so there's a running wh storyline and books or something? I didn't know this.
Oh god yes. Its pretty expansive, though, if you ask me, the 40K story is much, MUCH cooler than the fantasy one. Fantasy has its share of col characters though.
There are some pretty damn good WH40k books. Much better than standard trash-fantasy these licenses usually churn out. Anything by Dan Abnett is great (Eisenhorn, Gaunt's Ghosts, etc.)
Cherrn on
All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
There are some pretty damn good WH40k books. Much better than standard trash-fantasy these licenses usually churn out. Anything by Dan Abnett is great (Eisenhorn, Gaunt's Ghosts, etc.)
any mini eries within the general wh books? I'm planning to buy a few books tomorrow (this thread + star wars thread = me spending money)
so there's a running wh storyline and books or something? I didn't know this.
Oh god yes. Its pretty expansive, though, if you ask me, the 40K story is much, MUCH cooler than the fantasy one. Fantasy has its share of col characters though.
Except if you're any sort of history buff. Puns based off the Reformation and characters born from the wildest fantasies of the Borgia siblings far outstrip any sci-fi, in my mind.
40k is more epic, Warhammer is more nuanced.
For those that haven't seen them, my guides to Warhammer Lore and Books.
This was mentioned in passing, so I can't vouch for the actual validity of it, but we were talking about StarCraft 2 at work recently and something interesting was said. One of the producers mentioned at E3 a few years back where they lead designer designer of StarCraft, and he told them something a long the lines of "Yeah, we pretty much copied a lot from Warhammer."
I think it's pretty obvious that any company full of nerds is going to be inspired by something popular made by another bunch of nerds. And what do nerds play more then Warhammer, especially at a strategy game company?
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
I think it's pretty obvious that any company full of nerds is going to be inspired by something popular made by another bunch of nerds. And what do nerds play more then Warhammer, especially at a strategy game company?
yeah. I'd definitely say that at worst this falls under "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" and quite far from "call your lawyers".
but as someone said a few pages back, we've pretty much been saying the same things since page 1
It's theorized that some sort of psionic link is what's keeping them loyal to the Ethereals. Or maybe they're just credulous.
It'd be tough without much of a warp-signature. I'd say that's a theory that can be grouped in with "Sigmar is a Primarch" or "Human technology was made by the C'tan". As in internets BS not even hinted at by GW.
If they could (and would) insert Pariahs into the human genome, influencing human technology isn't that great a stretch.
And can someone please tell me who made the goddamn Dawn Blade?
It's theorized that some sort of psionic link is what's keeping them loyal to the Ethereals. Or maybe they're just credulous.
It'd be tough without much of a warp-signature. I'd say that's a theory that can be grouped in with "Sigmar is a Primarch" or "Human technology was made by the C'tan". As in internets BS not even hinted at by GW.
If they could (and would) insert Pariahs into the human genome, influencing human technology isn't that great a stretch.
And can someone please tell me who made the goddamn Dawn Blade?
They didn't insert the Pariah gene. Psychic nulls are naturally occurring. The Necrons just take advantage of any nulls they harvest to create a particularly sucky troop type.
It's theorized that some sort of psionic link is what's keeping them loyal to the Ethereals. Or maybe they're just credulous.
It'd be tough without much of a warp-signature. I'd say that's a theory that can be grouped in with "Sigmar is a Primarch" or "Human technology was made by the C'tan". As in internets BS not even hinted at by GW.
If they could (and would) insert Pariahs into the human genome, influencing human technology isn't that great a stretch.
And can someone please tell me who made the goddamn Dawn Blade?
They didn't insert the Pariah gene. Psychic nulls are naturally occurring. The Necrons just take advantage of any nulls they harvest to create a particularly sucky troop type.
Based on the tantalizing hints in the background material above, we can only guess that the humans the Necrons used as the basis for their Pariahs were Culexus Assassins. These unique humans carried the "Pariah gene," and have the Soulless and Psychic Abomination special rules just like their Necron descendants. Could it be that the Necrons planted the Pariah gene in humanity eons ago with this use in mind?
The "elite of the elite" of the Necron army, Pariahs are a fearsome sight on the battlefield. They are created by modifying humans who carry the "Pariah Gene", a gene that may be implanted into humanity's genetic makeup by the C'Tan which gives the carrier no presence in the Warp.
Fucking Necron speculation. There's a reason I can barely stand 40k these days. They should go back to being "quiescent perils beyond the gates of Varl" and a few wargear items.
I love the Necron story, theres is less lame than most. Chaos gets tiring after a while, tyranids have a dumb story, Eldars story is closely tied with Necrons, some tings about space marines are cool.
I think the Necron background is cool. I dunno, soul harvesting Dyson Spheres and gods made out of anthropomorphic magnetism simply appeal to me. Pariahs are pretty sweet too, its a shame they suck so much ass on the tabletop. Also, Necron Titans are insanely badass. Their "Imperator Titan/Mega-Gargant" equivalent in Epic: Armageddon is a miniature fucking sun.
Also, Xenology all but flat out states that some Eldar dudes took the pheremonal organs out of some insect-collective species in the western half of the galaxy and planted them in some abducted Tau, who became the ethereals.
I think the Necron background is cool. I dunno, soul harvesting Dyson Spheres and gods made out of anthropomorphic magnetism simply appeal to me. Pariahs are pretty sweet too, its a shame they suck so much ass on the tabletop. Also, Necron Titans are insanely badass. Their "Imperator Titan/Mega-Gargant" equivalent in Epic: Armageddon is a miniature fucking sun.
Also, Xenology all but flat out states that some Eldar dudes took the pheremonal organs out of some insect-collective species in the western half of the galaxy and planted them in some abducted Tau, who became the ethereals.
So in this case, "Eldrad did it."
I agree. The *actual* Necron background is pretty awesome. The rampant speculation spewed about on the internets is annoying.
I didn't know that about the Tau, though. The army book does talk about the Eldar having a protective or paternal attitude toward them, so it's no surprise.
This is like some strange bizarro-post where everything is the opposite of how it actually is.
I've got a thing for hyper-zealous elite fighting soldiers in powered armor that span the galaxy, travelling through the warp at great peril to themselves, while following the bright psychic beacon of their unliving immortal god-emperor.
I think the Necron background is cool. I dunno, soul harvesting Dyson Spheres and gods made out of anthropomorphic magnetism simply appeal to me. Pariahs are pretty sweet too, its a shame they suck so much ass on the tabletop. Also, Necron Titans are insanely badass. Their "Imperator Titan/Mega-Gargant" equivalent in Epic: Armageddon is a miniature fucking sun.
Also, Xenology all but flat out states that some Eldar dudes took the pheremonal organs out of some insect-collective species in the western half of the galaxy and planted them in some abducted Tau, who became the ethereals.
So in this case, "Eldrad did it."
I agree. The *actual* Necron background is pretty awesome. The rampant speculation spewed about on the internets is annoying.
I didn't know that about the Tau, though. The army book does talk about the Eldar having a protective or paternal attitude toward them, so it's no surprise.
I must say I'm no expert on Tau fluff, but what's stopping Eldar and Tau having a pretty friendly relationship? Neither one seems to oppose the other in the same way that the Imperium oppose all and everyone else just wants to eat eachother.
I mean yeah, Eldar arrogance and all, but they seem like the two most likely to form an alliance in the 40kverse.
I think the Necron background is cool. I dunno, soul harvesting Dyson Spheres and gods made out of anthropomorphic magnetism simply appeal to me. Pariahs are pretty sweet too, its a shame they suck so much ass on the tabletop. Also, Necron Titans are insanely badass. Their "Imperator Titan/Mega-Gargant" equivalent in Epic: Armageddon is a miniature fucking sun.
Also, Xenology all but flat out states that some Eldar dudes took the pheremonal organs out of some insect-collective species in the western half of the galaxy and planted them in some abducted Tau, who became the ethereals.
So in this case, "Eldrad did it."
I agree. The *actual* Necron background is pretty awesome. The rampant speculation spewed about on the internets is annoying.
I didn't know that about the Tau, though. The army book does talk about the Eldar having a protective or paternal attitude toward them, so it's no surprise.
I must say I'm no expert on Tau fluff, but what's stopping Eldar and Tau having a pretty friendly relationship? Neither one seems to oppose the other in the same way that the Imperium oppose all and everyone else just wants to eat eachother.
I mean yeah, Eldar arrogance and all, but they seem like the two most likely to form an alliance in the 40kverse.
Isn't being the two most likely to form an alliance in the 40kverse like being the two most likely guys without arms to grow those arms back in the normal universe?
Isn't being the two most likely to form an alliance in the 40kverse like being the two most likely guys without arms to grow those arms back in the normal universe?
Yeah. But it's still true. Technically.
And it would be more of an "Eldar manipulating Tau to die for them" rather than "good buddies chillin' over beers" thing.
There's only a few actual (read: mutually beneficial) alliances in Warhammer and/or 40k. The Empire and the Dwarfs, ...
The Eldar have a compelling storyline, since it was their own decadence that gave rise to the Chaos Gods, humanity's fanaticism and, more directly, the actual Chaos Marines. But I wonder where the Enslavers went after the Necrons went into stasis. It's as if War in Heaven, Enslaver Plague - fast-forward - Eldar rule the galaxy.
I thought they were only responsible for Slaanesh?
The *actual* Necron background is pretty awesome. The rampant speculation spewed about on the internets is annoying.
The possibility that the Pariah gene was inserted by the C'tan isn't just fanboy speculation though; it's actually implied on the GW website and will likely become a part of canon lore.
The *actual* Necron background is pretty awesome. The rampant speculation spewed about on the internets is annoying.
The possibility that the Pariah gene was inserted by the C'tan isn't just fanboy speculation though; it's actually implied on the GW website and will likely become a part of canon lore.
There's a reason 40k is vastly reduced in my eyes, in recent years. It's not necessarily bad, but it's not the setting I used to dig a decade ago.
As for the Chaos gods, "born" is a bit of a misnomer, as they existed long before becoming sentient. The initial foetal states of the big four were what initiated the "creation" of the Emperor, even though the first, Khrone, wasn't born to sentience (or, quasi-sentience best describes the Chaos gods) until the Dark Ages. Humans were responsible for the first three reaching the threshhold; after Khorne, Nurgle awoke during an age of plauges and despair on Earth, while Tzeentch was born of the ambition and enthusiasm of later ages. Slaanesh is about thirty-thousand years "younger" than his siblings, only coming to full sentience with the death of the Eldar empire.
re: Realm of Chaos (I forget which one, though... Lost and the Damned, maybe...)
Isn't being the two most likely to form an alliance in the 40kverse like being the two most likely guys without arms to grow those arms back in the normal universe?
Yeah. But it's still true. Technically.
And it would be more of an "Eldar manipulating Tau to die for them" rather than "good buddies chillin' over beers" thing.
There's only a few actual (read: mutually beneficial) alliances in Warhammer and/or 40k. The Empire and the Dwarfs, ...
Er... one actual alliance.
Do they ever help each other though, like even a little bit, when it's mutually beneficial for both? [EDIT: Example: Tyranids about to kill everything.]
Or is everyone in the Warhammer universe like ridiculously racist and it just never occurs to them that the different races can intermingle at all?
Agem on
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Isn't being the two most likely to form an alliance in the 40kverse like being the two most likely guys without arms to grow those arms back in the normal universe?
Yeah. But it's still true. Technically.
And it would be more of an "Eldar manipulating Tau to die for them" rather than "good buddies chillin' over beers" thing.
There's only a few actual (read: mutually beneficial) alliances in Warhammer and/or 40k. The Empire and the Dwarfs, ...
Er... one actual alliance.
Do they ever help each other though, like even a little bit, when it's mutually beneficial for both? [EDIT: Example: Tyranids about to kill everything.]
Or is everyone in the Warhammer universe like ridiculously racist and it just never occurs to them that the different races can intermingle at all?
The humans are a bunch of Nazis who hate all aliens, the Necron are a bunch of space zombies, the Orks just want to go around fighting, and the Tyranids kill everything. That leaves the Eldar and the Tau.
Basically,
Wait, really? The humans hate everyone else? Even the relatively peaceful ones?
Considering they're facing possible defeat from all those different things (Necrons, Tyranids in particular) that sounds counterproductive at best. But oh well, I guess having every race completely distinct and separate is part of the point.
Wait, really? The humans hate everyone else? Even the relatively peaceful ones?
The peaceful ones are probably dead for being heretics.
Warhammer is depressing.
You hit on one of the major flaws of 40k; there's no contrast. One of the major reasons why I think Warhammer is a "better" (beware the subjectivity!) setting, is because (like 40k) it's the story of a reality literally coming apart at the seams. Human (etc...) flaws manifest themselves as physical conflicts, and external forces don't pause to let them sort things out. There are things fundamentally worth saving in Warhammer, though; beer, tavern wenches, sausage, playwrights (barely), pristine forests, majestic mountains, sunsets, and more beer. It makes the internal/external eternal conflicts worth fighting
40k, by comparison, has the same "hatred is a virtue because it's the only means of survival" thing, as well as the internal/external conflicts, but mankind has already lost. The Emperor, hope for the future given form, sacrificed himself, but wasn't allowed to die. Instead, incarcerated on a throne that keeps his soul bound to decaying flesh, his massive intellect and guiding light of humanity is fractured and draconian. The Imperium is insane Law to combat humanity's flawed Chaos; not even learning from the flaws of earlier civilizations (like the Eldar or Necrontyr). To bring a little bit of on-topicness to the thread; this is also one of the areas Starcraft probably surpasses 40k. It's not lost, there is hope. Even if the hope comes in the form of cigar-chomping criminals.
It's fun in concept, but tiring in its lack of contrast. The Tau, though, offer a bit, but they're rather small and lateish in the grand scheme of the setting.
Both work equally well as excuses to push toy soldiers around, though. And for most video games, though 40k is rough when viewed from a "personal" (read: RPG) angle.
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Pheromones make a lot more sense than psychic ability.
One time I argued with a guy who said he wrote the Bible.
I think I won.
Oh god yes. Its pretty expansive, though, if you ask me, the 40K story is much, MUCH cooler than the fantasy one. Fantasy has its share of col characters though.
any mini eries within the general wh books? I'm planning to buy a few books tomorrow (this thread + star wars thread = me spending money)
Spoiler: Horus turns to Chaos.
SoogaGames Blog
Everyone knows that sci fi/fantasy, like any genre, is creatively bankrupt from the get-go. Everything is derivate of everyone, etc. etc.
What really counts is the execution-- what type of spin a storyteller can put on old elements.
In my estimate, 40K and SC both spin a mighty fine yarn.
Except if you're any sort of history buff. Puns based off the Reformation and characters born from the wildest fantasies of the Borgia siblings far outstrip any sci-fi, in my mind.
40k is more epic, Warhammer is more nuanced.
For those that haven't seen them, my guides to Warhammer Lore and Books.
I think it's pretty obvious that any company full of nerds is going to be inspired by something popular made by another bunch of nerds. And what do nerds play more then Warhammer, especially at a strategy game company?
yeah. I'd definitely say that at worst this falls under "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" and quite far from "call your lawyers".
but as someone said a few pages back, we've pretty much been saying the same things since page 1
If they could (and would) insert Pariahs into the human genome, influencing human technology isn't that great a stretch.
And can someone please tell me who made the goddamn Dawn Blade?
My pet theory is that the Dawn Blade was one of the swords that Vaul had made for Khaine to honor their bargain.
They didn't insert the Pariah gene. Psychic nulls are naturally occurring. The Necrons just take advantage of any nulls they harvest to create a particularly sucky troop type.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necrons#Pariahs)
(http://www.astronomican.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25&Itemid=37)
Speculative, but not ruled out.
Goddamn.
40k needs more Goff Rokkers.
Space marines are better.
This is like some strange bizarro-post where everything is the opposite of how it actually is.
Also, Xenology all but flat out states that some Eldar dudes took the pheremonal organs out of some insect-collective species in the western half of the galaxy and planted them in some abducted Tau, who became the ethereals.
So in this case, "Eldrad did it."
I agree. The *actual* Necron background is pretty awesome. The rampant speculation spewed about on the internets is annoying.
I didn't know that about the Tau, though. The army book does talk about the Eldar having a protective or paternal attitude toward them, so it's no surprise.
I've got a thing for hyper-zealous elite fighting soldiers in powered armor that span the galaxy, travelling through the warp at great peril to themselves, while following the bright psychic beacon of their unliving immortal god-emperor.
I mean yeah, Eldar arrogance and all, but they seem like the two most likely to form an alliance in the 40kverse.
SoogaGames Blog
Isn't being the two most likely to form an alliance in the 40kverse like being the two most likely guys without arms to grow those arms back in the normal universe?
Yeah. But it's still true. Technically.
And it would be more of an "Eldar manipulating Tau to die for them" rather than "good buddies chillin' over beers" thing.
There's only a few actual (read: mutually beneficial) alliances in Warhammer and/or 40k. The Empire and the Dwarfs, ...
Er... one actual alliance.
I thought they were only responsible for Slaanesh?
The possibility that the Pariah gene was inserted by the C'tan isn't just fanboy speculation though; it's actually implied on the GW website and will likely become a part of canon lore.
There's a reason 40k is vastly reduced in my eyes, in recent years. It's not necessarily bad, but it's not the setting I used to dig a decade ago.
As for the Chaos gods, "born" is a bit of a misnomer, as they existed long before becoming sentient. The initial foetal states of the big four were what initiated the "creation" of the Emperor, even though the first, Khrone, wasn't born to sentience (or, quasi-sentience best describes the Chaos gods) until the Dark Ages. Humans were responsible for the first three reaching the threshhold; after Khorne, Nurgle awoke during an age of plauges and despair on Earth, while Tzeentch was born of the ambition and enthusiasm of later ages. Slaanesh is about thirty-thousand years "younger" than his siblings, only coming to full sentience with the death of the Eldar empire.
re: Realm of Chaos (I forget which one, though... Lost and the Damned, maybe...)
Or is everyone in the Warhammer universe like ridiculously racist and it just never occurs to them that the different races can intermingle at all?
Chaos working the seams of reality/consciousness (in both worlds) makes everyone a little hateful toward everyone.
edit: Except dwarfs and Imperials, 'cause they hate everyone else that much more.
Basically,
Considering they're facing possible defeat from all those different things (Necrons, Tyranids in particular) that sounds counterproductive at best. But oh well, I guess having every race completely distinct and separate is part of the point.
The peaceful ones are probably dead for being heretics.
Warhammer is depressing.
You hit on one of the major flaws of 40k; there's no contrast. One of the major reasons why I think Warhammer is a "better" (beware the subjectivity!) setting, is because (like 40k) it's the story of a reality literally coming apart at the seams. Human (etc...) flaws manifest themselves as physical conflicts, and external forces don't pause to let them sort things out. There are things fundamentally worth saving in Warhammer, though; beer, tavern wenches, sausage, playwrights (barely), pristine forests, majestic mountains, sunsets, and more beer. It makes the internal/external eternal conflicts worth fighting
40k, by comparison, has the same "hatred is a virtue because it's the only means of survival" thing, as well as the internal/external conflicts, but mankind has already lost. The Emperor, hope for the future given form, sacrificed himself, but wasn't allowed to die. Instead, incarcerated on a throne that keeps his soul bound to decaying flesh, his massive intellect and guiding light of humanity is fractured and draconian. The Imperium is insane Law to combat humanity's flawed Chaos; not even learning from the flaws of earlier civilizations (like the Eldar or Necrontyr). To bring a little bit of on-topicness to the thread; this is also one of the areas Starcraft probably surpasses 40k. It's not lost, there is hope. Even if the hope comes in the form of cigar-chomping criminals.
It's fun in concept, but tiring in its lack of contrast. The Tau, though, offer a bit, but they're rather small and lateish in the grand scheme of the setting.
Both work equally well as excuses to push toy soldiers around, though. And for most video games, though 40k is rough when viewed from a "personal" (read: RPG) angle.