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[Overwatch] Overwatch 2 is Live!

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  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    AFAIK none of the F2P games that make you earn/buy new characters allow you to swap in the middle of a match. In my mind, that's the big difference here and why it's a terrible idea.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited September 2022
    one day they will realise mid match hero swaps were a terrible idea and see the Light of Truth but today is not that day

    but yeah broadly i cant imagine anybody who has played much ow1 will not be able to straight buy the new hero off the top and failing that buying the bp to be competitively viable in edge cases is eh, not the end of the world

    surrealitycheck on
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  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    the very rough unfinished hero video is out there and uh, cute but what is OW2 even doing at this point.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular


    o so not even money, u just get it free ezpz

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  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    And what happens when someone new starts playing the game? In a game that can often be about counter picking heroes, this new player may not be able to do so.

    If new heroes became available for free at the end of a battle pass or something like that, I'd feel better about this situation.

    TexiKenPhoenix-D
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited September 2022
    I assume they will be unlocked for free at the end of the battlepass. But at the same time, this isn't the way that almost any other game in its vein locks heroes. You just buy them, either through money or some flavor of earned in-game currency. Having to grind out for... what? 10 hours? 20 hours? One week? Two weeks? For a casual player, are they effectively going to have to wait until the season's battlepass is done, so a couple months? That's a major problem. I don't have a huge issue with temporarily locking new heroes behind some kind of relatively easily earned in-game currency. That's the de facto standard for basically everything else out there. I'm not totally sure Paladins economy in that sense because I bought the "get everything forever" $5 thing like four years ago, but DBD's, even if I stopped playing entirely, I could buy the next 3-4 non-licensed DLCs. Given everything they've said in the past about new heroes always being free for everybody, and the way they've been burying this and obfuscating everything too, it's especially shitty.

    Plus, battlepasses themselves almost always tend towards making the game shitty for everybody by forcing people to play in ways that they don't actually want to. Yeah, they CAN encourage people to play things they wouldn't normally, but then you just get a sudden flood of assholes throwing on random hero specifically to knock off whatever the challenge/achievement is.

    And it's been a particular thorn in my side how Blizzard treats support/tank players as second class citizens compared to the DPS. You get a new thing! You get a new thing! Not you. You want something? Grind for it, peasant. The last support was March 2019, for fuck's sake. Supports are almost totally untouched for OW2, and by all impressions, in a worse situation than ever. Throw people a fucking bone, not salt in the wound.

    ArcTangent on
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  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    With presumably all the heroes up until the new one being free, I really don't think anybody is going to lose a game for being unable to run a counter.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    I've never seen a battlepass that actually improves the game. It's always just thinly veiled FOMO tactics and manipulating players to play at regular intervals and become MAU statistics, which makes shareholders happy.

    And as ArcTangent stated, most battlepasses also lead to degenerate gameplay. The easiest and most efficient way to complete the challenges on battlepass cards is very rarely the best way to help and support your team. Some are worse than others. I think it was Halo Infinite's first few weeks of battlepass that completely broke the game because of how degenerate some of the challenges made players become.

    Phoenix-DReynolds
  • DrowsDrows Registered User regular
    Since levels are getting removed, I'm guessing that having unlocked all the heroes will be a new prereq for competitive, instead of reaching level N. That would be a way to prevent some of the competitive P2W concerns about players/teammates not having all the heroes available to swap.

  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    edited September 2022
    Man... have to say the more I hear the less hype I get.

    Also, this looks like we're probably only gonna get 3 heroes on launch.

    I mean it was already all but confirmed but so far OW2 is feeling kind slapped together after PvE died on them.

    And if Symmetra still launches in her borderline useless state I will really have to laugh.

    Dragkonias on
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited September 2022
    i mean its a minimum viable pvp product being pushed because they picked up a new hire (i cant remember exactly who, but after management got shuffled around it might be somebody who worked on apex?) and he pointed out that new pvp content was essential if they were going to delay the pve content to make it good enough and making the pvp f2p (which is basically where ow1 is at) and charging for pve content was a much better monetisation model

    i have no idea why people are acting as if a battlepass is a problem - valorant and apex both exist and are fine, obviously they could fuck it up with hard work and dedication but

    a) most players play like 3 heroes 99% of the time
    b) "hard counters" are a meme; there are a miniscule number of counter picks (pharah into short range, full hitscan into short range on certain points, pocketed hitscan into pharah), but by and large this is completely irrelevant. im a high-ranked one trick and let me tell u eu top 500 is full of them. there is no meaningful competitive threat here barring, possibly, a really fucked up tank character because of how the role works now
    c) counters are primarily archetype not character specific; its not widow that does well into pharah, its any decent ranged hitscan (pocketed ashe, cree at a pinch, hanzo if he can land logs, supports like ana/zen/bap who can add spam damage when not healing). so long as core free hero pool has a character able to fill each archetype theres no real balance issue

    this is basically what i was expecting from day 0? they would just rip off the successful models? idk what the worry is about

    theres going to be a timesink normie currency and a premium currency most likely too, and the character will likely be available with both if u dont want to wait for bp on top...

    surrealitycheck on
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    PailryderDrowsBloodySloth
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited September 2022


    Edit: Karq apparently got a heads up on what she can do:

    Nobody on
    KoopahTroopahBionicPenguin
  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    She looks pretty dope. I think the invulnerability thing will get nerfed almost immediately.

  • ronzoronzo Registered User regular
    Too bad she’s at BP lvl 55 out of 80 unless you pony up for the paid version or have OW1.

    BionicPenguinTexiKenKoopahTroopah
  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    edited September 2022
    Yeah. They aren't doing the thing I hoped they'd do and unlock her for everyone at the end of the season. That sucks. Instead, new heroes can be unlocked in future seasons by completing challenges or by buying them with Overwatch Coins.

    Edit: The blog post about Battle Passes

    BionicPenguin on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    I've never played a game with a battle pass.

    I read the article twice and there's no real answer so I'm just assuming tier 55 means level 55 like you normally do in the game, because I have no concept of tiers beyond a linear play. Some bonuses for teaming up and weekly challenges which seems like that's a good way to fuck with a match (a challenge of "do XXX damage with an ult in so many seconds" which means a select few characters, etc). But if a tier is roughly a level, unless you're playing this game hardcore or doing all the challenges first and foremost it's gonna be nearly two months for a normie player who plays maybe 2-3 games a night.


    Kiriko seems fine, the naruto hand symbols lol, lmao even. The invulnerability is a serious "stop doing this" ability that shouldn't be on a cooldown which will easily make it double lamps meta with Bap for the first month.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited September 2022
    You can buy premium battlepass for 1k ow coins so ye u can funbux it without real mone given ur old ow currency gets converted and u can get coins from challenges

    ow1 coin hoarders rejoice

    tho who knows what they are cordoned off from buying

    surrealitycheck on
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  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited September 2022
    Christ. Tier 55? If we're saying that with regular play, you're expected to comfortably finish the battlepass, that's still about a month and a half before new heroes unlock. Also, it's funny that they say there are 80 tiers, but also, there are also extra tiers for limited time only rewards beyond that. So... more than 80 tiers, guys. You're just calling them TIER+.

    And I don't buy into the theory that they'll be handing out enough premium currency to easily buy it either. Basically everything with battlepasses hand out pittances to get you to spend money to actually have enough. By their own screenshot, it looks like you can earn a whopping 60 coins a week. So at a cost of 1000 for the premium battlepass, that'll take you... a mere four and a half months for your first one, assuming you play enough to... good god, it looks like most challenges are basically "win 10 games in each individual mode." That's a fucking lot of games!

    And they say that credits are converted specifically to a different currency only for basekit costumes, old OW1 cosmetics, and weapon charms. Not for anything useful.

    ArcTangent on
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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    I've never played a game with a battle pass.

    I read the article twice and there's no real answer so I'm just assuming tier 55 means level 55 like you normally do in the game, because I have no concept of tiers beyond a linear play. Some bonuses for teaming up and weekly challenges which seems like that's a good way to fuck with a match (a challenge of "do XXX damage with an ult in so many seconds" which means a select few characters, etc). But if a tier is roughly a level, unless you're playing this game hardcore or doing all the challenges first and foremost it's gonna be nearly two months for a normie player who plays maybe 2-3 games a night.

    This is a very wait and see sort of thing. Battlepass systems can range from basically fine to fucking terrible. If they follow best practice sort of thing then your average engaged player should be able to complete the pass, maybe with a slight uptick in playtime towards the end of the season. It is hard to judge since OW1 is really dead right now but I'd guess the pass should be built to take roughly a weekly event challenge of playtime a week over the season. Probably a little less to allow reasonable catch up at the end. Still expect to see folks who finish it the first week.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    So can someone explain to me how battle passes work exactly. I don't play these confounded zoomer games.

  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited September 2022
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    So can someone explain to me how battle passes work exactly. I don't play these confounded zoomer games.

    You know how events have like "Win 3 games, get X, Win 6 games, get Y, Win 9 games, get Z"? Like that, except for some kind of experience based system instead of just winning games, and over a season (9 weeks) with 80 tiers. Almost always, they're accompanied by side challenges (basically achievements, eg Hook someone with Roadhog 50 times), which unlock gradually over the season that give extra injections of experience or whatever the battlepass progression points are. There's also pretty much always a 'free' track and a 'premium' track. Every tier has some reward associated with it, but you only get all of them if you've paid for the premium. Otherwise, you only get a certain subset (eg the rewards on tiers 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 55, etc), but you still have to progress through the premium tiers regardless. If you choose to pay for the premium track at any point, you get the rewards for all the tiers you already went through. Often, the premium tiers will give you enough of the paid currency to buy the next one to ensure that people keep playing indefinitely.

    And once a season is over/the battle pass expires, all the rewards are gone and unachievable for maximum FOMO.

    ArcTangent on
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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    General battlepass info:

    Battlepasses have a start and end date. Game depending, they can run anywhere from only a few weeks to a few months.

    Battlepasses almost always have a free tier which only has a few milestones along the way and is very sparse with the rewards.

    Premium Battlepasses are loaded with rewards, most of them undesirable and used to pad it out, like emotes, sprays, and other such things that are largely trivial. Then there will be a few big ticket items scattered throughout. Usually skins, weapons, or in the case of OW2, characters.


    The idea is just FOMO marketing. Limited time rewards that you have to play a ton in order to earn and unlock. It's shitty, and I said this a few pages ago but I have never seen a game that was improved by having a battlepass in it. It's just a way for devs to drive up engagement metrics and MAU's. They hold rewards hostage behind completing tasks and challenges. Battlepass is the evolution of DLC. Why sell somebody something they want when you could instead sell it to them and then also force them to earn it. So you're actually paying double for anything on the battlepass. You're paying for it with your money and with your time.

    It's bullshit is what it is.

  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    edited September 2022
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    So can someone explain to me how battle passes work exactly. I don't play these confounded zoomer games.

    You know how events have like "Win 3 games, get X, Win 6 games, get Y, Win 9 games, get Z"? Like that, except for some kind of experience based system instead of just winning games, and over a season (9 weeks) with 80 tiers. Almost always, they're accompanied by side challenges (basically achievements, eg Hook someone with Roadhog 50 times), which unlock gradually over the season that give extra injections of experience or whatever the battlepass progression points are. There's also pretty much always a 'free' track and a 'premium' track. Every tier has some reward associated with it, but you only get all of them if you've paid for the premium. Otherwise, you only get a certain subset (eg the rewards on tiers 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 55, etc), but you still have to progress through the premium tiers regardless. If you choose to pay for the premium track at any point, you get the rewards for all the tiers you already went through. Often, the premium tiers will give you enough of the paid currency to buy the next one to ensure that people keep playing indefinitely.

    And once a season is over/the battle pass expires, all the rewards are gone and unachievable for maximum FOMO.

    That last bit depends on the game and it isn't clear if it applies here. I don't think they ever actually say you can keep chasing an older battle pass, but they do say the following:
    Prestige tiers only become available after completing the 80 rewards tiers of the Battle Pass, and they reward unique, hero titles that players can equip on their name cards. These rewards take longer to unlock because they’re not offered at every Prestige tier. You will only be able to earn specific Prestige tier titles during the season they are available. For example, you cannot earn Season One titles during Season Two.

    BionicPenguin on
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited September 2022
    Yeah. Some games do make the rewards achievable or purchasable later though. DBD, for example, is pretty good about putting up everything about 9 months after each of its 'battlepasses' expires, though its battlepass is also one of the least predatory since the rewards in it are rarely particularly desireable. That's not a safe assumption though. Stuff like Fortnite deliberately locks away completely random things forever just so it can be used/seen for bragging rights. Paladins locks out a bunch of things forever, and puts the rest into paid loot boxes, which is somehow the stupidest and worst I've ever seen.

    I'm sure the company line will be that most things will be available SOMEDAY, but most are meant to be a limited special reward like the Widowmaker Nova skin or Blizzcon skins.

    E:
    Oh, apparently they've said that no premium currency will be in the battlepass rewards. So... yeah, you can 'earn' a premium battlepass once approximately every 2.5 months assuming you play like 50 games a week spread out across every mode. Otherwise, shell out that money. Oof.

    ArcTangent on
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  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    Level 55 is much higher than I was hoping for, I hope the grind isn't too awful. Even so, let's assume you have to buy the hero. If that's all you want, then you'll need to buy every other battle pass. That's $10 every 4 months, meaning $2.5/mo. I don't think it's that bad. I've said it before, having solid monetization means the developers have the incentive to keep making content for the game as long as it's popular, and battlepasses are a proven successful model.

  • TalithTalith 変態という名の紳士 Miami, FLRegistered User regular
    Looks like if you have the OW 1 founder's pack you also immediately unlock Kiriko.

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  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    I think it's all OW1 owners get Kiriko, it seems like an olive branch to the community who were super pissed about it.

  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    Is there a difference between owning OW1 and the Founder's Pack? Or is the subset of those people who played OW1 during some of the free promotions, and/or bought it after June (?) 2022?

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  • Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    The Founders Pack is just something you get if you ever bought OW1 at any point before June, that's it as far as I can tell.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    ok so after seeing only every other bp is a hero an f2p player can get every single premium battlepass without paying that has a hero on it

    so u dont even have to wait if ur f2p u literally can just farm the challenges.

    the end of the world it is not

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  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    No one here has been calling it the end of the world. It just kind of sucks. Level 55 is pretty far into the battle pass and that's a lot of time commitment.

    We also don't know the details of earning the new heroes after their seasons. If it's "play 20 quickplay or ranked matches to unlock a hero" that's not so bad. I doubt it'll be that easy, though.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    to be real we are all boomers with $10 spare every 18 weeks if push comes to shove

    what we lack in youthfulness we make up for in errr income

    last year I was in a gm game and somebody asked me how old I was I said 34 and he said “wow I hope I can be high sr when I’m old” and I turned into a skellington on the spot

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    PailryderLocal H JayKorrorFencingsaxDonnictonWhelk
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    No one here has been calling it the end of the world. It just kind of sucks. Level 55 is pretty far into the battle pass and that's a lot of time commitment.

    What are you basing this on? Have they released an expected matches per a level or something?

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    you get bp xp for doing challenges so I would expect bop progress to be a lot more frontloaded than levels in ow1

    so probably lower total time per rank but to do it efficiently you have to stagger it

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  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    No one here has been calling it the end of the world. It just kind of sucks. Level 55 is pretty far into the battle pass and that's a lot of time commitment.

    What are you basing this on? Have they released an expected matches per a level or something?

    I'm basing this on it being an 80 level battle pass that lasts for 90 days and Blizzard being a company that wants to make money.

  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    The onus is on Blizzard to explain their battlepass, they just threw it out there with numbers with no reference so we're just having to assume it's like their current level system. Yes yes OW2 launch is coming soon, hunkering down, but the silence is deafening and pretty deliberate on their part.

  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    to be real we are all boomers with $10 spare every 18 weeks if push comes to shove

    what we lack in youthfulness we make up for in errr income

    last year I was in a gm game and somebody asked me how old I was I said 34 and he said “wow I hope I can be high sr when I’m old” and I turned into a skellington on the spot

    The other day I was in a destiny raid with a very chatty 10 year old British kid and about halfway through they said "I've been up all nite it's 7am here" and I was like yo where are your parents kid and then she said no I'm not a 10 yr old British boy I am a 55 year old British woman

    And the entire lobby ground to halt to process this new information

    Xbox - Local H Jay
    PS - Local_H_Jay
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    surrealitycheckFencingsaxDonnictonNobodyPailryder
  • Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    The onus is on Blizzard to explain their battlepass, they just threw it out there with numbers with no reference so we're just having to assume it's like their current level system. Yes yes OW2 launch is coming soon, hunkering down, but the silence is deafening and pretty deliberate on their part.

    Like I get that we want answers and not everything is clear right now, but they just announced a new hero and more details about the battle pass, and we still have over 2 weeks before the game is available

    "the silence is deafening and deliberate" is a little melodramatic

  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    They've been quiet for a long time before this character reveal. We were promised more feedback and just general "here's where we are" but it's not been the case, when it should be the go-to in hyping up the launch of the new game. And lets be fair here, this is not a brand new game, it's a upgrade with half of the promised content delayed for an indefinite amount of time.

    You don't need sitdowns with Soe and overly scripted hour long videos, a written blog post every two weeks would be fine. 343 drops the ball all the time but they at least put out a monthly letter to tell you how they're dropping the ball. That they haven't tried to explain the battle pass until two weeks before OW2 is another example, and people are still confused about it. In a simple interacting with the community sense, the battlepass could have been something brought up during and after beta 2 in a two or three minute video or a flow chart pdf. The Jeff videos and forum announcements are a low bar that can be easily matched, they just don't want to, and a company of Blizzard's size, even with all their internal issues, can still do those.

    This is a response from the OW lead pretty much confirming it's going to be a grind like we suspected unless you pay, from this article:

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    "Do you guys not have phonesfree hours every day to grind?"

    I get it doesn't matter because for all the bitching about Diablo Immortal it's making money hand over fist, but just pretend to care plz k thx.

  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited September 2022
    Oh, that's something that hadn't even occurred to me. It's going to incredibly warp ranked play for weeks, if not close to a month, and basically makes it a pay to play mode for what they're expecting to be at least half the season, if not completely lock out people entirely if they only play like 4-8 hours a week.

    That's... ew.

    ArcTangent on
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