I'd like to see the existing Dark Sun material republished digitally with 5e rules, and a big ol honkin disclaimer at the front of the book about the bad themes present within, personally. I would not be interested in a version of Dark Sun where violence was optional, as seems to be the current trend
Actually it's weird that slavery existing within the world (and no, players should not be slavers, as a general rule) is the big concern, OG Dark Sun doesn't have any representation for LGBTQ people and baseline D&D is still terrible at it and I feel like it just kind of gets swept under the rug in nearly every discussion - I wouldn't mind seeing that be rectified
Stuff like the setting neutral material or the Forgotten Realms are designed to appeal to the widest possible demographic, so of course they'll start sanding off the rougher edges.
Dark Sun though? That shit is niche in the best of times, so just slap "mature themes" warnings on the cover and then have a forward discussing that the book contains a setting where slavery and drug use are prevalent and maybe check to see if thats okay with your group before throwing them into this world.
I've found myself doing research on purple worms and have discovered two things that my players could do to reduce their chances of getting killed by one:
According to The Ecology of the Purple Worm from a 3E issue of Dragon Magazine, a purple worm that is sufficiently harmed will excrete a smelly substance from a gland that warns others of its kind to stay away and to mark a place as dangerous. Even young purple worms have these glands, so Underdark civilizations will sometimes locate wormlings, harvest the glands, and use this substance to deter purple worms.
Though not directly related to purple worms, the foulbranch seed from a 4E issue of Dragon Magazine is an item that a person swallowed whole by a creature can drop to induce the creature to spit it back up.
So there we go: a seed that can make a purple worm (or any monster that swallows victims whole) disgorge would-be prey, and a gland within the worms themselves that that secretes a substance repulsive to them.
3rd can be fun to mine for ideas; One particular favorite I had was spell inversion, the process by which you reverse the normal result of a spell to cause opposing effects (normally this would be hurting instead of haaling with spells or changing an elemental effect or such) and this led to me concieving of a truly horrific spell to throw at players:
Bad Berry
1st level transmutation
casting time: 1 action
range: touch
components: VSM (a sprig of mistletoe)
duration: up to 24 hours.
Up to ten berries appear in your hand and are infused with magic for the duration. a creature can use a grapple action to feed the berry to another creature causing 1 necrotic damage and 1 level of exhaustion due to malnourishment to the creature.
Just Imgine if you will, a group of players having to keep their eyes open for crazed druids trying to force them to eat their shitty berries. Tell me that that's not fucking hysterical.
3rd can be fun to mine for ideas; One particular favorite I had was spell inversion, the process by which you reverse the normal result of a spell to cause opposing effects (normally this would be hurting instead of haaling with spells or changing an elemental effect or such) and this led to me concieving of a truly horrific spell to throw at players:
Bad Berry
1st level transmutation
casting time: 1 action
range: touch
components: VSM (a sprig of mistletoe)
duration: up to 24 hours.
Up to ten berries appear in your hand and are infused with magic for the duration. a creature can use a grapple action to feed the berry to another creature causing 1 necrotic damage and 1 level of exhaustion due to malnourishment to the creature.
Just Imgine if you will, a group of players having to keep their eyes open for crazed druids trying to force them to eat their shitty berries. Tell me that that's not fucking hysterical.
I do like the idea of healing the party via inverted fireball.
So I've been thinking on and off about how to start a new D&D group now that meeting in person regularly could be more of a thing. And this discussion of Dark Sun sparked some inspiration for a setting.
I love the idea of a modern environmental metaphor as the focus for the setting. I think re-imagining Dark Sun might actually be pretty easy.
Simply, the world use to be amazing. Full of life, magic, and all things good. But that energy was corrupted over thousands of years by what's now known as the Wizard God-Kings. Across the world, these God-Kings rose to power and found ways to tap into the very core of the world's power, slowly draining and destroying it. At first, it seemed like the world was entering into a Golden Age, as this power was used for all kinds of advancement for all races. Think of a high-tech metaphor here where magically powered items and machines seemed to solve all the world's problems. But with power, came even more corruption in the pursuit of more power. Even worse, a few high scholars started to realize that this source of power being drawn on was not, in fact, some infinite magic, but was actually killing the planet. But warnings went unheeded. As problems arose, God-Kings and their servants drew even more energy and power from the planet, resulting in a destructive flywheel that only hastened the demise of the planet.
Eventually, energy became harder and harder to draw upon, and the effects of such became exponentially more destructive. Natural areas started to die. Weather started to change (or stopped all together in some places). Cataclysmic events started occurring all over the planet as it died. And even as the God-Kings were watching the planet die right before their own eyes, undeniably so, the lust for power, to be the one to "fix it", and ultimately secure all the power in the world, continued. The world died, and the people fought. Wars over the last remaining resources and livable areas ultimately destroyed that as well. Civilizations fell, and what was left is nothing more than bugs crawling over the decaying bones of a dead animal.
The world is empty, harsh, and deadly. What "life" does exist outside the few remaining humanoid races is dark, twisted, and purely evil. There is no good.
And the ironic twist? The people aren't wild, savage, murderers who brutally kill or enslave each other. The world has not descended into total chaos, as the remaining people don't even have the energy for chaos. In fact, there's very little to no violence or even crime amongst those unfortunate to still be born in the world. Just like the God-Kings drew all the energy from the planet, life has been sucked from the people. Apathy and indifferences reign. People don't even care enough to fight each other. The planet makes life so miserable and brutal; people's existence is just one notch above lying in the sand and waiting to die.
But life finds a way...somewhere out there, a few individuals have been born with a spark that transcends the great emptiness of the world. Martial might. Divine grace. Magical aptitude. As if there was a tiny bit of life left in this world, and as the last sigh of a truly great and magnificent dragon, it was imparted to a few very special chosen people to take one last stand before it dies forever...
Is there such a thing as heroes?
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
So I've been thinking on and off about how to start a new D&D group now that meeting in person regularly could be more of a thing. And this discussion of Dark Sun sparked some inspiration for a setting.
I love the idea of a modern environmental metaphor as the focus for the setting. I think re-imagining Dark Sun might actually be pretty easy.
Simply, the world use to be amazing. Full of life, magic, and all things good. But that energy was corrupted over thousands of years by what's now known as the Wizard God-Kings. Across the world, these God-Kings rose to power and found ways to tap into the very core of the world's power, slowly draining and destroying it. At first, it seemed like the world was entering into a Golden Age, as this power was used for all kinds of advancement for all races. Think of a high-tech metaphor here where magically powered items and machines seemed to solve all the world's problems. But with power, came even more corruption in the pursuit of more power. Even worse, a few high scholars started to realize that this source of power being drawn on was not, in fact, some infinite magic, but was actually killing the planet. But warnings went unheeded. As problems arose, God-Kings and their servants drew even more energy and power from the planet, resulting in a destructive flywheel that only hastened the demise of the planet.
Eventually, energy became harder and harder to draw upon, and the effects of such became exponentially more destructive. Natural areas started to die. Weather started to change (or stopped all together in some places). Cataclysmic events started occurring all over the planet as it died. And even as the God-Kings were watching the planet die right before their own eyes, undeniably so, the lust for power, to be the one to "fix it", and ultimately secure all the power in the world, continued.
I know exactly who I would play as in this type of campaign setting:
How would Barret act in a world setting where there is no one to blame because the world has fallen so far past that. A world where no one even has the energy to be angry anymore. It's complete and total apathy.
I imagine this world is like a blight on the cosmos. It's the darkest of dark spots that even the worst of the cosmos leave it alone.
Maybe there's a place in the world where demons invaded after society had sufficiently fallen, hoping to enslave the planet and take it for their own hellish playground. But when they opened up portals and invaded, even they fell victim to the world...it was so awful that those who could fled back to hell, trapping some demons there forever. But on the other side, it became forbidden to even talk about such a place, and all magics, portals, or knowledge of the world was buried. Yeah, a place so awful and soul-sucking that even demons don't want to talk about it.
Or areas where celestial beings or even gods tried to intervene and help. But they were either trapped by some God-Kings and harvested or destroy. Maybe there's tombs or hidden prisons on the planet that these adventurers could uncover in hopes of reawakening someone with the divine power to help.
Maybe one of the largest mountain ranges on the continent is actually the half buried serrated tooth of a giant planet eating space leviathan. The second its first tooth cut into the planet as it was preparing to devour it, it was so infected that the leviathan itself died around the planet. Once a year, for one month the planet orbits through the carcass of the dead world eater, shrouding the entire planet into 30 days of night. As if it couldn't get worse...well, these 30 days are worse.
Anyway, I think if you dive into it, it's certainly easy to create a new version of Dark Sun that is so utterly hopeless and soul-crushing, without even having to touch the idea of slavery, genocide, or other subjects that are very cringe these days.
How would Barret act in a world setting where there is no one to blame because the world has fallen so far past that. A world where no one even has the energy to be angry anymore. It's complete and total apathy.
I imagine this world is like a blight on the cosmos. It's the darkest of dark spots that even the worst of the cosmos leave it alone.
Maybe there's a place in the world where demons invaded after society had sufficiently fallen, hoping to enslave the planet and take it for their own hellish playground. But when they opened up portals and invaded, even they fell victim to the world...it was so awful that those who could fled back to hell, trapping some demons there forever. But on the other side, it became forbidden to even talk about such a place, and all magics, portals, or knowledge of the world was buried. Yeah, a place so awful and soul-sucking that even demons don't want to talk about it.
Or areas where celestial beings or even gods tried to intervene and help. But they were either trapped by some God-Kings and harvested or destroy. Maybe there's tombs or hidden prisons on the planet that these adventurers could uncover in hopes of reawakening someone with the divine power to help.
Maybe one of the largest mountain ranges on the continent is actually the half buried serrated tooth of a giant planet eating space leviathan. The second its first tooth cut into the planet as it was preparing to devour it, it was so infected that the leviathan itself died around the planet. Once a year, for one month the planet orbits through the carcass of the dead world eater, shrouding the entire planet into 30 days of night. As if it couldn't get worse...well, these 30 days are worse.
Anyway, I think if you dive into it, it's certainly easy to create a new version of Dark Sun that is so utterly hopeless and soul-crushing, without even having to touch the idea of slavery, genocide, or other subjects that are very cringe these days.
Part of the horror ofDDark Sun as I pointed out last page, is the way in which they got to where they are.
The sorcerer kings were each empowered as a reward for genociding an entire race out of existance to try and preserve the dwindling resources of the world.
One of those kings gained so much power that he became the dragon and also determined that the being they were doing all this on behalf of was trying to eliminate all the other races outside of his own while also gaining more and more power for himelf.
The dragon was able to enact a massive ritual to trap this guy, but to keep it working he needs to sacrifice a thousand slaves per year.
Thus the 10 cities of the tablelands are constantly scrambling to get the requisite number of slaves to pay the tithes since if they don't the dragon will sieze the slaves directly from their populace or worse an unfathomably powerful sorcerer will annihilate everyone that isn't from his race.
Like it's not just that the environment is so screwed that the seas have dried up and that the Sun itself is dying It's that if they don't maintain this status quo literally everyone who isn't a halfling is dead.
That is almost how I play eberron except ongoing for the players as they play. The cataclysm that occurred in whats it’s place wasnt a fluke but the result of dabbling in magicks that should not be dabbled in. Aberrations invade not as a result of them just wanting to invade but because magick draws on and draws closer the realm of delykr. So the invasions are like magical pollution. (Just usually no one is drawing on that magic hard enough to do that). As the players play I usually blow up a realm in some way and make them figure all this out, trace it back and determine who and why people are digging into those magicks and them have them stop them… or turn the world into dark sun with aberrations if they do not.
Though the world will heal itself eventually. The civilizations that caused the pollution are never around to see it. Just more ruins
Hrm I have come to the conclusion that my players have more or less no hope for defeating the Kraken Slarkrethel and his archimage tomorrow
They spent 24 hours pursuing via ship and did not cast any buff spells in preparation as it slowed and they approached (1 hour warning)
no water breathing, no water walking, they have both available via ritual
they left their vast stockpile of potions back at home base, despite knowing where they were headed
only one of them has a contingency (had a clone purchased a few months ago)
they're.... just so fucked, unless I have the kraken be a dumbass, he's just going to grab 3 of them and pull them underwater, then fling all 3 even deeper, then on his turn go down and attack those 3 again until they're dead - and thats ignoring his spellcasting
The hostile archmage I have gripped in one of the kraken's tentacles, with water breathing on himself, acting as a turret/counterspelling station - praise be to the kraken society
Hrm I have come to the conclusion that my players have more or less no hope for defeating the Kraken Slarkrethel and his archimage tomorrow
They spent 24 hours pursuing via ship and did not cast any buff spells in preparation as it slowed and they approached (1 hour warning)
no water breathing, no water walking, they have both available via ritual
they left their vast stockpile of potions back at home base, despite knowing where they were headed
only one of them has a contingency (had a clone purchased a few months ago)
they're.... just so fucked, unless I have the kraken be a dumbass, he's just going to grab 3 of them and pull them underwater, then fling all 3 even deeper, then on his turn go down and attack those 3 again until they're dead - and thats ignoring his spellcasting
No reason the kraken couldn't curbstomp them only for them to wake up on a beach somewhere, seemingly fine, only for them to receive a psychic message that they need to do a task for the kraken within a certain amount of time or be transformed into some sea spawn/deep scions/kraken priests/whatever.
Hrm I have come to the conclusion that my players have more or less no hope for defeating the Kraken Slarkrethel and his archimage tomorrow
They spent 24 hours pursuing via ship and did not cast any buff spells in preparation as it slowed and they approached (1 hour warning)
no water breathing, no water walking, they have both available via ritual
they left their vast stockpile of potions back at home base, despite knowing where they were headed
only one of them has a contingency (had a clone purchased a few months ago)
they're.... just so fucked, unless I have the kraken be a dumbass, he's just going to grab 3 of them and pull them underwater, then fling all 3 even deeper, then on his turn go down and attack those 3 again until they're dead - and thats ignoring his spellcasting
No reason the kraken couldn't curbstomp them only for them to wake up on a beach somewhere, seemingly fine, only for them to receive a psychic message that they need to do a task for the kraken within a certain amount of time or be transformed into some sea spawn/deep scions/kraken priests/whatever.
Yeah no this is the endgame of the campaign, he already warned them to stay away and they spoiled his plans by exposing the kraken society's control over a major city - also the kraken knows that nothing he could do wouldn't be able to be undone by the party, they're level 13 with a huge amount of resources, the party is the only serious threat to the kraken's plans so I see no reason he wouldn't kill or be killed at this point (freeing King Hekaton means that all the storm giants in the world will be out to hunt for the squid)
The party treasury has enough money for two true resurrections back at home base, so the clone will wake up and have to pick which of her 4 friends she likes the best
I've never tpk'd a party at this level before, but there's a first time for everything.
Thing is, my players are not bad at D&D, normally a fight like this would involved twelve glyphs of warding and everyone would have water breathing and potions of speed and the fighter would have death ward and freedom of movement - they just got reaaalllyy cocky
Edit: I gave them a homebrew recipe they spent time ingame researching and crafting, inside their portable hole is 5 krakenhunter suits that are non attunement and give waterbreathing and a 40 foot swim speed.
I think I'm going to have the portable hole be recovered somehow and returned to the second wave, unless they pull something out of their buts that does a good job which they might
override367 on
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Powerpuppiesdrinking coffee in themountain cabinRegistered Userregular
I feel like in such a situation as a player i would want to be curbstomped
Preventing it seems like it would require blatant enough plot armor that I would not like it
At the very least I should have the kraken eat the party leader, my roommate who is borderline "lol you cant kill my character" in his attitude and kill the giant before leaving (deus ex dragon? the party has an alliance with Klauth the Red who hates the kraken)
I know his GOAL is to inhabit a mortal form, so I might pick a party member I can trust to be kidnapped and have them rejoin the party as a kraken in a tieflingsuit
Why is the krakens goal to inhabit a mortal form(or is that an intermediate step)
But nah. If this is the last session for this campaign…
Give them a speech as they come in as a/the narrator. Talk about all the things they’ve done and how heroic they have been. Talk it up reeal good. And then “… … but not all stories have happy endings” cut to normal DM voice “your ship lurches to a stop, roll initiative”
If they win, they win. If they don’t then the player with the clone gets to start the next campaign (either as an NPC hiring a fresh group of adventurers) or in search of extra bodies who will be more prepared next time or in search of money for true resurrection. (Probably someone who will be willing to have an adventuring party in their debt)
Yeah, I don't ever want to TPK a party, but if they're going into a final boss fight situation with zero prep and a cocky attitude?
Fuck 'em. They have it coming. :razz:
Yeah, it's one thing for a DM to say "Rocks fall, everyone dies".
This is party gleefully charging face first into an avalanche and laughing at the signs that say "Beware falling rocks".
As long as the deaths are glorious, if they die: they die.
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
Hrm I have come to the conclusion that my players have more or less no hope for defeating the Kraken Slarkrethel and his archimage tomorrow
They spent 24 hours pursuing via ship and did not cast any buff spells in preparation as it slowed and they approached (1 hour warning)
no water breathing, no water walking, they have both available via ritual
they left their vast stockpile of potions back at home base, despite knowing where they were headed
only one of them has a contingency (had a clone purchased a few months ago)
they're.... just so fucked, unless I have the kraken be a dumbass, he's just going to grab 3 of them and pull them underwater, then fling all 3 even deeper, then on his turn go down and attack those 3 again until they're dead - and thats ignoring his spellcasting
The hostile archmage I have gripped in one of the kraken's tentacles, with water breathing on himself, acting as a turret/counterspelling station - praise be to the kraken society
@override367, are you entirely opposed to suddenly giving one of your players the gift of prophecy?
Cause you can have them go into that fight unprepared & perform a fairly reasonable TPK, and then have one of the players wake up from a "dream" having seen what the next 12 hours has in store.
I mean... It'll feel incredibly cheap, but I'd measure it against the lasting consequences of a potentially permanent TPK.
Do you think your players would react negatively to being provided an in-game "do-over"?
In summary: You should consider pulling a Twilight: Breaking Dawn Part 2.
Definitely an ideal use case for the patented “The DM suggestively asks if you’re sure” move, but, uh, there’s a limit on how much you can actually do to save people from themselves.
E.g., do a quick check to see if the players are being idiots or if the characters are, and if it’s the characters then proceed.
My fist DnD campaign with real people (as opposed to games like Baldurs Gate from the late 90s) was 5e Tiamat adventure, the Uber that was 2 books. We had 6 PCs and had been just rolling must encounters so we're kind of cocky. When we confronted Tiamat we ignored the encounter mechanics in favor of a brute force approach. To be fair, "what you are supposed to do" per the book is either get super lucky multiple times over the previous 6 months of sessions or have a specific focus fire plan not involving Tiamat at all.
We TPW at level 14. Later i read the adventure and it states we are supposed to be 15, but in account of our earlier steamrolls the DM didn't want to level us. Oops.
He says he'll think about it for a week and let us know. Next week our characters wake up in some cave that "the resistance" is holding out hiding from the dragons that been scouring the world. It's been 2 years and they have put together the resources to res us and a lead for a potential victory. There is a dungeon where we could travel back in time. They know we failed, but we are the closest anyone ever got. It's too late for this world now, so many have died.
As they prepare a teleport spell to get us to this dungeon the dragon forces break through their defensive line and swarm the place. We teleport out as the door is caving in. There is an implication that the teleport was tracked and we have limited time.
The dungeon is the OG Tomb of Horrors.
Eventually we solved it, dinged 15, and teleported into the past for essentially a redo. But we had had a lot of time to speculate shit what we were supposed to do and "solved" the fight on 3 rounds.
Re: TPK, I'd say it depends on your players really, some cannot handle losing their characters for any reason and others prefer a good story over the well being of fictional characters. Personally I'm always down for my characters getting whacked in the name of a cool story momen (or an exceedingly funny one).
I think the prophecy idea has merit, but instead of a do-over give them a shared dream from one of their character's patron/god/etc that hints at what they're missing. So, dreams of the kraken dragging them into the depths and drowning them, that sort of thing.
Character death is a thing that happens. It's why we have HPs, death saves and a plethora of ways to prevent ourselves from going to 0 health.
If you are too oblivious to the threat posed by one of the highest CR monsters in 5e's monster manual, fighting it in it's prefered environment, doing no buffs and just blithely leaving all your expendables at home then you have no right to bleat over the death of your character.
Why is the krakens goal to inhabit a mortal form(or is that an intermediate step)
But nah. If this is the last session for this campaign…
Give them a speech as they come in as a/the narrator. Talk about all the things they’ve done and how heroic they have been. Talk it up reeal good. And then “… … but not all stories have happy endings” cut to normal DM voice “your ship lurches to a stop, roll initiative”
If they win, they win. If they don’t then the player with the clone gets to start the next campaign (either as an NPC hiring a fresh group of adventurers) or in search of extra bodies who will be more prepared next time or in search of money for true resurrection. (Probably someone who will be willing to have an adventuring party in their debt)
it's not the last session, he actually wants the giant's form, but a high powered mortal will do
there's still the doom of the desert and they haven't done the maelstrom, we all agreed if they did something early I wouldnt nerf it
Definitely an ideal use case for the patented “The DM suggestively asks if you’re sure” move, but, uh, there’s a limit on how much you can actually do to save people from themselves.
E.g., do a quick check to see if the players are being idiots or if the characters are, and if it’s the characters then proceed.
it's a bit late for that, the kraken showed up at the end of last game and one of them immediately shot him in the face with a cannon while he was talking
The only thing I'd think about is what kind of module is it?
If it's a CoS or ToA type of deal then yeah, fuck em, not interrupting a villain's monologue is, like, hero courtesy 101.
If the module up until now has been .. light and whimsical theeeeeeeen still, fuck em, they walked into the wrong goddamned ocean.
So I've been searching for different methods of dealing with monsters non-lethally or exploiting strange weaknesses in D&D that have been published in the past beyond just diplomacy. I've collected the following in case anyone is interested, and if anyone either knows of any more or as a DM has created new ones I'd be happy to hear them.
Yetis are repulsed by the smell of rotten meat in an area (Monster Manual 3, 4E).
Kruthinks will not approach an area where they can smell a number of their own have died (Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes, 5E).
Shadows hide treasure away in secluded areas not because they covet it, but because it is a painful remember of mortal life. A shadow could be tricked into temporarily leaving an area to toss away a piece of treasure (AD&D Monstrous Manual).
A purple worm that is sufficiently harmed will excrete a long-lasting, smelly substance from a gland that warns itself not to return to an area. Even purple wormlings (5E stats for which are in Storm King's Thunder, btw) possess these glands. As a result, various Underdark peoples will use the glands from slain wormlings to deter the much more dangerous adults (Dragon Magazine, 3E).
The foulbranch seed grows from cursed trees in the Feywild that kill all other vegetation around them. Should a person be swallowed whole by some large creature, depositing a foulbranch seed into the creature's stomach will cause it to immediately disgorge whatever it has swallowed and temporarily render it dazed (Dragon Magazine, 4E).
A nereid wears a mantle that contains its spirit, and should the mantle be destroyed the fey creature will die within one hour. A nereid whose mantle is stolen will go so far as agree to serve the thief in exchange for its return (Tales from the Yawning Portal, 5E).
A water weird that is bound to a befouled source of water becomes evil and threatening to those who come too close. However, casting purify food and drink to cleanse the waters also causes the weird to lose its evil alignment (Monster Manual, 5E).
My fist DnD campaign with real people (as opposed to games like Baldurs Gate from the late 90s) was 5e Tiamat adventure, the Uber that was 2 books. We had 6 PCs and had been just rolling must encounters so we're kind of cocky. When we confronted Tiamat we ignored the encounter mechanics in favor of a brute force approach. To be fair, "what you are supposed to do" per the book is either get super lucky multiple times over the previous 6 months of sessions or have a specific focus fire plan not involving Tiamat at all.
We TPW at level 14. Later i read the adventure and it states we are supposed to be 15, but in account of our earlier steamrolls the DM didn't want to level us. Oops.
He says he'll think about it for a week and let us know. Next week our characters wake up in some cave that "the resistance" is holding out hiding from the dragons that been scouring the world. It's been 2 years and they have put together the resources to res us and a lead for a potential victory. There is a dungeon where we could travel back in time. They know we failed, but we are the closest anyone ever got. It's too late for this world now, so many have died.
As they prepare a teleport spell to get us to this dungeon the dragon forces break through their defensive line and swarm the place. We teleport out as the door is caving in. There is an implication that the teleport was tracked and we have limited time.
The dungeon is the OG Tomb of Horrors.
Eventually we solved it, dinged 15, and teleported into the past for essentially a redo. But we had had a lot of time to speculate shit what we were supposed to do and "solved" the fight on 3 rounds.
Why is the krakens goal to inhabit a mortal form(or is that an intermediate step)
But nah. If this is the last session for this campaign…
Give them a speech as they come in as a/the narrator. Talk about all the things they’ve done and how heroic they have been. Talk it up reeal good. And then “… … but not all stories have happy endings” cut to normal DM voice “your ship lurches to a stop, roll initiative”
If they win, they win. If they don’t then the player with the clone gets to start the next campaign (either as an NPC hiring a fresh group of adventurers) or in search of extra bodies who will be more prepared next time or in search of money for true resurrection. (Probably someone who will be willing to have an adventuring party in their debt)
it's not the last session, he actually wants the giant's form, but a high powered mortal will do
there's still the doom of the desert and they haven't done the maelstrom, we all agreed if they did something early I wouldnt nerf it
Definitely an ideal use case for the patented “The DM suggestively asks if you’re sure” move, but, uh, there’s a limit on how much you can actually do to save people from themselves.
E.g., do a quick check to see if the players are being idiots or if the characters are, and if it’s the characters then proceed.
it's a bit late for that, the kraken showed up at the end of last game and one of them immediately shot him in the face with a cannon while he was talking
The rogue told the kraken to fuck off and shot him, legendary action to grab her with a tentacle, his turn, he tossed her in his mouth like a piece of popcorn
The party ended up running away, 2 out of 5 survived
Random NPC sailor that jumped into the water with a harpoon made it
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
The rogue told the kraken to fuck off and shot him, legendary action to grab her with a tentacle, his turn, he tossed her in his mouth like a piece of popcorn
The party ended up running away, 2 out of 5 survived
Random NPC sailor that jumped into the water with a harpoon made it
The rogue told the kraken to fuck off and shot him, legendary action to grab her with a tentacle, his turn, he tossed her in his mouth like a piece of popcorn
The party ended up running away, 2 out of 5 survived
Random NPC sailor that jumped into the water with a harpoon made it
I've been obsessively researching Orcus lore for my campaign and have just found one single solitary reference in a 4E Dragon Magazine article to a being called Vermiturge, who is described as being a servant of Orcus on par with (the much more famous) Doresain and to represent both undeath and plague.
As far as I can tell, Vermiturge has never been mentioned outside of Dragon #364 as a one-off reference, but now I can't help but imagine what he would look like.
The rogue told the kraken to fuck off and shot him, legendary action to grab her with a tentacle, his turn, he tossed her in his mouth like a piece of popcorn
The party ended up running away, 2 out of 5 survived
Random NPC sailor that jumped into the water with a harpoon made it
Did you get to do your big speech?
Nah, it was non stop combat for 4 brutal rounds
Rogue actually survived, she used cape of the mountebank to get back to the party's ship from his stomach, pretty hurt, standing on crows nest to fire from above. Kraken ate the fighter on round 2 and took a lot of damage, kraken's wizard companion was wreaking havoc as well, and followed the almost dead rogue to the player ship.
Kraken dragged the giant king and 3 party members under the waves on his third turn (while vomiting fighter up from taking damage, using his action to just petrify fighter and continuing his descent), and the sorcerer's intelligent familiar (a small genie) managed to retrieve the party's bag of holding (I am a merciful god...) that the kraken somehow let slip after eating the sorcerer and wizard, the giant had to be beaten unconscious
The archmage would have crossed off the rogue - but I knew she had a magical tattoo from long ago that gives death ward, I just pretended I forgot as I described the low health mage cackling while finger of deathing her, only for her to excitedly point out that she had the tattoo and then took him out on her turn
So a complete catastrophe and near TPK and at least the two (barely) surviving players felt like it was a big victory because I misplayed (I didn't, if he had cast Circle of Death instead, then run into the hold for cover.... everyone on the ship including both players would have been fucked), the Kraken got what he wanted and had every reason to believe his wizard would succeed (because the rogue was nearly dead, the ship's crew all but not a threat, wizard 2 unconscious, and the fighter turning to stone).
Only 2 were eaten by the kraken, one of the three floated unconscious to the surface and the petrified one was retrieved from the sea floor after coming back later and having to bribe some mermaids. Wizard's Magen and the sorcerer's genie familiar just kind of no idea what to do with themselves with their creators dead, but still want to help.
I stole a plot element from Daughter of the Drow. An asspull? Yes, certainly, but fucking hell man if I can't have any consequences in the second to last chapter of this campaign I'm never going to have any. The Kraken has sewn a tapestry containing troublesome mortal souls, which Wizard and Sorcerer are now part of. Attempts at at resurrections that were ultimately tried, did fail (I PM'd the dead players with this and we had their new characters, temporary? set up by the time it was time to introduce them)
They remembered to scry the giant ASAP after the kraken fled, the Kraken is immune to scrying, the giant king WAS while on that prison ship, but in the open water? Nope. So using the power of plot, when they ended up scrying was the perfect moment to see a sunken airship near an underwater trench, where the Kraken's lair is. Few airships exist in the world, and fewer go down over the ocean, so "it's just a matter of research" to determine where it went down.
One of the players said what every NPC ally suggested to do before going to fight the Kraken: teleport to the Maelstrom to let the Storm Giant Regent know what they know, which will unravel the BBEG's plans, and they have proof in the form of her resurrected mother (which was killed by the kraken and blamed on humans), and get help to deal with the Kraken's forces by being made SWOL via potions of giant size
ended the session on a note of positivity with the other players' temporary characters (they're playing as a drow ally and the mother of the sorcerer who is one of the instructors at the arcane academy, neither of which needed much setup) ready
oh yeah and the party being coalition minded gathered up Countess Sansuri and Thane Kaylithica, two ostensibly evil giant villains that they made an accord with and found commonality to go with them to vouch for their character despite being small folk (my players are committed to keeping the Ordening dead and gone, and have been convincing several giant lords who seek to both bring it back and be on top of it, that a divine caste system is ultimately a form of slavery and that it's best to let it stay dead)
After 2 months of constant postponing, we finally got Chapter 3 of Hoard of the Dragon Queen done tonight.
The party of Baal cultists* are now in Elturel with a dragon egg in their care (they plan to hatch it and teach it to worship Baal), after having performed evil rituals to consume the other dragon egg they procured.
Now these "Brave Heroes" are being asked to go to Baldur's Gate and mingle in with cultists, to which the party responds, "Oh wow that sounds hard we'll do our best!" with a snicker and a giggle. When promised nothing in return for doing the mission, they responded, "That's okay, we really just want to know what Tiamat tastes like."
I'm having a blast running this game. It's just so much fun to hear what new horrible awful thing they've come up with, while also having them just accept story hooks and twist them so they work.
* My players are a party of Baal cultists. There is a Cleric of Baal, a Draconblood Wizard, and a Monk/Barbarian cannibal who goes by the name Meaty Petey. Well, they're all cannibals, actually. But the Monk/Barb is in charge of cooking, he's really into it and in a very unhealthy way.
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Actually it's weird that slavery existing within the world (and no, players should not be slavers, as a general rule) is the big concern, OG Dark Sun doesn't have any representation for LGBTQ people and baseline D&D is still terrible at it and I feel like it just kind of gets swept under the rug in nearly every discussion - I wouldn't mind seeing that be rectified
Dark Sun though? That shit is niche in the best of times, so just slap "mature themes" warnings on the cover and then have a forward discussing that the book contains a setting where slavery and drug use are prevalent and maybe check to see if thats okay with your group before throwing them into this world.
Now you're REALLY being a goose, and should stop
I've found myself doing research on purple worms and have discovered two things that my players could do to reduce their chances of getting killed by one:
According to The Ecology of the Purple Worm from a 3E issue of Dragon Magazine, a purple worm that is sufficiently harmed will excrete a smelly substance from a gland that warns others of its kind to stay away and to mark a place as dangerous. Even young purple worms have these glands, so Underdark civilizations will sometimes locate wormlings, harvest the glands, and use this substance to deter purple worms.
Though not directly related to purple worms, the foulbranch seed from a 4E issue of Dragon Magazine is an item that a person swallowed whole by a creature can drop to induce the creature to spit it back up.
So there we go: a seed that can make a purple worm (or any monster that swallows victims whole) disgorge would-be prey, and a gland within the worms themselves that that secretes a substance repulsive to them.
Bad Berry
1st level transmutation
casting time: 1 action
range: touch
components: VSM (a sprig of mistletoe)
duration: up to 24 hours.
Up to ten berries appear in your hand and are infused with magic for the duration. a creature can use a grapple action to feed the berry to another creature causing 1 necrotic damage and 1 level of exhaustion due to malnourishment to the creature.
Just Imgine if you will, a group of players having to keep their eyes open for crazed druids trying to force them to eat their shitty berries. Tell me that that's not fucking hysterical.
I do like the idea of healing the party via inverted fireball.
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Boring encounter anyway.
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I love the idea of a modern environmental metaphor as the focus for the setting. I think re-imagining Dark Sun might actually be pretty easy.
Simply, the world use to be amazing. Full of life, magic, and all things good. But that energy was corrupted over thousands of years by what's now known as the Wizard God-Kings. Across the world, these God-Kings rose to power and found ways to tap into the very core of the world's power, slowly draining and destroying it. At first, it seemed like the world was entering into a Golden Age, as this power was used for all kinds of advancement for all races. Think of a high-tech metaphor here where magically powered items and machines seemed to solve all the world's problems. But with power, came even more corruption in the pursuit of more power. Even worse, a few high scholars started to realize that this source of power being drawn on was not, in fact, some infinite magic, but was actually killing the planet. But warnings went unheeded. As problems arose, God-Kings and their servants drew even more energy and power from the planet, resulting in a destructive flywheel that only hastened the demise of the planet.
Eventually, energy became harder and harder to draw upon, and the effects of such became exponentially more destructive. Natural areas started to die. Weather started to change (or stopped all together in some places). Cataclysmic events started occurring all over the planet as it died. And even as the God-Kings were watching the planet die right before their own eyes, undeniably so, the lust for power, to be the one to "fix it", and ultimately secure all the power in the world, continued. The world died, and the people fought. Wars over the last remaining resources and livable areas ultimately destroyed that as well. Civilizations fell, and what was left is nothing more than bugs crawling over the decaying bones of a dead animal.
The world is empty, harsh, and deadly. What "life" does exist outside the few remaining humanoid races is dark, twisted, and purely evil. There is no good.
And the ironic twist? The people aren't wild, savage, murderers who brutally kill or enslave each other. The world has not descended into total chaos, as the remaining people don't even have the energy for chaos. In fact, there's very little to no violence or even crime amongst those unfortunate to still be born in the world. Just like the God-Kings drew all the energy from the planet, life has been sucked from the people. Apathy and indifferences reign. People don't even care enough to fight each other. The planet makes life so miserable and brutal; people's existence is just one notch above lying in the sand and waiting to die.
But life finds a way...somewhere out there, a few individuals have been born with a spark that transcends the great emptiness of the world. Martial might. Divine grace. Magical aptitude. As if there was a tiny bit of life left in this world, and as the last sigh of a truly great and magnificent dragon, it was imparted to a few very special chosen people to take one last stand before it dies forever...
Is there such a thing as heroes?
I know exactly who I would play as in this type of campaign setting:
I imagine this world is like a blight on the cosmos. It's the darkest of dark spots that even the worst of the cosmos leave it alone.
Maybe there's a place in the world where demons invaded after society had sufficiently fallen, hoping to enslave the planet and take it for their own hellish playground. But when they opened up portals and invaded, even they fell victim to the world...it was so awful that those who could fled back to hell, trapping some demons there forever. But on the other side, it became forbidden to even talk about such a place, and all magics, portals, or knowledge of the world was buried. Yeah, a place so awful and soul-sucking that even demons don't want to talk about it.
Or areas where celestial beings or even gods tried to intervene and help. But they were either trapped by some God-Kings and harvested or destroy. Maybe there's tombs or hidden prisons on the planet that these adventurers could uncover in hopes of reawakening someone with the divine power to help.
Maybe one of the largest mountain ranges on the continent is actually the half buried serrated tooth of a giant planet eating space leviathan. The second its first tooth cut into the planet as it was preparing to devour it, it was so infected that the leviathan itself died around the planet. Once a year, for one month the planet orbits through the carcass of the dead world eater, shrouding the entire planet into 30 days of night. As if it couldn't get worse...well, these 30 days are worse.
Anyway, I think if you dive into it, it's certainly easy to create a new version of Dark Sun that is so utterly hopeless and soul-crushing, without even having to touch the idea of slavery, genocide, or other subjects that are very cringe these days.
Part of the horror ofDDark Sun as I pointed out last page, is the way in which they got to where they are.
The sorcerer kings were each empowered as a reward for genociding an entire race out of existance to try and preserve the dwindling resources of the world.
One of those kings gained so much power that he became the dragon and also determined that the being they were doing all this on behalf of was trying to eliminate all the other races outside of his own while also gaining more and more power for himelf.
The dragon was able to enact a massive ritual to trap this guy, but to keep it working he needs to sacrifice a thousand slaves per year.
Thus the 10 cities of the tablelands are constantly scrambling to get the requisite number of slaves to pay the tithes since if they don't the dragon will sieze the slaves directly from their populace or worse an unfathomably powerful sorcerer will annihilate everyone that isn't from his race.
Like it's not just that the environment is so screwed that the seas have dried up and that the Sun itself is dying It's that if they don't maintain this status quo literally everyone who isn't a halfling is dead.
That is almost how I play eberron except ongoing for the players as they play. The cataclysm that occurred in whats it’s place wasnt a fluke but the result of dabbling in magicks that should not be dabbled in. Aberrations invade not as a result of them just wanting to invade but because magick draws on and draws closer the realm of delykr. So the invasions are like magical pollution. (Just usually no one is drawing on that magic hard enough to do that). As the players play I usually blow up a realm in some way and make them figure all this out, trace it back and determine who and why people are digging into those magicks and them have them stop them… or turn the world into dark sun with aberrations if they do not.
Though the world will heal itself eventually. The civilizations that caused the pollution are never around to see it. Just more ruins
They spent 24 hours pursuing via ship and did not cast any buff spells in preparation as it slowed and they approached (1 hour warning)
no water breathing, no water walking, they have both available via ritual
they left their vast stockpile of potions back at home base, despite knowing where they were headed
only one of them has a contingency (had a clone purchased a few months ago)
they're.... just so fucked, unless I have the kraken be a dumbass, he's just going to grab 3 of them and pull them underwater, then fling all 3 even deeper, then on his turn go down and attack those 3 again until they're dead - and thats ignoring his spellcasting
The hostile archmage I have gripped in one of the kraken's tentacles, with water breathing on himself, acting as a turret/counterspelling station - praise be to the kraken society
No reason the kraken couldn't curbstomp them only for them to wake up on a beach somewhere, seemingly fine, only for them to receive a psychic message that they need to do a task for the kraken within a certain amount of time or be transformed into some sea spawn/deep scions/kraken priests/whatever.
Yeah no this is the endgame of the campaign, he already warned them to stay away and they spoiled his plans by exposing the kraken society's control over a major city - also the kraken knows that nothing he could do wouldn't be able to be undone by the party, they're level 13 with a huge amount of resources, the party is the only serious threat to the kraken's plans so I see no reason he wouldn't kill or be killed at this point (freeing King Hekaton means that all the storm giants in the world will be out to hunt for the squid)
The party treasury has enough money for two true resurrections back at home base, so the clone will wake up and have to pick which of her 4 friends she likes the best
I've never tpk'd a party at this level before, but there's a first time for everything.
Thing is, my players are not bad at D&D, normally a fight like this would involved twelve glyphs of warding and everyone would have water breathing and potions of speed and the fighter would have death ward and freedom of movement - they just got reaaalllyy cocky
Edit: I gave them a homebrew recipe they spent time ingame researching and crafting, inside their portable hole is 5 krakenhunter suits that are non attunement and give waterbreathing and a 40 foot swim speed.
I think I'm going to have the portable hole be recovered somehow and returned to the second wave, unless they pull something out of their buts that does a good job which they might
Preventing it seems like it would require blatant enough plot armor that I would not like it
I know his GOAL is to inhabit a mortal form, so I might pick a party member I can trust to be kidnapped and have them rejoin the party as a kraken in a tieflingsuit
But nah. If this is the last session for this campaign…
Give them a speech as they come in as a/the narrator. Talk about all the things they’ve done and how heroic they have been. Talk it up reeal good. And then “… … but not all stories have happy endings” cut to normal DM voice “your ship lurches to a stop, roll initiative”
If they win, they win. If they don’t then the player with the clone gets to start the next campaign (either as an NPC hiring a fresh group of adventurers) or in search of extra bodies who will be more prepared next time or in search of money for true resurrection. (Probably someone who will be willing to have an adventuring party in their debt)
Fuck 'em. They have it coming. :razz:
Yeah, it's one thing for a DM to say "Rocks fall, everyone dies".
This is party gleefully charging face first into an avalanche and laughing at the signs that say "Beware falling rocks".
As long as the deaths are glorious, if they die: they die.
@override367, are you entirely opposed to suddenly giving one of your players the gift of prophecy?
Cause you can have them go into that fight unprepared & perform a fairly reasonable TPK, and then have one of the players wake up from a "dream" having seen what the next 12 hours has in store.
I mean... It'll feel incredibly cheap, but I'd measure it against the lasting consequences of a potentially permanent TPK.
Do you think your players would react negatively to being provided an in-game "do-over"?
In summary: You should consider pulling a Twilight: Breaking Dawn Part 2.
E.g., do a quick check to see if the players are being idiots or if the characters are, and if it’s the characters then proceed.
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We TPW at level 14. Later i read the adventure and it states we are supposed to be 15, but in account of our earlier steamrolls the DM didn't want to level us. Oops.
He says he'll think about it for a week and let us know. Next week our characters wake up in some cave that "the resistance" is holding out hiding from the dragons that been scouring the world. It's been 2 years and they have put together the resources to res us and a lead for a potential victory. There is a dungeon where we could travel back in time. They know we failed, but we are the closest anyone ever got. It's too late for this world now, so many have died.
As they prepare a teleport spell to get us to this dungeon the dragon forces break through their defensive line and swarm the place. We teleport out as the door is caving in. There is an implication that the teleport was tracked and we have limited time.
The dungeon is the OG Tomb of Horrors.
Eventually we solved it, dinged 15, and teleported into the past for essentially a redo. But we had had a lot of time to speculate shit what we were supposed to do and "solved" the fight on 3 rounds.
I think the prophecy idea has merit, but instead of a do-over give them a shared dream from one of their character's patron/god/etc that hints at what they're missing. So, dreams of the kraken dragging them into the depths and drowning them, that sort of thing.
If you are too oblivious to the threat posed by one of the highest CR monsters in 5e's monster manual, fighting it in it's prefered environment, doing no buffs and just blithely leaving all your expendables at home then you have no right to bleat over the death of your character.
it's not the last session, he actually wants the giant's form, but a high powered mortal will do
there's still the doom of the desert and they haven't done the maelstrom, we all agreed if they did something early I wouldnt nerf it
it's a bit late for that, the kraken showed up at the end of last game and one of them immediately shot him in the face with a cannon while he was talking
If it's a CoS or ToA type of deal then yeah, fuck em, not interrupting a villain's monologue is, like, hero courtesy 101.
If the module up until now has been .. light and whimsical theeeeeeeen still, fuck em, they walked into the wrong goddamned ocean.
Man, Terminator is a cool movie.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Never interrupt the villain's monologue.
The party ended up running away, 2 out of 5 survived
Random NPC sailor that jumped into the water with a harpoon made it
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
Did you get to do your big speech?
As far as I can tell, Vermiturge has never been mentioned outside of Dragon #364 as a one-off reference, but now I can't help but imagine what he would look like.
Nah, it was non stop combat for 4 brutal rounds
Rogue actually survived, she used cape of the mountebank to get back to the party's ship from his stomach, pretty hurt, standing on crows nest to fire from above. Kraken ate the fighter on round 2 and took a lot of damage, kraken's wizard companion was wreaking havoc as well, and followed the almost dead rogue to the player ship.
Kraken dragged the giant king and 3 party members under the waves on his third turn (while vomiting fighter up from taking damage, using his action to just petrify fighter and continuing his descent), and the sorcerer's intelligent familiar (a small genie) managed to retrieve the party's bag of holding (I am a merciful god...) that the kraken somehow let slip after eating the sorcerer and wizard, the giant had to be beaten unconscious
The archmage would have crossed off the rogue - but I knew she had a magical tattoo from long ago that gives death ward, I just pretended I forgot as I described the low health mage cackling while finger of deathing her, only for her to excitedly point out that she had the tattoo and then took him out on her turn
So a complete catastrophe and near TPK and at least the two (barely) surviving players felt like it was a big victory because I misplayed (I didn't, if he had cast Circle of Death instead, then run into the hold for cover.... everyone on the ship including both players would have been fucked), the Kraken got what he wanted and had every reason to believe his wizard would succeed (because the rogue was nearly dead, the ship's crew all but not a threat, wizard 2 unconscious, and the fighter turning to stone).
Only 2 were eaten by the kraken, one of the three floated unconscious to the surface and the petrified one was retrieved from the sea floor after coming back later and having to bribe some mermaids. Wizard's Magen and the sorcerer's genie familiar just kind of no idea what to do with themselves with their creators dead, but still want to help.
I stole a plot element from Daughter of the Drow. An asspull? Yes, certainly, but fucking hell man if I can't have any consequences in the second to last chapter of this campaign I'm never going to have any. The Kraken has sewn a tapestry containing troublesome mortal souls, which Wizard and Sorcerer are now part of. Attempts at at resurrections that were ultimately tried, did fail (I PM'd the dead players with this and we had their new characters, temporary? set up by the time it was time to introduce them)
They remembered to scry the giant ASAP after the kraken fled, the Kraken is immune to scrying, the giant king WAS while on that prison ship, but in the open water? Nope. So using the power of plot, when they ended up scrying was the perfect moment to see a sunken airship near an underwater trench, where the Kraken's lair is. Few airships exist in the world, and fewer go down over the ocean, so "it's just a matter of research" to determine where it went down.
One of the players said what every NPC ally suggested to do before going to fight the Kraken: teleport to the Maelstrom to let the Storm Giant Regent know what they know, which will unravel the BBEG's plans, and they have proof in the form of her resurrected mother (which was killed by the kraken and blamed on humans), and get help to deal with the Kraken's forces by being made SWOL via potions of giant size
ended the session on a note of positivity with the other players' temporary characters (they're playing as a drow ally and the mother of the sorcerer who is one of the instructors at the arcane academy, neither of which needed much setup) ready
oh yeah and the party being coalition minded gathered up Countess Sansuri and Thane Kaylithica, two ostensibly evil giant villains that they made an accord with and found commonality to go with them to vouch for their character despite being small folk (my players are committed to keeping the Ordening dead and gone, and have been convincing several giant lords who seek to both bring it back and be on top of it, that a divine caste system is ultimately a form of slavery and that it's best to let it stay dead)
The party of Baal cultists* are now in Elturel with a dragon egg in their care (they plan to hatch it and teach it to worship Baal), after having performed evil rituals to consume the other dragon egg they procured.
Now these "Brave Heroes" are being asked to go to Baldur's Gate and mingle in with cultists, to which the party responds, "Oh wow that sounds hard we'll do our best!" with a snicker and a giggle. When promised nothing in return for doing the mission, they responded, "That's okay, we really just want to know what Tiamat tastes like."
I'm having a blast running this game. It's just so much fun to hear what new horrible awful thing they've come up with, while also having them just accept story hooks and twist them so they work.
* My players are a party of Baal cultists. There is a Cleric of Baal, a Draconblood Wizard, and a Monk/Barbarian cannibal who goes by the name Meaty Petey. Well, they're all cannibals, actually. But the Monk/Barb is in charge of cooking, he's really into it and in a very unhealthy way.