Florida theme parks will start to re-open in June. Early June. Legoland June 1, and Universal submitted local plans to open to the public on June 5, at roughly 25% capacity. Still has to go through the governor, but I imagine if he were to change anything about the plans, it would be to open them sooner because he'd love to continue to pretend this doesn't exist.
If Disney tries to re-open, which I imagine they will in a response to universal, I'm definitely going to insist continuing to work from home. Especially since Disney is requiring all of its working cast to perform a health screening on themselves before going into work each day. I'd rather just stay at home.
A theme park at guaranteed 25% capacity honestly sounds kind of rad.
Yeah the people who are managing to get into Shanghai absolutely love it.
Florida theme parks will start to re-open in June. Early June. Legoland June 1, and Universal submitted local plans to open to the public on June 5, at roughly 25% capacity. Still has to go through the governor, but I imagine if he were to change anything about the plans, it would be to open them sooner because he'd love to continue to pretend this doesn't exist.
If Disney tries to re-open, which I imagine they will in a response to universal, I'm definitely going to insist continuing to work from home. Especially since Disney is requiring all of its working cast to perform a health screening on themselves before going into work each day. I'd rather just stay at home.
A theme park at guaranteed 25% capacity honestly sounds kind of rad.
And a lot more expensive since they still need to make money
I also assume they'd close like half the park, especially things like shows that require a lot of employees. So you'll just have everyone crammed into lines for the few top rides anyway.
Florida theme parks will start to re-open in June. Early June. Legoland June 1, and Universal submitted local plans to open to the public on June 5, at roughly 25% capacity. Still has to go through the governor, but I imagine if he were to change anything about the plans, it would be to open them sooner because he'd love to continue to pretend this doesn't exist.
If Disney tries to re-open, which I imagine they will in a response to universal, I'm definitely going to insist continuing to work from home. Especially since Disney is requiring all of its working cast to perform a health screening on themselves before going into work each day. I'd rather just stay at home.
A theme park at guaranteed 25% capacity honestly sounds kind of rad.
Yeah the people who are managing to get into Shanghai absolutely love it.
Edit, sorry, forgot this was the update not discussion thread, off topicish stuff removed.
Hoping Southern California parks do not follow Florida's folly any time soon
I guess with the 25% capacity they'll probably cut ride capacity as well to allow for social distancing. Everything would basically be the same. You'd think line wise, but I wonder if they'd have to raise prices. They probably need a minimum amount of visitors to cover maintenance costs.
This just seems like a bad idea during the pandemic but I guess it's where things are heading.
Palleon,.i used to have season tickets to magic mountain. Going on a Wednesday early in the season is the way to do it. You basically have free reign of the park.
Sweden found to have about the amount of antibodies at the end of April that anyone other than Sweden thought they would have had by the end of April. Pretty much in line with everything else coming out about the death rate (0.5-1% ish in random people as healthy as random French people from various studies around Europe). Seems like 7% of Stockholm had had the virus by the end of april. Clearly more than that now, but, only enough to say they are past the beginning of the crisis, and have the whole midsection to go.
Sweden has also seen 3,871 deaths with 32,172 confirmed cases, or about a 12% case fatality rate which is double what the US is seeing right now.
Sweden's response is absolutely not the path you want to follow
Last I heard, they've also had the same economic setbacks as similar/surrounding countries, which makes it particularly unappealing.
Neighbouring country Denmark is showing quite good numbers, and by the middle of next week will be very far along in opening up the country, which feels wildly premature. Everyone back in school, bars and restaurants open, hair dressers, zoos and similar places, and so on. There are still theoretical guidelines in place, but anecdotally people are completely back to previous habits when not forced to comply. I really hope we've not fucked ourselves - mainly I hope that we don't fuck ourselves when it comes to travel and borders... So while we look to be doing "better" than Sweden, I would very much wait until late summer to make that judgement. Out government is in full populist mode right now, and science seems irrelevant. Which is very Danish, so not unexpected.
Sweden found to have about the amount of antibodies at the end of April that anyone other than Sweden thought they would have had by the end of April. Pretty much in line with everything else coming out about the death rate (0.5-1% ish in random people as healthy as random French people from various studies around Europe). Seems like 7% of Stockholm had had the virus by the end of april. Clearly more than that now, but, only enough to say they are past the beginning of the crisis, and have the whole midsection to go.
Sweden has also seen 3,871 deaths with 32,172 confirmed cases, or about a 12% case fatality rate which is double what the US is seeing right now.
Sweden's response is absolutely not the path you want to follow
Number of cases is an utterly meaningless metric, as is crude case fatality and you know that as well as I do. Sweden is absolutely doing better than the US, because swedes are healthier than Americans, live in lower population densities, have better Healthcare and many other advantages. They are also social distancing better than most Americans despite not being told to. Their infection fatality rate is not 12%. Talking about that number is as irresponsible as talking about the bulk mortality numbers like they do on all the "this is a hoax!" Websites.
The takeaway from the article is that the virus is, yet again, showing us that its much more deadly than flu, albeit not so deadly that an infected individual needs to view it as a death sentence, or so deadly that a society cannot survive its uncontained spread. Sweden has at least 10X more people to die before it can hope for herd immunity.
Sweden found to have about the amount of antibodies at the end of April that anyone other than Sweden thought they would have had by the end of April. Pretty much in line with everything else coming out about the death rate (0.5-1% ish in random people as healthy as random French people from various studies around Europe). Seems like 7% of Stockholm had had the virus by the end of april. Clearly more than that now, but, only enough to say they are past the beginning of the crisis, and have the whole midsection to go.
Sweden has also seen 3,871 deaths with 32,172 confirmed cases, or about a 12% case fatality rate which is double what the US is seeing right now.
Sweden's response is absolutely not the path you want to follow
Number of cases is an utterly meaningless metric, as is crude case fatality and you know that as well as I do. Sweden is absolutely doing better than the US, because swedes are healthier than Americans, live in lower population densities, have better Healthcare and many other advantages. They are also social distancing better than most Americans despite not being told to. Their infection fatality rate is not 12%. Talking about that number is as irresponsible as talking about the bulk mortality numbers like they do on all the "this is a hoax!" Websites.
The takeaway from the article is that the virus is, yet again, showing us that its much more deadly than flu, albeit not so deadly that an infected individual needs to view it as a death sentence, or so deadly that a society cannot survive its uncontained spread. Sweden has at least 10X more people to die before it can hope for herd immunity.
Sweden is worse than the US in pretty much any metric you can ask for. The population respond, but not enough, and the government blew it.
- Restore Illinois plan to be evaluated at end of May. Any Illinois region that meets certain thresholds (listed here: http://www.dph.illinois.gov/restore) will be eligible to enter Phase 3 as of June 1.
- Phase 3 has been expanded. New rules:
- Restaurants may open to proper social distancing, tables at least 6 feet apart, staff must be supplied with masks.
- All gatherings (not just essential) of 10 and fewer people are allowed, encouraged to practice proper social distancing
- State parks will reopen with proper social distancing and masks recommended
- All retail stores that conform to proper IDPH safety precautions can open (precautions include capacity limits)
- Tennis indoor/outdoor facilities can open
- Golf courses can open to a foursome per hole at a time
- One on one personal training and care facilities can reopen
- Other businesses can open following industrial guidelines laid out by the state, given proper capacity limits and social distancing
The governor and state medical expert reiterate that the virus has not gone away and it won't go away on its own, so it's important to follow proper hygiene, hand washing, social distancing, and masks when social distancing is not possible.
For restaurants, my understanding is that it's solely for outside/ patio seating. Indoor dining is still pushed out later to phase 4.
The Reporter and NPR made a pretty good webtool breaking things down by region and phase.
Sweden found to have about the amount of antibodies at the end of April that anyone other than Sweden thought they would have had by the end of April. Pretty much in line with everything else coming out about the death rate (0.5-1% ish in random people as healthy as random French people from various studies around Europe). Seems like 7% of Stockholm had had the virus by the end of april. Clearly more than that now, but, only enough to say they are past the beginning of the crisis, and have the whole midsection to go.
Sweden has also seen 3,871 deaths with 32,172 confirmed cases, or about a 12% case fatality rate which is double what the US is seeing right now.
Sweden's response is absolutely not the path you want to follow
Last I heard, they've also had the same economic setbacks as similar/surrounding countries, which makes it particularly unappealing.
Neighbouring country Denmark is showing quite good numbers, and by the middle of next week will be very far along in opening up the country, which feels wildly premature. Everyone back in school, bars and restaurants open, hair dressers, zoos and similar places, and so on. There are still theoretical guidelines in place, but anecdotally people are completely back to previous habits when not forced to comply. I really hope we've not fucked ourselves - mainly I hope that we don't fuck ourselves when it comes to travel and borders... So while we look to be doing "better" than Sweden, I would very much wait until late summer to make that judgement . Out government is in full populist mode right now, and science seems irrelevant. Which is very Danish, so not unexpected.
This is something everyone is missing right now in the panic while trying to get easy political points.
Right now every politician and local expert is comparing to other countries to justify their own strategy.
Denmark says "We're better off than Sweden in numbers, we were right all along"
Sweden says "We're better off than both the UK and Belgium even though we only did a soft lockdown, we were right all along"
The UK says "We were off to a rough start but at least we closed down. The Swedes are all going to die for not doing like us. We were right all along"
So fucking tired of the dickwaving in the EU as its extremely unproductive. It's been 2 months of a 2 year pandemic (if we even get vaccines). A vast majority of the population will get this shit in the end.
The best thing a country can do is look at their hospital bed numbers and make sure they are not overwhelmed.
And protect the elderly. Something many countries in the EU has failed spectacularly on.
Movitz on
+4
MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
edited May 2020
ProPublica has set up a site listing the metrics needed to allow lockdowns to be loosened and if states are meeting any of them. These criteria are: positive tests per 100k people, percentage of tests that are positive, tests per 100k people per day, ICU bed capacity, and hospital visits for flu-like illnesses. You can scroll down for all the states or use the menu to jump to any particular state. They also list where they get their reference data, how they choose their metrics, and include notes about dubious data coming out of certain tests. It's a good resource and worth looking up.
Pretty sure everyone knew this already, but Trump confirmed today that lockdowns will not be happening if a second wave hits (him even entertaining that there may be a second wave means that he has likely been told multiple times that there will DEFINITELY be one)
And while he doesn't actually have any power to dictate that, since it's decided by the states, it means that any hope of additional federal relief, either by executive order or Congressional action, is basically out the window. Which will, of course, make it very difficult for even the most liberal states to lock back down, even if they know they should.
Pretty sure everyone knew this already, but Trump confirmed today that lockdowns will not be happening if a second wave hits (him even entertaining that there may be a second wave means that he has likely been told multiple times that there will DEFINITELY be one)
And while he doesn't actually have any power to dictate that, since it's decided by the states, it means that any hope of additional federal relief, either by executive order or Congressional action, is basically out the window. Which will, of course, make it very difficult for even the most liberal states to lock back down, even if they know they should.
That man acting as a bullshit multiplier really wore out it's welcome years ago.
Sweden found to have about the amount of antibodies at the end of April that anyone other than Sweden thought they would have had by the end of April. Pretty much in line with everything else coming out about the death rate (0.5-1% ish in random people as healthy as random French people from various studies around Europe). Seems like 7% of Stockholm had had the virus by the end of april. Clearly more than that now, but, only enough to say they are past the beginning of the crisis, and have the whole midsection to go.
Sweden has also seen 3,871 deaths with 32,172 confirmed cases, or about a 12% case fatality rate which is double what the US is seeing right now.
Sweden's response is absolutely not the path you want to follow
Number of cases is an utterly meaningless metric, as is crude case fatality and you know that as well as I do. Sweden is absolutely doing better than the US, because swedes are healthier than Americans, live in lower population densities, have better Healthcare and many other advantages. They are also social distancing better than most Americans despite not being told to. Their infection fatality rate is not 12%. Talking about that number is as irresponsible as talking about the bulk mortality numbers like they do on all the "this is a hoax!" Websites.
The takeaway from the article is that the virus is, yet again, showing us that its much more deadly than flu, albeit not so deadly that an infected individual needs to view it as a death sentence, or so deadly that a society cannot survive its uncontained spread. Sweden has at least 10X more people to die before it can hope for herd immunity.
Sweden is worse than the US in pretty much any metric you can ask for. The population respond, but not enough, and the government blew it.
The government follows the recommendations of the health institute, so if anything that would mean the epidemiologists blew it.
I think it's way too early to compare and talk about what countries "blew it".
And as a Swede even if they blew it I certainly prefer it if the politicians simply do what the expert doctors tell them to do, rather than make up what's to be done based on what voters want.
+9
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
Personally I'd be wanting to take a real close look at what the hell the people at the health institute were thinking. Their policy suggestion was way out of line from what every other (not run by right-wing idiots) country was doing, the resulting death rate is up there with the train wreck countries, and the promised herd immunity numbers have not materialized.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
Personally I'd be wanting to take a real close look at what the hell the people at the health institute were thinking. Their policy suggestion was way out of line from what every other (not run by right-wing idiots) country was doing, the resulting death rate is up there with the train wreck countries, and the promised herd immunity numbers have not materialized.
They have never promised herd immunity and are actively downplaying hopes for herd immunity during daily updates.
You might want to reflect on where your information is coming from and if its detached from the source you're critiquing.
Like I'm not saying Sweden #1 or that there hasn't been mistakes, but the blame game started real early on and we still dont even have the facts. This is going to be much clearer later.
My county is doing well, by their own admission part of it is luck, but as far as I've understood Stockholm is really pulling our numbers down, and the rest of Sweden is doing as well as Denmark. Either Stockholm county fucked up, or it turns out that being the main travel hub and Capitol is rough in a pandemic.
0
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
Personally I'd be wanting to take a real close look at what the hell the people at the health institute were thinking. Their policy suggestion was way out of line from what every other (not run by right-wing idiots) country was doing, the resulting death rate is up there with the train wreck countries, and the promised herd immunity numbers have not materialized.
They have never promised herd immunity and are actively downplaying hopes for herd immunity during daily updates.
You might want to reflect on where your information is coming from and if its detached from the source you're critiquing.
Like I'm not saying Sweden #1 or that there hasn't been mistakes, but the blame game started real early on and we still dont even have the facts. This is going to be much clearer later.
My county is doing well, by their own admission part of it is luck, but as far as I've understood Stockholm is really pulling our numbers down, and the rest of Sweden is doing as well as Denmark. Either Stockholm county fucked up, or it turns out that being the main travel hub and Capitol is rough in a pandemic.
They're downplaying the herd immunity now because the latest numbers have them at about 7% of the population having been exposed. They're doing the "One day, like a miracle, this will disappear." -> "I always calling this a pandemic before it was called a pandemic." shuffle, just with better vocabulary and sentence structure.
I don't think that stripping out the numbers of the largest city is a valid counterargument. And at the moment the facts, at least on the FT's graph page, are that Sweden has 376 deaths per million population. That's good enough for sixth place on the charts. Possibly ninth in the world if Russia, Brazil, and India were reporting good numbers, but who knows.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
Personally I'd be wanting to take a real close look at what the hell the people at the health institute were thinking. Their policy suggestion was way out of line from what every other (not run by right-wing idiots) country was doing, the resulting death rate is up there with the train wreck countries, and the promised herd immunity numbers have not materialized.
The right wing government found experts that backed a right wing solution.
Sweden found to have about the amount of antibodies at the end of April that anyone other than Sweden thought they would have had by the end of April. Pretty much in line with everything else coming out about the death rate (0.5-1% ish in random people as healthy as random French people from various studies around Europe). Seems like 7% of Stockholm had had the virus by the end of april. Clearly more than that now, but, only enough to say they are past the beginning of the crisis, and have the whole midsection to go.
Sweden has also seen 3,871 deaths with 32,172 confirmed cases, or about a 12% case fatality rate which is double what the US is seeing right now.
Sweden's response is absolutely not the path you want to follow
Number of cases is an utterly meaningless metric, as is crude case fatality and you know that as well as I do. Sweden is absolutely doing better than the US, because swedes are healthier than Americans, live in lower population densities, have better Healthcare and many other advantages. They are also social distancing better than most Americans despite not being told to. Their infection fatality rate is not 12%. Talking about that number is as irresponsible as talking about the bulk mortality numbers like they do on all the "this is a hoax!" Websites.
The takeaway from the article is that the virus is, yet again, showing us that its much more deadly than flu, albeit not so deadly that an infected individual needs to view it as a death sentence, or so deadly that a society cannot survive its uncontained spread. Sweden has at least 10X more people to die before it can hope for herd immunity.
Sweden is worse than the US in pretty much any metric you can ask for. The population respond, but not enough, and the government blew it.
The government follows the recommendations of the health institute, so if anything that would mean the epidemiologists blew it.
I think it's way too early to compare and talk about what countries "blew it".
And as a Swede even if they blew it I certainly prefer it if the politicians simply do what the expert doctors tell them to do, rather than make up what's to be done based on what voters want.
If your experts are saying to do something different from everybody else's experts, "just following the experts" is not a good argument. Determining which experts to trust when there is a disagreement is a basic part of governance
The only reason Sweden's strategy is controversial is because politicians all over the world wants it to be. All other countries needs someone to point to in order to justify their own behavior. Sweden didn't do exactly as everyone else and is an easy target. Danish newspaper headlines have been 50% about Sweden for the last 6 weeks, it's insane. Only recently has it stopped now that Denmark is also opening up.
But as I've said before. We're 2 months into a 2 year pandemic. Sure, you can close down for a while and then start up with restrictions and social distancing, or just start directly with it. My guess is that in the long run it won't really matter any way as long as you don't overwhelm the hospitals. Neither on mental health, death toll, economy or whatever metric you want to be using.
Comparisons are just silly at this point in time.
That being said, Sweden really dropped the ball on protecting the elderly. Roughly 60% of the deaths are from elderly care homes. Maybe a lockdown would have given more time to implement better procedures for protection.
Eh if you pray for rain you got to deal with the mud too. Sweden rolled the dice on not shutting down and it obviously killed people that could have been protected. Just like the US not shutting down earlier killed around 30k people according to Columbia we can critique countries for fucking up its called being held accountable.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I think most reasonable people here in MN were surprised that it took this long to cancel, honestly. I think they were just desperately holding out hope that a miracle would intervene.
Eh if you pray for rain you got to deal with the mud too. Sweden rolled the dice on not shutting down and it obviously killed people that could have been protected. Just like the US not shutting down earlier killed around 30k people according to Columbia we can critique countries for fucking up its called being held accountable.
Definitely agree on the holding accountable part.
It's just, you never hear of the long term plan. Everyone is screaming about numbers, now!! Then there's no follow-up or discussion on what to do for the next couple of years.
Every country will probably end up in some semi-open state anyway.
I often think of New Zealand, which is a country I love. It's obviously great that they have stopped the spread. But what's the next step? They heavily rely on tourism for survival. A 14 day quarantine for arrivals is impossible when dealing with tourists.
Movitz on
+1
BlackDragon480Bluster KerfuffleMaster of Windy ImportRegistered Userregular
I think most reasonable people here in MN were surprised that it took this long to cancel, honestly. I think they were just desperately holding out hope that a miracle would intervene.
It's a shame, where else could you find deep fried everything and hot dish all in the same place?
No matter where you go...there you are. ~ Buckaroo Banzai
Eh if you pray for rain you got to deal with the mud too. Sweden rolled the dice on not shutting down and it obviously killed people that could have been protected. Just like the US not shutting down earlier killed around 30k people according to Columbia we can critique countries for fucking up its called being held accountable.
Definitely agree on the holding accountable part.
It's just, you never hear of the long term plan. Everyone is screaming about numbers, now!! Then there's no follow-up or discussion on what to do for the next couple of years.
Every country will probably end up in some semi-open state anyway.
I often think of New Zealand, which is a country I love. It's obviously great that they have stopped the spread. But what's the next step? They heavily rely on tourism for survival. A 14 day quarantine for arrivals is impossible when dealing with tourists.
Sweden was boasting of being a success story, which has been picked up and turned into a right wing meme. It's not surprising people pointed out that they aren't.
Eh if you pray for rain you got to deal with the mud too. Sweden rolled the dice on not shutting down and it obviously killed people that could have been protected. Just like the US not shutting down earlier killed around 30k people according to Columbia we can critique countries for fucking up its called being held accountable.
Definitely agree on the holding accountable part.
It's just, you never hear of the long term plan. Everyone is screaming about numbers, now!! Then there's no follow-up or discussion on what to do for the next couple of years.
Every country will probably end up in some semi-open state anyway.
I often think of New Zealand, which is a country I love. It's obviously great that they have stopped the spread. But what's the next step? They heavily rely on tourism for survival. A 14 day quarantine for arrivals is impossible when dealing with tourists.
TBH I could think of some ways to deal with tourism, but there's no perfect way to do it. It's all going to be about risk mitigation. The 14 day quarantine is obviously not feasible. But, the majority of people fall sick within 5 to 7 days of being infected. So you could say, require testing before departure and after arrival of anyone coming into the country, require something like a 5 day stay quarantine followed by another test, and then allow them to carry on. Also mandatory tracking apps on travelers to allow contact tracing, if they do test positive. Tourism is really gonna be a tricky devil, there's a ton of countries around the world that rely on it and it's going to be next to impossible to safely allow without a vaccine or a massive ramp in testing. And I say that being in a state where tourism is one of the largest parts of our economy, so we're pretty screwed. In fact, just today our governor announced all festivals and large events are canceled for the rest of the year, even though we have the lowest transmission rate in the country... but he's listening to the science, thankfully. But that's gonna hurt some folks, nonetheless.
Actually, I could see quarantine tour groups becoming a thing. Like, a travel agency or such puts together a group of ten people say who arrive on the same day, and plan outings with them that keep them from the general public. Say, bus tours or hiking expeditions and the like. That's half of what tourists do already, so it's not too much of a stretch. Either way, they'll have to innovate because too many people around the world will literally starve if they can't find a way to bring back the tourists.
Eh if you pray for rain you got to deal with the mud too. Sweden rolled the dice on not shutting down and it obviously killed people that could have been protected. Just like the US not shutting down earlier killed around 30k people according to Columbia we can critique countries for fucking up its called being held accountable.
Definitely agree on the holding accountable part.
It's just, you never hear of the long term plan. Everyone is screaming about numbers, now!! Then there's no follow-up or discussion on what to do for the next couple of years.
Every country will probably end up in some semi-open state anyway.
I often think of New Zealand, which is a country I love. It's obviously great that they have stopped the spread. But what's the next step? They heavily rely on tourism for survival. A 14 day quarantine for arrivals is impossible when dealing with tourists.
Sweden was boasting of being a success story, which has been picked up and turned into a right wing meme. It's not surprising people pointed out that they aren't.
I have absolutely no idea who in Sweden was boasting this, I haven't heard from any Swedish source that the people in charge consider this a success.
Sweden is in no way a success story, neither is it a disaster. It's a country doing a what most northern European countries do with some minor variation. The two big things that come to mind was that kindergartens and schools age 6-15 were not closed and restaurants were allowed to serve sitting customers at 50% capacity. Which many other countries now also allow.
Eh if you pray for rain you got to deal with the mud too. Sweden rolled the dice on not shutting down and it obviously killed people that could have been protected. Just like the US not shutting down earlier killed around 30k people according to Columbia we can critique countries for fucking up its called being held accountable.
Definitely agree on the holding accountable part.
It's just, you never hear of the long term plan. Everyone is screaming about numbers, now!! Then there's no follow-up or discussion on what to do for the next couple of years.
Every country will probably end up in some semi-open state anyway.
I often think of New Zealand, which is a country I love. It's obviously great that they have stopped the spread. But what's the next step? They heavily rely on tourism for survival. A 14 day quarantine for arrivals is impossible when dealing with tourists.
Sweden was boasting of being a success story, which has been picked up and turned into a right wing meme. It's not surprising people pointed out that they aren't.
I have absolutely no idea who in Sweden was boasting this, I haven't heard from any Swedish source that the people in charge consider this a success.
Sweden is in no way a success story, neither is it a disaster. It's a country doing a what most northern European countries do with some minor variation. The two big things that come to mind was that schools age 6-15 were not closed and restaurants were allowed to serve sitting customers at 50% capacity. Which many other countries now also allow.
It's a country sitting with 4x the death rate per capita. That was bragging about "Yes, we'll have herd immunity soon".
Eh if you pray for rain you got to deal with the mud too. Sweden rolled the dice on not shutting down and it obviously killed people that could have been protected. Just like the US not shutting down earlier killed around 30k people according to Columbia we can critique countries for fucking up its called being held accountable.
Definitely agree on the holding accountable part.
It's just, you never hear of the long term plan. Everyone is screaming about numbers, now!! Then there's no follow-up or discussion on what to do for the next couple of years.
Every country will probably end up in some semi-open state anyway.
I often think of New Zealand, which is a country I love. It's obviously great that they have stopped the spread. But what's the next step? They heavily rely on tourism for survival. A 14 day quarantine for arrivals is impossible when dealing with tourists.
Sweden was boasting of being a success story, which has been picked up and turned into a right wing meme. It's not surprising people pointed out that they aren't.
I have absolutely no idea who in Sweden was boasting this, I haven't heard from any Swedish source that the people in charge consider this a success.
Sweden is in no way a success story, neither is it a disaster. It's a country doing a what most northern European countries do with some minor variation. The two big things that come to mind was that schools age 6-15 were not closed and restaurants were allowed to serve sitting customers at 50% capacity. Which many other countries now also allow.
It's a country sitting with 4x the death rate per capita. That was bragging about "Yes, we'll have herd immunity soon".
No, the official line which have been stated in all daily press conferences has been that they do not count on herd immunity as a strategy. Officials have also been criticizing themselves that they did not protect the elderly better.
There's a few groups doing modelling at universities who talks about herd immunity, and apparently the US ambassador also mentioned it which I saw in this thread just now.
These are not the people in charge of anything.
Eh if you pray for rain you got to deal with the mud too. Sweden rolled the dice on not shutting down and it obviously killed people that could have been protected. Just like the US not shutting down earlier killed around 30k people according to Columbia we can critique countries for fucking up its called being held accountable.
Definitely agree on the holding accountable part.
It's just, you never hear of the long term plan. Everyone is screaming about numbers, now!! Then there's no follow-up or discussion on what to do for the next couple of years.
Every country will probably end up in some semi-open state anyway.
I often think of New Zealand, which is a country I love. It's obviously great that they have stopped the spread. But what's the next step? They heavily rely on tourism for survival. A 14 day quarantine for arrivals is impossible when dealing with tourists.
Sweden was boasting of being a success story, which has been picked up and turned into a right wing meme. It's not surprising people pointed out that they aren't.
I have absolutely no idea who in Sweden was boasting this, I haven't heard from any Swedish source that the people in charge consider this a success.
Sweden is in no way a success story, neither is it a disaster. It's a country doing a what most northern European countries do with some minor variation. The two big things that come to mind was that schools age 6-15 were not closed and restaurants were allowed to serve sitting customers at 50% capacity. Which many other countries now also allow.
It's a country sitting with 4x the death rate per capita. That was bragging about "Yes, we'll have herd immunity soon".
No, the official line which have been stated in all daily press conferences has been that they do not count on herd immunity as a strategy. Officials have also been criticizing themselves that they did not protect the elderly better.
There's a few groups doing modelling at universities who talks about herd immunity, and apparently the US ambassador also mentioned it which I saw in this thread just now.
These are not the people in charge of anything.
JeanHeartbroken papa bearGatineau, QuébecRegistered Userregular
Québec update : Public librairies, museums and drive in theaters will be allowed to re-open May 29.
This makes me happy. The economic impact of these re-openings will be minimal so they have to feel pretty good about the trendline to allow this. They're not opening libraries for the money!
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I would guess he’s been informed by the Executive that there will be no further action taken to deal with Covid-19.
So, open up now, utterly destroy the economy, but maybe save more lives in the long run?
I honestly have no idea how to parse such an absolute 180 from somebody who has been a consummate professional to this point. Less than a week ago he told Congress that opening now without a tracing/testing plan in place could kill millions.
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Yeah the people who are managing to get into Shanghai absolutely love it.
I also assume they'd close like half the park, especially things like shows that require a lot of employees. So you'll just have everyone crammed into lines for the few top rides anyway.
Edit, sorry, forgot this was the update not discussion thread, off topicish stuff removed.
Hoping Southern California parks do not follow Florida's folly any time soon
This just seems like a bad idea during the pandemic but I guess it's where things are heading.
Palleon,.i used to have season tickets to magic mountain. Going on a Wednesday early in the season is the way to do it. You basically have free reign of the park.
Last I heard, they've also had the same economic setbacks as similar/surrounding countries, which makes it particularly unappealing.
Neighbouring country Denmark is showing quite good numbers, and by the middle of next week will be very far along in opening up the country, which feels wildly premature. Everyone back in school, bars and restaurants open, hair dressers, zoos and similar places, and so on. There are still theoretical guidelines in place, but anecdotally people are completely back to previous habits when not forced to comply. I really hope we've not fucked ourselves - mainly I hope that we don't fuck ourselves when it comes to travel and borders... So while we look to be doing "better" than Sweden, I would very much wait until late summer to make that judgement. Out government is in full populist mode right now, and science seems irrelevant. Which is very Danish, so not unexpected.
Number of cases is an utterly meaningless metric, as is crude case fatality and you know that as well as I do. Sweden is absolutely doing better than the US, because swedes are healthier than Americans, live in lower population densities, have better Healthcare and many other advantages. They are also social distancing better than most Americans despite not being told to. Their infection fatality rate is not 12%. Talking about that number is as irresponsible as talking about the bulk mortality numbers like they do on all the "this is a hoax!" Websites.
The takeaway from the article is that the virus is, yet again, showing us that its much more deadly than flu, albeit not so deadly that an infected individual needs to view it as a death sentence, or so deadly that a society cannot survive its uncontained spread. Sweden has at least 10X more people to die before it can hope for herd immunity.
Sweden is worse than the US in pretty much any metric you can ask for. The population respond, but not enough, and the government blew it.
The Reporter and NPR made a pretty good webtool breaking things down by region and phase.
https://www.chicagoreporter.com/whats-open-in-your-region-of-illinois-coronavirus-plan/
This is something everyone is missing right now in the panic while trying to get easy political points.
Right now every politician and local expert is comparing to other countries to justify their own strategy.
Denmark says "We're better off than Sweden in numbers, we were right all along"
Sweden says "We're better off than both the UK and Belgium even though we only did a soft lockdown, we were right all along"
The UK says "We were off to a rough start but at least we closed down. The Swedes are all going to die for not doing like us. We were right all along"
So fucking tired of the dickwaving in the EU as its extremely unproductive. It's been 2 months of a 2 year pandemic (if we even get vaccines). A vast majority of the population will get this shit in the end.
The best thing a country can do is look at their hospital bed numbers and make sure they are not overwhelmed.
And protect the elderly. Something many countries in the EU has failed spectacularly on.
If you just want to be horrified by news coming from everywhere in the world, The Guardian maintains a live feed that posts all the breaking news they can find. At the end of the day, they link to the new day's listing of endless badness (and rare good news).
And while he doesn't actually have any power to dictate that, since it's decided by the states, it means that any hope of additional federal relief, either by executive order or Congressional action, is basically out the window. Which will, of course, make it very difficult for even the most liberal states to lock back down, even if they know they should.
That man acting as a bullshit multiplier really wore out it's welcome years ago.
The government follows the recommendations of the health institute, so if anything that would mean the epidemiologists blew it.
I think it's way too early to compare and talk about what countries "blew it".
And as a Swede even if they blew it I certainly prefer it if the politicians simply do what the expert doctors tell them to do, rather than make up what's to be done based on what voters want.
They have never promised herd immunity and are actively downplaying hopes for herd immunity during daily updates.
You might want to reflect on where your information is coming from and if its detached from the source you're critiquing.
Like I'm not saying Sweden #1 or that there hasn't been mistakes, but the blame game started real early on and we still dont even have the facts. This is going to be much clearer later.
My county is doing well, by their own admission part of it is luck, but as far as I've understood Stockholm is really pulling our numbers down, and the rest of Sweden is doing as well as Denmark. Either Stockholm county fucked up, or it turns out that being the main travel hub and Capitol is rough in a pandemic.
"About 30% of people in Stockholm have reached a level of immunity," Karin Ulrika Olofsdotter told NPR. "We could reach herd immunity in the capital as early as next month."
Karin Ulrika Olofsdotter is Sweden's ambassador to the USA.
Also:
Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s state epidemiologist who devised the no-lockdown approach, estimated that 40 per cent of people in the capital, Stockholm, would be immune to Covid-19 by the end of May, giving the country an advantage against a virus that “we’re going to have to live with for a very long time”.
They're downplaying the herd immunity now because the latest numbers have them at about 7% of the population having been exposed. They're doing the "One day, like a miracle, this will disappear." -> "I always calling this a pandemic before it was called a pandemic." shuffle, just with better vocabulary and sentence structure.
I don't think that stripping out the numbers of the largest city is a valid counterargument. And at the moment the facts, at least on the FT's graph page, are that Sweden has 376 deaths per million population. That's good enough for sixth place on the charts. Possibly ninth in the world if Russia, Brazil, and India were reporting good numbers, but who knows.
The right wing government found experts that backed a right wing solution.
But as I've said before. We're 2 months into a 2 year pandemic. Sure, you can close down for a while and then start up with restrictions and social distancing, or just start directly with it. My guess is that in the long run it won't really matter any way as long as you don't overwhelm the hospitals. Neither on mental health, death toll, economy or whatever metric you want to be using.
Comparisons are just silly at this point in time.
That being said, Sweden really dropped the ball on protecting the elderly. Roughly 60% of the deaths are from elderly care homes. Maybe a lockdown would have given more time to implement better procedures for protection.
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On Memorial Day weekend
Parents are probably very happy and about to make some very bad decisions this weekend
Yeah, there was no way that was going to happen this year. That many people, right into the center (ish) of the metro?
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Definitely agree on the holding accountable part.
It's just, you never hear of the long term plan. Everyone is screaming about numbers, now!! Then there's no follow-up or discussion on what to do for the next couple of years.
Every country will probably end up in some semi-open state anyway.
I often think of New Zealand, which is a country I love. It's obviously great that they have stopped the spread. But what's the next step? They heavily rely on tourism for survival. A 14 day quarantine for arrivals is impossible when dealing with tourists.
It's a shame, where else could you find deep fried everything and hot dish all in the same place?
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Sweden was boasting of being a success story, which has been picked up and turned into a right wing meme. It's not surprising people pointed out that they aren't.
TBH I could think of some ways to deal with tourism, but there's no perfect way to do it. It's all going to be about risk mitigation. The 14 day quarantine is obviously not feasible. But, the majority of people fall sick within 5 to 7 days of being infected. So you could say, require testing before departure and after arrival of anyone coming into the country, require something like a 5 day stay quarantine followed by another test, and then allow them to carry on. Also mandatory tracking apps on travelers to allow contact tracing, if they do test positive. Tourism is really gonna be a tricky devil, there's a ton of countries around the world that rely on it and it's going to be next to impossible to safely allow without a vaccine or a massive ramp in testing. And I say that being in a state where tourism is one of the largest parts of our economy, so we're pretty screwed. In fact, just today our governor announced all festivals and large events are canceled for the rest of the year, even though we have the lowest transmission rate in the country... but he's listening to the science, thankfully. But that's gonna hurt some folks, nonetheless.
Actually, I could see quarantine tour groups becoming a thing. Like, a travel agency or such puts together a group of ten people say who arrive on the same day, and plan outings with them that keep them from the general public. Say, bus tours or hiking expeditions and the like. That's half of what tourists do already, so it's not too much of a stretch. Either way, they'll have to innovate because too many people around the world will literally starve if they can't find a way to bring back the tourists.
I have absolutely no idea who in Sweden was boasting this, I haven't heard from any Swedish source that the people in charge consider this a success.
Sweden is in no way a success story, neither is it a disaster. It's a country doing a what most northern European countries do with some minor variation. The two big things that come to mind was that kindergartens and schools age 6-15 were not closed and restaurants were allowed to serve sitting customers at 50% capacity. Which many other countries now also allow.
Edit: Added kindergartens
It's a country sitting with 4x the death rate per capita. That was bragging about "Yes, we'll have herd immunity soon".
No, the official line which have been stated in all daily press conferences has been that they do not count on herd immunity as a strategy. Officials have also been criticizing themselves that they did not protect the elderly better.
There's a few groups doing modelling at universities who talks about herd immunity, and apparently the US ambassador also mentioned it which I saw in this thread just now.
These are not the people in charge of anything.
Patrick Ewing has covid per CNN
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/22/us/patrick-ewing-coronavirus-positive-test-spt/index.html
This makes me happy. The economic impact of these re-openings will be minimal so they have to feel pretty good about the trendline to allow this. They're not opening libraries for the money!
Probably older movies.
What.
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Yeah we bought time and YOUR ADMIN DID FUCKING NOTHING WITH IT SO WE STILL NEED IT YOU FUCKING CLOWNS!
pleasepaypreacher.net
Fauci is not in charge and it is true that both opening too soon and opening too late will cause severe harm to Americans.
So, open up now, utterly destroy the economy, but maybe save more lives in the long run?
I honestly have no idea how to parse such an absolute 180 from somebody who has been a consummate professional to this point. Less than a week ago he told Congress that opening now without a tracing/testing plan in place could kill millions.
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