The wirebug moves are pretty much hunter arts again, yes. They feel really good with the shared resource though instead of being built up.
I'm amused by the possibility that some form of hunter arts might actually become standard for the series, with World being the one weird abberation for not having them. The same goes for customizable movesets being in Generations and Rise but not in World.
Wait, customizable movesets in rise?
---
Also world was built to make the game accessible to everyone, rather than have an obtuse brick wall at it's front. I've been playing since Tri and it succeeded admirably. (Literally the only pre-tri game i havent touched is GenU). The multi-platform nature helped, but the game blew up as big as it finally did because of the amount of cruft that was removed and quality of life that was added.
And i'm still going to argue to my dying breath that the Tackle addition to greatsword is one of the best pieces of game design i've ever seen. So simple! So elegant! So effective on altering and improving the style of the weapon! So great feeling to use!
The wirebug moves are pretty much hunter arts again, yes. They feel really good with the shared resource though instead of being built up.
I'm amused by the possibility that some form of hunter arts might actually become standard for the series, with World being the one weird abberation for not having them. The same goes for customizable movesets being in Generations and Rise but not in World.
Wait, customizable movesets in rise?
They haven't officially announced it yet, but they've all-but-confirmed that at least some weapons will have different options. The blast-dash-like move for gunlance that's in the trailers, but isn't in the demo and isn't a wirebug move. A more classic-style hunting horn option where you do recitals to play songs. Dataminers might have found a few more.
The wirebug moves are pretty much hunter arts again, yes. They feel really good with the shared resource though instead of being built up.
I'm amused by the possibility that some form of hunter arts might actually become standard for the series, with World being the one weird abberation for not having them. The same goes for customizable movesets being in Generations and Rise but not in World.
Wait, customizable movesets in rise?
They haven't officially announced it yet, but they've all-but-confirmed that at least some weapons will have different options. The blast-dash-like move for gunlance that's in the trailers, but isn't in the demo and isn't a wirebug move. A more classic-style hunting horn option where you do recitals to play songs. Dataminers might have found a few more.
Oh man I'd kill for a version of duals without Demon Dance. Aerial style in Gen/U didn't have it (X+A mapped to the spin-dash instead) and I've gotten used to the mobility.
the move-swap replacements don't appear to be that drastic across the board from what the dataminers pulled from the demo, but I guess we'll see at the full release.
The wirebug moves are pretty much hunter arts again, yes. They feel really good with the shared resource though instead of being built up.
I'm amused by the possibility that some form of hunter arts might actually become standard for the series, with World being the one weird abberation for not having them. The same goes for customizable movesets being in Generations and Rise but not in World.
Wait, customizable movesets in rise?
---
Also world was built to make the game accessible to everyone, rather than have an obtuse brick wall at it's front. I've been playing since Tri and it succeeded admirably. (Literally the only pre-tri game i havent touched is GenU). The multi-platform nature helped, but the game blew up as big as it finally did because of the amount of cruft that was removed and quality of life that was added.
And i'm still going to argue to my dying breath that the Tackle addition to greatsword is one of the best pieces of game design i've ever seen. So simple! So elegant! So effective on altering and improving the style of the weapon! So great feeling to use!
MHW/IB is probably going to be in a top whatever of my all-time favorites, so I'm by no means ragging on it when I say it was for noobuses.
It was made as a complete overhaul to the series with modern mechanics and huge QoL improvements, which mean sacrificing some old elements (and from what I saw of the old skill system, good fucking riddance to some of it). As a result, it was more attractive to first-timers, but rose the profile of the series massively in the Western markets.
I'm very much looking forward to Rise, which seems to be a bit deeper mechanically (especially in combat) than MHW.
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Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
I started playing GU a little bit as I had a copy sitting around. There's enough decisions in World, thanks. GU is just too much.
Plus World sold something like 4x the next best-selling installment (not counting Iceborne), most of it in the West. Accessibility is a very good reason why. They'd be throwing money away to ditch that.
If Rise can be a sort of middle ground that appeals to the olds and the noobs like me then that would be pretty great.
I started playing GU a little bit as I had a copy sitting around. There's enough decisions in World, thanks. GU is just too much.
Plus World sold something like 4x the next best-selling installment (not counting Iceborne), most of it in the West. Accessibility is a very good reason why. They'd be throwing money away to ditch that.
If Rise can be a sort of middle ground that appeals to the olds and the noobs like me then that would be pretty great.
This is the promise of Rise for me.
Thinking about it now that decos are craftable again my main issues with the skill system as it was in world might be solved.
I just felt like build variety was too hard to achieve and this fixes it. I will always miss my crazy armor skill spreadsheets but I understand why they had to go!
I just felt like world made an over correction.
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Oh god yes, craftable decos is manna from heaven.
I like some complexity in my games. I also don't mind having RNG for a few items. What I do mind is having RNG for like 10-20 individual pieces of build-defining skill gems in a game where drops are 95% monster bits and other assorted random shit.
Yeah, the lack of rng protection for decod and the frankly insane expectations the game had for playtime to get them in world is why I turned to cheating them in with mods and had zero regrets
It makes sense for the charm to be an rng farm. I have even enjoyed charm farming in the past.
On decos it was just not fun.
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
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Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
I fundamentally dislike RNG as a progression mechanic. It's why I don't like endgame raiding in MMOs, looter shooters, Diablo clones, or CCGs. So RNG decos (and some other materials like gems) are my one complaint against World.
Part of what made me keep trying to get into MH was the loop of 'want fire sword? kill fire monster and make it after X kills'. In World I am currently trying to upgrade a charm to level 3 that requires a rare drop gem or I could go slot in a deco to cover that but that is also RNG. I could get one or both on my next kill or it could take more than 100. That's discouraging.
I'm just assuming that instead of having to farm decos, we will have to farm charms again. Which aside from the farming method, randomized charms were slightly better. Not sure how they would work in World's skill system though.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
I fundamentally dislike RNG as a progression mechanic. It's why I don't like endgame raiding in MMOs, looter shooters, Diablo clones, or CCGs. So RNG decos (and some other materials like gems) are my one complaint against World.
Part of what made me keep trying to get into MH was the loop of 'want fire sword? kill fire monster and make it after X kills'. In World I am currently trying to upgrade a charm to level 3 that requires a rare drop gem or I could go slot in a deco to cover that but that is also RNG. I could get one or both on my next kill or it could take more than 100. That's discouraging.
Yeah the crazy crafting mat requirements for high level charms PLUS the completely random deco drops (Not to mention a solid 30% of your decos were ones with 2 random effects) PLUS requiring drops for the higher tier weapons PLUS requiring drops for the augments made it a bit too RNG heavy.
Again, it wouldn't be so bad if the drops weren't so infrequent. A game like Diablo 2 can get away with it because you'll likely be upgrading other parts of your build while "waiting" for the big drop, plus leveling and skill progression will continue to make your character stronger. MH doesn't have progression outside of gear.
I fundamentally dislike RNG as a progression mechanic. It's why I don't like endgame raiding in MMOs, looter shooters, Diablo clones, or CCGs. So RNG decos (and some other materials like gems) are my one complaint against World.
Part of what made me keep trying to get into MH was the loop of 'want fire sword? kill fire monster and make it after X kills'. In World I am currently trying to upgrade a charm to level 3 that requires a rare drop gem or I could go slot in a deco to cover that but that is also RNG. I could get one or both on my next kill or it could take more than 100. That's discouraging.
Yeah, the RNG on drops is there but world mostly mitigated it with investigations in that the odds are good enough? And then the tickets for the gems help. I mean, unless you need Rathian Spikes, in which case you're screwed. But other than that.
For all the streamlining that was done in World, I'm amazed that the formulas and displayed numbers for weapon stats are still as stupid as they are. We're still at a point where players invariably have to ask "so 200 fire damage is worth about the same as 200 physical damage, right?" and then the answer is twenty steps long.
For all the streamlining that was done in World, I'm amazed that the formulas and displayed numbers for weapon stats are still as stupid as they are. We're still at a point where players invariably have to ask "so 200 fire damage is worth about the same as 200 physical damage, right?" and then the answer is twenty steps long.
Yeah, I understand the idea behind the displayed numbers... But it's not very clear.
I wonder how you fix it though - like the behind the scenes math produces a very balanced game, but at cost of not being easily explained
It makes sense for the charm to be an rng farm. I have even enjoyed charm farming in the past.
On decos it was just not fun.
Charm farming was mildly enjoyable when it was drop in, hit 5 mining nodes or w/e, go home. Having a nice, chill loop that lets you unlock new and interesting options for armor sets was nice. Even if you didn't get the exact piece you wanted, there was always the chance that you would find something that would unlock a new way to use a different armor set.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
For all the streamlining that was done in World, I'm amazed that the formulas and displayed numbers for weapon stats are still as stupid as they are. We're still at a point where players invariably have to ask "so 200 fire damage is worth about the same as 200 physical damage, right?" and then the answer is twenty steps long.
Yeah, I understand the idea behind the displayed numbers... But it's not very clear.
I wonder how you fix it though - like the behind the scenes math produces a very balanced game, but at cost of not being easily explained
I don't think the math is all that balanced. It seems like fewer and fewer people bother with elemental damage at all with each game. What I would do just as a start is, like...
Get rid of all the meaningless multipliers on the stat screen. Forget the weapon factor, stop putting an extra 0 on elemental damage for no reason.
Put elemental multipliers on monster parts on a similar scale as physical multipliers. Why do physical multipliers mostly range from 5-90 while elemental multipliers range from 0-40? The average monster part has a physical multiplier of about triple the multiplier of its weakest element for no reason. Raise the multipliers and lower the weapon values.
Give elemental damage the same sharpness multiplier as physical damage. Let elemental damage benefit from affinity and tenderizer and whatever other stray percentage buffs there are.
Don't just truncate damage values. Maybe have a hit of 2.4 fire damage deal 3 damage 40% of the time and 2 damage 60% of the time if you want to stick with integers, I don't know. Elemental damage is so tiny that truncation or rounding is often going to introduce like a 40% margin of error by itself, it's dumb.
There, now all you need to do is ballpark your average motion value for your personal playstyle and there you go, you can estimate the value of your element stat against most susceptible monsters in one step.
Yeah, there's a reason only a handful of weapons care about element, and it's because all the multipliers on element suck. Kirin weapons are terrible because even their massive element isn't enough element.
I absolutely agree about elemental stuff. It should be a reward that you stomp a monster for being prepared appropriately. Also they could really play up the graphics for elemental weapons too. I don't think there's really even a visual difference currently. And if there is I've never noticed because the effect is too small or the weapons aren't worth it over raw so I don't use them enough.
Augments were nice, but when I'd see that I needed 3 of the last tier of Streamstones and I had a high chance of getting a total of 0 after farming for it for more than 30 minutes, I would completely drop the idea and do something else. The RNG was too punishing and made me play less instead.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
I just used whatever had the highest raw, affinity, and sharpness.
I think I ended on the Raging Brachy lance, because I didn't want to do siege bosses (To this day I haven't) and I only killed Fatalis once before retiring the game.
The game really didn't promote build diversity either by also requiring said streamstones to fully upgrade your armor. Want to upgrade it? Fight these same monsters again until they drop the streamstone!
Get rid of all the meaningless multipliers on the stat screen.
They got rid of the raw multipliers in Rise, at least. I know they seem to oscillate between the two options every game, but for Rise they're going with true raw.
3DS Friend Code: 4828-4410-2451
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
Yeah, its annoying how much every weapon list is basically "Here's the highest raw, and here's the highest raw without going negative affinity. If you want to be spicy, this one has slightly less raw, but look at all that sharpness." It just moves the whole thing farther and farther away from what truly sold me on the game, the idea that I need to kill 10 Jura's to make a water sword to kill 10 rathalos to make a fire sword to kill etc.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
I thought it was just store phials then make boomy-boomy axe swings!
It was that, originally. In every new game they add another janky charging mechanic to it. In 6th gen you'll be able to charge vials into your armour to reduce knockback.
1.) For severing tails, does the damage required have to be all sever, or is it X total damage with Y (including the last blow) being sever? Think I have a LBG build I can enjoy, but Slash shot would be useless in MR solo if I'm expected to do *all* tail damage with it to sever, and I'd like to know when I'd have to bring something bladed.
2.) Dragon Kinsect for Elderseal, good idea yes/no?
1.) For severing tails, does the damage required have to be all sever, or is it X total damage with Y (including the last blow) being sever? Think I have a LBG build I can enjoy, but Slash shot would be useless in MR solo if I'm expected to do *all* tail damage with it to sever, and I'd like to know when I'd have to bring something bladed.
2.) Dragon Kinsect for Elderseal, good idea yes/no?
1) I believe it's closer to damage has to be sever for it to count towards the severing threshold, but not 100%
2) ehhhh elderseal is one of those mechanics that barely does anything when working fully. it's not worthless but I wouldn't make that the primary reason to use that kinsect
1.) For severing tails, does the damage required have to be all sever, or is it X total damage with Y (including the last blow) being sever? Think I have a LBG build I can enjoy, but Slash shot would be useless in MR solo if I'm expected to do *all* tail damage with it to sever, and I'd like to know when I'd have to bring something bladed.
2.) Dragon Kinsect for Elderseal, good idea yes/no?
only cutting damage contributes to "sever" threshold
I thought it was just store phials then make boomy-boomy axe swings!
It was that, originally. In every new game they add another janky charging mechanic to it. In 6th gen you'll be able to charge vials into your armour to reduce knockback.
1. SnS until the vials glow red
2. Dump charge into vials
3. Change into big swingy axe
4. Dump vials into axe/shield
5. Repeat 1 through 3
6. Convert big swingy axe into big swingy spinny axe (savage axe mode)
Now, all your axe attacks add power vial explosions and you're absolutely tearing your monster apart.
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
i would go one step further and say that elderseal is definitely worthless
Ehh I've found it depends on the Elder Dragon.
Like Teostra? just put on some Fire Resist gear and watch for when you need to Superman dive and you're fine. But Kushala Daora? Fail to get it to flinch often enough w/o Elderseal and you'll need a stack of Flashbugs to go with the Flash pods if you want to consistently get past the tip of its nose.
Found that out the same hunt that I found out HR Elder Dragons also build up resistance to Flash pods too.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
i would go one step further and say that elderseal is definitely worthless
Ehh I've found it depends on the Elder Dragon.
Like Teostra? just put on some Fire Resist gear and watch for when you need to Superman dive and you're fine. But Kushala Daora? Fail to get it to flinch often enough w/o Elderseal and you'll need a stack of Flashbugs to go with the Flash pods if you want to consistently get past the tip of its nose.
Found that out the same hunt that I found out HR Elder Dragons also build up resistance to Flash pods too.
i would go one step further and say that elderseal is definitely worthless
Ehh I've found it depends on the Elder Dragon.
Like Teostra? just put on some Fire Resist gear and watch for when you need to Superman dive and you're fine. But Kushala Daora? Fail to get it to flinch often enough w/o Elderseal and you'll need a stack of Flashbugs to go with the Flash pods if you want to consistently get past the tip of its nose.
Found that out the same hunt that I found out HR Elder Dragons also build up resistance to Flash pods too.
The solution is to never fight Kushala Daora.
Needed a 3rd Tempered Elder Dragon to get the quest for the Rocksteady Mantle and it was the one I had an investigation for.
...also, looking it up it seems like the Tempered status is why it eventually became immune to flash pods. So I should have less tear-inducing frustration if I ever need a Daora gem for something.
Posts
Absolute noobuses
But my frame of reference is MHTri on Wii being the only other one I played beforehand.
Wait, customizable movesets in rise?
---
Also world was built to make the game accessible to everyone, rather than have an obtuse brick wall at it's front. I've been playing since Tri and it succeeded admirably. (Literally the only pre-tri game i havent touched is GenU). The multi-platform nature helped, but the game blew up as big as it finally did because of the amount of cruft that was removed and quality of life that was added.
And i'm still going to argue to my dying breath that the Tackle addition to greatsword is one of the best pieces of game design i've ever seen. So simple! So elegant! So effective on altering and improving the style of the weapon! So great feeling to use!
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
Switch: 0293 6817 9891
They haven't officially announced it yet, but they've all-but-confirmed that at least some weapons will have different options. The blast-dash-like move for gunlance that's in the trailers, but isn't in the demo and isn't a wirebug move. A more classic-style hunting horn option where you do recitals to play songs. Dataminers might have found a few more.
Oh man I'd kill for a version of duals without Demon Dance. Aerial style in Gen/U didn't have it (X+A mapped to the spin-dash instead) and I've gotten used to the mobility.
MHW/IB is probably going to be in a top whatever of my all-time favorites, so I'm by no means ragging on it when I say it was for noobuses.
It was made as a complete overhaul to the series with modern mechanics and huge QoL improvements, which mean sacrificing some old elements (and from what I saw of the old skill system, good fucking riddance to some of it). As a result, it was more attractive to first-timers, but rose the profile of the series massively in the Western markets.
I'm very much looking forward to Rise, which seems to be a bit deeper mechanically (especially in combat) than MHW.
Plus World sold something like 4x the next best-selling installment (not counting Iceborne), most of it in the West. Accessibility is a very good reason why. They'd be throwing money away to ditch that.
If Rise can be a sort of middle ground that appeals to the olds and the noobs like me then that would be pretty great.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
This is the promise of Rise for me.
Thinking about it now that decos are craftable again my main issues with the skill system as it was in world might be solved.
I just felt like build variety was too hard to achieve and this fixes it. I will always miss my crazy armor skill spreadsheets but I understand why they had to go!
I just felt like world made an over correction.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
I like some complexity in my games. I also don't mind having RNG for a few items. What I do mind is having RNG for like 10-20 individual pieces of build-defining skill gems in a game where drops are 95% monster bits and other assorted random shit.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
Switch: 0293 6817 9891
On decos it was just not fun.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
Part of what made me keep trying to get into MH was the loop of 'want fire sword? kill fire monster and make it after X kills'. In World I am currently trying to upgrade a charm to level 3 that requires a rare drop gem or I could go slot in a deco to cover that but that is also RNG. I could get one or both on my next kill or it could take more than 100. That's discouraging.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
Yeah the crazy crafting mat requirements for high level charms PLUS the completely random deco drops (Not to mention a solid 30% of your decos were ones with 2 random effects) PLUS requiring drops for the higher tier weapons PLUS requiring drops for the augments made it a bit too RNG heavy.
Again, it wouldn't be so bad if the drops weren't so infrequent. A game like Diablo 2 can get away with it because you'll likely be upgrading other parts of your build while "waiting" for the big drop, plus leveling and skill progression will continue to make your character stronger. MH doesn't have progression outside of gear.
Yeah, the RNG on drops is there but world mostly mitigated it with investigations in that the odds are good enough? And then the tickets for the gems help. I mean, unless you need Rathian Spikes, in which case you're screwed. But other than that.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
Switch: 0293 6817 9891
Yeah, I understand the idea behind the displayed numbers... But it's not very clear.
I wonder how you fix it though - like the behind the scenes math produces a very balanced game, but at cost of not being easily explained
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
Switch: 0293 6817 9891
Charm farming was mildly enjoyable when it was drop in, hit 5 mining nodes or w/e, go home. Having a nice, chill loop that lets you unlock new and interesting options for armor sets was nice. Even if you didn't get the exact piece you wanted, there was always the chance that you would find something that would unlock a new way to use a different armor set.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Get rid of all the meaningless multipliers on the stat screen. Forget the weapon factor, stop putting an extra 0 on elemental damage for no reason.
Put elemental multipliers on monster parts on a similar scale as physical multipliers. Why do physical multipliers mostly range from 5-90 while elemental multipliers range from 0-40? The average monster part has a physical multiplier of about triple the multiplier of its weakest element for no reason. Raise the multipliers and lower the weapon values.
Give elemental damage the same sharpness multiplier as physical damage. Let elemental damage benefit from affinity and tenderizer and whatever other stray percentage buffs there are.
Don't just truncate damage values. Maybe have a hit of 2.4 fire damage deal 3 damage 40% of the time and 2 damage 60% of the time if you want to stick with integers, I don't know. Elemental damage is so tiny that truncation or rounding is often going to introduce like a 40% margin of error by itself, it's dumb.
There, now all you need to do is ballpark your average motion value for your personal playstyle and there you go, you can estimate the value of your element stat against most susceptible monsters in one step.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
I think I ended on the Raging Brachy lance, because I didn't want to do siege bosses (To this day I haven't) and I only killed Fatalis once before retiring the game.
They got rid of the raw multipliers in Rise, at least. I know they seem to oscillate between the two options every game, but for Rise they're going with true raw.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
I thought it was just store phials then make boomy-boomy axe swings!
/swoon
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
It was that, originally. In every new game they add another janky charging mechanic to it. In 6th gen you'll be able to charge vials into your armour to reduce knockback.
1.) For severing tails, does the damage required have to be all sever, or is it X total damage with Y (including the last blow) being sever? Think I have a LBG build I can enjoy, but Slash shot would be useless in MR solo if I'm expected to do *all* tail damage with it to sever, and I'd like to know when I'd have to bring something bladed.
2.) Dragon Kinsect for Elderseal, good idea yes/no?
1) I believe it's closer to damage has to be sever for it to count towards the severing threshold, but not 100%
2) ehhhh elderseal is one of those mechanics that barely does anything when working fully. it's not worthless but I wouldn't make that the primary reason to use that kinsect
only cutting damage contributes to "sever" threshold
Stop! I can only get so hard.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
I refer you back to my post a couple days ago:
Ehh I've found it depends on the Elder Dragon.
Like Teostra? just put on some Fire Resist gear and watch for when you need to Superman dive and you're fine. But Kushala Daora? Fail to get it to flinch often enough w/o Elderseal and you'll need a stack of Flashbugs to go with the Flash pods if you want to consistently get past the tip of its nose.
Found that out the same hunt that I found out HR Elder Dragons also build up resistance to Flash pods too.
The solution is to never fight Kushala Daora.
Needed a 3rd Tempered Elder Dragon to get the quest for the Rocksteady Mantle and it was the one I had an investigation for.
...also, looking it up it seems like the Tempered status is why it eventually became immune to flash pods. So I should have less tear-inducing frustration if I ever need a Daora gem for something.
edit: and I get why they did it this way, but having flash just straight up no work later on is huge lameness.