As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
Options

[US Foreign Policy] Peace For Sale

19192949697101

Posts

  • Options
    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Kaputa wrote: »
    Taking Sudan off of the terror list is unambiguously good; even if their inclusion was originally justified, the government that was placed on that list was overthrown last year, so there was no reason to keep them on it.

    A lot of people in Sudan, including political leaders, are understandably angry at the government for normalizing relations with Israel, with some saying the agreement is illegitimate as it was signed by an unelected transitional government.

    I must admit that getting Sudan, UAE, and Bahrain to normalize relations in the space of a couple months is a pretty significant diplomatic win for the Trump administration. Which isn't meant to imply that it's a good thing - I see it as a betrayal of Palestine and a legitimization of settler colonialism - but for Israel and its supporters here I think it's a major win, even if those Gulf monarchies had been tacitly cooperating with Israel for some time already.

    I don’t think it is that significant internationally, it is basically a case of saying the quiet part out loud, the governments of those areas already decided the position years ago.

    I don’t know what it says exactly about the internal politics that they feel so comfortable being open about it though. I feel like UAE and Bahrain are a stalking horse for Saudi Arabia here, and if Saudi Arabia outright recognizes Israel that will be pretty significant in and of itself.

  • Options
    JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    I think a peace agreement between Isreal and Saudi Arabia would be the big one. Would basically signal to Palestine that Syria and Iran are their only allies.

  • Options
    TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    edited October 2020
    I think a peace agreement between Isreal and Saudi Arabia would be the big one. Would basically signal to Palestine that Syria and Iran are their only allies.

    Trump is saying that Saudi Arabia is the next on the list after Sudan, and an Israeli defense officer is saying this:
    A senior defense official on Thursday predicted Saudi Arabia would soon move to normalize ties with Israel.

    The comments by the official, who spoke to reporters as Defense Minister Benny Gantz visited America, came amid reports that Sudan was poised to follow the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain in normalizing diplomatic relations with the Jewish state.
    “Soon Sudan and later Saudi Arabia will come out of the closet,” the official was quoted saying by Hebrew media, without further elaborating.

    And on the same article, Saudi sources are pretty much saying that this is pure realpolitik and sausage making:
    In a recent interview, the former Saudi ambassador to the US and former intelligence chief Prince Bandar bin Sultan called Palestinian leaders “failures” who squandered opportunities for peace over decades.

    “The Palestinian cause is a just cause, but its advocates are failures. The Israeli cause is unjust, but its advocates are successful. That sums up the events of the last 70 or 75 years,” bin Sultan said.

    So odds are that the Saudi Arabia signs a deal next month.

    People talk about "a" solution, but here's the detail: "Palestine loses and stops existing" is "a" solution. And yeah, Dems aren't undoing this with the more moderate wing in charge and dudes like Schumer around.

    TryCatcher on
  • Options
    TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    edited October 2020
    Also, people saying "well, those countries weren't at war with each other!" are completely missing the point. This is a hard redrawing of the geopolitical map, with Israel and small client states on one side, and Iran and whoever decides to go with them on the other.

    That's it, those are the two options. So anybody that doesn't sign with Israel better have real, tangible backing from Iran, else they are kinda screwed.

    TryCatcher on
  • Options
    HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Also, people saying "well, those countries weren't at war with each other!" are completely missing the point. This is a hard redrawing of the geopolitical map, with Israel and small client states on one side, and Iran and whoever decides to go with them on the other.

    That's it, those are the two options. So anybody that doesn't sign with Israel better have real, tangible backing from Iran, else they are kinda screwed.

    Despite their past history of punching above their weight class, Israel is small potatoes compared to Saudi Arabia. If anyone is leading the anti-Iranian side its them. Israel is just an ally of convenience and a friend of a friend.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • Options
    Kane Red RobeKane Red Robe Master of Magic ArcanusRegistered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Also, people saying "well, those countries weren't at war with each other!" are completely missing the point. This is a hard redrawing of the geopolitical map, with Israel and small client states on one side, and Iran and whoever decides to go with them on the other.

    That's it, those are the two options. So anybody that doesn't sign with Israel better have real, tangible backing from Iran, else they are kinda screwed.

    Despite their past history of punching above their weight class, Israel is small potatoes compared to Saudi Arabia. If anyone is leading the anti-Iranian side its them. Israel is just an ally of convenience and a friend of a friend.

    Doesn't Saudi Arabia's army bear all the same hallmarks of a corrupt, brittle colonial army that the Iraqi army had right before it got smashed by ISIS? Namely very expensive hardware, looks good on paper, officers are completely useless jackasses, grunts have zero morale due to said officers?

  • Options
    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Israel has already beaten basically the entire region in a simultaneous war. It was a while ago, but they're definitely the big military player in the region.

  • Options
    KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    True, but didn't they also basically lose their last incursion against Hamas?

  • Options
    zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    When it comes to the Middle East, I'm not even sure what to hope for anymore.

    The two state solution died before I got pubes. Everything is terrible there, but where isn't right now? Anything we try to do makes things worse and we need to get our own house in order before we fix anywhere else.

    At this point, and I feel terrible even saying it because I know this is lives and misery.

    Can it just stay at the current simmer while the rest of the world tries to get their shit straight?

  • Options
    cckerberoscckerberos Registered User regular
    Krieghund wrote: »
    True, but didn't they also basically lose their last incursion against Hamas?

    I think it could be argued that the incursion was an overall failure, but I'm not sure that I'd describe that as Israel losing.

    cckerberos.png
  • Options
    HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Also, people saying "well, those countries weren't at war with each other!" are completely missing the point. This is a hard redrawing of the geopolitical map, with Israel and small client states on one side, and Iran and whoever decides to go with them on the other.

    That's it, those are the two options. So anybody that doesn't sign with Israel better have real, tangible backing from Iran, else they are kinda screwed.

    Despite their past history of punching above their weight class, Israel is small potatoes compared to Saudi Arabia. If anyone is leading the anti-Iranian side its them. Israel is just an ally of convenience and a friend of a friend.

    Doesn't Saudi Arabia's army bear all the same hallmarks of a corrupt, brittle colonial army that the Iraqi army had right before it got smashed by ISIS? Namely very expensive hardware, looks good on paper, officers are completely useless jackasses, grunts have zero morale due to said officers?

    They've had no problem running a proxy war in Yemen for like years now. A straightforward military conflict between Israel and Saudi Arabia, or Saudi Arabia and Iran, or Israel and Iran is probably not as likely or important as who can weald the most influence in the region. And basically everyone hates Israel, regardless of any lipservice to appease the US, and they don't have the deep coffers and economic weight of Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia and Iran are the regional super powers in this conflict, and they are the ones collecting client states. Israel is just the well armed wildcard in the middle who's words are backed by nuclear weapons.

    That Saudi Arabia seems to be willing to more or less ally with Israel against Iran is pretty significant in terms of shifting the overall balance of power.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • Options
    JuliusJulius Captain of Serenity on my shipRegistered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    I think a peace agreement between Isreal and Saudi Arabia would be the big one. Would basically signal to Palestine that Syria and Iran are their only allies.

    Trump is saying that Saudi Arabia is the next on the list after Sudan,

    yeah but Saudi Arabia can't be enticed with removal from the State Sponsors of Terrorism list because they aren't on it. (unrelated, 15 of 19 of 9/11 hijackers were Saudi Arabian)
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Also, people saying "well, those countries weren't at war with each other!" are completely missing the point. This is a hard redrawing of the geopolitical map, with Israel and small client states on one side, and Iran and whoever decides to go with them on the other.

    That's it, those are the two options. So anybody that doesn't sign with Israel better have real, tangible backing from Iran, else they are kinda screwed.

    Despite their past history of punching above their weight class, Israel is small potatoes compared to Saudi Arabia. If anyone is leading the anti-Iranian side its them. Israel is just an ally of convenience and a friend of a friend.

    Doesn't Saudi Arabia's army bear all the same hallmarks of a corrupt, brittle colonial army that the Iraqi army had right before it got smashed by ISIS? Namely very expensive hardware, looks good on paper, officers are completely useless jackasses, grunts have zero morale due to said officers?

    may very well be true, but the crux in all this is that it's about US support. No need for a good army if you got an ally able to obliterate the enemy at any time. also very little use for a good army if the world's largest weapons trader won't sell you shit.

    SA may have refused to recognize Israel for obvious reasons, but at the end of the day there is zero doubt as to who they're allied with.

  • Options
    RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    I thought the successful drone attack on the Saudi oil field (last year?) pretty much proved that Saudi Arabia is incredibly vulnerable. Picking the wrong fight could absolutely destroy their oil infrastructure and cripple them no matter if they roll over their opponent in the end.

    I feel the current "saying the quiet part loud" is mostly about conservative shit head governments trying to normalize their craptacular style of governance, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone didn't look at the decline of American soft power worldwide and realize that the 800lbs gorilla demanding stability in the oil markets has left the room and that alliances need to be soldified before someone starts flexing on everyone else

    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
    Edcrab's Exigency RPG
  • Options
    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Julius wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    I think a peace agreement between Isreal and Saudi Arabia would be the big one. Would basically signal to Palestine that Syria and Iran are their only allies.

    Trump is saying that Saudi Arabia is the next on the list after Sudan,

    yeah but Saudi Arabia can't be enticed with removal from the State Sponsors of Terrorism list because they aren't on it. (unrelated, 15 of 19 of 9/11 hijackers were Saudi Arabian)

    Similarly unrelated, so was Osama Bin Laden.

  • Options
    TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Ringo wrote: »
    I thought the successful drone attack on the Saudi oil field (last year?) pretty much proved that Saudi Arabia is incredibly vulnerable. Picking the wrong fight could absolutely destroy their oil infrastructure and cripple them no matter if they roll over their opponent in the end.

    I feel the current "saying the quiet part loud" is mostly about conservative shit head governments trying to normalize their craptacular style of governance, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone didn't look at the decline of American soft power worldwide and realize that the 800lbs gorilla demanding stability in the oil markets has left the room and that alliances need to be soldified before someone starts flexing on everyone else

    Overall, what every analysis that I've read says is that the US is going to be focused entirely on the Pacific to contain China. While bad news for Europe, we are seeing more engagement with countries like Japan, Australia and India.

  • Options
    MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Doesn't Saudi Arabia's army bear all the same hallmarks of a corrupt, brittle colonial army that the Iraqi army had right before it got smashed by ISIS? Namely very expensive hardware, looks good on paper, officers are completely useless jackasses, grunts have zero morale due to said officers?

    Even worse, because the actual soldiers who do the actual fighting in the Saudi Army are effectively mercenaries, only even sadder than you were thinking: teenagers brought over from Somalia and other majority-Muslim areas of east Africa with promises of riches and thrown into the meat grinder. Zero morale because zero training, zero support, often zero language comprehension, plus utterly incompetent useless officers who are just rich brats there to get a fancy uniform to take pictures in. The Saudis would be losing their invasion of Yemen if they weren't basically unlimited numbers of poor Somali boys willing to get recruited for the chance at a paycheck (hell, parents will bribe recruiters to take their sons).

  • Options
    HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Ringo wrote: »
    I thought the successful drone attack on the Saudi oil field (last year?) pretty much proved that Saudi Arabia is incredibly vulnerable. Picking the wrong fight could absolutely destroy their oil infrastructure and cripple them no matter if they roll over their opponent in the end.

    I feel the current "saying the quiet part loud" is mostly about conservative shit head governments trying to normalize their craptacular style of governance, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone didn't look at the decline of American soft power worldwide and realize that the 800lbs gorilla demanding stability in the oil markets has left the room and that alliances need to be soldified before someone starts flexing on everyone else

    Overall, what every analysis that I've read says is that the US is going to be focused entirely on the Pacific to contain China. While bad news for Europe, we are seeing more engagement with countries like Japan, Australia and India.

    I mean we had a plan to try and contain China's influence.

    And then it got scrapped because "RAWR, OBAMA BAD"

    I'm not even sure how we get back to that point.

  • Options
    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited October 2020
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Also, people saying "well, those countries weren't at war with each other!" are completely missing the point. This is a hard redrawing of the geopolitical map, with Israel and small client states on one side, and Iran and whoever decides to go with them on the other.

    That's it, those are the two options. So anybody that doesn't sign with Israel better have real, tangible backing from Iran, else they are kinda screwed.

    Despite their past history of punching above their weight class, Israel is small potatoes compared to Saudi Arabia. If anyone is leading the anti-Iranian side its them. Israel is just an ally of convenience and a friend of a friend.

    Doesn't Saudi Arabia's army bear all the same hallmarks of a corrupt, brittle colonial army that the Iraqi army had right before it got smashed by ISIS? Namely very expensive hardware, looks good on paper, officers are completely useless jackasses, grunts have zero morale due to said officers?

    They've had no problem running a proxy war in Yemen for like years now. A straightforward military conflict between Israel and Saudi Arabia, or Saudi Arabia and Iran, or Israel and Iran is probably not as likely or important as who can weald the most influence in the region. And basically everyone hates Israel, regardless of any lipservice to appease the US, and they don't have the deep coffers and economic weight of Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia and Iran are the regional super powers in this conflict, and they are the ones collecting client states. Israel is just the well armed wildcard in the middle who's words are backed by nuclear weapons.

    That Saudi Arabia seems to be willing to more or less ally with Israel against Iran is pretty significant in terms of shifting the overall balance of power.
    I agree with your analysis overall, but if we're discussing regional power, Turkey shouldn't be forgotten. I'd say they are the strongest power in the region by a wide margin, more so than the KSA or Iran, and that the main thing stopping them from becoming really dominant is Russian power, as in Syria, Libya, and, farther afield, Nagorno-Karabakh. They wield wide influence through their Muslim Brotherhood ties and alliance with Qatar, have by far the most powerful military in the region, and are pretty confident/even aggressive in their foreign policy and power projection.

    Kaputa on
  • Options
    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited October 2020
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Also, people saying "well, those countries weren't at war with each other!" are completely missing the point. This is a hard redrawing of the geopolitical map, with Israel and small client states on one side, and Iran and whoever decides to go with them on the other.

    That's it, those are the two options. So anybody that doesn't sign with Israel better have real, tangible backing from Iran, else they are kinda screwed.

    Despite their past history of punching above their weight class, Israel is small potatoes compared to Saudi Arabia. If anyone is leading the anti-Iranian side its them. Israel is just an ally of convenience and a friend of a friend.

    Doesn't Saudi Arabia's army bear all the same hallmarks of a corrupt, brittle colonial army that the Iraqi army had right before it got smashed by ISIS? Namely very expensive hardware, looks good on paper, officers are completely useless jackasses, grunts have zero morale due to said officers?

    Saudi Arabia has two relatively effective elements to it's military

    1) foreign mercenaries, usually American, British, Australian etc. KSA uses a lot of ineffective foreign mercenaries too, but they have a corps of well trained mercenaries which are used as well.

    2) MBS' iphone, which he can use to call the US State Department and ask for help

    The actual KSA military is really geared towards internal suppression, grift, corruption etc etc etc

    Solar on
  • Options
    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    and by "the US State Department", you mean Jared.

  • Options
    GiantGeek2020GiantGeek2020 Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Ringo wrote: »
    I thought the successful drone attack on the Saudi oil field (last year?) pretty much proved that Saudi Arabia is incredibly vulnerable. Picking the wrong fight could absolutely destroy their oil infrastructure and cripple them no matter if they roll over their opponent in the end.

    I feel the current "saying the quiet part loud" is mostly about conservative shit head governments trying to normalize their craptacular style of governance, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone didn't look at the decline of American soft power worldwide and realize that the 800lbs gorilla demanding stability in the oil markets has left the room and that alliances need to be soldified before someone starts flexing on everyone else

    Overall, what every analysis that I've read says is that the US is going to be focused entirely on the Pacific to contain China. While bad news for Europe, we are seeing more engagement with countries like Japan, Australia and India.

    I mean we had a plan to try and contain China's influence.

    And then it got scrapped because "RAWR, OBAMA BAD"

    I'm not even sure how we get back to that point.

    I do hope we manage to join the TPP at some point. I know all the bullshit we had worked in there to benefit US businesses is gone. But honestly I couldn't give a shit about that. If they can't compete on even footing my only feeling is "Get Good Newb."

    Since we are, even with Coronavirus and Trump related damage an 800lb gorilla it would be nice to add that weight to the TPP.

  • Options
    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Ringo wrote: »
    I thought the successful drone attack on the Saudi oil field (last year?) pretty much proved that Saudi Arabia is incredibly vulnerable. Picking the wrong fight could absolutely destroy their oil infrastructure and cripple them no matter if they roll over their opponent in the end.

    I feel the current "saying the quiet part loud" is mostly about conservative shit head governments trying to normalize their craptacular style of governance, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone didn't look at the decline of American soft power worldwide and realize that the 800lbs gorilla demanding stability in the oil markets has left the room and that alliances need to be soldified before someone starts flexing on everyone else

    Overall, what every analysis that I've read says is that the US is going to be focused entirely on the Pacific to contain China. While bad news for Europe, we are seeing more engagement with countries like Japan, Australia and India.

    I mean we had a plan to try and contain China's influence.

    And then it got scrapped because "RAWR, OBAMA BAD"

    I'm not even sure how we get back to that point.

    Starts by joining the CPTPP, probably.

  • Options
    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    So did we talk about how Trump threatened Ethiopia on Egypt's behalf in a weird way?

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ethiopia-denounces-trump-remark-egypt-could-blow-nile-dam-n1244631
    "They will end up blowing up the dam," Trump said, referring to Egypt. "And I said it and I say it loud and clear, they'll blow up that dam. And they have to do something."

    Ethiopia is, understandably, criticizing Trump's comments as an "incitement to war."

  • Options
    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    There are some pretty legitimate disputes over water rights between Egypt and Ethiopia... Which the US doesn’t really have a party to or interest in really, but to which you could have a legitimate ethical discussion over, for example, how much duty people upstream have to sacrifice their own well-being for the well-being of those downstream depending on the water.

    But in this instance, apropos of nothing, this seems like a case of “somewhere in the world some black people are trying to rise out of poverty, throw up the Trump-signal”.

  • Options
    TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    There's some articles saying that Egypt bribed their way to Trump's good graces and Trump cares about having more countries sign up to his Middle East Peace project, so there's that.

  • Options
    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Trump starting a war because he fucked up his attempts to make peace with corruption would be very on brand

  • Options
    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    There are some pretty legitimate disputes over water rights between Egypt and Ethiopia... Which the US doesn’t really have a party to or interest in really, but to which you could have a legitimate ethical discussion over, for example, how much duty people upstream have to sacrifice their own well-being for the well-being of those downstream depending on the water.

    But in this instance, apropos of nothing, this seems like a case of “somewhere in the world some black people are trying to rise out of poverty, throw up the Trump-signal”.

    I suspect it's more that Egypt has a closer connection to Trump then Ethiopia does. So they contacted him or his inner circle of dipshits and said people are credulous manipulatable morons so they just went with the Egyptian take on the situation without a single bit of hesitation. And then Trump just says it outloud cause that's what he does.

  • Options
    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Kaputa wrote: »
    Taking Sudan off of the terror list is unambiguously good; even if their inclusion was originally justified, the government that was placed on that list was overthrown last year, so there was no reason to keep them on it.

    A lot of people in Sudan, including political leaders, are understandably angry at the government for normalizing relations with Israel, with some saying the agreement is illegitimate as it was signed by an unelected transitional government.

    I must admit that getting Sudan, UAE, and Bahrain to normalize relations in the space of a couple months is a pretty significant diplomatic win for the Trump administration. Which isn't meant to imply that it's a good thing - I see it as a betrayal of Palestine and a legitimization of settler colonialism - but for Israel and its supporters here I think it's a major win, even if those Gulf monarchies had been tacitly cooperating with Israel for some time already.

    It definitely should be off the list, but we shouldn't have to pay, and also fuck that list in the first place. While the terrorism designation and accompanying sanctions have been in place for nearly 30 years, the US has had a pretty good working relationship with Sudan's intelligence apparatus for most of the past 20 years on terrorism issues and the wars they're involved in (from Iraq to Libya) - the same government they targeted for its support for terrorism. This is of course very important, because nothing is more important the War of Terror. What apparently never is important is to consider why the sanctions were in place. They had long stopped affecting the anyone in government (their CIA's compliant partner), if every did, but continued to practical effect of ruining regular people's livelihood. And after people literally sacrifice their lives to kick the government out, one of world's poorest countries has the pleasure of paying $350 million to the US.

    At least the Romans had the good decency to show up to your doorsteps with their own troops to crucify a few people, or whatever. Americans just put a tidy directive to one of their ministries (which are definitely not run by s-class sociopaths), everyone in your country is going to experience untold miseries for decades, and then in the end you pay them. You just gotta take your hat off to that level of bloodless indifference to human lives.

    smCQ5WE.jpg
  • Options
    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    Kaputa wrote: »
    Taking Sudan off of the terror list is unambiguously good; even if their inclusion was originally justified, the government that was placed on that list was overthrown last year, so there was no reason to keep them on it.

    A lot of people in Sudan, including political leaders, are understandably angry at the government for normalizing relations with Israel, with some saying the agreement is illegitimate as it was signed by an unelected transitional government.

    I must admit that getting Sudan, UAE, and Bahrain to normalize relations in the space of a couple months is a pretty significant diplomatic win for the Trump administration. Which isn't meant to imply that it's a good thing - I see it as a betrayal of Palestine and a legitimization of settler colonialism - but for Israel and its supporters here I think it's a major win, even if those Gulf monarchies had been tacitly cooperating with Israel for some time already.

    It definitely should be off the list, but we shouldn't have to pay, and also fuck that list in the first place. While the terrorism designation and accompanying sanctions have been in place for nearly 30 years, the US has had a pretty good working relationship with Sudan's intelligence apparatus for most of the past 20 years on terrorism issues and the wars they're involved in (from Iraq to Libya) - the same government they targeted for its support for terrorism. This is of course very important, because nothing is more important the War of Terror. What apparently never is important is to consider why the sanctions were in place. They had long stopped affecting the anyone in government (their CIA's compliant partner), if every did, but continued to practical effect of ruining regular people's livelihood. And after people literally sacrifice their lives to kick the government out, one of world's poorest countries has the pleasure of paying $350 million to the US.

    At least the Romans had the good decency to show up to your doorsteps with their own troops to crucify a few people, or whatever. Americans just put a tidy directive to one of their ministries (which are definitely not run by s-class sociopaths), everyone in your country is going to experience untold miseries for decades, and then in the end you pay them. You just gotta take your hat off to that level of bloodless indifference to human lives.

    Vae victis.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • Options
    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited October 2020
    We came, we saw, we got paid and fucked off.

    Commander Zoom on
  • Options
    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    We came, we saw, we got paid and fucked off.

    Veni, vidi, vigory.

    d67y3ne2tf27.png

  • Options
    MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    knitdan wrote: »
    That’s why we convict him of a felony so he can’t run again

    Won't matter. A felony only stops a person from voting*, but it expressly doesn't stop them from running for President. It's been done before, though not by anyone with his popularity among the base.

    * In some states, for the duration of imprisonment, for others, well past that, often with conditions for reinstatement.

    Yep. Has to be impeachment to ban someone from office.

    Hard to run for office from a small concrete box in Holland.

    Getting a dozen senators to sign the Statute of Rome is probably hoping for too much, admittedly.

    uH3IcEi.png
  • Options
    ArdolArdol Registered User regular
    So in hardly surprising news:
    Natasha Bertrand works at politico
    Scoop--DNI Ratcliffe strayed from his prepared remarks last week to say publicly that Iran's spoof emails intimidating Dems were aimed at "damaging President Trump," blindsiding FBI Director Wray and CISA Director Chris Krebs who were standing behind him.

    Ratcliffe had decided on his own earlier on in the day to hold the press conference. FBI and CISA joined in so the warning would be seen as independent and apolitical. But he also omitted any references to the Proud Boys, even though the group was named in his prepared remarks.

    You would think that intelligence officials would know better by now but... It turns out that political hacks being appointed to sensitive roles doesn't sudden cause them to cease being absolute garbage!

  • Options
    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Ardol wrote: »
    So in hardly surprising news:
    Natasha Bertrand works at politico
    Scoop--DNI Ratcliffe strayed from his prepared remarks last week to say publicly that Iran's spoof emails intimidating Dems were aimed at "damaging President Trump," blindsiding FBI Director Wray and CISA Director Chris Krebs who were standing behind him.

    Ratcliffe had decided on his own earlier on in the day to hold the press conference. FBI and CISA joined in so the warning would be seen as independent and apolitical. But he also omitted any references to the Proud Boys, even though the group was named in his prepared remarks.

    You would think that intelligence officials would know better by now but... It turns out that political hacks being appointed to sensitive roles doesn't sudden cause them to cease being absolute garbage!

    Well, intelligence agency is a bit of a misnomer under the current administration. They have no intelligence and no agency.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • Options
    TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular


    Stone Fish is a WaPo columnist.

    So... Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, while he was Commerce Secretary, while he was setting policy related to China, was also on the board of Huaneng Capital Services, an arm of China Huaneng Group, an energy company owned and operated by the Chinese Government.

    That seems inappropriate somehow.

  • Options
    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    It seems inappropriate because it is

    wbBv3fj.png
  • Options
    BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    edited October 2020
    Yet another reason to physically accost him with a Campbell's soup can.

    BlackDragon480 on
    No matter where you go...there you are.
    ~ Buckaroo Banzai
  • Options
    Martini_PhilosopherMartini_Philosopher Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    It seems inappropriate because it is

    These people never met an appearance of impropriety that they didn't go in all.

    All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
  • Options
    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited October 2020
    At this point I definitely think they've won the award for most corrupt US administration in history.

    shryke on
  • Options
    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    At this point I definitely think they've won the award for most corrupt US administration in history.

    At this point?

    I figured that benchmark was passed at least three years ago.

This discussion has been closed.