had non-Starfleet characters as part of the main cast. It gives them a lot more options when it comes to crafting stories because you have a wider range of conflicts and solutions available to you than if everyone is generally going to run into Starfleet problems and look to solve them in Starfleet approved ways.
I think your second supposition is the correct one.
I've seen a lot of people have complaining about this but
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Yeah, another criticism is that the villain parts don't seem that interesting yet, but I actually have my fingers crossed that there's more there and what's actually going on is more interesting than it first appears, hence why we've been spending some time introducing them.
I also didn't like the scene where Picard has to explicitly explain why he's not going to go pick up Worf and LaForge and Riker. It was a lot like "this awkward scene exists so that grognards won't be angry that they didn't explicitly explain why Picard wasn't getting the enterprise crew, rather then just letting it arise organically at some point", but then I ended up seeing a lot of comments from people saying they were happy that it was mentioned so I guess they know what they're doing.
I'm actually pretty worried that the way that viewers consume TV now is having a negative effect on how it's written and directed. The reflex is to judge something harshly immediately and have fervent discussion about it immediately afterwards, and I worry that this ultimately makes creators too worried about making their shows airtight or people-pleasing at the expense of other aspects. Like I feel pretty often like shows are flinching for the criticism they know they're gonna get ahead of time. And that criticism really has come to color people's perceptions of media.
The leader of the refugees makes a really salient point at the end about how her people are farmers and if anyone could bring Bajor back from famine it would be them. It's also implied that they'd be settled on a basically empty continent on the planet. But the reality would not be so easy. I think ultimately with Federation support they could have all pulled it off, but the episode serves as an important early reminder in the series that not everything is going to end up rosy and perfect when the credits role. And it delivers the critical payload of casting Bajor in a bad looking, isolationist light, especially as they are contrasted against another religious race following a prophecy, which is important in its own way.
I think there's a kind of important point (that the episode perhaps doesn't delve into enough) that the refugees picked Bajor specifically because they felt like the planet and its story was a reflection of their own people. Their entire prophecy was based around this idea that they would find a home planet that had been through suffering (iirc), and given that these sorts of prophecies are generally a reflection of the hopes/dreams of the people that hold them that makes sort of a compelling implication that their cultures were a lot more alike/aligned than you might assume from the fact that they're random pilgrims from the other side of the universe. Like, they wanted to be a part of rebuilding and revitalizing a planet that had suffered, and I like the idea that they could've been a huge boon to Bajor if Bajor wasn't so keen on seeing the differences and possible conflicts between their people rather than the ways in which they are actually a lot alike.
I miss these
Same on the scene explaining why they don't just round up the TNG crew. It was a bit "talking directly to the audience." I am glad they did it though, precisely so I don't have to hear a bunch of internet grognards (*cough* RLM *cough*) piss and moan about it. You know they would.
We watched the Season Finale of Season 2 : Shades of Grey a Riker clip show.
Its a pretty bad episode. Especially for a season finale. A plant scratches Riker which makes him die unless he relives all of his happiest and saddest memories all of which have coincidentally occurred over the last 2 years. You wonder why the away teams don't have any protective gear stronger than their pajamas. You wonder why none of Riker's bad moments involve his father.
At least Season 3 starts off strong with Dr. Bob Kelso from Scrubs saying, "Listen sport, I'd rather everyone on this ship die then fail to launch this probe!"
I absolutely agree with your macro-level concerns about how TV is being altered, though I think it applies far more to franchises (and not just on TV) than new material due to the oppressive nature of… not necessarily high expectations, but absurdly particular expectations. Hell, there was already interview material on record before Picard started airing about how—and why—the creative direction seeks to actively avoid being "TNG part 2", and the only response that some can muster is, "well how dare they?"
But as to you're first spoilered point (the lamp shading), I actually think they might be faking us out there…
That's not the only way to subvert the obvious lampshade, or even a particularly good way… I'm just trying to say that there's still plenty of room for them to swerve.
See, this is the sort of thing I'm really hoping for out of the plot.
I think the thing that gave me the most hope is that the second episode repeatedly fills in the details of things we got glimpses of in the first episode with things that are more smart or interesting than I initially assumed. If it continues to do this and we end up seeing a show that's not like TNG in structure but is like TNG in regards to the complexity of the interesting moral dilemmas it presents, I will be extremely pleased.
Captured and dismantled at the end of Descent.
Yeah but did the Daystrom institute save the body to study? Did data have the parts disinitgrated and spread the ashes somewhere? Lore could play a role here, even if it's a silent one.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Lore
Admiral Janeway retrieved him and had him reprogrammed into B4 as part of her plot to destabilize the Romulans.
Where the hell is Beverly?
Listen, what Beverly does with a candle in the privacy of her own bedroom is her business and no one else's, ok!
Picard speculation (as of ep 2):
On the other hand, there's all sorts of great ground left to cover with Data and he's kind of a character that just doesn't run out of interesting plots; how will he feel interacting with his friends who have aged, when he himself is incapable of aging, and how will he grapple with immortality/will he ultimately deliberately choose to live a limited lifespan? How will he deal with new synths (like his daughters) being created that are effortlessly more human/more easily accepted into human society than he is despite how much of his life he has dedicated to becoming more human? Will he choose to alter and expand himself as new technology becomes available, and will this lead him to a Ship of Theseus-type dilemma of whether he believes he is truly the same "person" as he was if he replaces his body or expands it so that the limitations that previously defined him are no longer there? What kind of person will Data be as a father, and will he choose to become a leader among the synths and/or fight for their rights?
Man, now I just want to start spamming some inboxes with spec scripts.
If I send enough they'll have to read them, right?
I will be totally fine with that because
- Search For Spock was a very uneven movie and I'd like to see some of its big themes - what lengths would you go to for a friend, etc - done in greater depth.
- After like 4 attempts to remake Wrath of Khan, I kinda feel like we are owed this.
I've only seen about 20% of Voyager (I'm primarily a TOS fan, as that's what I grew up on). But from what I've seen Janeway is a great captain. She's smart, competent, and looks after her crew.
Plus she seems the most engineering focused of the captains, and as an engineer, I really appreciate that. Picard's primary go to is diplomacy, whereas Janeway's first go to solution is engineering and science.
So would Jean-Luc if he hadn't picked a fight with Nausicaans.
Oh no you guys
Star Trek is ruined forever!!!
It's truly amazing how much emotion is behind one word in a script.
When Picard is sitting outside the Starfleet building with ( Vajh?) on the bench telling her "if you are who I think you are, you are dear to me in ways you can't understand".
Again Stewart is so good at exuding his inner feeling and memory and his love for Data. It just hits me in the heart and tear ducts in a really beautiful way.