So, Buncombe County (where I live and work) is still only receiving fewer than 2000 first doses of the COVID vaccine every week. I've gotten so frustrated with it that I am emailing my elected officials. At the current rate it will take over 2.5 YEARS to fully vaccinate the entire county. I have been patiently waiting my turn but I am out of patience. Where the fuck are the 100 million doses promised? Where in the fuck are the other 200 million?
I am regularly expected to work at medical facilities that perform COVID tests. I am so sick and fucking tired of fearing for my life every time I have to go onsite.
Brace yourself for this, my guy, because I'm about to blow your mind with this wildly unforeseeable twist
Plus, some portion (higher than we'd all like, for sure) will refuse the vaccine, or at least say so loudly until getting it becomes a necessity to travel or something.
Yeah, yeah, I get it. Those refusing to get it will also remain a potential threat vector to those who can't (those who aren't cleared for it due to age, those who have a medical condition precluding getting it, etc), but it is a factor. Even 5 or 10% refusing (on grounds of waiting to see what happens longer term, or outright full blown Anti-Vaxxing, whatever it might be) will be that many fewer people in line ahead of those of us in age/health/work situations that keep us lower in the priority line.
Also yes, I know that for some cities/states/provinces/countries 5 or 10% could be very high or egregiously low. I'm speaking as a Canadian on a heavily (but not universally) US focused forum, that does also have members from all over the world in it, just to head off the 'oh you sweet summer child' type posts. I get it, some of y'all live in a plague colony, and its proximity to and trade arrangements with where I am makes me hope y'all keep getting your shit sorted out, including the anti-mask/anti-vaxx elements that, while we certainly have home grown members of, is also somewhat shipped across the border with the rest of the political shenanigans.
Especially with conservatism's eagerness to ship hate around the world as a major export, no matter how petty, unrealistic, imagined, or made up from whole cloth those grievances are.
Definitely an entwined element of this that has been frustrating to watch play out over and over again.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Plus, some portion (higher than we'd all like, for sure) will refuse the vaccine, or at least say so loudly until getting it becomes a necessity to travel or something.
Yeah, yeah, I get it. Those refusing to get it will also remain a potential threat vector to those who can't (those who aren't cleared for it due to age, those who have a medical condition precluding getting it, etc), but it is a factor. Even 5 or 10% refusing (on grounds of waiting to see what happens longer term, or outright full blown Anti-Vaxxing, whatever it might be) will be that many fewer people in line ahead of those of us in age/health/work situations that keep us lower in the priority line.
Also yes, I know that for some cities/states/provinces/countries 5 or 10% could be very high or egregiously low. I'm speaking as a Canadian on a heavily (but not universally) US focused forum, that does also have members from all over the world in it, just to head off the 'oh you sweet summer child' type posts. I get it, some of y'all live in a plague colony, and its proximity to and trade arrangements with where I am makes me hope y'all keep getting your shit sorted out, including the anti-mask/anti-vaxx elements that, while we certainly have home grown members of, is also somewhat shipped across the border with the rest of the political shenanigans.
Especially with conservatism's eagerness to ship hate around the world as a major export, no matter how petty, unrealistic, imagined, or made up from whole cloth those grievances are.
Definitely an entwined element of this that has been frustrating to watch play out over and over again.
Anti vaxx people are everywhere sadly, even like Israel and the UK are having issues as their rollout expands.
It's going to be easy to get to like, 35% vaccinated (in terms of persuading the people), as soon as you get much beyond that you'll start bumping into people who are too busy, or think its not a big deal, or don't want a headache and so on. Good news for those of us who desperately want the vaccine. A tough time for society. It's why the childrens vaccine is so important. Because people will be 'happy' to make that mandatory.
Plus, some portion (higher than we'd all like, for sure) will refuse the vaccine, or at least say so loudly until getting it becomes a necessity to travel or something.
Yeah, yeah, I get it. Those refusing to get it will also remain a potential threat vector to those who can't (those who aren't cleared for it due to age, those who have a medical condition precluding getting it, etc), but it is a factor. Even 5 or 10% refusing (on grounds of waiting to see what happens longer term, or outright full blown Anti-Vaxxing, whatever it might be) will be that many fewer people in line ahead of those of us in age/health/work situations that keep us lower in the priority line.
Also yes, I know that for some cities/states/provinces/countries 5 or 10% could be very high or egregiously low. I'm speaking as a Canadian on a heavily (but not universally) US focused forum, that does also have members from all over the world in it, just to head off the 'oh you sweet summer child' type posts. I get it, some of y'all live in a plague colony, and its proximity to and trade arrangements with where I am makes me hope y'all keep getting your shit sorted out, including the anti-mask/anti-vaxx elements that, while we certainly have home grown members of, is also somewhat shipped across the border with the rest of the political shenanigans.
Especially with conservatism's eagerness to ship hate around the world as a major export, no matter how petty, unrealistic, imagined, or made up from whole cloth those grievances are.
Definitely an entwined element of this that has been frustrating to watch play out over and over again.
Anti vaxx people are everywhere sadly, even like Israel and the UK are having issues as their rollout expands.
It's going to be easy to get to like, 35% vaccinated (in terms of persuading the people), as soon as you get much beyond that you'll start bumping into people who are too busy, or think its not a big deal, or don't want a headache and so on. Good news for those of us who desperately want the vaccine. A tough time for society. It's why the childrens vaccine is so important. Because people will be 'happy' to make that mandatory.
Some part of that will be "if everybody else has it, then I don't need to". The amount of relying on others to do the heavy lifting we have in our society is just ridiculous.
Like people I know, who can absolutely afford it, skipping out on how much tax they pay, because other people should pay for roads, schools, and our healthcare system.
I suspect it's always been an issue, but I'm noticing it more and more.
Plus, some portion (higher than we'd all like, for sure) will refuse the vaccine, or at least say so loudly until getting it becomes a necessity to travel or something.
Yeah, yeah, I get it. Those refusing to get it will also remain a potential threat vector to those who can't (those who aren't cleared for it due to age, those who have a medical condition precluding getting it, etc), but it is a factor. Even 5 or 10% refusing (on grounds of waiting to see what happens longer term, or outright full blown Anti-Vaxxing, whatever it might be) will be that many fewer people in line ahead of those of us in age/health/work situations that keep us lower in the priority line.
Also yes, I know that for some cities/states/provinces/countries 5 or 10% could be very high or egregiously low. I'm speaking as a Canadian on a heavily (but not universally) US focused forum, that does also have members from all over the world in it, just to head off the 'oh you sweet summer child' type posts. I get it, some of y'all live in a plague colony, and its proximity to and trade arrangements with where I am makes me hope y'all keep getting your shit sorted out, including the anti-mask/anti-vaxx elements that, while we certainly have home grown members of, is also somewhat shipped across the border with the rest of the political shenanigans.
Especially with conservatism's eagerness to ship hate around the world as a major export, no matter how petty, unrealistic, imagined, or made up from whole cloth those grievances are.
Definitely an entwined element of this that has been frustrating to watch play out over and over again.
Anti vaxx people are everywhere sadly, even like Israel and the UK are having issues as their rollout expands.
It's going to be easy to get to like, 35% vaccinated (in terms of persuading the people), as soon as you get much beyond that you'll start bumping into people who are too busy, or think its not a big deal, or don't want a headache and so on. Good news for those of us who desperately want the vaccine. A tough time for society. It's why the childrens vaccine is so important. Because people will be 'happy' to make that mandatory.
Some part of that will be "if everybody else has it, then I don't need to". The amount of relying on others to do the heavy lifting we have in our society is just ridiculous.
Like people I know, who can absolutely afford it, skipping out on how much tax they pay, because other people should pay for roads, schools, and our healthcare system.
I suspect it's always been an issue, but I'm noticing it more and more.
It's a massive problem, and I fear our communication around vaccine precautions is just giving people like this more and more ammunition to use when they say, "Eh, I'll get the vaccine in a few weeks, maybe after the kids summer vacation. There's no rush, after all, it doesn't help me or change what I can do"
“ The documents published by the F.D.A. on Wednesday showed that the new vaccine had an overall efficacy rate of 72 percent in the United States and 64 percent in South Africa, where a concerning variant emerged in the fall that is now driving most cases. The efficacy in South Africa was seven percentage points higher than earlier data released by the company showed.
The vaccine also showed 86 percent efficacy against severe forms of Covid-19 in the United States, and 82 percent against severe disease in South Africa. That means that a vaccinated person has a far lower risk of being hospitalized or dying from Covid-19. None of the nearly 22,000 vaccinated people in the trial died of Covid-19.”
“ Preliminary data suggests that the vaccine’s protective effects grow in the weeks after vaccination. After 42 days, for example, only one vaccinated person got Covid-19, whereas 13 people in the placebo group did, which translates to a 92.4 percent efficacy rate. It’s not clear how long the vaccine’s protection will last before it wanes, an uncertainty that hovers over all the coronavirus vaccines, since they have only gone into testing in recent months.”
You should also be aware that previous statements which described a rising efficiency against severe disease and hospitalizations still stand. Effectively, this appears to be multiply good news in this time of rising concern about variants.
First, this is potentially a valuable single shot vaccine which will be excellent for reaching isolated communities and people in the US and around the world, and it’s a more classic vaccine with a single shot protocol which may make persuading marginal anti Vaxxers to get it simpler.
Second, the degradation of vaccine effect from the most concerning variant/mutation combination is narrowing as more data comes in, and the overall effacacy is trending up. Be cautious, but get vaccinated ASAP.
Thirdly, while yields have not been where we’d hoped, there are potentially 3-4 million doses available of this next week. That’s equivalent to 6-8 million of the others (ish, different effacacy) which will be a welcome boost to vaccination efforts after the snowstorm ground them to a stall.
The FDA advisory panel just unanimously voted 22-0-0 that the body of research shows that Johnson and Johnson COVID19 vaccine is safe (edit: or rather that the benefits outweigh any potential adverse effects) for people over the age of 18.
Expectations are that the drug will be approved for use this weekend
Interesting how J&J seems to be on the road to approval in the US in a day or two, and Canada has just approved the Astra-Zenica vaccine. I hope its fair to expect that both countries will have both vaccines approved soon.
I'm very surprised that the US hasn't approved Astra/Oxford at this point. Other than that one outlier trial in south africa all the data coming out from the UK seems to be showing that it, and the other vaccines are slam dunks. We're seeing 90% reduction in hospitalizations, and 75% reductions in infections after 14 days (IE, eliminating both asymptomatic and symptomatic disease, the people just ARENT being infected at all, not conversion of symptomatic to asymptomatic) from 1 dose. Oxford messed up their trial, and they KEEP ON messing up their trials, but there are 20 million doses of it sitting in a warehouse in Michigan and all the real world data is showing that it works really well.
The FDA advisory panel just unanimously voted 22-0-0 that the body of research shows that Johnson and Johnson COVID19 vaccine is safe (edit: or rather that the benefits outweigh any potential adverse effects) for people over the age of 18.
Expectations are that the drug will be approved for use this weekend
The FDA advisory panel just unanimously voted 22-0-0 that the body of research shows that Johnson and Johnson COVID19 vaccine is safe (edit: or rather that the benefits outweigh any potential adverse effects) for people over the age of 18.
Expectations are that the drug will be approved for use this weekend
Very good news. Every shot limits the ability of the virus to spread and change. And this will be a huge boon (eventually...) to poor countries managing the disease.
"That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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JeanHeartbroken papa bearGatineau, QuébecRegistered Userregular
Here, at least, polls indicate 90% want to take the vaccine.
In Québec I saw a new poll the other day that showed the following results
Accept the vaccine 73.9%
Hesitant : 17.2%
Refuse the vaccine : 9%
That's a significant improvement compared to November. The results were then
Accept : 62%
Hesitant : 24%
Refuse : 14%
"You won't destroy us, You won't destroy our democracy. We are a small but proud nation. No one can bomb us to silence. No one can scare us from being Norway. This evening and tonight, we'll take care of each other. That's what we do best when attacked'' - Jens Stoltenberg
A lot of those November numbers, IMO, were due to lingering concerns that the Trump administration might use its influence to rush out a bad vaccine to try to win the election.
Fortunately for all of us, neither of those things actually happened.
Commander Zoom on
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MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
Mar 4: Brazil reports 75,102 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase on record, and 1,699 new deaths
Mar 5: Brazil reports 75,495 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase on record, and 1,800 new deaths
Getting kinda worried about the sudden rise of cases and deaths in Brazil in this second wave. Both weekly cases and deaths are reaching new records despite the first wave being basically unmitigated and the federal government being active saboteurs working for the disease. The new variant from Manaus, called P.1, seems to have similar mutations to the UK variant B.1.1.7 to make it more transmissible, and also like the South African variant B.1.351 seems to be hitting younger people harder and has ways of evading acquired immunity and causing reinfections. We'll have to hope vaccines work against it - it's hard to say now since vaccinations are lagging in Brazil too.
Jair "Genocide" Bolsonaro of course is responding to it by telling the nation to "stop whining."
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TetraNitroCubaneThe DjinneratorAt the bottom of a bottleRegistered Userregular
Mar 4: Brazil reports 75,102 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase on record, and 1,699 new deaths
Mar 5: Brazil reports 75,495 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase on record, and 1,800 new deaths
Getting kinda worried about the sudden rise of cases and deaths in Brazil in this second wave. Both weekly cases and deaths are reaching new records despite the first wave being basically unmitigated and the federal government being active saboteurs working for the disease. The new variant from Manaus, called P.1, seems to have similar mutations to the UK variant B.1.1.7 to make it more transmissible, and also like the South African variant B.1.351 seems to be hitting younger people harder and has ways of evading acquired immunity and causing reinfections. We'll have to hope vaccines work against it - it's hard to say now since vaccinations are lagging in Brazil too.
Jair "Genocide" Bolsonaro of course is responding to it by telling the nation to "stop whining."
Something I've been wondering about - Is there any mechanistic reason to assume vaccines will succeed against variants that can overcome acquired immunity? I legitimately don't know.
They could. I think all the vaccines are cued to the spike protein, instead of a natural immune response which is a more haphazard response to all nonrecognized proteins / mrna.
The idea is that by triggering on the protein used to attach and enter cells it becomes harder for mutations to happen and still be a functioning virus.
There was some indication in lab tests that the immune response to the S-A variant was lower compared to previous variants. Perhaps because the S-A variant has multiple spike protein mutations. But there was still immune system response and it's unclear how such response differences impact infection, transmission and illness progression
Mar 4: Brazil reports 75,102 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase on record, and 1,699 new deaths
Mar 5: Brazil reports 75,495 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase on record, and 1,800 new deaths
Getting kinda worried about the sudden rise of cases and deaths in Brazil in this second wave. Both weekly cases and deaths are reaching new records despite the first wave being basically unmitigated and the federal government being active saboteurs working for the disease. The new variant from Manaus, called P.1, seems to have similar mutations to the UK variant B.1.1.7 to make it more transmissible, and also like the South African variant B.1.351 seems to be hitting younger people harder and has ways of evading acquired immunity and causing reinfections. We'll have to hope vaccines work against it - it's hard to say now since vaccinations are lagging in Brazil too.
Jair "Genocide" Bolsonaro of course is responding to it by telling the nation to "stop whining."
Something I've been wondering about - Is there any mechanistic reason to assume vaccines will succeed against variants that can overcome acquired immunity? I legitimately don't know.
Like, 4 posts back. Johnson and Johnson works against the SA variant which is the most concerning variant in terms of behavior on the bench vs antibodies (IE, it has the largest decrease in neutralization titer vs natural and antibody induced antibodies).
“ The documents published by the F.D.A. on Wednesday showed that the new vaccine had an overall efficacy rate of 72 percent in the United States and 64 percent in South Africa, where a concerning variant emerged in the fall that is now driving most cases. The efficacy in South Africa was seven percentage points higher than earlier data released by the company showed.
The vaccine also showed 86 percent efficacy against severe forms of Covid-19 in the United States, and 82 percent against severe disease in South Africa. That means that a vaccinated person has a far lower risk of being hospitalized or dying from Covid-19. None of the nearly 22,000 vaccinated people in the trial died of Covid-19.”
“ Preliminary data suggests that the vaccine’s protective effects grow in the weeks after vaccination. After 42 days, for example, only one vaccinated person got Covid-19, whereas 13 people in the placebo group did, which translates to a 92.4 percent efficacy rate. It’s not clear how long the vaccine’s protection will last before it wanes, an uncertainty that hovers over all the coronavirus vaccines, since they have only gone into testing in recent months.”
..............
Vaccines work. Good experiments show they do. The SA and Brazil variants are concerning, but, the vaccines show every sign of working against them. Novavax did its trial with extensive recruitment in Brazil too. There are many reasons, including simply terrible reporting on the variants and what they are doing and what they are, as to why the vaccines can work highly effectively even if there is some level of evasion vs natural immunity. It is known, for example, that one thing that this virus does is create an immune response which is highly varied across many people. So, some people produce lots of highly neutralizing antibodies. Others seem to make not many at all, at least not the ones we look for. We know that its not impossible to be reinfected with the 'same' variant. It's rare, but not impossible.
The vaccines conversely produce high levels of neutralizing antibody and t-cell response in nearly everyone, and the strength of the response in the 'median' doubly vaccinated person is higher than the strong response from a natural infection.
And of course, remember that these variants are not resistant to vaccination or antibodies in concept, they are (if they are anything) resistant to the specific ones which are made to the original spike protein and the and the D117G variant (remember that we already had one documented change from the strain used for vaccines, it did propagate, theres a lot of question as to whether it actually DID very much, but, its the overwhelmingly dominant variant now). You can make a new vaccine for them if you need one, and be vaccinating 10s of millions per day within a month or so.
For those of you looking at for a real reason to be frustrated with the US government and vaccine nationalism, the above is the real scandal. The US has not approved the AstraZeneca vaccine, but it does have a major production facility here which has made 30 million doses. Which currently sit in the freezer. The US should, at the very least, order all further production from that facility to be donated to Mexico and Canada (which have approved the vaccine) to help protect our neighbors.
For those of you looking at for a real reason to be frustrated with the US government and vaccine nationalism, the above is the real scandal. The US has not approved the AstraZeneca vaccine, but it does have a major production facility here which has made 30 million doses. Which currently sit in the freezer. The US should, at the very least, order all further production from that facility to be donated to Mexico and Canada (which have approved the vaccine) to help protect our neighbors.
is it in the process of being approved? because if it's going to probably be approved in a couple weeks, I'd say hang on to them
For those of you looking at for a real reason to be frustrated with the US government and vaccine nationalism, the above is the real scandal. The US has not approved the AstraZeneca vaccine, but it does have a major production facility here which has made 30 million doses. Which currently sit in the freezer. The US should, at the very least, order all further production from that facility to be donated to Mexico and Canada (which have approved the vaccine) to help protect our neighbors.
is it in the process of being approved? because if it's going to probably be approved in a couple weeks, I'd say hang on to them
They are waiting on full published results of the second trial of the vaccine in the US which may take 4-6 more weeks at least. My opinion is that the balance of risk (let alone morality) at this point would be better served by sharing further production (not every dose so far built) with Canada and Mexico. 6 weeks of production sent to our neighbors, possibly with some of the stockpile sent too, is the correct thing to do to protect Americans (and Canadians/Mexicans) as it will allow them to finish vaccinating vulnerable groups and healthcare workers with a vaccine we are unlikely to use in large quantities here in the US.
In vaguely frustrating nonsense, this facility here in the US seems to be one of the AZ facilities successfully ramping production of the Oxford vaccine, other facilities in Europe are clearly struggling.
Edit - Well, either that or just use the damn thing right away based on real world data from the UK and EU. But the FDA hates real world data.
A growing number of countries in Europe and elsewhere have halted the use of the Oxford University-AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine, after people reportedly developed blood clots in the days following vaccination — and despite assurances from the World Health Organization and the European Union’s drug regulator.
Italy, Romania and Thailand joined at least eight other European nations this week in suspending the injections either from specific batches or as part of a total freeze, citing the potential adverse events, while the European Medical Agency conducts an investigation.
On Thursday, Denmark, Norway and Iceland all paused their AstraZeneca rollouts while Austria had already stopped using a specific batch while authorities probed a post-vaccine death caused by blood clots. Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Luxembourg also suspended use of the same batch.
...
The European Medical Agency said Friday it was investigating the reports of blood clots among those who had received the AstraZeneca vaccine, but emphasized “no indication that vaccination has caused these conditions, which are not listed as side effects with this vaccine.”
“The vaccine’s benefits continue to outweigh its risks,” the agency said in a statement.
In Italy, authorities also said Thursday that they would stop administering a separate batch of AstraZeneca doses as a precautionary measure, but added that no link was established between the vaccine and subsequent “serious adverse events,” Reuters reported.
The AstraZeneca vaccine is being notionally linked to some adverse clotting events. WHO says to still use it but Europe is suspending and this is causing push back and freezes on distribution world wide.
A growing number of countries in Europe and elsewhere have halted the use of the Oxford University-AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine, after people reportedly developed blood clots in the days following vaccination — and despite assurances from the World Health Organization and the European Union’s drug regulator.
Italy, Romania and Thailand joined at least eight other European nations this week in suspending the injections either from specific batches or as part of a total freeze, citing the potential adverse events, while the European Medical Agency conducts an investigation.
On Thursday, Denmark, Norway and Iceland all paused their AstraZeneca rollouts while Austria had already stopped using a specific batch while authorities probed a post-vaccine death caused by blood clots. Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Luxembourg also suspended use of the same batch.
...
The European Medical Agency said Friday it was investigating the reports of blood clots among those who had received the AstraZeneca vaccine, but emphasized “no indication that vaccination has caused these conditions, which are not listed as side effects with this vaccine.”
“The vaccine’s benefits continue to outweigh its risks,” the agency said in a statement.
In Italy, authorities also said Thursday that they would stop administering a separate batch of AstraZeneca doses as a precautionary measure, but added that no link was established between the vaccine and subsequent “serious adverse events,” Reuters reported.
The AstraZeneca vaccine is being notionally linked to some adverse clotting events. WHO says to still use it but Europe is suspending and this is causing push back and freezes on distribution world wide.
Europe is being stupid, this link literally does not exist, and all reporting into it should lead with “Regulators make terrible decision that is killing people”. It has nothing to do with why the US hasn’t approved the vaccine, and everyone who prints a story about it should be obliged to print a massive retraction.
National medicine agencies in these countries who aren’t using the vaccine are killing people by preventing its use. Now, they will catch up, but, people will die because of this utterly terrible reactionist decision. Perhaps it would make sense to delay deployment of a specific batch, but absolutely no more than that.
So other countries are dumb and bad and wrong to not use the AZ vaccine at the moment, but the US is just fine in choosing not to use the vaccine yet, and indeed should send its stock to other countries, who are dumb and bad and wrong not to keep using the vaccine immediately.
That ... has a modicum of racial undertone that I know, unequivocally, you're not trying to even imply, but it's kind of there anyway.
So other countries are dumb and bad and wrong to not use the AZ vaccine at the moment, but the US is just fine in choosing not to use the vaccine yet, and indeed should send its stock to other countries, who are dumb and bad and wrong not to keep using the vaccine immediately.
That ... has a modicum of racial undertone that I know, unequivocally, you're not trying to even imply, but it's kind of there anyway.
Actually, no he was pretty clear about the FDA being wankers for not using the AZ vaccine. He's very consistent on the VACCINATE EVERYONE front.
That bloodclot thing only popped up yesterday. It is very likely an unfortunate coincidence. There have been some 40m people who had an AZ vaccine, half in the UK, and certainly the UK has not seen dozens of trombosis events or worse.
The EMA (The European medicine authority) has given the green light, it's just individual nations taking action. Others are continuing, such as the Netherlands.
AstraZeneca did announce another 10m underdelivery today, dialing back Q1 numbers to 30m for the EU region (They were originally 85m, then 34m, then 40m, now 30m)
Honestly even if 1 in a million people get a blood clot from AZ it would still be worth it, and save tens of thousands of lives. Most likely it's an unfortunate incident thats unrelated, but it's being blown up by the media and will be used as fuel for the anti vaxxers. The damage is already done.
Edit: Just by sheer numbers and odds alone there are going to be some people who will / have died from the vaccine. It's inevitable but it doesn't mean it's not worth it on a society wide scale.
I thought this was truly amazing news from a raw "humans can do cool tricks too" perspective. Two vaccinations for the price of one thanks to the wonders of the placenta!
Honestly even if 1 in a million people get a blood clot from AZ it would still be worth it, and save tens of thousands of lives. Most likely it's an unfortunate incident thats unrelated, but it's being blown up by the media and will be used as fuel for the anti vaxxers. The damage is already done.
Edit: Just by sheer numbers and odds alone there are going to be some people who will / have died from the vaccine. It's inevitable but it doesn't mean it's not worth it on a society wide scale.
The incidence of DVT (a single kind of blood clot) is 80 in 100,000, with a significant portion dying from it (like, a third). A 1 in million chance for vaccinated people to get a DVT/PE compared to general population would be a huge improvement. Like, you’d have to prove that it causes clots more than the already existing rates.
Are there plans to vaccinate kids in the US? Or is the "kids aren't really affected" still the law of the land?
Its more waiting on the studies. The original studies were only on adults not children. So vaccines are currently only approved down to 16 years of age. Once it is shown as safe they will open it up for all ages.
Are there plans to vaccinate kids in the US? Or is the "kids aren't really affected" still the law of the land?
There are current ongoing clinical trials all the way down to infants, but the rush to clear FDA approval isn't as high as the initial trials to get the vaccine out to the adult public. I'm guessing we'll probably start vaccinating kids early next year but that's a figure pulled entirely out of thin air so don't quote me on it.
Are there plans to vaccinate kids in the US? Or is the "kids aren't really affected" still the law of the land?
There are current ongoing clinical trials all the way down to infants, but the rush to clear FDA approval isn't as high as the initial trials to get the vaccine out to the adult public. I'm guessing we'll probably start vaccinating kids early next year but that's a figure pulled entirely out of thin air so don't quote me on it.
Most recent descriptions I've seen have been that they want trials to demonstrate safety and effacacy, which means placebo control, which means the trials will take an eternity to enroll and an eternity to read out results (as kids are far less likely to be symptomatic and thus it's harder to show effacacy)
As such, vaccinations for teenagers maybe late this year, younger kids next year, barring a parent outcry because I expect some other countries will just start doing it based on safety data.
Are there plans to vaccinate kids in the US? Or is the "kids aren't really affected" still the law of the land?
There are current ongoing clinical trials all the way down to infants, but the rush to clear FDA approval isn't as high as the initial trials to get the vaccine out to the adult public. I'm guessing we'll probably start vaccinating kids early next year but that's a figure pulled entirely out of thin air so don't quote me on it.
Fauci recently said high-school age kids this fall though "I’m not sure it’ll exactly be on the first day that school opens but pretty close to that" and under 12 around Q1 2022.
PSN: Broodax- battle.net: broodax#1163
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MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
Bad news: cases are rising again in many parts of the world, from Europe to the Philippines to India.
Very bad news: Everything having to do with Brazil. The first wave was completely uncontrolled at best. The second wave is much, much worse. The Brazilian variant P.1 may be 2.5 times more contagious than the baseline strain (the British variant is 40% more contagious) and also seems to be infecting younger people and harder.
Honestly even if 1 in a million people get a blood clot from AZ it would still be worth it, and save tens of thousands of lives. Most likely it's an unfortunate incident thats unrelated, but it's being blown up by the media and will be used as fuel for the anti vaxxers. The damage is already done.
Edit: Just by sheer numbers and odds alone there are going to be some people who will / have died from the vaccine. It's inevitable but it doesn't mean it's not worth it on a society wide scale.
The incidence of DVT (a single kind of blood clot) is 80 in 100,000, with a significant portion dying from it (like, a third). A 1 in million chance for vaccinated people to get a DVT/PE compared to general population would be a huge improvement. Like, you’d have to prove that it causes clots more than the already existing rates.
They were seeing CVT, not DVT. Different type, less common.
Bad news: cases are rising again in many parts of the world, from Europe to the Philippines to India.
Very bad news: Everything having to do with Brazil. The first wave was completely uncontrolled at best. The second wave is much, much worse. The Brazilian variant P.1 may be 2.5 times more contagious than the baseline strain (the British variant is 40% more contagious) and also seems to be infecting younger people and harder.
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Brace yourself for this, my guy, because I'm about to blow your mind with this wildly unforeseeable twist
Trump lied.
Yeah, I mean, 8.44% of that county has had one dose. Our national rate in Canada is 2.56%
Also, we need to be careful on estimating vaccination timelines that we're excluding people the vaccine isn't cleared for.
Yeah, yeah, I get it. Those refusing to get it will also remain a potential threat vector to those who can't (those who aren't cleared for it due to age, those who have a medical condition precluding getting it, etc), but it is a factor. Even 5 or 10% refusing (on grounds of waiting to see what happens longer term, or outright full blown Anti-Vaxxing, whatever it might be) will be that many fewer people in line ahead of those of us in age/health/work situations that keep us lower in the priority line.
Also yes, I know that for some cities/states/provinces/countries 5 or 10% could be very high or egregiously low. I'm speaking as a Canadian on a heavily (but not universally) US focused forum, that does also have members from all over the world in it, just to head off the 'oh you sweet summer child' type posts. I get it, some of y'all live in a plague colony, and its proximity to and trade arrangements with where I am makes me hope y'all keep getting your shit sorted out, including the anti-mask/anti-vaxx elements that, while we certainly have home grown members of, is also somewhat shipped across the border with the rest of the political shenanigans.
Especially with conservatism's eagerness to ship hate around the world as a major export, no matter how petty, unrealistic, imagined, or made up from whole cloth those grievances are.
Definitely an entwined element of this that has been frustrating to watch play out over and over again.
Anti vaxx people are everywhere sadly, even like Israel and the UK are having issues as their rollout expands.
It's going to be easy to get to like, 35% vaccinated (in terms of persuading the people), as soon as you get much beyond that you'll start bumping into people who are too busy, or think its not a big deal, or don't want a headache and so on. Good news for those of us who desperately want the vaccine. A tough time for society. It's why the childrens vaccine is so important. Because people will be 'happy' to make that mandatory.
Some part of that will be "if everybody else has it, then I don't need to". The amount of relying on others to do the heavy lifting we have in our society is just ridiculous.
Like people I know, who can absolutely afford it, skipping out on how much tax they pay, because other people should pay for roads, schools, and our healthcare system.
I suspect it's always been an issue, but I'm noticing it more and more.
It's a massive problem, and I fear our communication around vaccine precautions is just giving people like this more and more ammunition to use when they say, "Eh, I'll get the vaccine in a few weeks, maybe after the kids summer vacation. There's no rush, after all, it doesn't help me or change what I can do"
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/24/health/covid-vaccine-johnson-and-johnson.html
“ The documents published by the F.D.A. on Wednesday showed that the new vaccine had an overall efficacy rate of 72 percent in the United States and 64 percent in South Africa, where a concerning variant emerged in the fall that is now driving most cases. The efficacy in South Africa was seven percentage points higher than earlier data released by the company showed.
The vaccine also showed 86 percent efficacy against severe forms of Covid-19 in the United States, and 82 percent against severe disease in South Africa. That means that a vaccinated person has a far lower risk of being hospitalized or dying from Covid-19. None of the nearly 22,000 vaccinated people in the trial died of Covid-19.”
“ Preliminary data suggests that the vaccine’s protective effects grow in the weeks after vaccination. After 42 days, for example, only one vaccinated person got Covid-19, whereas 13 people in the placebo group did, which translates to a 92.4 percent efficacy rate. It’s not clear how long the vaccine’s protection will last before it wanes, an uncertainty that hovers over all the coronavirus vaccines, since they have only gone into testing in recent months.”
You should also be aware that previous statements which described a rising efficiency against severe disease and hospitalizations still stand. Effectively, this appears to be multiply good news in this time of rising concern about variants.
First, this is potentially a valuable single shot vaccine which will be excellent for reaching isolated communities and people in the US and around the world, and it’s a more classic vaccine with a single shot protocol which may make persuading marginal anti Vaxxers to get it simpler.
Second, the degradation of vaccine effect from the most concerning variant/mutation combination is narrowing as more data comes in, and the overall effacacy is trending up. Be cautious, but get vaccinated ASAP.
Thirdly, while yields have not been where we’d hoped, there are potentially 3-4 million doses available of this next week. That’s equivalent to 6-8 million of the others (ish, different effacacy) which will be a welcome boost to vaccination efforts after the snowstorm ground them to a stall.
Expectations are that the drug will be approved for use this weekend
Aaaannnnddd approved!
Very good news. Every shot limits the ability of the virus to spread and change. And this will be a huge boon (eventually...) to poor countries managing the disease.
In Québec I saw a new poll the other day that showed the following results
Accept the vaccine 73.9%
Hesitant : 17.2%
Refuse the vaccine : 9%
That's a significant improvement compared to November. The results were then
Accept : 62%
Hesitant : 24%
Refuse : 14%
Fortunately for all of us, neither of those things actually happened.
Getting kinda worried about the sudden rise of cases and deaths in Brazil in this second wave. Both weekly cases and deaths are reaching new records despite the first wave being basically unmitigated and the federal government being active saboteurs working for the disease. The new variant from Manaus, called P.1, seems to have similar mutations to the UK variant B.1.1.7 to make it more transmissible, and also like the South African variant B.1.351 seems to be hitting younger people harder and has ways of evading acquired immunity and causing reinfections. We'll have to hope vaccines work against it - it's hard to say now since vaccinations are lagging in Brazil too.
Jair "Genocide" Bolsonaro of course is responding to it by telling the nation to "stop whining."
Something I've been wondering about - Is there any mechanistic reason to assume vaccines will succeed against variants that can overcome acquired immunity? I legitimately don't know.
The idea is that by triggering on the protein used to attach and enter cells it becomes harder for mutations to happen and still be a functioning virus.
There was some indication in lab tests that the immune response to the S-A variant was lower compared to previous variants. Perhaps because the S-A variant has multiple spike protein mutations. But there was still immune system response and it's unclear how such response differences impact infection, transmission and illness progression
Like, 4 posts back. Johnson and Johnson works against the SA variant which is the most concerning variant in terms of behavior on the bench vs antibodies (IE, it has the largest decrease in neutralization titer vs natural and antibody induced antibodies).
...............
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/24/health/covid-vaccine-johnson-and-johnson.html
“ The documents published by the F.D.A. on Wednesday showed that the new vaccine had an overall efficacy rate of 72 percent in the United States and 64 percent in South Africa, where a concerning variant emerged in the fall that is now driving most cases. The efficacy in South Africa was seven percentage points higher than earlier data released by the company showed.
The vaccine also showed 86 percent efficacy against severe forms of Covid-19 in the United States, and 82 percent against severe disease in South Africa. That means that a vaccinated person has a far lower risk of being hospitalized or dying from Covid-19. None of the nearly 22,000 vaccinated people in the trial died of Covid-19.”
“ Preliminary data suggests that the vaccine’s protective effects grow in the weeks after vaccination. After 42 days, for example, only one vaccinated person got Covid-19, whereas 13 people in the placebo group did, which translates to a 92.4 percent efficacy rate. It’s not clear how long the vaccine’s protection will last before it wanes, an uncertainty that hovers over all the coronavirus vaccines, since they have only gone into testing in recent months.”
..............
Vaccines work. Good experiments show they do. The SA and Brazil variants are concerning, but, the vaccines show every sign of working against them. Novavax did its trial with extensive recruitment in Brazil too. There are many reasons, including simply terrible reporting on the variants and what they are doing and what they are, as to why the vaccines can work highly effectively even if there is some level of evasion vs natural immunity. It is known, for example, that one thing that this virus does is create an immune response which is highly varied across many people. So, some people produce lots of highly neutralizing antibodies. Others seem to make not many at all, at least not the ones we look for. We know that its not impossible to be reinfected with the 'same' variant. It's rare, but not impossible.
The vaccines conversely produce high levels of neutralizing antibody and t-cell response in nearly everyone, and the strength of the response in the 'median' doubly vaccinated person is higher than the strong response from a natural infection.
And of course, remember that these variants are not resistant to vaccination or antibodies in concept, they are (if they are anything) resistant to the specific ones which are made to the original spike protein and the and the D117G variant (remember that we already had one documented change from the strain used for vaccines, it did propagate, theres a lot of question as to whether it actually DID very much, but, its the overwhelmingly dominant variant now). You can make a new vaccine for them if you need one, and be vaccinating 10s of millions per day within a month or so.
For those of you looking at for a real reason to be frustrated with the US government and vaccine nationalism, the above is the real scandal. The US has not approved the AstraZeneca vaccine, but it does have a major production facility here which has made 30 million doses. Which currently sit in the freezer. The US should, at the very least, order all further production from that facility to be donated to Mexico and Canada (which have approved the vaccine) to help protect our neighbors.
is it in the process of being approved? because if it's going to probably be approved in a couple weeks, I'd say hang on to them
They are waiting on full published results of the second trial of the vaccine in the US which may take 4-6 more weeks at least. My opinion is that the balance of risk (let alone morality) at this point would be better served by sharing further production (not every dose so far built) with Canada and Mexico. 6 weeks of production sent to our neighbors, possibly with some of the stockpile sent too, is the correct thing to do to protect Americans (and Canadians/Mexicans) as it will allow them to finish vaccinating vulnerable groups and healthcare workers with a vaccine we are unlikely to use in large quantities here in the US.
In vaguely frustrating nonsense, this facility here in the US seems to be one of the AZ facilities successfully ramping production of the Oxford vaccine, other facilities in Europe are clearly struggling.
Edit - Well, either that or just use the damn thing right away based on real world data from the UK and EU. But the FDA hates real world data.
WHO says countries should continue using AstraZeneca shots, as Italy, Romania and Thailand join others in suspending them
The AstraZeneca vaccine is being notionally linked to some adverse clotting events. WHO says to still use it but Europe is suspending and this is causing push back and freezes on distribution world wide.
Europe is being stupid, this link literally does not exist, and all reporting into it should lead with “Regulators make terrible decision that is killing people”. It has nothing to do with why the US hasn’t approved the vaccine, and everyone who prints a story about it should be obliged to print a massive retraction.
National medicine agencies in these countries who aren’t using the vaccine are killing people by preventing its use. Now, they will catch up, but, people will die because of this utterly terrible reactionist decision. Perhaps it would make sense to delay deployment of a specific batch, but absolutely no more than that.
That ... has a modicum of racial undertone that I know, unequivocally, you're not trying to even imply, but it's kind of there anyway.
Actually, no he was pretty clear about the FDA being wankers for not using the AZ vaccine. He's very consistent on the VACCINATE EVERYONE front.
The EMA (The European medicine authority) has given the green light, it's just individual nations taking action. Others are continuing, such as the Netherlands.
AstraZeneca did announce another 10m underdelivery today, dialing back Q1 numbers to 30m for the EU region (They were originally 85m, then 34m, then 40m, now 30m)
Edit: Just by sheer numbers and odds alone there are going to be some people who will / have died from the vaccine. It's inevitable but it doesn't mean it's not worth it on a society wide scale.
I thought this was truly amazing news from a raw "humans can do cool tricks too" perspective. Two vaccinations for the price of one thanks to the wonders of the placenta!
Its more waiting on the studies. The original studies were only on adults not children. So vaccines are currently only approved down to 16 years of age. Once it is shown as safe they will open it up for all ages.
There are current ongoing clinical trials all the way down to infants, but the rush to clear FDA approval isn't as high as the initial trials to get the vaccine out to the adult public. I'm guessing we'll probably start vaccinating kids early next year but that's a figure pulled entirely out of thin air so don't quote me on it.
Most recent descriptions I've seen have been that they want trials to demonstrate safety and effacacy, which means placebo control, which means the trials will take an eternity to enroll and an eternity to read out results (as kids are far less likely to be symptomatic and thus it's harder to show effacacy)
As such, vaccinations for teenagers maybe late this year, younger kids next year, barring a parent outcry because I expect some other countries will just start doing it based on safety data.
Fauci recently said high-school age kids this fall though "I’m not sure it’ll exactly be on the first day that school opens but pretty close to that" and under 12 around Q1 2022.
Very bad news: Everything having to do with Brazil. The first wave was completely uncontrolled at best. The second wave is much, much worse. The Brazilian variant P.1 may be 2.5 times more contagious than the baseline strain (the British variant is 40% more contagious) and also seems to be infecting younger people and harder.
Good news: Many Long COVID sufferers are seeing their symptoms subside or even disappear after being vaccinated. Unsure why, but any good news is good news.
They were seeing CVT, not DVT. Different type, less common.
my fiancé's sister has terrible TERRIBLE arthritis in her hands
after her second shot it went away
hopefully never to return