I only have 2 heavies right now, a maurader and a jaeger mech and I put AC/20s on both of them plus 2 med lasers and 2 flamers on the marauder because why not. I also have a shadowhawk LRM boat that I'm not totally convinced of the effectiveness of(nothing seems to have more than 3-4 rocket spots), and a centurion with lasers and SRM.
I only have 2 heavies right now, a maurader and a jaeger mech and I put AC/20s on both of them plus 2 med lasers and 2 flamers on the marauder because why not. I also have a shadowhawk LRM boat that I'm not totally convinced of the effectiveness of(nothing seems to have more than 3-4 rocket spots), and a centurion with lasers and SRM.
Between the two, I'd say the Centurion CN9-A is a better missile boat than the Shadowhawk because the Shadowhawk has one of its missile hardpoints in the head, limiting it to an SRM2 or LRM5 there. The Centurion has 3 missile hardpoints in the side torso but that's not an actual limitation because you can't fill all those crit slots before running out of weight.
The Shadowhawk's higher tonnage and higher melee damage means it's better close up than sitting in the back.
SiliconStew on
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
that hardly seems to matter because I can't fill that third slot with anything above a LRM5 unless I want to have paper armor
I do have 2 shadowhawks so I could just phase out the centurion for a second one
Well for additional consideration, a Shadowhawk can, at most, fit 45 LRM tubes or 14 SRM tubes. A Centurion could theoretically fit 50 LRM tubes or 18 SRM tubes. But more importantly, due to the smaller engine the Centurion also has 3.5 more tons of free space than a Shadowhawk. Meaning a Centurion with 30 LRM tubes can have 3.5 extra tons of armor, ammo, or other weapons than a Shadowhawk with 30 LRM tubes. A 45 tube Centurion would actually have 4.5 extra tons vs a 45 tube Shadowhawk.
SiliconStew on
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
some of these loadouts look really inefficient. a AC/2 weighs 6 tons and does 25 damage, an AC/5 weighs 8 tons and does 45 damage. so, basically never use an AC/2?
So... yes BUT.. AC/2 Range = 480/720. AC/5 Range = 360/540.
AC/2 DPH -> 25/4 = 6.25
AC/5 DPH -> 45/8 = 5.65
They have longer range than LRM and LRM has DPH 3.33 (LRM's have DPRT of about 10 but they also do this in 4 dmg increments and this has other issues*). Its longer range than Gauss Rifles.
So there are still some reasons to fit AC/2. AC/2 (and particularly UAC/2) also get relatively more value from ++ dmg increases. +10 dmg makes the AC 2 hit 35 dmg (8.75 DPH, 5.83 DPRT, compared to ++ AC/5 of DPRT 6.875). If these still seem low to you consider that a Gauss Rifle, one of the better weapons in the game has DPRT between 5 and 5.77.
This means that it is legitimately possible to put AC/2s on a mech with low armor and jump jets and just have them provide damage from outside of the enemies effective range.
In actuality its really the AC/5 that is left out in the cold. Its range isn't that much higher than the AC/10. But it has a short range penalty whereas the AC/10 does not. And the AC/10 has better better DPRT (due to relative ammo weight) and a much better(read higher) variance. The AC/5 has slightly better recoil tolerance but whatever.
*Dmg is rounded down iirc so almost any amount of DR makes LRM's drop to 3 dmg and sometimes down to 2 dmg. The low variance also hurts them. 25 isn't a huge amount of damage but AC/2 is relatively high variance compared to LRM
Anyway my list of best ballistics
God Tier: These weapons are dumb. They're frankly absurd. Their only weaknesses is your limitation to fit more of them.
UAC/2++: 5 tonnes, 35 x 2 dmg, 8 heat...
UAC/20++: 12 tonnes, 120 x 2 dmg, who fucking cares how much heat it uses this thing will headcap through 40% DR.
Still proper dumb: Still really good, easy to design a mech around
UAC/10 : 60 x 2 dmg to 450 range.
AC/10++: Only the ++ version with dmg since 70 dmg is enough to headcap an unbraced mech, which only it, an ERPPC+, Gauss Rifle, AC/20, and L Pulse ++ can do.
Really Good: Worth Using most of the time. Most mechs that can fit these can use these effectively
AC/10: I find this is generally easier to use than the AC/20. The AC/20 however does have the chance to one shot light mechs which is a big advantage earlier in the game.
AC/20: AC/20 in the arm with a called shot to the CT.. gives actually a pretty decent chance to one shot a light mech which can easily turn the tide of an early fight.
OK: They do their jobs
AC/5
AC/2++ (only the +dmg ones)
Bad: You can make them work if you have a specific purpose for them.
AC/2 without +dmg
Super Bad
All LB-X: Special mention here because LB-X are both BAD and rare. The LB-X/2 ++ would be a really good weapon if you could get a bunch of them early in the game... It does 72 dmg to 720 range for zero height and weighs 5 tonnes. But its hella high variance and rare. And every other LBX is worse.
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General fitting stuff
I would say that the first mistake people make is to not refit for more armor, but the second mistake people make is having too much armor and not enough heat usage. A long range mech that really does sit in the back and lob missiles/shoots AC/2... Doesn't need a lot of armor.
Before the great rebalancing, I was a big LRM fan. I'd regularly build toward mid- and late-game lances with one or two (or even three!) dedicated LRMboats. It was Rock-em-Sock-em robots, and it was easy to keep knocking the OpFor down with stability damage.
Post rebalancing, though, the tonnage and damage spread is too great for LRMs (except maybe for some of the +2 dam variants) You often have to be killing a mech/vehicle/turret (or two) per turn to avoid getting overwhelmed by superior numbers. SRMs still make sense as low weight/heat damage output for your brawler/shotgunners, but generally I'm dropping LRMs from stock builds for deadlier options.
(I'm comfortable with this approach, but it has made missions with turrets a lot deadlier as I have to be in sight of them. Turrets were one thing that was decidedly easier with large quantities of indirect fire!)
Sensor lock -> no longer have to see those turrets. LRMs are still good just a lot harder to use.
Before today I actually thought the archer was like 50 tonnes. At 70 I could see it being used in a lategame Lance. 2x LRM20++(+) is 120 dmg. Which isn’t assault lance damage but it’s pretty good when it’s clumped up
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
The Archer is fine for a mid-lategame lance, but there are much better options out there in the Assault range. IMO it's not worth the tonnage/damage hit, though if you're well equipped enough you just don't care and its lack of optimality isn't a real impediment.
yeah I like SRM, I was playing with the LRM boat and found it to just not do that much damage. for SRM I piled a bunch on a griffon and have it jump behind people and shoot them in the core with SRMs and machine guns. then everything misses you cause you have 5-6 evasion. definitely feel that medium mechs can have a place provided you have enough damage to kill people with rear core shots
The Archer is fine for a mid-lategame lance, but there are much better options out there in the Assault range. IMO it's not worth the tonnage/damage hit, though if you're well equipped enough you just don't care and its lack of optimality isn't a real impediment.
If you like knockdowns, as an alternative build, an Archer with 4x SRM, 1x SnubPPC in their +Stability Damage variants, can do up to 255 Stability damage. Enough to fully destabilize any non-Surefooted mech, including an Annihilator, in a single shot. It's potential 363 damage ain't bad either.
SiliconStew on
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
Unfortunately even when you can knock mechs down its not efficient to do so.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited February 2021
Max efficency in battletech isn't neccessary in most cases. It isn't that hard a game. Knowing what is max efficient can be useful if you find yourself in a sticky situation, but if you run a knockdown build you will do fine in most encounters.
If you are gong for super competitive scores or something maybe it's an issue. Or multiplayer.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Well, knocking mechs down is far worse than "not efficient". Its bad. It will lose you missions you could have otherwise easily beaten. I don't think the game is even really completable if that is the general strategy you're going for.
It takes between 3 and 7(?) wounds to KO a pilot. It takes at least 2 actions on the same round to knock down a mech. This is because there is a damage gate on a stable mech which prevents them from falling over regardless of the stability damage they take. It would be theoretically possible to knock down three mechs in a round if you had one guy who would spread stability damage to 3 enemies each round while the three others did max stability damage... and none of your target mechs stabalized themselves in the mean time by like, moving or bracing. But this is more or less impossible. This means it takes between 6 to 10 actions to KO a pilot using stability damage.
The only way to do enough damage to KO a pilot by wounds is to cause ammo explosions and destroy right/left torso sections. But if you're going to do that you might as well just kill the mech. The side torso together have at least 150% HP of the CT. So shaving off both is unlikely and difficulty. And... if you can shave off the torso's you don't have a knockdown build. You have a damage build that just happens to have some stability damage.
There is some value to stability damage. The two main uses cases are vs light mechs as making a mech unstable strips all its evasion pips and so as to generate extra called shots when you knock a mech down. But the first one is also solved by any low variance damage as if you can hit a mech with stability damage you can hit them with regular damage. And the second one takes three actions in your turn. Which is difficult as above to ensure the target doesn't just get up. But also becomes obsolete as soon as you have decent morale because your morale generation will be high enough for 1+ called shot/turn anyway
Max efficency in battletech isn't neccessary in most cases. It isn't that hard a game. Knowing what is max efficient can be useful if you find yourself in a sticky situation, but if you run a knockdown build you will do fine in most encounters.
If you are gong for super competitive scores or something maybe it's an issue. Or multiplayer.
Spot on.
There are people who have beaten the campaign or finished careers using only AC/2's, there's probably someone who's done it using only small lasers or MGs at this point - it isn't necessary to micro-analyse and optimise everything.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
Well, knocking mechs down is far worse than "not efficient". Its bad. It will lose you missions you could have otherwise easily beaten. I don't think the game is even really completable if that is the general strategy you're going for.
It takes between 3 and 7(?) wounds to KO a pilot. It takes at least 2 actions on the same round to knock down a mech. This is because there is a damage gate on a stable mech which prevents them from falling over regardless of the stability damage they take. It would be theoretically possible to knock down three mechs in a round if you had one guy who would spread stability damage to 3 enemies each round while the three others did max stability damage... and none of your target mechs stabalized themselves in the mean time by like, moving or bracing. But this is more or less impossible. This means it takes between 6 to 10 actions to KO a pilot using stability damage.
The only way to do enough damage to KO a pilot by wounds is to cause ammo explosions and destroy right/left torso sections. But if you're going to do that you might as well just kill the mech. The side torso together have at least 150% HP of the CT. So shaving off both is unlikely and difficulty. And... if you can shave off the torso's you don't have a knockdown build. You have a damage build that just happens to have some stability damage.
There is some value to stability damage. The two main uses cases are vs light mechs as making a mech unstable strips all its evasion pips and so as to generate extra called shots when you knock a mech down. But the first one is also solved by any low variance damage as if you can hit a mech with stability damage you can hit them with regular damage. And the second one takes three actions in your turn. Which is difficult as above to ensure the target doesn't just get up. But also becomes obsolete as soon as you have decent morale because your morale generation will be high enough for 1+ called shot/turn anyway
Dude was given a suggestion to outfit a single mech with a knockdown build for that mech. This is not going to break his game. I don't....really know where you got the whole trying to kill pilots by repeatedly knocking them down thing from, but I wasn't suggesting it, nor, I think, was anyone else?
363 damage plus able to max out the stability on a mech so it loses all its evasion pips, and potentially gets easily knocked down for a completely free called shot isn't really any grounds to claim "This is compeletely useless" It's not like he's choosing between killing or not killing. It's two birds with one stone. In what world is free called shots without any downsides a bad thing? He can use his morale abilities too! He gets to do both.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
MWO lag has made the game basically 100% unplayable. If I get into a NA server it might only be iffy, but Oceanic and Eurpoean servers my light mechs simply cannot do damage. It's like the game can't bother keeping up with me and just gives me little snapshots of where the other players are every .5 seconds.
I've been having lag issues ever since we started playing it again, just random hitches, losing control for a few moments or, when really bad, mechs teleporting.
Is this something recent? I don't remember it being an issue a couple of years back, not enough to stick in mind at least.
I've been having lag issues ever since we started playing it again, just random hitches, losing control for a few moments or, when really bad, mechs teleporting.
Is this something recent? I don't remember it being an issue a couple of years back, not enough to stick in mind at least.
I never noticed or remembered it from fall 2020 when I kind of stopped playing. I've also added RAM, upgraded my GPU, and moved to a SSD since then so not sure what to attribute it to, though some rounds playing just fine and since it feels like being on other servers makes it worse I suspect lag. The bars are also red when clicking "find match" way more than I remember.
are there locations where mechs do and don't show up or something, because I have yet to see a single kintaro in either stores or as enemies to scrap, and I'd really like those 5 missile hardpoints
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
are there locations where mechs do and don't show up or something, because I have yet to see a single kintaro in either stores or as enemies to scrap, and I'd really like those 5 missile hardpoints
Yeah, there are locations where you're more likely to run into certain mechs. Can't tell you where that is for Kintaros though. They're also pretty rare mechs on the whole so you can't rely on being able to get one in the medium era.
The other night none of us could ready up for some 10s because the button wouldn't respond for any of us.
I had some blips here and there, but nothing what is being said here. I finally did manage to finish off the entire event last night. Had to shoot down 2 UAVs and got 3 on Terra Therma in my 2ERPPC Panther. Overheated like crazy but it was worth it. Plus got the win.
The longest drought was components. Was striking out with all my normal cheese combos (HGauss, LBXs, MGs, etc.) and got fed up. Rebuilt my 6cSPL Arctic Cheetah and blew through the rest. So amazing watching people not understand the ECM disrupt and getting cored out from behind.
Unfortunately even when you can knock mechs down its not efficient to do so.
[Battletech]
It’s probably not efficient to build for. That said, I try to ensure my mechs can all deal at least some stability damage when there’s an opportunity to knock down a heavy that lucked out and took a bunch of damage spread out across its armor, but is teetering a bit. Which is easy, since I run an LRM15 or two LRM5s on everything.
Late-game and doing flashpoints, I’ve found a home for every UAC2 +dmg and Lg Pls +dmg that I caught on sale, de-emphasizing stability damage and going for reach and damage output. ERPPCs all run too bloody hot, the AC20’s limited range kills its usefulness for me, and the DPS machine SRMs aren’t flexible enough, in a campaign where the order in which you take out enemies is of paramount importance.
When there’s an actual threat on the board, having a Javelin or Spider in range to be hilariously overkilled by some battery of short-range weapons doesn’t help me remove it.
Zoku Gojira on
"Because things are the way they are, things will not stay the way they are." - Bertolt Brecht
Sooo, last night I ran my first mission where I had someone get killed in it (Medusa) but I ended up with another piece of a Marauder. I'm torn on what I should do next. On one hand I really was trying to keep the main group alive by save scumming, but I do have 2/3 Marauder pieces now... I did hire a new pilot before this mission and been painfully leveling them (it really sucks trying to level a crappy pilot). So I'm posting here to get some input on if I should reload and keep Medusa alive? I already did one reload since my Phoenix Hawk lost a part on the same mission). How does everyone else play it? I also want to add that I maxxed Medusa on two stats already. My core team was always Behemoth, Medusa, Glitch and me. Dekker would swap in from time to time when one of them was in the med bay.
Ah, I see my time with MWO has entered the "every match is a 12-0 stomp where my team gets pinned down and completely wrecked, over and over and over and over and over" phase. Perhaps it's time to put it down until the next event starts, when the matchmaking gets diluted with other casuals like myself.
Ah, I see my time with MWO has entered the "every match is a 12-0 stomp where my team gets pinned down and completely wrecked, over and over and over and over and over" phase. Perhaps it's time to put it down until the next event starts, when the matchmaking gets diluted with other casuals like myself.
Yikes. When that happens I tend to start playing with my odder and funny builds. Heck, if I'm going down I might as well have fun playing. But seriously though, that sucks and probably should just wait for the weekend warriors to return.
Ah, I see my time with MWO has entered the "every match is a 12-0 stomp where my team gets pinned down and completely wrecked, over and over and over and over and over" phase. Perhaps it's time to put it down until the next event starts, when the matchmaking gets diluted with other casuals like myself.
Yikes. When that happens I tend to start playing with my odder and funny builds. Heck, if I'm going down I might as well have fun playing. But seriously though, that sucks and probably should just wait for the weekend warriors to return.
I had a day like that on Monday. Turned my Raven into a LPPC and ERLL sniper because why not.
Ended up doing 500 damage and won a 2v2 at the end of the match alongside an armless Piranha.
I went with the advice from the boards and pushed on. Fitting that I actually got the name of my fallen MechWarrior wrong. I lost Behemoth when took the full brunt of the enemy forces in her Centurion. Fitting because I tend to forget people's names in real life. Anyways. Next mission I flew to a 2 skull one since my mechs were really beaten up and I felt they needed a break from the 3 skull ones I have been doing. It was an easy mission, find a traitor and remind him why he is a bad person. Dropped in my Firestarter, Phoenix Hawk, Trebuchet and Kintaro. Yep, was a nice change of pace wiping out 3 lights and one medium then coring out the Jagermech from behind. Took on a 3 skull after that and bagged my first Crab, and hired one new pilot as well. This is becoming more fun for me now that I dropped my heavies (used to run a Catapult and Dragon) and going all mediums and a light. The Trebuchet was replaced with the new Crab. I'll miss the two Large Lasers, but think the mobility will be much better for my play style. I've begun to like jumping behind mechs and coring them out. Makes it so much faster.
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
The Dragon is no better than a medium and is slower to boot. The Catapult is a solid starter heavy though, and could make a good anvil for your mediums to hammer against.
Then again if your style is ALL MOBILITY ALL THE TIME maybe you're best off staying with mediums and lights and targetting buying some Star League mediums from the Black Market.
The Dragon is no better than a medium and is slower to boot. The Catapult is a solid starter heavy though, and could make a good anvil for your mediums to hammer against.
Then again if your style is ALL MOBILITY ALL THE TIME maybe you're best off staying with mediums and lights and targetting buying some Star League mediums from the Black Market.
Yeah, I really REALLY tried to make the Dragon work... It just... Was not good at all. Since it is a Heavy it was last to move and first to get targeted (since I would have it near the front line trying to be the damage sponge). My Catapult adventures were it being a SplatCat at the beginning, then the boxes kept on getting blown off, so I changed it to a LRM support boat. The problem I saw is that I kept on going up against more and more Heavies in the enemy lances and it would shred my three mediums or 2 mediums and 1 light. Once I went to all mediums and a light (for vehicle stomping) it has been much better. I honestly play mobility over armor in MWO so it sort of suits me. I tend to be up and in their faces as well. I haven't played enough to buddy up to the black market yet. Probably because I have this problem of grinding in games and not moving the story along when I probably should.
Early on your pilots generally aren't skilled up in Tactics, which eventually removes both minimum range and indirect fire penalties and makes LRMs much more flexible. So the stock build Catapult isn't always best early on.
With your lance of mediums/light, you might consider rebuilding it as a jumpy brawler w 2x SRM6, 4x ML, 2x SL and lots of armor and heat sinks. With your newfound love of coring mechs out from behind, I think you'll find that build particularly effective at this point in the game (the sort of 2-3.5 skull range).
Early on your pilots generally aren't skilled up in Tactics, which eventually removes both minimum range and indirect fire penalties and makes LRMs much more flexible. So the stock build Catapult isn't always best early on.
With your lance of mediums/light, you might consider rebuilding it as a jumpy brawler w 2x SRMs, 4xML, 2xSL and lots of armor and heat sinks. With your newfound love of coring mechs out from behind, I think you'll find that build particularly effective at this point in the game (the sort of 2-3.5 skull range).
I believe that my Kintaro is sort of like that build you recommend. The Trebuchet only had 1 JJ so it could only bunny hop (and the reason it got dropped). Phoenix Hawk showed me the light of full JJs and much happiness is had with the 2ML, 2SL compliment coring out mechs. I originally would run the Firestarter (I think with 6SL or something like that) behind the mechs, now I'm jumping behind them.
Coring out all the mechs with less damage to my team makes it so much more fun for me. I remember hating it and getting mad since I really wanted to like this game. I do still hate how you have to sort of cheat to win, but at least I'm having fun again. Reason I say that is that I just wish I could play a mission where the sides were even. Not me against 2 lances and a bunch of vehicles/turrets.
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Between the two, I'd say the Centurion CN9-A is a better missile boat than the Shadowhawk because the Shadowhawk has one of its missile hardpoints in the head, limiting it to an SRM2 or LRM5 there. The Centurion has 3 missile hardpoints in the side torso but that's not an actual limitation because you can't fill all those crit slots before running out of weight.
The Shadowhawk's higher tonnage and higher melee damage means it's better close up than sitting in the back.
I do have 2 shadowhawks so I could just phase out the centurion for a second one
You can fit 3x SRM6 if you so choose, or a pile of LRMs.
I'm honestly not a fan of missiles though so to me the Shadowhawk and Centurion are roughly equivalent.
Negligible heat as well.
In my current career, I just dipped into Liao space at a black market system and there were four UAC/2++'s!!
Swoon!!!
Steam profile.
Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
Well for additional consideration, a Shadowhawk can, at most, fit 45 LRM tubes or 14 SRM tubes. A Centurion could theoretically fit 50 LRM tubes or 18 SRM tubes. But more importantly, due to the smaller engine the Centurion also has 3.5 more tons of free space than a Shadowhawk. Meaning a Centurion with 30 LRM tubes can have 3.5 extra tons of armor, ammo, or other weapons than a Shadowhawk with 30 LRM tubes. A 45 tube Centurion would actually have 4.5 extra tons vs a 45 tube Shadowhawk.
So... yes BUT.. AC/2 Range = 480/720. AC/5 Range = 360/540.
AC/2 DPH -> 25/4 = 6.25
AC/5 DPH -> 45/8 = 5.65
They have longer range than LRM and LRM has DPH 3.33 (LRM's have DPRT of about 10 but they also do this in 4 dmg increments and this has other issues*). Its longer range than Gauss Rifles.
So there are still some reasons to fit AC/2. AC/2 (and particularly UAC/2) also get relatively more value from ++ dmg increases. +10 dmg makes the AC 2 hit 35 dmg (8.75 DPH, 5.83 DPRT, compared to ++ AC/5 of DPRT 6.875). If these still seem low to you consider that a Gauss Rifle, one of the better weapons in the game has DPRT between 5 and 5.77.
This means that it is legitimately possible to put AC/2s on a mech with low armor and jump jets and just have them provide damage from outside of the enemies effective range.
In actuality its really the AC/5 that is left out in the cold. Its range isn't that much higher than the AC/10. But it has a short range penalty whereas the AC/10 does not. And the AC/10 has better better DPRT (due to relative ammo weight) and a much better(read higher) variance. The AC/5 has slightly better recoil tolerance but whatever.
*Dmg is rounded down iirc so almost any amount of DR makes LRM's drop to 3 dmg and sometimes down to 2 dmg. The low variance also hurts them. 25 isn't a huge amount of damage but AC/2 is relatively high variance compared to LRM
Anyway my list of best ballistics
God Tier: These weapons are dumb. They're frankly absurd. Their only weaknesses is your limitation to fit more of them.
UAC/2++: 5 tonnes, 35 x 2 dmg, 8 heat...
UAC/20++: 12 tonnes, 120 x 2 dmg, who fucking cares how much heat it uses this thing will headcap through 40% DR.
Still proper dumb: Still really good, easy to design a mech around
UAC/10 : 60 x 2 dmg to 450 range.
AC/10++: Only the ++ version with dmg since 70 dmg is enough to headcap an unbraced mech, which only it, an ERPPC+, Gauss Rifle, AC/20, and L Pulse ++ can do.
Really Good: Worth Using most of the time. Most mechs that can fit these can use these effectively
AC/10: I find this is generally easier to use than the AC/20. The AC/20 however does have the chance to one shot light mechs which is a big advantage earlier in the game.
AC/20: AC/20 in the arm with a called shot to the CT.. gives actually a pretty decent chance to one shot a light mech which can easily turn the tide of an early fight.
OK: They do their jobs
AC/5
AC/2++ (only the +dmg ones)
Bad: You can make them work if you have a specific purpose for them.
AC/2 without +dmg
Super Bad
All LB-X: Special mention here because LB-X are both BAD and rare. The LB-X/2 ++ would be a really good weapon if you could get a bunch of them early in the game... It does 72 dmg to 720 range for zero height and weighs 5 tonnes. But its hella high variance and rare. And every other LBX is worse.
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General fitting stuff
I would say that the first mistake people make is to not refit for more armor, but the second mistake people make is having too much armor and not enough heat usage. A long range mech that really does sit in the back and lob missiles/shoots AC/2... Doesn't need a lot of armor.
Post rebalancing, though, the tonnage and damage spread is too great for LRMs (except maybe for some of the +2 dam variants) You often have to be killing a mech/vehicle/turret (or two) per turn to avoid getting overwhelmed by superior numbers. SRMs still make sense as low weight/heat damage output for your brawler/shotgunners, but generally I'm dropping LRMs from stock builds for deadlier options.
(I'm comfortable with this approach, but it has made missions with turrets a lot deadlier as I have to be in sight of them. Turrets were one thing that was decidedly easier with large quantities of indirect fire!)
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Before today I actually thought the archer was like 50 tonnes. At 70 I could see it being used in a lategame Lance. 2x LRM20++(+) is 120 dmg. Which isn’t assault lance damage but it’s pretty good when it’s clumped up
If you like knockdowns, as an alternative build, an Archer with 4x SRM, 1x SnubPPC in their +Stability Damage variants, can do up to 255 Stability damage. Enough to fully destabilize any non-Surefooted mech, including an Annihilator, in a single shot. It's potential 363 damage ain't bad either.
If you are gong for super competitive scores or something maybe it's an issue. Or multiplayer.
It takes between 3 and 7(?) wounds to KO a pilot. It takes at least 2 actions on the same round to knock down a mech. This is because there is a damage gate on a stable mech which prevents them from falling over regardless of the stability damage they take. It would be theoretically possible to knock down three mechs in a round if you had one guy who would spread stability damage to 3 enemies each round while the three others did max stability damage... and none of your target mechs stabalized themselves in the mean time by like, moving or bracing. But this is more or less impossible. This means it takes between 6 to 10 actions to KO a pilot using stability damage.
The only way to do enough damage to KO a pilot by wounds is to cause ammo explosions and destroy right/left torso sections. But if you're going to do that you might as well just kill the mech. The side torso together have at least 150% HP of the CT. So shaving off both is unlikely and difficulty. And... if you can shave off the torso's you don't have a knockdown build. You have a damage build that just happens to have some stability damage.
There is some value to stability damage. The two main uses cases are vs light mechs as making a mech unstable strips all its evasion pips and so as to generate extra called shots when you knock a mech down. But the first one is also solved by any low variance damage as if you can hit a mech with stability damage you can hit them with regular damage. And the second one takes three actions in your turn. Which is difficult as above to ensure the target doesn't just get up. But also becomes obsolete as soon as you have decent morale because your morale generation will be high enough for 1+ called shot/turn anyway
Spot on.
There are people who have beaten the campaign or finished careers using only AC/2's, there's probably someone who's done it using only small lasers or MGs at this point - it isn't necessary to micro-analyse and optimise everything.
Dude was given a suggestion to outfit a single mech with a knockdown build for that mech. This is not going to break his game. I don't....really know where you got the whole trying to kill pilots by repeatedly knocking them down thing from, but I wasn't suggesting it, nor, I think, was anyone else?
363 damage plus able to max out the stability on a mech so it loses all its evasion pips, and potentially gets easily knocked down for a completely free called shot isn't really any grounds to claim "This is compeletely useless" It's not like he's choosing between killing or not killing. It's two birds with one stone. In what world is free called shots without any downsides a bad thing? He can use his morale abilities too! He gets to do both.
Is this something recent? I don't remember it being an issue a couple of years back, not enough to stick in mind at least.
I never noticed or remembered it from fall 2020 when I kind of stopped playing. I've also added RAM, upgraded my GPU, and moved to a SSD since then so not sure what to attribute it to, though some rounds playing just fine and since it feels like being on other servers makes it worse I suspect lag. The bars are also red when clicking "find match" way more than I remember.
Yeah, there are locations where you're more likely to run into certain mechs. Can't tell you where that is for Kintaros though. They're also pretty rare mechs on the whole so you can't rely on being able to get one in the medium era.
I had some blips here and there, but nothing what is being said here. I finally did manage to finish off the entire event last night. Had to shoot down 2 UAVs and got 3 on Terra Therma in my 2ERPPC Panther. Overheated like crazy but it was worth it. Plus got the win.
The longest drought was components. Was striking out with all my normal cheese combos (HGauss, LBXs, MGs, etc.) and got fed up. Rebuilt my 6cSPL Arctic Cheetah and blew through the rest. So amazing watching people not understand the ECM disrupt and getting cored out from behind.
Steam: betsuni7
It’s probably not efficient to build for. That said, I try to ensure my mechs can all deal at least some stability damage when there’s an opportunity to knock down a heavy that lucked out and took a bunch of damage spread out across its armor, but is teetering a bit. Which is easy, since I run an LRM15 or two LRM5s on everything.
Late-game and doing flashpoints, I’ve found a home for every UAC2 +dmg and Lg Pls +dmg that I caught on sale, de-emphasizing stability damage and going for reach and damage output. ERPPCs all run too bloody hot, the AC20’s limited range kills its usefulness for me, and the DPS machine SRMs aren’t flexible enough, in a campaign where the order in which you take out enemies is of paramount importance.
When there’s an actual threat on the board, having a Javelin or Spider in range to be hilariously overkilled by some battery of short-range weapons doesn’t help me remove it.
Sooo, last night I ran my first mission where I had someone get killed in it (Medusa) but I ended up with another piece of a Marauder. I'm torn on what I should do next. On one hand I really was trying to keep the main group alive by save scumming, but I do have 2/3 Marauder pieces now... I did hire a new pilot before this mission and been painfully leveling them (it really sucks trying to level a crappy pilot). So I'm posting here to get some input on if I should reload and keep Medusa alive? I already did one reload since my Phoenix Hawk lost a part on the same mission). How does everyone else play it? I also want to add that I maxxed Medusa on two stats already. My core team was always Behemoth, Medusa, Glitch and me. Dekker would swap in from time to time when one of them was in the med bay.
Steam: betsuni7
Steam: betsuni7
Yikes. When that happens I tend to start playing with my odder and funny builds. Heck, if I'm going down I might as well have fun playing. But seriously though, that sucks and probably should just wait for the weekend warriors to return.
Steam: betsuni7
I had a day like that on Monday. Turned my Raven into a LPPC and ERLL sniper because why not.
Ended up doing 500 damage and won a 2v2 at the end of the match alongside an armless Piranha.
I went with the advice from the boards and pushed on. Fitting that I actually got the name of my fallen MechWarrior wrong. I lost Behemoth when took the full brunt of the enemy forces in her Centurion. Fitting because I tend to forget people's names in real life. Anyways. Next mission I flew to a 2 skull one since my mechs were really beaten up and I felt they needed a break from the 3 skull ones I have been doing. It was an easy mission, find a traitor and remind him why he is a bad person. Dropped in my Firestarter, Phoenix Hawk, Trebuchet and Kintaro. Yep, was a nice change of pace wiping out 3 lights and one medium then coring out the Jagermech from behind. Took on a 3 skull after that and bagged my first Crab, and hired one new pilot as well. This is becoming more fun for me now that I dropped my heavies (used to run a Catapult and Dragon) and going all mediums and a light. The Trebuchet was replaced with the new Crab. I'll miss the two Large Lasers, but think the mobility will be much better for my play style. I've begun to like jumping behind mechs and coring them out. Makes it so much faster.
Steam: betsuni7
Then again if your style is ALL MOBILITY ALL THE TIME maybe you're best off staying with mediums and lights and targetting buying some Star League mediums from the Black Market.
Yeah, I really REALLY tried to make the Dragon work... It just... Was not good at all. Since it is a Heavy it was last to move and first to get targeted (since I would have it near the front line trying to be the damage sponge). My Catapult adventures were it being a SplatCat at the beginning, then the boxes kept on getting blown off, so I changed it to a LRM support boat. The problem I saw is that I kept on going up against more and more Heavies in the enemy lances and it would shred my three mediums or 2 mediums and 1 light. Once I went to all mediums and a light (for vehicle stomping) it has been much better. I honestly play mobility over armor in MWO so it sort of suits me. I tend to be up and in their faces as well. I haven't played enough to buddy up to the black market yet. Probably because I have this problem of grinding in games and not moving the story along when I probably should.
Steam: betsuni7
Early on your pilots generally aren't skilled up in Tactics, which eventually removes both minimum range and indirect fire penalties and makes LRMs much more flexible. So the stock build Catapult isn't always best early on.
With your lance of mediums/light, you might consider rebuilding it as a jumpy brawler w 2x SRM6, 4x ML, 2x SL and lots of armor and heat sinks. With your newfound love of coring mechs out from behind, I think you'll find that build particularly effective at this point in the game (the sort of 2-3.5 skull range).
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Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
I believe that my Kintaro is sort of like that build you recommend. The Trebuchet only had 1 JJ so it could only bunny hop (and the reason it got dropped). Phoenix Hawk showed me the light of full JJs and much happiness is had with the 2ML, 2SL compliment coring out mechs. I originally would run the Firestarter (I think with 6SL or something like that) behind the mechs, now I'm jumping behind them.
Coring out all the mechs with less damage to my team makes it so much more fun for me. I remember hating it and getting mad since I really wanted to like this game. I do still hate how you have to sort of cheat to win, but at least I'm having fun again. Reason I say that is that I just wish I could play a mission where the sides were even. Not me against 2 lances and a bunch of vehicles/turrets.
Steam: betsuni7